Something that bugs me about the Dawn of the Dead remake...

[UndeadChicken]

Forgive me if I'm missing something because it's been a few years since I last watched the remake of Dawn of the Dead, but why exacly did the characters decide to leave the mall? I mean they were very secure there and had everything they needed to survive for many years, so I don't understand why they would choose to give all that up and leave for some island that they just assumed had no zombies (and amusingly they were wrong). I mean at least in the original film the characters didn't choose to leave untill they were forced to when the zombies broke in and found their secret hiding spot.

I guess it was basically just an excuse to get the characters out of the mall so we could see more zombie-fighting action and so that the expendable characters nobody cared about could all be killed off. :confused:

[MoonSylver]

I guess it was basically just an excuse to get the characters out of the mall so we could see more zombie-fighting action and so that the expendable characters nobody cared about could all be killed off. :confused:

You just answered your own question. :lol:

[UndeadChicken]

You just answered your own question. :lol:

Well yeah... but I was hoping maybe someone had a better answer so that I might like the movie a little bit more. :P

[MoonSylver]

Well yeah... but I was hoping maybe someone had a better answer so that I might like the movie a little bit more. :P

The awswer, per the movie, is after the Gunfight at the OK Corral in which Gansta Man, Russian Chick & Old Lady all bite it (pretty much none of the caracatures, er, I mean CHARACTERS, in this move are memorable enough that their names stuck with me & I can't be arsed to look them up), Marcellus Wallace says "I ain't waiting to die in here". (Yeah, 'cause gettin' your *BLEEP* bit off by zombies is so much better...) :rolleyes:

That's it. :barf:

I've heard defenders of '04 state the reason as the fact that the power was gone & the zeds were gonna breach the mall eventually. Fair enough. But never explicitly stated as the reason to leave by any of the characters.

Despite the above snark, I like '04 well enough as a action flick w/ "zombies", but the reason to leave the mall is handled pretty ham-fisted, &really does smack of little more than plot contrivance.

[JDFP]

Find me a mall in the U.S. that has "food stocked for years" -- I doubt you could. Most food in most malls will spoil in a matter of weeks, most of the food in a matter of days if the power is gone. I don't recall any spam/K-ration/"Civil Defense" boxes of food lying around as was the case in the original "Dawn". Of course, that poses the question: What the hell were Civil Defense boxes of food doing stored in the upstairs of a shopping mall in P.A. exactly in the original "Dawn"? Anyone ever figure that one out? You'd think someone in mall security/management in the original "Dawn" would have thought to make use of all the Civil Defense boxes of food in the original "Dawn", but I digress....

Anyway, I think the "food for years" premise is highly faulty. They may have had food, if properly rationed, for a few months. I take issue in the film with super-human sprinting raptor-zombies who can give vocally impossible screeches, but eh, such is such. I guess regular ol' shambling zombies just aren't scary anymore for "mainstream Generation Y kids" (sigh).

j.p.

[DEAD BEAT]

Forgive me if I'm missing something because it's been a few years since I last watched the remake of Dawn of the Dead, but why exacly did the characters decide to leave the mall? I mean they were very secure there and had everything they needed to survive for many years, so I don't understand why they would choose to give all that up and leave for some island that they just assumed had no zombies (and amusingly they were wrong). I mean at least in the original film the characters didn't choose to leave untill they were forced to when the zombies broke in and found their secret hiding spot.

I guess it was basically just an excuse to get the characters out of the mall so we could see more zombie-fighting action and so that the expendable characters nobody cared about could all be killed off. :confused:

well they were outta the lemon stuff Steve was puttin' in his booze....hello! lol

[MoonSylver]

Find me a mall in the U.S. that has "food stocked for years" -- I doubt you could. Most food in most malls will spoil in a matter of weeks, most of the food in a matter of days if the power is gone. I don't recall any spam/K-ration/"Civil Defense" boxes of food lying around as was the case in the original "Dawn".

Good point. And I think I'd have accepted it without reservation if anyone in the movie had actually bothered to state that as their reason as such. ;)

Truth is, you, I, & many other members of HPOTD can probably come up with a number of valid reasons that they could or should decide to leave the mall. But the fact that the writers never bothered to give them any reason just smacked of sloppy writing to me at the time & still does.



Of course, that poses the question: What the hell were Civil Defense boxes of food doing stored in the upstairs of a shopping mall in P.A. exactly in the original "Dawn"? Anyone ever figure that one out? You'd think someone in mall security/management in the original "Dawn" would have thought to make use of all the Civil Defense boxes of food in the original "Dawn", but I digress....

The implication I always got was that they were getting ready to use the mall as a rescue station & it either got abandoned or overrun.

[bassman]

As mentioned before, there's really no reason other than to advance the plot. And the decision is rushed after they decide to save the bimbo going after her dog. WTF? Let that stupid ginger skank die.:p :lol:

As for the food, wouldn't there have been some sort of store with seeds and gardening supplies? They could have easily started a garden up on the roof.

As with any zombie flick, we always over think it. :p

[Thorn]

Perhaps they were getting claustrophobic, or stir crazy. Perhaps the wailing and pounding of the undead hordes began to play on their mind. Perhaps the recent deaths of their fellow survivors made them come to understand it was just a matter of time before they died and the thought that there is somewhere better "out there" is something that is always in the minds of those who are prisoner of their own doing or otherwise.

The grass is always greener, so thinking we stay here we die, or we roll the dice and take our chances on getting to someplace better.

Really it is not as much of a stretch as people are making it, even if it is not the decision you think you would make now or maybe even in reality would make given the fact you were actually living in their shoes. I have no trouble feeling it is a realistic enough course of action.

And man, sometimes you just want to go out on your own terms. The motivation for each individual were likely different, the collective decision was made to make a play for something and they made a play. It failed.

"Stuff" happens.

[UndeadChicken]

And the decision is rushed after they decide to save the bimbo going after her dog. WTF? Let that stupid ginger skank die.:p :lol:

:lol: Wow, I guess I'm not the only one who thought that part was stupid. I mean what sane person in their right mind would risk getting all of their friends killed just to save a pet? Especially considering that the zombies weren't even interested in eating the dog and the girl knew that!

Anyways even if all the stored food in the mall couldn't last for years realistically, I'm sure they could have found other means of obtaining food. Like one person said I'm sure the mall might have a gardening store so they could grow their own food, or rather than just leaving the mall completely they could have used those fancy vehicles to scavange for supplies to bring back to the mall. And if all else fails, they could eat the pooch. :p

[AcesandEights]

Dawn '04 is a fun film. I really do enjoy it, but it has enough plot holes and logical fallacies to choke a water buffalo. That said, it's not quite as absurd as sometimes people make it out to be.

You want a reason for the characters to leave the Mall? They realized it was an unsustainable situation, a dead end. That's not one of the decisions they made I had a problem with (how they went about executing it is a different story).

[DjfunkmasterG]

They could have handled the ending of DAWN 04 a lot better than they did... It was lazy writing. While I am a Dawn 04 defender I never defend the stupidity of the girl going after the dog, but, they had no choice but to go to the store and get her because they needed guns and ammo.

I liked the fact DAWN 04 made the gun store outside of the mall, making their survival just a bit harder... but that also was a bit far fetched because people who never handled guns were suddenly expert marksmen, but again whatever. I didn't go into DAWN 04 expecting a Romero vision... I expected what I got an end of the world zombie actioner.

[UndeadChicken]

Well ordinary people suddenly becoming expert shooters isn't that uncommon in zombie films. I'm not saying it makes any sense, I'm just saying it's one of the things you should expect any time you watch a movie about zombies.

One good thing about Dawn 04 that I liked was the scene after the credits where the survivors found a video recorder, and in The Blair Witch-style they ended up filming their own demise when they finally arrived on an island and were overwhelmed by zombies with no way to escape. Maybe that's where Romero got the idea for Diary of the Dead?

[AcesandEights]

I didn't go into DAWN 04 expecting a Romero vision... I expected what I got an end of the world zombie actioner.

And one hell of a beginning to a zombie film. I love that montage.

[DjfunkmasterG]

And one hell of a beginning to a zombie film. I love that montage.

Agreed, it was kick ass

[blind2d]

Yep, yep, yep... *sigh* What. The hell. Was she thinking? I guess she wasn't. Too bad, cute kid. Oh well, that's what happens, I guess. Sometimes the prettiest ones are also the dumbest. But yeah... I think... Nah, it's all good. Not the movie, just... everything. Peace, man...

[UndeadChicken]

I don't think that it's really so easy to believe that these charaters had a good reason for leaving the mall because they "felt like prisoners". A lot of us claim that we're experts on human nature and know how people would behave in an end-of-the-world type situation, but the truth is none of us really know what kind of stuff people do or think in a situation like that because we haven't experienced a true apocalypse or complete collapse of civilization yet.

Like I said none of us are experts, but I think that if some major disaster really did happen, like a zombie outbreak infecting the entire world, that if a group of people got together and found a shelter that was completely secured and had a lot of supplies to live off of for a long time, that they would be very content in staying there for as long as possible. It would be no different then your own house where you are sheltered from the elements and have food stored and a place to sleep. Do people normally decide to just completely abandon their houses and venture out into an uncertain world because they feel trapped in their homes? Sure people do get bored and go out to do things to entertain themselves like eat at a resturant or go see a movie, but the truth is most people, when they're not working to pay the bills, spend more time at home then they do other places.

So in my opinion you could think of the mall as the survivor's new home, where they have everything they need like food, weapons, clothing, a place to sleep, plumbing, and even the means to entertain themselves so that they don't go crazy from boredom. Like people said it was just really kind of unrealistic how they all decided to give all that up, I think real people in that situation would try their hardest to keep that shelter and only leave when they absolutely had to like the characters in the original Dawn of the Dead. Plus when you think about it, what sounds like a better shelter from zombies? A large sealed building filled with food supplies, power, and plumbing, or a deserted island out in the ocean where you can't find food unless you know how to hunt and know which plants are OK to eat, and where you don't have a solid shelter to protect you from things like hurricanes which can completely destroy islands, not to mention that you have other dangerous critters on the island such as poisonous spiders and snakes. Even if the island is completely free of zombies, those rotten flesh-eaters aren't the only dangers out there.

[shootemindehead]

As much as I dislike it, simply for it's existence (although I've seen it several times), there's a level of dread in Dawn '04 that's absent in a lot of "end of the world" type films, even from the original. The horizon filled with zombies growing larger each day really is a despairing sight and while the survivors had a neat little enclave to cling to, it's not that much of a stretch to believe that they felt that sooner or later they would be forced to leave.

The decision to go isn't that bizarre.

I've always felt that Dawn '04 would probably have benefited from (a.) sticking to the rules (shamblers etc) and (b.) more running time. It's just always felt like a much larger film that's been hacked to pieces mercilessly.



However, the dog thing WAS an utterly ridiculous plot device.

[MoonSylver]

Here's the thing that I think makes it seem more implausible on the surface than it is or would come to be eventually: the abruptness of the decision & the lack of any real dissension or reasoning.

"I ain't waitin' to die here!"
"OK, well, let's go then!"
(Audience) "Why?!?"
"..."

As I've said before, I'll chalk that up to poor film making more than anything else. All of you can say anything you want about GAR, but in "Dawn" in a few scenes he manages to convey the grind of days, the effect it has on his survivors, the mental & emotional state they're in by the time the bikers arrive.

IN "'04" I get no sense of that, nor that they're in any IMMEDIATE danger (thought the growing threat looming is present), or running out of supplies, or anything else.

The transition seems as abrupt as "Whelp, there was a big shoot-out...oktimetogo!!!!" :mad:

[bassman]

IN "'04" I get no sense of that, nor that they're in any IMMEDIATE danger (thought the growing threat looming is present), or running out of supplies, or anything else.

The transition seems as abrupt as "Whelp, there was a big shoot-out...oktimetogo!!!!" :mad:

There's also no sense of danger because you don't care about the characters. How could you? They're basically cut from any MTV Real World series and popped into the movie. There was almost a connection to "lost my son" guy but that only lasted for a few seconds, making it mean absolutely nothing when he gets bit. I actually wanted these characters to die.


In the original you care what happens to Roger, Peter, and Fran. Hell....Romero even turned Stephen into a likable character before giving him the axe.

[Thorn]

Yep, yep, yep... *sigh* What. The hell. Was she thinking? I guess she wasn't. Too bad, cute kid. Oh well, that's what happens, I guess. Sometimes the prettiest ones are also the dumbest. But yeah... I think... Nah, it's all good. Not the movie, just... everything. Peace, man...

You can go stir crazy in your own home when you are there by choice. That having been said some who are locked in actually adjust quite well to it in prison, and actually come to know it as home.

Military men in Vietnam had a place they came to call home and still developed mental issues, same with Gulf War veterans, and anyone who has ever been in a combat zone. It is not a stretch to apply the same concept to a zombie siege. It is a combat zone, you are locked in unable to move freely under constant threat of death, running out of food, water, gas, or supplies. You just watched friends die. If you are saying this would not negatively impact some people I am sorry you are deluding yourself.

I do not know how I would act or you, but I do know many would crack under these instances and I just need to look at PTSD to know this to be true.

I do not know how I would act, no one does I touched on that in my own post but in reality we do know that being locked in against your will under the constant fear of death does in fact play on the human mind. As for being completely safe in the mall, they saw just how not true that was with the recent events of having lost people. Anything could happen, and you either sit and wait or you take action some people do in fact just need to go.

[JDFP]

I do not know how I would act or you, but I do know many would crack under these instances and I just need to look at PTSD to know this to be true.

I do not know how I would act, no one does I touched on that in my own post but in reality we do know that being locked in against your will under the constant fear of death does in fact play on the human mind. As for being completely safe in the mall, they saw just how not true that was with the recent events of having lost people. Anything could happen, and you either sit and wait or you take action some people do in fact just need to go.

I do know the first thought I would have would be: "How quickly can I get drunk?"

That's a good start to dealing with an apocalypse, me thinks.

j.p.

[blind2d]

Hm... Yes, you're right. Good points, all.

I'm reminded of the blood-sucking lawyer from Jurassic Park. "When you gotta go, you gotta go."

Maybe it's just because I'm not a dog person, I don't know...

[DjfunkmasterG]

There's also no sense of danger because you don't care about the characters. How could you? They're basically cut from any MTV Real World series and popped into the movie. There was almost a connection to "lost my son" guy but that only lasted for a few seconds, making it mean absolutely nothing when he gets bit. I actually wanted these characters to die.


In the original you care what happens to Roger, Peter, and Fran. Hell....Romero even turned Stephen into a likable character before giving him the axe.

I agree with you about Michael (Jake Webber), in the Unrated cut his character development goes a little deeper than the original theatrical cut, but it is all forgotten quickly.

If they could have toned it down to just Ving, Jake, Sarah and Michael (CJ security guard) I think it woul dhave been a better movie, but I still enjoy it a lot.

Honestly they could have done without the Mall aspect and had they set it at a Rescue shelter I think it would have played better... I would have like to have seen more of the chaos at the Military base and at the St Verbina church shelter

[Thorn]

I watched this again last night (every night since Tuesday actually) and more than the improperly motivated through dialogue decisions to flee bothers me. That really is believable to me. They just had a major altercation, people died, power was shutting off, items were running out. They had a major confrontation in the parking level and at the time there were still two factions within the mall three if you count preggers and poppa pistol.

To use the mall is their house analogy. How cozy is your house if you have people trying to kill you in your basement, banging on the walls and windows outside trying to get in to react you, death and decay all around, conflict and infighting inside your house, and a growing sense that things are getting worse?

It isn't.

My BIGGEST complaint REALLY about the movie is the legless zombie doing gymnastics on the pipe. How would a legless zombie get up on a pipe? Why would he wait that way to "gotcha" in a shock moment, how is it no one heard or saw him coming, and then the whole arm strength thing... coupled with the fact his hands had to be decaying and slippery.

That scene bothers more than most others.

[MoonSylver]

My BIGGEST complaint REALLY about the movie is the legless zombie doing gymnastics on the pipe. How would a legless zombie get up on a pipe? Why would he wait that way to "gotcha" in a shock moment, how is it no one heard or saw him coming, and then the whole arm strength thing... coupled with the fact his hands had to be decaying and slippery.

http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2011/05/19/pxq8lpz927.jpg

;) :lol:

[bassman]

The Dawn remake zombies all have ridiculous strength. I haven't seen the film in a while, but I always remember there's one zombie that jumps from the bottom of a staircase.....all the way to the top....and lands on the hand rail.:|

I don't know any living people that can accomplish that without wires and cgi....

[MoonSylver]

The Dawn remake zombies all have ridiculous strength. I haven't seen the film in a while, but I always remember there's one zombie that jumps from the bottom of a staircase.....all the way to the top....and lands on the hand rail.:|

I don't know any living people that can accomplish that without wires and cgi....

Except them damn Parkour guys...they be jumpin' around on EVERYTHING!!! :lol:

jJubOZLpp4A

(but somehow I don't think some random zombie is one of them... ;) )

[Trin]

Here's my take... I agree with Moon that the crux of the problem is lazy writing leading to plot contrivance. Someone decided that they couldn't be bothered with a 2 hour writing session and 2 minutes of screen time to make leaving the mall a decision the audience would buy. Shame on them.

But the decision to leave the mall *could* easily be justified. I don't think the mall was a long-term solution. Malls in today's era don't stock food supplies like they did in the 60's and 70's, when civil defense was on high alert.

So assuming you're in a mall and you have a limited supply of food and water what do you do? Wait for the food/water to run out? That would mean that your first stop once you leave the mall is to look for food! No, I think your better bet is to leave as soon as possible in the best circumstances possible so you can be choosy about what risks you take during the trip. Ideally you could live on the busses for a week or more if you had to. Their plan was pretty sound... take the time to make the busses defensible and stock them with food/water/guns/ammo/fuel... then head for the boat. It was dog chick who made it haphazard and frenetic.

In my mind there's another BIG motivating factor to leave sooner rather than later. They were planning to head for a boat. Boats don't just sit on the water intact and pristine for weeks at a time. Weather and lack of maintenance can quickly lead to a boat being unusable. Any survival plan that requires you hop a boat puts you on a short timer.

So I guess my defendment of Dawn '04 is this... in the same situation I'd make the decision to leave. And if you're going to leave, better to leave sooner than later.

[Philly_SWAT]

Find me a mall in the U.S. that has "food stocked for years" -- I doubt you could. Most food in most malls will spoil in a matter of weeks, most of the food in a matter of days if the power is gone.
Most food stores in malls have freezers, therefore one of my first tasks in a "conquer the mall" zombie endevour would be to put all the food in the freezers. In fact, I would make that a priority, right after killing all the zeds in the mall. If I had to, I would move all the food out of however many freezers I may need to store the zeds to other freezers. Wouldnt have to be pretty, just frozen. I would shove all that shit in there. So it may not last for "years", but could last for quite a long time. With modern day food courts, there is probably a lot more food there then you may think. Think of it like this...20 total food places in the mall. Mall opened 12 hours. Each store serves 10 meals an hour (probably a low estimate). 20 X 12 X 10 = 2,400 meals in one day. Certainly food places dont get truck deliveries EVERY DAY, so there is enough in each place for AT LEAST a few days. Lets assume 3 days. That would be 2,400 X 3 = 7,200 meals. So to be greedy, lets say we intend to eat 3 meals a day, just as we did pre-outbreak. And that there are 4 survivors. That would be 12 meals a day. 7,200 / 12 = 600 days. Which is almost 2 years. If you decided to be more reasonable and only eat two meals a day, that would be 900 days. And I think I underestimated a lot here. And if there was only 2 surviors at two meals a day, that is 1800 days, or almost 5 years.


I don't recall any spam/K-ration/"Civil Defense" boxes of food lying around as was the case in the original "Dawn". Of course, that poses the question: What the hell were Civil Defense boxes of food doing stored in the upstairs of a shopping mall in P.A. exactly in the original "Dawn"?
I am pretty sure that when GAR was touring the mall originally, there actually was civil defense boxes in the actual mall, which is partly how he got the idea to have survivors hold up in a mall.

[bassman]

I've always questioned why they stashed the bodies in the freezer. It seems like such a waste of a necessary utility. There had to have been better ways to deal with the bodies. It would be more work, but I would have maybe considered throwing them off the roof. Not keep them next to my ice cream....



I am pretty sure that when GAR was touring the mall originally, there actually was civil defense boxes in the actual mall, which is partly how he got the idea to have survivors hold up in a mall.

You would probably know more about it than I would, but I believe he does mention this on the documentary. When they were giving him the tour they showed him how people could survive in the mall. When I was doing some research into getting a few of those boxes to go in my man cave, I believe I actually ran across the CD website and anyone can order them. So it's certainly possible that the mall owner could have stocked up the storage room.

[Thorn]

I've always questioned why they stashed the bodies in the freezer. It seems like such a waste of a necessary utility. There had to have been better ways to deal with the bodies. It would be more work, but I would have maybe considered throwing them off the roof. Not keep them next to my ice cream....




You would probably know more about it than I would, but I believe he does mention this on the documentary. When they were giving him the tour they showed him how people could survive in the mall. When I was doing some research into getting a few of those boxes to go in my man cave, I believe I actually ran across the CD website and anyone can order them. So it's certainly possible that the mall owner could have stocked up the storage room.

Very much agree, and I like Philly's math and if it was an optimal time as far as deliveries and such and food levels a and none of this was looted before hand it does say that the food would hold out for longer than I had initially thought anyway.

In this case of course there were other issues, power going out, and the zombies in the parking garage, and recent deaths. I also have to assume Andy mentioned shortage of food before off camera.

[sandrock74]

Plus when you think about it, what sounds like a better shelter from zombies? A large sealed building filled with food supplies, power, and plumbing, or a deserted island out in the ocean where you can't find food unless you know how to hunt and know which plants are OK to eat, and where you don't have a solid shelter to protect you from things like hurricanes which can completely destroy islands, not to mention that you have other dangerous critters on the island such as poisonous spiders and snakes. Even if the island is completely free of zombies, those rotten flesh-eaters aren't the only dangers out there.

Well, to be fair, the Great Lakes is not the ocean. Nor do we have hurricanes here. There was a really bad tornado that went thru the Lakes back in '97...but that was mostly along the shore. Also, poisonous spiders and snakes aren't a local thing in this region to contend with. You would have to be mindful of poison ivy thou, as that pops up here and there.

If you hole up on an island in the Great Lakes (and yes, there are a few), you'd actually be alright...until winter hit. The water freezes over and the zombies could easily walk on over to your island. Yikes!

Of course, all this is moot, as there are no islands in the Great Lakes region that they showed in the movie. The islands are centered around Michigan, not Illinois or Wisconson. Still, all in all, not a bad place to hole up spring thru fall.

[Rancid Carcass]

I also have to assume Andy mentioned shortage of food before off camera.

Don't you just hate it when characters have lengthy discussions about important plot points off camera? :lol:

[JDFP]

Don't you just hate it when characters have lengthy discussions about important plot points off camera? :lol:

I've always been amused to no end at the bit of dialogue in "Day" where Rhodes yells after Steel: "Get out of there, Steel! We've got more important shit to do!" -- my thought has always been: "What, exactly?". I guess getting drunk(er) and fighting one another and playing cards counted as 'more important shit to do'. Maybe they had a movie night and Rhodes was afraid of Steel not coming because he was the only one who knew how to work the projector?

EDIT: Ohhh!! I just got a fourth star! Oh boy! Zombie Flesh Eater here I come!

j.p.

[MoonSylver]

I've always been amused to no end at the bit of dialogue in "Day" where Rhodes yells after Steel: "Get out of there, Steel! We've got more important shit to do!" -- my thought has always been: "What, exactly?"

Tune up the golf cart in case they needed to make a quick getaway later. ;) :lol:

[sandrock74]

Tune up the golf cart in case they needed to make a quick getaway later. ;) :lol:

Well, more like the pace of a leisurely stroll kinda getaway (to be fair).

[Wyldwraith]

Hmm things that bother me about Dawn '04,
1***) When retreating back to the Mall via the sewer/underground while being pursued by zombies, the survivors didn't even TRY to secure either of the two doors that lock they passed through, and that during the fiasco in the parking garage they cared enough about to leave 2 people to watch one of those doors. Strictly a case of making characters do something stupid and counter-intuitive in order to increase the pressure on the characters flight from the Mall.

2) The zombie that gets Andy: It was like that damned zombie was hovering at that "doggie door" just waiting to spring forward and grab that lip of the door before Andy could close it up again. Also, why in God's name didn't Andy have a GUN IN HIS HAND while opening a door to the outside swarming with zombies for the first time in weeks? I could've bought the scene if he'd immediately shot the first zombie who tried to lunge in, but could neither push the body out or pull it in before other zombies pushed their way in. As it happened it just seemed like scriptwriter fiat. Defenders of Dawn '04 make so much of the psychological effect of having zombies beating on walls and doors every hour of every day....except when that psychological effect should cause a survivor to behave in a much less complacent/careless manner. Now, some might say "Andy was physically compromised by having been starved." To this I say: Let's remember that only a couple hours earlier the man had the strength to climb stairs and continually lift and lay down an eraseboard, and a day earlier was sharp enough to be sniping celebrity lookalike undead.

3) Legless zombie gymnastics. 'Nuff said.

4) Planning and actually firing up an unsecured CHAINSAW during an extremely bumpy ride. If running with scissors is a bad idea, this is the Nobel Retard Award of an idea.

5) The girl and her stupid dog. Again, 'Nuff said. Way to remove the far and away best/most durable vehicle the survivors had at their disposal from the survivors' control.

6) Why no more shotguns than Ving's after the raid for guns/ammo? In a world of runner-zombies, a shotgun is your best damned friend. A center-mass hit with a load of 00 Buckshot won't destroy a zombie, but I'd bet good movie it'd knock it on its ass, or flat on its back....or you can aim for the legs and take the easy mobility-removal shot. All the loading up on handguns really irritated me when the walls were full of FAR better weapons. To say nothing of the fact that when a shotgun runs dry you still have a bludgeon. When a 9mm runs dry you have a medium-sized paperweight.

7) Leaving the Mall for the stated reasons. ESPECIALLY for an unknown destination with a questionable amount of fuel to reach said destination, and NO CLUE what the status of said locale is. Maybe it's just me, but when I found a boat with a zombie head in the cooler, I'd have re-thought the whole island idea. Rather a red-flag, don'tcha think?

[Thorn]

Don't you just hate it when characters have lengthy discussions about important plot points off camera? :lol:

I do. But you know time restrictions and all that, if it ended up on the cutting room floor the director either assumed we would be able to infer and make the assumption or they thought it was not needed to show more than once... that we could make the leap of faith and assume if you are hungry and out of food you talk about it as you work your way down to your last buttered pickle. ;)

If you watch the lost tapes I think his discussion of food levels and such was much more of an ongoing theme than what was shown in the release of the film itself. Being able to accept that in this case especially is not all that hard given the lost tapes.

[Ragnarr]

The main characters in the DotD remake should have used a kite or a bunch of helium balloons from the mall's party store to float over a lonnnnng (300 yrds) string until it was above Andy's shop. Andy shoots the kite/balloons and grabs the falling string. The characters holding the other end of the string progressively add thicker and thicker string/cord until there's a strong enough line between the gun shop and the mall. Food and ammo/weapons could then be pulled in either direction. A remote control car from the mall hobby shop could also be used for the same concept with andy using a fishing pole to bring the car up to his balcony or window.

[rongravy]

The main characters in the DotD remake should have used a kite or a bunch of helium balloons from the mall's party store to float over a lonnnnng (300 yrds) string until it was above Andy's shop. Andy shoots the kite/balloons and grabs the falling string. The characters holding the other end of the string progressively add thicker and thicker string/cord until there's a strong enough line between the gun shop and the mall. Food and ammo/weapons could then be pulled in either direction. A remote control car from the mall hobby shop could also be used for the same concept with andy using a fishing pole to bring the car up to his balcony or window.
You're really gonna need the wind to be on your side there, MacGuyver...
I guess I'm going to have to watch DOTD04 again to see how far away Andy was.

When it first came out on dvd I watched it nightly. Now when I watch it, I always fall asleep by the hanging in the mall montage. Guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy...

[Ragnarr]

You're really gonna need the wind to be on your side there, MacGuyver...
I guess I'm going to have to watch DOTD04 again to see how far away Andy was.

When it first came out on dvd I watched it nightly. Now when I watch it, I always fall asleep by the hanging in the mall montage. Guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy...

Well yeah, it's a big 'IF' for the wind direction blowing towards Andy's gun shop. To get a perspective of distance from the mall to Andy's, I looked at the one scene when they first go onto the roof to paint the SOS and hear shots (it's a closer scene of Andy on his balcony and the building face). Then later, when the jazzy 'Get down with the sickness' music plays, Ken the cop holds up his dryboard sign and you the viewer are looking over his shoulder. The scene means to show you all the zombies in the parking lot, but I was looking in the distance remebering what Andy's shop looked like. That's where you can get an approximate perception of distance (I reckon it to be 200-300 meters). Think I'm gonna go to google satellite map. The mall were they filmed DotD remake was up in Canada somewhere (I'm gonna goole the locale). I should be able to see from above and get a better idead of distance. I know I'm taking this way too far, but I'm kinda whacky like that. Will post back with my findings. ~R~

Okay back from google map. Seems Thornhill Square Shopping Center in Thornhill, Ontario (where they filmed the mall scenes) was demolished shortly after the filming. The map shows the mall by that name, but it looks way small and there's some medical center attached or next to it. Cannot also see which building they used for Andy's Gunshop.

[Suicycho]

It was a no-win situation. Sooner or later the zombies would get in.

As for normal people suddenly becoming fighters? Its been awhile since i saw the movie but the only real fighter/warriors I saw were the cop , the gangbanger and the security guard who kinda struck me as a gun nut.

[Ragnarr]

Not so sure it'd be a no-win situation in DotD04. If you watch the dvd extras "the lost tapes' with Andy the gunshop owner, the short is prefaced with the tapes being found at a later date after the zombie outbreak has passed. I think the characters could have survived in the mall until the outbreak subsided. Elsewhere in this forum, posters suggested that there wouldn't be enough long-term food (food that doesn't spoil after a week or so). I disagree. Vending machines alone could keep the characters going for quite some time if it's rationed. Also, restaurants have tons of canned goods in storage (if you think all restaurant food is "fresh", I have a couple of bridges in NYC I can sell ya lol). Entrances into the mall could be baracaded not to mention actually walled off (the characters get their SOS paint from a store called 'Case Hardware'. I think they could have survived long-term. As far as fighting, unless they could get ammo from Andy's (and Andy too), it'd be best not to try.

-- -------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------


Well, to be fair, the Great Lakes is not the ocean. Nor do we have hurricanes here. There was a really bad tornado that went thru the Lakes back in '97...but that was mostly along the shore. Also, poisonous spiders and snakes aren't a local thing in this region to contend with. You would have to be mindful of poison ivy thou, as that pops up here and there.

If you hole up on an island in the Great Lakes (and yes, there are a few), you'd actually be alright...until winter hit. The water freezes over and the zombies could easily walk on over to your island. Yikes!

Well now that you mention it, would not the cold that freezes water also turn the zombies into zombicles? (frozen solid?) I mean, afterall they ARE just meat with shoes on.

[rongravy]

I mean, afterall they ARE just meat with shoes on.
:elol::elol::elol:
That was more than worth a giggle. Troo, too.
Well... except the ones that died without shoes on.

[bassman]

Elsewhere in this forum, posters suggested that there wouldn't be enough long-term food (food that doesn't spoil after a week or so). I disagree. Vending machines alone could keep the characters going for quite some time if it's rationed. Also, restaurants have tons of canned goods in storage (if you think all restaurant food is "fresh", I have a couple of bridges in NYC I can sell ya lol).

This is actually one thing I'll give the remake over the original. As mentioned earlier in the thread, at least in the remake they don't store their rotting corpses next to their frozen goods. :confused:


Entrances into the mall could be baracaded not to mention actually walled off (the characters get their SOS paint from a store called 'Case Hardware'.

No need. There's a quick deleted scene in which the mean black guy sees a zombie run into one of the glass doors and then states "shatter-proof glass asshole". Problem solved. No barricades needed. :rolleyes:


Well now that you mention it, would not the cold that freezes water also turn the zombies into zombicles? (frozen solid?) I mean, afterall they ARE just meat with shoes on.

That would certainly make sense. Muscles and joints do freeze at a certain temperature. The Walking Dead comics covered this in one of the earlier issues, actually.

[Ragnarr]

Another aspect of DotD04 that entered my warped mind; if the movie takes place over 30 days (according to Andy's 'The Lost Tapes'), instead of playing binocular chess or celebrity marksman, wouldn't it have been smarter to spend their time on the mall's roof thining out the herd (horde) of zombies by say tieing a 30 ft. rope to a cinderblock, calling over the crowd of undead to get them close to the wall base, then just letting gravity work its magic with the cinderblock and their heads? Could bump off (literally) like 4 zombies a minute, which would be 240 zombies per hour, and that's just 1 character passing his or her time doing this. Wouldn't be long before there wouldn't be many zombies at all and they could just have Andy walk over to the mall for lunch.

Now, if you have just 5 characters doing this for 8 hours a day, that would get rid of 9600 zombies per day, which at 30 days would be 288,000 zombies on their backs with a terminal headache.

[Rancid Carcass]

Now, if you have just 5 characters doing this for 8 hours a day, that would get rid of 9600 zombies per day, which at 30 days would be 288,000 zombies on their backs with a terminal headache.

Ah yes, but do you really think you cinderblock the piss out of them? All of them? As the old saying goes - "What about the millions more waiting to greet you outside?" I'm afraid they had them in a hopless situation, hopeless unless... unless you could make a jerry-rigged battle bus so they could reach the docks, jump in the old floaty-boat, find them an island someplace, and spend what time they had left gettin' juiced up, making home videos and chasing after that bloody dog again... ;)

[Ragnarr]

Ah yes, but do you really think you cinderblock the piss out of them? All of them? As the old saying goes - "What about the millions more waiting to greet you outside?" I'm afraid they had them in a hopless situation, hopeless unless... unless you could make a jerry-rigged battle bus so they could reach the docks, jump in the old floaty-boat, find them an island someplace, and spend what time they had left gettin' juiced up, making home videos and chasing after that bloody dog again... ;)

I see your point. I guess what I'm thinking here is (A) the zombie outbreak is of an overall finite duration (the preface of the "Lost Tapes" extra on the dvd states that Andy's tape was found after the zombie outbreak had passed), and (B) only the zombies that were surrounding the mall and also near Andy's gunshop needed be thinned out/eliminated either with the cinderblock-drop-to-the-head method or by something the equivalent (the noise of gunshots only draws more distant zombies to that location). Just thinking of ways the characters could have survived with minimal losses instead of their (durp) idea of making a run to zombie island.

[Trin]

On the lost tapes they gave a thoroughly implausible explanation for why thinning the herd wasn't an option. Andy mentions that for every one he kills two more show up. Whether that is due to the gunfire noise or not I don't recall. It may not be relevant for the cinderblock solution.

In the grand scheme of things given Andy's prowess with a gun and (assumedly) a half-decent ammo supply he should be able to stack bodies up quickly enough to create a short term thinning of the herd. I guarantee you I'd clean out as many as possible and make a run for the mall before I'd starve to death on a roof.

And speaking of getting to the mall... if they knew they could get within spitting distance of the gunshop through a sewer passage then why didn't they just propane the zombies right outside the gunshop and have him run for the sewer? Or drive the truck around to distract them as he made a run for it. Or... drive the truck over and have him drop guns and ammo on top of it, then jump down on it himself.

So many ways to save Andy....

[Ragnarr]

I like your idea of using the sewer to rescue Andy. The only problem I see with driving the truck over to the gunshop and having Andy (+guns & ammo) drop into the truck is the same problem I had when the second group of survivors reached the mall; the woman driver and the old dude with the bad ankle were able to climb out of the cab, then on top the truck and up a ladder to the mall roof (hmm). If they could climb the truck, so could our smelly dead friends. I think your idea of a propane tank kaboom followed by a dash to the manhole near andy's would be a good option. Any of these siege type movies (including "The Mist") gets me thinking of ways the characters could have done better, and maybe that's why I love watching them over and over.

[bassman]

Here's a strange, off-the-wall idea. Use the products available in the mall to make a potato gun. They're simple to make and if there was a hardware store, they should have everything they need. Maybe build some sort of foam cartridge to fill the tube for the pressure and protect the food, then shoot Andy over some food one hairspray shot at a time. :D :p

[Trin]

The only problem I see with driving the truck over to the gunshop and having Andy (+guns & ammo) drop into the truck is the same problem I had when the second group of survivors reached the mall; the woman driver and the old dude with the bad ankle were able to climb out of the cab, then on top the truck and up a ladder to the mall roof (hmm). If they could climb the truck, so could our smelly dead friends.
Hmmm... I see your point... but assumedly the zombies never did that, which implies they couldn't for some reason. I have no idea why. Dog-girl was able to get access to the truck okay. So we know they didn't move it away. Interesting point.

But simply sticking to what we know, the truck was available and assumedly people could get into the mall from the truck without letting the zombies in. I still think that's my first choice for Andy rescue.


Here's a strange, off-the-wall idea. Use the products available in the mall to make a potato gun. They're simple to make and if there was a hardware store, they should have everything they need. Maybe build some sort of foam cartridge to fill the tube for the pressure and protect the food, then shoot Andy over some food one hairspray shot at a time. :D :p
That idea is nuts. And I see no reason why it wouldn't have a decent chance of success. The distance isn't a problem. There would be sufficient things to use for propellant and projectiles. They would likely waste some shots getting the trajectory right, but who cares. The roof area had a brick backing that would stop the projectile from just bouncing off the roof. Andy would likely need to be downstairs just for safety sake.

The biggest risk I see is them blowing a hole in the front of his store (the barricaded windows) that gives the zombies a seam to pull open a bigger section and get inside. If they aimed off to the side until they got the distance right it wouldn't be *too* big a risk.

Great plan... you've got a spot reserved in my mall anytime the zombies come!

[bassman]

The roof area had a brick backing that would stop the projectile from just bouncing off the roof. Andy would likely need to be downstairs just for safety sake.

The biggest risk I see is them blowing a hole in the front of his store (the barricaded windows) that gives the zombies a seam to pull open a bigger section and get inside. If they aimed off to the side until they got the distance right it wouldn't be *too* big a risk.


As you say.....considering the distance and if the guys at the mall arched the trajectory of the potato gun just right, I don't think it would be a problem as far as causing damage. As for "catching" the food, Andy could rig up a few large blankets like a cushion to receive the food/capsule/whatever. Then just stand in the doorway that leads to the roof to avoid being hit.


Great plan... you've got a spot reserved in my mall anytime the zombies come!

:lol: Yeah....as crazy as it sounds, I think this may be the best way they could have gotten food to Andy. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it before, actually...

[rongravy]

I don't see how they, the Army(?) could've taken out the zombie threat without just destroying the whole city, as fast as those things were and the sheer number of them.
I thought of the propane thangie myself. The potato gun delivery system is something to think about though, lol. Anything to keep Andy in there, he'd definitely be an asset to the team. More than a PETA loving hottie. Guess they kept her to make sure they could repopulate the planet...
BOOM!!!
Here's your ham sammich, Andeh.

[Ragnarr]

lol good post rongravy. Didn't think about the potato gun before, but that'd be a hoot fer sher. But it's not so much taking out the entire zombie threat by force; like Dr. Frankenstein said in DayotD, there aren't enough bullets (paraphrasing). It's more of the characters in the mall dealing better with what was in front of them or between Andy's and the mall, and of course feeding Andy while stocking up on guns & ammo. The PETA chick was only in the movie to be annoying I think. I was upset that they killed off the hot blonde ala chainsaw; just as upset when they bumped off the hot blonde in Walking Dead's first season (the younger of the blonde sisters). Why can't zombies only eat unattractive people? Dagnabbit!

[blind2d]

Most folks ARE unattractive when their guts are spilling out.
IMO. >.>

[Ragnarr]

Here's another aspect of Z-flicks for all you fans; How in the name of Jupiter's balls can zombies bite through clothing? Remember Roger in the original Dawn flick? He's climbing into Peter's truck and that zombie BITES THROUGH HIS PANTS LEG, taking a sizable chunk of flesh from his leg. Are we to believe that zombies with the strength of Peewee Herman have razor sharp teeth and jaw muscles as powerful as a pitbull?

I know if I was in a situation where there was a danger of getting bit by anything much less zombies, I'd be sure to wear some sort of make-shift armor or street hockey gear on my arms at the very least, and a full suit at the most.

[rongravy]

Why can't zombies only eat unattractive people? Dagnabbit!
Only Ashton Kutcher and Brad Pitt would be left. Where's the fun in that? Attractive douchenozzles are the ones I want to see get munched. Gives fugly guys like me a chance, lol.

Most folks ARE unattractive when their guts are spilling out.
IMO. >.>
Even Salma Hayek? I doubt it.


I know if I was in a situation where there was a danger of getting bit by anything much less zombies, I'd be sure to wear some sort of make-shift armor or street hockey gear on my arms at the very least, and a full suit at the most.
Thick black leather pants and jacket with chainmail gloves, they might pinch the shit out of you, but it wouldn't go through.

[Ragnarr]

Leather outfit would work. Chainmail halberk would be heavy but awesome certainly. Maybe I look too far into 'what the characters should have done' thing sometimes, but that's the way my warped brainage works. With 30 days to come up with solutions to their problems, the Dawn04 characters could have (mostly) survived I think.

[blind2d]

Yep, agreed.
And yeah, Hayek's ugly.
But anyway, potato gun is a great idea.
Too bad all the survivors in '04 were raving idiots.

[Ragnarr]

Forgive my ignorance in asking, but just how accurate are potato guns? I mean, the Dawn04 characters would certainly havefound the tech on hand from some of the stores in the mall to build potato guns, but unless the weapon was accurate enough to bean a ghoul in the head most of the time, it would just be another unproductive activity like the binocular chess games or the celebrity sniper. Also wondering how mobile an effective potato gun would be. Or would it be more of a mounted weapon system?

[bassman]

Forgive my ignorance in asking, but just how accurate are potato guns? I mean, the Dawn04 characters would certainly havefound the tech on hand from some of the stores in the mall to build potato guns, but unless the weapon was accurate enough to bean a ghoul in the head most of the time, it would just be another unproductive activity like the binocular chess games or the celebrity sniper. Also wondering how mobile an effective potato gun would be. Or would it be more of a mounted weapon system?

My potato gun idea wasn't for shooting zombies, but for shooting food across the way to Andy's rooftop.

[Ragnarr]

Ah yes, you did say that. If I'm right about the approximate distance to Andy's Gunshop being 200 - 300 yards, the potato gun capable of shooting food that far would probably kill Andy outright. Death by a high velocity ham sandwich!

Oh btw, just got done watching "La Horde". Great work on the frenchy zombies although some of them were ridiculously strong. Subtitles fizzled out like a third of the way into the flick, but I was still able to enjoy it. All the characters were like super fast martial artists which was like "oh geez c'mon now", but the literal HORDE of zombies they had for the film was amazing to see.

[chokeonthem]

I watched this again at the weekend. I really enjoyed it. Doesn't come near the charm and humour of the original but it is an entertaining one. I love the cameos too. How can you not love hearing Savini say "She's a twitcher!"

[Neil]

Find me a mall in the U.S. that has "food stocked for years" -- I doubt you could. Most food in most malls will spoil in a matter of weeks, most of the food in a matter of days if the power is gone.

Surely tinned and dried produce would last for years!?

[Ragnarr]

Surely tinned and dried produce would last for years!?

Absolutely a very long time for the characters in Dawn78 (4 people) and Dawn04 (11 people initially?). As I stated elsewhere in these forums, shopping malls generally have a least 1 restaurant, normally several. If any of them let you walk back into their kitchen and storage area, you find like a trillion or so boxes of canned and dehydrated foods. If you believe that all restaurants serve ONLY fresh foods, I own a couple of bridges in NYC that I can sell to you cheap. The characters in Dawn78 & Dawn04 could survive in any mall for a very long time if necessary.

[bd2999]

I liked the movie, probably would have more with a different name honestly. It was an action film with horror aspects though. I thought the reason they left was that whats her face went after the dog. Then after that everything sort of fell apart when a-hole character was not at the door and the zombies caught up and got into the mall too. I mean that is the actual reason they left but they would not have had the buses ready beforehand unless they were ready to leave otherwise (why multiple people were not at that door to make sure the one guy was not a tool and walked off I do not understand either because everyone knew he was not dependable).

As for initially why they had the idea. I just think, and this is just my opinion from the movie, I would guess that they were just getting itchy being there for to long and feeling shut in. It was the way for them to do something and try and take control. Giving them something to do other than sitting around. Although in the end it did not make a ton of sense anyway because although it has the illusion of giving a chance none of them had knowledge this island was safe or was even out there. The zombies might have gotten in eventually, and I could see them making a run for it if they were running out of food or something, but none of that was covered in the movie. Just seemed to be derived from human stupidity and wonderlust driving the most aggressive personality characters.

My main issue with this movie is that Anna is an extremly unlikable character IMO and that there are to many disposable characters that we just do not care about and they are pointless in that they just all die at once towards the end. We do not see them picked off one by one in cool ways, which at least gives them a function. Meh. To me the movie lost alot of steam about part way through honestly.

[Ragnarr]

I think that there would be plenty of things one could do at a mall to shake off any possible feelings of boredom or feeling closed in. The bookstore alone would have years of reading, having access to the mall's generator would allow for dvds & cds, the sports store has all kinds of excersise diversions, OR they could just keep busy reinforcing potential breeches into the mall. Not exactly sure how long their generator would have worked until they ran out of fuel.

I agree that the characters should have had a couple of people at that door waiting for the rescure party to return from Andy's gunshop, and I also agree that some (if not all) the characters were shallow and mostly inconsequential to the viewer.

[Wyldwraith]

If you want an irritating decision by the survivors in Dawn '04 how about this,
They make it onto the boat (with a horrendously high casualty-rate, but ok), and then set off for the island. On their way there, they encounter a drifting rowboat a good ways out with a still-active zombie head in the cooler onboard.

RED FLAG! Given the lethality of even their heavily armed/armored convoy, would anyone's first thought be "Oh, someone stuffed this zombie head in the cooler on the mainland and then rowed out into this huge lake thats taking a long, LONG time to traverse even with a motorboat"? The fact the boat had blood all inside it and no one on board lends credence to the notion that whoever it was in the rowboat had been bitten, turned, and then stupidly fell over the side into the lake.

Now, they reach the island around the time the engine conks out due to no more fuel. The island they have pinned all their hopes and lives to, after having just experienced still more casualties amongst their group. Don't you think SOMEONE would've said something along the lines of "Ya know, everywhere we went on the mainland had tons of zombies, and even on this huge lake we've found evidence of at least one boat that had an infected person in it at some point. Maybe we should perform even the most cursory of attempts to determine if this island is infested with zombies? By, I dunno, just yelling for 3-4 minutes before you bring the boat up to the dock? Judging by how fast and thick the horde of zombies that wiped them out was, and how fast they encountered them after getting off the boat (most of the survivors didn't make it off the dock even), SIXTY SECONDS observation after calling out loudly a few times would've undoubtedly revealed the island was just as heavily infested as the mainland.

That was a BIG lake. Down here in Florida at least, sizable lakes (lakes 1/20th the size of the one they were on) very, VERY often have MULTIPLE islands out toward the center.

The lack of ANY effort to determine if the island was the slightest bit safer than the apocalyptic journey they'd just been on, with so very many deaths of their comrades so fresh in their minds, really aggravates me. I enjoy the montage at the end of the flick for what it is, but my problem with this bit of decision-making isn't "movie logic nitpicking"...I simply can't imagine with those experiences, so much evidence of ongoing danger, and the rowboat raising at LEAST the POSSIBILITY it came FROM, instead of having been headed to the island as they were, that no one in that group thought it might be worthwhile to check out the island from a safe vantage first. HELL, they had at least one pair of binoculars thanks to shotgun-cop. Not like we're talkin about anything convoluted, such as say, re-purposing mall shuttles into armored apocalypse-transports.

Just my .02

[Publius]

Absolutely a very long time for the characters in Dawn78 (4 people) and Dawn04 (11 people initially?). As I stated elsewhere in these forums, shopping malls generally have a least 1 restaurant, normally several. If any of them let you walk back into their kitchen and storage area, you find like a trillion or so boxes of canned and dehydrated foods.

Aside from the restaurants, the mall nearest me has a Target with several aisles of canned and dry goods. One about half an hour away has a whole stinking Costco in it. Of course that mall is so big it would take a lot of people and time to secure.

[Ragnarr]

I cannot agree with Wyldwraith's "RED FLAG" post more! There's several points during Dawn04 that the viewer can only conclude that these characters were too stupid to survive for any length of time. The first clue was when the characters first entered the mall (throwing the toilet through the window - durp#1). Next was Michael in the sports store exchanging his nice, metal crowbar for a weeney croquet hammer (durp #2). Others would be Andre hiding the fact that his pregnant wife had been bitten (durp #3), Bart armed with a battery powered lamp on his shoulder during the garage scene (durp#4), and the weird shootout between Norma and Andre (durp #5). Then that little dog Chips. Chips was the catalyst for gunshop Andy being killed, the reason Tucker was killed in the sewers after the gunshop rescue, and of course all the rest of the characters being killed after Chips dutifully alerted every zombie on that island that it was dinner time.

[Trin]

But you have to hand it to the dog though. He survived the outbreak, the mall, the gun shop, and finally made it to the island where he called upon the zombies to get rid of the final risks to his wellbeing... the humans.

[Ragnarr]

But you have to hand it to the dog though. He survived the outbreak, the mall, the gun shop, and finally made it to the island where he called upon the zombies to get rid of the final risks to his wellbeing... the humans.

(lmao) Holy Crap! You're right! That dog turned out to be the smartest one of the entire group!

[rongravy]

But you have to hand it to the dog though. He survived the outbreak, the mall, the gun shop, and finally made it to the island where he called upon the zombies to get rid of the final risks to his wellbeing... the humans.
Wow. I totally never thought of that. My ferret better not try to pull that crap and start dooking at the wrong time or she's toast along with me.

[Trin]

@Wyld - I also agree with the RED FLAG post. I'd add that there's no way in heck I ever run out of gas in that boat. At the quarter tank point I turn off the engine and start rowing, knowing I might need the gas for a quick getaway from my island of choice.

[Ragnarr]

Wow. I totally never thought of that. My ferret better not try to pull that crap and start dooking at the wrong time or she's toast along with me.

While I'd say ferrets certainly rock, it would take a ferret way too long to get food across the mall parking lot to Andy's gunshop. Besides, the little critter would only be able to carry a few Ritz crackers in its saddle bags at best.

[Wyldwraith]

Thanks guys,
And agree with the shutting down the engine at 1/4 a tank of gas. I've been on small outboard yachts once or twice, and something I noticed was while selling WELL is an extremely difficult series of sub-sets of skills, sailing in an extremely inefficient, very crude manner is about as difficult as common sense would indicate. Ie: Stretching cloth over the general mast framework and trying to keep the wind behind it. But, that oversight ill give the survivors, since sailing very much looks so complicated that most people would be extremely hesitant to fuck around w/ things that have been lashed down.

I dunno, I'm with the camp that believes the survivors stupid actions screwed the mall situation for them, and that their reasoning for leaving was about as contrived as reasoning can be. I mean Hell, they were losing people left, right and center in a mostly-secured structure. Whatever would've made them believe that the breakout would've gone any better than it turned out it actually went?

The whole "I don't want to die here" thing is weak when you follow their pie-in-the-sky goal-setting to its logical conclusion "I dont want to die here, but I'd enjoy dying somewhere I have never seen and know nothing whatsoever about better." For all they knew, the island in question could've been a glorified sand bar with a fishing camp shack on it.

For me at least, Dawn '04 started as a not-terrible way to spend 90-ish minutes. However, with many repeated re-watchings, my enjoyment of its good points have diminished even as my irritation with the Caricature-characters has grown.

The sad thing is, the "Year of the Zombie" (which has actually been like 2-3yrs at this point) seems to be tapering off. Much fewer new zombie flicks even remotely watchable, and a severe die-off of new zombie novels (except for anthologies for some reason). Ah well, judging by the previews of TWD: Season 2, the series will continue to deliver at least.

[Ragnarr]

You're right about reserving some of the boat's fuel certainly, and also about the characters making a simplistic square sail rigging to catch some choice winds. I would also add the use of oars. I believe maritime law requires small to medium size civilian boats to carry life jackets AND oars.

I still like the beginning part of Dawn04; when Ana climbs out the bathroom window to see her neighborhood in chaos, and her frenzied ride out to the main highway. Up until the toilet-through-the-store-window scene, the flick totally had me on the edge of my seat. Go TWD!

**Correction: checked Coastguard maritime law & found no reference to oar requirements for boats under 60 ft.**

[Thorn]

Thanks guys,
And agree with the shutting down the engine at 1/4 a tank of gas. I've been on small outboard yachts once or twice, and something I noticed was while selling WELL is an extremely difficult series of sub-sets of skills, sailing in an extremely inefficient, very crude manner is about as difficult as common sense would indicate. Ie: Stretching cloth over the general mast framework and trying to keep the wind behind it. But, that oversight ill give the survivors, since sailing very much looks so complicated that most people would be extremely hesitant to fuck around w/ things that have been lashed down.

I dunno, I'm with the camp that believes the survivors stupid actions screwed the mall situation for them, and that their reasoning for leaving was about as contrived as reasoning can be. I mean Hell, they were losing people left, right and center in a mostly-secured structure. Whatever would've made them believe that the breakout would've gone any better than it turned out it actually went?

The whole "I don't want to die here" thing is weak when you follow their pie-in-the-sky goal-setting to its logical conclusion "I dont want to die here, but I'd enjoy dying somewhere I have never seen and know nothing whatsoever about better." For all they knew, the island in question could've been a glorified sand bar with a fishing camp shack on it.

For me at least, Dawn '04 started as a not-terrible way to spend 90-ish minutes. However, with many repeated re-watchings, my enjoyment of its good points have diminished even as my irritation with the Caricature-characters has grown.

The sad thing is, the "Year of the Zombie" (which has actually been like 2-3yrs at this point) seems to be tapering off. Much fewer new zombie flicks even remotely watchable, and a severe die-off of new zombie novels (except for anthologies for some reason). Ah well, judging by the previews of TWD: Season 2, the series will continue to deliver at least.

I am not so much bothered by the Dawn remake, as you well know... but in the end I can honestly say that there were a lot of decisions made that I question as a sound person sitting back and looking at the choices from a logical perspective. Boat fuel being one of them. Docking a boat to a pier without testing the waters? Like I dont know, mooring near to shore and yelling? Seems to draw attention. You might get shot at but hey then you know there are survivors, and they might need you more than you need them or at least as much or you might need to beat feet. Either way you do that before you tie off and wait for the zombie or redneck rush through your ranks.

I hate the ending and lately I just don't watch it. For me the movie should end after they take off in the boat. The rest quite frankly is just plain terrible, and gratuitous Romero-esque no one here gets out alive film making.

At least with GAR that death was usually ironic, or in someway meaningful.

[Neil]

The rest quite frankly is just plain terrible, and gratuitous Romero-esque no one here gets out alive film making.

At least with GAR that death was usually ironic, or in someway meaningful.

In most of Romero's films, the hero survives... Night 68 I think is the only exception!

[Thorn]

This is true of course, but those who do survive usually are damaged in some way physically, psychologically, ripped from their circumstances after having watched their fellows killed around them. The illusion of safety destroyed.

They flee to an island, they may or may not make it. They take off in a chopper... they may or may not get North. Either way you are not left with a rosy feeling, society is not put back together and everyone is happy go lucky as Disney fireworks shoot off in the background (Land is a vile exception here).

In part this is why I like Italian films because in America we seem like we have to have the... "and they lived happily ever after", and that is just not the case in 95% of Romero films. Hell even Ben's death was Ironic, and it told a story. It was death with a purpose.

To me that beats "Well we have to kill everyone" or "We can't end on an up-note so how do we screw the survivors and viewers" with an ending that is less than satisfactory.

Perhaps I should have clarified more.

[Mike70]

rowing a boat that size with so few people is simply not going to work. not only is the sheer mass of the boat working against you (plus the fact it was never designed to be rowed anywhere), but also any sort of current, even a small one would stop you in your tracks.

i've spent 25 years in kayaks, so i'm no novice to the water. the sailboat in dawn isn't going to be rowed anywhere. the energy required to do so would be enormous and the few people left in the boat would find themselves dead tired, dehydrated and generally in a bad mood after such an attempt, because in all likelihood, they'd find it nearly impossible to move that thing.

better to try and get it under sail power. which is tricky depending on the type of sails that were set when the boat was taken. not all sails are made equal and an idiot could quickly find themselves being pushed back towards the shore (maybe the very place they left) if the sails are not set right.

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
If your group, working together, can make armored transports out of mall shuttles I couldn't buy them not being able to jimmy a measure of sailcloth into position and control it by means of muscling the jib. It's crude as all get out, but people crossed oceans with similar setups just on a bit larger a scale. However, I'll qualify what I'm saying with this: I have no boating experience beyond outboard-driven skiffs & bassboats, and *I* certainly couldn't turn a mall shuttle into an armored transport.

That said, I agree with previous posters that the ending was little more than a copycat-effort of the "No one gets out alive" model ending. Which, with time, has grown dull and lost all punch through its constant over-use.

[Trin]

This is true of course, but those who do survive usually are damaged in some way physically, psychologically, ripped from their circumstances after having watched their fellows killed around them. The illusion of safety destroyed.That's true for the people who didn't survive too. Yeah... think about that for a second.

But seriously, as for the sailing thing. It never bugged me until now. They left the marina under power, and any idiot can manage that. But navigating a sailboat into an island dock without benefit of the motor - I have to believe that is more difficult than portrayed. Of course, at 90 minutes into Dawn '04 that's probably the least of your plot nitpicking.

In minor defense of Dawn '04... the movie never promised compelling and thoughtful plot. I think Dawn '04 does one of the classic "roll over and give up" moves in terms of plot. They have someone opposed to the "plan" (in this case CJ) voice all the reasons why the plan is not viable... which often involves stating a rash of the obvious... then miraculously that person agrees to it with no explanation or reasoning. It's like the movie looking the audience in the eye and saying, "Yup, we aren't even trying to sell it."

[Christopher Jon]

Was reading this thread.

Thought I'd clear up the end of Dawn of the Dead since there are a lot of foggy memories.

I popped in the DVD to get everything right.

Picking up where they use the sewers to reach the gun store.


Steve (the a-hole) is left guarding the door that leads back into the mall.

They follow the sewer, reach the gun store, rescue the girl and get more guns.

On the way back they are unable to close the sewer manhole and zombies chase after them through the sewer.

When they reach the door back into the mall, it's locked. Steve ditched them.

It's Ana (the nurse) who eventually lets them back in.

By this point the stairwell below them is packed with zombies.

CJ (security guard) attempts to close the door but is unable too. Too many zombies.

They run.

The hoard of zombies is flooding into the mall.

The survivors have no choice but to head for the vehicles and leave. They've lost the mall.

Whatever the escape plan was, it's thrown out the window now. They are running for their lives now. The trucks at this point weren't even finished and haven't been loaded with any supplies. They weren't planning on leaving for a couple more days at the earliest.

While driving. Steve, the only guy who knows anything about boats, is killed.

Most of the plot holes brought up are a result of bad memories.

[rongravy]

Ehhhh, say what you want about how much this movie sucks, but it is one of the thangies that brought zeds back to the forefront.
Do I like sprinting zombies? No.
Why?
Because I'm a semi fat f*ck who would run out of air after about, say........... 45 seconds.
Did I enjoy this movie at the theater and a second time at the drive inn with my kids and nephews?
Hell yes, it was a great time.
So, yeah, pick this movie apart as you will, but the FX were great. Sure, I fall asleep by the time they go through the "hanging out at the mall" montage, but dayumn. The Walking Dead has just as many plot holes in it, but I don't hear NEARLY as much bitching over it.
Some of you need to lighten the f*ck up.
I'm just saying...

[Yojimbo]

Steve (the a-hole) is left guarding the door that leads back into the mall.

They follow the sewer, reach the gun store, rescue the girl and get more guns.

On the way back they are unable to close the sewer manhole and zombies chase after them through the sewer.

When they reach the door back into the mall, it's locked. Steve ditched them.

It's Ana (the nurse) who eventually lets them back in.

By this point the stairwell below them is packed with zombies.

CJ (security guard) attempts to close the door but is unable too. Too many zombies.

They run.

The hoard of zombies is flooding into the mall.

The survivors have no choice but to head for the vehicles and leave. They've lost the mall.

Whatever the escape plan was, it's thrown out the window now. They are running for their lives now. The trucks at this point weren't even finished and haven't been loaded with any supplies. They weren't planning on leaving for a couple more days at the earliest.

While driving. Steve, the only guy who knows anything about boats, is killed.
Most of the plot holes brought up are a result of bad memories.

"They follow the sewer, reach the gun store, rescue the girl and get more guns."

Question: Why didn't they do this in the first place rather than trying an overly elaborate plan involving the dog? Alternatively, why didn't they simply drive over, running over a lot of zombies on the way, to get the guy from the gun store. If the first set of survivors could climb up to the mall roof from the top of the truck, gunstore chess dude could likely climb down.

"On the way back they are unable to close the sewer manhole and zombies chase after them through the sewer."

Question: Instead of taking the sewer, why didn't they use the truck parked outside?

"When they reach the door back into the mall, it's locked. Steve ditched them."

Question: You realize that Steve is an asshole, self serving and self obsessed and this is the guy you have controlling your exit? Really?

"It's Ana (the nurse) who eventually lets them back in.

By this point the stairwell below them is packed with zombies."

Why the hell wasn't Anna guarding the door in the first place instead of known asshole Steve? Had she been on door duty, they would have gotten back into the mall and secured the door well before the stairwell below became full of zombies.

"CJ (security guard) attempts to close the door but is unable too. Too many zombies."

Again, should not have happened. Also, why not use the 12 gauge to take out the zombies all clustered together as they come up the staircase? A few blasts would have knocked the zombies in the front backwards into the others, further delaying their approach.

"They run...The hoard of zombies is flooding into the mall."

Again, should not have happened. Their obvious errors in judgement made this possible. Along this line, shouldn't they have secured the keys from the truck in the first place so that the ridiculousness with dog girl - or being taken by a passing looter - could not occur?


"The survivors have no choice but to head for the vehicles and leave. They've lost the mall. Whatever the escape plan was, it's thrown out the window now. They are running for their lives now. The trucks at this point weren't even finished and haven't been loaded with any supplies. They weren't planning on leaving for a couple more days at the earliest."

Why didn't they plan for this contingency? Seems inconceivable that they would do anything but be ready to leave in a moments notice should the mall be breached, "shatter proof" glass notwithstanding.

"While driving. Steve, the only guy who knows anything about boats, is killed."

Yeah, predictable plot twist - could see this one coming since it was heavily telegraphed in the script with Anna's dialogue and since morally reprehensible cowards stereotypically get killed off in the third act.

I do know that a lot of the fans including myself have sometimes been a little overjudgemental with "DOTD the remake in name only" - some of it is justified, and some of it admittedly is a lot of fan-boy outrage that someone had the audacity to take a beloved film and do an inferior version of it in a manner that seemed to have little respect for the source film. Giving it a second thought, I do still that this "remake" is a film full of plot holes, MTV type presentation taking precedence over substance, characters who are poorly fleshed out and largely unlikable stereotypes, stereotypical dialogue, and severe jumps in logic that require more than just a suspension of disbelief to swallow.

I will admit that there were some moments that I truly enjoyed in this film. The bit at the beginning with the suburban neighborhood going to hell was pretty cool. I did like the nods to Romero's films, however tacked on and supercillious they might have been. But in the end, recollective fuzziness can only be a benefit to this film rather than a detriment.