Planning my defense escape strategy

[Thorn]

We have often talked on these forums (over the many years we have been around) about what we would do in a zombie situation, I have shared that I walk into a new place and immediately start planning my escape or defense plan.

We were moved into a new building at work and it really presents a challenge I am going to post some pictures, because while there are challenges, there are some interesting assets and a river not far away.

Some of the interesting assets? There are boats in the parking garage, a collection of cars that are stored there, gasoline, welding tools, all manner of maintenance supplies, an onsite mechanics shop for vehicles, extra gasoline, it is a five floor building with a flat roof which can come in handy, and buildings nearby you can use for rooftop escapes.

The bad?

Located in a downtown city area, not overly large but there are way too many people here where I would feel comfortable long term, there is a police station very close, lots of restaurants, and town hall that could be easily fortified.

I am going to post pictures to see what you all think they will be added shortly.

In conclusion it is a tough one, I don't like city but if I was to get pinned down in here I think I could make it work short term.

Worst part about it is the other people in the area, best part is the fact it is very self sufficient minus food and conventional weapons which are available nearby.

[Philly_SWAT]

I look forward to the pictures!

[Christopher Jon]

Look out your window?

How many people do you see?

You'd have fewer zombies than that hanging around your building.

The big silly flaw of many zombie movies is that where ever you are there will always be hundreds of zombies waiting for you outside. That would't be the case unless you were already in a heavily populated area and all of those people instantly turned into zombies. Unless you were outside yelling Here zombie, zombie, zombies wouldn't be that big of a deal unless your zombies have an internal find the living GPS and travel to your location from miles away. Would you really have so many zombies surrounding all four sides of the building plus surrounding all of the neighboring buildings that you wouldn't be able to get in and out.

The problem people faced in Night: No car and it's a long walk back to town. The problem people faced in Dawn: Wasn't the zombies, it was the bikers. The problem people faced in Day: Their own stupidity.

Three guys with baseball bats could walk around a zombie plagued city and their biggest problem would be sore feat.

[Thorn]

Look out your window?

How many people do you see?

You'd have fewer zombies than that hanging around your building.

The big silly flaw of many zombie movies is that where ever you are there will always be hundreds of zombies waiting for you outside. That would't be the case unless you were already in a heavily populated area and all of those people instantly turned into zombies. Unless you were outside yelling Here zombie, zombie, zombies wouldn't be that big of a deal unless your zombies have an internal find the living GPS and travel to your location from miles away. Would you really have so many zombies surrounding all four sides of the building plus surrounding all of the neighboring buildings that you wouldn't be able to get in and out.

The problem people faced in Night: No car and it's a long walk back to town. The problem people faced in Dawn: Wasn't the zombies, it was the bikers. The problem people faced in Day: Their own stupidity.

Three guys with baseball bats could walk around a zombie plagued city and their biggest problem would be sore feat.

Pictures going up tomorrow first

[AcesandEights]

I look forward to the pictures!

Yup, I was thinking the same thing. A lot of people say these types of threads get old, but I see them so seldom nowadays and I know there's a lot of people here who can think outside of the box.

Bring it, Thorn :thumbsup:

[Christopher Jon]

A lot of people say these types of threads get old, but I see them so seldom nowadays and I know there's a lot of people here who can think outside of the box.
It's an embarrassingly fun topic that quickly goes full retard once it's raided by knuckleheads who claim to own an arsenal that would make the local police envious, think they have the tactical skills of a Navy SEAL and have six years worth of all necessary supplies required to survive any fantasy apocalypse stocked up in their bug-out shelter. Most of these knuckleheads aren't even old enough to get a drivers license.

As for me, when it all goes down I'm just going to crawl into a box.

[sandrock74]

As for me, when it all goes down I'm just going to crawl into a box.

I'm going to single handedly build a rocket ship and fly to the moon, like Apollo Creed! I'll be the Moon King on the zombie free moon :)

[Thorn]

Okay here is a link to the pictures I have taken adding more now...

https://plus.google.com/photos/102045744369491322461/albums/5709077018122169249?authkey=COfE5-Tr0ZyTLw


Please let me know if you can see it ok.

[AcesandEights]

Please let me know if you can see it ok.

Yup, no problem viewing.

Man, the elevators in smaller buildings always make me think of...well, you know.

[Thorn]

Some basic info. 5 stories. Doors at the front, and the back. Front door is glass, back/side door is glass. Front door is street level. Back door is 2ns floor and opens onto a parking lot. Two garages separated by mason block walls with a narrow passage through. Entry into the far garage is through a sliding metal door, no glass. Operated by Key. Have to exit your vehicle to use the key. Other garage is closest to the building and you walk through this from the far garage through the narrow cinder block opening. That has a garage door with glass windows. The tool shop is here with all the welding and electrical supplies. The far garage has fuel and generators also boats, cars, and a camper.

4th and 5th floor have security doors and restricted access which I have the ability to enter (I work on 5)

There are cameras throughout the building, 4th and 5th are state of the art with sound and remote entry for people from 2 stations.

-- -------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------


Yup, no problem viewing.

Man, the elevators in smaller buildings always make me think of...well, you know.


Me too... creeps me out at least a couple time s a week ;)

[AcesandEights]

Out of curiosity and because I always like the idea of controlling building access by jamming up doors that lead to stairwells and the stairwells themselves, how cramped are the stairwells in this building? Cramped is good for the purpose of what I'd be thinking of doing.

-- -------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

Nevermind, you actually took a pic of the stairwells, it seems and they do look pretty cramped.

Excellent.

[Thorn]

Agreed! Just wide enough for two people to pass each other shoulder to shoulder this building is old and kind of intimate ;)

I was thinking that controlling the stairs and elevator would be key, as would be fortifying the front, back, and garage doors as a priority. Since we have a lot of resources on site, welding tools, metal, wood, lots of cars both new and just stored here I think we can say we have materials.

Now it may not be ideal, since there are 4 points of entry to control, but if it had to be done I think it could and I was approaching it fro ma "had to" situation. So making the most of what was here.

All pictures now uploaded, I can explain any of them if there are questions ;) I can also post Google street view and maps of the area I am not all that worried about being hunted down by internet people, not even crazy Romero fans like myself ;)

[Christopher Jon]

Gettin' juiggy wit it.

I'll use the scenario that power goes off one week after the outbreak and 4 days before you move in. This gives you three days to settle in.

I'm going to focus primarily on zombie defense and not human defense. This post would be way too long and no matter what you do, somebody could still get in. Too many floors and windows.

Locking all of the doors and preventing access to the stairwell is all you'd really need to do. Zombies aren't breaking down those steel stairwell doors. After that, never use the first floor.

But that's not much fun, so...

Lighting. Due to the size of the building that place is going to turn into a giant black hole once the power goes out. Your only real option is is to either prop open the outer rooms doors or remove the doors (can be used as construction material) to allow natural light in. The inner rooms will probably all be to dark for practical use and at night it's gonna be a spooky place. Not much you can do about lighting in the garage but I doubt you'd be down there much anyway.

I would abandon the first floor completely. Take anything you need and use any material available (doors, coke machined etc... ) to block as many doors and windows possible with the main priority being the stairwell. If you have the building keys. Locking up the stairwell doors should be sufficient. I'm assuming you can get to the garage from the stairwell.

You probably wouldn't be using the second floor much except for access to the elevated parking garage. If you have the time and material you could take the same security measures here as you did with the first floor. The raised parking entrance would probably be your primary entrance and exit point.

You'd probably be living up on the top floor and the roof.

I would try to keep access to that second floor outdoor parking. It's elevated and the ramp looks the only access. That's a big area you could use for a number of purposes so I'd try to block the ramp from the bottom. Those big blue garbage dumpsters (if you have enough) would probably do it. They roll so you can move them but they are heavy enough that zombies aren't moving them. Use one of those large cube trucks (if you have the keys) as a secondary block at the top of the ramp, just back it up. Maybe part a car next to the cube truck to block off the bottom so zombies (if they get past the dumpsters) couldn't crawl under the truck. Since this area is fairly large and clear you should be able to look out the building windows to check if that area is safe before you go out there. Leaving the ramp barrier movable means you'd still be able to drive in and out if necessary.. You need to unload all of the loot you picked up at zombie wal-mart somewhere.

The size of the building is a huge advantage. Looks like you could enter/exit from a lot of different points and even use a ladder to enter/exit from the elevated parking. Unless the entire city population of zombies is waiting outside you should be able to get in and out, scavenge or do whatever whenever you want.

Your building is as solid as any. Needing food and water will be your enemy.

Plant a garden on the rooftop and elevated parking area (have fun hauling dirt), sit back, make babies.

[Thorn]

Christopher Jon (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/member.php?3453-Christopher-Jon)
Great post, very well thought out and it mirrors a lot of what I would do.

I would barricade the front glass doors completely. from outside and inside. Moving vehicles in front of the door (box truck possibly) and destroying the tires, siphoning the gas, and destroying the engine, and axle making it harder to move. I would use filling cabinets filled with heavy items inside to barricade the doors from the sides and weld them together to make them hard to move, also using chains run through them to secure them to the walls. The front stair case would be sealed off completely with office items like desks, doors taken off the hinges, and other items. Possibly heavy objects like car engines to make it harder to get by. I would secure the front stairs at the 2nd floor level most securely with another layer at floor one.

The back door to the garage on one has a door to the stairs near it which would be kept locked garage door already is. I would secure this door with a cross beam and buttress. in case the garage was breached. I would make arrangements to do the same on the other side in case we had to retreat into the garage.

Second floor as I said would just be stair access the glass side door would be fortified with metal, and welded into place. This would be barricaded in a manner that allowed access but no easily and a guard would be posted here once the power goes out rendering cameras useless.

3rd-4th floor would be empty space all scavenged for material, building supplies moved to the garage, all other needed resources to the 5th floor and roof. Fifth floor has amazing security, and it is hard to access I would keep the elevator here and lock it down. It is divided into two parts I would make one a sleeping area, and one a functioning living area. There are offices for planning, and a kitchen for food prep and storage. It has a lot of bottled water, and 2 refrigerators for while power lasted.

Garage would be secured welding metal over the doors, only one would be left operable. This however would still be secured, fortified and both would have vehicles in front of them buttressing them (wide vehicles).

Storm drains in the floors would be secured.

A caravan would be prepared using the two boats hooked to trucks, and the camper would be as well with vehicles in front and behind that were not carrying the boats and trailer.

Escape plan would be to use this to get to the river if need be and possible, beyond that we would use nearby roof access..

Using the dumpsters and box trucks for barricading the ramp to the upper parking area would be a must and I would knock out the small bridge to the side door making getting in harder.

Crops long term would be grown on the roof and or upper parking garage, water catch basins set up as well as irrigation for the crops.

Fuel and generators would be used sparingly, and all non essential vehicles or vehicles used as non moving barricades would be drained of fuel and any other flammable.

[Ragnarr]

"Well, all we need now is a deck of cards." -Lt. Ripley

From my medievalist perspective, a well thought out and defended castle is a great thing to behold, but a determined enemy will usually find a way to breach its defenses. I will say however that it appears like you have all of your bases covered bro. ;)

Remember, your enemy is relentless. They do not require water. They do not require food. They do not require sleep. They do not get sick. They do not miss their families or their homes. They have nothing but time to claw with dead fingers at your walls. Even if they were to loosen just one grain of cement per day in their clawing, eventually that cement will wear thin.

They will get in... eventually.



[creepy pipe organ music here]

[Thorn]

"Well, all we need now is a deck of cards." -Lt. Ripley

From my medievalist perspective, a well thought out and defended castle is a great thing to behold, but a determined enemy will usually find a way to breach its defenses. I will say however that it appears like you have all of your bases covered bro. ;)

Remember, your enemy is relentless. They do not require water. They do not require food. They do not require sleep. They do not get sick. They do not miss their families or their homes. They have nothing but time to claw with dead fingers at your walls. Even if they were to loosen just one grain of cement per day in their clawing, eventually that cement will wear thin.

They will get in... eventually.



[creepy pipe organ music here]

I might not sleep tonight! JESUS!

Nah kidding, and you are right so I think sweeps to clean the walls of the undead would be required, or laying low as much as possible or both. I am most concerned with humans of course... not sure what added precautions other than making baricades non movable unlike the trucks in dawn could help. Booby traps? Burning oil on the roof?

[Ragnarr]

Hmm yes. And then you have to remember what type of zombie apocalypse we're talking about. Is it a GAR world where any death results in reanimation? If so, there would be potential future zombies already INSIDE your defenses. There you are safe within your z-proof building and you have a significant other you're sleeping with. During the night, your partner dies due to some previously unknown medical condition. Hopefully, morning will come just before he or she enjoys YOU for breakfast! If it's a Snyder zombie thing, you should be okay to do the horizontal labamba and fall asleep afterwards... without getting munched in a bad way that is. :)

[more creepy pipe organ music heh heh]

Regarding the dangers of living hostiles and such, it'll require a bit more defensive planning. The trick as I see it is to have the "right amount" of allies within your stronghold to repel hostile groups smaller than a full blown well-equipped and professional army. Then again, if there are TOO many allies within your group, you'll be going through supplies/resources much faster. Not enough allies and you risk your defenses being overrun by even moderately sized groups of hostiles. Also, like the original Dawn movie, if the hostiles break your perimeter even in a failed attempt, that gives the ever patient undead their opening.

One advantage that you'll have over living invaders is... that hungry horde of undead out there with them. Best strategy is to first eliminate any ghouls outside your stronghold, then lay low. Living raiders passing by may not know that you're there at all, and without the undead scratching at your perimeter day-by-day, you and yours should do well.

[Christopher Jon]

Some other stuff to keep it real,

Gas starts going bad after a couple of months and could be useless in a year. Batteries also go bad. Best find yourself one of those crazy scientists from The Discovery Channels The Colony if you want anything electrical or mechanical, unless you're a crazy scientist.

I have no idea how to weld, do you? Not sure if this is something you can figure out in a couple of hours. Learning how to weld isn't high on my priority list when my now dead boss is trying to chew on my ankle.

Disease will be a huge problem. Thousands to millions of dead wandering around can't be a good thing. Rotting is usually ignored in zombie stories so I guess it's up to you if your dead are rotting or are magically pickled and preserved for all eternity.

The feral animal population will explode. Cats and dogs plus other predatory animals (wolves) that have been driven away from urban areas. Zombies might be slow but a pack of wild dogs is a GTFOH situation. The rat population will also increase which will bring even more disease problems. Looting Costco could lead to a deadly case of hanta virus. Yes, rats are going to poop on those pallets of canned tuna.

Collecting water for drinking isn't going to work unless you live somewhere it rains at least once a week. You'll probably end up drinking out of the toilets by week two. Yummy. Gotta solve that water supply fast.

[Sammich]

I have always wondered about using a train for a survival base. It could haul lots of supplies along and it would be easily defendible. Motorcycles and small buggie type vehicles could also be kept onboard for scouting and scavaging. The only drawback would be finding a crew that knows how to keep the thing running and sources of fuel.

[Thorn]

Some other stuff to keep it real,

Gas starts going bad after a couple of months and could be useless in a year. Batteries also go bad. Best find yourself one of those crazy scientists from The Discovery Channels The Colony if you want anything electrical or mechanical, unless you're a crazy scientist.

I have no idea how to weld, do you? Not sure if this is something you can figure out in a couple of hours. Learning how to weld isn't high on my priority list when my now dead boss is trying to chew on my ankle.

Disease will be a huge problem. Thousands to millions of dead wandering around can't be a good thing. Rotting is usually ignored in zombie stories so I guess it's up to you if your dead are rotting or are magically pickled and preserved for all eternity.

The feral animal population will explode. Cats and dogs plus other predatory animals (wolves) that have been driven away from urban areas. Zombies might be slow but a pack of wild dogs is a GTFOH situation. The rat population will also increase which will bring even more disease problems. Looting Costco could lead to a deadly case of hanta virus. Yes, rats are going to poop on those pallets of canned tuna.

Collecting water for drinking isn't going to work unless you live somewhere it rains at least once a week. You'll probably end up drinking out of the toilets by week two. Yummy. Gotta solve that water supply fast.

Yes I can weld, and in fact for power I can make my own solar cells out of stuff from home depot very easily I posted I how to at one point on the forums (not sure which version don't think it is these). The onyl area I feel I am really weak in is my use of fire arms but I have started shooting recently so I aim to have that corrected soon.

Gas going bad is a real concern, I am not a crazy scientist ;)

I live in upstate NY it rains and snows a lot actually, and we have drains that run under the building, and lots of roof space for collecting. Also for short term in an office building there are TONS of water coolers we have a lot just on 4 and 5, and a silly amount of jugs of water so short term we are okay there after the water stops flowing.

-- -------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------


I have always wondered about using a train for a survival base. It could haul lots of supplies along and it would be easily defendible. Motorcycles and small buggie type vehicles could also be kept onboard for scouting and scavaging. The only drawback would be finding a crew that knows how to keep the thing running and sources of fuel.


That is VERY interesting. I guess I would be afraid of humans sabotaging the tracks if they wanted to stop us, but other than that it seems like a really interesting idea to turn over in my head as a way to survive.

-- -------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------




One advantage that you'll have over living invaders is... that hungry horde of undead out there with them. Best strategy is to first eliminate any ghouls outside your stronghold, then lay low. Living raiders passing by may not know that you're there at all, and without the undead scratching at your perimeter day-by-day, you and yours should do well.

Agreed.

[Ragnarr]

Watched this program on one of the cable channels recently; some sort of survivalist themed thing. Dude made his own diesel fuel using grease from a diner's grease trap (every place that frys food has one in the back of the store), and a couple of easily found chemicals. Cooked the mixture in a pot, and poured it into a SUV with a diesel engine (obviously) filtered with a cloth over the gas can spicket (don't want rogue french fries getting stuck in your vehicle's fuel filter y'know). Was pretty interesting and I'm sure you can find the exact instructions how to do this online. VROOM!

Christopher Jon makes a good point in that disease will be a major concern, as will any medical and dental issues. Having a medical doctor in your survival group is a BIG plus (yes Rick from TWD, even a DVM will do in a pinch. They pull 8 years in medical school just like any MD).

[Christopher Jon]

Yes I can weld, and in fact for power I can make my own solar cells out of stuff from home depot very easily
Hope you've got room for one more 'cus I'm moving in to your bunker. I like the conveniences of modern living.

Your building looks like a good location. You'd know better than the rest of us what supplies, material and resources you have on site.

From a security perspective it's not bad. It's a large building which makes security tougher but depending on your group size it should be manageable.

It's a big square building so two guards on the rooftop 24/7 should be enough. Too many variables here to get really detailed, undead situation at the street level, blind spots, can somebody sneak up on your location etc... I'm also inclined to believe that most people aren't going to stick around or attempt to siege a building if they are being shot at. It looks good in the movies but I don't think it's realistic unless the group is incredibly desperate or has overwhelming numbers or firepower.

If I were trying to break in I'd do it at night and quietly. Once I'm in I'd find someplace to hide out on a floor you're not using, take my time, learn your routine and hit you when I have the advantage. I'm the Alien, you're the crew of the Nostromo.



Watched this program on one of the cable channels recently; some sort of survivalist themed thing
The Colony on The Discovery Channel was an interesting look at what can be done with the right mix of people.

[Thorn]

Building is on a corner, parking lot to one side so open space and clear field of fire, streets all around one spot of concern above is an adjoining/adjacent building I would want to secure for means of escape as needed. Would need a guard or two up there as said.

Street on the other 2 sides so really it is pretty easily fortified, and there are a lot of targets not too far away for scavenging, no one would really want this building until it was fortified and by then it would be too late. I agree siege situations by survivors usually make no sense, cost too much in men and resources. Then after you break in you have to fix what was ruined. Good luck with that.

Will be looking up the fuel thing, that is key information and will print it out and add it to my offline emergency preparedness folder ;)

You and just about anyone from HPotD are more than welcome in our bunker, and to be honest on second inspection this morning the snow plows and such in the garage would make for amazing buttresses for the garage doors either with a vehicle in front of them against the door or by themselves for easy of movement in and out.

The boats are a god send especially with the Mohawk river so close, and islands not far off, just as another option for escape. Only concerning part is the lock system.

Weapons and ammo are a major short coming of the location, but make shift weapons and tools are readily available this place is uniquely loaded.

Again not ideal, but where is? The moon? There is a castle not too far away I always think I could escape too as well if we needed to try and caravan out or boat out it is a good as any destination IMO.

[AcesandEights]

I have always wondered about using a train for a survival base. It could haul lots of supplies along and it would be easily defendible. Motorcycles and small buggie type vehicles could also be kept onboard for scouting and scavaging. The only drawback would be finding a crew that knows how to keep the thing running and sources of fuel.

I'd be paranoid about major track problems, bridges down and power issues, but short term it would be interesting, I'd think. I wrote a short story ages ago about the last (unauthorized) train run out of a quarantined city and that was fun to research and write. I should dig that up and update it.

[Thorn]

I'd be paranoid about major track problems, bridges down and power issues, but short term it would be interesting, I'd think. I wrote a short story ages ago about the last (unauthorized) train run out of a quarantined city and that was fun to research and write. I should dig that up and update it.

Please do, I would love to read it ;)

[Ragnarr]

I'm not so sure that a functioning/running train would be the way to go. Too noisey, too "hey look at these survivors" for me. I would think it's best to stay low key and out of sight as much as possible. Perhaps a train yard with lots of parked trains and storage cars (hopefully containing useable goods).

[Mike70]

i'm still sticking to my original plan. the ohio river. less than 2 miles away, straight shot down a hill. i've got a kayak that will carry all the basic necessities and i live on the edge of the cincy metro area. there is nothing to the east of me but very small towns, woods, farms and deer. the southern part of ohio and the north/northeastern parts of kentucky are extremely sparsely inhabited. the ohio has lots of tributaries, some large, some small - many of which i've checked out.

it is pretty much the middle of nowhere. a quick paddle to the ky side of the river and then east up river until i find a nice deserted spot, of which there are many in this part of the country.

[Christopher Jon]

I'll just fall into a catatonic state waiting for the internet to start working again. Hundreds of years later archaeologists will find me fossilized in my chair. They will dub me Space Jockey.

[Legion2213]

Yup, I was thinking the same thing. A lot of people say these types of threads get old, but I see them so seldom nowadays and I know there's a lot of people here who can think outside of the box.

Bring it, Thorn :thumbsup:

They are wrong. :D

Not a proper zombie fan unless you size up every new situation and start making plans for the inevitable outbreak of zombiegeddon.

[Thorn]

They are wrong. :D

Not a proper zombie fan unless you size up every new situation and start making plans for the inevitable outbreak of zombiegeddon.


Amen brother!

[Ragnarr]

i'll just fall into a catatonic state waiting for the internet to start working again. Hundreds of years later archaeologists will find me fossilized in my chair. They will dub me space jockey.

lololololol Well said Chris, well said!

[Mike70]

I'll just fall into a catatonic state waiting for the internet to start working again. Hundreds of years later archaeologists will find me fossilized in my chair. They will dub me Space Jockey.

:lol:

i'm sure there are folks who would literally die from facebook being down and not being able to post: "being attacked by zombies!" while tagging all the people they are trying to survive with in their status.

[Ragnarr]

:lol:

i'm sure there are folks who would literally die from facebook being down and not being able to post: "being attacked by zombies!" while tagging all the people they are trying to survive with in their status.

lol Mike. You just gave me an idea to mess with my FB friends! "Being attacked by Zombies! Just when I thought my day couldn't get any worse... or better!"