Life After Death

[Neil]

When the lights go out, what happens?

[EvilNed]

Do I have to spell it out?

[Tricky]

I guess nobody knows seen as nobody has ever come back, but my money is on the lights go out and thats it, which is why people should live for the day rather than going through their whole life worrying about the next one which likely doesnt exist.

[JDFP]

I'd add a different option to the list here - it doesn't matter what happens after you die and should not be dwelled upon.

I'm a Christian - what matters to me, in my opinion, is living here and now and living life as best one can to do good for others and try to live with compassion and love for others. As long as I can do this - it doesn't matter what happens after death - whether there is or is not an afterlife is a moot point. It just doesn't matter.

j.p.

[Rottedfreak]

The only apparent life after death is legacy.

[AcesandEights]

Though I'm not certain and hope I'm wrong, it's more than a sound bet that once the electrochemical activity shuts down in the brain it's all over.

[Neil]

Though I'm not certain and hope I'm wrong, it's more than a sound bet that once the electrochemical activity shuts down in the brain it's all over.

Nicely put!

[shootemindehead]

Though I'm not certain and hope I'm wrong, it's more than a sound bet that once the electrochemical activity shuts down in the brain it's all over.

OH YEAH?????


I know a couple of people who'd disagree.


http://www.pathtoterror.com/Movies/DayoftheDead/Dr_Logan_01.jpghttp://mimg.ugo.com/201011/1/9/9/132991/cuts/jenner_528x297.jpg



Upon revival, though, decomposition slows rapidly.

[Rancid Carcass]

When the lights go out, what happens?

Churchill's speech then the intro to Aces High kicks in... ooooh you mean the other Life After Death... ;)

[blind2d]

'When the lights go out...'
Danny Elfman sings a cool song?
Nah, I believe the spirit lives on, maybe taking another form in this world or sticking to the spirit world. It's complicated.
*shrugs* I guess it doesn't matter, though.

[Neil]

'When the lights go out...'
Danny Elfman sings a cool song?
Nah, I believe the spirit lives on, maybe taking another form in this world or sticking to the spirit world. It's complicated.
*shrugs* I guess it doesn't matter, though.

I always have a problem understanding what people mean by 'spirit'. Are they referring to the electrical signals pinging around your brain that makeup consciousness & self awareness? I've don't see what ring fences these particular electrical signals over any others. Why are they special? Do computers go through some supernatural rebirth when they're turned off? :)

[shootemindehead]

Churchill's speech then the intro to Aces High kicks in... ooooh you mean the other Life After Death... ;)

"We will go on to the end, whatever the cost may be...."

[Purge]

Yes.

Hebrews 9:27: "And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment."

[Mike70]

i am an annihilationist. i am of the opinion that it is fade to black time and i certainly hope that is the case. eternity is a long, long time. i have no desire to be "immortal" in either body or soul. everything lives out its time in this universe then dies, i think that is probably one of those immutable laws of nature that there is no way around. i can deal with mortality just fine and the fact that one day i will not exist and everything that was me will be gone, only to live on in my children and their descendants. i need not "soothe" myself with hollow stories for 4 year olds about heaven nor do i find solace in the idea of "meeting" loved ones who have preceded me in death. that is why it is important to show/tell people that you care about them while you have the chance.

i am convinced that the only reason most religions exist is because most humans simply cannot handle to fact that one day they will die.

where is kaos with that "you will die" vid from youtube? i can't find that damn thing.

[Bad Ronald]

Dust to dust.

[Publius]

I always have a problem understanding what people mean by 'spirit'. Are they referring to the electrical signals pinging around your brain that makeup consciousness & self awareness? I've don't see what ring fences these particular electrical signals over any others. Why are they special? Do computers go through some supernatural rebirth when they're turned off? :)

Electrical signals are physical, not spiritual.

[Neil]

Electrical signals are physical, not spiritual.

Exactly...

But surely your 'spirit' is your personality, self consciousness and self awareness, which are all just a bunch of electrical signals firing around your brain.

[JDFP]

Honestly, I've never understood this obsession with people and death. I find it to be a bit unhealthy to be honest in focusing or dwelling upon it in any degree. Why does it matter one way or another what happens to you after you die?

If there's an afterlife, great, if there isn't, who cares? I'll still live on through my poetry I've written for others to share with ('cause I have no interest in having children at all). It certainly has no bearing on me in being a Christian or not being a Christian - or whether I believe or don't believe in God - or how I live in my life in any way. I just don't get why this matters so much to people.

j.p.

[AcesandEights]

Exactly...

But surely your 'spirit' is your personality, self consciousness and self awareness, which are all just a bunch of electrical signals firing around your brain.

Well, to be fair, if a deist or eternalist is looking at the brain as just a way of tuning into, or perhaps just connecting with and interpreting the 'soul' it makes sense. And if you're going to believe in such things, well, that just makes as much sense as anything else, I'd think. Remember, the term "seat of consciousness" as referring to the brain?

-- -------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------


Honestly, I've never understood this obsession with people and death. I find it to be a bit unhealthy to be honest in focusing or dwelling upon it in any degree. Why does it matter one way or another what happens to you after you die?

Though individuals and cultures approach it differently and have varying degrees of comfort with the idea of death, attempts to cope and come to terms with death is at the very heart of humanity. It makes perfect sense to me.

[JDFP]

Though individuals and cultures approach it differently and have varying degrees of comfort with the idea of death, attempts to cope and come to terms with death is at the very heart of humanity. It makes perfect sense to me.

Well, Aces, I knew I was weird but I must be really weird in that case - because the thought of it or what happens after I die never seemed important for consideration at all to me. As something that will invariably happen one day I guess it's fine with me to leave it up in the air as one of those: "Well, I guess I'll find out one day!" type of things. No use in dwelling on something you have no control over.

j.p.

[EvilNed]

Death is fascinating. It is, and always will be, the final frontier. If we ever conquer death, then we are truly gods I suppose. Impossible, you say? Not so, says I!

[JDFP]

Death is fascinating. It is, and always will be, the final frontier. If we ever conquer death, then we are truly gods I suppose. Impossible, you say? Not so, says I!

Ah, The Coming Singularity!

Even if you could, why would you want to? Who and why would someone want to live forever?

Death is natural - it's just a fact of life like taxes and dealing with crazy women.

j.p.

[Neil]

Death is fascinating. It is, and always will be, the final frontier. If we ever conquer death, then we are truly gods I suppose. Impossible, you say? Not so, says I!

Oh at some point I imagine with genetic engineering we could tell our bodies to stay 20 or 30 for ever... Then things would get interesting/messy!

[EvilNed]

Ah, The Coming Singularity!

Even if you could, why would you want to? Who and why would someone want to live forever?

Death is natural - it's just a fact of life like taxes and dealing with crazy women.

j.p.

And natural is always good?

[JDFP]

And natural is always good?

I'd prefer natural as opposed to unnatural. Things are usually the way they are for a reason - at least I believe this even though others may disagree.

I think we've addressed the whole Singularity issue elsewhere, but if it took me to become "Other" than I am now to live a bit longer I just wouldn't be interested. I'm not afraid of death, though I don't look forward to the dying part.

j.p.

[Legion2213]

That was dumb. I voted yes to life after death when I meant no. :rolleyes:

Anyways, would be kinda nice to be proved wrong and all that, but I think it will be the same as before you are born and you just won't be around anymore.

-- -------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------


Oh at some point I imagine with genetic engineering we could tell our bodies to stay 20 or 30 for ever... Then things would get interesting/messy!

That would be completely brilliant...if you did eventually get bored/depressed after a few centuries, you could probably "start the clock" again and carry on ageing naturally if thats what you wanted. Alway interesting to wonder just how the brain would cope in such a situation though, would it be able to contain a thousand years worth of memories and knowledge? Not mention the emotional and psychological implications.

Yeah, that would be damn interesting to find out first hand!

[EvilNed]

I'd prefer natural as opposed to unnatural. Things are usually the way they are for a reason - at least I believe this even though others may disagree.

I think we've addressed the whole Singularity issue elsewhere, but if it took me to become "Other" than I am now to live a bit longer I just wouldn't be interested. I'm not afraid of death, though I don't look forward to the dying part.

j.p.

I'm not afraid of death either. But I prefer living rather than being nothing. In life I'm something. Rotting with the worms I'm nothing. Given the choice, most people would go for extended life.

Also, I'm not so sure things are a way for a "reason". What reason is that?

[JDFP]

I'm not afraid of death either. But I prefer living rather than being nothing. In life I'm something. Rotting with the worms I'm nothing. Given the choice, most people would go for extended life.

Also, I'm not so sure things are a way for a "reason". What reason is that?

Just my personal thoughts below...

Nature and nurture and the overall environmental factors. Things that are intended to survive survive and things that are not intended to survive do not. It's not because of "God made it that way", in my opinion, though others can argue that. I don't mind to do a few things like exercise or take pills or try to stop drinking as damn much as I do (which I should) to live a little longer - and I probably wouldn't mind doing chemotherapy if I was dying from cancer - but there's a distinction between living a little longer through doing some things v. living a little longer through downloading myself into a computer program (the former items I'm still technically me - the latter I don't think I am) - I consider this to be a big distinction - others may not. I'm not condemning people who feel this way though - it's up to them - I'm just saying it's not for me. I think there comes a time and place to where if you fundamentally change too much you're no longer You even if you're still technically "you".

It's making a presumption to say that you'll be nothing after death. It would be a presumption for me to say you will be something after death - the fact is we don't know for sure - and as I've said many times on this thread it just doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I'm here for the time and then gone to whatever, if anything at all, happens next. But whether something does or does not happen next is a non-issue for me so I have no interest in discussing the merits of whether there is or isn't an after 'now'.

I'm not against extending life because of some pseudo-religious indoctrination (i.e. "playing God") - if someone wants to do that all the more power to them and I don't care as long as they don't infringe on my individuality - I'm just against it for myself personally due to what I consider ethical concerns as I see them (i.e. becoming Other from myself - losing my essence).

I don't know if any of this makes a damn bit of sense - but it does to me at least. Hopefully others can see through my crazy too and understand what I'm saying here even if they may disagree.

It's a good discussion though, Ned, certainlly better than the moot question as to whether there is or is not an afterlife which seems pointless to discuss to me.

EDIT: I'm sure a lot of people would go for living in some capacity or another as opposed to death - but I don't know that you could argue "most". I think a great deal of it has to do with how much your 'selfness' (i.e. essence as I call it) changes. Perhaps I'm just prematurely old (or at least very old fashioned) at 31 in feeling the way I do about these things - but I don't know that "most" people would be willing to download themselves into a program or change their very nature just to continue "living" in some capacity.

j.p.

[Mike70]

Also, I'm not so sure things are a way for a "reason". What reason is that?

i'd agree. i deny that anything happens for any metaphysical/spiritual/religious/supernatural etc. reason. things are determined by causality. for example, you get cancer because you've smoked, been exposed to something harmful or have bad genes, etc. you don't get it as some sort of punishment for things you've done wrong. the "just world" idea in which bad things happen to people because of actions they've taken is among the most childish conceits a person can engage in.

[EvilNed]

I agree that a discussion of the afterlife is pointless. Because the burden of proof lies on religion and until somebody steps up and offers some, it's quite clear to me that we were put here on this planet for no reason whatsoever.

Now I don't see a reason for why life is limited. Not for a being such as humans anyway, or any other sentient being. I see nothing in nature that logically demands it to be so. And "It's always been that way" is simply not a good enough argument to me, because heck, there are a lot of things that "have always been that way" that aren't that great.

Nature might be all around us and holding the key to our survival and evolution on many aspects. But to never question it is for me folly. That's like eating every single berry in the woods and not expecting some of them to be poisonous.

[JDFP]

i'd agree. i deny that anything happens for any metaphysical/spiritual/religious/supernatural etc. reason. things are determined by causality. for example, you get cancer because you've smoked, been exposed to something harmful or have bad genes, etc. you don't get it as some sort of punishment for things you've done wrong. the "just world" idea in which bad things happen to people because of actions they've taken is among the most childish conceits a person can engage in.

I agree with this as well - I don't buy "just world" nonsense - even scripture is full of this being bogus bullshit (The Book of Job) for example which is fascinating as a character study even if one doesn't accept it on a literal level, me thinks. As for me, I think the reason is nature, nurture, and environment - a little of all three as I listed above in my post. Things happen not by accident or by some "Metaphysical" mumbo-jumbo (though I guess some could argue that, I don't, my religious views don't enter into it) but because of the equation being set in just the right way through various factors.

j.p.

[krakenslayer]

I think it appears extremely unlikely given what we know. There is zero reliable evidence on this. I won't rule it out entirely, as both the phenomenon of consciousness and the quantum universe are bizarre and unpredictable enough that nothing can be taken for granted (and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence), but let's just say I don't hold out much hope of seeing my gran again.

Even if we make a massive assumption for argument's sake and say there can exist some form of consciousness in the absence of the functional physical structures that support it in the case of organic life, there is no reason to believe that such an existence would be in any way analogous to the one we currently experience, or that a consciousness separated from its host organism would have any need for or interest in the social connections of organic beings. I don't mean to be nihilistic, but things like love, friendship, family and relationships are driven by emotions, and emotions are governed by hormones released in response to environmental stimulus. I would not expect non-biological consciousness to have any use or capacity for emotions or relationships as we know them, so I would not necessarily expect my (theoretical) post-death consciousness to seek out even those I currently cannot live without. People's thinking on this subject is always clouded by the details of established religious belief, whether or not they themselves are religious.

Also, there is no supernatural. There is only existence and non-existence. If it were shown that (say) ghosts existed, even on some weird "other level", then they exist and that's that. Supernatural is an arbitrary term, essentially euphemism for two separate states of inquiry: "not currently understood" or "no evidence".

[rongravy]

I put that I will live on after death because I plan on using voodoo to put my essence into a doll and Chuckying the fudge out of anyone who gets into my way or knows the truth...
That, or anyone who tries to cut a backdoor hole in me and stuff the stuffing into/out of me.
Never again...

Kidding, but excluding the whole GAWD thangie, pretty much everything has recycle-bull possibilities. So maybe my schnizz floats around for billions of years waiting for life to be started somewhere/somehow in another galaxy in the vast universe. Then myself gets inserted into the situation, a memory need not get involved. Or maybe, just maybe, I'm stuck right here in the rat race of spermlife trying to get reborn again...
Alot of reincarnated life could be a 99.9% failure of sperm too slow to swim.

Sure, J.P. has a "I don't believe in Jesus" complex right now, I'd love to hear how he feels when he's seriously faced with mortality(as many do/did, including my once severely athiest parents), but in truth he's somewhat right. As far as a supreme being is concerned... Nahhhhhh.
Look at the bigger picture in a universe NOT based on a book being written when the Earth was considered flat. Does anything anywhere end up no longer existing materialwise?
Even submicroscopic particles eventually tend to clump together. I don't even PRETEND to think we are like computers. That is a man made thangie. Sure, what makes us up is a super rare happening, but stranger still, unexplained things come together and VOILA!!!
Even Hawkings revises his schnizz. If parallel universes DO exist, there is more than enough vast possibilities to tide our sorry asses over.
Sure this argument is pointless, but so is arguing whether or not Romero has lost his touch, or whether Blair Witch sucks ass or not, which I personally think it does...
Sorry for the dig, J.P., but dayumn does that movie suck ass. And yes, I resaw it last night for the first time again...
Right now you seem like the guy who'd be pissed off that someone put up a Nativity scene, because it excluded your personal feelings.
Yeah, GAWD doesn't exist, but chill and have another drink...
And so will I.
I am a firm believer in Zappa, but even he's been wrong from time to time.

[JDFP]

Sure, J.P. has a "I don't believe in Jesus" complex right now, I'd love to hear how he feels when he's seriously faced with mortality(as many do/did, including my once severely athiest parents),

Now where from my earlier posts did you get the idea I have anything against Christ or that I'm an atheist in any way? I've said that I don't believe the question of whether there is or isn't an afterlife matters. I think it's a silly discussion that really doesn't have much merit in asking it. But for the record, I am a Christian and I believe in Christ as my personal savior and try (although I usually fail) to emulate His life and teachings - I believe that Christ was the Son of God. For what it's worth. I don't expect others to accept it - to each their own. It's just my belief. I'm certainly not an atheist at all.

As far as your comments on "The Blair Witch" we'll just have to disagree - people who love it are right and people who didn't like it are just wrong. So that's all there is regarding that subject. :D:p

j.p.

[EvilNed]

I agree with this as well - I don't buy "just world" nonsense - even scripture is full of this being bogus bullshit (The Book of Job) for example which is fascinating as a character study even if one doesn't accept it on a literal level, me thinks. As for me, I think the reason is nature, nurture, and environment - a little of all three as I listed above in my post. Things happen not by accident or by some "Metaphysical" mumbo-jumbo (though I guess some could argue that, I don't, my religious views don't enter into it) but because of the equation being set in just the right way through various factors.

j.p.

But what you describe is not a reason. It is a cause.

[Rottedfreak]

Oh at some point I imagine with genetic engineering we could tell our bodies to stay 20 or 30 for ever... Then things would get interesting/messy!

Molecular Nanotechnology maybe? people could create a paradise on Earth for humans and then change what it means to be human (like eliminate aging and sleep, heighten sensations etc).

[shootemindehead]

i'd agree. i deny that anything happens for any metaphysical/spiritual/religious/supernatural etc. reason. things are determined by causality. for example, you get cancer because you've smoked, been exposed to something harmful or have bad genes, etc. you don't get it as some sort of punishment for things you've done wrong. the "just world" idea in which bad things happen to people because of actions they've taken is among the most childish conceits a person can engage in.

I have to agree. The universe is chaos. It's the natural "order" of things. I can't believe that there's any "reason" to a lot of the happenings that occur. It's just way too random.

[Mike70]

I have to agree. The universe is chaos. It's the natural "order" of things. I can't believe that there's any "reason" to a lot of the happenings that occur. It's just way too random.

the nature of most things is chaotic but order can still arise from chaos. our solar system and all the other star systems we've found are proof of that. there is a reason for that too - the action of gravity. things tend to stick together in space. that was proven by a few simple experiments done on the space station. there need be no supernatural or metaphysical reasons for order arising from chaos either.

[AcesandEights]

Thought this was interesting and poignant. Some of you guys may have already heard of this in the news. Not posting it to debate whether this kid was experiencing a trip to heaven or a peaceful chemical dump in his brain as he spiraled into death.

Just thought it was worth seeing.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sick-teens-videos-viral-death-15248830

[Mike70]

did anyone have the cassette version that did the weird cut thing where part of the the second side was on the first...oh wait...wrong thread.

guess we are fighting on the beaches somewhere else.

[Kaos]

Back by popular demand:

MOY-jJeOeBk

The eternal truth that haunts Terran to this day.

[Mike70]

Back by popular demand:

MOY-jJeOeBk

The eternal truth that haunts Terran to this day.
that's it!

trips me out every time i listen to it.

[shootemindehead]

Back by popular demand:

MOY-jJeOeBk

The eternal truth that haunts Terran to this day.

Sticky mouth motherfucker. I hope he's dead. Drove me mental trying to listen to that.

Jesus...clear your feckin throat before you speak.

[AcesandEights]

Sticky mouth motherfucker. I hope he's dead. Drove me mental trying to listen to that.

Jesus...clear your feckin throat before you speak.

Didn't bother me, I found it distinctive and fitting.

*Shrug*

And don't worry about wishing him dead...he will die and so...will...you. :p

Me? They're going to freeze my severed head in carbonite and hang me on a wall in some intergalactic crimelord's palace. I just hope they don't hang me next to any Patrick Nagels.

[shootemindehead]

It's just a physical trait (habit) some people have that drives me nuts.

I'm not going to die though. I've put too much effort into this life to simply have it taken away but something as trivial as death. :D

[AcesandEights]

It's just a physical trait (habit) some people have that drives me nuts.

I agree in day-to-day life I usually want to tell people to just gargle with some water and clear their throat, but for some reason I found it entrancing in the video, but maybe I was just distracted by my own mortality.

[Neil]

i am an annihilationist. i am of the opinion that it is fade to black time and i certainly hope that is the case. eternity is a long, long time. i have no desire to be "immortal" in either body or soul. everything lives out its time in this universe then dies, i think that is probably one of those immutable laws of nature that there is no way around. i can deal with mortality just fine and the fact that one day i will not exist and everything that was me will be gone, only to live on in my children and their descendants. i need not "soothe" myself with hollow stories for 4 year olds about heaven nor do i find solace in the idea of "meeting" loved ones who have preceded me in death. that is why it is important to show/tell people that you care about them while you have the chance.

i am convinced that the only reason most religions exist is because most humans simply cannot handle to fact that one day they will die.

Mike, I've read your comment a couple of times now and have to say something! It's a very good comment!

[Mike70]

Mike, I've read your comment a couple of times now and have to say something! It's a very good comment!

thanks. i think the only reason that religions and, by extention, discussions like this exist is because of the simple fear of death and the unknown. I usually hate reductionism in all its forms but i think religion is one of those few things that you can boil right down. there's nothing deep or complex about religion or theology. the whole "philosophy" of it that so much bullshit has been dedicated to over the centuries is all about 1mm deep as logic and reason go. it is manifestly about and based upon fear

i see no reason to fear. at least i don't unless i die after ep.4 of a 7 part miniseries that i really want to see the end of...

[LouCipherr]

I don't have much to say other than Mike gave an eloquent answer to the question that I could not agree more with. :thumbsup:

[JDFP]

thanks. i think the only reason that religions and, by extention, discussions like this exist is because of the simple fear of death and the unknown. I usually hate reductionism in all its forms but i think religion is one of those few things that you can boil right down. there's nothing deep or complex about religion or theology. the whole "philosophy" of it that so much bullshit has been dedicated to over the centuries is all about 1mm deep as logic and reason go. it is manifestly about and based upon fear

i see no reason to fear. at least i don't unless i die after ep.4 of a 7 part miniseries that i really want to see the end of...

That's certainly one way of looking at death/religion. I disagree - but I do agree that I'd say a majority of many people view religion and death in the same way. For many people religion is a type of "comfort" concerning the issue of death - something I don't personally understand at all or get on any type of level. I think boiling religious ideology down to the issue of "death" is false - though I freely admit many folks certainly have this intrinsic fear I don't share with them and thus try to find solace in some form of religious faith. It would be premature to label anyone who follows religious convictions into this camp though - I could give two shits what happens to me or whether there is or is not an afterlife after all this which surrounds us. And I know many other folks who feel the same way - but then again, perhaps we are a minority after all.

I'd completely disagree with the matter that there's nothing "deep" (of course that word can be defined in so many ways we'd have to do reductionism again) regarding religious ideology/convictions - though I also freely admit many follow these out of inclinations of fear. So, it's a natural outlook to have when you witness so much of this around you.

I agree 100% with you in that I see no reason to fear at all - when I'm dead I'm dead, shit happens, finis, the end. If and when (or when not) something or nothing happens after all this - it's, again, silly in discussing in any form or fashion.

j.p.

[Mike70]

i've always found this verse from a pink floyd tune interesting:


Life is a short, warm moment
And death is a long cold rest.
You get your chance to try in the twinkling of an eye:
Eighty years, with luck, or even less.

ah well, it might not even matter. the nature of the universe is pixelated and holographic. if the holographic principle of mathematics applies to the 'verse itself, then we are all merely projections from the edge of the universe... and if quantum state immortality is true, none of this shit matters.