What did Dr. Jenner tell Rick?

[JDFP]

This thread is for the purpose of discussing what you think Jenner told Rick - something I think if we don't find out on Sunday night for the mid-season finale we won't find out until the end of the season.

If I was to wager a guess it would either be something about Shane ("You need to watch out for that one") or perhaps where the last transmission he received was from (i.e. "The last transmission was from X so many days ago").

What do you think?

j.p.

[shootemindehead]

He may have said the he saw Shane and Lori "together" on the CC-TV.

I thought, like most, that it was "Yer wife's got a bun in the oven", but apparently it wasn't as evidenced by Rick's reaction.

[bassman]

I can't seem to find the interview now but Kirkman said that he didn't tell him about the pregnancy and when they reveal what he said, it will be "huge".

I'm beginning to think there was nothing scripted and they're trying still to come up with something....

[ProfessorChaos]

my guess was on the pregnancy thing, but since that's obviously not it, i'm kinda stumped. maybe jenner did see shane going after lori in the rec room, but ric's reaction was a bit off if that's the case. iirc, ric was really taken back by what jenner said and looked floored by the revelation.

here's hoping we find out this weekend and don't have to wait till february. kinda shitty if they did make us wait too much longer since they blatantly brought it up in the first 5 minutes of this season's opener.

[Andy]

http://www.bloodywhitehouse.com/images/jenner.jpg

:)

[Ghost Of War]

http://www.bloodywhitehouse.com/images/jenner.jpg

:)

Just imagine that...

It has to be something to do with the blood samples he took.

[Yojimbo]

"You have been ruled out as Carl's genetic father"

[bassman]

"I've been very lonely down here and you are a very attractive man. Whadda ya say?"

[Neil]

"i've been very lonely down here and you are a very attractive man. Whadda ya say?"

lol!!

[Wyldwraith]

Here's an out-there theory,
Infants are born missing a great many antibodies that they soon pick up from their mother's breast milk. In the real, non-apocalyptic world babies who are never breast-fed are more likely to be colicky and (in bygone days) prone to Whooping Cough. With that in mind, what if Jenner discovered from his experiments/gathered data that the pathogen responsible for creating Walkers is airborne, but in minute quantities that don't affect people. Yet those small quantities COULD effect any children born post-zombie apocalypse?

In effect, Jenner telling Rick that day-to-day survival is completely moot, because humanity ends with the current generation due to no new offspring surviving.

I know, it's completely unsupported as theories go, but it IS the kind of thing that (assuming he knew it to be so) Jenner might tell Rick to try and persuade him that he (Jenner) is right to let his life end in the CDC explosion because there's no future for humanity anyways.

What do you all think? Keeping in mind I don't BELIEVE this to be the case, merely a possibility.

[MinionZombie]

Interesting theory Wyld, but I don't think it's workable - there would be little point in surviving for any of them. There needs to be a reason to survive.

I think the most suitable theory so far has been Jenner seeing what Shane did via CCTV ... or it could be something entirely different. Ooh, I wanna know what it was that he said so bad! :)

[kidgloves]

I think Wyld's got it. That sort of revelation would be devastating to the general audience. There's so few people left that humanity's screwed anyway, so why not?

[Andy]

I think the most suitable theory so far has been Jenner seeing what Shane did via CCTV ... or it could be something entirely different. Ooh, I wanna know what it was that he said so bad! :)

More suitable than mine?! :shifty:

Id love to see the fans reaction if i was right!!

[Thorn]

As long as it wasn't that Rick was immune, or that there was evidence of super zombies in japan... I am going to be okay with it I imagine.

[Zombie Snack]

I wanna know what he said too, Wyld's example would change everything, wow..thats really the end, sounds awesome. Rick sure did take it in stride if it was about Shane and his whorey wife.

[Wyldwraith]

Glad you guys liked my theory,
Of course its complete speculation, but given the tone of Rick & Jenner's convo at the time he whispered in Rick's ear, and given Rick's tone when he almost repeated it to (presumably/maybe listening) Morgan on the walkie-talkie, I don't think whatever Jenner said would've been as "small scale" as some fact related to the interpersonal relationships of the group. Given Jenner's nihlistic (if not outright apathetic, depending on your view of his demeanor) attitude, I have a strong feeling that whatever Jenner said was about the events out in the world, and their ramifications for the people still around. Of course that could be anything from revealing the location/operations of the last government installation to lose contact with the CDC, to some radio transmission Jenner might have become aware of, to something about the health of Rick's group/one of its members, or the overall health impact of some sort for the remaining human beings.

No way to know until the big reveal of course, but given Rick's dogged position in trying to change Herschel's mind I don't think Jenner's info had anything to do with any functioning enclave of humanity anywhere in their region. I can't back it up, but again, my gut is saying its some sort of information about the pathogen responsible for the Walkers, or some other health-impact on the surviving fraction of humanity. Jenner's defeatist outlook was brought on by some very specific stimuli after all. 1) The loss of his wife, who he perceived as the doctor/scientist humanity needed in this dark hour instead of him. 2) The loss of his last viable "non-necrotic" tissue samples from his wife's brain/body. Jenner wouldn't have cared so much about the automatic safety protocol activation destroying the samples if he didn't feel there was something of value he could either learn or accomplish by working with said biological samples. His plaintive wail when the samples were destroyed didn't seem to me some pointless nostalgia about the tissue having come from his wife. More like the loss of those samples meant he was witness to his being denied whatever opportunity to give his wife's infection/death meaning that whatever work he was doing with those tissue samples represented to/for him. And finally, 3) Admitting to himself during one of his last recordings/transmissions his belief that there was no one out there to listen to what he was saying.

Given all this, in addition to his laser-like focus on the doom the "Walker Plague" embodied and thus inspired Jenner's conviction that they were all better off dying instantly then and there in the locked-down CDC, I just don't see how whatever Jenner said right after Rick barely and narrowly persuaded the doctor to let them out so they could continue trying to survive could be about something other than information Jenner didn't want to die with him, or info Jenner believed might help the group's survival effort...or info which "proved" (in Jenner's opinion) that their survival effort was futile.

Info about Rick's wife being pregnant and/or almost assaulted just doesn't seem (at least to me) to "fit" either Jenner's then-current outlook or the "vibe" of Rick's verbal back-and-forth with the doc. Though again, I've got nothing to substantiate my speculations. Just something I have a feeling about is all.

[MinionZombie]

I don't know - I think Wyld's potential theory would be too hard to explain in the couple of sentences worth of time that Jenner had. Plus, as I said above, there needs to be a purpose for all their struggles. If there truly is no point whatsoever, well then what's the point in anything the characters do? I can't see it being something like that, personally - would millions of viewers want to watch a show where there's no point to the struggle of the protagonists?

It'd be like Children of Men without the central conceit of a 'miracle child'.

Now - could it be something to do with the outside world - i.e. all government has collapsed, there is no rescue team searching for survivors?

I still think the Shane/Lori angle is more likely - could this have planted a seed in Rick that grows into something darker that seeks revenge? Oh the curiosity of it all...

[kidgloves]

Maybe it is just as simple as everyones infected and comes back when they die. I really hope they had something in mind when they did it otherwise were getting into Lost territory

[DjfunkmasterG]

I think he warned them that AMC was firing Frank.

[shootemindehead]

He said "I never liked 'This Life' and I thiought you were especially crap in it."

[ProfessorChaos]

Maybe it is just as simple as everyones infected and comes back when they die. I really hope they had something in mind when they did it otherwise were getting into Lost territory

this seems to be a very reasonable guess, and i also pondered over this, but that would make it very tough to explain all the dead bodies rotting away inside of cars along the roadways throughout the series.

[rongravy]

I'd laugh my balls off if it all ended up just being one long effed up dream while in a coma.

[kidgloves]

this seems to be a very reasonable guess, and i also pondered over this, but that would make it very tough to explain all the dead bodies rotting away inside of cars along the roadways throughout the series.

Kirkmans already admitted that this was an error/set dressing so try not to get too hung up on it.

[ProfessorChaos]

i seriously hope they don't use this as jenner's bombshell. i may be mistaken, but it seems like there's been at least 2 or 3 instances where they've passed cars with actual "dead" corpses inside of them: the pilot had a person rotting inside a car in the driver's seat in the opening scene, and then the traffic jam on the highway had the scene with carl struggling to get the knife arsenal from the truck with the corpse in it. i'm sure there's been at least one or two other examples, maybe not in cars every time, but nonetheless, i'd bet it's happened.

if what you've said is true in regards to kirkman's admission of a set error or whatever (and i don't doubt you when you say that), somebody fucked up big time, at least twice now.

[kidgloves]

i seriously hope they don't use this as jenner's bombshell. i may be mistaken, but it seems like there's been at least 2 or 3 instances where they've passed cars with actual "dead" corpses inside of them: the pilot had a person rotting inside a car in the driver's seat in the opening scene, and then the traffic jam on the highway had the scene with carl struggling to get the knife arsenal from the truck with the corpse in it. i'm sure there's been at least one or two other examples, maybe not in cars every time, but nonetheless, i'd bet it's happened.

if what you've said is true in regards to kirkman's admission of a set error or whatever (and i don't doubt you when you say that), somebody fucked up big time, at least twice now.

Kirkman was saying on the Talking Dead that the drivers may have had head trauma that we couldn't see . It came across as an excuse to me to cover up an error. There are plenty of these errors on the show but im choosing not to dwell on them. Not everyone involved with this production is a zombie geek like a lot of us on this forum and i mean that as a compliment.

[ProfessorChaos]

oh i realize that they don't count on everyone being a connoisseur of living dead-related materials, but kirkman seems to have some input on the show, and he's a self-proclaimed zombie-nut, right?

damn, they better let us know tonight what was said. if they don't, then like bassman said, maybe they've painted themselves into a corner and don't know how to get out without fucking up what's been done so far.

[AcesandEights]

I'm still pretty sure the reveal is

We're the walking dead, per the comic. When it'll be revealed I don't know and while I'd welcome a well structured curve ball, I'm still pretty sure this will be what Jenner imparted to Rick.

And yes, some people will froth about window-dressing minutia gone amok, but it should make for fun reading :)

[Big Kahuna]

I think what Jenner said to Rick is that the whatever is causing the dead to rise is no longer just transmitted through bites, but is now airborne and now everyone is infected. That's why Jenner took blood samples, to prove it out. This new version of it isn't lethal like the bitten version. That's why in the gun fight in the bar, Ricks last shot was to the head, he doesn't want him coming back.

[Mike70]

is it me or have some posts disappeared from this thread??

[Saurian]

I with some of you about the airborne thing. Maybe it was something like your wife is so many months pregnant. It would explain his reaction when he found out from Laurie and then not blowing up when she told him about Shane cause he already figure it out himself.

[Thorn]

is it me or have some posts disappeared from this thread??

Seems to happen a bit these days ;)

[AcesandEights]

is it me or have some posts disappeared from this thread??

Not aware or detecting any sign of posts being deleted. If someone actually recollects their own post disappearing, let me know by PM.

[bassman]

is it me or have some posts disappeared from this thread??

They've been "put down". As Jenner would say, they were only Test Subjects....

[shootemindehead]

Nah...they "opted out"

[Thorn]

I watched the episode again and I am pretty sure he said "I am not really a scientist, but I did stay at a holiday express last night".

[Deaddudewalking]

Think, zombies, dead walking and attacking, less people each day, what could possibly be worse? In the case of infectious disease there is one thing that scares every single scientist in the world...so Jenner said! "Rick there will be a time you regret this (the decision to leave), we stripped and profiled the disease's DNA and learned it's only a matter of time before it's "AIRBORNE" as a pathogen, there's no cure, there's no hope"! NOTE to READERS: This would mean all you would have to do is breathe the morning air and your now a zombie, it would pass most filters as well in buildings, it's an ELE for human kind (extinction level event)!:D

[ProfessorChaos]

I watched the episode again and I am pretty sure he said "I am not really a scientist, but I did stay at a holiday express last night".

congrats, man. you just made my signature.

[swailsrda]

I think he said that the other cdc employees didn't kill themselves or leave, but that they went into quarenteen or into a safe zone with the gov, I know that's not in line with the comics story, but in the first episode we saw a helicopter, and in this last one we saw a plane, so I think they're going to go in different direction than the comic in this regard.

[AcesandEights]

I think he said that the other cdc employees didn't kill themselves or leave, but that they went into quarenteen or into a safe zone with the gov, I know that's not in line with the comics story, but in the first episode we saw a helicopter, and in this last one we saw a plane, so I think they're going to go in different direction than the comic in this regard.

That would be pretty cool: "...and they're dangerous"

[Andy]

Ive said it before and ill say it again, their gonna pull a dallas on us :rockbrow:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/430671_10150638402057416_507432415_9237320_1700267 112_n.jpg

[rickgrimesbig]

I think its that everyone who dies becomes a walker weather they were bitten or not. Thats why Rick shot the fat guy in the bar in the head even though he was already dead. He wanted to stop him from becomming a walker.

[SRP76]

I don't think the BIG HUGE NEWS is anything as mundane as "Lori's knocked up" or "all the dead get up and kill". It's got to be bigger than that, something the viewer can't see for himself with his eyes closed.

[BillyRay]

"I have always loved you..."

http://www.theblackninja.com/images/movie/blues_brothers/blues_brothers_crazy_nazis_always_loved_you.png

[Bard the Bowman]

All right listen up. I think it was either one of two things. They have already been mentioned, but I will go into detail. It was obviously disastrous news, because Rick held back from telling Morgan. He wouldn't have even attempted to tell Morgan if it was something personal like, "Shane has boned your wife" "Or your wife is pregnant". Jenner either said:

1. Everyone is infected and when they die their immune system shuts down and the disease takes over. Direct ingestion of the virus into the bloodstream rapidly speeds up the process. That's why Jenner was testing their blood, to see if anyone WASN'T infected, or immune. He wanted to be thorough.

Rick shooting the fat guy (I say fat guy because no one remembers his name) in the head after once in the abdomen and also in the heart is an indicator.

The security guards puzzle me though. Clearly that is another indicator, otherwise that wouldn't have been mentioned. Jenner obviously didn't tell Rick that scratches can infect you, because Rick knew that before the CDC. But that was actually just a guess on Rick's part. We have no concrete evidence that scratches do indeed quicken the transformation.

I think that Rick was just taking precautions early in the show when he feared scratches causing infection (as far as we know from what we've seen, the virus is transmitted through the saliva) . And after Jenner told him that the virus has infected everyone, he had to make up the scratch-excuse to Shane in order to prevent panic. The guards had died due to something else, and after death and the shutting down of their immune system the virus had taken control and they transformed into zombies.

2. The virus was created by us for warlike purposes and it got out of control (somehow, there are a million possibilities how that could happen) before we could develop a cure.

[Legion2213]

Actually, the security guards are more worrying the more you think about them, they didn't look starved or injured in any way, they were just dead-then-revived as walkers. Like they just went to sleep one night and boom...they wake up dead.

I don't buy the scrathces can cause it theory, these people are banged up and scratched up every episode within the vicinity of walkers, dead walkers, dead people etc.

Something else is going on, something...unpleasant.

[AcesandEights]

Actually, the security guards are more worrying the more you think about them, they didn't look starved or injured in any way, they were just dead-then-revived as walkers. Like they just went to sleep one night and boom...they wake up dead.

When they made mention of it in the episode I was wondering how cool it would have been to revisit the idea of dead matter in the water supply. It would have been pretty cool for Shane or Rick to be guzzling away at some reclaimed water from site during the conversation and stop mid gulp as they realize what might have caused the seemingly unharmed officers to die.



Rick held back from telling Morgan. He wouldn't have even attempted to tell Morgan if it was something personal like, "Shane has boned your wife" "Or your wife is pregnant".
Welcome, Bard. Very good idea to return to Rick's season 2 opening walkie talkie shout out to Morgan...to be honest that seems like ages ago and is worth considering.

[bungi43]

Actually, the security guards are more worrying the more you think about them, they didn't look starved or injured in any way, they were just dead-then-revived as walkers. Like they just went to sleep one night and boom...they wake up dead.

I don't buy the scrathces can cause it theory, these people are banged up and scratched up every episode within the vicinity of walkers, dead walkers, dead people etc.

Something else is going on, something...unpleasant.

Like I posted just a second ago (and I've thought a bit about)...is the way Jenner worded it.

Something like "You don't have to be bitten to end up this way"

Even though the writer tried to explain away the dead people in the cars...that would explain why some of them weren't.

Something like "Not everyone who came back this way was bitten"...or "It's an airborn disease and can affect the living" or something like that.

I have a feeling it will be spelled out as we are guessing where "everyone" is the term used.

[Legion2213]

I totally forgot my manners there...welcome to the forum "Bungi43" and "Bard"

[bungi43]

I totally forgot my manners there...welcome to the forum "Bungi43" and "Bard"

Thanks. Been lurking here for about a month now when I had downtime at work. Signed up today when I had a few. Really huge fan of the show and comic.

[Bard the Bowman]

I totally forgot my manners there...welcome to the forum "Bungi43" and "Bard"

No worries but thanks.

It seemed to me like when Rick was explaining how the guards were turned, he was clutching at straws. Shane sure didn't seem to buy it. And how many of the walkers have scratches just because they are heedless of their own safety? All of them. They're always getting scratched up. Shane was doubtful of that and so am I. To immediately affect someone (as far as we know) the infected saliva has to be ingested. Granted there could be an airborne pathogen or such that they all are carrying, but are strong enough to resist, until their body shuts down completely, and the illness takes control.

Now I don't want to start an argument. I'll just ask a question. Rick seemed completely blown away and overwhelmed when Jenner told him. If he had stated vaguely something like, "be careful of more than just bites," Rick I think would have just assumed he was referring to scratches and contact with walkers and things like that. This he was already aware so I'm not sure how astounded he would be. What do you guys think?

I think Jenner told him about everyone being infected and all will become walking dead. I have no proof obviously, but I am dying to find out. I really hope they reveal it before the end of this season, otherwise I'll go crazy.

[Andy]

No worries but thanks.

It seemed to me like when Rick was explaining how the guards were turned, he was clutching at straws. Shane sure didn't seem to buy it. And how many of the walkers have scratches just because they are heedless of their own safety? All of them. They're always getting scratched up. Shane was doubtful of that and so am I. To immediately affect someone (as far as we know) the infected saliva has to be ingested. Granted there could be an airborne pathogen or such that they all are carrying, but are strong enough to resist, until their body shuts down completely, and the illness takes control.

Now I don't want to start an argument. I'll just ask a question. Rick seemed completely blown away and overwhelmed when Jenner told him. If he had stated vaguely something like, "be careful of more than just bites," Rick I think would have just assumed he was referring to scratches and contact with walkers and things like that. This he was already aware so I'm not sure how astounded he would be. What do you guys think?

I think Jenner told him about everyone being infected and all will become walking dead. I have no proof obviously, but I am dying to find out. I really hope they reveal it before the end of this season, otherwise I'll go crazy.

You mean like this?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bOiu6sFxxdY/TSQJ0f9zXcI/AAAAAAAAHY4/L-_cgP7mjog/s1600/rickisawhiner.jpeg

And welcome to the forums btw :)

[Bard the Bowman]

Thanks Andy.

Yeah it could be like the picture there. Is it just me or does it look like Rick is grateful to Jenner when he tells Rick the secret? Overwhelmed and flabbergasted and despairing, but still grateful. This theory would fit in best with that viewpoint, as opposed to the man-made virus theory.

If Jenner told Rick, "we are the walking dead. The virus has affected everyone and we all turn when we die, no matter what," then Rick would be at a loss, but still grateful for the information, as it would be invaluable.

If Jenner told Rick, "the disease is a biological weapon out of control. We never were able to generate a cure," then I think Rick might be shocked but more angry and bitter and not seemingly thankful for the knowledge. Both theories fit nicely into Rick's radio message to Morgan, but the biological warfare one falls short with Rick's gratitude.

It's tough to tell if he's grateful for Jenner's secret or just carrying over from his thankfulness at being allowed out of the room. What do you guys think?