paradise or prison

[darth los]

the dawn 78' scenario had our 4 heroes holding up in a mall. would you consider it to be a paradise or a prison? Fran obviously thoght it was a prison while the men seemed enamored with the idea of having everything they could ever want at thier fingertips. Considering how much women love to shop don't you find that ironic?

[Pushead Jim]

Considering what was going on outside the mall I would say it was at the least an oasis. maybe more of a guilded cage?

[TripleRex]

Might seem great for a while, but eventually the food is going to run out and the power will go off. Then it's a prison. But it sure would be fun at first.

[darth los]

If you notice near the end of the film the novelty of the mall had worn off and everyone was pretty stoic, but what else could they do considering what was waiting for them outside.

[panic]

I've always thought that Fran's reaction had more to do with her being pregnant. I think she was more than a little freaked out about having her baby in a mall with no medical attention. Plus women feel sort of vulnerable as they approach delivery -- I can only imagine how a zombie apocalypse would exacerbate that.

From my perspective, the mall scenario would be a good place to stake out in the early phase of the rising. However, as the encounter with the bikers proved, it'd be tough to plan on keeping it to yourself indefinitely.

I would have enjoyed it for as long as possible, while at the same time laying careful plans for bugging out when the time came. I might have even taken forays into the nearby country-side to set up caches of supplies and weapons that I could bug out to in the event that the mall go overrun by the dead or the living.



the dawn 78' scenario had our 4 heroes holding up in a mall. would you consider it to be a paradise or a prison? Fran obviously thoght it was a prison while the men seemed enamored with the idea of having everything they could ever want at thier fingertips. Considering how much women love to shop don't you find that ironic?

[darth los]

it's also interesting to note that their disenchantment with the situation seemed to coincide with roger's death. Even after several months have passed Fran still sets the table for four.

[EvilNed]

Maybe Roger was the lucky one.

[Venomous]

It was more like shelter from the storm. They originally wanted to just bed down and catch their breath for a while. But they noticed that the pickings were good at the mall. In a time like that, you take whatever you can get, whenever you can get it, and an abandoned shopping mall is about as good as it gets. C'mon, you have to worry about other humans as well as zombies. If you're expecting every place you find to be like the Ritz Carlton then you're not going to survive very long.

[coma]

Even after several months have passed Fran still sets the table for four.

I never noticed that, and I have seen DOTD like 75 times. Its a gift that keeps on giving!

[Debbieangel]

OK tell me this I could never see why Peter couldnt talk to the mortorcycle gang on the road..shared stuff from the mall with them..they could have had a real good set up fortifying the mall and having more people around....i know u are going to tell me they were a bad gang that would probably would have killed them all but what if the communication would have been friendly, just maybe they the gang wouldnt have been hellbent attacking them? I always wondered about that!
Another way of thinking aabout it tho back then motorcycle gangs had really really bad reps and no one wanted to see them breeze into their towns. But, I say what if the conversation would have been better. Remembering also Peter was a cop from his point of view he probably dealt alot with gang members but still I ask why couldnt they have gotten along for survival?

[Tullaryx]

Well, that's why Peter wanted to hear them out on the CD radio first. The fact that they lied from the beginning about their numbers probably just reinforced his views on the raiders. I think if I was in Peter's position I'd act the same.

If Peter made a mistake in the end it was making the decision for him and Stephen to leave their haven at the roof to check out what the raiders were doing. They knew the raiders will get in somehow and pretty much destroy whatever barricade they'd set-up. The moment the raiders got in they only had one choice and that's wait til dawn and leave by chopper.

[Danny]

id say prison myslef id rather do a 'jules' and 'walk the earth' with just some swords or something y'know since it is the end of the world i think id like to see if i could walk to china or something.:D

[Tullaryx]

As kirkman's The Walking Dead has pointed out, a prison is pretty much impenetrable once you clear it of the random zombies already inside. It's got strong double fencing all around the prison's perimeter. It will already have stock of food. Not many non-essentials to distract people using it as a haven. It probably will have its own fleet of buses and trucks that could be modded as a safe way to exit the prison to forage for more survivors and supplies. It will also have its own stockpile of weapons and riot gear (for a semblance of protection). Even raiders would have a hard time trying to bust into a prison that's well-protected by dedicated, armed survivors.

[Debbieangel]

Well, that's why Peter wanted to hear them out on the CD radio first. The fact that they lied from the beginning about their numbers probably just reinforced his views on the raiders. I think if I was in Peter's position I'd act the same.

If Peter made a mistake in the end it was making the decision for him and Stephen to leave their haven at the roof to check out what the raiders were doing. They knew the raiders will get in somehow and pretty much destroy whatever barricade they'd set-up. The moment the raiders got in they only had one choice and that's wait til dawn and leave by chopper.

ok I see that and I agree with you but, I am saying what if Peter would have argued with the guy saying he knew more was there and tried to negotiate with the leader of the gang and tell him they would share the wealth so to speak? I know naive, but, I also think it might have been kewl to see how they would have dealt with the growing mob of zombies together I guess in a perfect world.

[Tullaryx]

ok I see that and I agree with you but, I am saying what if Peter would have argued with the guy saying he knew more was there and tried to negotiate with the leader of the gang and tell him they would share the wealth so to speak? I know naive, but, I also think it might have been kewl to see how they would have dealt with the growing mob of zombies together I guess in a perfect world.

In a perfect world that's probably something that would happen, but human nature during extreme situations usually fosters and breeds paranoia and distrust rather than cooperation. :)

[axlish]

I'd consider it a paradise prison :)

I think the most difficult thing to deal with would be lack of a sexual companion, and that alone would probably make me stake out from time to time in the chopper, looking for a potential mate. I'd still make the mall my home, but I'd damn sure scour the area for spoils, such as gas.

[darth los]

It was more like shelter from the storm. They originally wanted to just bed down and catch their breath for a while. But they noticed that the pickings were good at the mall. In a time like that, you take whatever you can get, whenever you can get it, and an abandoned shopping mall is about as good as it gets. C'mon, you have to worry about other humans as well as zombies. If you're expecting every place you find to be like the Ritz Carlton then you're not going to survive very long.

If you think about it, it was the perfect set up. True, their original plan was just to use it as a pit stop, take a radio,tv,food and water and continue on their journey. But after their first foray into the mall they realized that they were never going to find a set up as sweet. Peter says "maybe we shouldn't be in such a hurry to leave". Compare it to the what seems like most popular plan in these situations which is to find some type of wilderness to escape to. For example: In dawn 78' Fran wants to go to Canada. Those cops by the docks want to go to an island any island. In Day 85' they bring up escaping to an island and ultimately do. In land they want to head up to Canada. Even in Yawn 04' they want to take a boat to, you guessed it, an island. Anyone notice a pattern here? I never understood the fascination with wanting to go to a secluded wilderness, brave the elements and struggle to find food. It's much more dangerous on the outside and not everyone has a 4 million dollar RV/ Tank to joyride in. Sure the logic would be that these places are remote and isolated with little or no human population that could spawn zombies or to share resources with. For that matter never being able to relax and say play cards and get drunk because you have to be forever vigillant about zombies sneaking up behind you and biting off your a**. Is this somehow going to bring purpose to a meaningless existence now that the world is at an end? The world as you knew it is over deal with it. Given the choice of in the mall or out there i'll take the mall any day. Sure the bikers were able to survive on the road for a while, but they were heavily armed and were great in number.- It is interesting to note that towards the end of the film, just before the biker raid, is where GAR truly makes his ultimate point about consumerism. Walking around their makeshift apartment they seem souless,like empty shells. They're surviving but aren't truly living. They have become empty shells existing for no particular purpose other than to consume goods. Their lives lack meaning, they're running on the basic instinct to live. Compare this to the zombies who are also running on instinct and are merly empty shells runing on extinct who have no pupose to their existence. I guess that could be a bummer after a while.


ok I see that and I agree with you but, I am saying what if Peter would have argued with the guy saying he knew more was there and tried to negotiate with the leader of the gang and tell him they would share the wealth so to speak? I know naive, but, I also think it might have been kewl to see how they would have dealt with the growing mob of zombies together I guess in a perfect world.

Well if i've learned anything from the GAR dead films. Despite disagreements that we have from time to time about inconsistancies whether it be a definitive timeline or running zombies the one constant theme that has stayed consistent thrughout the films: that man's inability to cooperate and live in peace with one another whether it be because of greed, lust for power or self preservation is much more of a threat than the zombie plauge. It is what leads to the demise of the characters in the films and is what seems to me to be the main threat. The zombies are like a side issue. Have you noticed that no one in generall ever gets bit unless they are acting stupid or carelss?(Roger immediately pops to mind) You can say whatever you want about the bikers but it is because they found a common ground and worked together that they were able to survive. But lo and behold as soon as they got greedy trashed the mall and made sure that our heroes could never use it again many of them died. Are heroes are guilty of this character flaw as well. As soon as Stephen uttered the words " it's ours, we took it, it's ours" he sealed his fate.


I'd consider it a paradise prison :)

I think the most difficult thing to deal with would be lack of a sexual companion, and that alone would probably make me stake out from time to time in the chopper, looking for a potential mate. I'd still make the mall my home, but I'd damn sure scour the area for spoils, such as gas.

You know that's one of the first things I thought of when I first saw the movie.I always thought that Peter always had in the back of his mind what lfe would be like, if he had a shot with Fran, if Stephen weren't in the picture. Why do you think it is that when he was about to kill himself he changed his mind ? Look at his face a second before he's about to pull the trigger. It's like he had a revalation, something like " wait a minute I just killed Stephen,there's nobody left I can have Fran all to myself".:sneaky: Witness the power of the thought of interaction with a female can have on men: It can bring them back from the brink of suicide. That's powerfull stuff.

[bassman]

I consider all four of Romero's "Dead" films to have the same thing to tie their "hideouts"(or whatever else you want to call it) together. The birdcage analogy works well if you ask me.

They're safe from the storm while inside, but the walls aren't only keeping things out...they're helping to keep them in.

"I see those wires and I can't help but think we're trapped in" - Riley(something along those lines)

[Debbieangel]

In a perfect world that's probably something that would happen, but human nature during extreme situations usually fosters and breeds paranoia and distrust rather than cooperation. :)
again i agree with you but, too bad the plot of the movie wouldnt have had Peter, Steven,Fran and the bikers together fighting the zombies...I think that might be an interesting plot.


I consider all four of Romero's "Dead" films to have the same thing to tie their "hideouts"(or whatever else you want to call it) together. The birdcage analogy works well if you ask me.

They're safe from the storm while inside, but the walls aren't only keeping things out...they're helping to keep them in.

"I see those wires and I can't help but think we're trapped in" - Riley(something along those lines)
Birdcage yes...nice BIG birdcage! What better place to hold up? You would have "one stop shopping right at your fingertips".

[MikePizzoff]

I'd think of it as more of a paradise, as long as I could keep the zombies out and I had more than one companion in there.

I'm sure it would get monotonous after a while, but with all the technology and crap that's out these days I'm sure I could keep myself occupied for a VERY long time.

[HLS]

the dawn 78' scenario had our 4 heroes holding up in a mall. would you consider it to be a paradise or a prison? Fran obviously thoght it was a prison while the men seemed enamored with the idea of having everything they could ever want at thier fingertips. Considering how much women love to shop don't you find that ironic?

I think it will be fun at first but it would get boring at a later time.

[darth los]

As would anything in life. Your spouse, playing the same game over and over. Variety is the spice of life. They could have been much worse off than they were and they still weren't happy. Human beings are never happy, they will invariably find a problem with something that's seemingly perfect. I saw DOD again last night and dammit if there's not one seen in the film where Fran is actually Happy.Ever. :mad:

[Debbieangel]

I think it will be fun at first but it would get boring at a later time.
Yea, but, think about your everyday life now...are you predictable? Do you have the same routine everyday? I think after time you would get used to it...the only thing that wrecks it ,is the zombies outside the mall and the thoughts that you cant go out go where you might want to go .
Right now if you were told u couldnt go or had something happen to you that debilatated you then you would have the WANT to go..I am saying like little kids being told no you cant go beyond your boundaries..thats when when you would want it most to go out.
Besides those things you could get used to being in one place...I am talking from experience I was paralyzed at one time in my life and I HAD to get used to being in one place or fall on my face. Geesh, I hope that was understandable.