Batten down the hatches UK folk, its gonna get messy...

[Tricky]

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16107350

Looks like the Eurozone is going to rip itself apart very soon, what this may lead to is anyones guess but even in the short term its going to mean financial disaster for everyone including Britain :eek: Will we see another European war like WW2? Will we see civil war within countries who's economy and governments have collapsed? will we all be fighting each other in the streets for food and water if a real depression kicks in? or will it all just blow over and we'll all go back to normal after a year or so? I've always thought the EU was a bad idea and have always been opposed to it, for the very reason it is now falling apart - We're all very different people with different cultures, work ethics and standards of living, trying to make us all live under one currency and government with one leader and one flag was always going to end up like it has now. As a trade organisation the EU was a good idea, but all the other bullshit that has come later was just wrong.
The one thing thats really got me about this crisis is that despite the fact its been rolling on constantly in the news for months now, I havent seen any televised or written statements from the so called EU president up until now, I would have thought he would have had something to say but apparently not! All the reported dialogue seems to be coming from Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy, David Cameron & George Papandreou :confused:
I'm glad to see the loathesome EU falling apart but I'm just concerned about the consequences of the fallout, mainly how it will affect work, wages and inflation. What do others think? any opinions?

[Legion2213]

The old "EU stops war myth" is just that, a myth. The Warsaw Pact/NATO stand off did a fine job in that regard, no EU required.

There won't be any wars, there will be some serious financial fallout though, and it's been pretty obvious that hard times are coming for a few years. Still, it's a victory for sovereignty and democracy, any government allowing the EU to dictate it's budgets, finance and spending should be put up against a wall and shot.

We in the UK need to start sucking up to our commonwealth and other non-EU trading partners to try and drum up a bit more trade though, I think the EU accounts for about %40 of our export market (as we account for a similar level of theirs).

All that said, this "swivel eyed, xenophobic little Englander" (tm the Guardian) is going to take great pleasure in saying "I told you so" to the cult of EU integration" types when it all goes down the shitter. Especially those types who banged on about the UK getting "left behind" and left out of the glorious thousand year euroreich". Wankers.

-- -------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

And just so there is no confusion: For myself and many other anti EU types, the EU does NOT equal Europe, the nations of Europe or the people of Europe.

The EU was a vanity project, a power grab by unaccountable elites who had no right to push it further than a practical trade agreement between close nations who shared borders.

[Andy]

The eurozone has been a disaster from the very beginning and ive always said so, it was a very badly thought out scheme that was doomed never to work.

We should of got out of it years ago and we would have if not for blair and brown sailing us down the river to line their own pockets.

[Sammich]

All of this can be traced back to the fraudulent and cirminal acts by wall street and the "too big to fail" loan sharks (banks). Iceland should serve as a model to all of the countries that have been raped and pillaged by these money junkies. Let the banks fail, fire the corrupted government that allowed it to happen and then punish those responsible with long jail sentences.

[EvilNed]

Oh, no. How horrible. Maybe we can ask Russia for help?

[Legion2213]

Oh, no. How horrible. Maybe we can ask Russia for help?

well, the mighty EU (supposed counter balance to the US, China and Russia) has already been to China with the begging bowl and been told to fuck off (anybody spot the irony there?), so I suppose the US and Russia are next on the begging letter list. What a pathetic joke they are.

[Tricky]

well, the mighty EU (supposed counter balance to the US, China and Russia) has already been to China with the begging bowl and been told to fuck off (anybody spot the irony there?), so I suppose the US and Russia are next on the begging letter list. What a pathetic joke they are.

Very pathetic indeed, and to think the EU had designs on becoming a superpower to rival the US, China and Russia a few years ago.

[Sammich]

The ONLY economic system that has a chance at surviving long term is one solidly backed by manufacturing as was the U.S. before the mass exodus of job offshoring occured. The current system in the U.S. is being driven by big banks and wall street snake oil salesmen "gaming" the system and wall street is nothing more than the world's largest open air casino. Most of this "gaming" (especially the mortgage backed security fraud) is the equivalent making it legal for a doctor and all of his buddies to take out life insurance policies on his terminally ill patients. Another analogy of what was going on can be seen in the movie "The Producers". It is really unfortunate that the european countries got suckered into this trap.

The biggest issue that I have with many of the occupy wall street protesters is that they are completely mistaken that capitalism is at fault. In capitalism you rise or fall upon your own merits. In other words if the U.S. was truly capitalist then there would be no TARP or quantitative easing, there would be no such thing as "too big to fail" and there would be hundreds if not thousands of criminal money junkies sitting in jail. What has happened is the merger of state and corporate power which is called corporatism, corporate welfare, or more accurately FASCISM. Private profits are kept private, but private losses are forced upon the public by those in the bought and paid for government.

If you don't believe it, look at how the interests of big agriculture, big pharma, movie and music industries, and the already mentioned "too big to fail" financial corporations have metastasized their way into government and been given precedence over the rights and freedoms of us peons.

At the very crux of all of this is allowing a private central bank (the federal reserve) to create money out of nothing, backed by nothing, then loan it to the government at interest. In reality, the moment a dollar comes rolling off of the press there is more owed on it than exists.

Here is a very good explanation:

THE ELEVENTH MARBLE
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/11thmarble.php

[Mike70]

[/COLOR]And just so there is no confusion: For myself and many other anti EU types, the EU does NOT equal Europe, the nations of Europe or the people of Europe.

The EU was a vanity project, a power grab by unaccountable elites who had no right to push it further than a practical trade agreement between close nations who shared borders.

i think you've hit it right off. the EU was a vanity project. a silly ass dream that somehow the entire European continent could morph itself into a version of the United States. where you have a federal european govt. and each of the member countries act like states. that was doomed to fucking failure from jump street and the only people who didn't see it were the morons, over educated beyond their intellect, who were selling this stinking pile of shit as gold nuggets.

the US has its problems but thank fuck i don't live in the EU nor will i ever.

one day, finally Germany and France will get fucking tired of having to find ways of bailing out shithouse countries like Greece and this whole fucking fiasco will come to an end.

-- -------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------


Very pathetic indeed, and to think the EU had designs on becoming a superpower to rival the US, China and Russia a few years ago.

you mean the europe where only the UK, Norway (not a member of the EU), and Denmark have any balls left militarily?

[Tricky]

you mean the europe where only the UK, Norway (not a member of the EU), and Denmark have any balls left militarily?

Good point although UK troops may have balls of steel and are f*cking good at their jobs, but successive goverments have raped the defence budget & we would barely even be able to defend the falklands these days, never mind being committed to full scale operations. I'd love to know what the government plans to fight Iran with after all the bluster and supposedly "drawing up plans" last week, but thats another story.

[Rancid Carcass]

I'd love to know what the government plans to fight Iran with after all the bluster and supposedly "drawing up plans" last week.

We're going back to using the longbow, but because of all the budget cuts we're gonna have to share, one between two.

:shifty:

[Mike70]

We're going back to using the longbow, but because of all the budget cuts we're gonna have to share, one between two.

:shifty:

maybe the MOD can try the old WWII soviet philosophy: issue one rifle to two guys and wait for one to get killed, so the other can use it. :D

[erisi236]

Just from an outsiders perspective, I'm dumbfounded that place like Greece and Italy just sit back and take it as their elected Governments are sacked and replaced by unelected technocrats installed by outside powers. Were these countries invaded and annexed while no one was looking? When did the EU morph into the USSR, or was it always that from the start?

[Legion2213]

Just from an outsiders perspective, I'm dumbfounded that place like Greece and Italy just sit back and take it as their elected Governments are sacked and replaced by unelected technocrats installed by outside powers. Were these countries invaded and annexed while no one was looking? When did the EU morph into the USSR, or was it always that from the start?

Absolutely incredible is it not?

The sooner this disgusting power grab and the people behind it are extinguished the better, and that is for all the people of Europe, especially those who have had their sovereignty usurped by this sinister organisation.

[EvilNed]

maybe the MOD can try the old WWII soviet philosophy: issue one rifle to two guys and wait for one to get killed, so the other can use it. :D

Can people stop spreading that myth around? Fucking Enemy at the Gates.

[Tricky]

Just from an outsiders perspective, I'm dumbfounded that place like Greece and Italy just sit back and take it as their elected Governments are sacked and replaced by unelected technocrats installed by outside powers. Were these countries invaded and annexed while no one was looking? When did the EU morph into the USSR, or was it always that from the start?

Its sad to see countries like Greece rolling over and taking it like that, I bet their Spartan ancestors are rolling in their graves! Its the same in Britain though, everyone grumbles about the EU and criticism of it fills column space in the papers daily, yet nobody in power from one government to the next will dare challenge it, almost like it has some kind of sinister hold over all politicians. As far as I know the EU hasnt started killing off its opponents so I don't know why!

[Andy]

I Think the "hold" the EU has over politicians has alot more to do with backhanders than fear or anything else, you take blair for example.. the man most responsible for sailing our country down the EU river, he is well on his way to being a billionaire now. You look at Cameron, when he was in opposition he was very vocal in his disgust at the way we had been railroaded into the EU and made it clear he would do everything he could to pull us out, now that he is PM he's completely uturned and even refused to back the conservative MP's who did call for a referendum. I bet you alot of EU money is going into his personal pockets now.

Its unfortunately how the world works.

[Andy]

Im actually the proudest ive been of david cameron since the election today. He has taken a great step for the UK.

No doubt if the reds had won the last election instead (god forbid) and brown or millibland where still in power, we would have been 1 very large step further into the european reich.

Well done cameron :D

[Mike70]

Can people stop spreading that myth around? Fucking Enemy at the Gates.

i was kidding Ned. thus the grin at the end of my sentence.

sort of like if i'd said that the lambda on spartan hoplons stood for "laid back."

[Tricky]

Cameron made a good choice and despite the loud shouting in protest by europhiles, there seems to be a lot of support for his decision from across the political spectrum. Europe (and certain news channels) are spouting that Cameron is now very isolated and alone, but I beg to differ because as far as this decision goes he is definitely not isolated among his own people which is what counts, and is what should have counted over the past 20-30 years when Britains powers and authority were just handed over to Europe by various governments. He isnt as anti-EU as I'd like and in no way a Churchill like figure, but at least he's actually stood up for Britain today which he deserves credit for. Europe will still trade with us despite this, the Germans will want us to carry on buying all their shiny BMW & Mercedes cars, the French will still want to flog us Peugeots, Citreons and Renaults by the thousand, and we will still export all our produce both within the EU and outside of it!

[Andy]

I have a facebook page dedicated to this topic, id really appreciate the member numbers if some of you guys could sign up.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/EuroSkeptics/158430947532368

[Mike70]

Im actually the proudest ive been of david cameron since the election today. He has taken a great step for the UK.

No doubt if the reds had won the last election instead (god forbid) and brown or millibland where still in power, we would have been 1 very large step further into the european reich.

Well done cameron :D

is this the story you are on about, andy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16115373

interesting and i'm not sure i get the whining from some of the papers both inside the UK and outside. the UK doesn't use the friggin' euro, so why should the UK be paying to buck it up???

i've always thought the main problem with the euro was how can a currency that isn't backed up by a single state's govt. have any long term stability or value? you have countries in the eurozone with giant economies and countries that are two steps away from the third world (OK, that might be an overstatement but i think you can see my point). how can such a mishmash ever succeed?

[Legion2213]

Major clusterfuck avoided here, well done Prime Minister.

Gonna be fun watching these EU leaders sell the idea that their national budgets will be inspected and approved by the EU before their own national Parliaments and MP's have seen them, a lot of countries will (by law) have to go to the ballot box in referendums over this. Also be interesting to see how the fuck the EU is going to punish nations that are already broke with more fines if they don't tow the line.

The Guardian editorials are spitting blood about Cameron not pissing our sovereignty away to the anti-democratic EU vanity project...fucking hilarious.

Oh, and they keep banging on about how we will be all "isolated" when the actual reality is that our relationship with Europe is no different than it was 48 hours ago...we still account for a huge amount of their import and export trade and we will continue to do so - Funny how these pro-EU types need to peddle fear and horror stories to try and get people on board...almost like they don't really have anything of real value to tempt us in...

As for the ordinary European man on the street, if he is from southern Europe he will see levels of austerity that he couldn't imagine in years to come imposed on him by technocrats in Brussels. Poor bastards, I genuinely feel for them because my hatred for the EU is for the institution itself, not the ordinary European folks who are just like the rest of us.

[Mike70]

Gonna be fun watching these EU leaders sell the idea that their national budgets will be inspected and approved by the EU before their own national Parliaments and MP's have seen them, a lot of countries will (by law) have to go to the ballot box in referendums over this.

if the past is any predictor of the future, the EU will simply ask for vote after vote until it gets the result it wants. it will also resort to all manner of scare tactics and propaganda to convince the average person on the street to back this.

this whole thing is turning into a complete and total clusterfuck. matter of fact it's beyond a clusterfuck. it's a macrocosmfuck of galactic proportions.

again, i'm glad to live in north america.

[Legion2213]

I think the European electorate are getting a bit bored of fear mongering EU politicos to be honest. I'm hopefull that the Eucrats will recieve some deeply unpleasnt kicks to the face from individual European nations over the next several months.

As for us British, our island mentality has seen us through once again...the pro-eu cheerleaders can call us little englanders and all the other nasty names they want, fact is we will exert a greater control over our own destiny than most of our European nieghbours in the long run. :)

(now if we were offered a slot as that 51st state people often refer to, I might have to think about it). ;)

[Sammich]

All that is happening right now is the equivalent of paying off a credit card by putting it on a new credit card. It is just delaying the inevitable collapse. Until the crooks that caused this mess have all of their assetts seized and they are put in jail, it will just happen again. If you saw what happened with MF Global, it is just the beginning. These psychopathic money junkies are so well connected that they know they will get off scott free like John Corzine. All roads lead back to Goldman Sachs.

[Mike70]

(now if we were offered a slot as that 51st state people often refer to, I might have to think about it). ;)

:lol:

then you'd have to deal with our bullshit as well as that of europe.

seriously though, i wouldn't mind seeing the US, Canada, and the UK throw their lot in together. call it a sort of north atlantic union or whatever. won't ever frickin' happen but it still makes for an interesting "what if" discussion.

[shootemindehead]

All that is happening right now is the equivalent of paying off a credit card by putting it on a new credit card. It is just delaying the inevitable collapse. Until the crooks that caused this mess have all of their assetts seized and they are put in jail, it will just happen again. If you saw what happened with MF Global, it is just the beginning. These psychopathic money junkies are so well connected that they know they will get off scott free like John Corzine. All roads lead back to Goldman Sachs.

Yep.

The European project probably would have worked out relatively fine, if various banking sectors had been properly regulated and their dealings accounted for in the first place. Deregulation of these entities was one of the most irresponsible actions that was ever allowed.

[Tricky]

Yep.

The European project probably would have worked out relatively fine, if various banking sectors had been properly regulated and their dealings accounted for in the first place. Deregulation of these entities was one of the most irresponsible actions that was ever allowed.

Indeed, they were in so much of a rush to bring in the Euro and "unite" its members that all sensible rules & regulations were brushed aside, then they let countries like Greece, Spain, Latvia, Bulgaria etc in whose economies were bad enough beforehand, and those countries have spent the money contributed by other EU members like it was going out of fashion leading to where we are now. I hated Gordon Brown but the one good thing he did was keep us out of the Euro currency, his reasons for doing so were not to protect Britains interests but just to spite his arch rival Tony Blair, but regardless it kept us out of it which now leaves the UK in a position to defend its own interests outside of the collapsing house of cards.
Also has anyone else noticed what a spiteful, childish horrible little man the French leader Nicholas Sarkozy is? Its always been apparent but his dealing with Britain throughout this Euro crisis have really highlighted it. He'd do well to remember that a hell of a lot of British (and American) blood was spilt to free his country from the last European takeover bid...

[Bad Ronald]

I see this as a hidden in plain sight move by the various "aristocratic mafia" (also known as political parties or movements)
to hopefully secure their increasingly shaky futures in the troubled time we have been in for 5 years so far.

That's jumping to a conclusion that you do not buy the outright fabrication of the media meme that a recovery began in 09 June.

Rage video interlude nsfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k4xPUZRdC0

THEY will say anything but not until it's been focus groped 30 ways until Sunday!
If you haven't been paying attention they take turns winning the polls and things never EVER get better : you will not win an office unless you are a "made man" a pre-selected puppet yes-man,IE sociopath (How else can you justify continually rewarding FAILURE with success,BTW has Tony Blair achieved sainthood yet?)

Ask yourself is it just and right that a man who steals a carton of fags or a turkey from a shoppe get's a 5 years sentence?While a Jon Corzine is only called before some stupid committee (with guarantees of many more FUTURE COMMITTEES which = more $ distributed to the ruling class,to investigate the crimes the original committee should have taken care of?) of his "ex gov't BUDDIES" and former business colleagues and associates for pulling the Tommyknockers "make my brother disappear trick" with who knows how many billion?

http://psychopathyandsociopathy.blogspot.com/2010/09/on-political-ponerology-part-one.html
note I do not see this as only a GENETIC flaw in humans,some among us are raised from birth to think this type of
existence is all "okey dokey mighty fine toe the line,toe the line"

Things can/will get better by voting for these serpents?
I think not,not until ordinary people regardless of education or blue blood heritage form new coalitions and legislative or judicial bonds.In other words things won't change until people of all stripes throw all the btards out,take the pitchforks out of the barn and light a torch or gather in the 100's of thousands and cry out the world famous "STOP THE LOOTING AND START PROSECUTING"

Rah Rah Cameron all you want this is just a blatant reach around move to protect the bankers of "THE CITY"
(one of several global CENTRAL financial Sodom and Gommorah's) from oncoming taxes and fees on all Eurozone transactions.
http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=198756

It's a WIN!Increasing victory gin ration from 150 ML to 75ML.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16104089

End Transmission (apologies for formatting site only gave me a 3 line make a post window)

[Bad Ronald]

British told to pack their bags.
Not good.

EMERGENCY evacuation plans for Brits living in Spain and Portugal are being drawn up

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/12/19/evacuation-plan-for-brits-in-spain-amid-warning-euro-collapse-coud-leave-them-stranded-115875-23645721/

[Publius]

The plans are being compared to the evacuation of British expats from Lebanon during the 2006 war with Israel. I'm sure the comparison to wartime Lebanon is heartening for Spain and Portugal.