TWD 2x05 "Chupacabra" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

Ready. Set. Go!

First though, a reminder for everyone about spoilers - please keep all episode spoilers in their respective episode discussion threads - and remember, even a seemingly innocuous sentence like "can you believe what [character] did?!" outside of an episode discussion thread can constitute a spoiler (knowledge of previous episodes, context, and active imagination can easily ruin a surprise moment after a sentence like that).

Indeed, any information that you only gain from watching the episode, is a spoiler outside of these individual threads.

Finally - regarding next episode teasers - if discussing that stuff, please use SPOILER TAGS. Those who download the show, and us Brits who watch it on FXUK five days after it airs in the USA, don't get to see the teaser footage during the credits that you guys do on AMC.

Many thanks for your co-operation, folks. Now enjoy the episode 2x05 thread! :)

[AcesandEights]

Kind of another slow, foundation-laying episode, but some cool (if a tad bit overdone) bits and pieces.

[babomb]

I agree. Kind of slow, but we know next weeks episode has to be great due to the end of this one.

[Wyldwraith]

In a way I agree Aces,
In another way, however, I think this episode had enough "meat on the bone" to balance out the interpersonal dialog and interactions. As a hallucination, Merle's appearance was very interesting and shone a light into the shadowy corners of Daryl's thoughts and emotions. The end of the episode though....as someone who hasn't read the comics I still saw that coming since Rick offered to give Herschel and his people more space by moving down next to the barn and Herschel too-casually nixxed that idea. The actor playing Herschel did a wonderful job of creating a momentary and significant break in his character's usually very even and thoughtful demeanor and manner of speaking.

The Andrea shooting Daryl thing was excessive though. I had too hard a time believe that there wasn't a split-second that Daryl's face wasn't obscured by the sun's glare as he continued his forward motion. Not saying it couldn't happen, but after Carl's recent shooting it simply felt like an event contrived to justify Andrea backing off about carrying a gun. Whatever your take on that scene, I didn't find it enjoyable. Got a lot more out of Daryl being suddenly thrust into a life-or-death-or-infection situation as he came out of the hallucination just as the Walker was working out how to sink its teeth into him.

All in all, I liked it better than the previous episode...but I agree that the plot pacing needs to pick up. I'm hoping Glenn's discovery and the resulting explanation (which I'm dying to see and hear) will do just that. Finally, I am BEYOND OVER the Sophia thing. Shane's right. When he made that comment about back when they were cops looking for a missing child they had 72 hours and then they were looking for a body..."and that's before all this" he pointedly remarked.

A mixed episode, which I will reserve complete judgment on until I see how Glenn handles his discovery.

[Moon Knight]

Another good episode in my book.

The opening flashback scene was nice and it did a good job of displaying how things quickly things fell apart and why the city looked so beat down and broken.

Of course the scenes with Daryl played out really well. From his accident to his discovery of the zombie gnawing at his feet, it was all pretty good stuff. I just hope he doesn't really buy into what mind Meryl was saying and his character takes a turn for the worse.

The Sophia nonsense sadly continues but at least Glenn discovered the secret of the barn! Can't wait for next week!

[erisi236]

They're never going to find that kid are they.

[FunkyPertwee]

How long before Daryl starts getting some from Carol?

[Sammich]

The Daryl scene looked like it was from Deliverance.

[Ragnarr]

To the tune of Jonti Picking's "Crabs" www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEYUd0rtXpM

*pitchpipe*

"I've got a barn full of zombies!
I'm gonna keep them locked up tight, oh yes
I'm too chicken to shoot them in the head!
Don't tell anyone, it'll spoil the fun
So no sexin's in the hay."

[bassman]

Preview for 206 "Secrets":

UEv8ank3FIc

So I guess in the show Shane teaches Andrea how to become a marksman?

[erisi236]

I'm also really hating Andrea, she's so worthless. Beyond the Daryl thing in of it self, look what else was going on there, 3 of the group were RIGHT THERE in front, she was shooting AT THEIR BACKS. I can't believe Shane at least didn't blast her teeth in, shove a gun in her face and give a speech like Peter.

"Never point a gun at anyone, scary isn't it?"

[acealive1]

great episode......but glenn finding out about the barn coulda been avoided had she just let him tear off a piece of ass somewhere else.

[kidgloves]

Really enjoyed this episode. Directed by Guy Ferland who also directed TS-19. Whoevers got the special edition should listen to the commentary on TS-19 if they haven't. Ferland sounds like he loves working on this show and ,as it does with Ernest Dickerson, i think it really shows.
Overall im really enjoying this season and the slow pace. Yeah sure it has some problems but im choosing to not to overanalyze it too much. You have to let things go with tv shows as a lot of the problems are down to time and budget and we all know what happened behind the scenes with this one.
This show does tend to explain a lot of the questions i have in the next episode but im still confused by Ricks gun and why didn't Daryl go back to the anandoned house instead of randomly looking in the woods again? Are these the plotholes and bad writing that i see referred to on other sites. Maybe its been explained and i missed it?
I know the Sophia storyline is driving people mad including myself but look at it this way. They have made it clear they are taking their time and with Carl still recuperating what would the other characters be doing? You can only have so many trips into town, help out at the farm for so long and argue so much. At least they are going into the woods where things can happen to characters like Daryl in this episode. Michael Rooker was outstanding as usual. There was a certain softness to his menace but the guy was Merle as we briefly knew him. I don't think we'll see him back as a living character so it would be fine with me if he makes an occasional appearance as guidance/conscience for Daryl.

Btw does anyone else think Sophia might be in the barn? We have 2 episodes left before the mid season break and that would be quite a good place to leave people shocked. I know one thing for certain. Maggie has got a hell of a lot of explaining to do next episode so maybe we can find out something about Glen because we still don't know much about him.

[AcesandEights]

Btw does anyone else think Sophia might be in the barn? We have 2 episodes left before the mid season break and that would be quite a good place to leave people shocked.

That'd be a shocker, alright! I don't think they'll go there, but that'd be damned cold if they did, especially since the writers could stand to be a bit more ruthless. :evil:

[kidgloves]

That'd be a shocker, alright! I don't think they'll go there, but that'd be damned cold if they did especially since the writers need to be a bit more ruthless. :evil:

They shot a kid in the head in the 1st scene in the pilot, so why not :evil: ? I think finding her alive would be such an anti climax seeing as they have spent so much time on it. The storyline has to lead to something meaningful because it seems to be an irritating plot device to a lot of people.

[AcesandEights]

My original take, that I later revised after realizing it would probably be saved till the end of the season was that she might be tied up with them somehow...

(comic book spoiler)
Finding the prison.
But I don't think that'll happen. The timing just isn't quite right. So I'm not sure where they're going with this Sophia thing now, but I agree that due to viewer investment & the dictates of TV a definitive resolution (and probably a somewhat positive one) is forthcoming.

[kidgloves]

My original take, that I later revised after realizing it would probably be saved till the end of the season was that she might be tied up with them somehow...

(comic book spoiler)
Finding the prison.
But I don't think that'll happen. The timing just isn't quite right. So I'm not sure where they're going with this Sophia thing now, but I agree that due to viewer investment & the dictates of TV a definitive resolution (and probably a somewhat positive one) is forthcoming.

In reference to the location in your spolier, i had a quick look at the comics today and they reach that place at the end of the 2nd trade paperback. Thats 12 issues. No wonder they are slowing it down.

[Neil]

One thing that bugged me was Daryl didn't seem the least bit worried abuot checking himself after the zombie attacking him woke him up. I know I'd be checking my lets even for the smallest nibbe/love bite!

[DjfunkmasterG]

BARN of the DEAD.... Jesus, can they ruin this show anymore than they already have?

And trust me when I say I am not simply referring to the barn scene, it was the whole fuckin Episode...

Gettin' tired of Andrea's attitude and chip on her shoulder... now she wants to be the big fuckin' hero and try and save the day and what does this dumb bitch do...

She shoots the most awesome character on the f*ckin' show...

Oh boy... now ya got me started..., Then, Glen is playing middle school flirt with the farmer's daughter... Rick and Shane are having a dick measuring contest, and now they interject politics by having the racist hillbilly pretty much call all democrats... pussies.

Jesus F*cking Christ, what are they doing to that show...

[bassman]

Jesus Fucking Christ, what are they doing to that show...

Following the source material, basically.:rockbrow:

[DjfunkmasterG]

not by a longshot

[kidgloves]

not by a longshot

Have you read it then Gary?

[DjfunkmasterG]

Have you read it then Gary?

The comics... yes, of course.

I am talking about the way they're going with it, this isn't the horror show it started out as, it is a friggin' soap opera.

[kidgloves]

I see this complaint mainly at the imdb boards and i just don't buy it. Whats so soap opera-ish about it?

[AcesandEights]

As I said in the shout box a few hours ago: it's the same with the comics, some people don't like or want the character-driven stuff. Matter of taste, but if you eject all character concerns it becomes a schlockfest, while too much leads to a roll-your-eyes marathon for a lot of folks.

[bassman]

That would be like Night without Ben and Cooper's conflict, Dawn without the bikers, and Day without the soldier/scientist conflict. It would be a Fulci/Boll/Snyder/Anderson film..... :p

[AcesandEights]

That would be like Night without Ben and Cooper's conflict, Dawn without the bikers, and Day without the soldier/scientist conflict. It would be a Fulci/Boll/Snyder/Anderson film..... :p

Oh, I understand and agree. That said, they need to ratchet the tension back up now and again. We definitely got some of that, in my opinion, with Daryl this week and the reveal of the barn, but I'd like to see it stepped back up, which I'm confident will happen in the second half of this season.

[mpokera]

One thing that bugged me was Daryl didn't seem the least bit worried abuot checking himself after the zombie attacking him woke him up. I know I'd be checking my lets even for the smallest nibbe/love bite!

my take on this was that he was pretty sure he hadnt been bitten, and he may also have figured there was nothing that could be done if he was anyway. If he is infected it isnt like he would just suddenly change, he would have a time of getting sicker like Jim did. I imagine a man like Daryl would quietly take himself off into the woods before shooting himself if he realized he was infected with no hope. Now if it were me I am with you, I would be scrubbing every inch of myself whenever I had an encounter with a zombie, just as soon as I had the chance.

[babomb]

now they interject politics by having the racist hillbilly pretty much call all democrats... pussies. That's just good character development. I don't think the reason they included that was to interject politics, they're just trying to make the depth of the character more realistic. Guys like Merle really are like that. They hate liberal democrats and think they're commie-pinkos that are trying to destroy the American way of life by chipping away at constitutional rights such as the 2nd amendment.

[Neil]

BARN of the DEAD.... Jesus, can they ruin this show anymore than they already have?

And trust me when I say I am not simply referring to the barn scene, it was the whole fuckin Episode...

Gettin' tired of Andrea's attitude and chip on her shoulder... now she wants to be the big fuckin' hero and try and save the day and what does this dumb bitch do...

She shoots the most awesome character on the f*ckin' show...

Oh boy... now ya got me started..., Then, Glen is playing middle school flirt with the farmer's daughter... Rick and Shane are having a dick measuring contest, and now they interject politics by having the racist hillbilly pretty much call all democrats... pussies.

Jesus F*cking Christ, what are they doing to that show...

You really are a glass-half-empty kinda guy? - Yes there are been niggles that have annoyed me, but generally I'm really enjoying it. And there's certainly been enough good aspects to make up for any poor ones.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I am not saying I don't want to see good development of characters, but seriously a lot of the things these guys have done should have gotten them killed, just like Herschel stated... it's a surprise they have survived this long.

Some elements of the show are great, but some of it is bad. Even worse than Romero's latest crap fest (Survival). I have read the comics and while I understand this show is based on, I seriously believe... very loosely based on, it is getting a little too off base from episode to episode.

We're 5 episodes into Season 5, with 8 to go, and it is just running very uneven.

[bassman]

I am not saying I don't want to see good development of characters, but seriously a lot of the things these guys have done should have gotten them killed, just like Herschel stated... it's a surprise they have survived this long.

That's a central theme throughout the entire comic series. Rick always questioning whether his decisions are the best for the group. He often makes decisions that seem like the best at the time, but often cause more problems, but the issue is that he's the only one with the balls to stand up and be a leader. The show has followed that very closely, imo. Which, btw, is also a very common theme in Romero's films. There are often stupid mistakes. That's the entire drama of the series - learning to adapt in a new world.

As i've said before on this board and many others - If the "soap opera" drama is too much for you THIS early in the story, you might as well give it up now because TWD only goes deeper into the human drama, emotions, connections, and conditions. Large portions of the story having absolutely nothing to do with zombies. This is a story about people.

[Cykotic]

So, I've just finished watching this episode and all i can say is... What the hell?

Don't get me wrong, it was a good episode (in a very good season) and the opening was exactly what I wanted to see, but that last sequence of the episode was just..... what?. Aside from that Daryl was once again on top form.

[childofgilead]

The irony is that both sides of the argument are right. I have every single trade paperback of the comic and I've preordered number 15. I've read them each..conservatively..5 times apiece, at least up through 8, while I was working night shift in a call center.

Now I can be honest with myself and admit that Kirkman is NOT the end all be all. He uses ALOT of hackneyed dialogue in his stories, but I've still maintained an interest. The trade paperbacks are always a decent read, even if I do sometimes spoil myself by reading a few individual issues before the TPBs come out.

And when I heard that they were making a series, I was jonesed, especially when I heard Darabont's name being thrown around, because I knew what he did with The Mist and I figured he'd be able to pare it down and turn it into a lean and mean hotrod.

But there are just some serious issues for me this season. I can't really nail it down, I honestly wish I could. Maybe being able to watch them all back to back will help. Maybe it's just the hugely intrusive advertising AMC does during the breaks. Seriously, they have more commercial breaks for any network I've ever seen.

Unevenness was mentioned earlier. I think that's the crux of the problem. In the comics, there was alot of things going down on their way to their destination. Time passed. We didn't have to see it, it was mentioned in passing and we filled in the blanks ourselves. Now on the show, they're showing us the misadventures at the farm. And it's getting old. The Sophia storyline isn't in the comics. I didn't mind the idea, I thought it added tension.

But at this point it's just a practice in futility. I really can't see them killing the character off because there would be no reason in it and she plays a part, however small, in the comic series. So this thing is really being drawn out way too long.

And the little scene with Rick and Shane in the woods. That was a good scene, it reminded me right away of them in the squad car in the first episode. They really seemed like friends, and seeing them disagree really worked for me.

However, Rick being the leader? I can't see that. He's done nothing yet, shown no real drive this season. And I think that's simply because of the waiting we're being forced to endure at the homestead. Andrea's characterization is so far off from the comics it's mindblowing. And again, I wouldn't mind, if it were done well. But it seems like they're just trying to make her this fragile little thing so she either blossom into a hardnosed flat out killer or continue to be pressed down by whatever screwup she manages to get herself into week after week. Not only is it boring, it's inappropriate. You can tell a story, a GOOD story, with brevity. I'm starting to wonder if this whole extended season is actually detrimental to the series as a whole. Before, it was pared down and lean, nothing really was wasted in progressing the story.

Now, I don't mind the character building. That's what made the comic interesting to me, when they're crammed together in the RV or coming up with ways to thin the walkers from the fence that protects them, those are the moments that I loved, because they'd never been captured before in zombie-dom. The mind crushing BOREDOM of survival.

I dunno..I know this isn't really the most well worded post, it's just really been bothering me the past few days. I enjoy the comic, even though it has it's flaws. Hell, I even bought the Rise of The Governor paperback because I wanted to give it a chance.

I'm not saying that I have to have gore and zombie shenanigans to keep me entertained. But I DO need to feel like the actions that characters make are making a difference, that they're either pissing each other off or helping each other up out of the dirt.

I hope that this was the lesson Andrea needed to learn to get off of her high horse. I hope that Dale will stop acting like a kid who pissed off his mom and is trying to get back into her good graces. I hope that Rick takes the situation coming up and uses it and BUILDS on it to become the leader that he is from the comic.

[Zombie Snack]

How are the ratings holding up? looks like they are staying about the same so I guess people are still watching.

[AcesandEights]

I dunno..I know this isn't really the most well worded post, it's just really been bothering me the past few days.
No, no dude--you hit a lot of points other people seem to feel, as well. Especially with regards to Andrea, uneven storytelling and the need for brevity on occasion.


I even bought the Rise of The Governor paperback because I wanted to give it a chance.
How was it, without spoilers?

-- -------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------


How are the ratings holding up? looks like they are staying about the same so I guess people are still watching.

Been holding up pretty well, but I didn't check this last Sunday nights' numbers. Kidgloves has kindly been posting updates on them here (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?17945-Ratings-hit!/page3).

Looks like the numbers are doing great so far.

[kidgloves]

The core audience seems to be 6m which is outstanding for a network like AMC. Mad Men gets less than half that. The parent company of AMC have just posted their financial results and they were higher than expected even without Mad Men this year.

[Thorn]

I see this complaint mainly at the imdb boards and i just don't buy it. Whats so soap opera-ish about it?

Even if it IS soap operatic so are the comics. Comic books are essentially soap operas they follow the same basic guidelines and have the same sort of restrictions. You follow the lives of the same characters enough and you are going to see the same stuff over and over. The X-Men were not a soap opera? PLEASE. They certainly were and remain so to this day, comics are all about the relationships, building a team, breaking it down, giving them challenges, and having them overcome them. The shock ending, the cliff hanger, the big reveal, the hero, the villain, the anti hero.

Guys... I have bad news for you this is the comic.

I loved the episode. It was paced fine for me, I don't need constant zombie battles. I don't need non stop action, my mind can appreciate more than that in fact it craves more than that. What set THIS zombie comic apart from the others was exactly that... amazing character development and focus.

Remember the montage in Dawn where they loot the bank, take giant loafs of bread, and wear fur coats? That is what this is. It is down time for character development.

[MikePizzoff]

great episode......but glenn finding out about the barn coulda been avoided had she just let him tear off a piece of ass somewhere else.

I think you missed a small bit of the last scene. Maggie didn't read Glenn's note until after dinner, when Glenn had already made his way to the barn.


BARN of the DEAD.... Jesus, can they ruin this show anymore than they already have?

And trust me when I say I am not simply referring to the barn scene, it was the whole fuckin Episode...

Gettin' tired of Andrea's attitude and chip on her shoulder... now she wants to be the big fuckin' hero and try and save the day and what does this dumb bitch do...

She shoots the most awesome character on the f*ckin' show...

Oh boy... now ya got me started..., Then, Glen is playing middle school flirt with the farmer's daughter... Rick and Shane are having a dick measuring contest, and now they interject politics by having the racist hillbilly pretty much call all democrats... pussies.

Jesus F*cking Christ, what are they doing to that show...

Huh??? The barn was a big turning point in the comic; it isn't an element simply added in by some random AMC producer.

Andrea's attitude wasn't in the comic, I'll give you that, but she was in a severe state of depression and distancing herself from the group, much like how she's being portrayed in the show.

Glen and Maggie are pretty much exactly the same as in the comic.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you talk about Rick & Shane having a dick measuring contest, so I can't interject that.

Finally, what would you expect a racist redneck to call democrats? I don't think they're trying to bring politics into this at all; just giving us some more insight into how terrible Merle is (character development).

[Ragnarr]

I doubt they'd have Sophia killed off, but if they did, I wouldn't think they'd have her staggering about in the barn. I do agree however that someone needs to give Andrea a serious b-slap discussion before she does something completly stupid again. What is it they say about blondes again? Oh yeah, durp!

[Sammich]

Andrea needs to undergo hysterical paroxysm treatment for female hysteria, as she is exhibiting several of the main symptoms including nervousness, irritability and a tendency to cause trouble.

I learned about this on wikipedia so it must be true.

[darth los]

Andrea needs to undergo hysterical paroxysm treatment for female hysteria, as she is exhibiting several of the main symptoms including nervousness, irritability and a tendency to cause trouble.

I learned about this on wikipedia so it must be true.

I thought that was called a period? :confused:

:cool:

[Wyldwraith]

I'll just say,
WTH? I know its probably an honored convention of the comics, but Herschel is pulling a Muldoon in his barn? WHY? It didn't make sense to me in Survival, and it doesn't make a lick of sense here. I could buy, just barely, the idea of not wanting to put down a freshly reanimated loved one who just died traumatically (similar to Morgan's issue with his undead wife)...but when they get to the point where the rot/decay is visually all-encompassing, how can anyone retain an emotional connection to a rotting mobile disease-factory that wants to EAT THEM?

My grandfather passed away after having first won numerous battles against lung cancer before it finally won the war. I love my grandfather dearly, dead or not, but I tell you honestly that if his spirit could return from the dead for one breath as his rotten corpse staggered towards me, he would say "SHOOT THAT ROTTING SUMBITCH!" or something equally matter-of-fact and straight to the point. I know this, know it to be incontravertably true, so I would shoot him in the head and send his empty physical shell back to the same rest his spirit currently enjoys. NOT leave it wandering around on a chain connected to a stake pounded in the ground or staggering around in some securable structure. It would be making a mockery of the man he was, and quite simply, I would die before doing that.

I just don't get how the same train of thought wouldn't come to most people. Ie: That anyone who loved you certainly wouldn't try to eat you, ergo whatever this THING resembles, it is NOT said loved one.

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here. Could someone run a direct point on this by me?

[Legion2213]

Totally loved this episode, Daryl is the bright shining light of this series as far as I am concerned, absolutely fantastic character, he sweats awesome!

Loved the little peep at the breakown of the world in the flashback as well, dropping napalm in the streets of your own cities is always a good indicator that zombiegeddon is rolling along nicely! :D

[Thorn]

I'll just say,
WTH? I know its probably an honored convention of the comics, but Herschel is pulling a Muldoon in his barn? WHY? It didn't make sense to me in Survival, and it doesn't make a lick of sense here. I could buy, just barely, the idea of not wanting to put down a freshly reanimated loved one who just died traumatically (similar to Morgan's issue with his undead wife)...but when they get to the point where the rot/decay is visually all-encompassing, how can anyone retain an emotional connection to a rotting mobile disease-factory that wants to EAT THEM?

My grandfather passed away after having first won numerous battles against lung cancer before it finally won the war. I love my grandfather dearly, dead or not, but I tell you honestly that if his spirit could return from the dead for one breath as his rotten corpse staggered towards me, he would say "SHOOT THAT ROTTING SUMBITCH!" or something equally matter-of-fact and straight to the point. I know this, know it to be incontravertably true, so I would shoot him in the head and send his empty physical shell back to the same rest his spirit currently enjoys. NOT leave it wandering around on a chain connected to a stake pounded in the ground or staggering around in some securable structure. It would be making a mockery of the man he was, and quite simply, I would die before doing that.

I just don't get how the same train of thought wouldn't come to most people. Ie: That anyone who loved you certainly wouldn't try to eat you, ergo whatever this THING resembles, it is NOT said loved one.

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here. Could someone run a direct point on this by me?

Well a lot of people thought that Romero stole the idea of not wanting to put down the dead and storing them in the Barn from TWD. That said it is a bad idea either way you look at it of course, but I guess to a religious person who doesn't believe they are zombies but instead sick loved ones who are decaying or rotting away that might have a chance to be saved who is opposed to taking "life" it could present a challenge of the mind... also since if you are catholic don't you believe during the rapture we all return from the dead or something?

Honestly though going back to Dawn there were examples of the Living not wanting to dispatch their dead so it is not such a stretch for the show based on the genre, I don't know man I am with you I would have no trouble killing anything that was trying to kill me or my family.. at least I am pretty sure about that ;)

[krisvds]

Even if it IS soap operatic so are the comics. Comic books are essentially soap operas they follow the same basic guidelines and have the same sort of restrictions. You follow the lives of the same characters enough and you are going to see the same stuff over and over. The X-Men were not a soap opera? PLEASE. They certainly were and remain so to this day, comics are all about the relationships, building a team, breaking it down, giving them challenges, and having them overcome them. The shock ending, the cliff hanger, the big reveal, the hero, the villain, the anti hero.

Guys... I have bad news for you this is the comic.

I loved the episode. It was paced fine for me, I don't need constant zombie battles. I don't need non stop action, my mind can appreciate more than that in fact it craves more than that. What set THIS zombie comic apart from the others was exactly that... amazing character development and focus.

Remember the montage in Dawn where they loot the bank, take giant loafs of bread, and wear fur coats? That is what this is. It is down time for character development.

As an avid read of the comics I disagree. The television series most definitely is NOT the comic. True both share some sloppy dialogue, but the overall soapy-ness is well ramped up in the AMC production. The comic surprised more in the way Kirkman treats his main characters. Seldom have I encountered a more ruthless disregard of what the majority of scriptwriters consider as 'not done' as in the Kirkman comics. This has led to him stating that, given the chance, he would have done things differently, but still,... For one, the emphasis on the love triangle wasn't in the comics, and without going into any spoilers, I would be very surprised if this little television drama will dare go to the same bleak territory the comic characters find themselves in during the whole prison/governor storyline.

Still enjoy the series though. It's just not as bleak and gripping as the comics were for me. Can't really put my finger on it but this depiction of zombiegeddon at times feels too cosy.

[childofgilead]

The Rapture is something taught by mostly Pentecostal, Holiness and some Baptist denominations. Since it's not included in the Bible, it's a fairly recent doctrine, surfacing in the mid to late 1800s.

As for the walkers in the barn..I dunno..will we hear Herschel's justification? Or will they just pass it up or fart it away in a flashback just like so many other questions?

Seriously. For every flashback where we're given an answer to a question that isn't really asked, we get more questions. Flashback to Shane at Rick's side at the hospital. Soldiers gunning down doctors and nurses. Maybe infected patients? Maybe just those too sick or immobile to take with? Who chained the door afterwards and so considerately wrote the warning on the door?

I'm going to rewatch Chupacabra here in a bit while I have some breakfast, but honestly the best part of the episode was the flashback. That scene had some meat on its bones.

[bassman]

Flashback to Shane at Rick's side at the hospital. Soldiers gunning down doctors and nurses. Maybe infected patients? Maybe just those too sick or immobile to take with? Who chained the door afterwards and so considerately wrote the warning on the door?

None of that is really important, though. The purpose of the scene was to show that Shane really thought Rick's heart had stopped and that he was the one that put the bed in front of the door to keep the walkers from eating him. All the other stuff was just to show the chaos that the world had devolved into.

[childofgilead]

None of that is really important, though. The purpose of the scene was to show that Shane really thought Rick's heart had stopped and that he was the one that put the bed in front of the door to keep the walkers from eating him. All the other stuff was just to show the chaos that the world had devolved into.

I'll grant you that. It's just frustrating, because there are just some things that seem to be a little sloppy continuity wise that pop up every once in a while.

[AcesandEights]

Seriously. For every flashback where we're given an answer to a question that isn't really asked, we get more questions. Flashback to Shane at Rick's side at the hospital. Soldiers gunning down doctors and nurses. Maybe infected patients? Maybe just those too sick or immobile to take with? Who chained the door afterwards and so considerately wrote the warning on the door?

I don't see any of this stuff as a problem, to be honest. Just personal taste, I guess, but in any expansive story there's going to be things left unexplained, for which the viewer has to fill in the blanks and none of these questions seem all that problematic, or as Bassman mentioned, even that important. I'm sure if I thought about it, there'd be a few that get to me too, though.

-- -------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------




As for the walkers in the barn..I dunno..will we hear Herschel's justification? Or will they just pass it up or fart it away in a flashback just like so many other questions?

We'll hear something, but as you allude...who knows how well written or thought out it will be...

[childofgilead]

By the way, in regards to Rise of the Governor..there really isn't anything nice I can find to say about it honestly. Lots of misspellings and grammatical errors, it honestly reeks of self publishing rather than an actual honest to goodness book.

[AcesandEights]

By the way, in regards to Rise of the Governor..there really isn't anything nice I can find to say about it honestly. Lots of misspellings and grammatical errors, it honestly reeks of self publishing rather than an actual honest to goodness book.

Thank you! I've been tempted to check it out, so I may well hold off now. Much appreciated.

[kidgloves]

The flashback in this was epic. I know they discussed it a length in Dawn but has that ever been done on screen before? Bombing your own . That really is down to the line. Desperate, desperate move. A bit that really stuck with me was Shane and Ricks conversation at the beginning as they are walking through the woods. Shane saying they are like old folk talking about their dead friends and that they shouldn't really be doing it. That whole scene was excellent. Bernthal's had some shakey moments in recent episodes but he was excellent in this.

[AcesandEights]

The flashback in this was epic. I know they discussed it a length in Dawn but has that ever been done on screen before? Bombing your own .

It was shown to good effect with the Infected in 28 DL.

Reminds me of the conversation we had last season when evidence of this activity popped up outside of the hospital...

Capt. Harris: Snakebite leader, Ripper Bravo Six, we're gonna need you soonest be advised I've got zeds in the wire down here, over!

Phantom Pilot: Roger your last Bravo Six, Snakebite lead we can't run it any closer. We're hot to trot and packing snake and nape but we're bingo fuel. It's your call, Six actual, Over.

Capt. Harris: Snakebite leader, Bravo Six, for the record, it's my call. Dump everything you got left ON MY POS. I say again, I want all you're holding INSIDE the perimeter. It's a lovely fucking apocalypse. Bravo Six Actual and Out.

Phantom Pilot: Roger your last Bravo Six. We copy it's your call. Get em in their holes down there. Hang tough, Bravo Six we are coming cocked for treetops. Whiskey to Echo... Snakebite Two, this is lead. Last pass on zero niner. Watch my smoke to target, expend all remaining. Follow my trace...

[kidgloves]

It's a lovely fucking apocalypse.

Hallelujah brother Aces.

[bassman]

I don't know much about Nepalm, but wouldn't that have burned some buildings? At least leave some scorched areas? We didn't see any of that in the first season. But of course we only saw a few streets....

Da gubment dun burnt down atlanta agin.

[AcesandEights]

Da gubment dun burnt down atlanta agin.

No worries. I have it on good authority that the South did rise again. Of course, they were all zombies, but you can't win 'em all.

[kidgloves]

I don't know much about Nepalm, but wouldn't that have burned some buildings? At least leave some scorched areas? We didn't see any of that in the first season. But of course we only saw a few streets....


Didn't Rick enter a different part of city? I've read that the skyline shown being napalmed was a well known part of Atlanta and Rick came in another side.

[childofgilead]

I don't know much about Nepalm, but wouldn't that have burned some buildings? At least leave some scorched areas? We didn't see any of that in the first season. But of course we only saw a few streets....

Da gubment dun burnt down atlanta agin.

While napalm is mainly an anti-personnel weapon, yeah, you'd definitely get some burn off on structures, not to mention blown out windows and other physical effects from the overpressure blastwave from the ignition.

Not a bad weapon to have used against the walkers, though it must have been too little too late as there were huge crowds congregated in sporadic side streets waiting on stimuli to react to..;)

If the military had used White Phosphorous, that would have been a beast of a whole different color. (would have been extremely ineffective against the dead)

[bassman]

Didn't Rick enter a different part of city? I've read that the skyline shown being napalmed was a well known part of Atlanta and Rick came in another side.

The geography of Atlanta is all kinds of f*cked up in this show. I could spend hours telling you how they've screwed it all up for obvious time/money/production purposes, but just take my word for it.....angles, buildings, and streets in the TV show(particularly entering and exiting the city on highways) mean absolutely nothing to the real layout of the city.

[shootemindehead]

To add, it's a jelly that burns extremely intensely and is...er..."great" on people, which it can stick too. It's a terrible, terrible weapon. But it probably wouldn't do too much damage to buildings. Incendiaries and High Explosive is used to gut buildings...and...em...people too.

Nice scene too and well acted. The shock is well caught.

[Legion2213]

Agree with what others have said, napalm would be extremely effective against large groups of concentrated walkers, without totally destroying everything around them like hi-ex or frag munitions would, I'd like to see a bit more of this flashback action in episodes to come. :)

When we watched the scene, I imagined those heli's encountering huge hordes of the f*ckers, streets absolutely heaving with them and going "weapons hot" or whatever. :cool:

[kidgloves]

The geography of Atlanta is all kinds of f*cked up in this show. I could spend hours telling you how they've screwed it all up for obvious time/money/production purposes, but just take my word for it.....angles, buildings, and streets in the TV show(particularly entering and exiting the city on highways) mean absolutely nothing to the real layout of the city.

Cheers. I suppose this a good example of overanalysis. Somethings should be left alone when its a tv show and just put down to production issues etc like you say.

Oh. I've just found out a massive spoiler for the upcoming shows. I've really got to stop doing that :(

[MikePizzoff]

No worries. I have it on good authority that the South did rise again. Of course, they were all zombies, but you can't win 'em all.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p98/VynSint/rimshot.png

[krisvds]

Now this might be an elaborate hoax but still, do not click if you do not wish to be spoiled. Just saying:

http://imageshack.us/f/851/1321622887353.jpg/

[Thorn]

As an avid read of the comics I disagree. The television series most definitely is NOT the comic. True both share some sloppy dialogue, but the overall soapy-ness is well ramped up in the AMC production. The comic surprised more in the way Kirkman treats his main characters. Seldom have I encountered a more ruthless disregard of what the majority of scriptwriters consider as 'not done' as in the Kirkman comics. This has led to him stating that, given the chance, he would have done things differently, but still,... For one, the emphasis on the love triangle wasn't in the comics, and without going into any spoilers, I would be very surprised if this little television drama will dare go to the same bleak territory the comic characters find themselves in during the whole prison/governor storyline.

Still enjoy the series though. It's just not as bleak and gripping as the comics were for me. Can't really put my finger on it but this depiction of zombiegeddon at times feels too cosy.

I respect your opinion, and right to disagree but the comic is full of slow points, and lots of hooks ups, and amazing amounts of drama. Usually with a point to further character development or make you care more for a kill. I would disagree that the show is so far outside of that as to be unrecognizable. I can think of so many examples of characters hooking up, dying then hooking up with others... or people they care about dying so they hook up with others in schoolboy and girl like fashion for one issue or so just so they can kill them off later. It is a tool to make you care, it is character development and the comic is in fact full of it. People CONTINUALLY couple up in the comic.

It is what comics do, it is what turns a lot of people off to comics they are giant soap operas for a male audience.

-- -------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------


Now this might be an elaborate hoax but still, do not click if you do not wish to be spoiled. Just saying:

http://imageshack.us/f/851/1321622887353.jpg/

I do not think they are the same people, the shirt is different (one is a circle the other is a 3/4 rainbow, and one looks much older to me anyway... then again could be ;) It was something a lot of people thought might be the case and would make for one hell of a good story.

[kidgloves]

Now this might be an elaborate hoax but still, do not click if you do not wish to be spoiled. Just saying:

http://imageshack.us/f/851/1321622887353.jpg/

You should spoiler your question Kris

[AcesandEights]

Still enjoy the series though. It's just not as bleak and gripping as the comics were for me. Can't really put my finger on it but this depiction of zombiegeddon at times feels too cosy.

I think that's a fair point of view. I feel the same way, myself. That said, it's amazing some of the stuff they have gotten away with on basic cable. As I mentioned in another thread, I just don't think they can realistically touch upon the anguish, loss, decay, human savagery and gore adequately in a tv show for it to be realistic, so I settle for entertaining, which is what I signed up for with the tv rendition (though I can envision it being done in a much darker & desperate way on cable, but then there'd be a lot of people unhappy with that sort of storytelling).

[darth los]

I don't know much about Nepalm, but wouldn't that have burned some buildings? At least leave some scorched areas? We didn't see any of that in the first season. But of course we only saw a few streets....

In the pilot there were definitely burned up vehichles while rick wass roaming the streets. There were even a couple of zeds sitting in a burned bus and came out when they saw rick.

Now it's just speculation as they could have gotten lit on fire any number of ways but it does support a napalm drop as well.

:cool:

[Andy]

I Think my favourite of season 2 so far. I Loved the escalating tension between rick and shane, i get the feeling this is gonna lead to a nice big pay off in a future episode, more of hershels not trusting the group revealed and loved the scenes with merle and darryl out in the woods, true to both characters nature, even though it was only a death dream.

The flash back at the beginning was great as i found reading the comics that i often wondered about shane, lori and carls journey and how the group met, this flash back shed abit of light on a often overlooked point.

And fucking eyyy the barn of death is finally revealed :D Cannot wait for the big pay off! Hopefully next episode!!

:hyper:


Btw does anyone else think Sophia might be in the barn? We have 2 episodes left before the mid season break and that would be quite a good place to leave people shocked. I know one thing for certain. Maggie has got a hell of a lot of explaining to do next episode so maybe we can find out something about Glen because we still don't know much about him.

No.. sophia is quite a important character and outlives her mother


As for the walkers in the barn..I dunno..will we hear Herschel's justification? Or will they just pass it up or fart it away in a flashback just like so many other questions?

Herschel does not beleive they are dead but beleives they are severely sick, ala 28 days later, and will be cured. He does not want to murder innocent people so whenever a walker wonders onto his property, he restrains them and puts them in the barn.

:)

[babomb]

I do not think they are the same people, the shirt is different (one is a circle the other is a 3/4 rainbow, and one looks much older to me anyway... then again could be ;) It was something a lot of people thought might be the case and would make for one hell of a good story.
I thought the same thing. In the bottom photo it looks like she has boobs, and a bra strap.

As to the differences between the comic and TV show- it's the same type of thing that happens when they turn a Stephen King novel into a film. When you're reading a graphic novel like TWD, you have stills that convey bits of the imagery relating to the scene. Your mind fills in the rest. When you see it on film like the TV show, your mind doesn't fill in the blanks because it's already created for you. This leads to a big disconnect between the way you saw it in your mind and the way it's depicted on film. For obvious reasons, it's impossible for filmmakers to give you what you saw in your mind while reading the comics.
So you have 2 choices. You can watch and appreciate the series for what it is(an adaptation of the graphic novels). Or you can continue to watch and be dissapointed for what it IS NOT(a frame by frame recreation of a story you already know in it's entirety). Personally, I'd rather enjoy the show and disregard the differences.

[MinionZombie]

I concur - a great episode. Some thoughts:

1) Excellent episode for Daryl. We got to see both sides of his character, and we can see the conflict within him presenting itself - there's the 'blood loyalty' to Merle (and his underlying guilt about not looking for him), but then there's also him recalling how much of a scumbag Merle is - and then there's the softer side which is being openly accepted by the group: the scene where Carol brings him food and kisses him on the forehead illustrated this nicely. You can see the conflict in his mind now - he'll have to choose one way or another.

2) The teaser from last week was a tricksy bugger - I was convinced he got into a fight with the real Merle - but no, it was all an hallucination. A good one, mind.

3) Two AWESOME zombie kills - the one gnawing on his boot was funny at first, then caving in the head with a branch was pretty brutal ... then the next one was really tense and then it just got fanboyishly enjoyable when it landed on the arrow. :elol:

4) Glenn was hilarious in this episode - his scene with Dale was great, as was his scene on the porch with Maggie where he tried to be all charming and cocky, haha.

5) All the stuff in the woods with Daryl was really tense - this show has continually proved to be very adept at providing genuinely tense sequences. Excellent work, folks of TWD!

6) The scene between Rick and Shane was a great one. The nostalgia for the old days, which was genuinely enjoyable to listen to (they really do feel like old friends), but then Shane's emerging dark side was fascinating to watch as well. As Andy has said, I'm sure this is going to pay off with very interesting developments (some of which we'll no doubt see next week, according to the preview that we got ... Shane vs Dale!)

7) I knew that the barn had zombies in it (as I've long-since-read Volume 2 of the trade paperbacks), but it was a spiffing reveal. It was a creepy idea in the comics, but I feel it's going to be ever-more-so in the show.

8) Herschel is really coming to life for me in the show - Scott Wilson's performance is really good - I knew he was a man with very strong convictions of his own in the comics, but it's really vivid here in the show. The tension between the groups - as a result of Herschel's dominance on the farm - is palpable. He's a gentle old man on one hand, but on the other he's a formidable and dominant presence.

9) Hopefully Andrea finally got some sense knocked into her - she's been so gung-ho recently - it's good that they have plenty for her character to go through, but it's good that she's been given a dose of reality about firearms in her own hands now.

10) Still no sign of Sophia! lol - well, her doll anyway (I thought it was sweet that Daryl rescued that - a sign of his softer side, and his growing dedication to the group). Will she be in the barn? I don't know if they'll go that far ... in the comics I've always seen Carl and Sophia as a perceived 'future' for humanity. When they grow up they'll be able to keep the human race going. If they did, it'd be a real shock for sure, but I don't think they will. I'm wondering if Sophia will be with Merle ... just thinking more practically, there's a possibility that we'll get more Merle and Sophia (being that they both appeared in this episode after long absences - you could combine scenes into shooting periods with those actors, you see) ... maybe not, it's just a theory, but perhaps that'll be the case?

11) The opening scene was great. I love seeing more of Lori/Carl/Shane in the early days - the bombing of Atlanta was chilling, to say the least. I wonder if we'll get another flashback featuring Ed as well - the actor returned for that scene, so I wonder if they got him to shoot some other stuff for the next one or two episodes in flashback? Speaking of which, I thought it was nice that Carol said Daryl had done way more for Sophia than Ed ever did. I wonder if we'll see some sort of pseudo-relationship develop between Carol and Daryl ... just another wild idea, but who knows?

So yeah - another excellent episode! :cool::thumbsup::)

...

Regarding complaints about people 'hooking up', you should read the comics. Everyone's fucking everyone in the books (at least from the 8 volumes I've so far read). The Glenn/Maggie thing is faithful to the comics and there's one relationship that had started before we join the comics, that's not even close to getting going in the actual show.

Indeed, the amount of hooking up in the comics - from the ones I've so far read anyway - is at times silly, but I just go with it anyway. That element has really been pared down in the TV show, and I feel it's much more realistic.

As for human drama - if you didn't have it, you'd be pissing and moaning that it wasn't there - and indeed if you don't have it, everything becomes meaningless and it'd become a tiresome string of zombie kills with bugger all context. The opening sequence of Atlanta being bombed is so much more chilling because we have all the backstory of the city itself, we've already been there and seen the devestation after-the-fact, and we've got so much knowledge about the characters at the centre of that sequence.

The 'barn of the dead' was in the comics, and it was there for good reason.

[Tricky]

I concur, good episode which I enjoyed much more than the previous one (which wasnt bad, just a bit slow). Cant say much more than what MZ said above but I did enjoy it, especially as there were more zombies in this one. I'm not so fussed about zombie kills as its good that the show isnt just a slaughterfest, but I would like to see more random walkers in the distance and things like that

[Wyldwraith]

The one thing I really don't care for this season,
I understand that the whole barn thing is a done deal from the comics and all. What I don't get is this: If Herschel is such a man of conviction, and he thinks it's "right" to keep non-terminated zombies active and locked in a barn that is nevertheless relatively accessible (and dangerous to anyone who doesn't already know the deal with the zombies in it)...why is he (Herschel) secretive about doing so?

I mean, if he believes he's doing the right thing, and he's so firm in his expectations that the group of survivors will respect his rules on his land, why the need to keep such info from them? When Rick offered to move the group down by the barn to give Herschel and his people more room/less crowding, Herschel put the kibosh on that quickly enough.

What I'm saying I guess is this: If Herschel has Muldoon-like convictions concerning the barn zombies, then why would it even OCCUR to him to try and conceal their presence? After all, if he believes he can do what he wants on his land, and if he believes what he's doing is "right", why not be open about it when Rick brought the barn up?

Not asking for a major spoiler or anything. Just...the reasoning of the circumstances seems very bizarre to me.

[MinionZombie]

Wyld - probably because he knows not everyone is going to see things his way. It's why he's keen to see them not stay there forever.

Plus this new group has shown up on his land and they're packing plenty of guns (indeed he demanded that nobody be walking around his land with a gun on their hip). Rick & Co are a potential threat to Herschel's actions - he might have convictions in his actions, but he also wants to protect his spiritual/medical experiment. The ideology of the new group on his land is simple - if it's dead, shoot it in the head - Herschel on the other hand has a different outlook.

[kidgloves]

Theres also the possibilty that Herschel has encountered other survivors and maybe his approach to the walkers didn't go down too well that time.

[Thorn]

I thought the same thing. In the bottom photo it looks like she has boobs, and a bra strap.

As to the differences between the comic and TV show- it's the same type of thing that happens when they turn a Stephen King novel into a film. When you're reading a graphic novel like TWD, you have stills that convey bits of the imagery relating to the scene. Your mind fills in the rest. When you see it on film like the TV show, your mind doesn't fill in the blanks because it's already created for you. This leads to a big disconnect between the way you saw it in your mind and the way it's depicted on film. For obvious reasons, it's impossible for filmmakers to give you what you saw in your mind while reading the comics.
So you have 2 choices. You can watch and appreciate the series for what it is(an adaptation of the graphic novels). Or you can continue to watch and be dissapointed for what it IS NOT(a frame by frame recreation of a story you already know in it's entirety). Personally, I'd rather enjoy the show and disregard the differences.

I could not agree more, not sure what it had to do with my spoiler tag exactly but your thoughts on the subject are spot on. As a person who worked in the comic boo kindustry, I have waited a long time to see a number of these characters portrayed in film (or television) and it will never live up to your expectations because as stated what you can create in your own mind no one can recreate it is THEIR vision, what they saw in their mind twisted by budget, script treatments, producers, advertisers, bean counters, and the actors and directors own vision. It is just not possible to see anything as you read it, what you can do is appreciate what something is and allow it to stand on it's own merit and hope it stays true to the source material as much as possible if not in letter in spirit.

[Zombie Snack]

did anyone notice when Daryl is laying on the ground talking to Merle, Daryl has dirt all over his face, lips and chin, then it cuts to Merle and back to a Daryl close up and the dirt and grime is gone, then it cuts back to Merle then back to Daryls close up again and the dirt and grime is all back on his face and chin..

[babomb]

I could not agree more, not sure what it had to do with my spoiler tag exactly but your thoughts on the subject are spot on. Haha. I just commented on your spoiler tag underneath it in my own spoiler tag to keep it spoiler free. The part about the comic and show differences was meant to be totally seperate.
I'd also add that directors try not to "over-direct" things. They have to allow some creative freedom for the writers and actors otherwise you end with something that feels totally scripted like newscasters reading from a cue card. This leads to differences from what you read and what you see. When reading a comic, emotions are conveyed through a static facial pose in order to convey a general idea. When you have that same scene acted out in live action, it changes it completely. Those emotions are then conveyed by what needs to feel like a real act. IMO, this has alot more to do with many of the changes in the show than people realize. Some things had to be removed in order to keep a good pace. Which also means minor things have to be added to make up for the things removed, and in order to intertwine the elements that were added in later. You have to consider that what might take 2 panels to convey in a comic book may take 5-10 minutes to convey in live action. Then there's the idea that alot of people who like the show haven't read the comics. This means that the show has to keep a pace that keeps those people interested because they don't have a general idea of where things are going like fans of the comics do. Fans of the comics are waiting to see specific things, those who haven't read the comics are basing everything on what they see from week to week.
There's MANY reasons why everything that was in the comics wouldn't work on the show. So if that's something that people can't understand or allow then they might as well just quit watching.

-- -------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------


did anyone notice when Daryl is laying on the ground talking to Merle, Daryl has dirt all over his face, lips and chin, then it cuts to Merle and back to a Daryl close up and the dirt and grime is gone, then it cuts back to Merle then back to Daryls close up again and the dirt and grime is all back on his face and chin..Just a little problem with continuity, it happens. Nothing that ruins it for you I hope.