Contains Spoilers! TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN** [Archive]

ProfessorChaos

19-Mar-2012, 02:57 AM

that farm battle was fucking amazing. so many shots reminded me of the original NotLD, it was almost surreal watching it. i just wish it'd lasted a bit longer, crazy that they were off the farm halfway through the episode.

also cool to see rick telling the group how things were gonna be if they roll with him. and oh yeah, the prison is just over the river and through the woods...

not sure about michonne, as i said the other day, her character is a bit much for me to get into, and i hope they don't ramp up the gag factor with her and that damn sword.

i'm calling it right now, merle is with randall's group, and they are most likely under the leadership of a certain recently-announced addition to the cast. thankfully mad men and breaking bad will be on this spring/summer to distract me from my TWD withdraws.

and chris hardwick is not a good host on the talking dead at all. while it's cool to see the creators and actors sit down and field a few questions, most questions asked by the host and twitter twats are somewhat predictable and almost a waste of time. amc should just stick to creating original drama series's (sp?) and leave awkward talk shows and reality shows about pompous overweight fanboys to other networks.

darth los

19-Mar-2012, 03:12 AM

I'm sure it goes without saying, but I have to throw it out there anyway....

MICHONNE!!!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!

Epic! Let's not forget the final shot - OH SH*T!!!!!!

Agreed brother, awesome shot. But what would be the purpose of ghouls on a leash? Decorative? Is it to announce to the world how bad ass she is? One things fo sho, that lady is not to be fucked with......

:cool:

netrais

19-Mar-2012, 03:19 AM

It seems that they haven't cast Michonne yet, no one's hoodie is that dark inside. Can someone tell me who exactly is Chris Hardwick anyway? Did he have something to do with the comic or show?

ProfessorChaos

19-Mar-2012, 03:21 AM

he revealed the actress playing michonne, and those walkers with her serve as distraction to other walkers to make her blend in.

copper

19-Mar-2012, 03:36 AM

netrais

19-Mar-2012, 03:57 AM

Thanks! I saw her headshot online. Stills seems it was undecided when the episode was shot.

Moon Knight

19-Mar-2012, 04:03 AM

Freaking awesome!

Hershel lives, T-Dogg lives, Daryl is still the man, Lori needs to die, Rick laid down the law, Michonne!, The Prison!, Jenner's secret, red shirts dead, fire, zombies, zombies, zombies, OMG ZOMBIES!

Good times and now the wait for season 3!

babomb

19-Mar-2012, 04:12 AM

I don't know what it is but this episode seems a bit off. Everything felt forced and weak. It felt like a different show for a few moments.
They should've done a 90 minute segment. They put too much into a cramped timespace. Felt like I was being hurried out the door after a party.
It was a good episode. The pacing was just too rushed.

I didn't like how Rick got a little babyish at the end. But I do like the direction he's headed in. His leadership skills remain in question apparently through season 3.

darth los

19-Mar-2012, 04:25 AM

It seems that they haven't cast Michonne yet, no one's hoodie is that dark inside. Can someone tell me who exactly is Chris Hardwick anyway? Did he have something to do with the comic or show?

You're welcome:

http://blogs.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/2012/03/danai-gurira-cast-as-michonne.php

he revealed the actress playing michonne, and those walkers with her serve as distraction to other walkers to make her blend in.

Thnx for the info bro. It's wierd that they don't attack her though. They seemed very docile.

:cool:

White_Zombie

19-Mar-2012, 04:29 AM

The actress playing Michonne is Danai Gurira..

Now onto what i thought of the episode.. It was pretty good, i loved the flash back in the beginning of the herd it was pretty creepy. What i don't understand is if they were following the helicopter why in the hell did they end up on the farm? The herd was in the middle of a major city i'm pretty damn sure they would of hit more than a few road blocks and came across more than a couple distractions (the living) on the way. I don't find it believable or realistic that the herd could of bee lined it straight to Hershel's farm.

I really can't wait until Lori is killed in the worst way possible, I'm really tired of her.

I don't know what it is, the writing or the way it's acted out or both, but every time she does or says anything it makes me hate her more and more.

I agree with the sentiment about Lori, she seems like a manipulative whiny bitch.. I can't wait until she gets the axe in the future.

and chris hardwick is not a good host on the talking dead at all. while it's cool to see the creators and actors sit down and field a few questions, most questions asked by the host and twitter twats are somewhat predictable and almost a waste of time. amc should just stick to creating original drama series's (sp?) and leave awkward talk shows and reality shows about pompous overweight fanboys to other networks.

I really can't stand Chris Hardwick!! He comes off as a very fake person sort of like a used car salesman with an alligator smile. I don't watch "The Talking Dead" for that reason.

Does any one else watch Comic Book Men? could you say BORING? AMC could do a lot better than that crap shoot. I only DVR it and skip through it for sneak peaks of TWD.

Sammich

19-Mar-2012, 04:46 AM

I really liked the chaos and confusion of the farm scene. They got so complacent so no contingency plans were made and got that result.

Michonne with the 2 zombies in tow was epic.

darth los

19-Mar-2012, 04:51 AM

From the way lori reacted when rick told her he killed shane the first words out of my mouth was " wow, she loved him ". It was plain as day.

And let's not forget, before the shit hit the fan they were having problems in their marriage, perhaps they were drifting apart. Atleast that's what i deduced from rick's convo with shane in the patrol car and lori's convo with a friend in front of carl's school.

And another thing. I'd bet my balls that it was her that made the first move, not shane. Otherwise, I have a feeling he would have played the "uncle shane part" and protected them but it would have stopped there. In my eyes shane's blood is on her hands. Perhaps that's why she keeled over all naseous and stuff. To me it was a textbook "what have i done" moment.

:cool:

babomb

19-Mar-2012, 05:37 AM

Hershel seems to be turning into Rick's fanboy.

zomtom

19-Mar-2012, 07:41 AM

Friggin' phenomenal!! Thank you Lord, for allowing me to live long enough to see a zombie series (and a great one at that)!! That episode was as good as any George movie, imho. I'm still on a zombie high!! One thing I did notice, the farmhouse seemed to be untouched. If someone knew better, they could've hid under a bed for the night and escaped unscathed. It looked as though the herd moved on. It's going to be long wait until October.

kidgloves

19-Mar-2012, 09:46 AM

More than happy with the way they introduced Michonne. Was a bit worried how that would look on screen but they didn't go over the top with it. The armless walkers looked outstanding. Very much from the comics. Did anyone notice if their jaws had been removed as well? Im really looking forward to episodes with Andrea and Michonne together fighting their way to safety as long as they dont overuse Michonne slowmo slicing zombies to pieces.
It was a good call to split the group up.
The helicopter herd thing wasn't very well executed was it? Just didn't make any sense to me.
Ricks character is on his way down that dark tunnel.
I do have one worry with season 3 though. They have used a some of the moral issues /plotlines from the prison arc this season. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.
At this stage, I'm more than happy to see T-Dog morph into Tyrese. We still don't know ANYTHING about him so they can create any backstory they want.

I wonder how long it will be before people start complaining that they've been stuck at the prison too long

niiru

19-Mar-2012, 11:03 AM

I wonder how long it will be before people start complaining that they've been stuck at the prison too long

God. I know. That timeframe in the comics was virtually all interpersonal drama once they got in. I can totally picture a dozen episodes before they meet the big bad. Hoping that's not the case.

The last four episodes or so have really picked up the pace. I'm hoping the momentum carries forward into next season.

bassman

19-Mar-2012, 12:58 PM

I can totally picture a dozen episodes before they meet the big bad. Hoping that's not the case.

They announced the actor to play him a few weeks back, so i'm thinking he'll appear earlier in the tv series than he did in the comics...

Danny

19-Mar-2012, 01:02 PM

huh, not kept up with the show this season but i wondered if they were going to add michonne in the show. wonder if they will add more of her 'deal' in the tv show since she gets kind of forgotten in the comics in my opinion after the big prison arc.

bungi43

19-Mar-2012, 01:05 PM

Hershel seems to be turning into Rick's fanboy.

I think both his attitude of Rick and Daryl's attitude of Rick change substantially over the last 3 minutes of the Episode. I'm not sure Herschel or Daryl completely condone what Rick did (of course, neither of them can be 100% sure Rick is telling the truth either).

Daryl was defending Rick to Carl, and them BOOM...Rick's speech.

It really seems to me that whole part was forced. That whole "I LED YOU OFF THE FARM"...um, what? Dude, you lit a fire in the barn, you got Herschel's son killed. You waited WAY to long to kill Shane. The only people you got off the farm were your boy and Herschel, and I think Herschel was pretty content to just die on the farm.

I really like Rick...but I think the writing and pacing of this change seems to be a bit off. That whole democracy speech at the end.

MinionZombie

19-Mar-2012, 01:16 PM

OH.
MY.
GOD.
THAT WAS SUPER SWEET!
:hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper:

oh.....my.....god.... that was AWESOME!!!!!!!

HELL. YES. :thumbsup:

Ernest Dickerson has the directors chair tonight with the episode written by Mazzara and Kirkman. :D

And they kicked effing arse with 2x13 - right out of the park, through the atmosphere, and into friggin' space.

...

1) Opening sequence showing the zombie herd growing was great - I loved that the genesis of the herd was the very same helicopter that Rick chased in the first episode - a nifty little twist of fate there. Loved seeing these zombies just plodding along, gathering weight behind them, until fate rang the dinner bell. Excellent kick off.

2) 15 minutes of incredible action ... it was like all the zombie dreams I've ever had while asleep were put onto the screen. Seriously kick arse, so much awesomeness all together - simply.friggin.wow. :stunned:

3) Excellent character stuff - Lori getting bowled over that Rick killed Shane and that she was a part of it, her actions helped lead to that conclusion (as Mazzara said on Talking Dead) - and good on Rick for laying down a dose of reality to quell the panic at the campfire. Fair play I can understand the panic, but Rick has it right - his outburst was a much needed bit of venting.

4) Michonne - the reveal was even more awesome than I could have hoped for. SO.DAMN.COOL.

5) Andrea in the woods - a real trial by fire for her, well done Laurie Holden. :)

6) It'd be boring to see Hershel reload his shotgun, but it did make me chuckle how he never really ran out of shells for like two straight minutes. :p Also, Scott Wilson did a great job - he brought the brawn, but he also brought the brain as Hershel, utterly shellshocked, says goodbye to his farm.

7) The barn burning - incredible - a potent image, but also great. As they said on The Talking Dead, they saw the barn was about to collapse, had the zombies run back to their starting positions, and resume a fresh walk towards camera so they could get that shot - pure luck that they managed to catch that, and wow, it really kicked arse. :cool:

8) Glenn's gotta girlfriend, Glenn's gotta girlfriend... :D - nice to see their relationship taking another step forward. It feels like it's right out of the comics.

9) I figured Patricia would get it, and I loved that ... damn, forget the girl's name again ... but that the girl was clinging on to her. Really emotional scene there. Figured Jimmy would cark it too, there's wasn't much for him to do generally, but we do need a bit of cannon fodder from time-to-time, especially if it furthers the emotional core of the main characters.

10) You know what - the entire cast did an awesome job. Two thumbs fresh for the whole lot of them. :):thumbsup::)

...

The "In Memoriam" bit on Talking Dead made me chuckle - a whole slew of farm invaders. :p

bassman

19-Mar-2012, 01:35 PM

Thorn

19-Mar-2012, 01:57 PM

Loved the episode, I do feel as has been mentioned that it should have been longer I did feel as if they tried to fit too much into the time they had to tell the story. But that would be the only criticism.

I am really hoping they go back for the RV is was such a major part of the comic, maybe Michone and her new BFF will go back for it. Loved Michone's reveal and the walkers with her (will avoid spoilers here) were done very well.

I hate Lori, I never did before, but I guess I do not get her treating Rick like a leper for taking out the threat to her family she told him about and encouraged him to take out. More over her reaction was one that treated hi mas if she did not know him, and loathed him. He is the man she asked him to be, they all asked him to be, he had to kill Shane she who backs her husband all the time is upset he defended himself when Shane tried to kill him? Um okay... die in a fire.

The only regret I have is that we did not see one or two of the farm folk try to defend the farm house and watch it get over run, with moments of futile efforts defending doors and windows before they fled into the basement where the zombie horde /herd eventually busted through and feasted on them with a shot of hteir provisions in the back ground. Yes there is food in the basement, but it is you ... Jimmy.

Lots of amazing make up and FX, great acting, great scenes, the fire was awesome.

Really happy with the season finale.

bungi43

19-Mar-2012, 02:19 PM

It does make me wonder though...if everyone had gone down into the basement and locked the doors, would the heard have just moved on? While they did bust through that fence, they were seeing something.

Aside from Rick and Carl being seen, I Think everyone else could've hit until it passed.

Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun at the barn.

I'm also confused how Rick and Carl got surrounded the way they did. They couldn't make it back to the house, which means that the zombie herd really wasn't as much as a herd, so much as it was coming from 3 different directions.

Finally...WTF was Jimmy doing? Was he driving around with the door open asking them to come in? Why couldn't he slowly drive off with Rick and Carl on the roof? I get they had to have some fodder, but WTF? LOL @ poor Jimmy

Loved the episode, I do feel as has been mentioned that it should have been longer I did feel as if they tried to fit too much into the time they had to tell the story. But that would be the only criticism.

I am really hoping they go back for the RV is was such a major part of the comic, maybe Michone and her new BFF will go back for it. Loved Michone's reveal and the walkers with her (will avoid spoilers here) were done very well.

I hate Lori, I never did before, but I guess I do not get her treating Rick like a leper for taking out the threat to her family she told him about and encouraged him to take out. More over her reaction was one that treated hi mas if she did not know him, and loathed him. He is the man she asked him to be, they all asked him to be, he had to kill Shane she who backs her husband all the time is upset he defended himself when Shane tried to kill him? Um okay... die in a fire.

The only regret I have is that we did not see one or two of the farm folk try to defend the farm house and watch it get over run, with moments of futile efforts defending doors and windows before they fled into the basement where the zombie horde /herd eventually busted through and feasted on them with a shot of hteir provisions in the back ground. Yes there is food in the basement, but it is you ... Jimmy.

Lots of amazing make up and FX, great acting, great scenes, the fire was awesome.

Really happy with the season finale.

-- -------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles?

Did they do this already throughout the season and I miss it? The entire herd of zombies is at the farm. Surely they could take a few minutes to try and get gas? Or even just take one of those other cars? Rick new he was on empty in the vehicle.

Another thing...do we have an idea how far the farm is from that Prison? Don't you think a Prison might have come up as a "secure place" for someone who lives near the prison?

Thorn

19-Mar-2012, 02:42 PM

It does make me wonder though...if everyone had gone down into the basement and locked the doors, would the heard have just moved on? While they did bust through that fence, they were seeing something.

Aside from Rick and Carl being seen, I Think everyone else could've hit until it passed.

Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun at the barn.

I'm also confused how Rick and Carl got surrounded the way they did. They couldn't make it back to the house, which means that the zombie herd really wasn't as much as a herd, so much as it was coming from 3 different directions.

Finally...WTF was Jimmy doing? Was he driving around with the door open asking them to come in? Why couldn't he slowly drive off with Rick and Carl on the roof? I get they had to have some fodder, but WTF? LOL @ poor Jimmy

-- -------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles?

Did they do this already throughout the season and I miss it? The entire herd of zombies is at the farm. Surely they could take a few minutes to try and get gas? Or even just take one of those other cars? Rick new he was on empty in the vehicle.

Another thing...do we have an idea how far the farm is from that Prison? Don't you think a Prison might have come up as a "secure place" for someone who lives near the prison?

Valid points.

Would love to have seen them in the basement and watched it play out.

Jimmy was a red shirt and they made his death far too easy, since he was written as dead earlier that was a throw in... and it felt like it.

Agree on the prison hope it was far enough away that it would not have been on Hershel's radar.

Further I agree, if Rick and the guys were at the car waiting that long gas and supplies surely would have been on my mind, I would have had to stay busy and prepare for the worse case scenario, which is us three moving on without anyone else and I would have taken all I could from the area around me to make it happen killing the straggler walkers with melee weapons.

AcesandEights

19-Mar-2012, 03:08 PM

Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles?

This occurred to me too and I figured that it would make a lot of sense for them to have siphoned/drained the gas from the cars at that spot during the preceding weeks, as it was a spot they had returned to a few times during the search for Sophia. Since it wasn't explicitly addressed, I just assume that or something similar was the case. You have to do this or you will go crazy with the writers 'overlooking' or not addressing this sort of stuff.

bassman

19-Mar-2012, 03:19 PM

This occurred to me too and I figured that it would make a lot of sense for them to have siphoned/drained the gas from the cars at that spot during the preceding weeks, as it was a spot they had returned to a few times during the search for Sophia. Since it wasn't explicitly addressed, I just assume that or something similar was the case. You have to do this or you will go crazy with the writers 'overlooking' or not addressing this sort of stuff.

Earlier in the season we see Hershel fueling the generator for the house. Perhaps they had been collecting the fuel from the highway, but just never really addressed it other than the generator scene? That house always had lights on at night, so i imagine they ran through some fuel at a fast rate. Minor, but that could be a small suggestion from the writers that the group had been going out for fuel...

sandrock74

19-Mar-2012, 03:26 PM

bungi43

19-Mar-2012, 04:31 PM

They were seen getting fuel from the cars on the highway when they were staying there looking for Sophia. That was good enough for me.

About Hershel knowing of the prison, I live by one, but I don't know of its exact location. Why would I? I've never had any business there. It's pretty much ignored by everyone, other than people incarcerated there or people who work there. I certainly wouldn't go out looking for it during a zombie apocalypse!

But you know it is there. That's kind of my point.

I don't really need an explanation of not getting gas from the cars. But they seemed to address multiple times yesteday about how unsafe that area was. Tdogg all but went crazy saying "WE AIN'T GOING BACK TO THE HIGHWAY".

So if it was unsafe, I would say they hadn't gone back, but yeah, maybe they used all of that up or something. It was a good finale, just some things that jumped out at me.

Thorn

19-Mar-2012, 06:18 PM

darth los

19-Mar-2012, 07:30 PM

But you know it is there. That's kind of my point.

Agreed. Herschel knew that area like the back of his hand. He knew which walkers used to own what land and who worked where. There's no way he doesn't know about the prison. Kinda like he didnt know sophia was in the barn right? :rolleyes:

Furthermore, prisons tend to be the lifeblood of the economy of the surrounding area. It's unfathomable that a person who lives in that town doesn't know about it. That goes for maggie as well.

:cool:

MinionZombie

19-Mar-2012, 07:31 PM

Even without her face, the introduction of Michonne was just simply amazing. Straight from the comics, yet it actually worked! It felt like it fit with the show. Bravo Mazarra, Kirkman, and company. Many people wondered if Michonne could have the comic introdcution in the show without it coming off as cheesy, but they pulled it off....

http://i.imgur.com/E54oL.jpg

Indeed! The reveal was awesome - didn't see it coming, and when it did, t'was awesome. I loved that she is entirely cloaked by a hood - just a blank hole and a sword staring back at her - nifty. Also, the armless zombies look positively creepy as all get-out!

Plus - THAT final shot reveal of the prison - sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. :D

Also - yes - I do hope they go back for the RV. It's such an iconic vehicle from the series, and it'd be sad to leave it on the farm with Jimmy's guts smeared all over it ... but then again, how would they write such a thing into the show and justify it narratively? Hmmm...

TWD Volume 8 Comic Spoiler:
Although the RV does get wrecked in Volume 8 of the comics, so it's coming eventually, but to get rid of it this early would be a little unfortunate.

JDFP

19-Mar-2012, 08:15 PM

As someone who hasn't seen the comics, I'm trying to understand how a prison (unless it had been empty for some time as no longer used) could really be a valid place to stay. I mean, sure, the high walls and fences would make it safe from the undead outside - but don't prisons hold prisoners? I don't know how the comics do it - but in the series it would have to be done in one of these ways:

1.) It was a country-club small scale federal prison. I.E. you had people like Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart living in it who had committed crimes like insider trading and commodities fraud. So, what happened when the shit hit the fan? The guards went around and let everyone out and said: "Good luck!" as they all left. Then the guards eventually left themselves (or, perhaps, maybe they didn't in realizing how good they had it there?).

2.) It was a state prison with murderers, rapists, thugs. You couldn't simply have guards around and let these people out and say: "Good luck!". So, what did the guards do? Leave these people in their cells where they eventually died? Kill them all before leaving the prison (if the guards even left that is, I'm wondering about this)? Would you waste time and ammunition in going around killing these people when you know damned well you'd need the ammunition later on down the road?

Honestly, as being a pretty well fortified and secure place like a prison I'm wondering how many of the guards would have just walked off and left from having years worth of food and supplies as well as protection fro the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few guards and perhaps family members of guards were still around. What I find most interesting to consider is - what happened to all the prisoners? And I think a lot of this has to do with what type of prison this place was after all (state v. federal max or federal country club).

In not having read the comics - if I was to guess these were the worst dregs of society in this prison (i.e. state or federal max) they would have just been left in their cells to starve to death. If it was a fed-lite prison perhaps Bernie Madoff and some other guards are now running the place.

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

j.p.

acealive1

19-Mar-2012, 08:21 PM

rick's whole speech made sense because if they wanted to talk about going out there in the middle of the night running into god knows what, then he was gonna show em how stupid they sound by sounding equally outlandish in saying what he said. people do it all the time. daryl is in this for the long haul and he seems to be the most level headed since he brushed aside his brother coming back as a hallucination.

michonne's idea about keeping walkers with her is really weird looking but if it keeps her from making it a trio then i say keep doing it.

and im sorry, if my girlfriend looked like maggie, i'd keep her happy at any cost. period.

lori seems to have followed shane off the deep end with her breaking down at the end after doing the whole 'shane is crazy, etc etc' thing weeks back. i guess she's still attached to the kid's real father after all.

carl is really pissing me off. how do you go from fuckin clint eastwood to a child again in a few hours?

herschel......BAD ASS. fired that cannon about 50 times and never reloaded.

DODO of the day goes to herschel's kid for leaving the damn RV door (both of them) UNLOCKED and theres walkers hanging out.

it didnt make a damn bit of sense for people to get all mad about rick not telling them what jenner said. it wouldnt have made a difference anyway. it seems to be a virus just like AIDS or anything else that we have the physical ability to catch. we all have a cell in our bodies that enables us to have a certain disease or not. some people are immune to certain things....and im willing to bet theres someone out there who is the key to the whole epidemic.

the ONLY thing i didnt like was the fact they showed t dogg and a few others making sure the fences were holding up recently but they never thought about the BIG WIDE OPEN SIDE where anyone could just mosey on in. dumb asses.

kidgloves

19-Mar-2012, 08:31 PM

The one thing that jumped out of me was ... why the hell were they driving around at break neck speeds in cars shooting out their windows. I am all for suspension of disbelief but come on... that kind of accuracy can't be had from moving vehicles at night like that. More over Daryl was fine to stop and shoot and pick his shots so would everyone else have been and you could have moved as needed. The thing felt like a wild west Indian and cowboy shoot out but a lot more ridiculous.

The idea was to get the walkers to follow the cars around and off the farm so i don't think accuracy was really the intention. Worked for dramatic purposes though.

Andy

19-Mar-2012, 08:37 PM

I will just say..

http://www.fan2athlete.com/files/Frozen%20Cartman.jpg

DEFROST ME IN OCTOBER.

kidgloves

19-Mar-2012, 08:40 PM

Agreed. Herschel knew that area like the back of his hand. He knew which walkers used to own what land and who worked where. There's no way he doesn't know about the prison. Kinda like he didnt know sophia was in the barn right? :rolleyes:

Furthermore, prisons tend to be the lifeblood of the economy of the surrounding area. It's unfathomable that a person who lives in that town doesn't know about it. That goes for maggie as well.

:cool:

I'd never thought of a prison as a viable holdout until i read TWD. It was one of those "Oh shit. Of course" moments. Never even crossed my mind so i don't think it would be immediately obvious to someone like Herschel.

-- -------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

As someone who hasn't seen the comics, I'm trying to understand how a prison (unless it had been empty for some time as no longer used) could really be a valid place to stay. I mean, sure, the high walls and fences would make it safe from the undead outside - but don't prisons hold prisoners? I don't know how the comics do it - but in the series it would have to be done in one of these ways:

1.) It was a country-club small scale federal prison. I.E. you had people like Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart living in it who had committed crimes like insider trading and commodities fraud. So, what happened when the shit hit the fan? The guards went around and let everyone out and said: "Good luck!" as they all left. Then the guards eventually left themselves (or, perhaps, maybe they didn't in realizing how good they had it there?).

2.) It was a state prison with murderers, rapists, thugs. You couldn't simply have guards around and let these people out and say: "Good luck!". So, what did the guards do? Leave these people in their cells where they eventually died? Kill them all before leaving the prison (if the guards even left that is, I'm wondering about this)? Would you waste time and ammunition in going around killing these people when you know damned well you'd need the ammunition later on down the road?

Honestly, as being a pretty well fortified and secure place like a prison I'm wondering how many of the guards would have just walked off and left from having years worth of food and supplies as well as protection fro the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few guards and perhaps family members of guards were still around. What I find most interesting to consider is - what happened to all the prisoners? And I think a lot of this has to do with what type of prison this place was after all (state v. federal max or federal country club).

In not having read the comics - if I was to guess these were the worst dregs of society in this prison (i.e. state or federal max) they would have just been left in their cells to starve to death. If it was a fed-lite prison perhaps Bernie Madoff and some other guards are now running the place.

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

j.p.

All will be answered.

Trancelikestate

19-Mar-2012, 08:48 PM

You guys must have not noticed but the RV burned down with the barn.

I never read the comics so i didn't know who Michonne was but when i first saw her it really reminded me of the feeling i got the first time i saw she predator Machiko.

And hats off to Kirkman for practically telling us merle is coming back in season 3. A caller asked if we would see Merle, or Morgan and his kid and he said theres 100% chance that 33% of them will be in season 3. :rolleyes:

BotOZombie

19-Mar-2012, 08:50 PM

Also - yes - I do hope they go back for the RV. It's such an iconic vehicle from the series, and it'd be sad to leave it on the farm with Jimmy's guts smeared all over it ... but then again, how would they write such a thing into the show and justify it narratively? Hmmm...

Could be wrong but on one of the long shots of the barn burning to the gound there was a shot of what was left of the RV burning up. It was just a frame and looked a bit like part of the barn but I am almost certain it was the RV. Shame because I thought Andrea passing the keys to glen last week was symbolic of him taking over Dales role as RV owner.

Great episode though and a top end to a great series, and when Andrea was seemingly done for I knew what was coming there was no alternative way out of it and the execution of the reveal was perfect. I almost resembled the soutpark image MinionZombie posts.

Roll the hell on October.

paranoid101

19-Mar-2012, 09:13 PM

Couldn't wait till Friday watched it just now and it was a great ending to the second season.

Sigh October seems so far away, still least theres another resident evil film to tide me over :evil::p

darth los

19-Mar-2012, 09:38 PM

The idea was to get the walkers to follow the cars around and off the farm so i don't think accuracy was really the intention. Worked for dramatic purposes though.

If that was the plan it then they didn't need to fire a single shot. They wasted a shitload of ammo for no good reason. Also, it didn't look to me as if they were trying to lead them of the farm at all. It looked as if they were trying to kill them all and when they saw their ammo was running low and they hardly made a dent they had no plan b and scattered. Bottom line is they were ill prepared for what happened. They had no plan or exit strategy. No one knew what to do or where to go.

I'd never thought of a prison as a viable holdout until i read TWD. It was one of those "Oh shit. Of course" moments. Never even crossed my mind so i don't think it would be immediately obvious to someone like Herschel.

Well, between being a zombie buff my whole life and actually being in prison that's actually the first thing i thought of.

You guys must have not noticed but the RV burned down with the barn.

And hats off to Kirkman for practically telling us merle is coming back in season 3. A caller asked if we would see Merle, or Morgan and his kid and he said theres 100% chance that 33% of them will be in season 3. :rolleyes:

Give the man a prize. Tls is correct. About 23 minutes in the rv is clearly FUBAR.

Yeah, and i caught what kirkman said. It had to be merle. I doubt it would be morgan or the boy solo.

Side thought. This new "bad ass" Rick contradicts his vow that they would honor dale by doing things his way. I didn't agree with the way shane went about things even though he was mostly right. And i didn't agree with Rick's way of doing things either. Truth is the right path lies somewhere in the middle. Yes, survival is the number one priority but it shouldn't come at the cost of completely gutting the compassion, humanity and morality of the group. That is after all what makes us human.

LEt us not forget that if not for the compassion and feeling of moral obligation of others Rick would still be trapped in that tank in Atlanta. Glenn and the others didn't have to save him. In fact, just speaking cold logic, it was the exact wrong thing to do. You see the pickle they put themselves in as a result. They nearly didn't make it out of that store alive. But they did it anyway.

Being a badass "Ricktator" is all well and good but it would serve rick well to remember why he's alive going forward.

:cool:

Afterglow

19-Mar-2012, 10:03 PM

Side thought. This new "bad ass" Rick contradicts his vow that they would honor dale by doing things his way. I didn't agree with the way shane went about things even though he was mostly right. And i didn't agree with Rick's way of doing things either. Truth is the right path lies somewhere in the middle. Yes, survival is the number one priority but it shouldn't come at the cost of completely gutting the compassion, humanity and morality of the group. That is after all what makes us human.

LEt us not forget that if not for the compassion and feeling of moral obligation of others Rick would still be trapped in that tank in Atlanta. Glenn and the others didn't have to save him. In fact, just speaking cold logic, it was the exact wrong thing to do. You see the pickle they put themselves in as a result. They nearly didn't make it out of that store alive. But they did it anyway.

Ive been struggling with the whole "Dale's way" thing ever since he stalled the convoy on the highway to "avoid discussions for the greater good of the group". To me his particular way of doing things is self centered, because in his quest for morality he disregards the lives of the very people he travels with. Fake a breakdown - Dale gets his shot at calibration of the group's moral compass but the group is exposed in a place that has been hit at least twice. In pleading for Randall's life he is clearly disregarding facts that the other group is bellicose, heavily armed and have a penchant for a bit of a rape and pillage. I cannot fathom how would one run risk of, for instance, Andrea and Lori having a bit of R&R with Merle and his pals just to preserve principles. Terribly self centered.

In that light, after being overrun, having serious casualties and being all kinds of stressed out, Im not wondering that Rick kinda put that whole thing on the back burner. Shane, while he was right about many things was someone I would oppose on the grounds of being the "when you have the hammer every problem looks like a nail" sort of guy where soon enough every single problem would be solved with an execution or two.

Neil

19-Mar-2012, 10:27 PM

Well, enjoyed the episode. Others this season have been stronger, but still enjoyed it. And definately looking forward to October :)

niiru

19-Mar-2012, 10:59 PM

Yeah, and i caught what kirkman said. It had to be merle. I doubt it would be morgan or the boy solo.

Comic Spoiler
In the comic, the boy dies. Rick swings back through after the prison falls apart and Morgan isn't able to put his son down and just unchains him and leaves. Given that everyone refers to the dead as no longer the person on the show (i.e. all the talk about that not being Sophia, etc), he could conceivably meant Morgan would be in the season but the boy won't be because the boy is dead.

Theoretically. But that's probably stretching it and you're probably right about Merle.

Knighty

20-Mar-2012, 12:22 AM

Loved the episode, exactly what I wanted for TWD season finale. Some fantastic makeup and effects going on in this one too , specially when Andrea was beating the zombies head in with the gun.

To clear some things up
Michael Rooker who plays Merle said he will be back in series 3 in an interview recently. Apparently he had to drop 20 pounds for the role
Glen Mazzara stated in his live tweeting that the RV was on fire as well as the barn. Another sad loss for the group.

I'm hoping as per the comic we see the helicopter that started the horde again, that and I hope they do some more webisodes before series 3

Ragnarr

20-Mar-2012, 12:26 AM

I don't know. Love this series overall and consider myself a fan (here it comes...) BUT every once in awhile a character does something completely OUT of character, For instance, Lori. C'mon writers, she's all afraid of Shane enough to have that talk with Rick in the tent ("Rick, he's dangerous") and now she's all wigged out that Rick killed Shane to save himself?? Or Rick, good hearted, steadfast and the best husband/father in the entire world now saying, "this is a dictatorship"?? TWD writers are snorting waaay too much coke imo. There is no other explanation I can come up with to justify some of the "hey let's try this" out-of-the-blue ideas they've been writing. And now, Ninja Girl and her light saber...I mean, katana! Like I said, love the show and will watch it next season, but the writers need a 12-step program pronto imo.

Andy

20-Mar-2012, 12:37 AM

SRP76

20-Mar-2012, 01:00 AM

Quite possibly the greatest thing I've ever seen on tv.

And I actually cheered Rick like he was Muhammad Ali at the end. It had to be said. Everyone always thinks "oh, I know better". Okay, then go fucking DO it, ain't no anchor tied to your ass. In reality, Rick is under no obligation to provide jack shit to any of these clowns. If he'd have just walked into camp, grabbed Lori and Carl, and left way back when, these geeks would still be standing around with a thumb in their ass waiting out the end. Maybe now some of the deadweight (like Carol) will realize that. With the exception of Darryl, every last one of them would be lunchmeat within a week on their own.

Thorn

20-Mar-2012, 01:09 AM

childofgilead

20-Mar-2012, 01:42 AM

*slow clap*

Knighty

20-Mar-2012, 02:29 AM

Glen Mazzara is answering questions on Twitter at th moment. Some interesting info about season 3 and answers some questions asked in this thread ( including my thinking about the helicopter) , oh and seems they finally have plans for T-Dog

Nicotero is also writing more webisodes. Surprised Glen is giving so much away and how candid he is as well, quite refreshing. Apparently he dislikes the flashbacks

babomb

20-Mar-2012, 02:41 AM

Even without her face, the introduction of Michonne was just simply amazing. Straight from the comics, yet it actually worked! It felt like it fit with the show. Bravo Mazarra, Kirkman, and company. Many people wondered if Michonne could have the comic introdcution in the show without it coming off as cheesy, but they pulled it off....

http://i.imgur.com/E54oL.jpg When it comes to actors, it's their likeness that makes the $$$. So not showing her face could've been a budget concern as well. Although you can see her lips very well. But they could've signed her for the 3rd season, and used a stand-in or stunt woman for the finale since the character is copyright. That's what I would've done if I were the producer.
There's so much focus on Michonne right now! People I've known since I was a kid that I never would've pegged as TWD fans/watchers are making a big deal about her on facebook right now. They have no idea of the significance of her character, yet they are acting like she's Jesus.

darth los

20-Mar-2012, 03:12 AM

Ive been struggling with the whole "Dale's way" thing ever since he stalled the convoy on the highway to "avoid discussions for the greater good of the group". To me his particular way of doing things is self centered, because in his quest for morality he disregards the lives of the very people he travels with. Fake a breakdown - Dale gets his shot at calibration of the group's moral compass but the group is exposed in a place that has been hit at least twice. In pleading for Randall's life he is clearly disregarding facts that the other group is bellicose, heavily armed and have a penchant for a bit of a rape and pillage. I cannot fathom how would one run risk of, for instance, Andrea and Lori having a bit of R&R with Merle and his pals just to preserve principles. Terribly self centered.

In that light, after being overrun, having serious casualties and being all kinds of stressed out, Im not wondering that Rick kinda put that whole thing on the back burner. Shane, while he was right about many things was someone I would oppose on the grounds of being the "when you have the hammer every problem looks like a nail" sort of guy where soon enough every single problem would be solved with an execution or two.

Let me clarify. I didnt agree with dale's methods either. His father knows best shtick was wearing thin. After all wasn't dale guilty of witholding information vital to the group because he felt he knew best?

Let's be clear they are all adults and decisions like that one should be voted on by everyone. No one person has the right to make that call. T dog knows that dale witheld info and for what reasons because dale told him himself. It's funny how they wanted to lynch Rick for doing basically the same thing.

Thinking about it, all Rick had to do was tell them, "Yeah Jenner told me that we're all infected and that anyone who dies for whatever reason reanimates. However, Jenner was dead set on killing them all so he might have just told me that so we'd lose hope and agree to just stay there and die. But when i saw Shane turn thats when i knew Jenner was right". End of story. And no, that's not hindsight, I actually thought this as it was happenning.

:cool:

Trancelikestate

20-Mar-2012, 03:52 AM

Is it possible they'd bring Morgan back without the boy? Sure, but highly unlikely. Perhaps more likely if that is the way it happens in the comics but knowing television writers i find it unlikely.

rongravy

20-Mar-2012, 04:04 AM

Give it up.

Sammich

20-Mar-2012, 06:49 AM

The one thing that jumped out of me was ... why the hell were they driving around at break neck speeds in cars shooting out their windows. I am all for suspension of disbelief but come on... that kind of accuracy can't be had from moving vehicles at night like that. More over Daryl was fine to stop and shoot and pick his shots so would everyone else have been and you could have moved as needed. The thing felt like a wild west Indian and cowboy shoot out but a lot more ridiculous.

People go into the fight or flight response when presented with extreme fear. Maggie was borderline hysterical and drove around scared out of her mind, whereas Herschel stood his ground with his 75 round pump shotgun. Daryl can remain calm as he seems to become accustomed to the situation. You have to remember that everyone in the group isn't trained in fire and movement or other military tactics.

zomtom

20-Mar-2012, 07:10 AM

The one thing which bothers me is, if you're living through a zombie apocalypse, why wouldn't you keep emergency supplies in all of the vehicles in case you have to bug out? By now the group has been through alot. You would think they would have learned some lessons and kept extra food, fuel, weapons in all of the vehicles. They knew there was an "armed" group near them and the constant threat of a zombie herd. There's just no reason they should be sitting there all cold and hungry and out of fuel.

AnxietyDilemma

20-Mar-2012, 07:35 AM

I loved when Rick reminded Herschel that he's a man of God and of all people should have faith, and Herschel said something along the lines of "Jesus promised to resurrect the dead, I expected something a little different". Was I the only one that chuckled at that line?

Gemini

20-Mar-2012, 09:58 AM

Andy

20-Mar-2012, 10:09 AM

Great episode, but a few comments.

Why did they so heavily fortify the house just to run around like idiots when the zombie horde finally arrived?

I found it annoyingly unrealistic that everyone was such expert snipers with the effortless head shots - even from a moving car!

Rick killed Shane, and has now become Shane. The speech at the end was Shane 100%.

The house was fortified enough to take on a few zombies or even small horde but the sheer number of zombies coming at the the farm would have ripped through the house in minutes, Daryl says something like this too.

Agreed with you on the point about the sharpshooting, in last weeks episode it kinda bugged me how carl was able to shoot zombie shane in the head from a good distance when just a week previous he couldnt hit the swamp zombie? Nah...

Your last point, rick in that episode (particullarly the speech at the end) was the closest to the rick from the comics we have seen in the TV series so far. Expect more.

Tricky

20-Mar-2012, 10:24 AM

Shooting accurately especially at short or medium range isnt exactly difficult though, I had an air rifle at 11 years old and could hit coke cans and bottles from a fair distance away with no training whatsoever other than how to reload! Any beginner who can point a gun can probably hit something with a fair level of accuracy just by looking down the iron sights and pulling the trigger. Fair enough military style training makes you much quicker and capable, but is that not what Shane was doing when teaching them all to shoot earlier in the season?

Andy

20-Mar-2012, 02:05 PM

Which surely makes it even stranger that carl is unable to shoot the swamp zombie the week before last?

bassman

20-Mar-2012, 02:47 PM

Which surely makes it even stranger that carl is unable to shoot the swamp zombie the week before last?

Had Carl shot a walker before that? I could understand being nervous on your first time out. Also, protecting his father from walker Shane would probably have a lot to do with his willingness and accuracy. He has had proper training, but I think the swamp walker just freaked him out because it was first attempted "kill". Unless i'm forgetting a previous kill, anyway...

rgc2005

20-Mar-2012, 02:57 PM

bungi43

20-Mar-2012, 03:49 PM

bassman

20-Mar-2012, 03:55 PM

AcesandEights

20-Mar-2012, 04:00 PM

Everything I've ever seen on the subject is shooting accurately =/= shooting accurately under duress. Much less from a vehicle. I had no problem with them taking to vehicles, which is a pretty good idea (so long as they take note to not bash into one another and watch their speed), but the marksmanship was too accurate all around for the episode, generally speaking, and shooting from vehicles in a confused situation should probably have posed more danger to the living than the dead.

That said, it's another convention of not just the genre but action sequences on film. I wish they'd have kept it in mind when planning their show, but it's not surprising to see.

Moon Knight

20-Mar-2012, 04:39 PM

Yeah, I don't know about those statics you got there. I've barely had any formal training except maybe two hours from a police officer relative and i'm a pretty good shot with handguns, rifles, and shotguns. It's not exactly rocket science....

Besides, at the end of the day it's still just a tv show...

Exactly. In a world where zombies exist things like that don't bother me as long as its still well made.

MinionZombie

20-Mar-2012, 05:42 PM

As I remember it, he never actually shot at the swamp zombie. He was getting all gangster around it, goading it, and then it slipped out of the mud and Carl scarpered. Plus there is that thing of kids suddenly taking on super strength to lift a car off their parent or whatever, you know those crazy stories you hear about kids doing incredible things in moments of chaos ... plus Carl had training and was proving to be a pretty good shot much earlier in season two.

MagicMoonMonkey

20-Mar-2012, 10:57 PM

I remember conversations held within the old forums about how great it would be if someone created a zombie tv series.
Who would ever have imagined that when the The Walking Dead comic was released almost 8 years ago that it would birth the most epic zombie movie that will ever be created. Nothing will ever surpass this. And there is so much more to come. Can it get any better than this?
Most of us know what goes on at the Prison due to the comic books, and how it will no doubt differ in many ways, but I have had an idea for season 4...
AMC... Just do a variation the the original Day of the Dead script. Don't have Bub, or any other gunweilding zombies, have the idea of fighting fire with fire being theorised and tested. Get a season long military heavy season and... Bang... Epic Zombie Movie Utopia.

Anyways, back on track... That episode was nothing short of fantastic and I can not wait to see what Season 3 has in store for us all.

Ragnarr

20-Mar-2012, 11:53 PM

Andy

21-Mar-2012, 12:07 AM

To the comic book fans, I must apologize beforehand for my ignorance. Who exactly IS the chick with the katana, but more importantly why does she walk about with two zombies on chains? Are they trophies or are they more like those foo-foo dogs obese ladies take for walkies up & down the street?

"C'mon Zombo! C'mon Shambler! Time for walkies! Aw, you're such GOOD zombies, aren't you! Yes you ARE! Yes you ARE!" (lmao)

I mean, wouldn't it be a real bugger if she had to hurry up in some situation, but her two "pets" were slowing her down to a stagger? Oh crap, what if they got their chains tangled around her at the worst possible moment? Hmm...

Her name is michonne and she was a fencing champion and attourney pre-zompocalypse, the 2 zombies that accompany her are her former boyfriend and brother (i think) who she was able to restrain and control. She cut their arms and lower jaws off to make it impossible for them to attack her and she spends months training the aggression out of them. She walks around with them as they keep other zombies from paying too much attention to her, kinda like the thing rick and glenn did with zombie guts but without getting messy.. as soon as she joins up with the group though she no longer needs them and kills them both straight away.

Its been a long time since i read her introduction which was volume 3 or 4 of the comics but i think thats pretty accurate. Feel free to correct me if it isnt anyone.

Sammich

21-Mar-2012, 12:07 AM

Few people can naturally shoot a firearm. Training and repetition until the movements become gross motor skills requires up to 500 hours of training, dry fire drills and 1000s of rounds downrange under the supervision of trained instructors per individual weapon. I would tend to believe an actual zombie uprising than the Navy SEAL headshot accuracy of Lori from the porch with a double action .38 Chief's Special snub nose.

I completely agree with you. I worked many years at an indoor range and saw more armchair video warriors that I could count get a wakeup to the reality that shooting an actual firearm isn't point, click, boom headshot. Usually after the first round these guys would be flinching so much hardly anything would stay on the paper, especially when they insisted on shooting a .44 mag for the first time. Shooting an actual rifle or shotgun is definitely not the same as a no recoil no muzzleblast air gun either.

Also, shooting at static targets while in a non-stress stationary relaxed position is completely different that trying to shoot at a moving target (especially a small target like a head) is also threatening to kill you. During a high stress situation co-ordination skill degrage significantly, which is why there is a thing called "muscle memory" that many of the firearms defense instructors stress through repetition of actions. Repeated drawing and dry firing is one of the basics.

As for police, the only time we would see many of them at the range was right before their yearly qualifications and they were some of the worst shots and violators of the range rules. After that, it came to no surprise of hearing of cops letting loose with 60+ rounds and only hitting a suspect 3 times if at all.

bassman

21-Mar-2012, 12:21 AM

Its been a long time since i read her introduction which was volume 3 or 4 of the comics but i think thats pretty accurate. Feel free to correct me if it isnt anyone.

That sounds about right to me. Although I too haven't read those issues in a while....

For more about Michonne's origins, Kirkman just released a small comic within the latest issue of Playboy that shows where she was when the ZA began.

rongravy

21-Mar-2012, 02:49 AM

How can/do you train the aggression out of zombies? I was wondering why her chained pets didn't still try to get all up in that, regardless of being able to "seal the deal", so to speak.
It did look supercool, though. I can't wait to see more of her.

Legion2213

21-Mar-2012, 03:34 AM

Dear sweet jeebus! Just finished watching it - Incredible.

TV this good is probably breaking several laws of nature, the first 20 minutes was insane action, the last 20 minutes insane drama. I'm still reeling from the awesome of it all.

My "Lori hatered-o-meter" went completely off the scale tonight as well...she needs to be murdered, what a horrible shitty little character she is.

Oh, did anybody whisper "like a boss" when we had the shot of Daryl just sitting there on his chopper taking in the scenes as everything burned and died? :D

-- -------- Post added at 03:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 AM ----------

Time to finally start reading my first 4 hardback volumes of the comic that have been sitting around for many, many months now...tide me over until season 3.

darth los

21-Mar-2012, 04:30 AM

You know, regarding the suspension of disbelief thing, I find it infinitely hilarious that the most of the people who say things like " if you can believe that the dead can rise than why is eveyone being a crack shot suddenly bothering you?" are normally the first ones to say " OMG running zombies!?! How dumb is that? Everyone knows zombies don't run." :duh:

LMFAO!

:cool:

Neil

21-Mar-2012, 09:15 AM

You know, regarding the suspension of disbelief thing, I find it infinitely hilarious that the most of the people who say things like " if you can believe that the dead can rise than why is eveyone being a crack shot suddenly bothering you?"

In short, one is necessary, the other is not. To have a drama set in a zombie infested world, we need to make the leap of faith of zombies existing. We don't need to give everyone super human shooting abilities :)

I must admit everyone being super crack shots from moving/bouncing vehicles annoyed me a bit!

MinionZombie

21-Mar-2012, 10:55 AM

LouCipherr

21-Mar-2012, 05:01 PM

Oh, did anybody whisper "like a boss" when we had the shot of Daryl just sitting there on his chopper taking in the scenes as everything burned and died? :D

hahaha! Yep, I certainly did. :D:lol::D

*like a boss...* :cool:

Guilty as charged. :D

Am I the only one who's bummed that there's humans still wandering around? Is that wrong? :shifty:

MinionZombie

21-Mar-2012, 06:03 PM

Am I the only one who's bummed that there's humans still wandering around? Is that wrong? :shifty:

Yes ... because you are weird ... that is all. :D

LouCipherr

21-Mar-2012, 06:58 PM

Yes ... because you are weird ... that is all. :D

I wear that badge proudly, my friend. :D

krisvds

21-Mar-2012, 07:36 PM

Enjoyable episode as always but not without faults;

The 'siege' felt rushed and was devoid of suspense
The yee-haw shoot-out, driving bit felt ridiculous.
What the hell is up with the characterisation in this series? Most female characters come across as being written by a bunch of teenagers; Lori especially feels like a cold hearted bitch, Andrea is the sexy shooter, Carol is a weak shell of a woman, Michonne runs the risk of being a samourai zombie killer and nothing else,... all very 2D.

For every fault there is a great scene as well luckily. Rick's speech at the end was my personal highlight; well written, great acting.
And the zombie FX are brilliant as always.

Neil

21-Mar-2012, 08:43 PM

The 'siege' felt rushed and was devoid of suspenseNot devoid, but definately less than it could have been!

The yee-haw shoot-out, driving bit felt ridiculous.Yep!

Why not use the trucks to mow the ghouls down?

Moon Knight

21-Mar-2012, 09:04 PM

darth los

21-Mar-2012, 09:45 PM

In short, one is necessary, the other is not. To have a drama set in a zombie infested world, we need to make the leap of faith of zombies existing. We don't need to give everyone super human shooting abilities :)

I must admit everyone being super crack shots from moving/bouncing vehicles annoyed me a bit!

But that's my point exactly. Just because you suspend your disbelief about the dead rising thing it doesn't mean that one can't question anything.

It's like "no way should herchel be firing a pump action shotgun 30 times without reloading". The first answer you would get is: " Dude the dead are rising from the grave give it a rest". :rolleyes:

:cool:

Neil

21-Mar-2012, 11:00 PM

It's like "no way should herchel be firing a pump action shotgun 30 times without reloading".
Yeh, even I wondered what was going on there too! And I'm a Brit who knows sod all about gun! :)

Seems unnecessarily poor continuity/planning!

bassman

21-Mar-2012, 11:16 PM

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m157y9QUov1r5d224o1_500.jpg

Seriously though....it's common. Every action movie has those little flaws. It's like cars having to shift gears even though they're running 80+....

babomb

21-Mar-2012, 11:48 PM

Shows a lack of creative insight on the part of the creative consultants.

bassman

22-Mar-2012, 12:17 AM

Or that its just a tv show and its about twelve-to-thirteen hours worth of footage shot in only three months under harsh conditions? :p

Eat Flesh

22-Mar-2012, 12:51 AM

Or that its just a tv show and its about twelve-to-thirteen hours worth of footage shot in only three months under harsh conditions? :p

Yeah exactly. They could have shown Hershel reloading more but there was so much shit going on. I think they did show him filling his pockets with extra shells at one point didn't they?

Too bad the final ep could not have been a 90 minute affair. But I also got the feeling they filmed just tons of shit in that siege sequence alone and had to cut that all in. Mezzara mentioned that great shot of the zombies walking away from the flaming barn that was about to collapse was because someone said they think it is about ready to go so they rushed some walkers in there for the shot of it coming down. Great episode and and a few nitpicky things were not enough to tarnish it all for me personally. Amazing second half of the season all around IMO.

Knighty

22-Mar-2012, 01:14 AM

I think at the end of the day you have a finite amount of time in an episode, you either fill that showing someone miss a shot/reload a gun or you show a zombie being hit or similar action shot. It's nothing new from any film or tv show and really when watching anything you have to suspend your disbelief or end up not enjoying things.
After all I'm still trying to work out just when Egg from This Life went off to live in America !

Just thought I'd add this interesting interview with Mazzara. Admitting he gave T-Dog a bit of a crap role but is going to make up for it.
Beware of comic spoilers inside!!
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/03/19/walking-dead-glen-mazzara-showrunner/

shootemindehead

22-Mar-2012, 10:57 AM

[IMG]Seriously though....it's common. Every action movie has those little flaws. It's like cars having to shift gears even though they're running 80+....

Those kinds of things are just movie tropes that anyone watching needs to ignore. Like the cops using chalk outlines at a murder scene.

Never happens. It's pure TV.

I do take issue with characters defying the laws of physics in films though. That does get my goat and it's becoming more and more prevalent with the use of CGI.

MinionZombie

22-Mar-2012, 12:48 PM

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 01:32 PM

Well said. Time is an expensive commodity in TV and you've got to be as efficient as possible. Showing Hershel constantly reloading would be filler - we know he has to reload, so why do we need to see it every however-many-shells the shotgun can hold?
Because he shoots like twenty odd rounds in a row with zombies never more than about 10-20ft away. If he stopped to reload... he'd be dead... But let's not let common sense or reality get in the way shall we :rolleyes:

Better the scene is simply reworked to circumvent such nonsense. ie: He brings out 3-4 pre-loaded shotguns and simply works through them. There - Same scene, but with added common sense. Voila!

Knighty

22-Mar-2012, 01:59 PM

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 04:01 PM

Then you have to add in scenes of him preparing the shotguns , explaining they are all loaded, picking each one up after another has gone empty ;)

Ummm... Can't agree with that!

You see him walking out with a bag of shotguns and dropping them on the ground... Picks one up and begins to shoot... Later, while he's blasting away, and in a NICE INTELLIGENT SEQUENCE, he fires dry so drops the shotgun to the ground, picks another up from the bag and commences shooting again.

Now, the suggested alterations there were:-
1) Him walking out with a bag of guns instead of just one. Shall we add 1 extra second for that extra information/sequence? NOTE: This change also suggest the groups have at least done some preparation, and live in some fear. ie: They have bags of pre-prepared weapons etc!
2) Him firing dry, dropping the gun to the ground, leaning down, and picking another up. Shall we add 2 seconds extra for that information/sequence? You need never show another such occurence, unless you want to...

So, a couple of seconds to completely rationalise the infinitely shooting shotgun, add some depth to the scene, and more importantly some believability. I'm sure they could have cut one of the ye-haw super shooting from a moving vehicle head shots if those 2-3 seconds were required from elsewhere in the episode!?

Now, in all honesty, would you rather see the never ending shotun, or the suggestion above... Honestly? Which adds more realism, depth and interest to the scene(s)?

As it stands the sequence(s) comes across a bit cheap and lazy IMHO! All for the sake of a few seconds of screen time and some decent forethought and writing! ;)

LouCipherr

22-Mar-2012, 04:36 PM

I agree with Neil on this as this has always been a pet peeve of mine. I have been forever annoyed at the fact that most filmmakers don't take realism involving weapons into consideration just a bit more than they do. Suspending belief in the dead coming back to life is one thing - it's something none of us have ever experienced before so there's nothing for us to compare it to (except, perhaps, other zombie movies, but that's not the point). We all, however, have at least a basic understanding of guns and how they work (ie: we all know you can't fire 20 bullets from a revolver and shotguns need to be reloaded after a few shots not 20. We also know that people don't become "sharp shooters" overnight, unlike in the movies). I have an incredibly difficult time suspending belief in something I actually have first-hand knowledge of and is always at the forefront of my mind.

Here's another prime example of this kind of stupidity: remember Halloween (the original)? At the end, Loomis shoots Michael with a revolver 6 times. Someone must've been paying attention, right? Well... at the beginning of Halloween II, they re-cap that same scene but this time, Loomis fires 7 shots from a 6 round revolver. THAT kind of stuff should not be overlooked, same as the "unlimited ammo shotgun"

It's a minor thing for the most part, yes, but something that has forever been stuck in my crawl. Don't these editors notice this kind of stuff? If they don't, they really need to hire someone who does. It's annoying.

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 04:41 PM

Someone needs to rewatch the scene and count how many rounds that super shotgun held :)

Ignoring the script, even surely as late as filming they must have thought, 'hang on, that's the twentieth shot out of this thing? DIRECTOR!!!?' :)

LouCipherr

22-Mar-2012, 04:44 PM

Ignoring the script, even surely as late as filming they must have thought, 'hang on, that's the twentieth shot out of this thing? DIRECTOR!!!?' :)

Exactly. If it was this obvious to us, you can't tell me at least someone sitting in the editing room didn't say, "hey, waaaaaaait a second here...."

bassman

22-Mar-2012, 04:53 PM

Someone needs to rewatch the scene and count how many rounds that super shotgun held :)

Just did. When we first see him, he fires eight shots on screen. Then it cuts to Lori and Carol arguing about Carl and the shots are quiet for a moment. Then we hear a few more off screen that could possibly be Hershel, and then actually see between Lori and Carol that Hershel shoots four, then stops, reaches into his pocket, and starts reloading. When Lori is asking Hershel to come with them, he fires seven.

So maybe it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be? The most he fires on screen is eight. There are of course other shots heard in the background during other scenes, but that could have been one of the others in the cars(Glenn had a shotgun as well). And he definitely does reload, it's just in the background and not in-your-face....

EDIT: Forgot the scene where Rick saves him and pulls him away. It looks like he fires ten and starts reloading before Rick gets him. So ten is the most he fires on screen. I have no idea what kind he's using, but are there shotguns that hold ten shells?

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 05:01 PM

Just did. When we first see him, he fires eight shots on screen. Then it cuts to Lori and Carol arguing about Carl and the shots are quiet for a moment. Then we hear a few more off screen that could possibly be Hershel, and then actually see between Lori and Carol that Hershel shoots four, then stops, reaches into his pocket, and starts reloading.

So maybe it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be? The most he fires on screen is eight. There are of course other shots heard in the background during other scenes, but that could have been one of the others in the cars(Glenn had a shotgun as well). And he definitely does reload, it's just in the background and not in-your-face....
Actually I remember the reloading scene - see if you concur having just watched it again

There's zombies within ten-twenty feet... He runs dry... So stops for a reload (& chat)? I'll swear he was reloading & chatting? Would you do that? :) I seem to recall it feeling somewhat unatural - ie: You just wouldn't (& couldn't) do that with a wall of creatures walking towards you.

Can you reload a shotgun quickly? ie: Before zombie 10-20 feet away are on you.

sandrock74

22-Mar-2012, 05:05 PM

To be fair, the zombies were further off than 20 feet away.

bassman

22-Mar-2012, 05:08 PM

Yeah, with the exception of the one that comes up behind him, the others hes shooting at seem pretty far away. I could imagine him having time to load 8-10 shells within that distance. Plus, he wouldn't have to fully reload...just enough shells to pick off the closest walkers.

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 05:12 PM

To be fair, the zombies were further off than 20 feet away.

21? :)

I'm going to have to watching this sodding scene again aren't I!

-- -------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

Yeah, with the exception of the one that comes up behind him, the others hes shooting at seem pretty far away. I could imagine him having time to load 8-10 shells within that distance. Plus, he wouldn't have to fully reload...just enough shells to pick off the closest walkers.

I'll swear there's a wall of more than 8-10 approaching him... I'm going to watch it again... :)

Knighty

22-Mar-2012, 05:28 PM

Right that's it!

We need to go to the farm location, heavily armed with guns/ammo & tape measures and we are going to put this thing to bed! :p

AcesandEights

22-Mar-2012, 05:44 PM

Right that's it!

We need to go to the farm location, heavily armed with guns/ammo & tape measures and we are going to put this thing to bed! :p

I was thinking the same thing, and how outlandish it was. I was like "I'll fix Neil and his nay saying, I just need to figure out the average human strolling speed of a human in feet per second and off we go to Georgia for some figurin'. We'll have this settled in no time."

Good one, Neil...you almost lured me in. ;)

Thorn

22-Mar-2012, 07:10 PM

I agree that real and realistic are different I do not need the show to be "real" but I do want it to be realistic enough to help with siuspension of disbeleif and anything that takes me out of that annoys me as it ruins my enjoyment. Again... driving around and getting head shots on zeds while aiming out of the windows , or even hitting your target at all.

It was silly, and it bothered me.

I also agree, there is no way I stop midstream and have a chat or a sit down while reloading wit ha wall of rotting corpses coming at me. I like to think I would keep my composure but it would take effort and not nonchalant chatting.

darth los

22-Mar-2012, 08:05 PM

I think at the end of the day you have a finite amount of time in an episode, you either fill that showing someone miss a shot/reload a gun or you show a zombie being hit or similar action shot.

Well said. Time is an expensive commodity in TV and you've got to be as efficient as possible. Showing Hershel constantly reloading would be filler - we know he has to reload, so why do we need to see it every however-many-shells the shotgun can hold?

Brilliant gentlemen. So the next time there are running zombies on screen just remember that they're just speeding things along so we can get to the really important stuff...:D

Because he shoots like twenty odd rounds in a row with zombies never more than about 10-20ft away. If he stopped to reload... he'd be dead... But let's not let common sense or reality get in the way shall we :rolleyes:

Better the scene is simply reworked to circumvent such nonsense. ie: He brings out 3-4 pre-loaded shotguns and simply works through them. There - Same scene, but with added common sense. Voila!

Neil has it right guys. It fundementally changes things when the continuity error in question is the difference between life and death. It's really simple. If herschel stops and reloads for the amount of times he fired his weapon, With the sheer number and proximity of the walkers, making the stand he did, he's dead, end of story. So by all rights he shouldn't be alive so yeah that's gonna bother me.

Now what i am willing to suspend my disbelief for:

Let's not forget the fact that the weapon (shotgun no less) had no recoil and he was hitting everything in the head. It's a stretch but i'll roll with it. Questioning a weapons kick and a persons aim is subjective. Maybe herchel was in nam. Perhaps, unbeknownst to everyone he's as stong as a bear and the weapon just doesn't kick cause he's that strong. Fine. But you can't shoot a shotgun without shells in it.

On that subject it has been said that he fired 8 shots in one frame and seven in another. Do you have any idea how long it takes to manually load seven shells? 30 seconds? He would have been overun, easily

And nitpicking is what we do here isn't it? If we can criticize GAr's continuity errors ad nauseum (And yes he's still the master) i don't think kirkman is above a good old fashioned nitpicking either.

:cool:

Knighty

22-Mar-2012, 08:11 PM

I don't mind running zombies in films though ;)

darth los

22-Mar-2012, 08:17 PM

I don't mind running zombies in films though ;)

You have made some powerfull enemies this day.......:shifty:

:cool:

Andy

22-Mar-2012, 09:05 PM

Dont listen to darth knighty, both camps are strong.

I like runners too :)

kidgloves

22-Mar-2012, 09:06 PM

Can I just say that Andrew Lincoln was outstanding in this episode. I'm still not 100% convinced about him yet even if he is a fellow Brit. There's something i don't like about the way he's chosen to move his head when playing Rick. Bothers me for some reason.
The scene with Lori where Rick tells her how he killed Shane and Carl shot zombie Shane was excellent. Watch Sarah Wayne Callies reactions as the story unfolds. Lincolns doing the decent into slight madness superbly.

Wheres Wyld btw? He hasn't stopped watching because Shane died has he?

Neil

22-Mar-2012, 10:39 PM

Neil has it right guys. It fundementally changes things when the continuity error in question is the difference between life and death. It's really simple. If herschel stops and reloads for the amount of times he fired his weapon, With the sheer number and proximity of the walkers, making the stand he did, he's dead, end of story. So by all rights he shouldn't be alive so yeah that's gonna bother me.

Now what i am willing to suspend my disbelief for:

Let's not forget the fact that the weapon (shotgun no less) had no recoil and he was hitting everything in the head. It's a stretch but i'll roll with it. Questioning a weapons kick and a persons aim is subjective. Maybe herchel was in nam. Perhaps, unbeknownst to everyone he's as stong as a bear and the weapon just doesn't kick cause he's that strong. Fine. But you can't shoot a shotgun without shells in it.

On that subject it has been said that he fired 8 shots in one frame and seven in another. Do you have any idea how long it takes to manually load seven shells? 30 seconds? He would have been overun, easily

And nitpicking is what we do here isn't it? If we can criticize GAr's continuity errors ad nauseum (And yes he's still the master) i don't think kirkman is above a good old fashioned nitpicking either.

:cool:

And that's a gun illiterate Brit picking that issue up, so God knows what you gun psycho Americans made of it :)

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 12:17 AM

Wheres Wyld btw? He hasn't stopped watching because Shane died has he?

He's probably still typing up his opinions on the episode. Hasn't stopped since it aired last Sunday.....

Sammich

23-Mar-2012, 03:05 AM

Then you have to add in scenes of him preparing the shotguns , explaining they are all loaded, picking each one up after another has gone empty ;)
Instead you have him shooting round after round like he's discovered an unlimited ammo cheat and annoy probably 1% of an audience but get to show two zombies having their heads blown off. Everyone's a winner

Based upon the number of zombie apocalypse threads I have seen in gun and prepper related forums long before and since the start of the series, I think the number is significantly higher than 1%, maybe 15-20%.

I timed myself loadiing 7 rounds into a 12 ga and it took about from 10-12 seconds and this was from shell holders so they could be easily grabbed base first. Retrieving shells just thrown into a pocket would take much longer as inevitably it would take additional time to correctly orient them before feeding into the magazine. The amount of time would go up during a stress situtation with fumbling and even dropping shells on the ground.

The Herschel scene could have been pulled off realistically if he had one of his daughters reloading a gun as he shot the other, similar to what is shown in the old westerns.

ProfessorChaos

23-Mar-2012, 03:22 AM

He's probably still typing up his opinions on the episode. Hasn't stopped since it aired last Sunday.....

damn, you owe me a new keyboard. :lol:

his last post seemed to suggest he was upset with another member over their differences of opinion...dude needs to lighten up and take things a little less personally.

Knighty

23-Mar-2012, 04:37 AM

I guess old man Herschel is just better at reloading then you :D

And the 1% was just an example , whatever the amount of people that notice which may be significant the actual percentage of people who are bothered By it would be low. Certainly if that put anyone off watching anymore then I hope they never see an action film .

With season 3 speculation I do wonder if it will just be following Rick's group, Mazzara has hinted in a few interviews that Michonne might not be directly with the group but on the outskirts and that it won't just be The groups story anymore. Wondering if they will put a Lost like turnaround and show the Governor's story.

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 09:36 AM

The Herschel scene could have been pulled off realistically if he had one of his daughters reloading a gun as he shot the other, similar to what is shown in the old westerns.
Yep, or a bag of pre-loaded weapons...

Either would add a bit more depth and logic to the scene, which would only improve it!

MinionZombie

23-Mar-2012, 10:50 AM

Brilliant gentlemen. So the next time there are running zombies on screen just remember that they're just speeding things along so we can get to the really important stuff...:D

My reason for not showing a load of reloading is simple - it's boring to show it, there's not enough time in the episode to cram it in there, you know he has to reload at some point, so why is it truly, desperately necessary to show it all the time? The way some people are getting into a fit is as if this is the first time it's happened on screen. :rolleyes:

They have to get off the farm and down the road and continue driving before they run out of petrol, but do we see every goddamned mile of their journey? No, because it'd be boring ... it's unrealistic to not show every second of a journey! :rant: ... ... /sarcasm. :sneaky: Time and actions are condensed in television and film, it's just a fact. As for "having a chat", I never once saw Hershel having a nice gentle sit down with a cup of tea to talk about what the neighbours are up to next door. :rolleyes:

...

And running 'MTV zombies' can sod off. I like the odd flick that has runners in it, but I'd much prefer they weren't running at all. Shambling, or indeed 'Hinzman hobbling', makes more sense for the mythical biology of a zombie - as the makers have gone into thoughts about how a zombie can tear open a stomach (they have bony fingers and long nails due to decomposition), so too they'd come to rest on shambling makes more sense that running ... shambling doesn't require anywhere near the body and limb coordination of running, and for a zombie that can't even talk or perform basic tasks, how are they going to run? They even removed the zombie actor's breath because in the TWD world the zombies don't breathe (but this does issue the question of the whole 'smell' thing from last season) ... with a weakened body structure, running would do far more damage than walking/shambling/hobbling (it's even the case with human beings).

However all that isn't necessary to show on-screen, it's background thought that went into justifying the actions of the writers and filmmakers, we don't need to sit down for a lecture on-screen to explain all that, and likewise we don't need to stop the action for a plodding 10 second gap to show Hershel load EVERY. SINGLE. SHELL. INTO. HIS. SHOTGUN. just so a handful of nitpickers won't bang on endlessly about it at the expense of the rest of what happened in the episode. :p

/rant

...

On another - far more interesting topic - yes, Andrew Lincoln is kicking major arse with his performance. I don't quite know what kidgloves is meaning about 'the way he turns his head as Rick' :confused: ... but anyway, I think Lincoln is doing a spiffing job. :)

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 11:22 AM

Ghost Of War

23-Mar-2012, 12:00 PM

I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels.

Come on guys, seriously. :rolleyes:

Brilliant. And 100% agreed. I know you guys like to nitpick, but really, what do you want, kind of subtitles along the bottom of the screen saying "while Hershel is off screen, he's reloading his gun"?

Knighty

23-Mar-2012, 12:25 PM

I love the subtitles idea!

"Carol is running to the barn and looking scared"

Especially good for T-Dog since we rarely see him

"T-Dog is day dreaming about surfing in the East Coast, he's had a busy day of planting fence posts. He might go say hi to Rick then have a cup of tea. T-Dog lives an exciting life"

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 01:53 PM

it would disrupt the flow of the action and tension of the farm scene.
I assume the tension being the wall of walking dead held at bay by the aforementioned limitless ammo (super quick reload?) shotgun?

That's tension alright! Dozen's of walking dead coming towards you, and somehow a single shotgun can hold them all at bay? To use your insightful phrase, it's "just plain retarded" :) If he'd stopped every half dozen shots to reload, he'd be dead... But that didn't happen? Why? How?

Come on guys, seriously. :rolleyes:
But you seem to be missing the point. A number of people, myself included, noticed this scene as a reality breaker. We found it disruptive and it tore the viewer away from the show as it seemed to be 'cheating'. How difficult would it have been to do either of the suggestions we covered about? eg:-
- We see Hershal with a bag of guns that he's working his way through? - This explains the ability to mow down so many walkers. It also adds depth to the story line showing these people take their lives seriously and have seemingly prepared for a battle.

Yes, of course it's a minor aspect, but none-the-less, we cannot deny this scene made a few folks roll their eyes. Moreover, it wasn't necessary as a tiny bit of forethought could have resulted in a more interesting, and more inportantly, more believable scene. It was an unnecessarily poor bit of writing/direction IMHO, that could have so easily have been tidied up.

...and what's the problem with pointing this out and discussing it?

I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels.
...and if you saw Hershal walking into a bathroom, close the door, only to immediately re-open it just a second later proclaiming, "Christ that was a good big shit", would you raise your eyebrows at how he managed to do it so fast? Maybe he also managed to reload his shotgun while he was in there too!? ;)

LouCipherr

23-Mar-2012, 02:21 PM

My reason for not showing a load of reloading is simple - it's boring to show it, there's not enough time in the episode to cram it in there, you know he has to reload at some point, so why is it truly, desperately necessary to show it all the time?

It's pretty simple (remember, this has been a pet peeve of mine long before TWD) - when I see someone unload 10 rounds from a 6-round revolver, or I see someone take 30 shots from a shotgun without reloading, I suddenly am taken out of the moment because I'm sitting here thinking, "ok, wtf, man? 30 shots and no reload? no grabbing a new weapon?"

As Neil suggested, the simple act of dropping one shotgun and picking up another (takes what, less than 2 seconds of screen time?) would've been more than enough to make it believable and would not have interrupted the 'flow' of the scene - but that didn't happen.

I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen

Me either, however... I did see and hear Daryl tell Rick he had to take a piss in one of the episodes, so :p

The idea it would be "boring" to show Herschel reloading - well, there's a lot more even more boring shit shown in TWD that took up WAY more time (y'know, like having to spend half the goddamn second season looking for some stupid little girl that wandered off?) so I don't think showing Herschel reloading or picking up a different gun for 2 seconds would really have that much of a impact. It would, however, have completely eliminated a lot of questions about it. And as Neil has pointed out - a lot of people have noticed this scene and questioned it. Not many people have questioned why no one has not taken a shit, however, so I guess I digress... :lol:

sandrock74

23-Mar-2012, 03:05 PM

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 03:11 PM

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop??

The issue isn't really if they don't show them doing something, it's when they do show them doing something, but it's too implausible or impossible :)

LouCipherr

23-Mar-2012, 03:21 PM

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop??

I did see and hear Daryl tell Rick he had to take a piss in one of the episodes, so :p

Just sayin'... :lol:

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 04:21 PM

The issue isn't really if they don't show them doing something, it's when they do show them doing something, but it's too implausible or impossible :)

But if we see them eating, shouldn't we see the end results? :p

Now that I think about it....we saw Fat Tony piss on the floor of the bar, yet we never saw him drink anything. This show is flawed!

LouCipherr

23-Mar-2012, 04:32 PM

Now that I think about it....we saw Fat Tony piss on the floor of the bar, yet we never saw him drink anything. This show is flawed!

That's it, bass is right. I'm done with this show!

:lol: :p

rongravy

23-Mar-2012, 04:37 PM

Yeah, people. I personally take 2-3 shits a day, and boy are they time consuming barnburners!!!
And just imagine how much bigger the fan base would be if they put in daily takings of shits. All those German scheisse video lovers...
Time to start an online petition, get those viewing/pooping numbers up.

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 05:13 PM

The idea it would be "boring" to show Herschel reloading - well, there's a lot more even more boring shit shown in TWD that took up WAY more time (y'know, like having to spend half the goddamn second season looking for some stupid little girl that wandered off?) so I don't think showing Herschel reloading or picking up a different gun for 2 seconds would really have that much of a impact. It would, however, have completely eliminated a lot of questions about it. And as Neil has pointed out - a lot of people have noticed this scene and questioned it. Not many people have questioned why no one has not taken a shit, however, so I guess I digress... :lol:

Crap your right.. i never thought about that, how could they spend so much time building up a storyline? all that time could have been spent showing them loading up guns!!

Look, if your taken out of the moment becuase a gun dosnt fire the right number of bullets then thats your problem. The vast majority, and im talking a good 80-90% of people dont care and would be taken out of the moment if everything was paused so that herschel can reload his shotgun every 4 or 5 shots, its not a huge leap of faith to just assume that it happens off screen while the camera is on somebody else is it?

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 05:32 PM

Crap your right.. i never thought about that, how could they spend so much time building up a storyline? all that time could have been spent showing them loading up guns!!

Look, if your taken out of the moment becuase a gun dosnt fire the right number of bullets then thats your problem. The vast majority, and im talking a good 80-90% of people dont care and would be taken out of the moment if everything was paused so that herschel can reload his shotgun every 4 or 5 shots, its not a huge leap of faith to just assume that it happens off screen while the camera is on somebody else is it?
I'm going to have to watch the scene again, because my brain was screaming 'foul'. And the reason it was doing this was the ease he seemed to be firing off rounds, and the proximinity and number of the dead to him.

ie: From memory there seemed to be a wall of the dead approaching him, and my brain seemed to be complaining at his shotgun (holding 6-8 rounds) fending off this wall of walkers coming towards him, when he'd have to stop every 6-8 shots for 10-20seconds to reload. My brain said if he stopped to reload, they'd be on him... So it's not the fact we didn't see him reload, it's that he simply wouldn't have the time to and not have his butt munched off!

I'll rewatch this scene and see if I was fair/unfair... I'll report back :)

kidgloves

23-Mar-2012, 05:34 PM

Cmon people. I can't be the only one whose noticed Andy Lincolns choice of head twitch to play Rick.

MinionZombie

23-Mar-2012, 05:56 PM

To be honest, ive stayed out of this herschel/shotgun/reloading argument becuase quite frankly, its stupid.

When i watched the scene, Herschel fires 3 or 4 shots in succession then it cuts to something else, then back to herschel who fires off another 3 or 4 rounds. I took it he was reloading between scenes becuase like MZ has said, it would be BORING to show it and it would disrupt the flow of the action and tension of the farm scene. The fact that you guys are picking this up and trying to say "he should have reloaded becuase i thought he had unlimited ammo" is just plain retarded.

I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels.

Come on guys, seriously. :rolleyes:

We may disagree on Shane, but we can agree on infinite ammo! :D

I love the subtitles idea!

"Carol is running to the barn and looking scared"

Especially good for T-Dog since we rarely see him

"T-Dog is day dreaming about surfing in the East Coast, he's had a busy day of planting fence posts. He might go say hi to Rick then have a cup of tea. T-Dog lives an exciting life"

:lol::lol::lol: Excellent, Sir, excellent! :thumbsup::D:lol:

I wonder what they'd say about other characters?

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop??

Lori takes a whiz in the field and finds out she's up-the-duff, so relieving yourself on-screen didn't work out so handily for her ... nor Fat Tony. It's a conspiracy! Pee/Poo on-screen and you're somehow scuppered! :p

But if we see them eating, shouldn't we see the end results? :p

Now that I think about it....we saw Fat Tony piss on the floor of the bar, yet we never saw him drink anything. This show is flawed!

I'm putting together placards right now, we march on AMC at dawn! :rant: ... ... :p

Cmon people. I can't be the only one whose noticed Andy Lincolns choice of head twitch to play Rick.

Erm, I think I know what you mean, but more of a nod than a twitch wouldn't you say?

AcesandEights

23-Mar-2012, 06:23 PM

Cmon people. I can't be the only one whose noticed Andy Lincolns choice of head twitch to play Rick.

There's good reason for this and I applaud Lincoln for picking up on it.

You know about water fluoridation, right? Where a reduced form of fluorine, or fluoride as it is know in this reduced state, is added to the water supplies in some countries in controlled substances for health & dental hygiene reasons. Well only about 40 or so states in the USA fluoridate their water, the rest of them--predominantly in the American South--instead add methamphetamine.

Thorn

23-Mar-2012, 06:37 PM

I have seen plenty of people on screen go into a bathroom, or go off to use the bathroom I am not sure where this old argument comes from. If you mean you want to WATCH it occur I am sure google can hook you up... I do not need to see it happening.

:)

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 06:39 PM

There's good reason for this and I applaud Lincoln for picking up on it.

You know about water fluoridation, right? Where a reduced form of fluorine, or fluoride as it is know in this reduced state, is added to the water supplies in some countries in controlled substances for health & dental hygiene reasons. Well only about 40 or so states in the USA fluoridate their water, the rest of them--predominantly in the American South--instead add methamphetamine.

:lol::lol::lol:

The problem is....we don't need to add meth to the water down here. Just about everyone seems to be on that sh*t, anyway. Hey there's an idea....why hire extra zombies? Just throw some meth heads in there and it's a perfect match! Although I guess they would have to change it to Snyder super-charged zombies. And instead of eating flesh, they'll take apart cars on their front lawns...

LouCipherr

23-Mar-2012, 06:48 PM

Look, if your taken out of the moment becuase a gun dosnt fire the right number of bullets then thats your problem. The vast majority, and im talking a good 80-90% of people dont care

Huh. Interesting. Perhaps for you and the people you know or converse with that's the case, but not so with me because it's WAY more than 10-20% of people I know have mentioned this as an issue and not just in TWD - but in every movie or tv show that ignores the basic principles of firearms.

As far as your "advancing the storyline" comment, Andy - sorry, we do NOT need half of a season of TWD following around a little shit that didn't follow directions to advance the storyline of the show. Would you have wasted that much time and took that much risk for that little girl during the zombie apocalypse? If so, I sure as hell hope I don't end up in a survivor group with you.

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 07:13 PM

It's as bad as my spider sense told me IMHO.

My brain complained while watching it the first time - It complain "Hershal is firing too many shots!" So my brain left the episode and considered how the writers are cheating...

So I just watched it again to see if my claims are valid. I've mentioned the episode time (approx) and a summary of events. Shots mentioned off camera are almost certainly meant to be Hershal IMHO:-
12:30 = Hershal shown firing nine times
12:40 = 2-3 shots off camera (no time to reload from previous shots)
12:47 = Hershal shown firing 4 more times (no time to reload from previous shots), stops to reload (shown)
13:06 = 2 shots off camera
13:12 = 2 shot off camera
13:17 = 7 shots on camera
13:30 = 5 shots off camera (no time to reload since previous 7 shots)

...continued/sporadic gunshots - possible meant to be Hershal

15:23 = 10 shots, stops to reload (shown)
15:51 = 1 shot (stops for a chat with Rick)

How many shells does your average pump action shotgun hold? 5-7?

^^And all this nonsense would be solved had he walked out with a bag of shotguns...

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 07:16 PM

Crap your right.. i never thought about that, how could they spend so much time building up a storyline? all that time could have been spent showing them loading up guns!!

Look, if your taken out of the moment becuase a gun dosnt fire the right number of bullets then thats your problem. The vast majority, and im talking a good 80-90% of people dont care and would be taken out of the moment if everything was paused so that herschel can reload his shotgun every 4 or 5 shots, its not a huge leap of faith to just assume that it happens off screen while the camera is on somebody else is it?

Way to totally miss my point, ive highlighted it for you :)

Huh. Interesting. Perhaps for you and the people you know or converse with that's the case, but not so with me because it's WAY more than 10-20% of people I know have mentioned this as an issue and not just in TWD - but in every movie or tv show that ignores the basic principles of firearms.

Do i need to quote MZ? You miss that post too? This stuff isnt shown becuase its pointless, boring, does not advance the story and takes up precious screen time.

As far as your "advancing the storyline" comment, Andy - sorry, we do NOT need half of a season of TWD following around a little shit that didn't follow directions to advance the storyline of the show. Would you have wasted that much time and took that much risk for that little girl during the zombie apocalypse? If so, I sure as hell hope I don't end up in a survivor group with you.

Maybe i saw a different mid-season finale to you but the whole first half of the season was building up to that payoff was it not? It really wouldnt have had the same impact if sophia got lost in episode 1 and they never mentioned her again until she appeared as a zombie in episode 7 would it?

That advances the storyline more than herschel stopping to reload his gun.

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 07:21 PM

I don't see how shots heard off screen are meant to be Hershel. Sure, they could be, but how many people were shooting on the farm at the point? It could have been anyone...

AcesandEights

23-Mar-2012, 07:28 PM

I don't see how shots heard off screen are meant to be Hershel. Sure, they could be, but how many people were shooting on the farm at the point? It could have been anyone...

Good point. Begs the question as to whether people are having their immersion ruined by some aspects of the show, or instead their own view of things / expectations.

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 07:47 PM

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15ldq84qa1r5d224o1_400.jpg

bungi43

23-Mar-2012, 07:48 PM

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop??

If you like shows/movies that show people doing their daily pipe cleaning...make sure to catch a Tom Hanks film. He pees in like everything he's in.

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 07:58 PM

I don't see how shots heard off screen are meant to be Hershel. Sure, they could be, but how many people were shooting on the farm at the point? It could have been anyone...

Certainly because with some of them it's the same location, same sequence, just a change of camera angle, and Hershal is not only the only person shooting there, he's the only one with a shotgun. So, in a number of the sequences it implies/shows he shoots repeatedly double-digit times... I'd suggest just showing NINE times is more than any shotgun can handle... Gun folks? Shotguns hold how many rounds typically?

And I repeat, for all you arguing...
^^And all this nonsense would be solved had he walked out with a bag of shotguns... There was no need for Hershal being a one man shotgun machinegun - It was a poor bit of writing/directing/editing. Don't see why people are questioning those of us picking fault with it?!

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 08:07 PM

Certainly because with some of them it's the same location, just a different camera angle, and Hershal is not only the only person shooting there, he's the only one with a shotgun. So, in a number of the sequences it implies/shows he shoots repeatedly double-digit times... I'd suggest just showing NINE times is more than any shotgun can handle...

The have a whole bag of shotguns man and just from the top of my head im pretty certain both glenn and tdog have shotguns too..

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 08:23 PM

and Hershal is not only the only person shooting there, he's the only one with a shotgun.

Glenn was also firing a shotgun from the Hyundai that he and Maggie were zooming around in....

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 08:32 PM

The have a whole bag of shotguns man and just from the top of my head im pretty certain both glenn and tdog have shotguns too..

They have a whole bag of "guns" man, up at the house. Shotguns were out at the cars being used for those ninja head-shots from a bouncing/moving vehicles. But Hershal was alone up at the house with a SINGLE shotgun. Can I suggest you watch it again....

You count how many times Hershal fires, or it implies Hershal fires in your opinion. See how many times it shows or implies he fires more than 5-7 rounds in a row... And then note how frequently it implies he fires. ie: How infrequently he seems to have to reload - Keeping in mind reloading must take 10-20 seconds at least.

I really don't see why some of you are being so defensive about this... Watch it again and behold the machine shotgun of Hershal :) They messed that sequence up, and there was no need for it to be the case! A bag of guns at his feet, and ONE SHOT OF HIM BENDING DOWN TO PICK UP A FRESH GUN! SORTED! Why defend the sequence?

Sammich

23-Mar-2012, 08:35 PM

So I just watched it again to see if my claims are valid. I've mentioned the episode time (approx) and a summary of events. Shots mentioned off camera are almost certainly meant to be Hershal IMHO:-
12:30 = Hershal shown firing nine times
12:40 = 2-3 shots off camera (no time to reload from previous shots)
12:47 = Hershal shown firing 4 more times (no time to reload from previous shots), stops to reload (shown)
13:06 = 2 shots off camera
13:12 = 2 shot off camera
13:17 = 7 shots on camera
13:30 = 5 shots off camera (no time to reload since previous 7 shots)

...continued/sporadic gunshots - possible meant to be Hershal

15:23 = 10 shots, stops to reload (shown)
15:51 = 1 shot (stops for a chat with Rick)

How many shells does your average pump action shotgun hold? 5-7?

He was shooting what looked like either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, both of which hold 5 in the magazine plus 1 in the chamber. In order to fire 40 rounds that meant having 7 shotguns. That bag o' shotguns would have weighed in over 50 lbs.

It could have been shown this way (the other non-Herschel scenes may be out of sequence because I only saw the episode once):

Herschel brings out bag o' guns and takes out 2 shotguns.
He tells one of his daughters to load while he shoots.
He starts blasting away.
Cut to the cowboys circling the wagons and shooting zombies.
Cut back to Herschel handing off empty shotgun to daughter and resuming his zombie shooting.
Show the daughter frantically loading a couple rounds.
Cut to Daryl doing his Easy Rider stuff
Cut back to Herschel shooting with hysterical Lori and Herschels other daughter in the background
Herschel refusing to leave and hands off empty shotgun to even more frantic reloading daughter dropping ammo on the ground.
Cut to Race with the Devil motorhome scene
Cut back to Herschel yelling at reloading daughter to go with Lori and other daughter.
Crying daughter reluctantly goes.
Defiant Herschel then begins to reload the shotgun himself.
Resume the normally scheduled episode.

The extra scenes would have taken very minimal screen time but would have added much to believability.

Having characters reload during a life or death situation can and has been used to heighten tension and give a sense of urgency to the situation. Remember that one scene in Dawn 78 of Steven and the zombie in the mall utilities room?

If you want to see a movie that showed realistic firearm use then I suggest Blackhawk Down. Tell me then if you see anything pointless, boring, or a waste of screen time showing delta and the rangers reloading and NOT blasting away from the hip in full-auto.

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 08:37 PM

They have a whole bag of "guns" man, up at the house.

If im not mistaken, the bag of guns is NOT at the house. Andrea has the bag with her. She goes through that bag as she's running along through the woods....

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 08:47 PM

Why defend the sequence?

Exactly the same reason your so insistant on picking on this scene, IE, ITS STUPID :lol:

My point the whole way through this has been "is it such a stretch of imagination that herschel could have reloaded off screen?" and that is still my point and which btw NOBODY has been able to counter. I never once said he had unlimited ammo or anything! Your point has changed several times now, first you said you saw him shoot off a load of rounds, which i said you clearly dont..then you changed it to you hear him shoot off a load of rounds off screen and you said he was the only one with a shotgun so it MUST be herschel shooting, which again i pointed out that glenn and tdog also have shotguns.. and now youve changed it to he shoots 5-7 rounds in a row.

How many times you wanna get shot down bro?

(pun intended)

:p

Neil

23-Mar-2012, 08:53 PM

Exactly the same reason your so insistant on picking on this scene, IE, ITS STUPID :lol:How is it stupid? The show was showing the impossible taking place? For not reason other than lazy writing/directing. Something that cold have easily have been solved.

My point the whole way through this has been...
It seems your point (the whole way through this) is to ignore exactly was is shown?

If you SEE him shooting NINE times from a shotgun that can only hold say FIVE rounds, surely a question mark appears in your head? If the camera then just changes angle, but its still exactly the same scene/sequence, and you hear additional shots, surely the question mark must get bigger?

And if there's a wall of zombies only 20ft away, and he'd need to stop for 10-20second to reload, and yet they don't reach him, still no question marks?

I've diligently and carefully watched the scene again... Have you?

Again, watch the scene, and you count how many time you think Hershal fires in a row without taking 10-20second breaks to reload. Do that, then comment. And don't give me some, "oh it could have been someone else shooting, or a car back firing" horseshit when clearly that's not what is being shown or implied.

Sorry if I sound "strong" here but, the scene just doesn't work very well. And there's no reason for it - A single bag of guns by his feet... A single shot showing him discarding an empty gun, and picking up a new one.... Sorted! All works perfectly...

bassman

23-Mar-2012, 08:57 PM

God I love this show. All of this reminds me of the Dawn04/Land days. Thank you, AMC. :lol:

Andy

23-Mar-2012, 09:00 PM

God I love this show. All of this reminds me of the Dawn04/Land days. Thank you, AMC. :lol:

DID SOMEONE MENTION LAND!?!?

http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2010/11/161110hulk.jpg

Moon Knight

23-Mar-2012, 10:57 PM

Eh, was he firing too many shots? Sure. Did we see him reload? Sure, you see him in the background going into his pockets while Lori is talking to Carol. Also, before Rick saves him from that walker creeping up behind him. Does it bother me? Nah, I found it funny. Either way, if these are things being argued about than the show is doing good in my book.

Also, that comment about wasting screen time looking for Sophia was interesting. Considering the very nice payoff at the end of the midsession would have been less powerful without it.

Tricky

23-Mar-2012, 11:46 PM

I present to the jury - Exhibit A
ix3EEipwRJk

Now how many rounds did Arnold manage to squeeze out of that one magazine on that machine gun without reloading? How did he manage to hose down every single target without looking down the sights once? Why could not a single soldier in that "piss ant" army hit him despite emptying entire clips in his direction when he wasnt even behind cover? Why does a grenade not turn him into pink mist? Why do anti-personnel mines planted outside buildings cause them to explode from the inside with the power of a cruise missile? Why does Arnold have about 60 rounds on the ammo belt on that M60, yet manages to fire off around 2000 without the belt even depleting at all?

And this, your honour, is why I was prepared to ever so slightly suspend belief with regards the amount of shells in Herschels shotgun when holding off the shambling hordes of the undead, and for my imagination to tell me that he reloaded between scenes when the camera was pointing elsewhere. Ladies and gentleman of the jury, you are free to deliberate. :p

Anyway, loved the episode, great end to the season and it has completely torn up the "safe" image of the farm, and nicely sets things up for season 3! Would you have stayed with Rick when he made his speech, or would you have thought "Dont be bossing me around sunshine, I've got a gun as well" and gone off on your own?

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 12:14 AM

Now how many rounds did Arnold manage to squeeze out of that one magazine on that machine gun without reloading? How did he manage to hose down every single target without looking down the sights once? Why could not a single soldier in that "piss ant" army hit him despite emptying entire clips in his direction when he wasnt even behind cover? Why does a grenade not turn him into pink mist? Why do anti-personnel mines planted outside buildings cause them to explode from the inside with the power of a cruise missile? Why does Arnold have about 60 rounds on the ammo belt on that M60, yet manages to fire off around 2000 without the belt even depleting at all?

We're bringing arnie into this now!? Even though (i think) we are on the same side in this debate, i feel i must point out all of these questions can be answered with 2 words.. ITS ARNIE.

I would hate to sit through an arnie film with you if your going to attempt to bring any kind of logic or realism into it... :shifty:

BTW your clip there just misses my favourite music cue in commando, when arnie is running up the beach from the plane. pure EPIC.

Tricky

24-Mar-2012, 12:33 AM

Haha we are indeed on the same side, I had no problem with Hershel shooting off all those shells with the shotgun, like I say I just let my imagination tell me that he reloaded off camera. I bring Arnie into it because despite Commando being a hugely enjoyable film, the unlimited ammo of the weapons goes into ridiculous territory which really does suspend belief, so this slight issue with this small scene in TWD is really nothing to worry about in this awesome zombie show we're being treated to.
The question that bugs me more is why they havent picked up any automatic weapons yet? In the first season Rick and the others came across several different military blockades which had been overrun, so were these soldiers either unarmed or had all their assault rifles and light machine guns been scooped up by other survivors or retrieved by their comrades before they withdrew to somewhere that we havent seen yet?

rgc2005

24-Mar-2012, 01:55 AM

One thing I truly love about this show is the characters are as real as the rest of us. Everyone, in their own way is bi-polar, selfish, indecisive, etc with absolutely zero idea of what they really want. Even Rick is not sure of what he wants and his sense of duty prevents him from acting often. Leadership and Personal-Familial Safety do not go hand in hand which is why he always runs off on fool's errands.

Would you have stayed with Rick when he made his speech, or would you have thought "Dont be bossing me around sunshine, I've got a gun as well" and gone off on your own?
Only in the movie world would anybody leave at that moment. If none of them stood up during the Shane vs Rick Barn scene then none will leave in the middle of the night with no ammo.
(Not until I get my hands on Hershel's Shotgun and Rick's 357 with the "Infinite Ammo" code locked.)

FYI, Season 1 when Rick joins the group Shane sees the empty Python and offers Rick a handful of loose bullets from his range bag. These days .357 rimmed is nowhere near available as is 9mm, .45 or .40 auto but it is Rick's primary weapon and he shoots it ALOT.
FYI, there were scenes showing Shane stocking the Kia for a long term bug out and Glenn at one point mentioned putting water in the trunks of the vehicles. BUT THEY NEVER CHECK THEIR SURROUNDINGS, CLEAR BUILDINGS OR SCAVENGE UNLESS RICK TELLS THEM. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! facepalm fail.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/554930_251324088295435_213828875378290_524001_1940 77411_n.jpg

Sammich

24-Mar-2012, 06:33 AM

FYI, Season 1 when Rick joins the group Shane sees the empty Python and offers Rick a handful of loose bullets from his range bag. These days .357 rimmed is nowhere near available as is 9mm, .45 or .40 auto but it is Rick's primary weapon and he shoots it ALOT.

Rick might now be shooting .38 specials from the Python since Lori and at least one other person (Daryl?) appear to be using those caliber revolvers also.

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 08:16 AM

I just let my imagination tell me that he reloaded off camera
We SEE him shooting nine rounds, and then you can HEAR him shooting another half a dozen immediately afterwards with no space for reloading. For me (& others) its a real roll-eyes moment. The program is clearly telling the viewing Hershal is firing over a dozen shots in a row from a shotgun and not having to reload. It also gives the impression he's reloading all these rounds in a matter of a few seconds.

When I watch this (the first time) it broke me out of the scene. I realised the writers were clearly telling me a lie, so it (unnecessarily) detached me a bit from the events being shown.

So I will repeat again, the scene could have been made 'believable' and had more depth if the writers/director had given it just a couple of seconds of attention. And I'll ask again why anyone is disputing this?

ie: Hershal drops a bag for shotguns by his feet, and just once we see him digging into the bag for another gun. OR, as others have suggested, his daughter is next to him for a while reloading a second gun. Either of these adds believability and even more importantly, depth to the scene. So, what's to dispute? Why not keep it believable and more interesting (at no expense in screentime)?

I apologise again if I sound as if I'm being overzealous, or confrontational on this matter. But I really do see it as a sign of lazy writing/directing. It means the writers are not following the rules and playing fairly with the audience, and this is risky. Someone dropped the ball here and they had numerous chances to catch it again, but chose not to, of forgot to even try. Surely we want the series to be as well thought out, deep and believable as possible. And if this can be achieve at no expense other than a bit of considered thinking, then what's the problem?

-- -------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 AM ----------

The question that bugs me more is why they havent picked up any automatic weapons yet? In the first season Rick and the others came across several different military blockades which had been overrun, so were these soldiers either unarmed or had all their assault rifles and light machine guns been scooped up by other survivors or retrieved by their comrades before they withdrew to somewhere that we havent seen yet?
Also, why don't they use trucks more often to mow/slow creatures down...

MinionZombie

24-Mar-2012, 11:31 AM

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15ldq84qa1r5d224o1_400.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

Oh my, that gave me my first good chuckle of the day. :D

God I love this show. All of this reminds me of the Dawn04/Land days. Thank you, AMC. :lol:

DEAR GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Would you have stayed with Rick when he made his speech, or would you have thought "Dont be bossing me around sunshine, I've got a gun as well" and gone off on your own?

Thank heavens - a DIFFERENT TOPIC OF CONVERSATION AT LONG F*CKING LAST!

I'd definitely stick with Rick ... hey, there's a campaign sticker "Stick with Rick 2012" :lol: ... but if you're in an opposing viewpoint it could be "Rick's a Dick 2012". :lol:

But yeah, I'd definitely stay with Rick. I'm sure he'll continue to take on board the opinions, criticisms, and concerns of the rest of the group, but in such a situation decisions have to be made, not cobbled together and half-assed. Shit needs to be done in order to continue surviving - however, naturally, this is stopping just short of 'going the whole Shane' on any given situation. They're stronger together than they are apart, FACT.

We SEE him shooting nine rounds, and then...

Oh Jesus Christ, is this still being talked about?! :stunned:

*runs like a screaming madman from the thread in search of a well to dive down for a bit of peace and quiet ... ... ... ... ... wait a minute, what's that smell?* :shifty:

Also, why don't they use trucks more often to mow/slow creatures down...

Would you want to go and get them? :p Perhaps if you come across one naturally and have the time and space to deal with it, but if there's no keys and you don't know how to hotwire something, there's no point. In Dawn it was convenient and part of an actual plan specific to their needs.

However this does remind me of the RV - left abandoned by the burning barn ... ... I wonder if it survived at all? I mean, it was right next to an inferno, so it might be gone for good. :( On the other hand, it might have survived (something which I'm sure some members here would very much enjoy endlessly bitching about :sneaky: ... but an RV would certainly be a useful tool. You can hold numerous people and supplies inside one vehicle, which doubles as a mobile watch tower, rather than separate vehicles ... ... but well, I do wonder if the RV's just flat out burned out now. :( Then again, if you can fix corroded parts with a screwdriver, it can survive an inferno ... *cue the ultra-nitpickers* :rolleyes::p:sneaky::D

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 11:50 AM

Oh Jesus Christ, is this still being talked about?! :stunned:
Yes we are! And I'm going to carry on till every last one of you mutter futters agrees I'm totally and utterly 100% right! Yeh! So stick that up your shotgun and shoot it out 12 times in a row! :)

Moon Knight

24-Mar-2012, 11:51 AM

MZ, sadly, the RV was shown on fire along with the barn. It's toast.

niiru

24-Mar-2012, 11:51 AM

How is it stupid? The show was showing the impossible taking place? For not reason other than lazy writing/directing. Something that cold have easily have been solved.

Since we've seemingly already acquiesced to the idea that it's acceptable to not show the entire drive time as they're rolling down the back hills of Georgia heading to points unknown, can we also accept that possibly, just possibly, some of the battle was compressed? I.e. your timeline from your previous post may not have been *real time*?

There is no clock on the screen showing you time elapsing. There is no sense for what is occurring simultaneously, for how the hershel scene unfolds temporally. Perhaps what you see on the screen as happening in a few minutes is actually happening over the course of 15 or 30 minutes. Perhaps one of the roving bands of ninja shooters in vehicles is helping keep the herd back from hershel shooting in that direction giving him cover to reload.

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 12:13 PM

There is no clock on the screen showing you time elapsing. There is no sense for what is occurring simultaneously, for how the hershel scene unfolds temporally. Perhaps what you see on the screen as happening in a few minutes is actually happening over the course of 15 or 30 minutes. Perhaps one of the roving bands of ninja shooters in vehicles is helping keep the herd back from hershel shooting in that direction giving him cover to reload.
Nope... Some of the scenes are certainly shown to imply actual real time...
- Twice we see him shooting NINE or MORE times in one sequence. I don't believe a regular shotgun can hold that many rounds? Can someone comment?
- Immediately subsequent scenes are then certainly presented such that they are a continuation timewise, and yet even more rounds are fired without a pause to reload.

So he is shown shooting nine or ten times, and then editing implies he shoots yet even more! And then the fact he holds off the dead (seen infront of him) implies he is able to shoot and reload at a huge rate of knots. ie: He doesn't have to stop for 20 seconds to fumble in another dozen (?) cartridges. If he had to stop for twenty seconds, they'd be on him?

There's no getting around it; the writing, direction, or editing is unnecessarily at fault. It could have been done better with only a minuscule amount of attention to render the sequence 100% believable, and thus have far more depth. Again, why question this? What would be the problem with Hershal having a bag of 3-4 shotguns at his feet?

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 12:17 PM

Your not right though neil, look at you.. you have 4 or 5 people here against 1. That makes you wrong by majority decision :p

bassman

24-Mar-2012, 12:27 PM

MZ, sadly, the RV was shown on fire along with the barn. It's toast.

I was more upset about watching the RV burn than I was for Jimmy and Otis' wife's death.

Which also brings up the question...why should I care about their deaths? They were only put in the show to die and had absolutely no purpose. Particularly Jimmy....

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 12:28 PM

I was more upset about watching the RV burn than I was for Jimmy and Otis' wife's death.....
Did the RV doors opening scene feel a bit contrived to folks too? ie: They just sort of sprang open? :) I guess thinking about it though, if they weren't specifically locked, they'd do that!?

bassman

24-Mar-2012, 12:30 PM

Damn, Neil. You have to stop overthinking it, man. :lol:

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 12:37 PM

Your not right though neil, look at you.. you have 4 or 5 people here against 1. That makes you wrong by majority decision :p

Two points:-
1) Can I assume correctly, you still haven't re-watched it? But you'll still pass comment?
2) How can I be wrong? He's shown shooting 9-10 times without reloading, even ignoring the scenes then continue immediately on to imply he shoots even more rounds (without reloading). And the fact there's walkers that don't reach him in the 10-20 seconds he'd need to reload?

Seems like you're defending the indensable, for the sake of it? Just explain to me how a bag of shotguns at Hershal's feet would have done anything other than improved/explained the whole scene?

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 12:49 PM

Two points:-
1) Can I assume correctly, you still haven't re-watched it? But you'll still pass comment?
2) How can I be wrong? He's shown shooting 9-10 times, even ignoring the scenes then continue immediately on to imply he shoots even more rounds. And the fact there's walkers that can't reach him in the 10-20 seconds he'd need to reload?

Seems like you're defending the indensable, for the sake of it? Just explain to me how a bag of shotguns at Hershal's feet would have done anything other than improved/explained the whole scene?

1) I actually have watched it again, i put it on when i came off here last night and saw the them fleeing the farm but fell asleep before ricks epic speech :( BUT my opinion remains unchanged.

2)The point everyone here is trying to make to you is that IT REALLY DOSNT NEED TO BE EXPLAINED. Its implied that he reloads off screen or its a not a huge leap of faith to imagine him reloading off screen or what your seeing isnt exactly "real time".. Different people here are putting it different ways but nobody here is saying that herschel had access to unlimited ammo, all we're saying is we dont feel like it would improve or explain the reloading if you saw a bag of guns at herschels feet and him stopping shooting, throwing one down and picking another up. It would totally blow the pacing of the scene if you ask me and it really REALLY isnt something that needs to be explained to you in the TV show! It should just be taken that herschel is reloading when the camera is off.

Come on man id expect this kind of argument from a gun-toting redneck but from you? this is below you :p

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 12:50 PM

Damn, Neil. You have to stop overthinking it, man. :lol:

How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary!

bassman

24-Mar-2012, 12:59 PM

How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary!

I was mostly just poking fun with you. We all know that overthinking it is what we do here at HPotD. :lol:

At this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing with you about Hershel's shots being unrealistic. I think now most of us have seen that he does indeed fire too many shots at certain times, but we just don't see it as that big of a deal. Sure, it could have been corrected in post production, but thankfully they focused on more important things like telling a compelling story.

I applaud your attention to detail, but I think most people wouldn't have noticed. Most likely because of the "unlimited ammo cheat", as seen in every movie with guns in the past fifty years...

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 01:07 PM

I actually have watched it again

So then I assume you can confirm what I'm stating?:-
1) He is shown shooting 9-10 rounds in a row, followed by a change of camera angle (not implying a change of time) where then he continues shooting even more rounds?
2) There's walking dead 20 feet or so infront of him, that for some reason cannot reach him when he needs to stop to reload (eg: for 20) seconds?

Andy, you do realise shotguns typically hold about 5-7 rounds (from my limited understand)?

It would totally blow the pacing of the scene if you ask me.Poppy-cock! :)

So you're telling me, in the scene where we see him in the background, stopping to reload, if he instead was shown dropped the gun in his hand, bending over, and picked up another, that would "totally blow the pacing of the scene?" Can I ask how so? Not 1 second of time difference, only shows him doing something else? And it completely explains how he is able to shoot so often/so much...

Why are you arguing this isn't anything but the case?

-- -------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

It this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing with you about Hershel's shots being unrealistic. I think now most of us have seen that he does indeed fire too many shots at certain times, but we just don't see it as that big of a deal.
Oh, it's absolutely not a big deal... I just found a real shame, at such a tense/crux moment, I was brought out of the episode by such a daft unnecessary oversight :(

MinionZombie

24-Mar-2012, 01:11 PM

Yes we are! And I'm going to carry on till every last one of you mutter futters agrees I'm totally and utterly 100% right! Yeh! So stick that up your shotgun and shoot it out 12 times in a row! :)

NEVER!

MZ, sadly, the RV was shown on fire along with the barn. It's toast.

Damn, must have forgotten that bit ... I guess I'll have to rewatch the whole second half of season two again then, oh dear, what a shame! :sneaky::p

RIP Dale's RV and indeed RIP Dale.

I was more upset about watching the RV burn than I was for Jimmy and Otis' wife's death.

Which also brings up the question...why should I care about their deaths? They were only put in the show to die and had absolutely no purpose. Particularly Jimmy....

Jimmy wasn't much of a character in the source material anyway, and you need a bit of cannon fodder now and then, and if it hadn't have been for Jimmy, Rick and Carl would have been stuck on the top of a burning barn for quite some time. :p

Patricia was more useful - a source of grief after Otis, and rather useful medically speaking, but she also had more to do in general anyway. I thought the scene where she died was handled quite well though, with the young chick (keep forgetting her name!) clinging onto her hand desperately. I felt that was quite a horrific and emotional scene - well performed. Interesting to hear that the actress who plays Patricia really got into the scene and was kinda freaking out afterwards.

How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary!

Because you're STILL focussing on a ruddy shotgun, when the episode saw two side characters die, the death of the RV, Rick 'fess up to the group that he killed Shane, Lori lash out in anger at her own culpability, a massive shoot out of awesomeness take place, Glenn tell Maggie he loved her, Hershel stand in line behind Rick (seemingly shifting into becoming his right hand man), Daryl be super cool, Carol freak out, and then DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN - the prison is revealed ... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head ... and yet, days later, you're STILL banging on about a flipping shotgun! :rolleyes:

Have mercy, Neil ... mercy! :p

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 01:16 PM

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 01:19 PM

Because you're STILL focussing on a ruddy shotgun, when the episode saw two side characters die, the death of the RV, Rick 'fess up to the group that he killed Shane, Lori lash out in anger at her own culpability, a massive shoot out of awesomeness take place, Glenn tell Maggie he loved her, Hershel stand in line behind Rick (seemingly shifting into becoming his right hand man), Daryl be super cool, Carol freak out, and then DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN - the prison is revealed ... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head ... and yet, days later, you're STILL banging on about a flipping shotgun! :rolleyes
What shotgun? :)

In all seriousness, as I've said before the episode was pretty good, but I think some of its predecessors were better.

But the shotgun shooting like a dozen+ rounds, and the inability for walkers to cover just 20ft or so to Hershal when he'd need to be reloading repeatedly for 20+ seconds, just screemed "foul" to me. And let's remember, other characters could hardly even outrun the things, but somehow Hershal could take nice long 20 seconds breaks every half dozen shots to reload? What happened, were the walkers playing statues while he reloaded? :) Didn't feel right...

And the interesting thing is, most people say they're seemingly more than happy with these issues and instead argue the toss, rather than just agreeing it could have been better if reworked at no expense other than possibly a bag at Hershal's feet? Don't understand it...

ps: I'm tempted to ask about the hooded figure with the zombies chained to him, but TBH I don't want that spoiled :)

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 01:32 PM

ps: I'm tempted to ask about the hooded figure with the zombies chained to him, but TBH I don't want that spoiled :)

I answered that like 3 pages ago, its a women btw, not a man. If you wanna know more then click below. I posted her back story from the comics. Obviously dont click if you wanna wait til season 3 :p

Clicky (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20017-TWD-2x13-quot-Beside-The-Dying-Fire-quot-episode-discussion...-**SPOILERS-WITHIN**&p=281160&viewfull=1#post281160)

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 01:35 PM

I answered that like 3 pages ago, its a women btw, not a man. If you wanna know more then click below. I posted her back story from the comics. Obviously dont click if you wanna wait til season 3 :p

Clicky (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20017-TWD-2x13-quot-Beside-The-Dying-Fire-quot-episode-discussion...-**SPOILERS-WITHIN**&p=281160&viewfull=1#post281160)
Knowing that is even more information than I want to know... ***LA LA LA - NOT LISTENING - LA LA LA***

Andy

24-Mar-2012, 01:40 PM

Knowing that is even more information than I want to know... ***LA LA LA - NOT LISTENING - LA LA LA***

AH-HA! ive found your weakness!! :elol:

now admit im right about the guns or ill post the whole thing without spoiler tags :p

Neil

24-Mar-2012, 02:02 PM

AH-HA! ive found your weakness!! :elol:

now admit im right about the guns or ill post the whole thing without spoiler tags :p
OK OK! Mercy! You're right! Hershal's thirteen round holding shotgun, with its innovative quick two second reload feature, was absolutely the right choice, and in no way detracts from the episode... His Tardis pocket(s) for the 30+ rounds were also a great idea!

rgc2005

24-Mar-2012, 02:32 PM

The magic shotgun did tend to distract from the overall badass-ness of the episode. I read once that there is a finite limit to the number of times directors can ask audiences to suspend disbelief. After that limit is reached a story rapidly falls from tense drama to comedic farce. TWD got really close this time around.

sandrock74

24-Mar-2012, 03:49 PM

Forget the infinite ammo stuff.

More pee pee and more pooh pooh needs to be shown on screen, or I'm out! Totally unbelievable that no one goes number 1 or 2 throughout the day.

Also, I want to see them all sleeping in every episode. I can't believe that none of them sleeps!

More realism during the zombie apocalypse!

MinionZombie

24-Mar-2012, 05:42 PM

You missed Jenners Revelation :p

Oh yeah, and that. :p

Although the revelation wasn't much of a shock to me, as many of us had theorised just that here on HPOTD ... and Shane resurrecting from just a stab wound in 2x12 kind of gives that whole reveal away a bit, doesn't it? :p

Forget the infinite ammo stuff.

More pee pee and more pooh pooh needs to be shown on screen, or I'm out! Totally unbelievable that no one goes number 1 or 2 throughout the day.

Also, I want to see them all sleeping in every episode. I can't believe that none of them sleeps!

More realism during the zombie apocalypse!

:lol:

And nobody ever gets a bogey up their nose, and Andrew Lincoln's beard never gets longer, and nobody ever brushes their teeth/mentions they could all use a TicTac, and... :sneaky::p

...

Returning, briefly, to the issue of Hershel 'stopping to have a chat' - horse shit. Reviewing that scene it ain't any kind of chat I've heard of. Rick saves Hershel, shouts about Lori being missing, Hershel doesn't know, Rick says they need to go and find Lori, Hershel won't leave but then Rick drags him away. That is NOT a "chat", and considering the shouting and fast pace of the dialogue, they're not in danger of being surrounded by exchanging a couple of sentences that pertain to the plot. :rolleyes:

Stopping to have a "chat" in the midst of danger would be that episode of Doctor Who called, IIRC, "42" where a space ship is crashing towards a sun - in real time (42 minutes) - and more than once the characters have time to have a pointless chat about bullshit that has nothing to do with stopping the space ship from crashing into a sun (or whatever it was). The aforementioned scene in TWD2x13 was nothing like that.

/rant ... glad I got that discussion peeve off my chest.

rgc2005

24-Mar-2012, 05:47 PM

MinionZombie

24-Mar-2012, 06:11 PM

Agreed.
Seeing the group flip out when Glen brings back toilet paper or a functioning iPod would be nice.
PS, I listened to a Mazzara interview and he admitted to reading these boards looking for tips. Maybe a Mod should create a special heavily modded "Glenn Mazzara Please Read!!!" thread??

Well if he happens to be reading this, then I'd very much like a job, please. ;)

Then I can satiate some of my HPOTD brothers (a whole episode dedicated to waking up, realising it's the end of the world, and then having a bit of a lie in), and irk the rest (we see every single footstep, inhaled breath, exhaled breath, eye scratch, bum scratch, ear wiggle, bum jiggle, and polite cough for every single member of the group lest "realism" be burnt at the nearest stake made of nitpicks), muahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa! :elol:

...

Also wanted to say that I went back to pay closer attention to the RV, and indeed as I can now see (I was too distracted by all the sheer chaos happening on screen), that poor old Dale's RV was indeed burnt to a shell ... awww. :(

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/3/20/15/enhanced-buzz-wide-9993-1332273264-4.jpg

...

Plus, I'm surprised Neil hasn't complained about this yet. :sneaky:
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/user_photos/1252897/b88e04cd98ab1b28b7fea483cacebc52_width_600x.jpg

Many more new memes here - http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20029-Get-out-of-here-Carl!!!!&p=281455#post281455 - by the way. :cool:

AcesandEights

24-Mar-2012, 07:56 PM

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/3/20/15/enhanced-buzz-wide-9993-1332273264-4.jpg

Amen. That looks beautiful, too!

Sammich

24-Mar-2012, 08:43 PM

Nope... Some of the scenes are certainly shown to imply actual real time...
- Twice we see him shooting NINE or MORE times in one sequence. I don't believe a regular shotgun can hold that many rounds? Can someone comment?

The only shotgun I have seen on the show that holds 8+1 is Shane's Mossberg 590, which Glenn was using during the zombie rodeo.

Herschel's unlimited ammo was noticed by MANY people and has become a running joke. Just do a google search on "the walking dead herschel unlimited ammo". They were even talking about it on a football forum.

If the writers keep on this path, the show will start to look like the House of the Dead movie.

P224BTri7RQ

AcesandEights

24-Mar-2012, 09:08 PM

Herschel's unlimited ammo was noticed by MANY people and has become a running joke. Just do a google search on "the walking dead herschel unlimited ammo". They were even talking about it on a football forum.
True, but I don't think it's a big deal for most of the 7 odd million viewers. It's the internet and if people don't bitch they'll shrivel up and die. I also agree with Moonknight (I believe), who said up thread, if the biggest thing some people on the internet have to get in a huff over is a common picayune gunplay trope, then they're doing something right on this show.

That said...

If the writers keep on this path, the show will start to look like the House of the Dead movie.

I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but I do sympathize. My one hopeful thing I can say in this regard is that the community is sooooo loud and Kirkman and Mazarra seem pretty responsive and hooked into the community's feedback that they may learn from this. That's my hope, anyway.

facestabber

24-Mar-2012, 10:34 PM

How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary!

As I watched this sequence I too cringed at the Hershal shotgun scenes. For the record the shotgun he was firing holds 4-5 in the tub and one chambered. I carry an 870 for work and it holds 4 in the mag and 1 chambered. The shotgun Glen has, has a mag tube extension on it which typically adds 3 rnds to the mag capacity. So he would be able to fire 7-8 rnds. The head shots from the car with handguns bothered me even more. I am a very good shooter and that is more than difficult. Gimme a 12 gauge with buckshot and I could get some headshots in for sure.

But even though those scenes bothered me this is my favorite show on television ever. Call me a fanboy I dont care. I've been waiting for something like this since I saw Dawn at a drive-in.

darth los

25-Mar-2012, 08:25 AM

I don't see how shots heard off screen are meant to be Hershel. Sure, they could be, but how many people were shooting on the farm at the point? It could have been anyone...

Well, not really.... how many people actually had shoutguns? I count herschel and glenn. That point was just made.... by you i think. So that raises the probability of offscreen shotgun blasts being herschel to 50%.

:cool:

-- -------- Post added at 04:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 AM ----------

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15ldq84qa1r5d224o1_400.jpg

Exactly. He obviously beat the walking dead in under 5 hours.

:cool:

-- -------- Post added at 04:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 AM ----------

Plus, I'm surprised Neil hasn't complained about this yet. :sneaky:
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/user_photos/1252897/b88e04cd98ab1b28b7fea483cacebc52_width_600x.jpg

Many more new memes here - http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20029-Get-out-of-here-Carl!!!!&p=281455#post281455 - by the way. :cool:

This is the point that i brought up earlier in the thread. You bring up a glaring continuity error on people want to bring up the most trivial things.

Ok. For the purposes of immersing youserlf into anything whether it be A book, a game or movie, Anything that takes you out of the moment is not a good thing. Now we don't see people relieving themselves on camera but it's easily explained. We can say with certainty that people went to the bathroom even if we didn't see it just as if asked if they were breathing as well. The blazer? It could have easily been inside herschel's truck. Fine whatever that doesn't bother me. Alot of things in film that happen offscreen are just assumed and accepted.

But the Herschel Shotgun/ammo thing there's not explanation for. It's not happening offscreen. It's happenning right before our eyes.

He.....is......not.......relaoding. Yet continues to fire shot after shot.

Upon seeing this blatant "cheat" I am immediatley taken out the scene cause by all rights, standing where he was, the old man should be dead.

:cool:

Neil

25-Mar-2012, 09:44 AM

Upon seeing this blatant "cheat" I am immediatley taken out the scene cause by all rights, standing where he was, the old man should be dead.
Pretty much my take on it too. He'd stop for 10-20seconds to reload (in the dark, under pressure), by which time he'd have half a dozen zombies on him... But nope, the writers forbade that, so it felt wrong and a bit like a cheat. So it detracts from the scene...

-- -------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

P224BTri7RQ
That (although obviously edited for greater effect) is pretty funny :)

MinionZombie

25-Mar-2012, 11:35 AM

Oh for the love of Dale, are we still talking about this f*cking shotgun issue?! :eek:

Can we PLEASE talk about something else already?!

Neil

25-Mar-2012, 12:25 PM

Oh for the love of Dale, are we still talking about this f*cking shotgun issue?! :eek:

Can we PLEASE talk about something else already?!
Come on! That video is pretty clever/funny!

And besides, we were covering important blazer related matters just a second ago! What more do you want?! :)

bassman

25-Mar-2012, 12:26 PM

PS, I listened to a Mazzara interview and he admitted to reading these boards looking for tips. Maybe a Mod should create a special heavily modded "Glenn Mazzara Please Read!!!" thread??

He mentioned this board by name? There are several TWD forums out there. I doubt he would be too interested in a forum not specifically dedicated to the show. Although we do know for sure that Norman Reedus has been here, thanks to Tricky.

While I hate to continue adding to the silly shotgun debate....after a quick google search I found that there are indeed shotguns that can hold ten shells. I'm no expert, so I have no idea what Hershel was using, but it is possible....

MinionZombie

25-Mar-2012, 12:43 PM

Come on! That video is pretty clever/funny!

And besides, we were covering important blazer related matters just a second ago! What more do you want?! :)

Yeah the video was okay, but can we PLEASE move on to more interesting and fruitful topics of conversation? This is starting to turn into the dreaded Land of the Dead/money issue! :eek:

Let's head back to a more interesting topic of debate, which was touched on briefly (before getting trampled by yet more shotgun whinging :shifty:), namely the "Ricktatorship" - would you "Stick with Rick" and follow him, or say "Rick's a Dick" and head off on your own?

bassman

25-Mar-2012, 12:55 PM

"Ricktatorship" - would you "Stick with Rick" and follow him, or say "Rick's a Dick" and head off on your own?

Just like we saw in the show, I would be a bit startled by Rick's "I killed my best friend for you people!" comment. Sure, he did what he had to do, but to the other members of the group it looks like he's willing to kill whoever doesn't agree with him. Especially after the "democracy" portion.

Imagine not having viewed Shane's death as an audience member, then imagine being part of the group during Rick's speech. It doesn't look too good....

Neil

25-Mar-2012, 02:43 PM

Just like we saw in the show, I would be a bit startled by Rick's "I killed my best friend for you people!" comment. Sure, he did what he had to do, but to the other members of the group it looks like he's willing to kill whoever doesn't agree with him. Especially after the "democracy" portion.

Imagine not having viewed Shane's death as an audience member, then imagine being part of the group during Rick's speech. It doesn't look too good....It did seem to ruffle the group up, to say the least!

MinionZombie

25-Mar-2012, 05:38 PM

A fair point, bassman ... but then I'd ask him to explain, give a bit of context. Funnily enough this loops around to what you need to show and what you don't need to show if-and-when on screen. We the audience know the reasoning, so Rick could very easily explain the back story off-screen entirely, and then just have one of the characters reference him telling them all in 3x01 so that we know that they know, you know? :)

It would certainly be a waste of time, and a pace-killer, for Rick to have such a conversation with the group at the height of 2x13 ... however such a conversation could fit into 3x01 to cover some loose ends from the season two finale. Indeed it would be a messed up thing to hear from him, but after he provides some context, it'd make a lot more sense. Also, it'd be a foolish idea to go swanning off on your own or as a duo into the world - you're much stronger in a group, even one that's gone through a hellish night.

...

Also just thinking about Andrea - poor lass was running all ruddy day! She was running from zombies before dawn, then all day, and then it was after dusk before Michonne turned up ... ... I bet she was fucking knackered! :D

niiru

25-Mar-2012, 06:07 PM

Moving on from ammo related points, what the hell was the point of setting the barn on fire without an immediate exit strategy? Wouldn't it have been safer to climb up into the loft and kick down the ladder while trying to flag down someone's attention from the hayloft door? Lets say Rick sets fire to the barn, climbs up there with Carl and NO ONE COMES. Now, instead of being able to survive until they starve or die of thirst, they end up going down down down in a burning barn of fire. Would anyone else here turn on the oven and climb in?

Neil

25-Mar-2012, 06:08 PM

kidgloves

25-Mar-2012, 06:30 PM

krisvds

25-Mar-2012, 07:02 PM

Setting the barn on fire to get the attention of the rest of the team was the plan all along. See, that's why it's a ricktatorship now ...

bassman

25-Mar-2012, 07:11 PM

A fair point, bassman ... but then I'd ask him to explain, give a bit of context. Funnily enough this loops around to what you need to show and what you don't need to show if-and-when on screen. We the audience know the reasoning, so Rick could very easily explain the back story off-screen entirely, and then just have one of the characters reference him telling them all in 3x01 so that we know that they know, you know? :)

That's certainly possible. Although, within the context of 213, it's reasonable to assume the other members of the group are looking at Rick like he's totally lost his marbles. All they know at this point is that Shane is dead and Rick had a hand in it. Rick never really gave a good explaination. So from the other characters' point of view, Rick is looking a bit shady right now.

On a different note.....I've been reading all across the internet that Lori tempted Rick to kill Shane, then became angry with him for doing so. Do you guys agree with this? I don't see it that way at all. She's not upset that Rick killed Shane, she's upset that her son not only saw it happen, but participated. While it may be a shock to think Shane is finally gone, she's more angry with Rick because Carl was there. Not by Rick's choice, of course....

kidgloves

25-Mar-2012, 07:53 PM

On a different note.....I've been reading all across the internet that Lori tempted Rick to kill Shane, then became angry with him for doing so. Do you guys agree with this? I don't see it that way at all. She's not upset that Rick killed Shane, she's upset that her son not only saw it happen, but participated. While it may be a shock to think Shane is finally gone, she's more angry with Rick because Carl was there. Not by Rick's choice, of course....

No i don't agree at all. The very 1st conversation and scene that Shane and Rick have in the pilot when they are talking about Lori shows up her character very well. She is a very indecisive woman who has no idea what she wants and doesn't think about the consequences of her actions

White_Zombie

25-Mar-2012, 07:57 PM

No i don't agree at all. The very 1st conversation and scene that Shane and Rick have in the pilot when they are talking about Lori shows up her character very well. She is a very indecisive woman who has no idea what she wants and doesn't think about the consequences of her actions

Agreed, couldn't of said it better myself.

Can't wait until she bites the bullet or should i say the walkers bite her.

AnxietyDilemma

25-Mar-2012, 09:14 PM

That's certainly possible. Although, within the context of 213, it's reasonable to assume the other members of the group are looking at Rick like he's totally lost his marbles. All they know at this point is that Shane is dead and Rick had a hand in it. Rick never really gave a good explaination. So from the other characters' point of view, Rick is looking a bit shady right now.

I know that Rick came across as unstable, but he did say that Shane killed Randall, and then lead Rick into the woods to put a bullet in his back. That sums it up, whether they believe him or not, I don't know.

darth los

25-Mar-2012, 10:00 PM

There's no doubt that shane killed randall. Darryl and glenn confirmed it. So they know two things. Shane explicity went against Rick's wishes and shane is a cold blooded murderer.

Up until this point Rick has shown himself to be a man of honor and at the very least doesn't take matters of life and death lightly. Shane on the other hand has been a tempermental loose cannon from the start. Until proof surfaces that he's lying Rick gets the benefit of the doubt from me. His explanation about what happened makes logcal sense.

What do we know about what happens when one goes off on missions with shane? He kills or tries to kill you. It happened to otis, randall and rick in 18 miles out.

So why have most of the able bodied men in the woods looking for a man he knew was already dead? The answer is obvious. If anyone knows that lori does. She's the only other living soul that knows about the love triangle and if the rest of the group knew what she did what rick said wouldn't seem so horrible.

IF anything Darryl has proven to be a good judge of character and able to sniff out bullshit as he did with shane's story about otis.

:cool:

MinionZombie

26-Mar-2012, 09:44 AM

They were probably going to get out of the barn the same way Glen got in when he was meeting Maggie to bump some uglies and saw the zombies in the barn

^^^
This...

Setting the barn on fire to get the attention of the rest of the team was the plan all along. See, that's why it's a ricktatorship now ...

^^^
And this...

No i don't agree at all. The very 1st conversation and scene that Shane and Rick have in the pilot when they are talking about Lori shows up her character very well. She is a very indecisive woman who has no idea what she wants and doesn't think about the consequences of her actions

I go with Mazzara on the issue - she'd realised that she loves both men, but that she'd also been setting them against each other by her actions, and then toss in Carl, and her also having a shock of Rick killing Shane, and it's a big old head-fuck for Lori ... speaking of whom, I don't understand some of the sheer vitriol her character receives in some quarters of the internet.

Thorn

26-Mar-2012, 11:09 AM

I go with Mazzara on the issue - she'd realized that she loves both men, but that she'd also been setting them against each other by her actions, and then toss in Carl, and her also having a shock of Rick killing Shane, and it's a big old head-fuck for Lori ... speaking of whom, I don't understand some of the sheer vitriol her character receives in some quarters of the internet.

I used to defend her on these forums quite a bit, but there are several reasons I personally dislike Lori at this time.

1) Her get in the kitchen speech to Andrea, I think it shows a lack of character on her part. It shows she lacks intelligence, and is controlling. It shows that she has a closed mind, and has a view of the world that is rooted back in the 50's. Women cook and clean... in the kitchen...barefoot and pregnant.
2) She is a horrible mother, she can not control her child, and is constantly pushing him off on others. Her house is out of order on many levels and again she tries to tell others how to live their lives.
3) She manipulates people second only to the now dead Dale, she should mind her business.
4) She handled Shane poorly after Rick came back and this could have contributed in a large way to him breaking as a man.
5)Setting Rick and Shane against each other, and then the indecision about it and turning on Rick after he eliminated the problem. No matter the circumstances her husband was almost murdered and had to fight for his life to protect himself, his family, and the group and she turns on him. Loving both men does not make that right, it makes it worse in fact.

Sammich

26-Mar-2012, 07:59 PM

The burning of the barn was done for a final cutting of ties to the farm as it was a central figure to the story arc.

Herschel's zombified family members were kept in the barn keeping his group on the farm.
Zombie Sophia was kept in the barn unknown to Rick and kept them on the farm as they searched for her.
Glenn and Maggie viewed the barn as a haven away from the outside world.
Carl standing outside the barn demanding Rick shoot Randall was a mirror of what the group was becoming.
Shane's final cross over to cold blooded murderer took place in the barn as he was deciding what to do with Randall.

Fire has always been viewed as an element of cleansing and Rick igniting the barn was symbolic of absolving the past and starting anew as he and Carl emerged from the burning barn, like a phoenix from the ashes.

bassman

26-Mar-2012, 08:08 PM

Wow.....you found much more meaning in it than I did. Rick was just trying to draw the walkers away from the group, imo.

I like what you read into it, though....

AcesandEights

26-Mar-2012, 08:16 PM

I like what you read into it, though....

I agree. Keen insight, Sammich.

Wyldwraith

26-Mar-2012, 09:18 PM

Gave it a good deal of time to cool off,
That said, the "TWD Spell" is 95% broken for me. I enjoyed the absurdly unrealistic zombie kills from speeding vehicles in the dark for the gore, but I felt NOTHING for any of the characters until Andrea went down under the zombie she'd just shot and got left behind. Then her flight through the woods actually engaged me. I'm reserving judgment as to her "savior" however.

Like many others have said previously, I thought the visual narrative of watching the genesis of the zombie herd and its migration, but found it laughably unbelievable that a) That herd basically bee-lined it to the farm, b) Unlike the original contact with the "Highway Herd" there were NO front-runners that could've been taken as a warning by the survivors. Now, before you point at barn zombies or the pair Herschel and Rick were hauling out of the bog we have basic pedigrees indicative of those zombies being locals. c) In the dark, in broken wooded terrain dotted with creeks and bogs, and in the absence of active stimuli to focus the attention of the Walkers, it it **100%** UNBELIEVABLE that Daryl & Glenn, and Rick/Shane were trudging about those very woods in search of Randall and didn't run into ANY Walkers except Randall. ESPECIALLY when the body of the herd was 1) As compact as it was portrayed as being and 2) So close that in under a MINUTE after the shot Carl fired the Walkers were streaming en masse from the nearby woods close enough for Rick and Carl to see them as a wave of undead in that same under-a-minute time-frame. d) The herd busted through the fence in one place, yet streamed out in three different directions so thoroughly as to encompass the farm from three sides by random chance.

It was a nice twist that Rick ONCE AGAIN owes his life and that of his son to the busting open of the barn and the elimination of the barn-Walkers he and others disparaged Shane for.

Last thing: Rick's speech. From his own mouth we heard incontravertible evidence that even if Rick believed 100% that Shane truly had a last-minute change of heart and discovered he couldn't go through with killing his ex-best friend, Rick would STILL have killed Shane. "You all saw how he was. Constantly pushing me, challenging me, causing problems. I wanted it over. I just wanted it over." To say nothing of Rick's comments about his belief that Shane saw him as being "in the way" concerning Lori and Carl.

It isn't a question of whether Rick killed Shane in self-defense, or even if Rick was or wasn't justified in killing Shane. In his heart, Rick MURDERED SHANE when Shane obviously couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger. Worse, Rick realized that and used that sentiment to lull Shane into indecisiveness, thereby setting him up for the kill with all his talk about it not being too late, that Shane could still come back from this etc.

Rick killing Shane doesn't prove that Rick has what Shane had. Killing Shane, combined with the raw pettiness and hypocrisy of his totalitarian statements to the group aren't those of a man whose found the courage and resolve to make hard choices. They're the words of a judgmental hypocrite making it up as he goes along.

There's a line from the Chronicles of Riddick I think applies quite nicely to Rick now. "If he has fear, he has weakness. If he has weakness, he is unworthy of lordship." Rick is going the totalitarian route NOW because he knows his most recent and significant choice is morally indefensible, so he changes the rules from "We'll do things Dale's way to prove he was wrong about the group being broken" to "Anyone who stays will do things my way, this isn't a democracy." Hypocrisy.

It's not an evolution into a hard-edged survivor. It's simply a collapse of his moral code and fear leading him into using hypocrisy and totalitarianism as refuge from indefensible crimes. Shane pissed me off at times, and he certainly had piss-poor presentation of many good ideas...but I never felt the CONTEMPT for him that I felt for Rick in the season finale. I honestly don't know if I'll return to the series when Season 3 returns in the fall. Caring about the survivors is a necessary, VITAL lynchpin to effective drama and suspense in a zombie-apocalypse-themed narrative. I'm not into futility, so rooting for zombies that won't be allowed to massacre 90% of the group isn't a viable course. I go beyond no longer caring about any of the characters besides Andrea, into actively desiring the deaths of characters they'll never kill enough of off. That doesn't leave a workable basis for enjoying the show in my mind. At least for now. I may change my mind given time, but Rick's speech at the end of the finale was just awful. Instead of love-hate as I felt for the Shane character, that speech solidified my feelings for the Rick character as immovable hate-hate.

Just my .02

Knighty

26-Mar-2012, 10:14 PM

Obviously the series isn't for you, I and of course many others can see the faults and also it's strengths but it's never going to be for everyone.
The fact you can write so much about it and obviously have deep thoughts about the characters and situation does at least show the writers are obviously doing something right though.

bassman

26-Mar-2012, 10:27 PM

The fact you can write so much about it and obviously have deep thoughts about the characters and situation does at least show the writers are obviously doing something right though.

Post of the week, sir. :thumbsup:

I'll post more thoughts when I get home and have time to digest that novel up there...

Doc

27-Mar-2012, 12:43 AM

ESPECIALLY when the body of the herd was 1) As compact as it was portrayed as being and 2) So close that in under a MINUTE after the shot Carl fired the Walkers were streaming en masse from the nearby woods close enough for Rick and Carl to see them as a wave of undead in that same under-a-minute time-frame. d) The herd busted through the fence in one place, yet streamed out in three different directions so thoroughly as to encompass the farm from three sides by random chance.

I'm glad i wasn't the only one who found it this strange. I too was confounded how Rick and Carl got surrounded so fast by the walkers, and how it seemed they were coming out of multiple directions out of nowhere. :-/

Wyldwraith

27-Mar-2012, 02:43 AM

To retort,
The fact that I can and often do construct in-depth analysis of things I watch or read is indicative of nothing more than me being of an analytical mindset. However, I will concede that at times both the scriptwriters and the actors/actresses have done an absolutely superb job of evoking emotive reactions from many viewers, including myself.

The core problem with the series (IMO) is two-fold. One, for reasons certainly open to debate as well as interpretation, writers and to a lesser extent the cast fail to maintain continuity of characterization. Two, the writers are pushing circumstances and the results of character actions (including the Walkers) consistently beyond the line where suspension of disbelief can be maintained in an engaging way. I say MAINTAINED because, much of the time, the characters actions/reactions to their circumstances and external forces acting upon the group ARE believable and reasonable. Unfortunately, during story events meant to convey and evoke strong emotion and dramatic tension, the writers and again the cast to a lesser extent breach the envelope of suspension of disbelief in such a way as to de-engage some viewers (like myself) from what's happening onscreen.

Example: And this is a pretty minor if not trivial issue that nevertheless sucked me out of the story and into mentally reacting to the onscreen absurdity. During the Season 1 episode "Guts" when Rick and Glenn clamber over the fence while being pursued by Walkers once the rain ruined their "Shawn of the Dead ruse"...The first zombie to reach the fence grasps it and clambers over it with Spider-Man-like agility that outstripped the speed at which Glenn and Rick went up and over the fence by an order of magnitude.

One could point to the gunfire/ammo-related issues as well, but that's not so much a problem for me.

Changes in characterization of major characters are often incredibly abrupt, poorly supported by the plot, and very wishy-washy back-and-forth. Then there's the simply cringe-worthy dialog that sometimes pops up. Example: One moment Rick is authoritatively declaring his right to lead the group because "I killed my best friend for you people!" The next moment his dialog declares there was a major personal motive on Rick's part stemming from the things he stated about Shane. It's poor writing, and a) It can suck one out of story-immersion and b) It casts characters that become victims of this bad scriptwriting in a poor light for something they have no control over, yet they're the ones onscreen we see spouting this piss-poor dialog and characterization-related actions.

Last, as I and others have said before, it's absolutely CRITICAL in a Zombie-Apocalypse-themed work of fiction that the audience is able to connect with, relate to, and come to care about what happens to the characters. As the # of hate-inducing characters in the survivor group grows, it becomes ever harder to elicit that caring about the characters fate. Without that caring about the characters all you have is zombie FX and action-hero-cliche firefights.

Neil

27-Mar-2012, 08:05 AM

I'm glad i wasn't the only one who found it this strange. I too was confounded how Rick and Carl got surrounded so fast by the walkers, and how it seemed they were coming out of multiple directions out of nowhere. :-/

I can undersdtand how it happened, but it just wasn't put over very well in film. Another shot, displaying the farm from another angle, and another arm of the zombie group being drawn in by the sound of gunshots, would have helped.

AnxietyDilemma

27-Mar-2012, 08:25 AM

Thorn

27-Mar-2012, 08:53 AM

I can undersdtand how it happened, but it just wasn't put over very well in film. Another shot, displaying the farm from another angle, and another arm of the zombie group being drawn in by the sound of gunshots, would have helped.

This makes the most sense to me, more shots establishing herds converging on one location as had to have happened would have been nice, I really think the show would have benefited from another hour ;)

darth los

27-Mar-2012, 10:44 AM

I'm glad i wasn't the only one who found it this strange. I too was confounded how Rick and Carl got surrounded so fast by the walkers, and how it seemed they were coming out of multiple directions out of nowhere. :-/

But we're not supposed to question things like that remember? The dead are returning to life so little details like that don't matter anymore.

:cool:

Thorn

27-Mar-2012, 11:54 AM

But we're not supposed to question things like that remember? The dead are returning to life so little details like that don't matter anymore.

:cool:

Meh. It all matters, just matters to some more than others, we all have things that annoy us or our little pet peeves. Differences in opinion are to be expected, and in fact celebrated. If we all thought alike talking would be pretty boring.

AcesandEights

27-Mar-2012, 01:38 PM

I would've rather they not addressed it at all, regarding how the walkers made their way to the farm. Sometimes it's best if we're left in the dark, and with the way that they tried to tie everything together, it seemed far fetched and too storybook.

I completely agree, too much information all too often feeds nitpicking, second guessing and if/then Olympics.

Moon Knight

27-Mar-2012, 01:49 PM

But what about Hershal's blazer?!?!

Thorn

27-Mar-2012, 05:44 PM

But what about Hershal's blazer?!?!

He found it in a car, or on the road, or in the vehicle they escaped in and put it on because it was friggin' cold.

/thread

bassman

27-Mar-2012, 07:04 PM

I'm still wondering how Fat Tony pissed on the floor. We never saw him drink anything. You can't fire without the audience seeing you reload!

:p

Sammich

27-Mar-2012, 08:53 PM

I would've rather they not addressed it at all, regarding how the walkers made their way to the farm. Sometimes it's best if we're left in the dark, and with the way that they tried to tie everything together, it seemed far fetched and too storybook.

My interpretation is that the helicopter flying overhead in the beginning of the series and shown again in the last episode is was what initially caused zombies that saw it to start moving in the direction of the farm. Remember scene when they were stuck on the highway and hid to let that that big group of zombies walk by? One of the bigger herds that was attracted by the helicopter fly over was probably led to the farm by all of the cattle, noise and movement during the previous days.

The group looks like it is travelling in the same direction as the herd migrations and they could eventually encounter a zombie Woodstock.

rgc2005

27-Mar-2012, 10:19 PM

One thing the show is really not getting across is the idea that the survivors no longer live in a mechanized world and noise is bad. Sometimes I think producers should not attempt to explain an event unless they can really pull it off properly. Since they did zero patrols or intelligence gathering and walkers were obviously about once they lost Dale the worst look out in the history of look outs the entire farm should have been over ran before Lori missed Carl.

Hershel and his family stayed safe because of the swamp and Maggie rode a horse to town. Once they started driving around and shooting guns all over the place the zombies slowly but surely zeroed in on the farm like a viral attack. No way in any universe would one helicopter flying over Atlanta trigger a swarm at least a gas tank's drive away. But we did see that zombies were attracted to the farm and Otis had to go out and round them up before they became and issue. Look at the barn shooting spree 12-15 walkers during the peak period of swamp protection.

That said, I have read some stories in the fiction section regarding the geometric progression of a herd movement and the supposedly millions strong zombie herds moving across the continent. That is of course a mega-macro event we would never see on the show.

Arco

01-Apr-2012, 12:31 PM

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. If everyone is already infected, why do they die from being bitten?

MinionZombie

01-Apr-2012, 05:20 PM

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. If everyone is already infected, why do they die from being bitten?

I'm not sure if that has been specifically addressed by Mazzara or Kirkman, but my personal opinion would be it speeds up the infection, as well as the blood loss from bites.

darth los

01-Apr-2012, 08:19 PM

I'm still wondering how Fat Tony pissed on the floor. We never saw him drink anything. You can't fire without the audience seeing you reload!

:p

Lol I thought you were going to say something along the lines of how did he find his penis!

:cool:

Andy

01-Apr-2012, 08:35 PM

I'm not sure if that has been specifically addressed by Mazzara or Kirkman, but my personal opinion would be it speeds up the infection, as well as the blood loss from bites.

I always figured it was a much more concentrated dose of whatever bacteria/virus/infection it is.. Rick says that we are all carriers but remember morgan describes the fever after you been bit in the first season..

MinionZombie

02-Apr-2012, 09:50 AM

I always figured it was a much more concentrated dose of whatever bacteria/virus/infection it is.. Rick says that we are all carriers but remember morgan describes the fever after you been bit in the first season..

Indeed - a straight, hard dose of the completely mutated bad stuff directly into your bloodstream and direct from the source (i.e. a walker), combined with the blood loss and shock, and boom - walker time.

Trin

20-May-2012, 02:14 AM

It pains me to say this fellas, but I finished the season 2 finale, started reading the first page of this thread... and stopped.... the spoilers coming out of the comic book fans are just killing me.

I'm afraid I'm going into a self-imposed media blackout until after the series gets beyond where the comics fans can ruin it for me. :)

rongravy

20-May-2012, 03:39 PM

I'm afraid I'm going into a self-imposed media blackout until after the series gets beyond where the comics fans can ruin it for me. :)
I haven't read the comics, but I have read up on where they're headed in them. I kind of like seeing how/where they veer off on the show.
I don't mind the spoilers, but then again, at XMAS I used to find out what I was getting a few months beforehand by sneeking a peek.
I'm admittedly not a very patient person.

MinionZombie

20-May-2012, 06:23 PM

Thorn

21-May-2012, 01:01 PM

You'll be waiting a while then, if you're going to avoid the forum discussion until the show catches up with the comics (which will never happen). Next month the sixteenth volume of the trade paperbacks is released, and the first two seasons cover the first two trade paperbacks. From what I've read it could be suggested that the next two seasons will cover volumes 3 through 8, but who knows?

I've been reading the trade paperbacks (started in advance of the show beginning in 2010), and have read volumes one-through-fifteen, and I've found it really cool to have these two tellings of the same content running side-by-side. I know where certain things are heading, but it's more of a vague guide, as the path they take to get there is sometimes very different. It's kind of like having two universes running parallel, but telling the story in different ways with different events happening at different times. Indeed, numerous big moments of season two never happened in the books, or in that way at least.

I'd definitely recommend reading the trade paperbacks. The show still manages to shock and surprise me frequently and consistently, plus it's even more enjoyable to see how they're working with, and apart from, the source material. :)

This.

I love the comics, I am biased of course having worked in the industry as a colorist and having owned a comic book store.. .that said they are amazing. I also can second the fact that they in no way ruin the show for me as the show really does exist in an alternate universe were there are so many changes I have plenty of shock and surprise moments.

In face I can appreciate how they make it all work while paying proper homage to the source material while claiming the universe and direction as it's own in the tv show.

Not enough credit is given there I think.