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SymphonicX
26-Jul-2012, 04:19 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377


Operating system Windows 8 will be a "catastrophe" for PC game makers, according to Valve Software's boss.

Speaking at the Casual Connect game conference in Seattle, Gabe Newell said the next version of Windows could mean big changes to the PC market.

Many took his comment as a criticism of the changed user interface in Windows 8 as well as its built-in Windows Store.

The Windows Store could dent the success of Valve's own online market, Steam, through which players buy games.

Hat tricks

Mr Newell, who worked for Microsoft for 13 years on Windows, said his company had embraced the open-source software Linux as a "hedging strategy" designed to offset some of the damage Windows 8 was likely to do.

"We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well," said Mr Newell.

"Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."

The arrival of Windows 8 would be likely to drive some PC makers and others out of the business because it put so much pressure on their sales margins, Mr Newell added.

He said the success of Valve, known for its Half Life, Left4Dead and Portal titles, had been down to the open nature of the PC.

"We've been a free rider, and we've been able to benefit from everything that went into PCs and the internet," he told the conference. "And we have to continue to figure out how there will be open platforms."


Microsoft could be "tempted" to make Windows 8 a closed platform, according to Mr Newell However, he added, the openness that helped Valve as well as firms such as Google and Zynga could disappear with Windows 8.

"There's a strong temptation to close the platform," he said, "because they look at what they can accomplish when they limit the competitors' access to the platform, and they say, 'That's really exciting.'"

This is seen by commentators to be a reference to the inclusion of a Windows Store in the Microsoft operating system.

This is a shop through which users will be able to buy apps for their Windows 8 device.

On some versions of Windows 8, it will be the only way to get downloadable software such as games.

Microsoft takes a cut, up to 30%, of every sale made through this store.

This could be a significant threat to the massively successful Steam online game store that Valve runs and which gives it a commission on every title sold through the online market.

A Windows Store closed to everyone but Microsoft might reduce the range of games available for sale through Steam.

Windows 8's links with Microsoft's Xbox Live online game service could also dent the appeal of Steam for many people.

Mr Newell said Valve was preparing for the future in other ways. In particular, he said, it was trying to make tools and services that players could use to make games and gaming more fun for everyone.

"We think the future is very different [from] successes we've had in the past," he said.

"When you are playing a game, you are trying to think about creating value for other players, so the line between content player and creator is really fuzzy."

One harbinger of this future was perhaps found, he said, in the success of one Team Fortress player in Kansas who was earning $150,000 (£97,000) a year making virtual hats.

"This isn't about video games," he said. "It's about thinking about goods and services in a digital world."

I've always said the new generation of devices will be some of the last we will have that requires actual hardware. The "iDevice" mentality is cloud storage, app stores, and closed platforms which strangle development and innovation. The standardisation of the PC world is a bad thing, and it's only a few steps from all your TV, games, music and phone book being streams off an insecure centralised server that you simply access using your broadband and a generic tablet/tv screen.

EvilNed
26-Jul-2012, 04:37 PM
What's so lucrative about the PC, contra the Mac, is first and foremost the gaming, is it not? Why would Microsoft want to cut down on this?

SymphonicX
26-Jul-2012, 05:01 PM
Exactly. It seems they have bought into the fallacy that there's a company called "PC" and that Microsoft owns it. It doesn't.

Microsoft is the equivalent to the petrol I put in my car. The hardware makes the thing move....but it's powered by the fuel of Windows. With iDevices, the kit and the software are standardised, and work in unison. There's a company called "Apple" and they make that kind of shit. Windows has never produced actual decent hardware let alone standardised it for the mass market.

This may signal an eventual move over to Linux for the PC crowd who actually want to retain the functionality of their hardware without having Micro$oft tell them which hardware they buy or which software they can download. PC was always about choice - and Apple was never about that, it was about functionality, compatibility, and responsiveness. Standardised hardware does not lead to innovation in games, and if it does, it's realised very quickly and never progresses (best iGame since Angry Birds? - most innovative console game of this year...? No real huge innovations since Gears of War)

MinionZombie
26-Jul-2012, 05:52 PM
Sod Windows 8 and all this tablet nonsense, I've only just got my first Windows 7 computer.

I also rather dislike this "cloud" stuff - as you say, insecure servers, all your shit up in the air and only accessible via broadband/wireless connections ... in a world where the broadband/wireless infrastructure is woefully inadequate. My broadband is rated "D-" or even "E" on a global scale, and wireless, forget about it - my computer upstairs can't find the router downstairs via a wireless device at all. Sitting right next to the router, yes, but in another room/storey of the house? You'd be so lucky.

Where was I? Erm ... whatever ... /rant.

shootemindehead
26-Jul-2012, 06:17 PM
Innovation was always the standard with PC gaming though. That's where innovation came from. The stagnation of gaming largely came about because of the stranglehold on the industry by console gaming. With consoles you can ONLY progress so far and games after that progression will only fit within the parameters of the consoles ability to run them.

PC's can always be upgraded.

That's the theory anyway.

The problem was that companies produced PC games that just couldn't run on the current hardware setup of most PC owners and wouldn't for many years, by which time few people had interest in the actual game. Producers, nowadays, produce games that run on current PC hardware, but that's because consoles have levelled the market. The drawback is there is a severe lack of innovation in gaming.

I'm playing PC games (on full settings) on a rig that I've owned since 2006 and have never felt the need to up the processor. I've changed out the graphics card, but only because my last one went bang.

Previously, I never would have got 6+ years out of a PC without an upgrade to the entire system, as the games I was interested in just wouldn't run on them.

However the Steve Jobs/Apple approach to everything would be an ABSOLUTE FUCKING DISASTER for everything. I despise Apple and their iZombies. I hate proprietary strangleholds.

-- -------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------


Sod Windows 8 and all this tablet nonsense, I've only just got my first Windows 7 computer.

I also rather dislike this "cloud" stuff - as you say, insecure servers, all your shit up in the air and only accessible via broadband/wireless connections ... in a world where the broadband/wireless infrastructure is woefully inadequate. My broadband is rated "D-" or even "E" on a global scale, and wireless, forget about it - my computer upstairs can't find the router downstairs via a wireless device at all. Sitting right next to the router, yes, but in another room/storey of the house? You'd be so lucky.

Where was I? Erm ... whatever ... /rant.

The fuckin cloud...jesus, I hate the bloody term. What a useless buzzword.

Drives me nuts.

MinionZombie
26-Jul-2012, 07:13 PM
How on earth have you managed to not upgrade your PC for playing PC games since 2006?! :stunned::eek::stunned:

Count me in as a non-fan of the whole Apple "iCult" thing. Fine if you're into it, I guess, but I rather dislike the - as you say - strangehole they seem to have, as well as there being superior or equal products out there for a lot less money (e.g. when I got an MP3 player, I specifically didn't want an iPod, so I got a Sony Walkman MP3 player instead and I'm very happy with it - loads of space on it, handles video, has the radio on it, can record voices, etc - and I can simply drag and drop - no fucking iTunes for me, thank you very much! :cool:) ... I've always used PCs personally (each platform has their own problems, naturally), as the times I have tried Apple Macs at other people's houses/places of business, I've not liked it. To each their own, but the 'cultish' vibe you get from the seemingly slavish devotion the Apple users have to the company does kind of creep me out (reminds me of an episode of Futurama, hehe).

This all said, if Windows did actually 'close up' and restrict the PC market, that'd be a moronic idea.

LouCipherr
26-Jul-2012, 07:50 PM
"Windows 8 suuuuucks brah!"

Well no shit! :lol: This should be of no surprise to anyone who has been following the development.

"Metro" interface, indeed. Microsoft needs to give me my fucking desktop the way it's always been and follow the golden rule of: "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" :rolleyes:



How on earth have you managed to not upgrade your PC for playing PC games since 2006?!

MZ - wanna hear something hilarious? The desktop machine I'm working on at home is 4.5 years old. The only thing I have done to upgrade it since building it is adding a upgraded video card 3 years into it's lifespan and adding some faster RAM. Sure, I've overclocked the ever-loving piss out of it, but it's stable and still runs all the newest games with no issues. :D

Dj has pestered me for the past 2 years telling me I need an upgrade, to which I reply, "It runs everything I need it to and it's fast as a rabbit tweaked on crystal meth - why, exactly, do I need an upgrade?" :lol:

Andy
26-Jul-2012, 08:16 PM
While i am a iMac user i am by no means part of the iCult as you guys called it.. i like that too.. I use a iMac becuase its my personal preference but i despise itunes and refuse to have it installed or use it. Thats why my iphone is hacked to allow music to be added by drag an drop :D

Anyway, i wanted to point out 2 things.

1. I Said months and months (in fact it might have been last year) that windows 8 sucks after i used it for the first time at work.

2. Microsoft have been trying to turn windows into a apple operating system for a very long time, in fact im suprised at how shocked some of you guys seem at this statement? Almost every "innovation" in windows since windows 95 has been either ripped off mac, cloned from mac or attempting to move the platform closer to ios.

That that this seems to be news to you guys shocks me, While both cloud and app stores are very recent additions, this is how the industry has always been moving.

shootemindehead
26-Jul-2012, 08:40 PM
How on earth have you managed to not upgrade your PC for playing PC games since 2006?! :stunned::eek::stunned:

Count me in as a non-fan of the whole Apple "iCult" thing. Fine if you're into it, I guess, but I rather dislike the - as you say - strangehole they seem to have, as well as there being superior or equal products out there for a lot less money (e.g. when I got an MP3 player, I specifically didn't want an iPod, so I got a Sony Walkman MP3 player instead and I'm very happy with it - loads of space on it, handles video, has the radio on it, can record voices, etc - and I can simply drag and drop - no fucking iTunes for me, thank you very much! :cool:) ... I've always used PCs personally (each platform has their own problems, naturally), as the times I have tried Apple Macs at other people's houses/places of business, I've not liked it. To each their own, but the 'cultish' vibe you get from the seemingly slavish devotion the Apple users have to the company does kind of creep me out (reminds me of an episode of Futurama, hehe).

This all said, if Windows did actually 'close up' and restrict the PC market, that'd be a moronic idea.

Ah crap...I had a big long rant on MAC's for you there Min and it went belly up.

I'm on a MAC at the moment...nuff said.

:mad:


:D

Christopher Jon
27-Jul-2012, 12:25 AM
Gabe Newell is being bitchy because the windows marketplace will cut into steam and Valve's profits. His rant is all about money. Boo Hoo.

Windows 8 isn't going to effect PC gaming and users aren't forced to use Metro. Win 8 RT is a lightweight version for tablets that only runs the Metro user interface but Win 8 Pro lets the user use Metro or a good 'ol Win 7 user interface.

Microsoft hasn't gone Apple. They guys just being a tool and blowing rumors out of his ass.

Danny
27-Jul-2012, 01:19 AM
he said the same about the ps3, then got all 'steamworks' on us not a year after. i mean i love gaben and his steam sales, but dude can be a hell of a fanboy in terms of getting bitchy over opinions.

LouCipherr
27-Jul-2012, 02:47 PM
users aren't forced to use Metro.

True, but the simple fact that it's included with the Win8 package (and is the default interface) goes to show that Microsoft is completely clueless as far as what their users want. Metro is a waste of resources for any desktop machine, period. It's meant for mobile devices, not laptops and not desktops.

I agree Newell is a moron, but that doesn't change the fact that he's right about one thing: Windows 8 is going to be garbage and a failure for Microsoft.

shootemindehead
27-Jul-2012, 08:31 PM
It's going to be the new 'Vista', with Windows 7 ending up as the new 'XP'...

...which I still use.