What the fook is wrong with people???

[Mike70]

it is amazing how neglectful, cruel,and nasty people can be. seems like a lot of people too over a wide area. now, i'm a fucking bona fide sociopath and i wouldn't treat my worst enemy like this.

this is about a couple who withheld medical treatment from their son, who had cancer, for 29 MONTHS until he died, emaciated and in a condition the judge described as "looking like a concentration camp victim." their reason? they couldn't afford the treatments.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/30481842/detail.html

i don't know who i am more pissed with. these two fucking morons who are going to jail for 8 years or with the fact that the US is the only western country without some form of govt. sponsor health care (unless you happen to be a veteran like i am) for every citizen.

i don't expect nor want the govt. to be paying for every damn medical treatment under the sun but cancer treatments for a child? come the fuck on. who can look at themselves in the mirror and say those aren't tax dollars well spent.

bitch of it is, if this kid's parents hadn't let their pride get in the way, the kid would probably have been covered under medicaid (which is bullshit but better than nothing). plus, it is illegal for medical practitioners to turn away patients because they can't pay. now, that will stick you with a giant bill and bankruptcy no doubt (over 50% of all bankruptcies in the US revolve around medical expenses) but at least this kid would've had some kind of chance.

this fucking country can spend over half a trillion dollars a year on "defense" but talk about spending a dime on keeping people healthy and there are people out there ready to get violent with you.

[SymphonicX]

Wow.....all I can say is....wow....

I'm probably going to be speaking out of my arse here....so please correct me if I've misinterpretted this....but this has really really angered me.

The article doesn't give any details on how much the boy's medical treatment would have been? It says the family paid £87 for dog flea treatment - so does that mean the family could have cured this boy's cancer for less than £87?
Or would the bill be, as you implied, potentially hundreds of thousands? Why is the £87 even getting mentioned?

This is nothing short of f**king disgraceful. Do I blame the parents? No....! Maybe its because I can't see the bigger picture? How can a country let this happen? He was just a kid....

Who the fuck still thinks paying for medical treatment is a good idea?

I'm so so glad I don't live in the US. The healthcare system is beyond a joke. In the UK it's a "joke" - but in America - it's just evil. Plain evil. "Sorry you don't have the money to afford to live, off you go". How is this workable? You really have the worst health system in the world.

The bottom line is, if those parents could have walked into a doctor's and gotten consistent and free healthcare - he'd be here today. Unless there really was some willful neglect, but how can that be possible to determine when regardless, they would have had a bill for an indeterminate amount??

I mean SURELY kids should get free healthcare?!!!!!! Or does the system just damn EVERYONE with no cash? Even the innocent kids who have the misfortune of being born to the wrong financial background?

Yep, the system is evil. Regardless of the potential neglect in this family - you shouldn't be paying for healthcare. It's your HEALTH, it's your LIFE - that's PRICELESS. But what do I know, I only live in a country where it's been free for over 70 years - and whilst not perfect I know that if I get a longterm illness, or any infection or whatever - I know I can confidently get it treated without weighing up the cost versus the uncomfortabilty and pain that I'm not deserving to go through.

I could talk for fuckin' hours about this one. It's nothing short of disgraceful. Sorry.

[Mike70]

i think the point was if they could pay for flea treatment for their dog, why couldn't they at least scrape up the $100 or so it takes to see a family doctor for an office visit.

yes. cancer treatment in the US without insurance will run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially). you have to pay the doctors (specialists are fucking expensive), pay for the chemo drugs (again way fucking expensive) - in short pay for everything. it would break most people and leave them in bankruptcy court. and, if fact, it does just that to a lot of people. because as the article says, they can't turn you away but that doesn't mean they can't charge you.

for example symph - the average visit to an emergency room for something as simple as stitches can cost you nearly $1,500 in the US without insurance.

there is medicaid for poorer people but that shit is for the birds and doesn't work the way it was meant and doesn't cover a lot of services. you are talking about the lowest level kinds of doctors - like free clinic type shit.

a vast amount Americans don't give a shit about other people's lives or their health if it means a dollar has to come out of their pocket to pay for it.

again, we can find over half a trillion dollars a year for "defense" but won't really make an effort at keeping people healthly.

who knows what this kid could have been or could have done with his life, if he'd been given the chance.

[Danny]

but the news would have us believe all americans think free health care is 'that obamuhs nazi socialism taking control" so clearly this proves this is the right way instead! :rolleyes:

Seriously though. Poor kid fucking life snuffed out for no good reason.

[Mike70]

it also goes back to the fact that i think there should be more to people having children than simply bringing a dick and a vagina together. there are a great many people who have ZERO fucking business ever being allowed to have a child. it is finding a way to root out the non-hackers that's the problem.

at the end of the day, maybe Huxley was right: many times your own parents are the most ruinous influences you'll ever have in life.

[SymphonicX]

$1500 for stitches?? Mate I'd have been bankrupted at age 18. after being attacked in a pub and requiring a few stitches to my face - just imagine that, three weeks into my career and bankrupted by a glass in the face...!

I'll respond in more detail soon but I really just wanted to correct my eroneous statement of "we've been getting it for free for 70 years" - it's not "free" - it's just not a tangiable cost as it's taxed.

One of the best rationales to this is actually in one of the Saw movies - where the bad dude's backstory is unleashed and we learn of his inability to afford cancer treatment - he describes other country's systems really quite succintly but I forget what he says...

[EvilNed]

Putting a price on somebody's life is exactly why I'm never gonna move back to the states. Ever.

[JDFP]

Medical care costs money, a lot of money, period. Unless we get serious and start talking about a complete re-haul of how doctors and nurses and hospital administrators are paid and a complete re-haul of how insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies work (and all the minions with insurance companies ad nausea) it's really a pointless discussion.

No, no child should go without basic necessities like getting medical treatment. With that said, it's extremely expensive in some cases and the money isn't going to fall off of a magic tree planted out back (such mythical thinking is that "no one should have to pay for medical care - it should be free!" - because it's NOT and never will be FREE). Should there be major reforms? Absolutely. The people who cannot take care of themselves from their income (i.e. children, elderly, disabled, etc.) should be taken care of by society. But there's no such thing and never will be such a thing as "Free Health Care" for people - it's going to be paid one way or another either by you or by other taxpayers or by insurance companies or by the government (i..e. other peoples taxes). It all boils down to the fact that if you don't pay for it - someone else will have to pay for it one way or another. "Free" does not enter into the equation.

It shouldn't cost $600 for an ambulance ride to the hospital. It shouldn't cost $1500 for a one night stay at the hospital. It shouldn't cost $200 for a bottle of prescriptions. All these things will always cost money and will always cost money to happen - the issue isn't this at all (this is just a fact) - but a matter of the egregious costs associated with providing care. The federal government and insurance providers and medical care practitioners are all to blame for this mess. And until doctors are able to practice in their profession without having to have outrageous insurance costs associated with it in case of lawsuit and until there is a change in the out-and-out assault on humanity from billion-dollar pharmaceutical corporations and a change in the bloated federal government (of which I have no love - the private sector can do anything the government does but far, far better) and a change in the raping costs associated with these items (which will always cost - just shouldn't be anywhere near where they are now) we will not see any lasting and beneficial changes.

One way or another though - as long as doctors are paid and the electricity is on at hospitals and vaccines are still being made - someone is going to have to pay (my argument is with the reasonable price for things). And EVERY individual who is CAPABLE of working should have to pay their REASONABLE share in this matter, period. Unless major reforms are implemented though - this will remain a pipe-dream and it will remain that those who get the best care are those who can afford themselves to get the best care just as those who get the best education are those who can afford to get the best education money can buy.

j.p.

[Eyebiter]

If you read between the lines in the article, sounds like the parents have a substance abuse problems of their own.

[Danny]

Medical care costs money, a lot of money, period. Unless we get serious and start talking about a complete re-haul of how doctors and nurses and hospital administrators are paid and a complete re-haul of how insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies work (and all the minions with insurance companies ad nausea) it's really a pointless discussion.

No, no child should go without basic necessities like getting medical treatment. With that said, it's extremely expensive in some cases and the money isn't going to fall off of a magic tree planted out back (such mythical thinking is that "no one should have to pay for medical care - it should be free!" - because it's NOT and never will be FREE). Should there be major reforms? Absolutely. The people who cannot take care of themselves from their income (i.e. children, elderly, disabled, etc.) should be taken care of by society. But there's no such thing and never will be such a thing as "Free Health Care" for people - it's going to be paid one way or another either by you or by other taxpayers or by insurance companies or by the government (i..e. other peoples taxes). It all boils down to the fact that if you don't pay for it - someone else will have to pay for it one way or another. "Free" does not enter into the equation.

It shouldn't cost $600 for an ambulance ride to the hospital. It shouldn't cost $1500 for a one night stay at the hospital. It shouldn't cost $200 for a bottle of prescriptions. All these things will always cost money and will always cost money to happen - the issue isn't this at all (this is just a fact) - but a matter of the egregious costs associated with providing care. The federal government and insurance providers and medical care practitioners are all to blame for this mess. And until doctors are able to practice in their profession without having to have outrageous insurance costs associated with it in case of lawsuit and until there is a change in the out-and-out assault on humanity from billion-dollar pharmaceutical corporations and a change in the bloated federal government (of which I have no love - the private sector can do anything the government does but far, far better) and a change in the raping costs associated with these items (which will always cost - just shouldn't be anywhere near where they are now) we will not see any lasting and beneficial changes.

One way or another though - as long as doctors are paid and the electricity is on at hospitals and vaccines are still being made - someone is going to have to pay (my argument is with the reasonable price for things). And EVERY individual who is CAPABLE of working should have to pay their REASONABLE share in this matter, period. Unless major reforms are implemented though - this will remain a pipe-dream and it will remain that those who get the best care are those who can afford themselves to get the best care just as those who get the best education are those who can afford to get the best education money can buy.

j.p.

As a kid i remember i was really surprised there is no health care provided by tax payers for everyone over there. From an early age over here we are raised with the message that a persons good health and the ability for us to provide aid for each other so nobody need die when they dont have to of illness goes hand in hand with freedoms like free speech and voting and civil rights as a pillar of any modern democratic 1st world country. It was a very scary thought as a kid that you could die purely because some guy wanted you to pay thousands of dollars for a medicine that may cure whatever ails you. On about the same level as a dude buying a shotgun and killing people and just shrugging it off as nothing, because it just seemed so incredibly 'wrong' on a fundamental level to me in that little kid mindset. I guess it seemed insanely selfish and anti social to a little kid in an alien way. Kind of like when you first have explained to you by your parents that some backwards people hate other people based on skin colour and its called racism. its so strange and out there that you couldn't consider it being a thing that is real at such an early age. Though i grew up and learnt we speak the same language but the politics are so incredibly different between our two countries so it wasnt quite so impossible as it seemed to me when i was a tyke.

Though to be honest even as a adult i find it odd that America has welfare, but no health care. Like maybe if there was free health care, "free" therapists, addiction clinics and things put in place to help people more easily then maybe there would be less welfare which in turn results in more tax payers helping keep this system in place to fix your leg up for free when you break it instead of going "dont have 2 grand? well shit, sucks for you, thats going to be hell if it gets infected and turns gangrenous...NEXT!". Instead of a guy getting his broken leg set it can be too expensive, getting him fired from a menial job and going on welfare taking more money from the system all because there was no system to care for the people in the first place.

Though maybe its just a culture thing? maybe its a little bit of that old west independence thats stuck through the generations showing its head? when we English pay taxes for our healthcare. we see it as everyone chipping in to support each other in times of need. Do Americans see it more as 'a way for deadbeats to mooch off me' or something?

[Mike70]

Though maybe its just a culture thing? maybe its a little bit of that old west independence thats stuck through the generations showing its head? when we English pay taxes for our healthcare. we see it as everyone chipping in to support each other in times of need. Do Americans see it more as 'a way for deadbeats to mooch off me' or something?

great post, danny but i wanted to merely respond to this last para. yes, most americans see it as mooching and don't understand that a healthy population is a vital component to a healthy country.

look at the obesity epidemic over here and yes, it is an epidemic -and then blowing it off as eating "disorders" and chippy, meaningless govt. programs to get people exercising. and now americans are getting fat at such an alarming rate the dept. of defense is starting to get involved in pushing congress to do more because, in the long run, a morbidly obese population dies very soon, and can't really defend itself if need be.

i take solace in the fact that at least i am physically healthy and because i am a veteran, i can use the VA anytime i want to. (which has become quite good in the past few years and i highly recommend it - esp. for mental health issues and such. i use the VA for all my primary care needs and all you fuckers are paying for it,whether you like or not, and will continue to pay for it as long as i live) i'll never be in the position of going broke to get access to health care. not everyone should have to join the army though to get access to basic services. oh and it saves me a fucking fortune in not having pay for health insurance through places i work.

it comes down to money and americans are the crassest people who have ever existed on this earth. everything, and i mean everything over here, gets reduced to dollar signs.
to me that is a totally fucked way of looking at things. you do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. period.

i think we all need to remember that a lot of the money the US spends isn't "taxpayer" money. it is money borrowed from outside sources.

one final thing: we also need to remember that no child has ever had a say in being born. we aren't asked if we want to come into this world and be stuck with fucked up, neglectful, idiotic parents. NO child should ever, ever have to pay for their parent's stupidity. they didn't ask to be here and had no choice in the matter.

[shootemindehead]

It always amazes me, the US approach to healthcare. I've never understood it and find it quite repulsive to be frank.

What every country should aspire to is the NHS of Britain's post war period, which was one of the greatest social achievements of any nation and one the Brts should be rightly proud of.

Over the years, of course, it's hard its fair share of knocks and beatings, but for a time the idea and the practical application worked very well.

Ireland used to have a decent healhcare system too, but years of Fianna Fail (our [sort of] Conservative party) has denuded the service over the years. a succession of truly appaling heath ministers has hamstrung it in the pursuit of a more American style approach.

I really hope we don't go down that road.

Bottom line is a society that can't (or won't) take care of its own (especially its children) is a rather sick one.

[Mike70]

It always amazes me, the US approach to healthcare. I've never understood it and find it quite repulsive to be frank.

Bottom line is a society that can't (or won't) take care of its own (especially its children) is a rather sick one.

it is repulsive. full stop on that.

american society is sick. i am one and i understand just how fundamentally fucked this country is becoming. it's getting almost scary over the way things are starting to fracture. i think america is on the brink of an abyss that it better not step into or there won't be a United States of America anymore.

there are times that i wish the US had stayed part of the British Empire. we would probably all be better off for it in the long run.

whenever i see a shirt or bumper sticker that says "jesus is coming." i think to myself, "no. it is Ares who is on his way and this time, he is really fucking pissed off."