What Makes A BAD Zombie Film?

[Ozhair]

We're putting together plans for a low-budget zombie feature film shoot here in Australia. We'll have a fair bit of experienced talent on the production side of things, so we're hoping to have a decent film at the end of it.

I'm a long-time fan of the zombie genre, and I've written a script that I think works quite well. But I want to make a film that appeals to the zombie fans, so I want to ask you all a question that will hopefully allow us to prevent any mis-steps before we go into production.

So, my question is:
What makes a BAD zombie film? And I'm not talking about so-bad-it's-good. What makes a zombie film unwatchable or disappointing to the zombie fans out there?

Any input appreciated :-)

Cheers

[JDFP]

- A scene with a character saying: "Hello? Hello? Is anyone there?" -- this isn't just for a zombie genre but any horror film at all. "Day" gets a pass due to situational purpose. And you can always see it coming. I'm almost to a point where I see this happening I want to shut the fracking film off because this damn shit pisses me off to no end. This doesn't EVER happen in real life and it's cheap. It just irks me. Horror film cliches 101. If this isn't #1 it's in the top #5. Just once I'd love to see a horror flick where someone yells "Hello?" and someone replies: "Yeah? Here I am!"

- Running zombies. Yeah, you try running with rigor mortis. Let me know how that works out for you.

- Zombies that give impossibly high screeching. Does becoming a zombie change your vocal cords?

- People doing stupid things. "Hey guys, let's go into this creepy looking house here instead of walking onward into town!" I'd like to see the end of the film where the guy who said: "Screw that!" is hanging out with some people in civilization and nonchalantly asks: "Hmm, wonder where the rest of that group is."

- Cars that happen to break down at the worst possible moment. Why don't you ever have it happen five hours earlier? "Sorry, guys, can't join you up at Camp Crystal Lake because my POS car broke down on me."

Anyway, these are mostly general issues I have with horror films and not necessarily just zombie flicks. I just felt like raving a bit over some stuff that annoys me. Hope it helps some.

j.p.

[Yojimbo]

For once I would like to see characters in a zombie film who are not gunslingers in their normal lives have difficulty hitting thier targets in the head (as was the case in the original Dawn, but not the case in the remake) This sort of sudden and unexplicable profiency with guns just pisses me off and is the mark of a stupid film.

[Rancid Carcass]

Paramount Pictures... :shifty:

[BillyRay]

Bad Acting.

I know, I know, when you have a small budget to work with, you're happy for "shows up", or at least telegenic. or at LEAST least, will take off her shirt on camera for free.

But shitty acting takes me right out of any film. I need to believe the people involved if I'm going to buy anything else the filmmaker wants to tell me.

[Andy]

So, my question is:
What makes a BAD zombie film? And I'm not talking about so-bad-it's-good. What makes a zombie film unwatchable or disappointing to the zombie fans out there?

Watch romeros new trilogy, particularly land of the dead.


Do EVERYTHING romero doesn't and don't do anything romero does and your movie will be great :)

[Trin]

Unwatchable -
- Gags... Those are a killer... They take you totally out of the situation. Pair that will characters responding with quips and I have no desire to keep watching.
- Unrealistic things... People continuing after getting shot. Zombies that have inhuman traits (strength, quickness, etc.). Some of the stuff that JD quotes.

Disappointing -
- Character Motivations not aligned with Plot... If I have to ask myself why the characters are doing something... then my engagement with the movie goes down.
- Plot Contrivance... When the plot doesn't make sense it doesn't matter how epic the battle is or how iconic the scene shoots. Plot and character lay the foundation for a good story. Don't overlook them.
- Explaining Zombies - Yes, we all want to know *why* there are zombies. Don't bog me down with explanations... especially if those explanations are half-assed and make less sense than not knowing. Take a cue from Romero - the 3 greatest zombie movies of all time have NO ANSWERS about why there are zombies.

[bassman]

What Makes A BAD Zombie Film?

1. Zombies riding horses
2. Zombie babies
3. Vegetarian Zombies
4. Running Zombies
5. "Braaaiiinnnsss"

[BillyRay]

1. Zombies riding horses
2. Zombie babies
3. Vegetarian Zombies
4. Running Zombies
5. "Braaaiiinnnsss"

http://scientopia.org/blogs/childsplay/files/2010/12/CoolCat-SayingWORD_0.jpg

[Danny]

easy point few filmmakers think of: set design.

eg: the cast walks down abandoned road, for some reason they pause, investigate something, wot zombies outnumbering and surrounding them!

which wouldnt be a problem if the little things worked to enforce the idea of the area being 'foreign territory'. When was the last zombie film you saw where they walked through a street and there were dead bodies just on the sidewalk, garbage blowing around and just general crap about? i cant think of one. its almost always "is nobody walking down the street? okay, roll film!" but the mise-en-scene is not there to reinforce the film as any more than theatre. they dont use the scene, the actors play a world out that we never really see and thats a big problem nobody seems to comment on.

So make sure you have shit lying about, a bike on its side, a body slumped against a wall thats just there to be walked past instead of the focus of the scene. build the world for the actors, not the other way around.

[blind2d]

Listen to everyone above, especially Hells. He makes a very good point.
Also, don't make up words for the title of your film (Contagium. Still my choice for favorite-to-hate). And remember to have fun making it, just um... Not so much fun that the end result is crap.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Looks like my comment was deleted when the forums were attacked...

What I originally said was..

I don't mind Running Zombies, especially for outbreak movies because as I have stated in my own forum regarding my films is that Rigor Mortis takes 12-24 hours to set in, so if the dead did come back to life, and say the individual was a fresh kill... they could technically be as mobile as they were before expiring.

Once you approach the 12-24 hour mark you would see them gradually slow down, but keep in mind as long as muscles are moving, it can work out rigor mortis. By Romero's own rules the death and decay process is slowed down dramatically, so using his own science from Day of the Dead... technically zombies could run and be more agile... now as far as super smart zombies... no thanks, but agile zombies I have no problem with....


Now as far as what makes a bad movie... a terrible script. I have learned through making 2 of my own flicks script is very important, and with each new movie I make I try to work on the dialog and the story as much as I can but also keeping in mind that I will have severe budget restraints.

I have also learned using friends is not the best course of action when it comes to actors... now if you have friends that act for a living or are pursuing acting and do community theater/plays etc etc, use them by all means, but if you have to use friends with no experience... take it from me... rehearse rehearse rehearse.

Now the single biggest issue for me as to what makes a horrible indie zombie film, are over the top concepts.... keep it reality based. Do not do over the top stupidity and then bill it as a zombie horror film.

my second biggest gripe is the use of DEATH and SPEED METAL. I have walked out of indie zombie films at horror fests because of this and refuse to watch a single additional frame if the soundtrack has to be laiden with death or speed metal.

CInematography - This is something I have been putting a lot of time into with my last film (Deadlands 2) and the film I am currently shooting (All In the Game). Make sure that whatever camera you use it shoots 24fps and have a progressive mode. If you're shooting on DSLR's which btw are awesome cameras, I recommend the Canon T2i. The camera comes with a Mic input, and the standard kit lens (18mm-55mm) s good, buy an additional lens (55-250mm) for $200 and you have some to work with in terms of nice shots and good picture quality. You can also find rental houses that will rent you primes for that camera. For the money, you can get a T2i for about $700 new, with a total investment of $900 you have a decent, 1080p HD video camera in DSLR format and it shoots on SDHC mem cards usig H.264 format. You can get 32gb Class 10 cards from Newegg for about $32.99

That is my 2 cents on the subject. Good luck with the project

[glazedoverdead]

Hey hey now DJ... What the Hell is wrong with using Death Metal my friend???

[Trin]

I'm with DJ on this one... death metal in horror flicks does NOT make a movie more hardcore, scary, horrific, intense... whatever. It's just awful.

[BruceDowns]

Hi Guys,

Great thread. I'm also shooting a zombie (short) in late July. that i co-wrote with Rob Fox the auther of "z day is here" amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=z+day+is+here&sprefix=z+day+is+here). If you don't mind please listen to this song, Dead Alive (http://www.youtube.com/user/MikeInDominica#p/a/u/0/rTAW511vysw), that a friend wrote that i have permission to use. If you want to follow the production and news for the movie like my facebook page, Mile 29 Films (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mile-29-FIlms/125205747560994). Thanks.

[MoonSylver]

I'm with DJ on this one... death metal in horror flicks does NOT make a movie more hardcore, scary, horrific, intense... whatever. It's just awful.

Concur. It's like you're trying to hard to be "cool" : "Look kids! I dig what you young folks are listening to! I'm hip!" :rolleyes:

You might as well have your movie put on Hammer Pants & jump around going "Can't touch this!" if you're going to the well of tired & cliched.

[Ozhair]

Thanks for the input, guys. Much appreciated :-)

At a meeting last night my script was given the official go-ahead to be the first feature produced by the newly formed coalition of local filmmakers, so we're on the way :-)

So far, it looks as though my script avoids all the traps you've emntioned. I'm treating the subject matter seriously, not as a comedy. No running zombies, although I describe some of them as moving at a "fast shamble". No death metal. No instant kick-ass sharpshooters. Since this film is set in Australia, guns are nowhere near as prevalent as they are in the States. In fact there's only one gun in the script, and a lot of the internal conflict comes from argument over who gets the gun.

Since this group is made up of local filmmakers, production gear isn't a huge problem. Camera-wise we have several 5D MkII's and 7Ds, or Sony EX series cameras available. If we can up the cash budget a bit, there's even the possibility of shooting on a SI2K or RED. I'm a TV cameraman by trade, so I know most of the freelancers in town. A friend who has worked as a soundie on several features in Queensland is keen to get involved, so we'll have experience in that department as well.

The guy who initiated the coalition idea is a pro stunt guy with his own team, so we have that covered, as well as access to professional armourers. For makeup, there are a couple of make-up academies in town, one with a number of feature credits, who we'll be approaching to see if we can get some of their better students on board.

So, I'm excited :-) The next month will be spent ironing out the wrinkles in the script, then into pre-prod. Wish me luck :-)

[ZombieGrrL]

Goodluck Ozhair! It's so exciting to have an up&coming Aussie zombie film! :elol:

PS: Guys I'm so glad to hear your throughts about metal in zombie movies, that really annoys me. It DOESN'T add to it, & can take away from it.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Hey hey now DJ... What the Hell is wrong with using Death Metal my friend???

It is just one chord noise.

-- -------- Post added at 03:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------


Hi Guys,

Great thread. I'm also shooting a zombie (short) in late July. that i co-wrote with Rob Fox the auther of "z day is here" amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=z+day+is+here&sprefix=z+day+is+here). If you don't mind please listen to this song, Dead Alive (http://www.youtube.com/user/MikeInDominica#p/a/u/0/rTAW511vysw), that a friend wrote that i have permission to use. If you want to follow the production and news for the movie like my facebook page, Mile 29 Films (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mile-29-FIlms/125205747560994). Thanks.

I like the riff of the song, but the vocals are horrible. Ask the artist if you can get the instrumental version of the song, that would work for an end credits track.

[glazedoverdead]

Well, I have no problem with Death Metal in horror films in general. I don't feel that it makes the movie any better though either. It's a good movie or its not simple as that. I don't mind Metal in the movied probably because I happen to like Death Metal anyway, but I understand where you're coming from, especially if you don't care for that music in the first place.

[BillTheButcher]

- Unrealistic things... Zombies that have inhuman traits (strength, quickness, etc.).

You actually mean zombies are realistic in any way?


Disappointing -

- Explaining Zombies - Yes, we all want to know *why* there are zombies. Don't bog me down with explanations... especially if those explanations are half-assed and make less sense than not knowing. Take a cue from Romero - the 3 greatest zombie movies of all time have NO ANSWERS about why there are zombies.

Is there any explanation that actually comes close to explaining zombies? The entire idiocy of the entire genre is contained in that little fact. Zombies make no sense. Their taking over anything at all makes no sense.

[darth los]

No "investigating" strange noises ALONE. And for Pete's sake keep the comedy to a minimum. There's a fine line between well placed chuckles and slapstick that will make eyes roll. (see GAr's latest offerings).

:cool:

[MoonSylver]

You actually mean zombies are realistic in any way?

It's still possible to portray a somewhat unrealistic thing in a realistic way. Zombies portrayed as basicall dead humans, with human abilities or less= somewhat belivable. Zombies portrayed as SUPER human= less belivable.


The entire idiocy of the entire genre is contained in that little fact.

I find it increaseingly odd that a guy with a dislike for "fanboys" and who consideres the zombie genre idotic is hagining around a GAR FANsite devoted to ZOMBIES. :confused:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I loathe almost all rap music, so I'm off to post on Dr. Dre, Snoop Dog, & Eminem's websites...:lol: ;)

[darth los]

What makes a bad zombie film?:

John Russo within 1,000 yards of the set. :D

:cool:

[ZombieGrrL]

what makes a bad zombie film?:

John russo within 1,000 yards of the set. :d

:cool:

lol :d

[BillTheButcher]

I find it increaseingly odd that a guy with a dislike for "fanboys" and who consideres the zombie genre idotic is hagining around a GAR FANsite devoted to ZOMBIES. :confused:



I'm hanging around this site because, among other things, it has a "general horror" dimension. Also, because I write across genres. Any problems from your PoV with that?

I hate imperialism, too. Does that mean I can't read imperialistic literature and respond appropriately?

[mpokera]

I'm hanging around this site because, among other things, it has a "general horror" dimension. Also, because I write across genres. Any problems from your PoV with that?

I hate imperialism, too. Does that mean I can't read imperialistic literature and respond appropriately?

Of course it doesnt. But his statement is still valid. If you dont like zombies and indeed find them 'idiotic' it seems that this would be a place you would have very little interest in. Yes there is a small 'General' Horror section here, but why would you think you needed to read this topic? Or that anyone would be interested in your input? The very fact that you find the whole genre "idiotic' pretty much means that you have no useful ideas as to what can make one zombie movie better or worse, you have already stated you find them ALL 'idiotic'. Of course its a free discussion and you are welcome to chime in, just dont expect anyone to take you seriously or respect you input.

[MoonSylver]

I'm hanging around this site because, among other things, it has a "general horror" dimension. Also, because I write across genres. Any problems from your PoV with that?

No problem. Just an observation.

[DjfunkmasterG]

what makes a bad zombie film?:

John russo within 1,000 yards of the set. :d

:cool:

agreed 1,000,000,000 %

[krakenslayer]

I would be tempted to encourage you to avoid the zombie genre altogether (particularly the vanilla outbreak style) if you are at all concerned with making a unique, original, quality film that will further your careers. There has been a massive glut of zombie films, both good and bad, in recent years and now the genre is starting to look really tired and in much need of rest and/or reinvention. The problem with asking fans for help is that most of us (myself included) have very entrenched, arbitrary opinions about the genre, and a deep emotional investment in the genre as it currently stands, which make us probably the worst people to ask if you really want to get creative. If you get too interested in the demands of us fanboys, you'll just find yourself making the zombie equivalent of custom fetish videos.

[Trin]

You actually mean zombies are realistic in any way?
I assume you're just trying to bust my chops but you've earned a lesson in suspension of disbelief.

With any movie monster you have to establish the suspension of disbelief... the parameters by which your monster will defy the laws of physics and common sense. With zombies those parameters typically do not allow the monster to exceed the human being it came from. When script writers take liberties with what their zombies can do people pick up on it and start to call BS.

Vampires are a great example of suspension of disbelief allowing the monster to exceed the human. We don't question the plausibility of vampires in vampire movies. However, if a vampire were immune to sunlight or ate garlic without batting an eye we'd call BS.

Suspension of disbelief is very finicky and if it is abused it can ruin a movie faster than anything.

[krisvds]

What makes a bad zombie film?

Easy; Zack Snyder.


(sorry)

[DjfunkmasterG]

What makes a bad zombie film?

Easy; Zack Snyder.


(sorry)

No, that would be Steve Miner, Uwe Boll, and James Dudelson.

[MoonSylver]

I assume you're just trying to bust my chops but you've earned a lesson in suspension of disbelief.

http://wildervoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/images-1.jpeg


Vampires are a great example of suspension of disbelief allowing the monster to exceed the human. We don't question the plausibility of vampires in vampire movies. However, if a vampire were immune to sunlight or ate garlic without batting an eye we'd call BS.

Exibit "A":
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IaTUz4pViEY/TFCphfB1FSI/AAAAAAAAB5A/Ujz5h_tLcv4/s320/Edward+sparkling.jpg

;)

[ZombieKeeper]

Another truly bad zombie film is Oasis of the Zombies. Ugg....

[blind2d]

Ooh, I remember that one!
It had almost three good minutes of zed footage (for the vaults).
"Could it be... zombies?!" - Spike the baby dragon

[Darksider18]

Ive watched quite a few zombie films and i can say safely, that i hate the zombie movie cliches. For example:

1. The targetted characters turn on the tv and the only channel available is the news, typically viewing a news reporter not at all affected by the rising of the zeds and saying "do not make any attempt to reach loved ones, stay indoors and REMOVING THE HEAD OR.. DESTROYING THE BRAIN" i hate that line. Lol. Zeds have been around for years, you would think that everyone would already know this.
2. The stereotypical stupid asshole who "takes unwitting control over the group and attempts to get everyone else killed".
3. Staying cooped up in a boarded up house and somehow the zombies STILL get in.
4. That random group member that manages to hide a bite wound long enough to get turned.

[childofgilead]

In regards to 1., what makes you think that zombie movies exist within the zombie movie?

[krakenslayer]

The worst crime is bad characterisation, and you see it again and again and again, especially in low budget zombie movies. Symptoms can include characters that all act and speak the same way to the point that they are only distinguishable by their gender/race/hairstyle; non-military characters who instantly and inexplicably exhibit professional-level marksmanship when the plot requires it despite the complete lack of any indication that they have held a gun before; characters who handle the situation fine for a while only to break down and turn to jelly when the plot requires a victim; over-use of stock characters lifted from other movies (e.g. the "looking out for himself guy" who covers up a bite until the last minute, "kickass heroine" who can do backflips while reading twin UZIs, etc.); protagonists who do not have any kind of character arc over the course of the film (as a rule of thumb, in a narrative your leads should undergo some kind of change through the events of your story, otherwise the story is usually aimless); characters whose entire dialogue consists of constantly shouting, bitching and swearing; and a million other examples.

I can live with having the rules of reality stretched any which way in a horror movie. It doesn't hurt my suspension of disbelief to see zombies run (as much as I dislike that aesthetically), or surviving a headshot, or whatever. It's part of the movie's set up: I accept that such things are possible in the reality of the film's universe. However, make the characters shit and you take away the viewers investment in the world you've created, no matter how believable the rest of it is.

-- -------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------


In regards to 1., what makes you think that zombie movies exist within the zombie movie?

I agree. As much as I like Shaun of the Dead, I prefer it when the characters are not wise to the ways of zombie films at the outset. It's a little too meta. It's not like vampires where the origin is in ancient mythology and you can bullshit that the well-known legends have some basis in fact, the modern flesh eating zombie was made up by Russo and Romeo, and you open a whole can of philosophical worms in-universe if we imagine that George Romeo exists in the world of your zombie film. Also, even if zombie films exist in-universe, why would ordinary characters have any reason to take their rules seriously, or consider them to be anything other than fiction with a superficial similarity to subsequent "real world" events? If confronted by an alien, you wouldn't immediately rush to grab a tape of Indian Love Call just because you had seen Mars Attacks.

[Mike70]

Ive watched quite a few zombie films and i can say safely, that i hate the zombie movie cliches. For example:
4. That random group member that manages to hide a bite wound long enough to get turned.

this! the "hide the bite" device is the most overused and boring thing in zombie movies.

what makes a bad zombie movie? a better question might be what makes a good one since about 97% of them are total garbage.


1. any use of hand held cameras in some lame attempt at "realism."
2. the use of any piece of camera equipment that i can purchase at best buy.
3. any movie that doesn't use professional actors/crew. i have no interest in watching people play what amounts to cowboys and indians with zombies.
4. generic characters that all fit some stereotype - e.g. "the tough chick" character.
5. characters that insist on getting themselves and others killed in futile attempts to reach family members.
6. scripts that play out like an auto-write program on a computer created them.

[Christopher Jon]

I agree. As much as I like Shaun of the Dead, I prefer it when the characters are not wise to the ways of zombie films at the outset.

Most people aren't planning for a zombie apocalypse, are pretty ignorant about and really don't care about zombies. Zombie nerds are a minority.

As a follow up rant to that, when filmmakers do break free of the Romero stereotype and try something different, fan boys throw a fit.

But back on track, bad zombie cliches: I think the big ones have all been mentioned.



Character stereotypes. It's not just zombie films, a lot of films have them.

Characters going from civilian to Kung Fu Special Forces Ninja. Anybody who's shot a gun will tell you it's not as easy as it looks.

The Hiding my bite wounds Character along with the Even though I know somebody who's been bitten will turn into a zombie I'm not gonna let you shoot they guy who was bitten Character.

Single locations are the bread n' butter of low budget film making which is why so many horror films are people trapped in a house. I feel your financial pain. At least try to make it a new or interesting location.

If your film has Police or Military characters, get a consultant. I'll even do it for free. It ruins the experience when the Kung Fu Special Forces Ninjas can't even hold their weapons correctly.

[rongravy]

I'd almost disagree on the whole "you don't know how you'd do it" scenario. Once you got past the fact that all you know and are comfortable with is gizzone, I'd much rather be thrown in with a bunch of HPOTD losers than not.
Make THAT a movie.
At least you guys know better than just to spray a shit ton of bullets at the body...
One love.

[rgc2005]

If your film has Police or Military characters, get a consultant. I'll even do it for free. It ruins the experience when the Kung Fu Special Forces Ninjas can't even hold their weapons correctly.[/INDENT]

I just watched a zombie movie set in Africa. It was great except for the first plane crash scene. The equipment, ranks and discipline was all wrong and I almost turned it off.