Titanic anniversary

[Neil]

In about 4hrs time (2:40 GMT 15th April) it will be 100yrs since the Titanic hit that iceberg... About 160 minutes later the ship would be on its way down to its final resting place about 2.5 miles under sea, taking goodness knows how many poor souls with it.

As a child I grew up fascinated by it, and even recall those first images in the 1980 when they discovered and film the wreck.

The tragedy still fascinates me. Such a lot of "bad pieces of luck" leading to a horrible outcome. I think I also wonder what would I have done if I had been there? Would I have lived or died? Would I have been a coward or a hero? What would I have done during that final hour...


Anyway, I guess in a way, this is my little way of paying homage to the anniversary, and the poor victims who just happened to be on a ship which didn't happen to be on a path just 50 meters to the left or right, and whose captain (on his final voyage before retirement) ignored iceburg warnings, and whose captain ordered the ship to travel at a higher speed unnecessarily to break a record, and whose crows nest didn't have binoculars, and whose engines were put in reverse, which was near the California whose radio (Marconi) room was unmanned and whose captain decided to ignore the flares, and which didn't have enough lifeboats, and whose under-filled lifeboats still had space for nearly 500 hundred more people who instead drowned or froze to death.

[bassman]

I've been watching documentaries on the disaster over the past week. The Discovery and History Networks have been running them just about every night. Including an all new one with some of the experts, historians, and James Cameron in which they give the most accurate and up-to-date depictions on what happened that night and how the ship and it's remains ended at it's final resting place 2.5 miles beneath the surface. Cameron even discussing what he got wrong with his film, how more lives could have been saved, and they made an all-new CG rendering on how it broke apart and landed at the bottom. I highly recommend it if they air it on your side of the pond.

Like you, I've always been fascinated by the Titanic. Not as much as some, but it's always held my attention. My wife actually got aggrevated with me watching those documentaries every night. :lol:

[Knighty]

Same I've always been fascinated by the Titanic and can even point out possible errors in that post Neil ;)

Bad luck, unusual weather conditions and freak occurrences mean the death of so many people and the stories of so many heroes and lost souls.

Been watching the multitude of documentaries recently ( the Cameron one in particular was very good and he almost had a slight nudge at Lucas when commenting on wether he should correct parts of the film) and I'm glad to hear a pact is going on about the retrieval of items from the Titanic resting site, as to me it's a graveyard and shouldn't be disturbed , let alone looted for profit. One doc described how when the wreck was first discovered the crows nest was intact despite the collapse of the mast, but at some point a mini sub had caught it and destroyed it by accident.

[Rumsfeld]

I heard this many years ago but weren't they planning on creating a Titanic 2?

[AcesandEights]

I heard this many years ago but weren't they planning on creating a Titanic 2?

They did:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Titanic2dvdcover.jpg/220px-Titanic2dvdcover.jpg

A quality film, to be sure :D

[MinionZombie]

I heard t'other day that there has been a cruise on the go these last few days that was taking the same route as the Titanic - a sort of anniversary cruise with members of the families and interested parties etc - and the goal was to be in the same position where the Titanic ended up sinking. A creepy idea, that's for sure! :eek:

I've recorded the Cameron documentary that folks have spoken of - it was on t'other week - I'll get around to it sometime soon hopefully.

Also been watching the ITV dramatisation from Julian Fellowes (the Downtown Abbey guy). It can't compete with James Cameron's flick in terms of scale, so it's more focussed on characters, and while it's not great, it's not crap either - it's pretty decent - but it's a very familiar story, which makes it really hard to tell it in a new and fresh way. Plus I think, as evidenced by the drop in viewing figures (from 7m to 3m), most people would just stick with the 1997 movie, and any number of documentaries.

[JDFP]

As far as I'm concerned the ULTIMATE Titanic film will always be the classic 1958 film: "A Night to Remember". It's just an absolutely fantastic film.

Certainly don't go into this film expecting a big-budget CGI special effects driven film (we already have one of those, ahem), but rather it's a movie about characters and giving true honor to the tragedy of the characters in telling the story. The film is VERY accurate in the storytelling and doesn't pull any punches. And considering it was made in 1958 the real model special effects used actually do hold up really well even for today. The film from start to finish is pure class and while younger people today may not be able to sit through it (it's mostly talking - a thing called character development they used to do in films pre-21st century) I'd highly recommend it to people who do enjoy great films. It's an absolute classic and still ranks - to me at least - as the single best film made about the Titanic.

http://static-l3.blogcritics.org/12/04/10/179051/a-night-to-remember.jpg?t=20120410105414

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Image%20Entertainment/A%20Night%20to%20Remember/_derived_jpg_q90_410x410_m0/Night%20to%20Remember%20image%202.jpg?partner=allm ovie_soap

http://roomoverthegarage.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/a-night-to-remember-criterion.jpg

j.p.

[Knighty]

Very true, A Night To Remember is still an amazing film, and on BBC2 in 40 mins.
Apparently some of the shots used are from the massive budget Nazi film that was shot about the Titanic, saw a great documentary about that a few days ago.

[Neil]

As far as I'm concerned the ULTIMATE Titanic film will always be the classic 1958 film: "A Night to Remember". It's just an absolutely fantastic film.

Certainly don't go into this film expecting a big-budget CGI special effects driven film (we already have one of those, ahem), but rather it's a movie about characters and giving true honor to the tragedy of the characters in telling the story. The film is VERY accurate in the storytelling and doesn't pull any punches. And considering it was made in 1958 the real model special effects used actually do hold up really well even for today. The film from start to finish is pure class and while younger people today may not be able to sit through it (it's mostly talking - a thing called character development they used to do in films pre-21st century) I'd highly recommend it to people who do enjoy great films. It's an absolute classic and still ranks - to me at least - as the single best film made about the Titanic.

j.p.

One of my neighbours had a bit part in it! Yes, probably my favourite "pure" Titanic film! I think the b&w helps it!

-- -------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------


Apparently some of the shots used are from the massive budget Nazi film that was shot about the Titanic, saw a great documentary about that a few days ago.
Really? I'd not even heard of the Nazi version (where the evil Jew(s) were responsible for the ship sinking) until earlier this week...

[acealive1]

i was actually listening to the radio on the freeway with my girl when i heard this exactly 100 years later to the very second. scary to think it's been 100 years

[Neil]

I'm still fascinated that no bones have been found. Amazing to think the sea (and/or its occupants) can break them down over just 80-100 years...

[shootemindehead]

It's 2.5 miles down, so the pressure on organic material is incredible. It wouldn't take long to break down.

Have to say I'm sick of the Titanic at this stage, but one thing that did strike me were some of pictures that Ballard took when he found the wreck in the 80's. Some were of peoples shoes and clothing resting on the sea bed. One was of a pair of woman's shoes and beside them were a small pair of shoes for a child. They weren't too far from the hull, as was a lot of personal effects, indicating that as the people died they sank slowly to the bottom in very calm waters. It would have taken the bodies over 45 minutes to reach the sea bed.

[Neil]

I've recorded the Cameron documentary that folks have spoken of - it was on t'other week - I'll get around to it sometime soon hopefully.

I'm about half way through it. So far so good!

-- -------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------


It would have taken the bodies over 45 minutes to reach the sea bed.Surely to have been close to the hull - because there would be currents surely - those bodies would have had to have been in the down draft of the ship? If so they would have gone down a lot quicker?

The ship would have only have taken a few minutes, assuming a speed of 10-30mph.


My morbib curiousity always wonders who survived the longest on the ship. There were obviously people inside when it went down - families who decided to return to their rooms, crew even all the way down in the boiler rooms etc. So almost certainly when the ship went down, some people were still inside, in the dark, in rising water. I suspect they could have survived for a good few dozen seconds in the dark, fighting to keep their heads in air bubbles, while the pressure increased... Until the pressure killed them. Horrible!

Can't understand why families were reported as returning to their cabins... Can't imagine doing that!

[MinionZombie]

I suppose it's easy to say 'that's madness' now with 20/20 hindsight and with the history of Titanic itself, but at the time there was a lot of arrogance and ignorance. Arrogance that the ship wouldn't sink, and ignorance of the sheer scale of the disaster, combined with knowledge that hadn't yet been gained - knowledge and experience that only came about as a result of Titanic's sinking.

It's interesting that today though, we need to find a new way of lowering life boats, as a handful of ship wrecks have shown - most notably the Costa Concordia - if the boat rolls onto its side, there's not an awful lot you can do with any of the lifeboats. :eek:

What's even more astonishing though is that there are a whole community of morons - who are allowed to breed - who didn't know that Titanic was real. They only thought it was a movie. I kid you not ... I weep for the gene pool of mankind.

[Neil]

there are a whole community of morons - who are allowed to breed - who didn't know that Titanic was real. They only thought it was a movie. I kid you not ... I weep for the gene pool of mankind.
No! Tell me this was just Jade Goodie or some other idiotic idiot!? Please don't tell me it's common place?!

[MinionZombie]

No! Tell me this was just Jade Goodie or some other idiotic idiot!? Please don't tell me it's common place?!

http://smodcast.com/babbleonpics/apr14/5.jpg

Heard about it on the Hollywood Babble-On podcast this week ... absolutely stunning. I dearly hope these people never breed. :stunned:

[Neil]

heard about it on the hollywood babble-on podcast this week ... Absolutely stunning. I dearly hope these people never breed. :stunned:
lol!!

[shootemindehead]

Surely to have been close to the hull - because there would be currents surely - those bodies would have had to have been in the down draft of the ship? If so they would have gone down a lot quicker?

The ship would have only have taken a few minutes, assuming a speed of 10-30mph.


My morbib curiousity always wonders who survived the longest on the ship. There were obviously people inside when it went down - families who decided to return to their rooms, crew even all the way down in the boiler rooms etc. So almost certainly when the ship went down, some people were still inside, in the dark, in rising water. I suspect they could have survived for a good few dozen seconds in the dark, fighting to keep their heads in air bubbles, while the pressure increased... Until the pressure killed them. Horrible!

Can't understand why families were reported as returning to their cabins... Can't imagine doing that!

I believe the water was very calm on the night, so much that the debris from the wreck is spread over a very small area. Of course people caught in the downdraught of the ship would have been dragged quicker, at the beginning anyway. But plenty of the bodies of people who jumped in without lifejackets and died of hyperthermia drifted down afterwards over a longer period of time. The photos of Ballard's first dive are an eerie sight. One can only imagine what a sight that would have been, as bodies that froze eventually sank slowly to the sea bed. Bloody creepy.

There were hundreds of people left in both the bow and the stern segments when it went down. But, I'd say that they were all dead by the time the bow went under the water. Air would have been pushed out of the ship by the water coming in, so a lot of people would have suffocated too without drowning. What would have been terrifying would have been to be caught in the stern at a crazy angle, trying to get out. Though, if Titanic (1997) is to be believed, a lot would have been killed when the stern crashed back into the sea after her back broke.

On the sea bed, the stern is completely collapsed, while the bow section is remarkable intact.

-- -------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------


I suppose it's easy to say 'that's madness' now with 20/20 hindsight and with the history of Titanic itself, but at the time there was a lot of arrogance and ignorance. Arrogance that the ship wouldn't sink, and ignorance of the sheer scale of the disaster, combined with knowledge that hadn't yet been gained - knowledge and experience that only came about as a result of Titanic's sinking.

As far as I know, there were quite a few people who were very sceptical of White Star Line's "unsinkable" nonsense. I remember reading that some rival engineers were raising eyebrows at the "riveted only" hull. No reinforced wielding at the seams. In other words, the hull plates were bolted together with white hot riviets which cooled, contracted and formed a "watertight" seal. For such a large ship, that was taking a very large risk. In addition, the bulkeads didn't reach the upper decks, which meant that water would overflow into each successive compartment if flooding was severe enough. This alone went against the standards of the day


What's even more astonishing though is that there are a whole community of morons - who are allowed to breed - who didn't know that Titanic was real. They only thought it was a movie. I kid you not ... I weep for the gene pool of mankind.

GTFOOH

[Neil]

On the sea bed, the stern is completely collapsed, while the bow section is remarkable intact.

In Cameron's recent documentary they go into a lot of detail about this... They think a lot of damage was down by the hydro-dynamic downwash of its wake impacting on it when it came to sudden stop on the sea floor.

It's also interesting in some documentaries that suggest the stern finally sank so gently people simply swam off of it without their hair even getting wet!?

[acealive1]

I'm still fascinated that no bones have been found. Amazing to think the sea (and/or its occupants) can break them down over just 80-100 years...

they found bones before and very recently. they said there may even be intact bodies in the inside compartments we cant see

-- -------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------


No! Tell me this was just Jade Goodie or some other idiotic idiot!? Please don't tell me it's common place?!


ah cmon, let her rest.

[Neil]

they said there may even be intact bodies in the inside compartments we cant see
No way! They'd be long gone surely! Surely bacteria etc would have broken them down in the same way as has occurred outside the ship?

You're actually suggesting, in some of the cabins, or buried in the engine rooms, there are somehow preserved bodies?!

[bassman]

Yeah....intact bodies seems a bit far fetched...


I saw a documentary last night called "Saving the Titanic". Robert Bullard, the man that originally found the ship in '85, is very concerned with how the ship is being treated and showed off some video/photos of how archeologists and tourists are damaging it more and more with each visit. Landing their submersibles on the hull, grave robbing artifacts, entering the ship and destroying the interiors, etc.

It was an interesting to see how human presence has started destroying the ship again, but I get the feeling Bullard was mostly pointing his finger at James Cameron. :lol:

[Neil]

Yeah....intact bodies seems a bit far fetched...


I saw a documentary last night called "Saving the Titanic". Robert Bullard, the man that originally found the ship in '85, is very concerned with how the ship is being treated and showed off some video/photos of how archeologists and tourists are damaging it more and more with each visit. Landing their submersibles on the hull, grave robbing artifacts, entering the ship and destroying the interiors, etc.

It was an interesting to see how human presence has started destroying the ship again, but I get the feeling Bullard was mostly pointing his finger at James Cameron. :lol:

Well, the subs landing on it are a minimal weight surely? Which leaves unmanned craft going inside and knocking/manipulating? What sort of damage is that doing?

[bassman]

Well, the subs landing on it are a minimal weight surely? Which leaves unmanned craft going inside and knocking/manipulating? What sort of damage is that doing?

They showed the damage that the subs have caused and it's very obvious even to the average person. While all the rust formations are usually a darker color, you can plainly see the newer brown look of where they've been landing on the ship. You can even see holes in some places where they've landed.

Without knowledge of the structure of the ship, I would be worried about landing a sub on it, anyway. Cameron actually addresses it on the commentary for the film and says he doesn't think it does any damage, but the "Saving Titanic" documentary makes me think otherwise...

[Neil]

They showed the damage that the subs have caused and it's very obvious even to the average person. While all the rust formations are usually a darker color, you can plainly see the newer brown look of where they've been landing on the ship. You can even see holes in some places where they've landed.

Without knowledge of the structure of the ship, I would be worried about landing a sub on it, anyway. Cameron actually addresses it on the commentary for the film and says he doesn't think it does any damage, but the "Saving Titanic" documentary makes me think otherwise...

Hmmmm... Can't see how any major damaged is really bing done by the subs? I'll have to try and see the documentary I guess!

-- -------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------


Yeah....intact bodies seems a bit far fetched...
Just read earlier there are some scientists who are suggesting within Titanic there may be preserved bodies!

Why does my morbid curiosity want to investigate this!

[AcesandEights]

It was an interesting to see how human presence has started destroying the ship again, but I get the feeling Bullard was mostly pointing his finger at James Cameron. :lol:
As satisfying as that thought may be in some respects (I can't be the only one who thinks Cameron comes off as a bit of a stiff-necked twat), I don't think it matters much in the long run. A lot of these efforts are preserving history by studying and reclaiming artifacts that will last a lot longer than that rusting out hulk which is slowly but steadily moving towards collapsing under its own weight down there in that abyss.

[shootemindehead]

Hmmmm... Can't see how any major damaged is really bing done by the subs? I'll have to try and see the documentary I guess!

Ballard is suggesting that subs (which are tons in weight) landing on the ships hull are disturbing the sensitive metal and causing damage. You can actually see clearly what he's talking about too. There's large orange patches where subs have touched down on the deck of the forward structure.

I think what he means by damaging, is that the disturbance is quickening up the "rotting" process of the metal.

[Neil]

Ballard is suggesting that subs (which are tons in weight) landing on the ships hull are disturbing the sensitive metal and causing damage. You can actually see clearly what he's talking about too. There's large orange patches where subs have touched down on the deck of the forward structure.

I think what he means by damaging, is that the disturbance is quickening up the "rotting" process of the metal.

Surely they're almost weightless in effect? ie: Only weighing a fraction of their surface weight?

[shootemindehead]

But subject to 1000's of PSI from the weight of the sea above, I would imagine.

I think it's more the movement and friction of the vehicles that's causing the disturbance.

[Neil]

I think it's more the movement and friction of the vehicles that's causing the disturbance.I can understand that!

[acealive1]

Hmmmm... Can't see how any major damaged is really bing done by the subs? I'll have to try and see the documentary I guess!

-- -------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------


Just read earlier there are some scientists who are suggesting within Titanic there may be preserved bodies!

Why does my morbid curiosity want to investigate this!


lol told ya LOL

[Knighty]

Also as I said earlier the subs have already destroyed the crows nest which was intact when it was originally discovered, I believe from a doc a few years ago that originally you couldn't get into the radio room but since subs landed on top of it, it has since collapsed in on it's self. Amazing to look inside but effectively a desecration of a grave.

Just got back from seeing the film in 3D and IMAX and I had forgotten just how cheesy the first half is, almost embarrassingly so. Obviously makes up for it in the second and the fact the effects (both GGI and practical) are still top notch and awe inspiring, the scene of the ship splitting in half on an Imax screen was an amazing site.

Other than some of the twee annoyance of the film I find some of the choices Cameron chose very odd. Almost all the deleted scenes are historical interest ( the baker, owners of Macy's , dogs running free, the Californian being just 10 miles away, explanation of the gym and many more) why cut these out considering he is such a Titanic buff ?. I read in an interview long ago that he did it to keep the focus and the main tragedy be Jack and Rose which in my opinion is the least interesting thing.
Some of the liberties he takes with the crew are a bit far as well, most of the officers and workers come accross as villains or hate figures. Odd that he chose for the band to be older despite the fact the eldest was in fact just 33, same with the elevator bell boys who were all 16-17 and all died.

I think the story of the Titanic is more than strong enough to support it's self without the need for a love story, which is why I think A Night To Remember is still the best as it encompasses many stories.

[Neil]

This has to be the best documentary IMHO:-
ESuceYnFQgQ
XCkD_N8ABJE

[MinionZombie]

This reminds me - I watched that James Cameron doc that was on National Geographic a couple of weeks back - fascinating stuff - the new computer model, and how they arrived at it, was intriguing stuff to say the least.

[Neil]

This reminds me - I watched that James Cameron doc that was on National Geographic a couple of weeks back - fascinating stuff - the new computer model, and how they arrived at it, was intriguing stuff to say the least.

The fact they pointed out it didn't list all the way over as is common was interesting. Pure luck, or were the engineers in the bottom of the ship not only keeping the boilers running, and actively pumping the water in the ballast tanks around to keep the ship as upright as long as they could, to help others in the face of death? They all died, so we'll never know!

[MinionZombie]

The fact they pointed out it didn't list all the way over as is common was interesting. Pure luck, or were the engineers in the bottom of the ship not only keeping the boilers running, and actively pumping the water in the ballast tanks around to keep the ship as upright as long as they could, to help others in the face of death? They all died, so we'll never know!

One of the most chilling theories that was presented to the viewer in the doc. It's a solid theory, and it makes the actions of the engineers even more astonishing and heroic. All these ship wrecks recently and they all tipped over, and yet Titanic, this vast creation, sank with a mere 9 degrees estimated listing. It was also interesting to see the difference between JC's flick and the 2012 computer model in terms of how the ship sank. It was also fascinating to see the theories come together using the evidence of the debris field, and comparing it to figuring out a plane crash.

Absolutely fascinating stuff - which reminds me, have you seen "Ghosts of the Abyss" the 2001 documentary that JC did about diving to Titanic? I've got it on DVD and it's very much worth seeing if you're into the story of Titanic and seeing what it's like now deep under the ocean. It's even got it's own suspense at one point relating to James and Elwood, the two little robots they send into the wreck. Haunting and fascinating all-in-one.

[bassman]

Absolutely fascinating stuff - which reminds me, have you seen "Ghosts of the Abyss" the 2001 documentary that JC did about diving to Titanic? I've got it on DVD and it's very much worth seeing if you're into the story of Titanic and seeing what it's like now deep under the ocean. It's even got it's own suspense at one point relating to James and Elwood, the two little robots they send into the wreck. Haunting and fascinating all-in-one.

Indeed. Fantastic documentary....

FAVEEaV2QDE

[Neil]

Still have to say for me that pair of A&E documentaries (above) are the best at giving an overall emotional impression along with a good solid factual account.

[bassman]

Still have to say for me that pair of A&E documentaries (above) are the best at giving an overall emotional impression along with a good solid factual account.

I agree that the documentary you posted is fantastic, but I think Cameron's Ghosts of the Abyss probably gives the most in-depth look at the ship as it sits on the bottom of the ocean. Two seperate beasts, really. The initial sinking story on one and the aftermath as it stands today on the other.

[Neil]

I agree that the documentary you posted is fantastic, but I think Cameron's Ghosts of the Abyss probably gives the most in-depth look at the ship as it sits on the bottom of the ocean. Two seperate beasts, really. The initial sinking story on one and the aftermath as it stands today on the other.

Definately... And the two bots were amazing!