TWD 2x08 "Nebraska" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

Okay folks - the final six episodes of Season Two are underway, so have at the discussion!

Remember - keep all discussion of the episode WITHIN THIS THREAD - many forum members don't get to see the episode until days later (e.g. my fellow Brits and I don't get to see it until the following Friday night at the earliest - five days later), so please don't post any spoilers or general info in other discussion topics or in the shoutbox - thanks for your consideration in this matter. :)

[ProfessorChaos]

damn, that last scene was intense. i could feel my heart beating, even though i knew exactly how things would turn out. cool to see rick kicking ass and taking names for once. this last half is gonna be awesome, can't wait till next week!

[bassman]

damn, that last scene was intense. i could feel my heart beating, even though i knew exactly how things would turn out. cool to see rick kicking ass and taking names for once. this last half is gonna be awesome, can't wait till next week!

Indeed! Seeing Rick take those guys out was a breath of fresh air. He's becoming the hard ass Rick from the comics.

Not a bad episode at all. The second half of season two has started out on an appropriate bang...

[AcesandEights]

damn, that last scene was intense. i could feel my heart beating, even though i knew exactly how things would turn out. cool to see rick kicking ass and taking names for once. this last half is gonna be awesome, can't wait till next week!

I also agree! :D

And damn do the previews for next week look hoppin'!

[White_Zombie]

Did any one notice how rick shot the fat guy in the head even though he was already dead? My speculation is DR.Jenner told him you don't need to be bit to turn, that's why fatty took an extra shot to the melon. I think taking two .357 rounds point blank is enough over kill, so why waste a bullet?

I also speculate that group was scouting the farm, after all they mentioned it with out out getting a definite answer from Rick. When the other group finds out two of it's members were killed i bet they're going to assault the farm, either with firearms or bring walkers in. Another thing with the Lori crash plot, this group might find the wreck on the road and take her hostage. It has strong potential to go that way.

Oh yeah, i suspect Herschel's daughter was scratched by her zombie step mother and infected.

[Wyldwraith]

So...first impressions of the first episode of the season's 2nd half,
At first, I felt like it dragged a bit and kept rehashing dialog from the midseason finale. Thankfully though it soon picked up. Dale has finally made his snake-in-the-grass move against Shane, which to me at least is very hypocritical, since Dale in the same breath is talking about unifying the group and stopping things from going to Hell. Honestly, had I been the listener instead of Lori I would've been of the opinion (based on his tone and how he phrased what he chose to say) that what was sticking in Dale's craw the most was the majority of group members voicing their belief that Shane's decision to clean out the barn was justified and understandable. Dale even went so far as to directly link the idea that everything is going to Hell on the farm because of people seeing things Shane's way and backing him up when it was put-up-or-shut-up time. Last thing I'll say about Dale in this initial feel of the episode is that while we viewers know Dale has correctly guessed what happened to Otis, Dale's openly voicing his accusation to that effect without anything to substantiate it has 0% chance of accomplishing anything positive, and quite a good chance of causing still more strife and internal dissension within the group in an already tense situation.

Moving on, I felt like the Lori car wreck was VERY POORLY timed! We were already full up on surprise injuries leading to life-threatening situations. That car accident (which was WAY overdone with the multiple flips) was too much too soon. Especially with the girl from Herschel's group that got grabbed by her still-not-dead Walker mother, and who, while they've yet to spell out what's the matter with her and are guessing shock...after violent close contact from a Walker's clutches and the sudden racing heartbeat + very high fever...is either meant to be a red herring about whether she's been infected, or the last chapter of the barn's tragedy.

The scene in the bar was getting a little thick, but understandably so, until the pair of what were obviously raiders showed up. Rick wisely beating them to the punch and gunning them down before they could do him and his in was, hands-down, the single most pragmatic and tortured-moralizing-free decisive bit of action on Rick's part. The first decision and follow-through actions that a) Made me feel like he had the training and experience we're supposed to believe he has as an ex-cop, and b) Was the first indication that Rick can voluntarily bring himself to pull the trigger (no pun intended) in a difficult situation where the action hasn't been all but forced on him by another's action(s). Kudos to Rick, he gets a Shane Gold Star.

All in all, the episode had its faults, and CERTAINLY wasn't as strong as the opening of Season 2...but it had some solid good points as well, that give me hope for this half of the season.

[ProfessorChaos]

Did any one notice how rick shot the fat guy in the head even though he was already dead? My speculation is DR.Jenner told him you don't need to be bit to turn, that's why fatty took an extra shot to the melon. I think taking two .357 rounds point blank is enough over kill, so why waste a bullet?

i seriously hope this isn't what jenner said to rick, given how many scenes have had dead bodies sitting idly in cars. still not sure what else it could be, but it better be worth the wait. been almost a whole season since that conversation (which is probably like two weeks max in TWD time).

[White_Zombie]

i seriously hope this isn't what jenner said to rick, given how many scenes have had dead bodies sitting idly in cars. still not sure what else it could be, but it better be worth the wait. been almost a whole season since that conversation (which is probably like two weeks max in TWD time).

The speculation alone kills me, and i really hope I'm wrong because if I'm not it's gonna poke some serious holes in the credibility of TWD world.

[Moon Knight]

The last 15 minutes were awesome!

I also liked that little moment Shane spent with Carol. That was cool.

-- -------- Post added at 11:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------


The speculation alone kills me, and i really hope I'm wrong because if I'm not it's gonna poke some serious holes in the credibility of TWD world.

This.

[Publius]

The final scene was awesome, I've been waiting to see an encounter between groups of survivors with that kind of tension. Boneheaded move on Lori's part, though, part of me hopes she gets eaten for that.

[childofgilead]

Very enjoyable episode. The only part that stuck in my craw was possuming mom zombie.

Aside from the timeline and infection vectors, I don't think that the creators care enough to have a firm timeline or everybody who dies comes back/bitten to be infected continuity to really care at this point. Carl went from bleeding out and having his insides shredded to up and about and hanging with mom in the farmyard. Clearly, to the showrunners, a cohesive timeline isn't a priority.

That being said, the performances were by and large really good I felt. I don't buy for a minute that this is the first episode that Darabont had zilch to do with, but based on the "coming up this season" little blurbs we got, I'm really stoked.

"Sorry brother."????

Surely this is just some kind of trick, no way they would spoil a reveal like that on a preview..would they?

[Ragnarr]

Good episode! While not technically a "season opener" and in fact a continuation of a split season, it made sense that there would be a clean-up after the "Barnmagedon" shootout. Sort of like the down feeling the morning after a party at your place; kitchen is trashed, empty beer bottles everywhere, and hungover friends shuffling about like... zombies.

Lori crashing is a lame development in my opinion. Thinking it ONLY happened so Daryl can have a guilt moment for turning her down about going into town. Hey TWD writers, Daryl having a guilty moment being an important plot point? (*yaawwwwn*) Yeah okay sure.

Go Rick!

[Thorn]

Good episode! While not technically a "season opener" and in fact a continuation of a split season, it made sense that there would be a clean-up after the "Barnmagedon" shootout. Sort of like the down feeling the morning after a party at your place; kitchen is trashed, empty beer bottles everywhere, and hungover friends shuffling about like... zombies.

Lori crashing is a lame development in my opinion. Thinking it ONLY happened so Daryl can have a guilt moment for turning her down about going into town. Hey TWD writers, Daryl having a guilty moment being an important plot point? (*yaawwwwn*) Yeah okay sure.

Go Rick!

My thoughts exactly as I watched this unfold, it was setting up a white knight moment for our favorite Hillbilly Ninja to ride in on his hog and save the day.

As to my thoughts on the episode, I enjoyed it for the most part.

Criticisms:
- Bar scene with Herschel took a bit too long, and kind of covered the same ground too much. It could have been shorter and given us more time for at least one more zombie kill.
- Loved Rick's scene in the bar after the boys from Philly showed up, great acting, solid action. My one criticism and while yes it was supposed to all feel very wild west, and Rick was using the mirror to watch his six... no good cop let's a man stand behind him who is a potential risk with or without guns. He could have positioned himself differently showing more police training, savvy, and common sense.
- I really don't want to spend too much more time on the farm, and do not want to spend more "sick time" "injured person" drama there especially. How many people have we had to watch sick, or injured on the farm? Yes it is a drama, sick people who might die is a dramatic tool, but I am over it for now. Move on please. Will this be the "everyone who dies, for any reason, will re-animate as a zombie" I think that this is the plot tool they will use to deliver that message to our survivors but I still am not interested right now. This is not ER, House, or even Scrubs. I am over the medical sick person crap.
- Shane, I sense Shane will soon be dead. The scene where he was washing Carol's hand was the tool by which they try to pull some viewers in to see him as not such a bad guy, almost redemption, making him more likable in a way so that when they kill him he will be more sympathetic. It is a common tool used by writers in these cases. That said it was a stark contrast to the Shane coming unhinged scenes we see, and to everything else that is going on so it seemed out of place to me. He has been nurturing with Carl and Lori, but I have never got that sense from him with the group he is more the tough alpha dog not the den mother. So I really didn't like the scene at all, though as discussed on the talking dead he was talking more about him than anything else further showing his selfish nature, and I guess possibly pushing his agenda a bit.

Compliments
- Thank god it is back on waiting for it during the break was worse than the hunt for Sophia (I kid I kid)
- Loved Rick's bar scene as far as him showing what he is capable of, also for introducing more tension into the show. Especially human tension in the comics they had a number of run ins with unsavory survivors and some of them shocked the hell out of me. While this was more of a run of the mill "we want your women and your beer" survivor groups on the surface at least it was still a well acted scene, and Rick showed his cold blooded side where he just does what needs to be done while sticking to what is right. His hand was forced, he was protecting the group. He did what needed to be done and did it in cold old west bad ass sheriff style. Using his brains, his communication skills, and then cold steel when there was no alternative and he didn't blink skipping from one to the other. Love a character who thinks before acting, and talks before shooting, but does what needs to be done and does it well when he has to.
- Carl came off well foreshadowing part of what he is and what he can become. Comic book Carl is a lot differen't than TV show Carl but there is an evolution there I think we are seeing unfold well, and as an actor I think the kid is starting to nail it.
- The aftermath of "barn-ageddon" was great to see, and the jump scare with the mother not being "quite dead" enough was a great reminder to how dangerous things were and can be, and to keep us on our toes. It served as a great reminder to the survivors as well.
- Some of the dialogue between Rick and Herschel was amazingly well written so kudos to the show writers.
- Great zombie make up on the zombie hit by Lori, slowed down he looked great even when bouncing off her car.

[Wyldwraith]

I still feel that Lori's car accident was overdone, dramatically speaking, and cliched to boot with the whole taking her eyes off the road to look at a map being held against the front of the steering wheel. I've seen that EXACT SAME SEQUENCE numerous times. One of the Leprechaun flicks did it, Dracula 2000 did it, and the entire gamut of CSI shows have done it. To say nothing about hardcore action flicks. I wouldn't have minded so much if they'd stuck to her instinctively veering to avoid the Walker and off the road and simply turned the car onto its side as she hit a raised portion of uneven shoulder of the road. The multiple high-speed side flips honestly made me cringe. Though I agree it was all about creating a guilt-moment for Daryl, and probably a ride-to-the rescue situation as well.

I liked how things culminated in the bar with the two raiders. The tension was very palpable and the thin veneer of false amiable Q&A came off as very real and lead in to Rick's actions very well. My one gripe is based on what we see in the preview blurb. Glenn was keeping watch at the door, and then suddenly he was away from the door and near a side wall of the bar as the raiders came in. Fine and all, but if the buddies of the 2 raiders killed by Rick were so close as to come rushing over to in effect pin down Rick, Glenn and Herschel before they could exit and reach their car, why was there no hint of their presence when Rick and Glenn drove up? I mean the town was pin-drop SILENT when they came in. Silent enough that anything but remaining still would've made perceivable noise. The raiders, juxtaposed against that brooding silence rather felt like they just appeared out of nowhere. Perhaps that was the writers' intent, but it just seemed a bit weird to me once you add in the appearance of the buddies of the two dead raiders.

Still, I agree with a lot of the good points made previously.

[Thorn]

I still feel that Lori's car accident was overdone, dramatically speaking, and cliched to boot with the whole taking her eyes off the road to look at a map being held against the front of the steering wheel...

Completely agree with this, it was lazy writing or over dramatic special effects people, or poor directing or a combination of all. I really didn't like how it all went down. I would even be okay with her just hitting a walker and losing control and running head on into a guard rail. No need for the Dukes of Hazard hay stack jump and flip(s).

[AcesandEights]

I still feel that Lori's car accident was overdone, dramatically speaking, and cliched to boot with the whole taking her eyes off the road to look at a map being held against the front of the steering wheel. I've seen that EXACT SAME SEQUENCE numerous times.

Gotta give it to you on this one, I completely agree. It was so cliche I took it for granted and put it right out of my mind, though I do think I recall rolling my eyes when it happened. I'd say it was the low point of the episode for me--an otherwise solid episode, by my reckoning.

-- -------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------


The speculation alone kills me, and i really hope I'm wrong because if I'm not it's gonna poke some serious holes in the credibility of TWD world.


I fear this is going to be the case.

[Sammich]

I thought it was an ok episode and I too could see the car crash coming just as soon Lori was trying to read the map. I have a feeling that this is just going to be used as a twist on the Sophia storyline but this time many people not willing to waste time on a hopeless search and want to leave the farm.

The pizza hut $10 dinner box did look really intriguing.

[Mike70]

My speculation is DR.Jenner told him you don't need to be bit to turn

my father is almost entirely deaf and reads lips very well (i'm decent at it). he's watched that segment a few times and his best guess (and you can't see jenner's entire mouth) is that jenner says something along the lines of: "it's too late. you're all infected."

[bassman]

my father is almost entirely deaf and reads lips very well (i'm decent at it). he's watched that segment a few times and his best guess (and you can't see jenner's entire mouth) is that jenner says something along the lines of: "it's too late. you're all infected."

I believe they say that the actors didn't even know what they were saying/hearing....

I guess if we're taking shots at what will soon be revealed in the series, it was either the secret that Lori is pregnant(which is now counted out because Rick knows), or that everyone will become walkers when they die. Big shocker, we're the walking dead! Dum dum dummmmm

[Zombie Snack]

Ray Charles could have seen the dukes of hazzard car crash and the I'm not dead yet step mom walker jump scare coming...but if I got to put up with a couple old outdated, or obvious gags so the mindless mass will continue to tune in and keep the ratings up I guess it's worth it, just keep the gags to a minimum please!
I loved the entire bar scene, great dialogue and great acting. I also enjoy watching Shane continue to de evolve. I read somewhere that Darabont has a new show in the works and he has reportedly offered the lead to John Bernthal (Shane). As much as I sometimes dont like Shane, I'm not sure I am ready to see him leave the show either.

[krisvds]

Yeah; the bar scene was pure gold. Solid acting, good suspense, great writing.
Also liked the moment where Andrea jumps out of the truck to go pick up that arm. She's come a long way ....
The storyline concerning Lori however was just plain weird. There she was, angry at Rick that he was leaving their son again only to leave Carl herself a couple of hours later. For what reason? At that time there was just no point. Why not ask someone else to accompany her? Why the rush? They werent gone that long to get really worried. It seemed like an excuse to isolate her from the group and put her in jeopardy.
And the crash was just plain silly.
All in all TWD keeps delivering really great scenes mixed with really bad ones.

[AcesandEights]

The storyline concerning Lori however was just plain weird. There she was, angry at Rick that he was leaving their son again only to leave Carl herself a couple of hours later. For what reason? At that time there was just no point.

Sounds like they've captured the essence of the female thought process, to me :p

[krisvds]

Sounds like they've captured the essence of the female thought process, to me :p

Ha! You might be on to something there. In fact; brilliant writing! Makes Lori a believable and deep character. What was i thinking?
;)

[kidgloves]

Loved it despite the obvious plot contrives as others have pointed out.
All the bar scenes with Herschel and Rick were excellent. Scott Wilson seems to have got his head around the character now and im looking forward to seeing the guy on screen every week. I might have to dump Dale for Herschel unless Dale pulls his finger out. I don't think there is room for both of them the way they are written at the moment unfortunately.
Also really enjoyed Andrea picking up the arm and the nonchalant way she tossed it onto the truck.
Looks like Carl is starting his way down the same path as the comics and Riggs looks more than capable of pulling it off. Lets hope he doesn't grow to much eh?
I was really surprised to see the guy from Terriers show up and then get blown away. I don't think it was a coincidence that Dave and Tony were from Philly.
Next week looks great as well.
Tick tock. Tick tock.

-- -------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

I wonder what effect the car crash will have on Lori's baby?
Maybe a convenient way to get rid of the baby storyline?

[White_Zombie]

[/COLOR]I wonder what effect the car crash will have on Lori's baby?


Very true, good thinking i forget all about that.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, the "eliminated baby" angle was what I thought of too. Babies are a pain in the arse for production crews. PITA full stop, if you ask me. But, if one knows the comic then you know that it doesn't end well for either Lori or baby anyway, but I doubt that AMC would have the balls to play out the storyline from the comic.

The "I'm not dead yet" step mum thing was terrible too.

[Mike70]

I believe they say that the actors didn't even know what they were saying/hearing....


like i said, he was making an educated guess as a lip reader. you can't see all of jenner's mouth (on purpose no doubt) because if you could then even i could tell you exactly what he said.

could all be a red herring too.

[Ragnarr]

I believe they say that the actors didn't even know what they were saying/hearing....

I guess if we're taking shots at what will soon be revealed in the series, it was either the secret that Lori is pregnant(which is now counted out because Rick knows), or that everyone will become walkers when they die. Big shocker, we're the walking dead! Dum dum dummmmm

No wait! I got what Jenner said! He DID take blood samples and medically check the group out, yes? So I'm thinking he whispered to Rick, "Your wife is pregnant." Would make Rick "figuring it out on his own" in that season 2 episode more plausible.

[Thorn]

No wait! I got what Jenner said! He DID take blood samples and medically check the group out, yes? So I'm thinking he whispered to Rick, "Your wife is pregnant." Would make Rick "figuring it out on his own" in that season 2 episode more plausible.


Maybe but his facial expression showed more worry than that I thought, it seemed bigger in scope. I don't know. Maybe not, maybe he said it is not his as well... ;) Beats me but I just really thought the everyone comes back thing seemed to make sense a scientist would know that. Especially one who was in a building full of suicide doctors who offed themselves. At least one had to hand themselves our poison themselves or OD. Ahh well all speculation at this point.

[bassman]

No wait! I got what Jenner said! He DID take blood samples and medically check the group out, yes? So I'm thinking he whispered to Rick, "Your wife is pregnant." Would make Rick "figuring it out on his own" in that season 2 episode more plausible.

I originally thought it was the prenancy, but after 208 I'm thinking that it's the fact that everyone comes back regardless of how they die. That's why Rick gave them the double tap with headshots and I think he'll reveal that in the next couple of episodes. Maybe even 209 when they're held up at the bar....

[Neil]

Did any one notice how rick shot the fat guy in the head even though he was already dead? My speculation is DR.Jenner told him you don't need to be bit to turn.
I was going to ask about that. Do we know yet if people who die of natural reasons come back?

-- -------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------


I still feel that Lori's car accident was overdone, dramatically speaking, and cliched to boot with the whole taking her eyes off the road to look at a map being held against the front of the steering wheel.
I agree, and the whole thing of her going off by herself to start with too... Really!?!?

[AcesandEights]

I was going to ask about that. Do we know yet if people who die of natural reasons come back?

Within the context of the TV show, we do not know. However, in the comics....

Anyone who dies comes back.

[Neil]

^^ OK! Thanks! I've not read your spoiler as I've not read the comics... :)

[kidgloves]

If the spoiler i've heard today about episode 12 is true, the end of this season is going to be absolutely incredible.

[Ragnarr]

I originally thought it was the prenancy, but after 208 I'm thinking that it's the fact that everyone comes back regardless of how they die. That's why Rick gave them the double tap with headshots and I think he'll reveal that in the next couple of episodes. Maybe even 209 when they're held up at the bar....

Hmm... I think you're on to something there. We still have yet to see someone die WITHOUT ever being bitten. Maybe that's what might be wrong with the farmer's daughter (fever, shock). The z-bug might have mutated into an airborne pathogen or something. And that could be what Jenner told Rick. I think we'll know for certain by the end of this season.

[bassman]

The z-bug might have mutated into an airborne pathogen or something. And that could be what Jenner told Rick. I think we'll know for certain by the end of this season.

Seeing as how Kirkman was inspired by Romero's trilogy, we won't ever know what caused the dead to rise, whether it be virus or what have you. Unless the people behind the show change it, or course. I cartainly hope not. Once this turns into Resident Evil it all goes downhill...

[Ragnarr]

Seeing as how Kirkman was inspired by Romero's trilogy, we won't ever know what caused the dead to rise, whether it be virus or what have you. Unless the people behind the show change it, or course. I cartainly hope not. Once this turns into Resident Evil it all goes downhill...

Agreed. But it is interesting that Rick made it a point to drop the Philly dude behind the bar with one round to the head, and his third shot to the heavy dude (who was already obviously done) with a headshot. He already knew that a headshot drops a walker through his past experiences with them, but the living too? Either he knows something for certain (ala Jenner) or I'm just looking way too deep into the storyline.

[Andy]

Great episode, im really really happy to see the walking dead back on screens again. Alot of my thoughts have already been posted so rather than retread old ground ill just say 2 things..

Bar scene - great stuff, i was really starting to dismiss rick as a incapable leader and so far flung from his comic book character, the way he's been handling the whole herschel situation in the first half of this season was so stupid but the bar scene really restored some faith.

Dale - I REALLY hate dale. No-good, spineless, liberal, shit stirring, two faced son of a bitch. i cant wait for him to die..

[MinionZombie]

Woah, Andy ... what's with the Dale hatred? I really dig Dale's character ... but I wouldn't call him a 'spineless liberal', he doesn't strike me as being one way or another politically. He strikes me as the 'old sage' of the group who has many of life's experiences and regrets under his belt and it's from that well of life that he draws his views on things. He's a very reliable counter-balance to the over-wraught emotion of many of the other group. You need a counter-balance like that - Shane very easily flies off the handle, while Dale is very hard to push over the edge.

...

Anyway - my thoughts:

1) Wooooo! TWD IS BACK, BABY! :D

2) Mazzara had said how he wanted to bring in more wide shots to return a sense of open scale to the episodes - and he's succeeded here. I could tell right away there was a shift in the photography, from staging a tight conversation between Rick and Shane with a far off background in it, to some excellent wide shots - one in particular, from up on high at the barn looking over at the house, you suddenly see how far one is from the other (thus lending more credence to them not hearing shuffling walkers in the barn).

3) Good to see Shane's nicer side - when he's washing Carol's arms. He's seen what his actions have led to, and he partially regrets how it went down, but naturally he stills believes what he did was right. However it's good to swing his character back a bit so he doesn't become a mustache twirler.

4) Likewise, good to see Rick's dark side come through. I think it was right and wise of them to have Rick resist as long as he could to no go 'over the edge' - that's a very important thing for his character - he's really resisted (whereas Shane was quick to let his morals slip) until pushed to the nth degree - and the bar scene was excellent. I wasn't quite sure how it was going to go down, and you kind of ease into these two characters as Dave was kind of a funny guy, but then suddenly he says something and you can feel the palpable sense of potential threat. So it felt like a little cat & mouse game and there was some great tension there - then quick draw Rick comes out and he takes names. Obviously it's going to be a decision that leads to trouble (I'd wager that those guys really do have others in their group, and that's who Rick was defending against in some of those clips we saw in the teaser trailers a couple of weeks ago) - but this is the point where we now get the Rick from the comics (as he became - he did resist for a good while in the comics too, lest we forget, it's true to his character) who has is pushed into situations where he is forced to act defensively with extreme prejudice for the good of the group. So it's a nice shifting of the moral ground around Shane and Rick in this episode, bringing them closer, but also here shifting them to each other's sides ... the line is no longer defined - excellent.

5) Andrea taking a scythe to the zombie's head - noiiice.

6) A nice little scene with Glenn and Rick in the car regarding Maggie. It was also nice to hear more about Glenn's background (he has a mother and sisters) ... I wonder if we'll get a more personal moment between Glenn and Maggie where he opens up to her about who he has lost. We've never really seen that from him with the group - he seems to be handling the loss of his former life quite easily, but it would be interesting to see a more wounded side of his character that he's been keeping locked away for personal reasons, a side that he's only willing to share with Maggie.

7) Lori in the car - I felt the car wreck could have been staged a little bit better (e.g. driving faster to make the roll a little more likely to happen), but ah well ... ... and women drivers, am I right, guys? :sneaky: ... ... j/k - just messing. :lol:

8) Interesting to see the fallout from the events of the barn massacre - Carol revealing she'd said goodbye to Sophia long ago, Daryl totally disheartened by what he sees as his failure, Dale extremely concerned about Shane's dark side (and Lori not wanting to believe that), Carl's numbing to these horrors where he's beginning to see the cold hard truth of dealing with certain situations (getting that from watching his father have to step forward and take down 'Zophia') ... yes, interesting. They still need to do a little more with T-Dog, mind.

9) Interesting to see, now that Herschel has realised he was wrong about the walkers, that when those two guys entered the barn it positioned Rick, Glenn and Herschel on the same side - I think that scene will bring the two groups together as one from now on. It was nicely staged, that scene. :)

So anyway - excellent episode - and the first without any Darabont involvement at all (2x07 had some, but not a lot, so it seems) - and so I think we can safely trust Mazzara to shephard this show onwards. :)

Really looking forward to the rest of the season ... speaking of which, if anyone has read those spoilers going around on the internet regarding the rest of the season (and indeed the season finale) which Bassman alerted us to the other day, can I strongly advise that if you know how things ultimately go down in future episodes - SAY NOTHING - not even suggestive statements ... such statements can lead we viewers to then theorise according to the context of the episodes we've seen and come up with possible events, and then when one of those events unfolds, the surprise is gone - that's exactly what happened to me with Shane shooting Otis when I saw (elsewhere on the net) a suggestive statement that didn't out-right say what happened, but clearly something happened regarding specific characters, and knowing the context of 2x02 I was easily able to figure out what happened ... so as I've said - if you know any of the spoilers out there on TV gossip sites regarding how the rest of the episodes go down, PLEASE SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THEM ON HPOTD. Spoilers suck ... same goes for suggestive spoilers.

[Neil]

Dale - I REALLY hate dale. No-good, spineless, liberal, shit stirring, two faced son of a bitch. i cant wait for him to die..
Don't see it as simple as that. He'd finally started making a connection and put everything he could into find the little girl, only for the world to spit in his face...

[Tricky]

Really good episode and great to have it back on TV again! I cant really add much more to what MZ has said above but regarding Dale, I like his character, and I can see him being set up as quite isolated from the rest of the group as things progress at least in the short term. He knows that Shane has turned into a dangerous hot head and has already been threatened by him more than once, but with Andrea knocking boots with Shane and others from the group agreeing with what Shane did at the barn, as well as Rick still clinging to their past friendship for now, it puts Dale in a bit of a lonely position so far with Glenn being his only real friend at the moment. Looking forward to next week now!

[paranoid101]

Shoot out at the end was epic, also liked how Herschel was drunk but still knew trouble was a brewing and how poor Glen looked so shocked.

[MinionZombie]

Don't see it as simple as that. He'd finally started making a connection and put everything he could into find the little girl, only for the world to spit in his face...

Erm, did you mistake him saying "Daryl" when he in fact said "Dale"? :confused:


Really good episode and great to have it back on TV again! I cant really add much more to what MZ has said above but regarding Dale, I like his character, and I can see him being set up as quite isolated from the rest of the group as things progress at least in the short term. He knows that Shane has turned into a dangerous hot head and has already been threatened by him more than once, but with Andrea knocking boots with Shane and others from the group agreeing with what Shane did at the barn, as well as Rick still clinging to their past friendship for now, it puts Dale in a bit of a lonely position so far with Glenn being his only real friend at the moment. Looking forward to next week now!

Interesting theory regarding Dale in the group ... I think they're all pretty tight as a group in general, but there are definitely certain areas/topics/actions where dividing lines present themselves more.

-- -------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------


I was going to ask about that. Do we know yet if people who die of natural reasons come back?[COLOR="Silver"]

Well there was that one zombie hanging by the neck from a tree in an earlier episode of season two - suicide rather than 'natural causes' per se, but that's proof right there that if you die by non-zombie means you come back ... you could perhaps argue that he died, then got his legs munched, and then that brought him back ... but I don't think the 'zombie bite reanimating a dead body' would really be a workable method, so we're back to the normal thing of any death = zombie, which is consistent with the comics around about this point in their run (i.e. trade paperback/volume #2).

So as such - because we've already seen the effects loud and clear - that can't be what Jenner said, surely? It'd be a blown reveal if that was the case due to the hanged zombie that Daryl and Andrea come across in the woods at night.

[Andy]

Regarding dale, what do you want me to say? i dont like the character.. Firstly i dont think Shane is a "dangerous hot head" at all, far from it, ALL of his actions have been justified in the long run and he has never done anything to endanger the group, the polar oppisite i think, shane has saved the group several times and i could write you a dozen point list of things "hero" rick grimes has done to endanger the group. Dale on the other hand, I didnt like him in the comics and i dont like the direction they have taken with the character in the TV show either, He's very controlling, as he has tried to control andrea and shane both and starts shit stirring when he realises he cant.

I think he's going to try and turn the rest of the group against shane becuase he feels he has a personal vendetta with the man. Lets be honest, He dosnt know what happened to Otis, he is grasping at straws for a reason for the group to turn on shane.

My personal theory is that Dale likes Andrea, They are lovers in the comic, In the TV series however, Andrea does not like reciprocate his feelings, she likes Shane instead and that drives Dale crazy. Think im wrong? Watch the second series again, Dale only starts being hostile with shane AFTER he realises andrea likes him, the whole Otis thing dosnt seem to bother dale before that.

Honestly, i think dale is the most dangerous member of the group and he is out to destroy Shane in front of the group for purely personal reasons. it wouldnt suprise me if Dale set something up so that someone gets killed and the group blames shane.

He is a no good, jealous, controlling, snivelling, liberal coward of a little old man.. i cant wait for him to die. Again.


Well there was that one zombie hanging by the neck from a tree in an earlier episode of season two - suicide rather than 'natural causes' per se, but that's proof right there that if you die by non-zombie means you come back ... you could perhaps argue that he died, then got his legs munched, and then that brought him back ... but I don't think the 'zombie bite reanimating a dead body' would really be a workable method, so we're back to the normal thing of any death = zombie, which is consistent with the comics around about this point in their run (i.e. trade paperback/volume #2).

That guy was bit before he hung himself.. remember the note?

"Got bit, Infection Hit, World went to shit, Might aswell quit."

I put it in my signiture a while back :p

[Tricky]

I always assumed that the hanging zombie was somebody who had been bitten and so hung themselves hoping to not turn into one, but the infection was already in their body so they did anyway. I've never bought into the "everyone who dies regardless of cause turns" thing, I know its cast in stone in zombie lore, but it just doesnt seem right to me, I've always liked the disease explanation because it always seems plausible.

[shootemindehead]

Still not getting the "love" for Shane. To me, he's a c*nt of the lowest kind. Extremely unstable and terribly dangerous to the group.

I'd rather trust Dale than Shane.

I have a problem with Dale sussing out that Shane may have killed Otis though. There's just no real way he could figure that one out.

[Andy]

Still not getting the "love" for Shane. To me, he's a c*nt of the lowest kind. Extremely unstable and terribly dangerous to the group.

I'd rather trust Dale than Shane.

I have a problem with Dale sussing out that Shane may have killed Otis though. There's just no real way he could figure that one out.

I Dont wanna derail this topic becuase there's alot of good points going on, but please tell me one thing shane has done that tells you he is dangerous to the group?

[shootemindehead]

His sheer unstable nature maybe? His violence that erupts?

Not only that, but the character is actually being written as an antagonist?

Shane is a dangerous f*ckin creep, who I wouldn't trust with the most minimal of tasks, nver mind watching my back.

If I was Dale, I'd have blown him away, without a second thought., Dale is right...given the correct parameters He could murder again.

But then, I'm privvy to info that others in the show aren't.

Either way, Shane is a dick (but Jon Bernthal has done a really good job)

[sandrock74]

Lets be honest, He (Dale) dosnt know what happened to Otis, he is grasping at straws for a reason for the group to turn on shane.


Watch the scene of Otis' funeral again. Specifically, watch Dale while Shane gives his account of what went down and Otis' final moments. It looked like Dale wasn't buying Shane's story. Dale's a listener, its what he does.

You might figure he's grasping at straws about his assumption about what Shane did to Otis, but Dale is indeed correct. Remember, they don't ask you how you won, only if you won!

At the end of the day, Shane is damned by his own words...he only cares about Lori and Carl. He has no interest in the rest of the group, he will abandon and/or sacrifice any/all of them for those two. Do you think Rick, Andrea, Glenn, Dale, T-Dog, Carol, and Daryl would take kindly to that? Shane is a loose cannon and a danger to the safety of the group; again, by his own words. Its only a matter of time before his actions cause some major trouble for all!

Still, we're all entitled to our opinions, thats just mine. I'm intrigued by yours. Man, I love this place!

[Neil]

Erm, did you mistake him saying "Daryl" when he in fact said "Dale"? :confused:
Yes! You got a problem with that? :)

My bad! Ignore me as per usual!

[MinionZombie]

That guy was bit before he hung himself.. remember the note?

"Got bit, Infection Hit, World went to shit, Might aswell quit."

I put it in my signiture a while back :p

Quite right - I forgot that part ... move along, nothing to see here. :o


Yes! You got a problem with that? :)

My bad! Ignore me as per usual!

We all make mistakes. :D I'm 1 for 1 right now. :p

...

As for Shane - yes, Jon Bernthal has done an amazing job with him, even though Shane is very unstable and has done some very bad things (the main one being Otis - a case of "doing the wrong thing for the right reasons" in my view - it's not clear-cut in this cut-throat world), you still enjoy watching his character. One thing that Dave Navaro did say that was of some worth (aside from all his idiotic statements for the remainder of The Talking Dead) was that in the scene where he's washing Carol's hands, it was often a case of him speaking about himself ... but it's himself within the context of what went on, so again not as clear cut, but as I said previously it is good to see a softer side to him - but it's clear that he's breaking down up in the old noggin.

Shane's character is too unstable to be a true leader. Rick is the best - he's proven himself in 2x08 to be ruthless when needs be, but he's also not an idiot, nor is he a hot head. He listens to his head as much as his heart, whereas Shane is much more heart ... but oftentimes his heart is somewhat in the wrong place. He's a very complex man, but complex in a potentially dangerous way. Daryl is a great survivalist and he's loyal, so I'd put him in at number two slot for leader personally (indeed that does match a poll they took on The Talking Dead, where poor old Herschel got 1% of the vote :p) ... but with Shane, I couldn't put trust in him because of his lack of consistency.

Lori has known Shane for years, whereas Dale has known him for what, a few weeks, so he doesn't have that entire prior life being around him - he's only seen Shane in the context of the zombie outbreak and so he's able to see something isn't quite right (especially as he saw Shane hold Rick in his shotgun sights), while the likes of Lori are thinking of him in the context of the man they used to know (even though there was that incident at the CDC, which she essentially forgived as Shane made it back with the stuff to save Carl).

[Tricky]

Heres another thing I was wondering about, when Lori was asking Daryl for help, he was sharpening what looked like sticks with a big knife, so was he making traps, makeshift weapons or trying to make home made crossbow bolts?

[MinionZombie]

Heres another thing I was wondering about, when Lori was asking Daryl for help, he was sharpening what looked like sticks with a big knife, so was he making traps, makeshift weapons or trying to make home made crossbow bolts?

I took at as either:
1) Taking his mind off things, or...
2) Fashioning custom arrows.

[Wyldwraith]

About Dale:
Like or dislike Dale, like or dislike Shane, those are opinions and that's great. Why we nosh on every plot tidbit that comes along, because its fun! :)
Anyways, what I absolutely DETEST ABOUT DALE is his hypocrisy! "At least when the world went to sh!t I didn't let it take me down with it" my ass. Dale STOLE Andrea's gun and enlisted the help of others to counter Andrea's attempt(s) to get her property back. As a DIRECT RESULT of this decision on Dale's part, Andrea is subjected to a near-fatal Walker attack and only spared via the incredibly/improbably well-timed intervention of the Maggie-Cavalry. Does Dale show the SLIGHTEST remorse for what his decision/act forced Andrea to go through when the rest of the group tells him of Andrea's extremely close call with a Walker? Not a bit.

I'll skip the smaller intervening stuff (like lying to the group about the RV's condition to prevent anyone from being able to make a pragmatic argument to move on after Sophia was lost)...and right into the STEALING and attempted hiding of the bag of guns in the swamp to, once again, make what Dale thinks should happen the only choice for the group. When Shane tracks him down and takes the guns back, Dale has every opportunity to take Shane down effortlessly. Unable to stomach killing Shane, he buckled during their face-to-face confrontation and instead of calling Shane out with his accusations/suspicions in front of the group openly, Dale starts pouring Anti-Shane poison in first Lori's and then (judging by the scene in the teaser trailer at the end of the episode/preview for tonight's episode) Andrea's ears on the sly and behind Shane's back.

Wow, if Dale "Didn't let the world take him down when it turned to Sh!t" he must've ALREADY BEEN one deceitful, manipulative, selfish and HYPOCRITICAL old fart before the Zombie Apocalypse began. I'm with the previous poster in wishing Dale would just die already. I understand he fills a certain niche on the overall canvas of interpersonal interactions, but Dale stirs up high-school-like drama to try and make those around him do what HE wants them to do, and then sit back and proclaim his hands are spotlessly clean just because he didn't overtly bully anyone. I've known too many people like that in real-life, (And I truly admire the writers' depictions of Dale. They're VERY true-to-life) and people like Dale accomplish nothing besides tearing apart the bonds of friendship, loyalty and trust between those individuals he thinks he knows better than they what they should be doing. If Shane is a problem for the group, Dale is an apocalypse.

[Andy]

About Dale:
Like or dislike Dale, like or dislike Shane, those are opinions and that's great. Why we nosh on every plot tidbit that comes along, because its fun! :)
Anyways, what I absolutely DETEST ABOUT DALE is his hypocrisy! "At least when the world went to sh!t I didn't let it take me down with it" my ass. Dale STOLE Andrea's gun and enlisted the help of others to counter Andrea's attempt(s) to get her property back. As a DIRECT RESULT of this decision on Dale's part, Andrea is subjected to a near-fatal Walker attack and only spared via the incredibly/improbably well-timed intervention of the Maggie-Cavalry. Does Dale show the SLIGHTEST remorse for what his decision/act forced Andrea to go through when the rest of the group tells him of Andrea's extremely close call with a Walker? Not a bit.

I'll skip the smaller intervening stuff (like lying to the group about the RV's condition to prevent anyone from being able to make a pragmatic argument to move on after Sophia was lost)...and right into the STEALING and attempted hiding of the bag of guns in the swamp to, once again, make what Dale thinks should happen the only choice for the group. When Shane tracks him down and takes the guns back, Dale has every opportunity to take Shane down effortlessly. Unable to stomach killing Shane, he buckled during their face-to-face confrontation and instead of calling Shane out with his accusations/suspicions in front of the group openly, Dale starts pouring Anti-Shane poison in first Lori's and then (judging by the scene in the teaser trailer at the end of the episode/preview for tonight's episode) Andrea's ears on the sly and behind Shane's back.

Wow, if Dale "Didn't let the world take him down when it turned to Sh!t" he must've ALREADY BEEN one deceitful, manipulative, selfish and HYPOCRITICAL old fart before the Zombie Apocalypse began. I'm with the previous poster in wishing Dale would just die already. I understand he fills a certain niche on the overall canvas of interpersonal interactions, but Dale stirs up high-school-like drama to try and make those around him do what HE wants them to do, and then sit back and proclaim his hands are spotlessly clean just because he didn't overtly bully anyone. I've known too many people like that in real-life, (And I truly admire the writers' depictions of Dale. They're VERY true-to-life) and people like Dale accomplish nothing besides tearing apart the bonds of friendship, loyalty and trust between those individuals he thinks he knows better than they what they should be doing. If Shane is a problem for the group, Dale is an apocalypse.


Wyldwraith i f*cking love you man, somebody else on this forum see's dale for what he is. i was starting to think id missed something..

I Honestly dont think shane is a danger to the group, he has never done anything to endanger people and has always been there to protect them when they need it, if he is being written as a antagonist then i honestly dont see it, people love saying he's a hot head and dangerous and everything but when i ask for specific examples of this nobody can ever answer :lol: Dale on the other hand, like you said, is a manipulative, deceitful, jealous, controlling coward and he's shown it several times. I see him being a major problem for the group if he continues the path he is going down.

[rongravy]

About Dale:
Wow, if Dale "Didn't let the world take him down when it turned to Sh!t" he must've ALREADY BEEN one deceitful, manipulative, selfish and HYPOCRITICAL old fart before the Zombie Apocalypse began. I'm with the previous poster in wishing Dale would just die already. I understand he fills a certain niche on the overall canvas of interpersonal interactions, but Dale stirs up high-school-like drama to try and make those around him do what HE wants them to do, and then sit back and proclaim his hands are spotlessly clean just because he didn't overtly bully anyone. I've known too many people like that in real-life, (And I truly admire the writers' depictions of Dale. They're VERY true-to-life) and people like Dale accomplish nothing besides tearing apart the bonds of friendship, loyalty and trust between those individuals he thinks he knows better than they what they should be doing. If Shane is a problem for the group, Dale is an apocalypse.
Yeah, I'd hate to have a Dale at work, which I have had.
All up in your business, trying to be all behind the scenes and stuff...
Creepin'.
Shane'd just be trying to bang everybody.
Screwed a little, or screwed alot. Take your pick.

[Neil]

Dale on the other hand, like you said, is a manipulative, deceitful, jealous, controlling coward and he's shown it several times. I see him being a major problem for the group if he continues the path he is going down.

Wow! I don't see that! And "deceitful?" Really?

[Andy]

Completely.. read my post near the bottom of the previous page, i put my theory about dale in full.

[MinionZombie]

Wow! I don't see that! And "deceitful?" Really?

I'm with you Neil, I don't see Dale as this twisted bastard that some of these guys see him as, either. :confused:

[AcesandEights]

I'm with you Neil, I don't see Dale as this twisted bastard that some of these guys see him as, either. :confused:

Seems to be one of the characters people are currently split on. I see him as savvy and knowing he has to "work" people, like he did when he lied in an attempt to stall the group while searching for Sofia. So the character definitely has it in him to read people and react socially to manipulate things to where he feels they need to go, but a lot of people are reading maliciousness into his character where foolishness is more usually the more likely offense (unilaterally removing the firearms).

All in all, he is another person who is (usually) acting in a believable, but not always likeable manner.

[Andy]

Seems to be one of the characters people are currently split on. I see him as savvy and knowing he has to "work" people, like he did when he lied in an attempt to stall the group while searching for Sofia. So the character definitely has it in him to read people and react socially to manipulate things to where he feels they need to go, but a lot of people are reading maliciousness into his character where foolishness is more usually the more likely offense (unilaterally removing the firearms).

All in all, he is another person who is (usually) acting in a believable, but not always likeable manner.

In other words, he has a need to control people.

The whole beef with shane is down to dale liking andrea and andrea liking shane. Did anybody see my post on the previous page? :rockbrow:

[Neil]

Be too much of a coincidence if they come to blows with the "other group" and......Merle is one of them?

[Thorn]

In other words, he has a need to control people.

The whole beef with shane is down to dale liking andrea and andrea liking shane. Did anybody see my post on the previous page? :rockbrow:

This is in fact the case as I see it, Dale is not a cunning manipulator of people, who is twirling his mustache trying to move chess pieces around in a game of thrones-esque manner. He is an old guy who has a thing for Andrea, and does not want to see her hurt by a guy who he does not like or trust and who he sees as a threat both to the group and to his own happiness.

Think about what Dale has seen from Shane, from what he has heard from Shane, from what he has endured from Shane... he has EVERY right to view him as a bad character.

1. Rick in Shane's sights in the woods.
2. Relationship with Lori and Shane
3. Shane beating the crap out of people with undue force in the camp.
4. The whole Otis thing.
5. Situation in the woods with the guns.
6. Barnageddon
...

I am sure I am missing a lot but add into that Shane moving in on the woman he either covets for his own, or is trying to protect in fatherly fashion and you have a man who is going to do what he can to make his voice and opinion heard.

I just don't see Dale as evil, is he pushing his agenda? Sure, but who isn't?

-- -------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------


Be too much of a coincidence if they come to blows with the "other group" and......Merle is one of them?

Based on one of the previews I had the same thought... it would be VERY interesting.

[Andy]

From watching episode 8 again, i think Shane is starting to realise he needs to take a less hardened approach with the group, his dialogue with Carol seemed genuine to me. I also think Rick is starting to see that Shane is right about alot of things and man up. The effects of Barnageddon (i like that thorn btw) are far reaching and i think as a result, Rick and Shane are coming together personality wise.

Meanwhile Dale is just a cock and waiting to die.

if you are reading the comics but not got past the prison yet, do not click below.

I really hope they kill him off the same way they do in the comics where he gets bit by walkers, captured by cannibals, knocked out, dismembered, then wakes up while their all eating his legs, thrown back at the group and finally shot by rick. Id LOVE to see that happen to the old c*nt!!

[AcesandEights]

if you are reading the comics but not got past the prison yet, do not click below.

I really hope they kill him off the same way they do in the comics where he gets bit by walkers, captured by cannibals, knocked out, dismembered, then wakes up while their all eating his legs, thrown back at the group and finally shot by rick. Id LOVE to see that happen to the old c*nt!!

I just have to ask out of morbid curiosity: who does Dale remind you of?

[shootemindehead]

I just don't see Dale as evil, is he pushing his agenda? Sure, but who isn't?

Agreed. I think Dale generally does things that for the betterment of the group, as a whole. Even if they are misguided sometimes and downright silly at others (re: Andrea at the CDC and the gun thing). His agenda seems to be for the group, because the group is his last shot. He's an old guy, with not a lot of time left in relative terms and the group is all that he's got left.

Sure, he has a thing for Andrea, but how that is going to manifest itself in the TV show remains to be seen.

Shane, on the other hand, is chipping away at the harmony the group has, or can have, with every passing episode. His actions are EXTREMELY selfish. He covets his "best mates" wife and he pushes the situation in a direction HE wants to see it go, regardless of any detrimental effects. On top of that, he is an EXTREMELY distrustful person and is giving off an air of danger, that's having a negative effect on the group overall.

He can be a useful addition to the group and can be correct at times (re: the barn, which in the end worked out OK because Rick intervened with Hershel and calmed the fiery situation down), but he is clearly a man who is cracking under the stress of the situation and the realisation of the fact that he cannot and will not possess his friends wife in the end. Even THAT alone makes him a danger to the "harmony" of the group overall and Dale and Lori (and Rick too) is realising it.

Like "not getting the love for Shane", I am also "not getting the hate for Dale".

[Trin]

I'm going to avoid all the Dale, Shane hot head, Shane/Dale, Shane/Carol, Rick gunfight, Lori car crash stuff. I have opinions, of course (I always do) but that stuff has been well discussed.

I want to focus on two things:

1) They did a very good job with Herschel in the aftermath of barnaggedon. I bought that he didn't know about Sophia. I loved how they confronted it with Shane accusing him of knowing. I loved how he had a self-destructive impulse. I bought that he re-evaluated himself and his leadership. It was well written and well acted. His character seems much more believable now. The situation seems much more believable now.

2) The possum zombie during barnaggedon... Call me nitpicky but I really see this event as indicative of what is wrong with TWD. It just makes no sense whatsoever and can only be evidence that the director wanted a cheap scare moment. From a plausibility perspective we must conclude that the zombies can lie in wait to snatch their prey. That implies intelligence and if they are intelligent in any way then it supports Herschel's position of trying to save them. I don't believe they meant to do that. But at the same time it got in there. Leading to the bigger concern that NO ONE associated with this series stopped during filming, scratched their head, and said, "Hey, this is glaringly stupid and doesn't make sense." Woe is us if the girl somehow got infected by that.

Overall a good start to the second half of season 2.

[shootemindehead]

Cheap scare, nothing more. It was just bad film making.

Perhaps zombies can be stunned? Maybe she got stunned and was disorintated until the girl went over?

[ShadowMan]

If you look closely when the "posum xombie" is shot, she gets hit in the side of the head/face. This could have affected her to the point where she was just dazed and not completely shut down.

[MinionZombie]

If you look closely when the "posum xombie" is shot, she gets hit in the side of the head/face. This could have affected her to the point where she was just dazed and not completely shut down.

Aye - in the shoot out at the end of 2x07 I saw that that zombie went down with just a shot to the jaw, I was figuring maybe the angle 'grazed the brain' or stunned it ... but I did spot that it wasn't shot in the forehead, so I was like "hey..." but of course that came back.

Now, how I would have staged that scene is like this:

The girl (who is now in a spot of bother - surely she was scratched or something ... I think we might see some examination of infection and contamination here) is distraught at seeing her zombified mother gunned down, and all is quiet - but then they hear this god awful gurgling rasping wheezing sound coming from the body pile (but so far no movement) so they're all looking around trying to spot which one is still in the game - then they notice some twitching and movement - the girl darts over, seeing that her zombie mama is still kicking, she's scratched out-of-shot, they drag her away and Andrea still finishes the job like an Amish farmer. ;)

A slight tweak - essentially replacing a not-so-plausible jump with a spine-tingling chill ... and I firmly believe the latter lasts far longer than the former.

[Thorn]

Agreed. I think Dale generally does things that for the betterment of the group, as a whole. Even if they are misguided sometimes and downright silly at others (re: Andrea at the CDC and the gun thing). His agenda seems to be for the group, because the group is his last shot. He's an old guy, with not a lot of time left in relative terms and the group is all that he's got left.

Sure, he has a thing for Andrea, but how that is going to manifest itself in the TV show remains to be seen.

Shane, on the other hand, is chipping away at the harmony the group has, or can have, with every passing episode. His actions are EXTREMELY selfish. He covets his "best mates" wife and he pushes the situation in a direction HE wants to see it go, regardless of any detrimental effects. On top of that, he is an EXTREMELY distrustful person and is giving off an air of danger, that's having a negative effect on the group overall.

He can be a useful addition to the group and can be correct at times (re: the barn, which in the end worked out OK because Rick intervened with Hershel and calmed the fiery situation down), but he is clearly a man who is cracking under the stress of the situation and the realisation of the fact that he cannot and will not possess his friends wife in the end. Even THAT alone makes him a danger to the "harmony" of the group overall and Dale and Lori (and Rick too) is realising it.

Like "not getting the love for Shane", I am also "not getting the hate for Dale".

Very well said, Dale is Dale he is an old guy with eyes and ears on everyone. He is not a fighter, he is contributing as best he can using his own special talents. Those being mechanics/automotive, and being the eyes and ears of the camp. Is he overly concerned about Shane? I don't think so given what he has seen of the man. Is he overly in the business of Andrea? Maybe but he has a thing for her parental or otherwise and that leads a person to overstep your bounds ESPECIALLY when you see them going down a road you yourself can not condone or justify. He is an old timer he has been around the block once or twice before, his block just was free of flesh eating undead ghouls.