Stephen Hawkins: Heaven is a fairy story...

[Neil]

Have to agree I'm afraid!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/stephen-hawking/8515639/Stephen-Hawking-heaven-is-a-fairy-story-for-people-afraid-of-the-dark.html

[Rottedfreak]

I'm a Atheist and while i think there's enough reason to believe the universe could be naturally formed and doubt the holy books and their claims of 'the written/dictated word of god' and 'divine truth' there's still the possibility there may a afterlife.

[Danny]

i saw "heaven is-" on the frontpage.

i breathed a sigh of relief that the ending was not "a halfpipe" and it was a cover song...

[blind2d]

Hmm... Where's that meme I made of the Jesus picture where he's coming out of the tomb and... Never mind. Anyway, Heaven is an empty backyard pool. Or a place where nothing ever happens. Either way, most people wouldn't like it.

[AcesandEights]

Now that's a fairytale I'd like to wake up to, but yeah...not likely, at least not in any universal and literal sense of the definition.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-e0A76XXqrng/TVyPmaF4m0I/AAAAAAAAIAE/KoqlVIixoWU/s1600/where-is-your-god-now-1.jpg

[Danny]

Now that's a fairytale I'd like to wake up to, but yeah...not likely, at least not in any universal and literal sense of the definition.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-e0A76XXqrng/TVyPmaF4m0I/AAAAAAAAIAE/KoqlVIixoWU/s1600/where-is-your-god-now-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/khazrak/41592_6886799934_16_n.jpg

[JDFP]

Yawn. Been here and argued this to death. Atheists will believe what they want and we Theists will believe what we want, no Richard Dawkins or C.S. Lewis is going to change anyone's mind on the matter.

I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion.

j.p.

[Danny]

I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion.

j.p.


well to be fair thats an apt description. at last from a scientific point of view. man naturally fears his death as much as they fear the dark. Because we consider it, if you are spiritual, as a great unknown akin to the caveman standing on the edge of his fire staring out into the dark wondering what might be out there, and some choose to believe without proof -which i suppose is the point of faith- that there is a perfect world that waits them after. from a logical standpoint thats a natural reaction to our deaths when we have reached a point as a lifeform that we comprehend the true finality of it. calling it a fairy tail is an apt description if you dont believe in it. its a fable, something to calm the mind and comfort the soul so to speak. it's not meant as some patronising denigration its a cold description of a belief that for someone who has no religious bone in their body is specifically drummed up as part of a coping mechanism for what a spiritual person would consider a great unknown that i'm sure is a worry that keeps many religious folks awake at night 'what if its not real?'

because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'?

[Neil]

because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'?

Most civilisations/cultures have found some reason to assume their own self importance in the universe, and find some reason why they shouldn't just fade into dust at death... This was propped up initially by a lack of understanding of nature and the events around them, but now?

[JDFP]

well to be fair thats an apt description. at last from a scientific point of view. man naturally fears his death as much as they fear the dark. Because we consider it, if you are spiritual, as a great unknown akin to the caveman standing on the edge of his fire staring out into the dark wondering what might be out there, and some choose to believe without proof -which i suppose is the point of faith- that there is a perfect world that waits them after. from a logical standpoint thats a natural reaction to our deaths when we have reached a point as a lifeform that we comprehend the true finality of it. calling it a fairy tail is an apt description if you dont believe in it. its a fable, something to calm the mind and comfort the soul so to speak. it's not meant as some patronising denigration its a cold description of a belief that for someone who has no religious bone in their body is specifically drummed up as part of a coping mechanism for what a spiritual person would consider a great unknown that i'm sure is a worry that keeps many religious folks awake at night 'what if its not real?'

because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'?

This is a good post, Hellsing. I'd say plenty of people who either choose to believe or not believe consider the question as to whether "Is there an afterlife or not?" and what said afterlife may or may not be like. I don't consider my personal faith to be based on "no proof" as Atheists tend to believe, rather it's just a matter of the proof of my faith that I accept (the resurrection of Christ, the apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Fatima, etc. etc.) an Atheist would conclude is not proof but rather fallacy (i.e. 'your proof really isn't proof because as an atheist I don't accept your proof by my scientifically empirical standards').

I think as an educated Christian one would conclude that it just doesn't really matter if there is or isn't an afterlife. It's really, as it should be, a moot point to at least Christians. It's not about what happens to an individual's soul in any potential 'afterlife' or not as opposed to how the soul is changed in this world through a relationship with God. I don't ever really consider any potential afterlife or not -- it just doesn't matter to me so much.

Unfortunately, there are just as many uneducated Theists as there are Atheists who see their religious ideology as being on a third grade level as well who don't come to this realization/conclusion.

j.p.

[Danny]

This is a good post, Hellsing. I'd say plenty of people who either choose to believe or not believe consider the question as to whether "Is there an afterlife or not?" and what said afterlife may or may not be like. I don't consider my personal faith to be based on "no proof" as Atheists tend to believe, rather it's just a matter of the proof of my faith that I accept (the resurrection of Christ, the apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Fatima, etc. etc.) an Atheist would conclude is not proof but rather fallacy (i.e. 'your proof really isn't proof because as an atheist I don't accept your proof by my scientifically empirical standards').

I think as an educated Christian one would conclude that it just doesn't really matter if there is or isn't an afterlife. It's really, as it should be, a moot point to at least Christians. It's not about what happens to an individual's soul in any potential 'afterlife' or not as opposed to how the soul is changed in this world through a relationship with God. I don't ever really consider any potential afterlife or not -- it just doesn't matter to me so much.

Unfortunately, there are just as many uneducated Theists as there are Atheists who see their religious ideology as being on a third grad level as well who don't come to this realization/conclusion.

j.p.

At the end of the day i always think it doesn't matter. Sure i'll argue why ghosts are bollocks till im blue in the face but doe's one individuals belief on what happens to them when they die have any relevance to anyone but them? i don't think so. -that said i've always considered religion- or lack of is a deeply personal thing and certain points of it like the afterlife are really just between you, yourself and maybe a man upstairs if you think one is their.

[blind2d]

Plus, like, we're all going to Hell, anyway, so... No, that's not fair, I'm sure it's not true... I'm going to Hell, at least.

[JDFP]

uvKEeKtVOT8&feature=related

Who needs to go to Hell when you can experience it here on earth?

j.p.

[Mr. Clean]

More room for me :D

[wayzim]

Yawn. Been here and argued this to death. Atheists will believe what they want and we Theists will believe what we want, no Richard Dawkins or C.S. Lewis is going to change anyone's mind on the matter.

I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion.

j.p.

That's a fair assessment, since like any spokemen for any view point, we seem to pick the nutters.
There was a good arguement against science and other alleged logic minded disciplines chasing ghosts or God. This, years ago in 'The Skeptical Inquirer ( as well as some excellent books by James (The Amazing Randi )
Simply stated; You can't prove a negative. You can, however, build a statistical formula to show the likelyhood of something approaching Nil, but it seems a waste of Time to me.
What's revealled - will be, at the proper moment.

Most comments otherwise tends to make both partys look abit immature.

Wayne Z

" That was Easy. " declared Man, who then went on to prove that 'Black.' was indeed 'White.' and shortly after was killed at the next Zebra Crossing. "

Douglas Adams, HitchHiker's Guide to The Universe.

[MoonSylver]

Heaven is a fairy story?

http://funhousetheatrical.com/images/sexy_fairy_costumes.jpg
http://images.halloweencostume.com/sexy-fairy-halloween-costume.jpghttp://www.makeupstyles.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sexy-fairy-costume-1.jpghttp://www.prlog.org/10939461-sexy-fairy-princess-costume.jpg

Dude, I am SO there...:lol:

[Tricky]

I'm of the opinion that there is no heaven and hell, or gods and all that jazz, you only get one life, so live the shit out of it :) I didnt really know what to call that opinion until my auntys funeral at the beginning of the year, she was a Humanist, and the words spoken at the ceremony pretty much summed up what I think


Humanism is the view that we can make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values and that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs.

Humanists seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves. We choose to take responsibility for our actions and work with others for the common good.

Humanists do not believe in a God or gods, or any other supernatural or divine entities. Humanists do not think that the universe needs a divine power outside of itself in order to have value. We, inside the universe, determine its value. We think that other people, for example, are moral concerns, not because they are made in the image of Something Else, but because of who they are in themselves.

What humanists believe

Humanism is an approach to life based on humanity and reason – humanists recognise that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone and that the aims of morality should be human welfare, happiness and fulfillment. Our decisions are based on the available evidence and our assessment of the outcomes of our actions, not on any dogma or sacred text.

Humanism is a naturalistic view, encompassing atheism and agnosticism as responses to theistic claims, but is an active and ethical philosophy greater than these reactions to religion.
Humanists believe in individual rights and freedoms, but believe that individual responsibility, social cooperation and mutual respect are just as important.
Humanists believe that people can and will continue to find solutions to the world's problems, so that quality of life can be improved for everyone.
Humanists are positive, gaining inspiration from our lives, art and culture, and a rich natural world.
Humanists believe that we have only one life, it is our responsibility to make it a good life, and to live it flourishingly.

[Danny]

i've always considered myself a humanist, just form a logical standpoint its always made the most sense to my husky zen, dude abiding ass. but i've always made more of a connection to the term with racial, gender and cultural equality than religious belief- or lack thereof.

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------


That's a fair assessment, since like any spokemen for any view point, we seem to pick the nutters.

ain't that the truth. Like i've said before what do you hear about in the media the priest helping feed starving kids in africa or the kiddy fiddling 1 in a million guy who preaches intolerance and the evils of discovery? the bad is always more sensationalist and marketable than the 'boring' good deeds done by anyone.

[blind2d]

Keep the blonds, Moon. Hell's got the brunette's, so that's where I'll be.

[Mr. Clean]

LMAO @ Moonsylver

Freaking Sweet!

[MinionZombie]

i saw "heaven is-" on the frontpage.

i breathed a sigh of relief that the ending was not "a halfpipe" and it was a cover song...

Ha! +1 :thumbsup:

...

Not got an awful lot to say, but it reminded me of Enter The Void, which I just watched the other week - a movie that's mostly from the viewpoint of a dead drug dealer who was killed whilst high on DMT having recently read some of The Tibetan Book of the Dead.

I'd like to believe there was some kind of weird, super-consciousness thing beyond death, when you merge with the universe and find out everything and become everything ... or some shit like that. :)

I'm seriously half-serious. ;)

[Danny]

what if the reaper was real thought? sandman or discworldstyle?

personally i would have to ask him/her/it "okay, whats the most fucked up way youve seen someone die? like im talkin' worse than david keradine style shit. lay it on me" :lol:

[Mitchified]

My main problem with Stephen Hawking is not that he does or does not believe in a Heaven, but that he's as intelligent as he is but still unable to accept that he might simply not understand things that are beyond him. Shutting the door on even the possibility of there being a God is just bad science; instead of saying, "There is no God", the more correct statement is, "I do not see evidence of God." The fact of the matter is that until everything in the universe is understood (which will basically never happen), there is the possibility, no matter how low the odds, that some divinity exists somewhere out there.

[AcesandEights]

The fact of the matter is that until everything in the universe is understood (which will basically never happen), there is the possibility, no matter how low the odds, that some divinity exists somewhere out there.

Uh, I'm right here in front of you.

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1233425536_sanuelk%20l%20jackson%20-%20the%20wizard%20of%20oz.gif

[MoonSylver]

I'd like to believe there was some kind of weird, super-consciousness thing beyond death, when you merge with the universe and find out everything and become everything ... or some shit like that. :)

You do.

http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/what-star-wars-means-to-me-force-ghosts.jpg

I know because George Lucas told me so. ;)

[blind2d]

Who's that guy next to Yoda?! That's not Hayden Christiansen!1! What film is that frm?! Must be a pirated copy, lol!

[MoonSylver]

Keep the blonds, Moon. Hell's got the brunette's, so that's where I'll be.

Mephistopheles is all about the redheads...

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/ladybugdemo/SexyDevilWoman.jpg

http://www.dreampleasuretours.com/dpt/images/dpt-website/sexy%20devil.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/sydsimmons/sexy/KittyKlaw.jpg

...duh! :lol:


Who's that guy next to Yoda?! That's not Hayden Christiansen!1! What film is that frm?! Must be a pirated copy, lol!

:lol:

I thought of that. But if a used a picture that featured Darth Emo in it, I'd have to stick a lightsaber up my own *HAT*hole. ;)

[MikePizzoff]

I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion.

j.p.

No offense to you, but that's how I feel about religion as a whole.

Both sides think the exact same thing of the opposite side. Neither side can be swayed. The battle rages on.

But, I supposed we shall see who is right (once again) after rapture doesn't happen this Saturday! :D

[blind2d]

Mephistopheles is all about the redheads...

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/ladybugdemo/SexyDevilWoman.jpg

http://www.dreampleasuretours.com/dpt/images/dpt-website/sexy%20devil.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/sydsimmons/sexy/KittyKlaw.jpg

...duh! :lol:



:lol:

I thought of that. But if a used a picture that featured Darth Emo in it, I'd have to stick a lightsaber up my own *HAT*hole. ;)

Yep, Darth Emo indeed... Love ya, Moon.
Hurm... that third girl is a cat, not a devil-chick... (tries to find image of World Industries comic featuring blond, brunette, and redhead demon girls and fails, but remembers it did exist at some point) Hook-Ups has done it too. God, I love skateboarding... And Star Wars. (Looks at picture of Plan B pro Star Wars series). Ah Rodney... You are SO Yoda!

[Neil]

Heaven is a fairy story?

http://funhousetheatrical.com/images/sexy_fairy_costumes.jpg
http://images.halloweencostume.com/sexy-fairy-halloween-costume.jpghttp://www.makeupstyles.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sexy-fairy-costume-1.jpghttp://www.prlog.org/10939461-sexy-fairy-princess-costume.jpg

Dude, I am SO there...:lol:

Dear God! What were my four X girlfriends all thinking?

[MoonSylver]

Dear God! What were my four X girlfriends all thinking?

"Yes Daddy Moon, we'll dress up as whatever you want, just don't spank us again! Well, maybe just a little..." :lol:

[EvilNed]

Opiate for the masses.

[JDFP]

No offense to you, but that's how I feel about religion as a whole.

Both sides think the exact same thing of the opposite side. Neither side can be swayed. The battle rages on.

But, I supposed we shall see who is right (once again) after rapture doesn't happen this Saturday! :D

Eh, Rapture is a mainline Protestant notion. Catholics, like me, don't buy that whole "Millienialist" ideology. I don't think it will happen either, but it will be entertaining if it does! I went over to Jersey Mike's for a meatball sub today just in case. They are expensive as hell (cost me freaking $11.75 for a 12" sub) but they are good -- I figure it's a special occasion, I might be dead tomorrow so enjoy it while I can.


Opiate for the masses.

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Wow, some kind of opiate for the masses, aye!

In context to Marx he was talking about the bastardization of weak members in the faith who preferred their childish interpretation of: "Oh, if I just follow these rules I'll get to eat pie in the sky when I die with the big guy with the white beard!" that Atheists love ot hark on. Marx was right to do so as well -- immature Christians are supplanting what Christ actually taught and the principles of faith with their own imaginary desires. Opiate, indeed.

j.p.

[EvilNed]

Whatever Marx meant or did not mean (which is up for interpretation, I suppose, as is everything else), the quote itself sums up religion and faith pretty nicely. I do not have a spiritual bone in my body and I look at religion as I would superstition. Something which people use to explain away things they do not understand. To sum up their existence into something tangible. To find meaning where there necessarily isn't any.

Say what you want about thoughts like these and atheism. But all religions can be traced alongside the socio-political evolution of human society. There's really nothing else to it.

[MikePizzoff]

Eh, Rapture is a mainline Protestant notion. Catholics, like me, don't buy that whole "Millienialist" ideology. I don't think it will happen either, but it will be entertaining if it does! I went over to Jersey Mike's for a meatball sub today just in case. They are expensive as hell (cost me freaking $11.75 for a 12" sub) but they are good -- I figure it's a special occasion, I might be dead tomorrow so enjoy it while I can.
j.p.

Trust me, JP, you'll be alive and well tomorrow. It's already May 21 in parts of Europe and they're quite fine. However, nice choice on going with some Jersey food!

[Publius]

Eh, Rapture is a mainline Protestant notion. Catholics, like me, don't buy that whole "Millienialist" ideology.

My understanding is that the Catholic Church accepts the rapture, but holds to a post-tribulationist chronology, rather than the pre-tribulationist view that is most popular these days with evangelical and fundamentalist Protestants.

[Rancid Carcass]

It's already May 21 in parts of Europe and they're quite fine.

No we're not... The fire! The brimstone! Damn my life of sinful choices! Save me! save me! ARRRRRRRRRGGGGG! NOOOOOOOOOOO!

:eek: :D

[JDFP]

My understanding is that the Catholic Church accepts the rapture, but holds to a post-tribulationist chronology, rather than the pre-tribulationist view that is most popular these days with evangelical and fundamentalist Protestants.

Oh yes, now you're talking my Theological jive, baby! I get off on this stuff like shit bugs in July next to a Korean restaurant...

I'm a mostly a preterist, I think the Book of Revelations has already happened around 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem/Diaspora and the coming fall of Rome several centuries later. We're looking for stuff to happen that's already taken place -- Revelations has already been fulfilled. The "Last Days" aren't necessarily the "last days" of the earth, but the last days of the old Mosaic Covenant Judaism had prior to the coming of Christ.

As far as the millennial issue I'm fairly amillennial -- I don't think people are going to up and disappear as part of some "rapture" -- it's a too literal interpretation of Scripture that should be taken more allegorical for events that have already, mostly, taken place with the fall of Jerusalem and the fall of Rome. "Revelations" has already taken place -- we're living in a different age now.

j.p.

[Rottedfreak]

Kirk Cameron had a pop at Stephen Hawking saying he has a 'unfair disadvantage' being in that wheelchair and upholds the absurd unscientific idea that eveything came from nothing.
Kirk Cameron is CROCODUCK BOY!

[MikePizzoff]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OZSjvlxnP2M/TbRijHove7I/AAAAAAAAFG0/YGdcmOeuKHM/s1600/zombie-jesus.jpg

[Neil]

^^ lol!

[blind2d]

Well, when you put it that way, Mike...