Space Post - The human race is about to become interstellar explorers!

[Neil]

...well our robot craft are...


Plowing through the solar system's unexplored frontier, NASA's Voyager 1 spacecraft has entered a region of stagnant solar wind and magnetic pressure and is on the precipice of crossing over into interstellar space, scientists said Monday.

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1112/06voyager/

[AcesandEights]

It's amazing we've finally got there...took quite awhile, but I guess Voyager made better time than I expected in some ways.



NOTE: Is "plow" an americanism?

Yes. In this context it is meant as 'pushing forward'. There is also the sexual connotation for the male coital act (again 'pushing forward' or thrusting), which obviously does not come into play here...unless one is pessimistically saying humanity has taken its first step in screwing over the wider universe by making its first intergalactic step (Damn Terrans, there goes the neighborhood!) :)

[Neil]

It's amazing we've finally got there...took quite awhile, but I guess Voyager made better time than I expected in some ways.

...and to think, only another 100,000 years, and it could just about reach the nearest star to us! Makes you realise just far away everything is. I still wonder if we haven't been contacted by little green aliens simply because it's just too damn rediculously impractical (impossible)!

[Mike70]

...and to think, only another 100,000 years, and it could just about reach the nearest star to us! Makes you realise just far away everything is. I still wonder if we haven't been contacted by little green aliens simply because it's just too damn rediculously impractical (impossible)!

hopefully, a craft using a plasma engine, ion engine or solar sail will blast by this thing sometime during our lives.

'tis dangerous to use the world impossible in relationship to anything in science. 200 hundred years ago many of the leading scientific minds of the age would've pronounced impossible many of the things that we now take for granted. the pace of tech change never ceases to amaze me and sometimes it is a bit frightening to think that it might be outstripping our basic ability to understand/control/come to grips with it.

-- -------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------


It's amazing we've finally got there...took quite awhile, but I guess Voyager made better time than I expected in some ways.


interesting to note that voyager is traveling in the direction of the sun, making an easier and shorter trip out of the solar system. the other voyager is also headed thatta (sic) way, though it is on another trajectory. i'm not sure about Pioneer (i don't keep up on that one). it'll be interesting to see how fast new horizons is estimated to get clear. probably a long, long time because even though it was launched at solar system escape velocity (and on a trajectory that makes that possible), it is headed for the kuiper belt and the Oort cloud - a far longer path out of the solar system.

[Neil]

'tis dangerous to use the world impossible in relationship to anything in science. 200 hundred years ago many of the leading scientific minds of the age would've pronounced impossible many of the things that we now take for granted. the pace of tech change never ceases to amaze me and sometimes it is a bit frightening to think that it might be outstripping our basic ability to understand/control/come to grips with it.

I think my issue is, that I fear we (and many other civilisation) not becoming space farers is not down to laws of physics or the like, but simply down to resources available.

I really do fear that over the next 50-100 we're going to strip mine this planet to within an inch of its life, and then realise that we've gone past a tipping point. And this tipping point will mean we are in effect stranded on the planet. There are not the resources left to mount large scale space programs to move us off the planet into space as we'll be busy trying to actually make do with the limited resources left. Consider the tree usage on Easter Island for example...


I think we'll be marooned on Earth in effect. And I suspect this happens to most other species. Certainly they can get into space, but no enough to make a serious impact.

We're incredly lucky on Earth. Just think of the huge amounts of fossil fuel we have available for example. Do we use it wisely? Do we plan and ensure we use some of it to get into space and make a base camp up there such that we are not dependent on Earth, so we can even start using resources from elsewhere in the solar system? Or do we just squander as much of it as quickly as we can to go on holidays and drive inefficient cars? At the moment we're doing the latter, and soon we'll have gone too far to reconsider.

Consider this side of the century for example we may run out of copper. That's it. Our reserves used up. We can go and re-use old stuff, but that will not render as much as we're used to. And slowly it will run out. And this is true of most of our resources over the next few hundred years.

I think we, and most species, end up marooned in effect on their Easter Island!

[Tricky]

Earth is a beautiful planet, I can think of far worse places to be stranded (any of the barren rocks within our solar system). I highly doubt we will completely strip it of all resources barring oil & gas as in the past 20 years or so as a race we have realised that we need to recycle and find alternatives, and that we cant just plough on and destroy the planet. Space is fascinating but lets face it, the years pass by quicker than any of us want them to, we're not getting any younger and the likelihood of anyone here travelling beyond earths atmosphere is very slim unless you work for one of the space agencies or can afford a quick flight on Richard Bransons new space jet...

[Neil]

Earth is a beautiful planet, I can think of far worse places to be stranded (any of the barren rocks within our solar system). I highly doubt we will completely strip it of all resources barring oil & gas as in the past 20 years or so as a race we have realised that we need to recycle and find alternatives, and that we cant just plough on and destroy the planet. Space is fascinating but lets face it, the years pass by quicker than any of us want them to, we're not getting any younger and the likelihood of anyone here travelling beyond earths atmosphere is very slim unless you work for one of the space agencies or can afford a quick flight on Richard Bransons new space jet...
Just imagine towards the end of this cerntury a couple of elements we desperately need for batteries begin to run out. We've already used oil and gas all up, and our society is almost entirely electrical... We've yet to make any head way into obtaining resources from space, so... what happens? In short, we've used all our trees up! We're stranded. We just wouldn't have the inforstructure to support huge space mission to start mining resources from space as we'd be too concerned with issues at home.

[Mike70]

I think my issue is, that I fear we (and many other civilisation) not becoming space farers is not down to laws of physics or the like, but simply down to resources available.

I really do fear that over the next 50-100 we're going to strip mine this planet to within an inch of its life, and then realise that we've gone past a tipping point. And this tipping point will mean we are in effect stranded on the planet. There are not the resources left to mount large scale space programs to move us off the planet into space as we'll be busy trying to actually make do with the limited resources left. Consider the tree usage on Easter Island for example...




we reach on your context now. i agree and this is one of the things that worries the hell out of me too.

if we put the thought, effort and work in now, we can find resources in the inner solar system that are exploitable. the density of mercury is almost as high as that of earth, meaning mercury is probably packed with the heavier elements needed in industry. it's lower gravity (40% earth's) would make it easier to not only mine things there but get them off the surface and back to where they could be of some use.

venus has a high density as well but its surface conditions are not, um, conducive to humans.

mars would be another place to look but it's density is almost 2 grams/cm3 lower than earth or mercury's, meaning less heavy stuff. the density of the solar system starts dropping dramatically past mars.

so in all likelihood, all the heavier elements that we need for industry are concentrated in the 4 terrestrial planets of the inner solar system and the asteroid belt.

[Danny]

Just imagine towards the end of this cerntury a couple of elements we desperately need for batteries begin to run out. We've already used oil and gas all up, and our society is almost entirely electrical... We've yet to make any head way into obtaining resources from space, so... what happens? In short, we've used all our trees up! We're stranded. We just wouldn't have the inforstructure to support huge space mission to start mining resources from space as we'd be too concerned with issues at home.

Think how much technology has advanced since 1991. Now, with the increasing rate of expansion and invention imagine human technology in 2031. It would probably be like comparing the 70's tech to modern day. and modern day WAS science fiction in the 70's.

I forget where i read it but something i found interesting was that the rate of which humans actually gain knowledge is increasing. fast. like 1000 discoveries a milleniea. to every 500 years, to every 3 generations, to every 100 years, to every 50, then every 10, then every then every month then every day. By 2015ish mankind will discover and create more information in 30 seconds than the same amount of data mankind created in all its existence before that point.

With such a burst of information technological leaps are sure to follow. When i was a baby mobile phones were bricks with big arials. now im 23 and they are more advanced than technology from star trek. thats just over 2 decades and that rate of creation is getting faster not slower.

So yeah, any derailing into the singularity aside, we have no idea what we will make, and should a time come where even big business sees a change must happen then you bet you ass that change in fuel wont actually be that hard as its been made out to be. I can imagine thorium reactors being churned out a lot faster than current oil companies say is possible.

[Mike70]

I forget where i read it but something i found interesting was that the rate of which humans actually gain knowledge is increasing. fast. like 1000 discoveries a milleniea. to every 500 years, to every 3 generations, to every 100 years, to every 50, then every 10, then every then every month then every day. By 2015ish mankind will discover and create more information in 30 seconds than the same amount of data mankind created in all its existence before that point.


you are talking about what is called "Technological Singularity Theory." it's the idea that the rate at which knowledge/computer processing, etc. is expanding so fast, that at some point in the near future the speed at which tech change will move will be almost infinite and will lead to the creation of "super-intelligence", be it mechanical or bio-mechanical.

check out Kevin Warwick's "March of the Machines." it is probably one of the best books on the subject of the future of man's interface with machines. Warwick is a british robotics expert and professor at Reading.

[Tricky]

The funny thing is that with all this new technology and supposed intelligence, people are actually incapable of doing things which would have been second nature to our predecessors even in recent decades! Even I can remember when cars were easy to work on and any average joe with a set of tools could change spark plugs, fan belts, brake shoes etc, now if someone lifts the bonnet on their car they just look puzzled by it and rush it round to a main dealer! And vast swathes of western civilisation wouldnt even be able to communicate with each other if the internet and mobile networks went down. Kids and teenagers now can tap away on computers all day long but I bet hardly any of them could build a go kart or a tree house. Technology is awesome and I'm definitely not against it, but is the human race losing its practical and basic survival skills in favour of it?

[Danny]

The funny thing is that with all this new technology and supposed intelligence, people are actually incapable of doing things which would have been second nature to our predecessors even in recent decades! Even I can remember when cars were easy to work on and any average joe with a set of tools could change spark plugs, fan belts, brake shoes etc, now if someone lifts the bonnet on their car they just look puzzled by it and rush it round to a main dealer! And vast swathes of western civilisation wouldnt even be able to communicate with each other if the internet and mobile networks went down. Kids and teenagers now can tap away on computers all day long but I bet hardly any of them could build a go kart or a tree house. Technology is awesome and I'm definitely not against it, but is the human race losing its practical and basic survival skills in favour of it?

supply and demand mentally makes it more specialised.

If only you have the know how to repair a car people pay you for it rather than maintain it themselves. More money from companies at the expensive of common knowledge.