Proud of your heritage?

[EvilNed]

I just watched Mississippi Burning for the second time, and it's a damn good film. I checked out the films forums at IMDb.com and I came upon a thread that took up the topic wether or not it was alright for white people to be proud of their heritage.

Of course, everyone would agree that any white man has the right to be proud of his heritage. I mean, most japanese and chinese would probably be proud of their heritage, as most with most africans. But when it comes to white folks, it usually gets more sensitive.

Do you think it's less accepted for white people to be proud of their heritage? What do you think white people have to be proud off?

Me, I have both american and swedish blood in me and I'm as white as they come. But even here in Sweden, it's almost taboo to be proud of your heritage, which I think is really strange. I'm not that proud myself, never really having given it much thought, but I know that in Norway and many other countries people are absolutly thrilled over their country and their achievements. Not so much so in Sweden. Anyone feel anything like this where you come from?

[general tbag]

im a mix of everything, the hienz 57 of people.

[tju1973]

I like many other Americans am of mixed-- very mixed heiritage.

A little Scottish-- a little Irish-- a little English-- mixed with a goodly helping of Prussian German-- crossbreeded with some native American and I think even some Cajun thrown in back in the mid 1800s--

Which means I am proud of being an American.

A good friend I was in the Corps with asked me where my family was from--

I answered "the US"-- See I was born in Las Vegas-- spent some youth in North Las Vegas-- I am a child of a truck driver and a family of dirt farmers..

We aint first class, but we aint white trash either.

SO yes I am proud to be an American--

sounds like a song I heard once...

:)

[zombie04]

I'm damn proud of my heritage. My dad's side is German while my mom's side is Polish and Irish. I'm 100% American seeing as to how I was born in the states and so were my parents. Some of my grandparents were, but not all. I honestly have nothing to be ashamed of because my family background is mostly immigrants who wanted to make a better life for themselves and came here legally and got right to work and turned things around for themselves. I haven't done much myself because I'm not that old, but I'm hoping to change all that soon. Plus the German/Irish background has given me a leg up in drinking. I've gotten sick from it, but never once had a hangover.

[paulannett]

My ancestors were French (Yes, French... keep that quiet! Wait, I'm proud of that) Hugenots, exiled from France for being Protestants. On their way to the good ole US of A, they were seemingly shipwrecked in a little place called Kilkeel, in Ireland (now Northern Ireland).

[erisi236]

Do you think it's less accepted for white people to be proud of their heritage? What do you think white people have to be proud off?



How about inventing everything of any worth over the last 1000 years? :D

Tho' I can never understand "pride" in what you are rather then what you do.

[Arcades057]

Half Irish, half German. Got 2 world wars and a bunch of potatoes and alcohol under my belt, so yeah, I think I can be proud. If the rest of the races can be, then so can we.

Oh, and it was actually the Africans (blacks) who sold the English (whites) slaves in the modern times, so they actually have something to look on themselves for. Then again at one time every German in the world was a Roman slave. Anyone from Italy? I want my reperations!!! :D

[HLS]

I just watched Mississippi Burning for the second time, and it's a damn good film. I checked out the films forums at IMDb.com and I came upon a thread that took up the topic wether or not it was alright for white people to be proud of their heritage.

Of course, everyone would agree that any white man has the right to be proud of his heritage. I mean, most japanese and chinese would probably be proud of their heritage, as most with most africans. But when it comes to white folks, it usually gets more sensitive.

Do you think it's less accepted for white people to be proud of their heritage? What do you think white people have to be proud off?

Me, I have both american and swedish blood in me and I'm as white as they come. But even here in Sweden, it's almost taboo to be proud of your heritage, which I think is really strange. I'm not that proud myself, never really having given it much thought, but I know that in Norway and many other countries people are absolutly thrilled over their country and their achievements. Not so much so in Sweden. Anyone feel anything like this where you come from?

I always wanted to see that movie. I am very proud that I am of German Heritage.
I think pride can go too far. My special friend is also proud of his heritage. He is German and his grandfather (or great grandfather?) was a Nazi. He even has swastikas for tattoos. People overreact to it but he is actually not at all racist. He is a very loving and accepting guy. I think personally you got to expect attitudes from others when you have a swastika for a tattoo. lol

[Arcades057]

When I was a lil-tard I worked in a retirement home in Pompano. I met a lot of... unique people while there, including many WWII veterans. I met a guy named Milton who was a Staff sergeant for Patton. Saw pictures of him with his medals and such. Met a guy who flew P-38s in the Orient. Ugliest plane of the war but he loved it.

Then I met a guy who no one liked. Don't remember his name, either. He would always sit alone during meals, though it never looked like it bothered him. He'd just sit there, dressed like he was going to a wedding, always reading the paper, always respectful to me and the other waiters when he ordered (yeah, I was a waiter at a retirement home when I was 16-17).

One day as I was talking to Milton this guy walked past; Milton started cursing at him and sneering "Nazi. Nazi. Nazi." The other man just smiled and said "And a wonderful day to you, Milton." That's when I noticed the accent. I started talking to that old man every day. Milton and most of the other people there stopped talking to me. But I learned a lot from him.

He showed me a picture of himself standing beneath a very famous sign with another guy. The sign behind him read "Arbeit Macht Frei." There were Death's heads on this guy's lapels. He had been a Colonel in the SS, he said. He told me he had been in Berlin during the final days of the war. He had surrendered to the US after destroying a tank. He claimed after the war that he'd "been in Germany the whole war." He never talked much about anything besides his current life; everything he said to me about WWII was just how happy he had been at the time, how "beautiful" Germany had been, before the war. "It was always morning there," he told me once, and that stayed with me.

Looking at him on the days we talked (usually during the summer when it was raining) I can remember thinking "I should hate this guy." He was definatley a killer. Just looking at him then I could see it. He was a scary looking, tall, white haired guy with grey eyes. Whenever I picture a scary Nazi, his face is what pops into my head. But I couldn't hate him. There was something in him, beyond the evils of the past, that made me respect him. There was something in him that told me, even knowing all of what happened, he'd do nothing different if he was given the chance to do it again. Crazy, sure. But it was the will, the resolve, that made me (in a sick way) admire the man.

It was easy for me, through his words, to understand how an entire nation could be tricked, coerced, and seduced into the devilry that Germany was. It seemed to be "either we do it, or we never do a thing, ever again." God help us all, they did it. And the world is still reeling from it.

Us Germans have few "clean" people to look up to, but call me sick, I admired this old guy. There truly are few people like him in the world.

[Adrenochrome]

im a mix of everything, the hienz 57 of people.
Hello, Brother Mutt!!!
I'm a mix of quite a bit myself.....I did a little research a few years back and was amazed at how sluttly my ancestors were.....:D

[deadwrtr]

I'm proud to be an American (sung by Lee Greenwood... most patriotic song ever!) but it does seem to ruin things to be a white guy. Raising my hand in a white power salute automatically assigns me the racist title, yet Black power is okay. Start a club for only white folks, and the ACLU is tearing your back to shreds chasing you away, however, institutions like the Black Child and Family Institute right up the street from me is a-ok. Fair? No, but it is the way it is.

I'm all for fair play and equal rights for everyone, and yes, I see that racism still exists in the USA. However, it exists on ALL sides, not just on the good old boy (white men) network. Affirmative action is a huge debate in Michigan right now; right or wrong? Who knows. But the cash organizations are raking in to support this legislation (and that of similar orgs. opposing it) is obscene.

My take on it is this: When a group/race/ethnic group demands equal rights, they are exacerbating their tenuous position. However, if they don't demand equal rights, chances are they will never get them. It's the ultimate catch 22.

We're all of one race. The HUMAN race. Be proud of who, what and where you are.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

I think if you look over the history of the world, you'll find that every ethnicity out there has much to be ashamed of. They'll also have a alot to be proud of. Whites, Asians, Africans, etc...all committed some sort of atrocity, either on others or each other. Whites, or Europeons, did it on a global scale, though. And most recently in history. Colonialism, imperialism, in countries that, frankly, were already populated and they had no business being in, except to further their empires and make money. That's a big one; it's hard to get past--it's hard not to be ashamed. I'm French-Welsh, and while I'm not too familiar with Welsh history, Napoleon was a hero and a war monger; an empire builder. It's not something that impresses me. I don't think one can really be too ashamed of their heritige though. Like I said, every group has something they'd rather people didn't know about. And in that case, the whole planet should be ashamed. Or...you can not worry about it too much, be proud of the good your people have done, and try not to do any more damage. That last bit is key.

[Mike70]

very proud of my heritage. both as a someone with roots in the south and as someone of british/irish (no wonder i am so conflicted, my irish half is at war with my british half) descent.

the only thing that i am not proud of is that i am descended from the southern planter class and as such my family was heavily involved in owning and trading slaves. they also fought for the confederacy. i know that personally i bear none of the blame for this - i was born in 1970. it is still something i wish my ancestors hadn't been involved in.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Here's a funny...my biological father is from Alabama, with a history of lynching and slavery in his family. My step-father, who I consider my father-father, was black, and had slaves in his family. Oh, the conflict! :rolleyes: My boyfriend's father is English and his mother is French...argh, whatchagonnado? ;)

[coma]

Arcades057,
As far as the NAzi you met, the term "Banality of Evil" was coined in reference to many of the Nazi faithful who seemed quite normal. Even gacy and Ted Bundy were quite nice, that is, until you were on the buisiness end of their wrath. Sociopaths have no conscience, so they lie without effort or , often, detection.

deadwrtr,
AS far as Black/White Power ideologies. Black Power is (usually, not always)for Pro Black rights/ Justice. White Power is often framed as struggle against "Mongrels". Black Power salute is an Affirmation. White Power salute is a threat. Imo. Excepting the Black Power brand of the 5 % nation. The true belivers are pretty intimidating.

EvilNed,
As far as American blood, there is no such thing. That includes native Americans. Unless by definition of native one would say any settlement of people in an area at least 4/5 thousand years ago. That, I guess would include Indians.

As far as my heritage, I'm Irish. Yes I'm proud of it, but not in any "i'm superior" kind of way. Contributions? John Lennon! (irish descent). Good with language, bad temper! AS far as "White", in AMerica, before the 60s or so, you would be Irish, Italian, Pole, German. Other than the mixing of ethnicities, its easier to do statistics with lump generalizations, also because of Slavery, Most American Blacks have no idea of what tribe/ Counrty they are from. Though Genereally it's West African. So everyone gets lumped in.
I usally only feel great ethnic nationalistic feelings when someone starts giving me bigoted crap for being Irish. Like Applying for a job and being asked if I drink, and Not believed when I say no. Yeah it happens more than you would think. So thats mostly a reaction.
People who feel guilty for being white are opnes who have benifitted from oppression. Me, I grew up in a bad/mixed nieighborhood and didn't dwell in a homogenous neighborhood. So I should feel guilty for my Black neighbor whose Family has more resources than me? Wrong. I have sympathies for the down trodden, but ity's not
my fault
my families fault
my peoples fault (name a country Ireland invaded? Can't think of one?because It never happened. Also, the great majority of American blacks with Irish names got them from MARRAIGE).
And none of that matters anyway. Its utimately as irrelvant as who was the first man with the first plan. If you judge others on there individual merits, it makes no difference what your ancestors did. I dont believe that "sins of the father" biblical junk.

I brought into tht junk in college, then I realized the preachers weree all privelleged types who maybe had reason to feel guilty. Maybe they should feel guilty for the white serf class too. Look around. They are all around you (maybe they are you).

As far as Affirmative Action. I got financial equal Opportunuity grants to go to college. I checked "other" for race, but it doesn't matter, Its often economically based. You broke? Live with your Mom only. Look into it. the $$$you get may send you to school, pay for books, housing. As far as "biased" testing, I learned about war of 1812 from a boring ass teacher, like everyone else. What does that have to do with my families culture?

White/ Black is aconstruct that means nothing. Everyones guilty of something (Childrens crusade, Moorish invasions, Arab Slavers of European Children, African Complicity in Slavery, Genghis Khan, etc)


And WHite Europeans haven't invented everything. Chinese invented Printing, which leads us right to this Message board in a direct line.

[AcesandEights]

Well, I'm proud of my heritage (by blood and citizenship) in a very matter-of-fact manner, that I just grew up with. I am, however, a pretty broad mix of Western European blood. I have a ton of Irish from both sides is my predominant, over 50% and my last name is O'Brien, so identifying with Irish and Irish American herutage just came naturally.

Now, I must point out, that the above is just for fun and is felt mainly out habit and I do consider myself a proud member of the world community and don't go in for people slavishly exulting their heritage or ridiculous levels of nationalism.

Pride in being white is one thing, but humanity is bigger than any single race and people who get caught up in having 'pride' in their race, in my experience, have little pride at all for themselves.

[deadwrtr]

deadwrtr,
AS far as Black/White Power ideologies. Black Power is (usually, not always)for Pro Black rights/ Justice. White Power is often framed as struggle against "Mongrels". Black Power salute is an Affirmation. White Power salute is a threat. Imo. Excepting the Black Power brand of the 5 % nation. The true belivers are pretty intimidating.

My point was the hypocrisy, not the actual salute itself. The idea that the white power salute is a threat, yet the black power salute is not (especially when raised in defiance by members of the now defunct Black Panthers, ) is ludicrous. It's just a shame we can't all get along. Black, white, yellow... If you're an a**hole, it doesn't matter what color you are.

I recently watched a marathon session of Bill O'Reilly famous interviews (it wasn't my fault, I SWEAR!) and he was talking with a couple of organizers of the Million Man march, racist children of Islam, and this black fellow started saying things like, "The time will come when the black man will rise up and punish the white race for its past transgressions..." O'Reilly asked this gentleman if he'd ever killed anyone. He then invited the fellow to kill him, calling his bluff.

Needless to say, the fellow decided not to do the world a favor. I guess my point here is, there are nuts on all sides, but to favor one set of nuts over the other due to history is senseless. Hypocrisy.

[Philly_SWAT]

Do you think it's less accepted for white people to be proud of their heritage? What do you think white people have to be proud off?
Unfortunately, this question stems from our over-litigious society here in the US. We are a sue-happy nation. Everyone is always looking for someone to make the slightest error, and then sue them for it. And if not sue, at least tear that person down in disgrace. On Monday Night Football back in the day, Howard Cosell said of a black player on the field "look at that little monkey run". Howard Cosell was long a champion of civil rights, and in his way helped bring more equality for black people in America. But he was crucified for saying this, and lost his job. What no one knew at the time (because it wasnt reported as widely as his comment) was the fact that the phrase in question was something he called his grandkids, as in "look at that little monkey running around in the yard". Who he was or what he had done throughout his entire life was overlooked because of one misunderstood statement.

To answer the question, I think that self pride is an important aspect of the psyche of a human being, and everyone should have a right to be proud of themselves, as long as they are not blantently doing something horrible, like randomly killing people. But the karma of the white race in general has a lot to answer for. Unquestionably, the white man is far superior to any other race when it comes to inventing instruments to kill other people, guns, bombs, etc. I often wonder why that is, why the race that I belong to has been so interested in and good at creating weapons designed to kill people.

[coma]

Thats why I said "often". And mentioned The 5% nation, a form of Nation of Islam. More of an offshoot. White Man out of a test tube. Crazy Math etc.
I was thinking more of the Black Power salute at the 1968(?) olymplcs, That sort of context. It can be in the context of justice and liberation. Obviously not always. And I don't think the fella on The factor was doing the salute.
But the white power salute isn't a reaction to , say for example, union busting, or brutality, or health care. But, seems to me, exclusively the salute of nazi racist psychopaths, always in the context of violence and terrorism.
Foe example, you wouldn't see a bunch of tired old ladies, sad with their heads down, doing the white power salute in protest gainst the murder of a white youth in a rasist circumstance.

Or, A Black Revolutionary will probably let you be (Probably), where a white power person is more of an actual threat , not just to "minorities", but to "race traitors" of which I am one. They seem to concentrate ONLY on making it better for White Anglo Saxon Protestants (which I am not) by making it very dangerous for everyone else. Black Panthers had schools and free breakfast for kids. Did Christian Identity ever do that? They talk alot but do nothing for anyone, except line their pockets by selling their crap videos. I've had beef with skins and with Hoodies (gangter/Thug types. Thats what we call em here) But never with any of the problack types.At least not yet, I never met the guy on the FActor :)

And I'm Not implying that you are any kind of one of them types.

If you note where I live, you can imagine I am no stranger to anti caucasion bigotry. Unfortuantely economics leaves me stranded in what can be a hostile world, So I am No stranger to actual Reality.

Besides. Bill O'Reilly's like 6 foot 5 or 6. That's huge. I might yell at him across the street and then run away:evil:


Howard Cosell said of a black player on the field "look at that little monkey run". Howard Cosell was long a champion of civil rights, and in his way helped bring more equality for black people in America. But he was crucified for saying this, and lost his job. What no one knew at the time (because it wasnt reported as widely as his comment) was the fact that the phrase in question was something he called his grandkids, as in "look at that little monkey running around in the yard". Who he was or what he had done throughout his entire life was overlooked because of one misunderstood statement.
Cosell is now most remembered for Being the first to adress Ali as Ali and not Cassius Clay. That was a really big deal at the time. And the Toupee. Hah.


Unquestionably, the white man is far superior to any other race when it comes to inventing instruments to kill other people, guns, bombs, etc. I often wonder why that is, why the race that I belong to has been so interested in and good at creating weapons designed to kill people.
But we also invented Jazz and Comic books! oh wait... that was Blacks and Jews respectively. WHoops! Well, Americans created those and Rock and ROll, so I 'll take credit by proxy!

[rightwing401]

Without question I am proud of my heritage. From my mother's side I come from the scottish highlander clans of Cambell and McCloud (yes as in McCloud from that movie). From my father's side, even though it holds absolutely no basis in these modern time, I am decended from a brach of Dutch nobility. Very few other things can invigorate my spirit than when I think of the amazing people that I can trace my lines back to.

Not to get too drawn into this debate, I'll say that everyone has a right to be proud of who they are.

[Danny]

damn my familys been english for the longest time, a little egyptian from way back on my grans side ,like 7 generations back they were call schmits not smiths or something and on my grandads side a liitle bit finland and a little bit carnie, and thats my mums sid eon my dads its west country ,cider drinkin', farmers for as back as people can remember, OO-AAR!:D

[Arcades057]

But the white power salute isn't a reaction to , say for example, union busting, or brutality, or health care. But, seems to me, exclusively the salute of nazi racist psychopaths, always in the context of violence and terrorism.

Well allow me to say this. As we progress toward our goal of "multiculturalism" in the US you will find the idealogy of white power to grow more and more. Not everyone wants to accept others, and while you have to learn to tolerate something or someone, this does not necessarily mean that you have to ACCEPT something or someone. Us whites learn to be more tolerant, while we have BET and Univision. We integrate our colleges and bus our children into ghettos, while there are all black universities. Black Miss America, anyone? Black Music Awards? Chocolate City?

Anyone who doesn't see the hypocrisy in that is either blinded by the "multicultralism" spat at them from every direction, or they really are blind.

[jdog]

i,am very proud of my german heritage. my great gradparents came from germany in the 1920's and the family settled in saskatchewan. my gradparents and parents are also of pure german heritage.

[Eyebiter]

Heinz 57 heritage here. We used to get all kinds of ethnic dishes at holidays. Grandma used to make german chocolate cake, apple strudel, kolace, and these great crunchy "scrolls" in a special iron. Potato soup, quiche, potato pancakes. Good stuff.

When I was growing up the state wasn't very ethnically diverse (mostly fifth generation descendents of European immigrants and Native Americans).

It's amazing the change in the last thirty years. Lutheran relief organizations bring in refugees on a regular basis. Not to mention immigrant labor who work in the meat cutting and processing plants. Guess we have better ethnic resturants as a result.

Downside is rural towns in Minnesota now have gang drivebys and huge increases in their crime rates compared to 20 years ago.

[dmbfanintn]

I can remember thinking "I should hate this guy." He was definatley a killer. Just looking at him then I could see it.

Why?

why SHOULD you hate him, because he was doing what he was ordered to do by his gov't? Using that logic, I should HATE my grandfather for fighting against that guy. I know for a fact that my grandfather was a killer! He fought in 3 wars and served 29 years in the military. But I do not hate him, I love him!!!

I will never understand what makes Americans minds tick the way they do, that allows them to make a stament like I SHOULD hate this guy.

He was a German military officer doing his job, just as my grandfather was doing his job in WW2, Korea and Nam, just as I was doing my job during Gulf War one, just as today's soldiers are doing thier jobs in Iraq right now.

No, you shouldn't hate him, you should sympathize with what he has been FORCED to do over his life.

Do some of you think that the Nazi personell enjoyed what they were doing?

Sure some of them were, but not all, just like some American soldiers are loving blowing away innocent and guilty Iraqis today, but not all of them!!!

As far as being proud of being white, I am as white as they come, I am married to a half black, half hawaiian woman, and I can tell you, that is a heritage that isn't too found of whitey as a whole. White man took land from the Indians and killed most of them, white man stole the islands of Hawaii and killed most of them as well.

I will certainyl admit that the white mans contribution to the world have been great, but there have been plently of especially heinous things that whitey has done over the years that no other "race" can match!!

I think people shopuld be proud of the person they are and the way they live their lives rather than what race or heritage they are. Can you tell yourself that you were a good person who loved unconditionally or are you full of hatred and ill-will towards others?

that is what people should really be proud of. The cover, makes NOT the book, but the content is where the real treasure lies!!!!


Us whites learn to be more tolerant, while we have BET and Univision. We integrate our colleges and bus our children into ghettos, while there are all black universities. Black Miss America, anyone? Black Music Awards? Chocolate City?



I really don't mean to pick on you Arcades, but damn some of your comment are just out there, or maybe I am reading them out of context (see, I left it open to the fact that I may be the idiot here by not comprehending what exactly your trying to say)

I guess you and I will never see I to I on a lot of things, but statements like that is where I see the differences.

OUR busses, OUR Colleges, who exactly makes up the "OUR" demographic?

[Arcades057]

The "our" statement was a simple one. They (meaning blacks, since I'm white) attempt to segregate themselves by making things for "them," such as BET and black colleges. When "we" (meaning whites, since I'm white) attempt to do the same, "we"'re branded as racists.

It's a double-standard, and it sucks.

[coma]

I would suggest that Black Colleges are a remnant of when Blacks were not admitted to Standard Colleges. It's just a fact. Most of them are pretty old. Maybe they continue so they can focus on Subjects that are not repreented in most schools, and are also more sympathetic to their particular issues.
Same with Miss Black America etc., because, until very recently, their brand of beauty was not only ignored, but considered flat out ugly. And it still continues.
And I am a caucasion, but if that means I have to give up almost all of my friends and my wife, and be seperatist, I want to be something else. B;ack American Culture is just an american as european.

And as far as that Nazi, there are footsoldiers and there are Gestapo/SS. Not the same.

BET, whats the big deal? It's 1 channel thats 50 percent Robert Tilton anyway.:elol: , Besides, who else is gonna show the bootie videos?

[AcesandEights]

I don't know, in my experience, the term multiculturalism is thrown around a lot by people in the white power movement and their ilk (no offense, Arcades, but it's the only place I ever see the term bandied about in a negative sense--I am NOT suggesting you are a racist). To be against an expanding awareness and appreciation of other's ways seems...atavistic in a social sense. To not understand peoples desires to have some sense of cultural representation across the broader American landscape, one which is contiguous with their own backgrounds, seems odd to me. This is why, after all, we have German-Americans, Irish-Americans etc. that self-identify so much with their image of what their roots are.

[Arcades057]

My problem with multiculturalism is that it preaches that all cultures are equal. This means that the radical Muslim culture, which values death over life, is equal to our own. It also means that those cultures in which slavery is still allowed are equal to ours. It's a slap in the face to anyone who actually values the things we stand for as a people. I know a little about the subject after talking a few times to my friend's father who teaches multiculturalism at FAU.

Personally I think that the way you can tell just how great a culture really is, is to see just how much discussion and credence they give to others. Go to Saudi Arabia and see if they discuss the high-points about America there.

Dammit, I can't be arsed to go back over this, I'm getting sick. :(

[AcesandEights]

My problem with multiculturalism is that it preaches that all cultures are equal. This means that the radical Muslim culture, which values death over life, is equal to our own. It also means that those cultures in which slavery is still allowed are equal to ours. It's a slap in the face to anyone who actually values the things we stand for as a people.

Well, I can certainly respect that view point. It sounds to me like the whole multiculturalism as a free pass for moral relativism taken to a fairly extreme degree is what irks you, and I can definitely understand that.

Sorry, if this is a bit of a rehash for you, but I do appreciate you taking the time.

[dmbfanintn]

The "our" statement was a simple one. They (meaning blacks, since I'm white) attempt to segregate themselves by making things for "them," such as BET and black colleges. When "we" (meaning whites, since I'm white) attempt to do the same, "we"'re branded as racists.

It's a double-standard, and it sucks.

OK I get where the comment was coming from. It really is hard to sit and discuss things like this when I personally live in such a "multi-racial" household to begin with.

I certainly believe that all are equal, I also believe that the human mind has not reached the point in our eveolution for all to understand that concept.

I agree that the double standards suck!! FO SHO!! But if you believe for one second that blacks are not still discriminated against by white and a much larger rate than the other way around then you are a fool!!!

The white man, in all of his attempts to be "politically correct" and tolerant, and equal opportunity and all that crap, is STILL The most racist "race" on the planet. I believe this continues to come from Whitey's belief that he is in some way supeiror to all other races because of some divine right to rule the world or some crap, and that all other colors of people were put on this earth to serve him.

I see it EVERYDAY!!!! You have NO IDEA how hard it is to love someone of another race, you have no idea how hard day to day life is in a mixed racial marriage! Perhaps that is one reason I feel the way I do towards alot of things, I see the worst in man's bigotry everyday of my life!!!

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

I see it EVERYDAY!!!! You have NO IDEA how hard it is to love someone of another race, you have no idea how hard day to day life is in a mixed racial marriage! Perhaps that is one reason I feel the way I do towards alot of things, I see the worst in man's bigotry everyday of my life!!!

I'm familiar with this, and it is hard--no doubt about that. It makes trivial idiot semi-racist comments seem much worse than they are...meaning, the worst that they are just being ignorant.

[Arcades057]

I see where you're coming from, dmbfantin, and I can only say that racism of any kind sucks. While I won't negate what I just said by saying "but...", I'll only say that living in Delray, a predominantly black area, I've never seen anti-black sentiment; I've seen anti-white sentiment all the time.

Personally in my circle of friends and coworkers there is not a single person who does know the difference between content and context. When I come to work my Haitian drivers will usually greet me as "Oh no, the cracker here!" When I reply "my niggas, what it is?" there is no anger in the words. The words cracker and nigger lose their meaning when they are used without the hatred and vehemence those words represent.

While I understand that some people cannot hear those words without anger (I usually respond with something pretty racist when I hear blacks talking about honky or cracker), it's something that must be learned. To just label anyone who brings up questions about race "ignorant" is, to me, the epitome of ignorance. All it does is exacerbate the real race issues we have, which is removing from blacks' minds that the white man is out to get him, and removing from the minds of whites that blacks are somehow inferior to whites. Once we can erase the hatred that those words bring, we can work on fixing everything else. But so long as there are words that cannot be said by one race or the other, we segregate ourselves in speech. And that's almost as bad as segregation in fact.

[coma]

I hate being called Whiteboy. I take the sayer of it as an enemy who sees me as less than human. It's a threat, to me. If some schmuck at work refers to me as whiteboy, I don't tolerate it. That's a version of that double standard and the version that truly infuriates me. My adrenaline instantly explodes because , as per plenty of past experirience, violent conflict may be immenent. Some may not undertand that ( like most of the more priveledged types I went to colleg with) but I grew up often greatly outnumbered and had to fight way more than I ever wanted to with people who had no beef with me other than being "whiteboy". A friend haas never called me that. Ever. Only d***heads. Only.

I got called that so much growing up I thought it was my name. If people want to defines themselves so narrowly, they should go ahead, but leave me out of it.
Starngely, If one of my friends says something like "whattup Nigga" or "that nigga's (me) cool" I don't mind. In fact that is how you sometimes know a Black or Latin dude doesn't think of you as white, just a person, which is often addressed as "Nigga". Funny how that works. Im that context it is actually race neutral. I don't use the word myself. I learned early that that was not a good (safe) habit to have. I think it's different for the 20 year old of today, but whe n I was younger it was a quick ticket to an ass whuppin by a group of people.
I don't hurl racial invective back, though. I just suggest a little oral copulation, of which they are the givee and I am the recipient. And possibly a flattering description of the target area. ie: An appendage of which I am highly attached to.

Beimg curious or interested in pther races/Cultures is the opposite of igonrance.

[Tri0xin]

But I don't see anything wrong with a little ethnic pride, just as long as you don't get stupid with it.

I can't stand black fools that walk around with an african necklace, talking about the motherland and all this other rubbish, bragging about a place they never been to. Typically, these same people insist on being called "african-american" too, another label I can't stand. What's wrong with just being black or american?

Another thing I can't stand is mexican fools walking around talking about "la raza", which quite literally means "the race." They act like mexicans are pure-blooded decendants of the aztecs or something, which couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, they're a bastard mix of spaniards and native american indian tribes.

Let's get real here. I don't insist on people referring to me as "caucasian american" or any other damn stupid label.

To me, it's all bogus and i'm seeing more and more race baiting coming from minority groups.

Some people act like a white man doesn't have the right to speak freely in this country. Well, I have news for everyone, I don't walk on egg shells for anyone. I will speak my mind and won't "shut up" just for diversity's sake.

[Arcades057]

I learned around 8th grade that you'll either walk around with your head down in life, or your chin up. If you're constantly watching what you say and how you act, you're walking with your head down, always watching where you step (like on eggshells, like Trioxin said). If you'll say anything anywhere, act how you want everywhere, you're walking with your head up. It's a lot easier to see where you're going with your head up.

I found out then that, yeah, you'd have to prove that you can back up your words, so I did. It's been so long now it feels like another life, and I'd never do the things that I did then to prove myself. But I did. And I feel good about it all. :)

[dmbfanintn]

I see where you're coming from, dmbfantin, and I can only say that racism of any kind sucks. While I won't negate what I just said by saying "but...", I'll only say that living in Delray, a predominantly black area, I've never seen anti-black sentiment; I've seen anti-white sentiment all the time.

Personally in my circle of friends and coworkers there is not a single person who does know the difference between content and context. When I come to work my Haitian drivers will usually greet me as "Oh no, the cracker here!" When I reply "my niggas, what it is?" there is no anger in the words. The words cracker and nigger lose their meaning when they are used without the hatred and vehemence those words represent.

While I understand that some people cannot hear those words without anger (I usually respond with something pretty racist when I hear blacks talking about honky or cracker), it's something that must be learned. To just label anyone who brings up questions about race "ignorant" is, to me, the epitome of ignorance. All it does is exacerbate the real race issues we have, which is removing from blacks' minds that the white man is out to get him, and removing from the minds of whites that blacks are somehow inferior to whites. Once we can erase the hatred that those words bring, we can work on fixing everything else. But so long as there are words that cannot be said by one race or the other, we segregate ourselves in speech. And that's almost as bad as segregation in fact.

Excellent post Arcades!!!

One thing, I hope you didn't misconstrue anything I said to think I was calling you ignorant. You are one of the LAST people on this message board I would call ignorant! Of course we don;t always see things the same, but YOU sir are MOST DEFINITELY not ignorant!!!!

If only reality could mirror sentiment!

Rep for you on this one!

[Arcades057]

Thank you, sir, thank you. The characteristic I most admire in individuals is the ability to argue with another at one moment, and then agree and move on without anger in the next.

My posting style likely goes over people's heads in other forums I attend. I'm glad that it does not here. The people here are among the more intelligent folks that I've found on the internet. We're able to argue such bomb subjects as racism, religion, and politics, yet we all are united by the simple fact that we enjoy zombie movies! :D

On the subject, I just watched a show about the Aryan Nations on A&E (or maybe Bravo) the other night. Had to go ZOMG! about a dozen times from laughing so hard. People, if what I saw the other night is any indication to the state of the KKK and other "great" white power organizations, we've nothing to worry about from those fools. You see the Nation of Islam, they're all wearing suits. The Aryan Nations and the Klan, they're all wearing sleeveless metal shirts and speaking in half-retarded fashion. :lol:

[Svengoolie]

I dunno...I guess you could say that, overall, I'm pretty proud of my heritage. But, I'm also a realist...and take that sort of thing pretty much with a grain of salt.

My father is a full-blooded Sicilian who came to this country as an infant in 1938. My mother is a Cajun queen from the bayous of Louisianna.

Now, both of those races or ethnic groups or whatever you wanna call them are pretty much regarded as jokes by the world at large. When people find out you're a Sicilian, you've gotta put up with the stares or jokes about the Mafia. When they find out you're Cajun, you sometimes get the same thing (because of 1981's Southern Comfort), but most of the time people hear the word "Cajun" and they think of Justin Wilson, Adam Sandler as "The Water Boy", or think that you're Creole. Ugh.

While ethnicity adds flavor to our lives, it shouldn't dominate it. We should never forget where we came from, but we should concentrate on where we are and where we are going.

[coma]

"When people find out you're a Sicilian, you've gotta put up with the stares or jokes about the Mafia"
In New York no one cares, beasue there a millions here. Most likely someone would say "me too". Whre I grew up you were either Italian (Mostly Silcian, some North and South Mainland), Puerto Rican or Black. With a few Irish (me) and some german and english and Jews. Most of My friends were Italian and Puerto Rican. Its probably one of the few places in the US where people care more about their ethnicity than being "white". You get ti know a lot of different people wall, but rake a lot of unneccasry crap too.

I hung a Cajun Guy in Florda, when I lived there. I barely understood a word he said, but he was mad cool. That dude could party. I thought my brain would explode.

As far as The NAtion vs. Aryan Brotherhood, at least the Muslims use proper grammer, punctuation in the FInal Call.

[AcesandEights]

On the subject, I just watched a show about the Aryan Nations on A&E (or maybe Bravo) the other night.

I saw most of that the pther night! Excellent piece. I think I caught the re-showing of it as it was on in the post 12am timeslot and I just couldn't watch the whole thing. Of, course, I think the Secret History of the KKK was also on A&E the other day (I originally saw that on the History Channel).

As stupid as those people are, in some circles they're wising up and even if a large portion of them are fools, they are scary goddamn fools.

[general tbag]

the day aliens land on the white house lawn, will be the day we start referring ourselves as humans from planet earth or earthlings.

also for the whole debate going on i suggest reading Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies . it a scientific look at people threw out time and how things turned out they way they did.


I think if you look over the history of the world, you'll find that every ethnicity out there has much to be ashamed of.

what about the native americans and inuit....


.

[AcesandEights]

the day aliens land on the white house lawn, will be the day we start referring ourselves as humans from planet earth or earthlings.

also for the whole debate going on i suggest reading Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies . it a scientific look at people threw out time and how things turned out they way they did.



what about the native americans and inuit....


.

Native Americans? Like the Aztecs? :lol: Proud and awesome culture, but bloody as all fark. Inuits? Yeah, I'm sure their subsistence level of survival made it difficult to have large wars and disputes.

Come on, ancient Native Americans were people too, and not just characters from movies. I ASSURE YOU, they were as capable of being a$$holes and oppressing their neighbors (when societal structures and population stability allowed them to do so) as anyone else.

[general tbag]

Native Americans? Like the Aztecs? :lol: Proud and awesome culture, but bloody as all fark. Inuits? Yeah, I'm sure their subsistence level of survival made it difficult to have large wars and disputes.

Come on, ancient Native Americans were people too, and not just characters from movies. I ASSURE YOU, they were as capable of being a$$holes and oppressing their neighbors (when societal structures and population stability allowed them to do so) as anyone else.

yea they had there disputes with other tribes, but did not discriminate based soley on the color of skin or relegious beliefs.aztec is not native american

[Arcades057]

yea they had there disputes with other tribes, but did not discriminate based soley on the color of skin or relegious beliefs.aztec is not native american

In their time there were no other skin colors. They had no reason or ability to discriminate. They did however discriminate between tribes and killed each other off rather sufficiently without our aid or influence, so to say they are somehow paragons of virtue is laughable. :rolleyes:

There is no race on this earth that has not at one time persecuted another race.

[AcesandEights]

aztec is not native american

Uhhh, in several regards they would be considered Amerinds, dude. Being Mesoamerican and non-cowboy fighting natives, does not preclude them from being Amerinds in any sense of the word.