Gory horrible history...

[Neil]

OK, what historical stories are so horrid and despicable they sound like fiction!

For me, here's a couple:-
Sawney Bean - http://www.sawneybean.com/horrors2/bean.htm
Jack the Ripper - http://www.jack-the-ripper.org/victims-of-jack-the-ripper.htm
Elizabeth Bathroy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_B%C3%A1thory

[Mike70]

H. H. Holmes, also known as "america's first serial killer" was a real life monster. totally repulsive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Holmes

some of the things that Edmund Kemper did utterly boggle the mind. severing your own mother's head then using it to perform fellatio on yourself. that's beyond disgusting to the point where words fail. this is also a person (if that term applies) who killed his own grandmother just to see what it would feel like to kill someone. I usually do not agree with trying minors as adults but if this dude had been tried as an adult after murdering his own grandparents instead of going to a mental hospital for a few years, his later victims and their families would never have gone through what they did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper

then there is Gilles de Rais, a man who went from real life hero and companion in arms to Joan of Arc to being convicted of sodomizing and murdering at least 40 young boys. another real life monster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

yet another animal whose actions boggle the mind is Andrei Chikatilo, one of the worst serial killers in history. he murdered at least 52 people in 12 years, many of them children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo

[AcesandEights]

H. H. Holmes, also known as "america's first serial killer" was a real life monster. totally repulsive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Holmes

National Geographic just aired a huge special about him based primarily on The Devil in the White City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_in_the_White_City) book yesterday. Pretty well done, too.

What about Josef Fritzl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case)? He kept his family locked away from the world, the children for what was almost the whole of their lives. It's not body count and blood heavy, but still horrible and almost unbelievable.

[Neil]

H.H.Holmes! Yes! Astounding story! And how he ever got that 'hotel' made is amazing!

As for Josef Fritz, and the fact he was raping his own kids year after year after years...

[Mike70]

National Geographic just aired a huge special about him based primarily on The Devil in the White City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_in_the_White_City) book yesterday. Pretty well done, too.


i saw that. it was well done and disturbing as hell. that's why i mentioned H. H. Holmes.

[Neil]

then there is Gilles de Rais, a man who went from real life hero and companion in arms to Joan of Arc to being convicted of sodomizing and murdering at least 40 young boys. another real life monster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

Eeeek! That's horrid! Reminds me a little of Pedro Alonso Lopez & Luis Alfredo Garavito, reputed to have killed hundreds of children each!
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/pedro_lopez/6.html
http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g/garavito.htm

What I find most horrific about some of these individuals is that when scared/abused, they'd comfort the children, only to then torture/kill them, taking glee in even further suffering of the poor child!

[shootemindehead]

Albert Fish.

Nutjob.

[Mike70]

Eeeek! That's horrid! Reminds me a little of Pedro Alonso Lopez & Luis Alfredo Garavito, reputed to have killed hundreds of children each!
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/pedro_lopez/6.html
http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g/garavito.htm

What I find most horrific about some of these individuals is that when scared/abused, they'd comfort the children, only to then torture/kill them, taking glee in even further suffering of the poor child!

those two make me physically ill. they are living proof that there are things among us that look like people but are not.

a note about Gilles de Rais: if you have seen the movie "the messenger", he is played by Vincent Cassel. Imagine having one of your national heroes exposed not only as a pedophile but also as a monstrous serial killer.

[AcesandEights]

H.H.Holmes! Yes! Astounding story! And how he ever got that 'hotel' made is amazing!

It's interesting how some words can become a bit overused or a caricature of what they used to mean, but I think--in the case of H.H. Holmes--diabolical really does fit the bill.

-- -------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------




a note about Gilles de Rais: if you have seen the movie "the messenger", he is played by Vincent Cassel. Imagine having one of your national heroes exposed not only as a pedophile but also as a monstrous serial killer.

Excellent point! It's funny, I actually included de Rais in a paper I once wrote (about 20 years ago!), and had completely forgotten the era in which he lived. I kept thinking it was a later time period!

[Mike70]

I
Excellent point! It's funny, I actually included de Rais in a paper I once wrote (about 20 years ago!), and had completely forgotten the era in which he lived. I kept thinking it was a later time period!

from Marshal of France to the end of a rope. I've read a number of things about de Rais. Even though he fought bravely and was instrumental in winning the hundred years war, there were what we would recognize as "warning signs" in his behavior for years but being from highest levels of the nobility, no one ever connected the dots until he had engaged in some really unbelievable behavior. I put the number of victims at 40 because their remains were found. the actual number is most likely much, much higher - perhaps in the hundreds.

[SymphonicX]

I find the actions of one gruesome individual to be scary and terrifying, but nothing as terrifying as the actions of torture that governments, kingdoms and religions have not only been complicit in, but completely active too.

Medieval torture for heresy was horrendous - people were boiled alive and their skin slowly stripped off with sharp knives...starving rats ate through the intestines of those trapped underneath it's bottomless cage...people being forced "fed" liquid until their stomach explodes...two words "The Rack", not to mention the punishments like the stocks, Iron Maidens, and various really uncomfortable ways of being maimed or killed.

The fact that these things weren't the exception, like with serial killers, but the RULE...I find that absolutely terrifying.

[Neil]

I find the actions of one gruesome individual to be scary and terrifying, but nothing as terrifying as the actions of torture that governments, kingdoms and religions have not only been complicit in, but completely active too.

Medieval torture for heresy was horrendous - people were boiled alive and their skin slowly stripped off with sharp knives...starving rats ate through the intestines of those trapped underneath it's bottomless cage...people being forced "fed" liquid until their stomach explodes...two words "The Rack", not to mention the punishments like the stocks, Iron Maidens, and various really uncomfortable ways of being maimed or killed.

The fact that these things weren't the exception, like with serial killers, but the RULE...I find that absolutely terrifying.
I was thinking the same myself.

It's like being hung-drawn-and-quartered where they often kept the victim alive far far longer than in anyway necessary!

The sheer lengths they went to, to make people suffer rediculous amount of pain indeed was astounding!

[shootemindehead]

Visited a torture museum on the island of Ischia, off the coast of Italy and the amount of torture equipment that focused on the genitals would make your flippin eyes water. Gruesome stuff indeed.

[Neil]

Brazen Bull

fBN_3YJKZrY

[Mike70]

I find the actions of one gruesome individual to be scary and terrifying, but nothing as terrifying as the actions of torture that governments, kingdoms and religions have not only been complicit in, but completely active too.

Medieval torture for heresy was horrendous - people were boiled alive and their skin slowly stripped off with sharp knives...starving rats ate through the intestines of those trapped underneath it's bottomless cage...people being forced "fed" liquid until their stomach explodes...two words "The Rack", not to mention the punishments like the stocks, Iron Maidens, and various really uncomfortable ways of being maimed or killed.

The fact that these things weren't the exception, like with serial killers, but the RULE...I find that absolutely terrifying.


yeah. that shit is terrifying to think about but thankfully our part of the world has outgrown that sort of nonsense. can you imagine living in a country where stoning still takes place? or trials by putting your hand in boiling liquid to see who is guilty or innocent still take place? that's what i started thinking about after reading your post: that there are some places, here in 2012, where things like that still routinely take place.


though there is something intrinsically horrifying in individual actions because they lack that group/mob mentality that allows what you are talking about to be possible or even, in some cases, to be the law. i sure none of the people who lived next to folks like john gacy, jeffrey dahmer or most of the monsters that have been named in this thread had a clue as to what was going on in the house next to them or what that individual was up to when he left for a late night drive. the idea that a friendly stranger can suddenly turn into a murderous psychopath when he has his intended victim in a place where he can engage in torture, murder, etc. strikes a deep psychological chord in us.

[Sammich]

David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy
Leonard Lake and Charles Ng
Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka
Gary Heidnik
Issei Sagawa
Andrei Chikatilo
Anatoly Onoprienko

I personally knew a guy who murdered 2 people. Apprently over a period of 2 years he had planned the killings out and never showed a hint to anyone of what he was going to do.

[Neil]

I think the winner for outlandish horror, that's real, must be between Sawney Bean or HH Holmes?

[Mike70]

I think the winner for outlandish horror, that's real, must be between Sawney Bean or HH Holmes?

with jack the ripper getting honorable mention.

if i had to cast a vote, i'd probably go with H. H. Holmes. as Aces said in a post above the word "diabolical" is a perfect fit for Holmes' actions. has anyone ever put more thought, work or money into killing people in such horrific and sinister ways? probably not.

no one has mentioned (at least i think they haven't) the Bender family that were murdering people in Kansas on their way west. spooky thing about the Benders is that they completely disappeared without a trace and could've easily moved around and continued their murderous family activities. the american old west was a perfect place to melt away into and build a new identity. whose to say they didn't head south into mexico or even south america. though the last definitive evidence of the Benders suggested that they were actually heading east. the huge eastern cities would also have been perfect places to start over with new identities back in the 19th century. as far as i know, no trace of the Benders has ever been found after they booked. there were people held on suspicion of being part of the bender family but nothing could ever be proved.

[Neil]

It's a shame HH Holmes 'hotel" burned down! Can you imagine how much money that place would make now as a 'house of horrors' museum etc!

Although I suspect, had it survived it probably would have been bought and knocked down for property development...


Isn't Leonardo Dicaprio suppose to be starring in a film about him? - http://www.starpulse.com/news/NextMovie/2011/12/19/leonardo_dicaprio_is_the_devil_in_the_

-- -------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

While not prolific, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were nasty pieces of work, again killing children. I think it's the fact these two people could work togethor in tormenting and killing children that's so scary! They even recorded some of the children pleading for help - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders#Victims

The victims were buried on the Moors, and I all of the bodies have now been located, except one, Keith Bennett.

[JDFP]

Has anyone mentioned the election of Barack Hussein Obama yet?

Let me add that to the list if not. It's certainly a low point of contemporary American society. What's just as disturbing is a failure of Conservativism being blemished by neocon asses like Bush Jr. that help lead to the election of Obama as a reaction to neocon sensibilities. I'm sure Bush Jr. and Obama both would cause people like Milton Friedman and William Buckley Jr. roll in their graves in absolute disgust.

Honorable Mention would be the War of Northern Aggression against the agrarian south and the bastard William Tecumseh Sherman waging a war of raping and pillaging and burning the homes of people in his destruction of culture and killing thousands (he was the 18th century Stalin in my opinion) against people who just wanted to live their lives in peace. I hope there is a special place in Hell for Sherman, personally.

j.p.

[Neil]

Has anyone mentioned the election of Barack Hussein Obama yet?
Not quite sure Obama is in keeping with the topic. I really don't get the Obama hate myself. Seems like a fairly sensible guy IMHO. Especially compared to the previous nut job!


Honorable Mention would be the War of Northern Aggression against the agrarian south and the bastard William Tecumseh Sherman waging a war of raping and pillaging and burning the homes of people in his destruction of culture and killing thousands (he was the 18th century Stalin in my opinion) against people who just wanted to live their lives in peace. I hope there is a special place in Hell for Sherman, personally.
Not heard of that. Got a link?

I suppose if we're going into that territory then Nanking should get a mention surely?! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

[MinionZombie]

OK, what historical stories are so horrid and despicable they sound like fiction!

For me, here's a couple:-
Sawney Bean - http://www.sawneybean.com/horrors2/bean.htm
Jack the Ripper - http://www.jack-the-ripper.org/victims-of-jack-the-ripper.htm
Elizabeth Bathroy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_B%C3%A1thory

Ah, Sawney Bean - I went to the Edinburgh Dungeon in 2010 and part of the tour was the tale of Sawney Bean. That portion had you on a boat, in total darkness, with the voices of the cannibal clan echoing around you (as stringy crap dangled from the ceiling and hit you in the face) ... it was amazing how much the surround sound felt so real after mere moments in the dark. At one point it genuinely felt like one of their faces was right next to mine in the darkness, hehe ... then we disembark the boat and meet with one of the members, who has a couple of hacked-up bodies on his table. The actor strides in and around the audience intimidating us all (indeed he got right up in my face, saying something like that I looked delicious, haha), and then we moved on ... just reading about it in the waiting area was grim (they had various gruesome tales on plaques), but add it into a really kick arse Dungeon tour and it was really creepy. An astonishing tale.

[Neil]

^^ I wish I'd know about the Edinburgh Dungeon, as I would have gone!

[rightwing401]

Check out this guy. Most proficient hitman in recorded history, Richard Kuklinski a.k.a. 'The Iceman'. You wanna see something really freaky, look at this guy's eyes when he's describing how he killed people, there is litterally nothing there. He talks about killing people, to quote boondock saints, "Like he's ordering a f*cking pizza".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4c3flhSaU

[Mike70]

^^

ugh, this guy was an animal for sure. I saw something on about him not too long ago and was shocked at how cold and unfeeling this dude was. apparently, he once filmed one of his victims being eaten by rats. lovely world we live in sometimes isn't it?

[SymphonicX]

Check out this guy. Most proficient hitman in recorded history, Richard Kuklinski a.k.a. 'The Iceman'. You wanna see something really freaky, look at this guy's eyes when he's describing how he killed people, there is litterally nothing there. He talks about killing people, to quote boondock saints, "Like he's ordering a f*cking pizza".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4c3flhSaU

Wow....that is really, really.....shit I can't even find a word for this guy.
Clearly a sociopath...don't have to look far into his upbringing to see where most of his lack of empathy comes from...strict religious beatings as a child can pretty much turn one into a monster. His parents sounded f**king horrific, and this is to me just another one of those cases where a person can have all the lines to empathic behaviour severed by evil fucking parents, and a rough upbringing.
Of course that doesn't apply to everything, but it's a good marker of measuring how fucked up a person can get.


The fucked up thing here is that he DID feel empathy - right at the end of the doc, he wallows in the hurt he's caused his family - that empathic line to the brain exists still, but it's buried deep beneath a murderous animal - he managed to sever those connections to caring about murder but he couldn't dismiss the knowledge that he'd never had a family, until he met his wife, and his actions had destroyed any chance he had of being normal and creating something for his family that he never had himself.

The family link was the most prevalent element in all of this. He had an awful upbringing and a terrible, uncaring family. He turned into a monster but still had that link to a loving family idealogy - something he wanted but never had. By the time he had a chance to create something, he was already gone.
you can't help but wonder what may have been if at the romance stage of his relationship with his wife, wasn't separate from his life of murder...if there was any crossover, any danger to his own family or chance of being completely outcast because of his actions, he may have taken a different course.

Probably not though, by then he was way too far gone. He'd completely lost the ability to think and feel as though he was the victim...but I think some of this shit was massive bravado.
I didn't think he was as cold as you made out when talking about the killings. He was matter of fact, yes - but his hesitations, constant mouth twitching etc made me feel that he was weighing up and dismissing each case everytime he thought of it. He was calm, considered and articulate - but the process he seemed to go through dictates that he has a skill of being able to assess a situation then instantly dismiss the emotional consequences of it - with such skill and ferocity that he could become this sort of killer.

Definitely a despicable guy.

[MinionZombie]

^^ I wish I'd know about the Edinburgh Dungeon, as I would have gone!

Were you in Edinburgh recently?

The Dungeon is pretty close to the train station, right beside it in fact, just over the bridge from Princes Street. If you happen to be by there again sometime, definitely check it out. Well worth the money, I had a blast. Likewise, not much further up the hill, there's Mary King's Close - a tour of real underground streets underneath Edinburgh. The Dungeon is better by comparison, but Mary King's Close was really interesting too - you get a tour guide (we got a guy portraying a grade digger) and you see how they used to live way back when in Edinburgh. Chilling - yet morbidly fascinating - stuff.

[AcesandEights]

Check out this guy. Most proficient hitman in recorded history, Richard Kuklinski a.k.a. 'The Iceman'.

Wow, did some reading on this guy this afternoon. A complete monster. Seems like some of his hitman claims are on shaky ground, though. Might have to read more about him down the line.

[rightwing401]

SimphonicX and Aces, dudes, you need to read the book on this f*cker. The documentary doesn't do any justice for how demeanted The Iceman was. In one of his off camera interviews, he tells how he calmly explained to his then 8 year old daughter about how difficult it would be for him to kill her if he ever accidentally beat her mother to death because, in his words, "I can't leave any potential witnesses, but you're my favorite possession."

That's all his family and wife were to this guy, things that belonged to him. And that was it. His wife Barbara never left him out of total fear for her life, because when they were first going out she tried to politely ask him to back off a bit because his behavior of constantly being around her was unsettling, Richard stabbed her in the arm and calmly stated, "You're mine, you belong to me now." He then told her that if she ever left him and he couldn't find her, he would take it out on her closest family members. Honestly, I've viewed her as one of the most resiliant women ever. When she first found out that she was pregnate, she had a sit down with Kuklinski and told him, "If you ever lay a hand on this child or any others we have, I'll cut your f*cking throat while you're sleeping."

His response to that was a calm shrug followed by an "Ok."

Richard said that Barbara was one of the few human beings he had ever learned in his life to trust, and she earned it when one time he had shoved a butcher knife into her hands and turned his back to her, stating, "If you really want to take me out, this is the only free shot I'm ever going to give you," and she didn't.

Check out the second part of the documentary, when he gets into how he killed one of his best friends of some 20 years. The interviewer asks him if he ever felt remorse for killing that friend or any others he ever had. Richard calmly states, "Let me tell you something. Right now, I'm serving multiple life sentences, I'm never getting out of prison. And the only reason that I'm in here right now is that a friend of mine, a guy I knew for years and trusted, ratted me out to the cops. And he's the only friend of mine that I didn't kill. So what do you think?"

[AcesandEights]

SimphonicX and Aces, dudes, you need to read the book on this fucker. The documentary doesn't do any justice for how demeanted The Iceman was. In one of his off camera interviews, he tells how he calmly explained to his then 8 year old daughter about how difficult it would be for him to kill her if he ever accidentally beat her mother to death because, in his words, "I can't leave any potential witnesses, but you're my favorite possession."

Sounds terrifying! By the way, thanks for posting about him, RW. As horrible as this stuff is I do find it fascinating to read about what makes these sorts tick. Do you happen to recall which book you read on him? Seems like there's a couple with very similar titles by different authors.

[Neil]

Were you in Edinburgh recently?

The Dungeon is pretty close to the train station, right beside it in fact, just over the bridge from Princes Street. If you happen to be by there again sometime, definitely check it out. Well worth the money, I had a blast. Likewise, not much further up the hill, there's Mary King's Close - a tour of real underground streets underneath Edinburgh. The Dungeon is better by comparison, but Mary King's Close was really interesting too - you get a tour guide (we got a guy portraying a grade digger) and you see how they used to live way back when in Edinburgh. Chilling - yet morbidly fascinating - stuff.Good 7-8yrs ago!

[rightwing401]

Aces, the book is titled "The Ice Man: Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer".

I won't lie, it's not a book for the faint of heart. Kuklinski wasn't shy about vividly describing some of his murders, some even made my stomach turn, which is hard for a book to do to me. But yeah, it's a pretty impressive look into the mind of a true psychopath.

[Neil]

Aces, the book is titled "The Ice Man: Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer".

I won't lie, it's not a book for the faint of heart. Kuklinski wasn't shy about vividly describing some of his murders, some even made my stomach turn, which is hard for a book to do to me. But yeah, it's a pretty impressive look into the mind of a true psychopath.Strange he can profit by this sort of publication? ie: Making money by writing about his criminal activities?

[SymphonicX]

SimphonicX and Aces, dudes, you need to read the book on this f*cker. The documentary doesn't do any justice for how demeanted The Iceman was. In one of his off camera interviews, he tells how he calmly explained to his then 8 year old daughter about how difficult it would be for him to kill her if he ever accidentally beat her mother to death because, in his words, "I can't leave any potential witnesses, but you're my favorite possession."

That's all his family and wife were to this guy, things that belonged to him. And that was it. His wife Barbara never left him out of total fear for her life, because when they were first going out she tried to politely ask him to back off a bit because his behavior of constantly being around her was unsettling, Richard stabbed her in the arm and calmly stated, "You're mine, you belong to me now." He then told her that if she ever left him and he couldn't find her, he would take it out on her closest family members. Honestly, I've viewed her as one of the most resiliant women ever. When she first found out that she was pregnate, she had a sit down with Kuklinski and told him, "If you ever lay a hand on this child or any others we have, I'll cut your f*cking throat while you're sleeping."

His response to that was a calm shrug followed by an "Ok."

Richard said that Barbara was one of the few human beings he had ever learned in his life to trust, and she earned it when one time he had shoved a butcher knife into her hands and turned his back to her, stating, "If you really want to take me out, this is the only free shot I'm ever going to give you," and she didn't.

Check out the second part of the documentary, when he gets into how he killed one of his best friends of some 20 years. The interviewer asks him if he ever felt remorse for killing that friend or any others he ever had. Richard calmly states, "Let me tell you something. Right now, I'm serving multiple life sentences, I'm never getting out of prison. And the only reason that I'm in here right now is that a friend of mine, a guy I knew for years and trusted, ratted me out to the cops. And he's the only friend of mine that I didn't kill. So what do you think?"

It's totally fascinating stuff - thanks for posting about it!
It's hard to feel any sympathy for that monster and personally, I don't. I'm glad he's imprisoned - what an absolutely evil human being.

Dude reminds me of Tony Soprano sometimes....especially those older pictures....

[Publius]

Strange he can profit by this sort of publication? ie: Making money by writing about his criminal activities?

New Jersey has a "Son of Sam law" that makes it possible, at least in theory, for crime victims or their families to seize anything a criminal makes from publicity of his crime (e.g. by selling book rights or movie rights). Don't know if any action was actually taken in Kuklinski's case, though.

[rightwing401]

Strange he can profit by this sort of publication? ie: Making money by writing about his criminal activities?

Well, it's gonna be kinda hard for Kuklinski to do that considering that he's dead. Even though his death was ruled to natural causes, the timing of his end has been rather suspicious. He was set to testify against a high ranking mob boss that would have put the sucker behind bars for the rest of his life, but once Kuklinski went belly up, all charges were dropped against the mob boss. Kind of convinient for that guy, one would say.

But honestly, like Publius said, the money from the book really should go to the known families of his victims. It would certainly be the least that the publisher and the Kuklinski family could do for all the suffering the man inflicted. Don't know if that was ever done or will be done though either.

[Mike70]

Check out the second part of the documentary, when he gets into how he killed one of his best friends of some 20 years. The interviewer asks him if he ever felt remorse for killing that friend or any others he ever had. Richard calmly states, "Let me tell you something. Right now, I'm serving multiple life sentences, I'm never getting out of prison. And the only reason that I'm in here right now is that a friend of mine, a guy I knew for years and trusted, ratted me out to the cops. And he's the only friend of mine that I didn't kill. So what do you think?"

didn't this dude know another serial/contract killer that drove an ice cream truck as cover? he would serve ice cream to kids then go off and kill someone, only to calmly return to the ice cream truck and keep the push-up pops flowing to little kids.

i think he went by the simple moniker of "the ice cream man" or some such shit like that.

unless i'm completely off base here, didn't kuklinski claim to have killed this guy as well?

[rightwing401]

Yeah Mike, it was a match made in hell.

The dude, can't remember his name, was a highly intelligent chemist. He showed Kuklinski how to mix this special chemical into Cyanide, and in just the right dose, make it (at the time) completely untracable to any known forensics. And when Kuklinski found out how effective it was for murdering someone, he switched over to poisoning as his primary means of conducting hits, which made him only more deadly than he already was.

And yeah, he shot the dude dead because he wanted Kuklinski to kill his wife and son as a special hit. Kuklinski I believed killed him in a rage, as I remember it, because his one rule with being a contract killer was no women, and without question no kids. He had a tendency to put extra special attention to torturing a hit if he found out the man was a confirmed rapist or child molestor.

[SymphonicX]

He had a tendency to put extra special attention to torturing a hit if he found out the man was a confirmed rapist or child molestor.

Don't you just love blindsided criminal morality?
They put themselves on a pedestal sometimes...what makes Kuklinski a better human being than a child killer? Erm....nothing, you're both evil f**ks.

It's fuckin' ironic really, how a guy can murder a woman and get a relatively easy time in jail compared to a guy who did the same thing to a kid....still bloody murderers though eh...still scum.

[Mike70]

Don't you just love blindsided criminal morality?
They put themselves on a pedestal sometimes...what makes Kuklinski a better human being than a child killer? Erm....nothing, you're both evil f**ks.

It's fuckin' ironic really, how a guy can murder a woman and get a relatively easy time in jail compared to a guy who did the same thing to a kid....still bloody murderers though eh...still scum.

you beat me to the punch here. i've always been fascinated by the warped "morality" of some criminals. in one way, it is a totally sick perversion of right and wrong. but you can look at it another way: it might mean that deep down inside of some of these people there is still a kernel of humanity left and this a defense mechanism they use to rationalize their actions because they understand just how wrong what they are doing is.

[Rumsfeld]

The Monster of Florence. There are a ton of books on this guy. Also, I heard it inspired the creation of the Hannibal Lector character.

[Neil]

Tell you who we didn't include in this thread - TheDnepropetrovsk Maniacs...

It's the fact three seemingly average young lads could turn into such mindless monsters!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs


The case gained additional notoriety because the killers made video recordings of some of the murders, with one of the videos leaking to the Internet. Two 19-year-old locals, Viktor Sayenko and Igor Suprunyuck, were arrested and charged with 21 murders.

A third conspirator, Alexander Hanzha, was charged with two armed robberies that took place before the murder spree. On February 11, 2009, all three defendants were found guilty. Suprunyuck and Sayenko were sentenced to life imprisonment, while Hanzha received nine years in prison. The lawyers for Suprunyuck and Sayenko launched an appeal, which was dismissed by the Supreme Court of Ukraine in November 2009.

[slickwilly13]

Tell you who we didn't include in this thread - TheDnepropetrovsk Maniacs...

It's the fact three seemingly average young lads could turn into such mindless monsters!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

I remember those pussies. Someone in prison should record a snuff film on those three. They deserve the same fate as their victims. Hopefully, those three are being abused brutally in prison by the guards and other immates.

[Neil]

I remember those pussies. Someone in prison should record a snuff film on those three. They deserve the same fate as their victims. Hopefully, those three are being abused brutally in prison by the guards and other immates.

Epically horrible read isn't it!

[slickwilly13]

Epically horrible read isn't it!

Not only is it horrible to read, but I watched the entire leaked video. I am glad local policed worked them over. I have read and been told the Ukrainian police are quite brutal.

[AcesandEights]

Not only is it horrible to read, but I watched the entire leaked video. I am glad local policed worked them over. I have read and been told the Ukrainian police are quite brutal.

Yeah, apparently they worked over one of the survivors of the attacks too, the first survivor I think who was able to give a description. I can't imagine having seen a friend murdered, fought and run to escape and finally report the incident only to then get tuned up by the constabulary.

[Neil]

Yeah, apparently they worked over one of the survivors of the attacks too, the first survivor I think who was able to give a description. I can't imagine having seen a friend murdered, fought and run to escape and finally report the incident only to then get tuned up by the constabulary.

Sorry, can you clarify that? Don't quite follow?

[AcesandEights]

Sorry, can you clarify that? Don't quite follow?

One of the breaks in the case came when they had an eyewitness report of the 2 kids doing the actual killing. That eyewitness report came from a teen who escaped the two killers, unfortunately the witness' friend was not so lucky and was murdered by the two killers. This escaped witness was then assumed, by the Ukrainian police, to be the murderer of his friend and beaten by these authorities to get a confession. Eventually it became clear to the authorities that the kid they'd been beating to elicit a confession from was just an innocent survivor and was telling them the truth.

[SymphonicX]

Not only is it horrible to read, but I watched the entire leaked video. I am glad local policed worked them over. I have read and been told the Ukrainian police are quite brutal.

I saw the video online - but before clicking it I read the caption...it said "Don't watch this unless you want to remember it for the rest of your life"....

So I didn't watch it. I heard about the eyeball stabbing. Absolutely horrific.

Remember Nick Berg? jewish businessman executed in the Middle East....they sent his beheading to news organisations and it was leaked - again I could have watched that...but no way...Not sure I'm cut out to see any more of that nastyness...

Same thing with Kenneth Bigley but they didn't leak the video - it was fed to us via a live feed which came accompanied with a message of "if anyone patches this feed up without us expressly permitting it, they will be a case for instant dismissal"...

so I thankfully never had to watch that one either...but a colleague of mine did and she described it to me....ugh.

[Neil]

I saw the video online - but before clicking it I read the caption...it said "Don't watch this unless you want to remember it for the rest of your life"....

So I didn't watch it. I heard about the eyeball stabbing. Absolutely horrific.
I've also never really watched that video. I watched the first few seconds to get an idea of the situation, and then stopped watching. Didn't see any reason to carry on. I don't think I could 'detach' enough to watch it.

[AcesandEights]

I generally don't watch real death videos. Too much like whoring on someone else's death and their families pain and loss.

[Mike70]

I generally don't watch real death videos. Too much like whoring on someone else's death and their families pain and loss.

me neither and exactly. i really, really worry about anyone who would find entertainment value in such a thing or even want to watch/hear such things. for example: i think tim treadwell was a total moron and got exactly what he deserved but do i want to hear the tape of him being torn into pieces and eaten alive by a grizzly bear? absolutely not.

[MinionZombie]

I'm similarly minded - I don't want to watch "real death videos" ... I saw one of those beheading videos years ago at uni when a housemate said "hey, come and have a look at this" and it was so quickly into the actual act that I didn't even think to look away. That haunted me for a good while afterwards, but I've mostly forgotten it now (thankfully). It was like back in our sixth form days when that "Rotten" website (or whatever it was called) was 'all the rage' with people sending links saying, similarly, "hey, have a look at this" ... I still think about one I saw that turned me off that sort of shit immediately (someone was electrocuted in their bath tub when a heater fell in, and it remained on, so it cooked ... or rather, stewed, the body until it was goop aside from the skeleton, the head and one arm that was above the water ... in the description they said they pulled on the arm and it slid away from the rest of the victim ... ... *shivers* ... ... that's haunted me for years and I still remember it).

I found it strange when footage of Gaddafi's body was shown - repeatedly - on the news over here. They had a warning beforehand, but it was strange to see very clear images of this despicable human being (now dead body) getting hurled about with that slack 'death face' on him. That was all a bit too creepy for me.

[Neil]

While not prolific, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were nasty pieces of work, again killing children. I think it's the fact these two people could work togethor in tormenting and killing children that's so scary! They even recorded some of the children pleading for help - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders#Victims

The victims were buried on the Moors, and I all of the bodies have now been located, except one, Keith Bennett.
Hope he's suffering!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18690295

[Neil]

How could we have left Vlad (Dracula) The Impaler out of this thread? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

The idea of impalement is horrific. A not too sharp pole (too sharp would mean a quicker death), greased to allow it to 'get in' and then inserted (typically through the rectum) resulting in a slow, agonising death, with plenty of noise, blood and 'odour'...

The fact he would cast people to this fate without the slightest second thought, and seemingly even take delight in their pain, is surely a clear sign of his madness. Even children were not safe!


Impalement was Dracula's preferred method of torture and execution. Impalement was and is one of the most gruesome ways of dying imaginable. Dracula usually had a horse attached to each of the victim's legs an a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp; else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Normally the stake was inserted into the body through the buttocks and was often forced through the body until it emerged from the mouth. However, there were many instances where victims were impaled through other bodily orifices or through the abdomen or chest. Infants were sometimes impaled on the stake forced through their mother's chests. The records indicate that victims were sometimes impaled so that they hung upside down on the stake.

Death by impalement was slow and painful. Victims sometimes endured for hours or days. Dracula often had the stakes arranged in various geometric patterns. The most common pattern was a ring of concentric circles in the outskirts of a city that was his target. The height of the spear indicated the rank of the victim. The decaying corpses were often left up for months. It was once reported that an invading Turkish army turned back in fright when it encountered thousands of rotting corpses impaled on the banks of the Danube. In 1461 Mohammed II, the conqueror of Constantinople, a man not noted for his squeamishness, returned to Constantinople after being sickened by the sight of twenty thousand impaled corpses outside of Dracula's capital of Tirgoviste.

Impalement was Dracula's favorite but by no means his only method of torture. The list of tortures employed by this cruel prince reads like an inventory of Hell's tools: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to wild animals and boiling alive.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Impaled.gif/220px-Impaled.gif


http://www.weird-encyclopedia.com/vlad-dracula.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

[wayzim]

But also understand that in many parts of Romania, Vlad Tepes is a National Hero because of his war against the Ottoman Empire, and his grisly yet effective administration. Also, many scholars wonder if the worst stories had perhaps been started by his political enemies ( both foreign and domestic ) especially German and Russian sources.

Ever since the mid seventies, when as a kid I first got hold of the book 'In Search of Dracula. ', I confess I was hooked on the complexity of this ruler. The torture he'd suffered under the Turks ( who held he and his younger brother Radu to keep the father in line - that didn't quite work out ) reveals impalement as an example of using your enemies methods against them.
Additionally, with both his older brother and the father decapitated by rivals within their own province, Vlad had little reason to be humane himself.

The moment Vlad Dracula ( son of the dragon ) came into power, he held a feast for the murderers of his dad. His asking the lords how many rulers they'd lived through, was pure genius in identifying those responsible. He then executed the oldest among them, using their families as slave labor to build his primary fortress, high in the mountains.

Ok, I'll stop now - LOL

If only so I can go reread 'Dracula, Prince of Many Faces. ' ( 1989, compiled by the same guys (Radu R. Florescu and Raymond McNally ) who'd first made him famous worldwide with 'In Search of ... ' )

Wayne Z

' There was a legend of a spring, situated in a remote region of Wallachia, by which sat a golden cup that thirsty travellers could use to drink the cool mountain waters. And when a curious pilgrim asked why no one thought to steal this treasure, the villagers would say that it remained by decree of Vlad, the prince, on penalty of death. And to this day, not even the boldest thief dared to take that cup. '

[Neil]

^^ That is a problem - ie: How much was propaganda against him, and how many of theses evil acts was he really guilty of!