TWD 3x01 "Seed" episode discussion **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

A bit premature, yes, but this is so folks can focus any known spoilers regarding the first episode of season three of our beloved zombie show in advance without them leaking into other threads where someone might come across them by accident - "Seed" is the name of 3x01.

Even still, PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS to discuss any known spoilers.

And as usual - Please be respectful of your fellow HPOTD members and TWD fans and keep discussion of the season two finale strictly within this thread - nobody likes spoilers - thanks for your cooperation, folks. :thumbsup:

[babomb]

Is the season premiere gonna be a 90 minute or 2 hour episode?

[kidgloves]

Is the season premiere gonna be a 90 minute or 2 hour episode?

As far as I know, its a standard episode length ie 60/46 mins.

[MinionZombie]

As far as I know, its a standard episode length ie 60/46 mins.

Dang, I was secretly hoping for a longer episode, but oh well.

[kidgloves]

Dang, I was secretly hoping for a longer episode, but oh well.

Same here. We do have to remember though that the Pilot was a one off and the Season 2 premiere was basically an accident.

[MinionZombie]

Giving this a bump as we're a mere couple of days away from the season premiere!

Set fangasms to "ready to burst". :shifty:

[Moon Knight]

I can't wait, man!

[botc]

whom ever watches it in the US please type out key points and message me the text i have dish and the wife is a bitch and wont switch.... any idea on how to watch it for FREE on line or am i paying for hulu? SO EFFING PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Moon Knight]

Holy shit!

[Trancelikestate]

Indeed

Total joygasm when Rick Salazarred Hershel's leg

[bassman]

Great episode. It almost feels like a different show and I'm digging it. The first five minutes or so was a perfect way to show how they've all adapted to the world in the seventh months since last season.

[Moon Knight]

Great episode. It almost feels like a different show and I'm digging it. The first five minutes or so was a perfect way to show how they've all adapted to the world in the seventh months since last season.

Yeah, everyone feels so different, I love it.

[ProfessorChaos]

man, the group was running like a well-oiled machine tonight. awesome to see them working together so efficiently, and rick sure is stepping into his role as the leader of the group.

i find it a bit hard to believe that it took them that long to find the prison, but i guess they kinda explained that during their conference over the map when they stopped along the road.

hershel getting bit was a bit unexpected, but i was glad they threw that in there as a little nod to what happened to dale since he was still alive during the prison storyline in the comics.

can't wait till next week...so glad this show is back and better than ever!

[Zombie Snack]

Awesome episode...I kept sensing little nods and paying homage to Night and Day of the dead. Season 3 looks very promising.

[rgc2005]

Good way to start the season.
Carl is.... growing up.
Rick hates dog food.
Herschel is now officially Dale.
Daryl is afraid of booty.
and I still hate Lori.

[clanglee]

Yes indeed. A most auspicious beginning. I love how the opening had no dialogue at all. And the zombie kills!!! That Gas Mask zombie!! When they tore off it's face, I had to back it up and watch it twice. So awesome.

[kidgloves]

It felt like a different show to me as well. Like someones pressed reset.
I recognize that Rick. Worrying about security. Getting things done.
The storming of the prison was epic. Huge zombie kill count there alone.
I also love the way they are showing more of the use of Michonnes walkers. They came and went very quickly in the comic but using them as mules and protection should open up some great scenes.

10/10 for me

[facestabber]

I still believe this is the greatest show in the history of history. What an amazing ride this show has been. The group is battle hardened and taking the prison was great effects by Nicotero's team. Would have loved a 1.5-2 hour opener but regardless, Bravo

Someone tell Maggie she looks sexy in a tank top but it may not go over well fighting the dead

[Neil]

Review over at Cinemablend - http://screenrant.com/walking-dead-season-3-seed/

Haven't read it myself as I haven't seen the episode yet - Grrrrrrr!

[bungi43]

I hope that they are going to equate Herschel to Dale, at least as far as chopping the leg off goes. It failed once in the comic too.

They were showing scenes going forward of a "cross tombstone", I wonder who that will end up being.

The only thing I am disappointed about so far in season 3: That it's not on HBO/Showtime and we have to watch commercials! I DVR it, but I can't watch it later, I have to watch it live!

[bassman]

Spoilers for the episode in the following two videos...

Inside 301:
V669fH-4VQg

Making 301:
mzvKCS0ma6c

[MinionZombie]

Okay, as I remarked when season two came to a close, I wasn't going to wait the five additional days to see it air in the UK - there is simply too many days between showings, and this is exactly the sort of show that can be spoiled in a heartbeat. It's happened more than once in the past, so I'm seeing it on the Monday - and I'll still officially support it on FX come Friday, but seeing as this is my favourite show on the air right now, I want to avoid spoilers like nobody's business, and also importantly - join the discussion here on HPOTD before it all peters out by Saturday morning.

Anyway - each week I'll surmise my thoughts as below...

WHAT WE LEARNED:
* After months on the road, surviving winter in the process, our merry band of walker bashers have developed into a team with a procedure for clearing a house and searching for survivors. However, while desperate, Rick won't allow them to stoop to eating dog food - a prospect that a much more hardened (and responsible) Carl doesn't take issue with.

* Michonne and Andrea have formed a tight duo (with accompanying chained zombies). This will be an interesting dynamic to follow as the season progresses, particularly when Woodbury is introduced (no doubt in 3x02).

* The gang have developed their own tools - silencers made out of torches (or flashlights to our American friends), locks made out of chains and climbing gear that are ideal for chainlink fences, and so on.

* Lori and Rick's relationship has been strained in the intervening months after the death of Shane and the birth of the "Ricktatorship".

* Is there a romance on the horizon for Daryl and Carol? Who knows, Norman Reedus claims that Daryl doesn't have much game, but it'll be an interesting relationship to watch develop. Daryl more than fills the hole left by Shane for Rick (as well as being an indispensible member of the team), and Carol has greatly improved her firearms skills (for the most part).

* Does Carl have a crush on Beth? He was eyeing up bunking with her until Hershel turned up.

* Undead prison guards are a bitch to deal with - difficult to kill, to say the least, they pose a greater risk than your average walker inside the prison gates. Effective techniques are the risky face-front assault where a knife is thrust up under the chin, or the safer rear-attack where the head is pushed forward and you insert your favourite sharp zombie killing tool into the brain stem. Tackling them also helps - the shield of the helmet proving to be a handy guard against falling into their gnashing jaws.

BEST GORE MOMENT:
In an episode full-to-the-brim with gore-gushing-geeks (more zombie kills in 3x01 than the entirety of season one apparently), the watermark was set at a high level with double decapitations, practiced headshots with silenced pistols, and sharp objects to inumerable rotted faces, there still arose a victor. The gas masked guard walker, whose face has putrefied inside the mask, has its face torn from the skull when the mask is removed while it's still live and kicking. Then a machete is just through an eye socket for the perfect deal sealer.

BEST TWIST ON THE COMICS:
Dale was killed off late into season two, so he never made it to the prison. However Hershel is still around and so it is he - not Dale - who suffers a walker bite to the lower leg, and a subsequent amputation.

THE CLIFFHANGER:
It's not just zombies inside the prison, there are living inmates too - five were glimpsed behind a fence in the canteen, including Lew Temple as Axel. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing him first utter the character's famous phrase "You feel me?" - not so much the bear-sized biker dude with a vast beard, but then again Otis was physically quite different in season two to his comic book counterpart.

...

Moving onto some of what you folks are chit-chatting about...


Great episode. It almost feels like a different show and I'm digging it. The first five minutes or so was a perfect way to show how they've all adapted to the world in the seventh months since last season.

It still feels like TWD to me - but I think the difference here is that the show, and overall story, has really hit its true stride. It was the same in the comics - the first two volumes was setting things up, just like seasons one and two, and it was the introduction of the prison arc in volume three (glimpsed as the volume two cliffhanger) that introduced how we all think of The Walking Dead. We forget there was set up, and we focus on the big set piece arcs - the TV show now has arrived at the real meat. :)

Aye - that house sweep was the perfect way to intro us. No talk, no fuss - this is an action they've performed often - and they are a unit. The simple mistakes and headless chicken moments of the early days are gone.


Good way to start the season.
Carl is.... growing up.
Rick hates dog food.
Herschel is now officially Dale.
Daryl is afraid of booty.
and I still hate Lori.

Carl was very impressive here - he's becoming a badass.

Daryl - watched the NYCC panel last night and Reedus was talking about how Daryl has very little in the way of "game" with the ladies, which was funny. I've always imagined his character as very adept at survival and the tough stuff - but anything involving emotion or intimacy particularly, is where he's totally lost. It was interesting here how he was flirting a bit with Carol (more initiated by her), but at the same time in a jokey way, so he's keeping her at a safe distance. A toe being dipped into the water perhaps? A fear of intimacy keeping him at bay?


It felt like a different show to me as well. Like someones pressed reset.
I recognize that Rick. Worrying about security. Getting things done.
The storming of the prison was epic. Huge zombie kill count there alone.
I also love the way they are showing more of the use of Michonnes walkers. They came and went very quickly in the comic but using them as mules and protection should open up some great scenes.

10/10 for me

I loved that little detail - almost didn't spot it - but saw the bags and thought that was a genius idea.


I still believe this is the greatest show in the history of history. What an amazing ride this show has been. The group is battle hardened and taking the prison was great effects by Nicotero's team. Would have loved a 1.5-2 hour opener but regardless, Bravo

Someone tell Maggie she looks sexy in a tank top but it may not go over well fighting the dead

Aye, I too would have loved an epic opening, but even still - it worked very well. We were given so much, but when it came to a close, you wanted much, much more - but we know we're going to get it this season. We're in for a real treat.

Also, yeah, Maggie is a knockout - but if I was Glen, I'd be covering her up with at least a shirt. All that naked flesh, while very nice in libidinous terms (and keeping cool in the heat), I'd be really wary of taking on walkers like that. I'd want a full covering of clothing - it's not easy to bite through clothing, the right kind at least. I'd want to be tooled up properly - T-Dog's got leather gloves (excellent idea), but then he still has bare arms.

I also thought the trip through the dark halls of the prison was really tense - a real haunted house type vibe. Excellently done - TWD consistently pulls of great use of tension.

...

Also - am I right in remembering that someone said months ago that The Talking Dead is available on that spoilerTV place (where the "Cold Storage" webisodes were upped for international viewing)? I'd love to watch, but can't find it - not even the bonus content is available (AMC, as they insist on doing, have locked it on YouTube to North America only :mad:).

[bassman]

I'm not trying to put you off, but last night's Talking Dead was a bust, imho. The questions and answers could have easily been more insightful, instead it was more of the basic stuff we already know...

[kidgloves]

I'm not trying to put you off, but last night's Talking Dead was a bust, imho. The questions and answers could have easily been more insightful, instead it was more of the basic stuff we already know...

This.

MZ
Don't you mean "You follow me". :D
Sorry i've been over at nitpick central (IMDB).

edit

With Daryl and Carol, I only see a friendship. I have girl friends who I talk to like that. The conversation can get very vulgar at times. Sometimes more so than with male friends.

[MinionZombie]

This.

MZ
Don't you mean "You follow me". :D
Sorry i've been over at nitpick central (IMDB).

edit

With Daryl and Carol, I only see a friendship. I have girl friends who I talk to like that. The conversation can get very vulgar at times. Sometimes more so than with male friends.

So how did you see The Talking Dead? :confused:

You're quite right - "you follow me" - I got it in my head the other way around. :o

Whether it'll be friends-with-benefits, or a relationship, or just friends - who knows - but there is definitely a deeper something there between them. Reedus spoke of how they're both familiar with being in abusive family situations (him with Merle, her with her scumbag husband), so they have an understanding of each other's situations, more than anyone else in the group.

Also - Hershel totally cock-blocked Carl. That made me laugh so hard. :lol::D:lol:

I'm definitely doing a meme for that. :D

[babomb]

My only gripe is that the prison feels more like a FEMA camp than a real prison. Those fences were shaky as hell. Prison fences are an order of magnitude stronger.

It's great how they're organizing and tooling up.

What's the deal with Andrea? Does she have the fever? Sleeping in a meat cooler?
And Carl's glued to that fucking hat. Hershel looks like one of the Grateful Dead from "Touch Of Gray", when he was writhing from that bite he looked like a fucking nutcase.

[kidgloves]

Also loved the fact that T-Dog got to utter the first word/noise of the season after hardly any involvement last season. I wouldn't be surprised if Mazzara intentionally wrote the cold open like that.

[Andy]

Everything MZ said.. absolutly loved this episode! what a strong opening, if they keep up this pace then this is gonna shit all over season 2!!

Loved how they had a tough time with the zombie guards in riot gear, I actually fell off the sofa to my knees when hershal was bit, totally unexpected and when i saw the inmates at the end.. total nerdgasm.

I just been reading up on the comics again to get me in the mood for the premier too!!


With Daryl and Carol, I only see a friendship. I have girl friends who I talk to like that. The conversation can get very vulgar at times. Sometimes more so than with male friends.

As a rule, if their names rhyme then they have to hook up.

:shifty:

[EvilNed]

I'm not jizzing my pants all over this as everyone else seems to be doing. Season 1 is still the peak of the show for me, Episodes 1 and 6 mostly. I liked how Season 1 seemed to focus on the apocalypse. That's the angle I want to explore. The end of times. There was terror and horror back then. Now it's all about strained relations and spectacular zombie kills.

Don't get me wrong, I'm overjoyed that we have a zombie TV-series on the air, and with a budget at that. But the show itself takes itself way to seriously. Breaking Bad, which is AMC's flagship and a much superior drama series, frequently throws in instances when we can sit back and laugh at the absurdism of the situation. One might argue that this is not necessary in a show like this, but it helps us relate to characters and to like and get closer to them. Everyone, every-single-one is walking around with a stone face non-stop. And everything is deeeeaaad serious. And I can appreciate that things are grim in this world, but why do these guys even want to keep on fighting?

I don't know... This series is just lacking that extra touch. I'm not charmed by the characters or their relations, but the show insists on spending a lot of time exploring those exact characters. And when it doesn't, we get prolonged action scenes when the heroes slaughted zombies. Honestly, at this point, I'm prepared to fast forward through those scenes cause they're kinda dull. Gory and spectacular ways to off zombies... Yay. That is literally the point of one too many scenes in this show. I can get that from italian zombie films, and that's where they belong.

Granted, the scene when they ventured out into the dark cell blocks to explore was great, but it was way too short and everything happened very fast. It didn't capitalize on anything that happened and all the events seem to suit the writing a little bit too much.

Oh well.

Overall, an OK episode, but to be honest, had this been the first episode I watched I probably wouldn't have watched the next one. But the show manages to reach instances of greatness on occasion, such as episodes 7-11 of season 2 and the better part of season 1.

[Cartma7546]

I don't know if anyone else saw it, but that first walker that Carl puts down in the house looked like the walker that bit Cholo in Land. Greg reuses the dead, going green I like it.

[babomb]

I would've liked to see them going house to house in that 7 months between seasons. That's one of the things I always thought would be the most interesting during an apocalypse.
But seeing them developing into a well formed unit is another aspect of an apocalypse that interests me.
I could care less about the gore and spectacular kills also. To be honest, I think that aspect is way overdone. The walkers have too much of a cartoonish look, which is further exaggerated during kill scenes. I wish they would step that down a notch. I don't understand why they chose that specific aspect to adhere so strictly to the comics. They're so free about straying from the source material in so many other aspects. But they choose the single aspect that should be dialed down from the comics, and vamp it up even higher.

[shootemindehead]

Thought the first episode was great and if it's an indication of where they're going, then I'm a happy camper.

[facestabber]

I would've liked to see them going house to house in that 7 months between seasons. That's one of the things I always thought would be the most interesting during an apocalypse.
But seeing them developing into a well formed unit is another aspect of an apocalypse that interests me.
I could care less about the gore and spectacular kills also. To be honest, I think that aspect is way overdone. The walkers have too much of a cartoonish look, which is further exaggerated during kill scenes. I wish they would step that down a notch. I don't understand why they chose that specific aspect to adhere so strictly to the comics. They're so free about straying from the source material in so many other aspects. But they choose the single aspect that should be dialed down from the comics, and vamp it up even higher.

The house clearing was cool but they showed us how they did it. I think showing the same tactics over and over would get boring. And for time constraints of the show alone the story needs to move forward.

Illinois Valley huh? Lasalle/Peru area?

[babomb]

Illinois Valley huh? Lasalle/Peru area? Right outside Spring Valley. You been here?

[Neil]

Enjoyed the episode...

I thought the only let down was Herschel getting chomped. The zombie just sitting there still for several minutes given all the noise and commotion seemed a bit contrived.

Would have preferred:-
- a legless zombie to have crawled out of an open door next to him and chomped his leg?
- a previously thwacked zombie on the ground to have slowly come around. And to have seen it twitching in a quick shot prior to it then coming around enough to chomp.


But anyway, generally a good episode if a little thick on action, and thin on drama... The drama is no doubt now about to hit the fan :)

- - - Updated - - -


I would've liked to see them going house to house in that 7 months between seasons. That's one of the things I always thought would be the most interesting during an apocalypse.
I think they did a good job with quickly getting us up to speed. The group are obviously now used to getting into locations, clearing them, and grabbing what they can. They're also clearly hitting rock bottom with the indication that even dog food is deemed attractive now.

[JonOfTheShred]

I loved this episode. Felt so much closer to the tone of the comics, if only because so much of the comics was IN the prison. But damn...several moments in the show I did a triumphant fist pump.

This episode could have used an extra half hour to an hour to really explore the taking over of the prison. Maybe an extra 15 - 30 minutes in the intro of them traveling around, then an extra half hour on the end with them clearing out walkers. Considering the ratings, they should basically open each season / half season with a MOVIE - a 2 hour spectacle - or at least mirror the length of the pilot. :B

I think them developing into bad-asses post farm should have been the second half of Season 2. Not enough zombie movies follow a group as they TRAVEL, it's always about holing up. But the prison is so badass in the comic, I still can't wait for the rest of the season.

[Zombie Snack]

I lived in Lasalle and in depue back in the 1990's. I drove a truck for a company located very near Sapp Bros truck stop. The trucks had MCT on them.

[MinionZombie]

It's meme time - knocked these two up last night:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2tIxmC_NpHg/UH00hkgJHuI/AAAAAAAAAuY/_cGr1HzJ4Io/s1600/Hershel_Cock_Block_Beth_Carl_Prison_The_Walking_De ad_Season_3_Meme_DeadShed.jpg

and...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GCxkErY3z_U/UH00uRFXePI/AAAAAAAAAug/RvMwZl0yBFc/s1600/Maggie_Gas_Mask_Zombie_The_Walking_Dead_Season_3_M eme_DeadShed.jpg

:D

Now onto more of what you good people have been saying...


Also loved the fact that T-Dog got to utter the first word/noise of the season after hardly any involvement last season. I wouldn't be surprised if Mazzara intentionally wrote the cold open like that.

I didn't notice that. I'll have to look again when it's on FX come Friday. Maybe a cheeky little nod & wink from Mazzara. :lol:


Loved how they had a tough time with the zombie guards in riot gear.

As a rule, if their names rhyme then they have to hook up.

1) Agreed. A good way to spice up your common or garden zombie. I'm looking forward to seeing our group wearing some riot gear to take on zombies - we got a smidge of that, but I'm talking fully decked out and taking names.

2) I saw an IGN interview with Michael Rooker and he kept saying "Merle and Derle" ... make of that what you will, in that case. :shifty::lol::shifty:


The house clearing was cool but they showed us how they did it. I think showing the same tactics over and over would get boring. And for time constraints of the show alone the story needs to move forward.

Big old agreement on that. It was a very efficient way of getting across everything we needed to know about their current situation, as well as how they'd been surviving on the road for months - and all without dialogue. Plus, it would have been time & cost prohibitive to have numerous houses and locations to shoot such a montage in. Montages take a lot of resources to put together, so if you can get across the same info in one location - do it.


Enjoyed the episode...

I thought the only let down was Herschel getting chomped. The zombie just sitting there still for several minutes given all the noise and commotion seemed a bit contrived.

Would have preferred:-
- a legless zombie to have crawled out of an open door next to him and chomped his leg?
- a previously thwacked zombie on the ground to have slowly come around. And to have seen it twitching in a quick shot prior to it then coming around enough to chomp.

But anyway, generally a good episode if a little thick on action, and thin on drama... The drama is no doubt now about to hit the fan :)

I was thinking about that walker, and perhaps it's a case of they each respond in different ways - some are a bit quicker to catch on, they have more of their wits about them. The first time they pass it, they do so quickly, and perhaps that merely sparked a little juice in it's brain but they'd passed by before it really caught on - then when Hershel swung by a second time - right on top of it practically - it suddenly caught on to what was happening in front of it and finally reacted/engaged.

If I remember correctly, it was a legless walker that performed this same bite (to a different character) during the prison arc in the comics - underneath a car, again IIRC.

As for drama - I think by this point we're very invested in the characters, so we have a greater understanding, a lot of ground work has been conducted, so we don't have to lay it all out at length - we can be more efficient. However, there will also be a want to continue the epic finale of season two into the opening of season three to hook people in, which is good creative and business sense (you want people to see your product). I'd imagine we'll delve deeper into all these things in future episodes - e.g. Michonne and Andrea who only got two scenes in this episode, will no doubt get a lot more in 3x02. Also, by the very nature of taking over the prison, they have to do it themselves in a quick manner - so likewise the pace of the show will be much quicker and punchier. It's more about achieving a goal which will allow them to rest up - at which point their minds can turn to other things (e.g. Lori's worries about her baby - a good conversation, I felt - those would be very legitimate concerns in a zombie apocalypse where everyone is infected).


But damn...several moments in the show I did a triumphant fist pump.

This episode could have used an extra half hour to an hour to really explore the taking over of the prison. Maybe an extra 15 - 30 minutes in the intro of them traveling around, then an extra half hour on the end with them clearing out walkers. Considering the ratings, they should basically open each season / half season with a MOVIE - a 2 hour spectacle - or at least mirror the length of the pilot. :B

I had many grin-inducing moments, particularly the gas mask zombie with the putrefied face - to quote myself: "HAHA! NICE!" with a massive grin on my face. :lol:

As they always say, leave them wanting more - but yes, a longer episode would have been most welcome. But I suppose with so much action and so on, they have to balance their budget. Mazzara did speak of it, but it would have meant them adding a 17th episode to the order, which would have - as he said - messed around with the pacing of the episodes they had laid out (a link was posted elsewhere by a fellow member to an interview with Mazzara). So that makes sense - but as a total TWD nerd, yeah sure, I'd have loved a two hour premiere. :D

[bassman]

Mazzara did speak of it, but it would have meant them adding a 17th episode to the order, which would have - as he said - messed around with the pacing of the episodes they had laid out ....

That's one of the biggest reasons Season Two's progression felt a bit unbalanced at times.


My only real gripe for this episode was the conversation between Lori and Hershel. I understand that the character likely would worry about the baby dying and possibly returning as a walker, but I seriously hope it stays at just that - A frightened character. They mentioned in the S2 commentary that they had already considered a zombie baby on the highway, gave up on it, and might use it in future seasons. Surely they wouldn't play a Dawn04 with Lori?....

[Andy]

One thing that does bother me slightly about the TV series (compared to the comics) is how small the group really is now.. they're not leaving alot of room for them to kill main characters while keeping the dynamic of the group realistic if you get what i mean.

I mean in the TV show, in the prison you have rick, lori, carl, carol, glenn, maggie, beth, daryl and herschel.

In the comics in the prison, you have rick, lori, carl, carol, sophia, andrea, dale, glenn, tyreese, julie, chris, michonne, herschel, otis, maggie, allen.. Correct me if ive missed anyone?

The group just seems far too small to realistically survive a zombie situation to me.

[facestabber]

Right outside Spring Valley. You been here?

So you were/are a Hall Red Devil. I'm from Mendota.

Thought it was cool to see carol with AK47s and Hershel with an M4. Assuming those were found clearing houses. I don't recall seeing shotguns so I'm guessing they used up the ammo. Would have been nice to have a 12 gauge with 7 rnd mag on point with buckshot clearing those halls.

[AnxietyDilemma]

I mean in the TV show, in the prison you have rick, lori, carl, carol, glenn, maggie, beth, daryl and herschel.



And T-Dog

[Andy]

And T-Dog

Sorry how could i forget t-dog!! :lol:

My point is still valid though, the group feels far too small now, even with the introduction of the inmates.

[EvilNed]

T-Dog had more lines in this episode than in the entirety of season 2.

[Mike70]

well, i have decided to give this show one last and final chance. i did enjoy the new episode quite a bit with one exception: who in their right mind exposes the only person in their group with advanced medical knowledge to danger? that was dumb as a box of hand rubbed rocks. Hershel would be under an acrylic dome with air holes in it until he's needed.

at least they knew enough not to break formation in the prison yard scene.

the one thing i find most intriguing is that the character that i would not bother 5 mins of my time with in real life, is the one that i find myself most interested in and the one i'd most want protecting my back: Daryl. he's a redneck peckerwood and there's no doubt about that but in a situation like this where social distinctions breakdown, there is no one else in the group i'd trust more.

[rgc2005]

the one thing i find most intriguing is that the character that i would not bother 5 mins of my time with in real life, is the one that i find myself most interested in and the one i'd most want protecting my back: Daryl. he's a redneck peckerwood and there's no doubt about that but in a situation like this were social distinctions breakdown, there is no one else in the group i'd trust more.

Clint Eastwood's Commander in the movie "Heart Break Ridge" summed it up. "Gunny, you should be locked in a box with a "Break Glass In Case Of War" sign".
Societies tend to love their warriors/protectors but really don't want them too close to home or dating their daughters.
I wish I was a shrink and understood the rationale.

[facestabber]

well, i have decided to give this show one last and final chance. i did enjoy the new episode quite a bit with one exception: who in their right mind exposes the only person in their group with advanced medical knowledge to danger? that was dumb as a box of hand rubbed rocks. Hershel would be under an acrylic dome with air holes in it until he's needed.

at least they knew enough not to break formation in the prison yard scene.

the one thing i find most intriguing is that the character that i would not bother 5 mins of my time with in real life, is the one that i find myself most interested in and the one i'd most want protecting my back: Daryl. he's a redneck peckerwood and there's no doubt about that but in a situation like this were social distinctions breakdown, there is no one else in the group i'd trust more.

Last and final chance? I realize TWD isnt a show for everybody but for someone that posts on a zombie forum, I wouldnt expect that. And I'm not attacking you by any means. I grew up on Romero and am so disappointed in what he has produced since Day. Faults aside Dawn04 kickstarted the zombie genre again. It was dead, gone, the past. So Romero finally gets funds for Land and I cant help but laugh and cringe as I watch. Spoilers aside stepping into a theater with a George Romero zombie flick had me beyond excited. I left shaking my head. Listening to laughs in the audience as Big Dummy grunted his way to revenge against the oppressive Republican regime. He blew it. And its just went down hill. Romero's focus on politics is so over done.

Though I will always pay respect to Romero for his early vision and trilogy. TWD has elevated and blown Romero out of the water. They took his monster and created a great story/vision.

[babomb]

So you were/are a Hall Red Devil. I'm from Mendota.

Thought it was cool to see carol with AK47s and Hershel with an M4. Assuming those were found clearing houses. I don't recall seeing shotguns so I'm guessing they used up the ammo. Would have been nice to have a 12 gauge with 7 rnd mag on point with buckshot clearing those halls. Yeah, I was a Hall Red Devil/Hog Soldier, 1991-1994.
I was surprised to see hershel with that M4. I thought maybe he got it from the guard tower. But it showed Maggie grab that Axe from the woodpile at that house. So clearly they've become adept at foraging.


My point is still valid though, the group feels far too small now, even with the introduction of the inmates. They're really gonna need to keep an eye on those women with inmates roaming about. On the same token, they could sure use an alliance with the inmates when the conflict with the Gov steps up.

At least this year nobody has to put up with Carl's shit except Hershel, Hershel also has to deal with Lori's shit. That poor old man!! He's this years shit magnet. He's either gonna die, or be the crazy dude that can't leave the safe zone so he has to put up with Lori, Carl, probably alot of Carl chasing Beth. We already know Carl has the ability to be everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Everywhere there's a problem, Carl mysteriously appears on scene, while Lori runs around trying to find him. So Hershel's either gonna be laying around healing from the amputation, or dying because it didn't prevent him from the infection.

[Mike70]

Last and final chance? I realize TWD isnt a show for everybody but for someone that posts on a zombie forum, I wouldnt expect that. And I'm not attacking you by any means.

i have not been able to get into the show because some of the characters really annoy me. Andrea is at the top of that list. i'm all about identity. other than Daryl, i have not been able to connect with most of the people in the show and that is a major stumbling block.

but i haven't given up. i keep trying and it will either click or not.

just for sake of clarity: i really don't care for modern tv or for shows that are driven by one over arcing story. the exception to this is B5. shows like that usually descend into cliches of "us vs. them" or "who is the real enemy." that sort of thing usually doesn't do much for me. that is why i am a big fan of 60s and 70s tv where the eps are more or less unconnected to one another. i much prefer it that way.

[Legion2213]

This was sick season opener, love the little bit of time lapse and the way the group has learned how to survive with greater cohesion.

Did anybody notice Rick and a few other really loving the butchery in this ep? This show is by no means perfect, but in a sea of absolute TV crap, it is a diamond floating in a sea of turds and probably the best show in town (along with Breaking Bad)...oh, and lots of zombies get killed regularly, so it's a win-win as far as I am concerned! :)

[rgc2005]

Andrea has proven to me that even in a zombie apocalypse a vain enough woman will continue to bleach/frost her hair and make botox appointments.
I cannot believe in that character no matter how hard they try to toughen her up. If she and Michonne run into similar fates in Woodbury as graphic novel Michonne does I hope they take the chance to write her off.
Let Beth grow into the Andrea we all know and expect.

[babomb]

I cannot believe in that character no matter how hard they try to toughen her up. If she and Michonne run into similar fates in Woodbury as graphic novel Michonne does I hope they take the chance to write her off.
Let Beth grow into the Andrea we all know and expect.
That would be great!

[facestabber]

Yeah, I was a Hall Red Devil/Hog Soldier, 1991-1994.
I was surprised to see hershel with that M4. I thought maybe he got it from the guard tower. But it showed Maggie grab that Axe from the woodpile at that house. So clearly they've become adept at foraging.

Well I'll be damned. We then battled at Doenier and Nesti stadium. I was in the trenches for the Trojans from 92-95. Small world. Hall sure misses Vicini.

Sure hope the group can replenish ammo at prison. Should have some heavy hitting .308 and M14's to go with. Ofcourse .223 with Hershel's M4 would be nice

[Andy]

They're really gonna need to keep an eye on those women with inmates roaming about. On the same token, they could sure use an alliance with the inmates when the conflict with the Gov steps up.

Just out of interest, have you read the comics? Do you know where they go with the inmates there?

[babomb]

Well I'll be damned. We then battled at Doenier and Nesti stadium. I was in the trenches for the Trojans from 92-95. Small world. Hall sure misses Vicini.

Sure hope the group can replenish ammo at prison. Should have some heavy hitting .308 and M14's to go with. Ofcourse .223 with Hershel's M4 would be nice Hall sucks now! They can't seem to win a friggin game. They had a kid die on the field this year. Kids are too spoiled these days.

- - - Updated - - -


Just out of interest, have you read the comics? Do you know where they go with the inmates there? Yeah. But things are so different in the show that I can't see it working out anywhere near the same way.
A couple possible theories though:
Beth alone dies at the hands of the deranged inmate, as i can't see that being Maggies fate.
Because:
Lori dies in the prison, and Glenn and Maggie take the baby because Rick and Carl take off after the final assault by the woodbury forces.
But really, it's very hard to say what will actually happen because of the differences between the comics and show.

For instance:
Is Michonne gonna hook up with Daryl, making Carol try to off herself? And does she try to get into a threesome with Rick and Lori
That doesn't seem likely. But who knows?

What about you? Any predictions?

[rgc2005]

In the comics their prison stay is extended and full of personal drama, loss, sex/lust, deviancy, murder and greed.
Some of the storylines are now impossible because the character mix is different and very shallow.
The current tv group would not survive that arc without doubling the size of the regular cast.
The actress that plays Lori has said numerous times that Lori should die by the end of this season or the beginning of the next.
If this group ever leaves the prison Lori's baby will die. There is no way they leave that prison voluntarily and living on the road with an infant, even toddler, would be next to impossible.
***Not to mention the industry child labor rules when using small children in productions.


Yeah, I was a Hall Red Devil/Hog Soldier, 1991-1994.
I was surprised to see hershel with that M4. I thought maybe he got it from the guard tower. But it showed Maggie grab that Axe from the woodpile at that house. So clearly they've become adept at foraging.

Well I'll be damned. We then battled at Doenier and Nesti stadium. I was in the trenches for the Trojans from 92-95. Small world. Hall sure misses Vicini.

Sure hope the group can replenish ammo at prison. Should have some heavy hitting .308 and M14's to go with. Ofcourse .223 with Hershel's M4 would be nice

[bungi43]

I would've liked to see them going house to house in that 7 months between seasons. That's one of the things I always thought would be the most interesting during an apocalypse.
But seeing them developing into a well formed unit is another aspect of an apocalypse that interests me.
I could care less about the gore and spectacular kills also. To be honest, I think that aspect is way overdone. The walkers have too much of a cartoonish look, which is further exaggerated during kill scenes. I wish they would step that down a notch. I don't understand why they chose that specific aspect to adhere so strictly to the comics. They're so free about straying from the source material in so many other aspects. But they choose the single aspect that should be dialed down from the comics, and vamp it up even higher.

I think the reason we didn't see this is the same reason Sophia bit it so early on the show: Children aging in real life as actors vs the timeline on the show. The kid playing Carl in real life is growing up/getting older, so this was an easy way to advance multiple months of Lori's pregnancy while also allowing Carl's TV show age to keep up with his aging in real life.

If they don't do some creative timing like this in the show, they'll end up having to kill Carl off. And as annoying as he is, I think he's one of those guys you have to keep around because of all the stuff he does/his importance in the comics. I get Kirkman wanting to change it up a bit (and I like that too), but I think Carl is one of the characters you can't kill off.

[Mike70]

Andrea has proven to me that even in a zombie apocalypse a vain enough woman will continue to bleach/frost her hair and make botox appointments.


:lol: that's enough to make one snort soda out of at least one nostril.

to cut back to the comics for one second: they start in Cynthiana, KY. that is a real town in northern KY. it ls less than 50 miles from Cincinnati which is a major hub of the federal govt. (including the National Institute of Health, the CDC, the Dept. of Defense) and the largest city in this region. no one from this part of the country would head off to Atlanta, a nearly 500 mile journey. I-75 would be a frickin madhouse and the other ways south from here require you to cross a mountain range. it just never made sense to me. i guess Atlanta was a simple opt out because everyone knows the CDC headquarters is there.

[bassman]

to cut back to the comics for one second: they start in Cynthiana, KY. that is a real town in northern KY. it ls less than 50 miles from Cincinnati which is a major hub of the federal govt. (including the National Institute of Health, the CDC, the Dept. of Defense) and the largest city in this region. no one from this part of the country would head off to Atlanta, a nearly 500 mile journey. I-75 would be a frickin madhouse and the other ways south from here require you to cross a mountain range. it just never made sense to me. i guess Atlanta was a simple opt out because everyone knows the CDC headquarters is there.

Actually, Kirkman has said the CDC never even occured to him when writing those early issues. Atlanta was basically chosen by opening a map, seeing Atlanta, and saying "Okay.....Rick will go to Atlanta". This is also the reason the group hits a substantial snow storm after leaving the city. If Kirkman knew enough about Georgia, he would have known that snowfall here is very rare and rarely accumulates or stays around for more than a day or so.

Thankfully Darabont changed Rick's hometown to "Kings County, Georgia"(reference to Stephen King) in the TV series. Now it makes more sense to go to Atlanta....

[Mike70]

Actually, Kirkman has said the CDC never even occured to him when writing those early issues. Atlanta was basically chosen by opening a map, seeing Atlanta, and saying "Okay.....Rick will go to Atlanta". This is also the reason the group hits a substantial snow storm after leaving the city. If Kirkman knew enough about Georgia, he would have known that snowfall here is very rare and rarely accumulates or stays around for more than a day or so.

Thankfully Darabont changed Rick's hometown to "Kings County, Georgia"(reference to Stephen King) in the TV series. Now it makes more sense to go to Atlanta....

Huh. i did not know that. just picked it out of a map. welp, that's as good a reason as any. if they had stayed with the original location it would've been rather ridiculous. a 500 mile journey under those conditions would be, quite literally, a death trip. i found the snow storm in the comics suspect too. it doesn't snow much south of here unless you are up in the mountains and even there it doesn't snow much.

thanks for the info, dude. that's always sort of bothered me when i was reading the comics.

[Andy]

Hall sucks now! They can't seem to win a friggin game. They had a kid die on the field this year. Kids are too spoiled these days.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. But things are so different in the show that I can't see it working out anywhere near the same way.
A couple possible theories though:
Beth alone dies at the hands of the deranged inmate, as i can't see that being Maggies fate.
Because:
Lori dies in the prison, and Glenn and Maggie take the baby because Rick and Carl take off after the final assault by the woodbury forces.
But really, it's very hard to say what will actually happen because of the differences between the comics and show.

For instance:
Is Michonne gonna hook up with Daryl, making Carol try to off herself? And does she try to get into a threesome with Rick and Lori
That doesn't seem likely. But who knows?

What about you? Any predictions?

Some really interesting points, i think your first spoiler could be bang on actually, i think they will do that story tbh becuase its such a huge, shocking story that they would be silly to include the inmates and not go there.

I Was discussing this with MZ and i think the only point we made that you missed was that

One of the inmates has to be dexter and a similar struggle has to occur in the prison yard

Oh yeah, and

As there are 5 inmates instead of 4 as in the comic, we are hoping one of them is tyreese :D

[bassman]

Oh yeah, and

As there are 5 inmates instead of 4 as in the comic, we are hoping one of them is tyreese :D

He's not one of them...

http://i46.tinypic.com/xqddhe.png

[MinionZombie]

He's not one of them...

http://i46.tinypic.com/xqddhe.png

Well that shoots that theory out the window! :p

[Andy]

Well, damn.

[facestabber]

I've never been a comic guy so I havent read TWD comics. Reading through some of the spoilers and learning comic fates has me concerned. I have found myself particularly fond of this group. Well most of em anyway. So I am seeking the opinions of people on this board. We all know Kirkman is very proud of 'no one is safe'. Two characters I like the most are Rick and Daryl. Glen a close 3rd. Im concerned what people think their fates will be? I respect the character of Rick and well we have the same profession so I want him to survive. Can the show continue without him?

Daryl Dixon I understand wasnt in the comic so its a blank slate there. I ran into Reedus in Boston after the 3rd episode aired in 2010. Guy was as cool as can be. Took turns buying shots and talked Boondock and TWD. He actually told me spoilers without hesitation. I'm really pulling for his character to survive this. I had been hoping for a Boondock Saints 3 but not anymore if it would require his exit from TWD. I fear he may go down as a self sacrifice to save the group. Any thoughts/opinions I'd love to read.

[Moon Knight]

I would doubt that they would kill off Rick but Damn I would be so pissed if they kill off Daryl. The big catch about the comics are is that really ANYBODY can go.

[Wyldwraith]

I've gotta agree the "hibernating Walker" that chomped Herschel seemed rather hinky.
It was like it popped awake and reacted WAY too quickly and in too coordinated a fashion. I mean the sequence goes: Walker's eyes open, head is lunging forwards almost as the eyes open, teeth sink into Herschel's lower leg.

By comparison, Rick got WAY more reaction-room with the tank-Walker. I wouldn't have minded if it rose up behind Herschel and got him from some angle, but the way the shot worked it seemed like the Walker didn't even need to see/hear/process what was happening. It's mouth was just a flesh-seeking missile. That's a fairly minor gripe on the whole however. I def. liked the season 3 premiere.

[Andy]

I've never been a comic guy so I havent read TWD comics. Reading through some of the spoilers and learning comic fates has me concerned. I have found myself particularly fond of this group. Well most of em anyway. So I am seeking the opinions of people on this board. We all know Kirkman is very proud of 'no one is safe'. Two characters I like the most are Rick and Daryl. Glen a close 3rd. Im concerned what people think their fates will be? I respect the character of Rick and well we have the same profession so I want him to survive. Can the show continue without him?

Daryl Dixon I understand wasnt in the comic so its a blank slate there. I ran into Reedus in Boston after the 3rd episode aired in 2010. Guy was as cool as can be. Took turns buying shots and talked Boondock and TWD. He actually told me spoilers without hesitation. I'm really pulling for his character to survive this. I had been hoping for a Boondock Saints 3 but not anymore if it would require his exit from TWD. I fear he may go down as a self sacrifice to save the group. Any thoughts/opinions I'd love to read.

Rick is probably the closest to a 'safe character' as the walking dead is pretty much ricks story.. in the comics at least, 100 issues in and rick is still one of the few remaining original characters. Of course, kirkman has said he'll die one day and story will shift to focus on carl but it hasnt happened yet.

In fact, i think the only remaining original characters at issue 100 are rick, carl and andrea.

[Legion2213]

I've gotta agree the "hibernating Walker" that chomped Herschel seemed rather hinky.
It was like it popped awake and reacted WAY too quickly and in too coordinated a fashion. I mean the sequence goes: Walker's eyes open, head is lunging forwards almost as the eyes open, teeth sink into Herschel's lower leg.

By comparison, Rick got WAY more reaction-room with the tank-Walker. I wouldn't have minded if it rose up behind Herschel and got him from some angle, but the way the shot worked it seemed like the Walker didn't even need to see/hear/process what was happening. It's mouth was just a flesh-seeking missile. That's a fairly minor gripe on the whole however. I def. liked the season 3 premiere.

I liked the way the tank walker reactivated, it was neat, all they had to do with Hersh was have him hover around for a few seconds with his back to that prison one and they could have played it much the same, because you have a good point, he did react rather quickly, he was less "hibernation" more "bear trap"

As always though, I'll forgive this show a lot of sins...they break new ground every eppisode. Still trying to get my head around the fact that I have a genuinely good zombie TV series to watch!

[MinionZombie]

As always though, I'll forgive this show a lot of sins...they break new ground every eppisode. Still trying to get my head around the fact that I have a genuinely good zombie TV series to watch!

It's the treat that keeps on giving, is TWD. I think back to the heady days of season one - an innocent time, if you will - and it's positively quaint. Now we've got a fantastic leviathon on our hands and it's a real joy to see it grow in quality and popularity.

I'm sure that we here on HPOTD have far more time to be nitpicking over the motion of a single zombie in one scene of an entire episode, than those involved in making the entire episode. They've got a lot of things to be paying attention to, so they have less time - however I do think that the zombies are more consistent than they were in season one. I think they've learned as the show has continued how to train the zombie extras better - people who might not have seen any zombie movies themselves. If all the zombies were played by hardcore zedheads like ourselves, then I'm sure we'd be going the full DeNiro off our own backs - or you know what, we too might make a minor mistake in movement too.

As a mate of mine said, I don't care if it looks dead, I'd be stabbing corpses in the face left, right and centre just to be safe. :elol:

It's a minor transgression. A slight tweaking in future could solve it, but you're always going to have an element of rug-pulling when it comes to TV or film - it's like when someone sees an enemy coming and they hide, and a split-second later the bad guy enters facing exactly in the direction of the hero - so in real life the would have easily spotted them, but because they were out-of-frame, there's a short-cut, a sleight of hand, going on in that they 'saw nothing, guv, honest' (I was reminded of this when watching On Her Majesty's Secret Service last night).

Anyway - we're getting close to 3x02 now - who's pumped?! :hyper:

[JonOfTheShred]

One thing that does bother me slightly about the TV series (compared to the comics) is how small the group really is now.. they're not leaving alot of room for them to kill main characters while keeping the dynamic of the group realistic if you get what i mean.

I mean in the TV show, in the prison you have rick, lori, carl, carol, glenn, maggie, beth, daryl and herschel.

In the comics in the prison, you have rick, lori, carl, carol, sophia, andrea, dale, glenn, tyreese, julie, chris, michonne, herschel, otis, maggie, allen.. Correct me if ive missed anyone?

The group just seems far too small to realistically survive a zombie situation to me.

Definitely an interesting point. But I did notice there was a 5th prisoner in that last shot. Maybe they'll have even more inmates elsewhere?

[shootemindehead]

There's really no excuse for bad zombie choreography though, especially from a production that employed a "zombie school". In the end it's just bad writing, like the zombie super smell fiasco from series 1, which has been dropped like the stupid idea that it was.

These issues can be remedied on the spot during shooting. An easy alternative would have been to have Hershel trip over the dormant zed and then get said aed take a chomp while the old lad is down and dazed. That would be a better scene than having the corpse ninja it's gob onto his calf a far easier to believe.

[MinionZombie]

There's really no excuse for bad zombie choreography though, especially from a production that employed a "zombie school". In the end it's just bad writing, like the zombie super smell fiasco from series 1, which has been dropped like the stupid idea that it was.

These issues can be remedied on the spot during shooting. An easy alternative would have been to have Hershel trip over the dormant zed and then get said aed take a chomp while the old lad is down and dazed. That would be a better scene than having the corpse ninja it's gob onto his calf a far easier to believe.

Methinks Mazzara & Co should hire we HPOTD'ers as zombie consultants ... sure, we'd probably spend most of our time nerding out over KNB, trying to be best mates with all the cast, pestering Gale Anne Hurd into letting us be zombie extras, and hitting on Lauren Cohan at every opportunity - but when the planets align and the 1% of the time we'd actually be of use comes to pass, it would be our time to shine, and shine oh-so-brightly we would, right guys? ;)

[shootemindehead]

"Shine" Def:

transitive verb
1.
a : to cause to emit light
b : to throw or direct the light of

2. past & past part shined : to make bright by polishing <shined his shoes>

3. Irritate the crap out of people who have real jobs to do.

Oxford English Dictionary (2013 Edition)

[Ragnarr]

Didn't like the "I'm the pretending to be DEAD dead zombie who has kung-fu lightning reaction time when an old man's leg gets close to me". Reminds me of the zombie who suddenly jumps Roger in the original Dawn. The other annoying aspect is the razor sharp zombie bite. Goes through clothing with just one chomp lol. They could've done that scene better imo.

[Wyldwraith]

I agree,
And while im willing to forgive much since zombies feel no pain and have no concern for shattering numerous teeth, going through blue-jeans denim like it's a paper hospital gown...and doing it so OBVIOUSLY because the Walker comes away with a neat bite-sized chunk which includes the denim....That scene IS important, because a significant character is dramatically impacted by said Walker's behavior. This is a bit more pivotal than our Season 1 debates on lurching-run-speed zombies. I got the exact same "trap sprung" vibe, like it was an automatic reaction that required no processing or coordination when it comes to that entire attack sequence. As others have said, there were a variety of easily-implemented and much more believable explanations they could have written in regarding Herschel.

I just don't want to see it become a trend. I'm totally ok with Walkers being "stunned" for a few seconds before they begin to act again when headshot, but not sufficiently enough to terminate them, and I loved the tank-zombie hibernating scene too. The thing is, TWD is about caring about the human characters. So if you do something obvious enough it can draw the viewer's actual attention away from the consequences of the event being witnessed onscreen, it's officially gone from being a minor nitpick to bad direction IMO. After all, no one had a gun to said director's head. They could have just done a re-shoot of those few seconds of the sequence.

I mean, take a Season 2 example. Carl messing with the mired-in zombie that subsequently tears itself free, almost gets Carl, and ends up being the Walker that takes out Dale. Would you care if the Walker struggles as Carl watched it looked deliberately ineffectual, and when it was time for it to "break free of the mud" the ground parted with the ease of perforated paper being torn? I think most people would. The attack on Herschel is no different, nor any less significant IMO. That, and I actually like Herschel-the-character these days.

[krisvds]

So, TWD is back with a healthy mix of good/bad.

Some of the dialogue (what little there was in this episode) is still very stilted. And the lightning reflexes zombie biting Herschel was just lazy.
I'm still concerned about Michone as well: all that samurai bullshit was annoying in the comics and with their new found focus on action that might become a bit of a problem here as well. Michone should be more than adolescent fan service. I guess we'll see in the next few episodes when things settle down and there's more room for drama.

Apart from that; great set design on the prison. Very atmospheric. Some great gags and stellar F/X & make up work. Promising first episode.

[bassman]

:lol:

Of course it's normal to have issues with any show or movie, but I find it hilarious how fans are picking TWD apart to it's absolute core. After all, we're talking about a ZOMBIE TV SHOW. This is something we craved and never thought would happen. Anyone else remember the nineties when there was no zombie movies or media at all? We're riding a high wave of zombie fandom and all we can muster up is complaints. The geeks have indeed inherited the Earth....

[krisvds]

Well, I like the show, a lot.
Doesn't make me blind to some of it's shortcomings. That has little to do with nitpicking. Unless you count characterisation and dialogue as unimportant?

Still, don't get me wrong, fantastic show.

[kidgloves]

:lol:

Of course it's normal to have issues with any show or movie, but I find it hilarious how fans are picking TWD apart to it's absolute core. After all, we're talking about a ZOMBIE TV SHOW. This is something we craved and never thought would happen. Anyone else remember the nineties when there was no zombie movies or media at all? We're riding a high wave of zombie fandom and all we can muster up is complaints. The geeks have indeed inherited the Earth....

This.

People also have to remember that the tv production process is much much faster than movies.
Each episode is shot in 8 days so you have to let some things fly.

[rongravy]

Finding Michonne's double decapitation a bit silly, but the only real gripe I've had so far the whole series is the smell episode. I can overlook alot of things, but that was something that bothered me. Glad it hasn't been broken back out in full force again.

[MinionZombie]

This.

People also have to remember that the tv production process is much much faster than movies.
Each episode is shot in 8 days so you have to let some things fly.

^^^
This too. I'm with Bassman and kidgloves.

Yes, a nitpick can be pointed out in a "would be even better in future, if..." context, but the sheer nitpickiness sometimes does get a bit overcooked.

In terms of the wider issue of having a zombie TV show, that's actually ruddy excellent to boot - as a zedhead, I'm absolutely overjoyed. It's my favourite show on the tellybox right now, and it's pretty much the only show that elicits total and utter, unadulterated excitement from me. There are very few shows out there that I've simply got to see right now, and TWD is right at the top of the pile in that regard.

I love the writing on the show too. I'm trying to get into the screenwriting game myself at the moment, and I do marvel at the development of the show's scripts, tracking character motivations, how they create and build tension, and how they keep pushing their characters into increasingly "omg" territory. "Seed" was one of the most efficient TWD scripts there has been thus far - an impressive feat, keeping so much information flowing so quickly, but maintaining it all so that it made sense and had a damn-near constant sense of propulsion. The speed of the script matched the urgency of the characters in the show - we've got to find a place to stay, we've got to clear out that first area, we've got to clear out this part of the yard, we've got to clear out that cellblock, we've got to find food and medicine, and we've got to get the hell away from those corridors full of ruddy zombies!!! To maintain that sense of propulsion alone is fascinating and gets the big thumbs up from me.

The further I get into screenwriting, the more I find in TWD (as it continues to grow) that impresses me to no end. :)

Before someone says I'm a fanboy gusher or something, I still recognise the odd problem here and there, now and then, but they also need to be taken within the aforementioned context. To pull off a fantastic show that goes from strength-to-strength, while continually seeking to better it, is a feat in itself. To have a mere couple of quibbles (such as the reaction of a single zombie extra) within this entire production, should be seen in the greater context a little bit more ... what was that saying about trees and forrests? ;)

[krisvds]

But, but, but, ...

Again, I love this show. A lot. It's the best thing that has happened to this genre in a long long time (apart from The Dead). I haven't missed a single episode and really enjoy the suspense, the make up, the comic book antics, etcaetera. But seriously, some of the praise you guys are heaping onto this show is a little over the top.

What about how some of these characters are written? Shane and Lori's motivations were all over the shop last season. That's not ambiguity in characterisation, that's sloppyness.

The disregard for some of the rules in a zombie infested world are especially annoying. Remember the dead people in the car wrecks in the pilot of season 2? Nitpicking? Give me a break. It's not rocket science: if you die you come back. Some of the shit in this show has to be explained in a frickin' talkshow. By the way, the lightning reflexes zombie of this episode wasn't the first of it's kind either. Remember Dale? Every time a major character gets bitten it's cheapo jump scare time!
NOTLD rules? Not quite.

Now what this episode brought back that was long missing in this series is an overall sense of dread. Even the biggest fans of this show must surely admit that last season, things got really cosy at times.

[Wyldwraith]

I too love this show,
When I criticize something, it falls into one of two categories. Nitpicking, which are generally things I mention once or twice in passing, and then things happening with/to major characters in such a way that the flaw in the process made me keenly AWARE that it IS a process, instead of being immersed in the story.

This threshold is different for everyone. Again, no argument. However, I say again that if something happens in the show that immediately causes you to be thinking of a shot/scene in terms of being a shot or scene rather than narrative involving three dimensional people it IS a problem, because the difference between good and great survival horror is maintaining the viewer/reader's immersion in the storyline continually.

For those of you more familiar with the technical side of things, regardless whether an episode is shot in 8 days, each scene is viewed by professionals who have been doing this for some time repeatedly. A viewer may only see a particular scene once, and if it jars us, it SHOULD jar those who are watching it piecemeal as a work-in-progress rather than sitting down to enjoy a piece of entertaining television programming.

I will freely praise the season 3 premiere in that the characterization was much improved over last season, to the extent that much was readily apparent in just one episode. I also felt that much of the camerawork was better, in that it shifted to more interesting/eyecatching angles much more frequently than the show had so far.

You must take the good with the bad in anything, but if we're going to discuss these episodes then points made should be considered on their individual merits instead of triggering a defensive reaction as if someone is insinuating TWD isnt a great show the vast majority enjoy a great deal.

In that context, like everyone else I have my favorite characters...characters that I root for their survival and prosperity. That the show generates/elicits such feelings is a testament to its greatness, but one last time. If something is going to involve the death/near death/permanent maiming of a major character I want to be hit with an "Oh DAMN! I did NOT see that coming! Crap, what now?" reaction, instead of being suddenly pulled from deep plot immersion by a bad few seconds shooting all the more conspicuous for the high quality of the narrative/scene setup on either side of the Herschel Walker attack. That sort of jarring FOR ME caused me to be viewing the remainder of the premier as a series of actors acting out a script in a setting, rather than as a narrative I was invested in and "right there with" the characters from moment to moment.

I just don't want that sort of jarring to become more commonplace, especially now that the bulk of the group is routinely going in hand-to-hand versus numerous Walkers and thereby raising the "no one is safe for a moment" risk to new highs. It's a pitfall that right now is for the most part a rare fluke, but one that COULD grow if quality standards arent rigorously maintained.

That's all I meant.

[Ragnarr]

The way I would have handled the Herschel bite scene would be more of Herschel tripping over an already crawling zed in the dark hallway, and Herschel then trying to scramble away from the crawler until ultimately bitten. A little bit more of an "oh shit" moment for the viewers I'd think.

[MinionZombie]

Another way of doing it could have been thusly:

Hershel hears a noise, stops and listens - he just so happens to be standing right beside that stoic walker (as already is the case) - the walker grabs onto him, he reacts and pulls away, twisting around at the same time - he falls down with a big old thud in a way that would be very painful and confuse you momentarily ... in the course of this, his trousers have torn away around his lower leg, and the walker has held onto him and kind of been pulled along a bit - it bites his exposed leg.

Now - that would require more shots, and perhaps they were fighting time, who knows ... but just another possibility.

Nothing major though. I had more of a struggle with the fence climbing walkers in season one.

[bungi43]

Finding Michonne's double decapitation a bit silly, but the only real gripe I've had so far the whole series is the smell episode. I can overlook alot of things, but that was something that bothered me. Glad it hasn't been broken back out in full force again.

The smell thing didn't bother me so much. I just don't think it should've been the primary focus, but I think the idea of rotting flesh and that's how walkers get SOME of their discernment to the living...yeah.

[kidgloves]

I too love this show,
When I criticize something, it falls into one of two categories. Nitpicking, which are generally things I mention once or twice in passing, and then things happening with/to major characters in such a way that the flaw in the process made me keenly AWARE that it IS a process, instead of being immersed in the story.

This threshold is different for everyone. Again, no argument. However, I say again that if something happens in the show that immediately causes you to be thinking of a shot/scene in terms of being a shot or scene rather than narrative involving three dimensional people it IS a problem, because the difference between good and great survival horror is maintaining the viewer/reader's immersion in the storyline continually.

For those of you more familiar with the technical side of things, regardless whether an episode is shot in 8 days, each scene is viewed by professionals who have been doing this for some time repeatedly. A viewer may only see a particular scene once, and if it jars us, it SHOULD jar those who are watching it piecemeal as a work-in-progress rather than sitting down to enjoy a piece of entertaining television programming.

I will freely praise the season 3 premiere in that the characterization was much improved over last season, to the extent that much was readily apparent in just one episode. I also felt that much of the camerawork was better, in that it shifted to more interesting/eyecatching angles much more frequently than the show had so far.

You must take the good with the bad in anything, but if we're going to discuss these episodes then points made should be considered on their individual merits instead of triggering a defensive reaction as if someone is insinuating TWD isnt a great show the vast majority enjoy a great deal.

In that context, like everyone else I have my favorite characters...characters that I root for their survival and prosperity. That the show generates/elicits such feelings is a testament to its greatness, but one last time. If something is going to involve the death/near death/permanent maiming of a major character I want to be hit with an "Oh DAMN! I did NOT see that coming! Crap, what now?" reaction, instead of being suddenly pulled from deep plot immersion by a bad few seconds shooting all the more conspicuous for the high quality of the narrative/scene setup on either side of the Herschel Walker attack. That sort of jarring FOR ME caused me to be viewing the remainder of the premier as a series of actors acting out a script in a setting, rather than as a narrative I was invested in and "right there with" the characters from moment to moment.

I just don't want that sort of jarring to become more commonplace, especially now that the bulk of the group is routinely going in hand-to-hand versus numerous Walkers and thereby raising the "no one is safe for a moment" risk to new highs. It's a pitfall that right now is for the most part a rare fluke, but one that COULD grow if quality standards arent rigorously maintained.

That's all I meant.

Great to see you back onboard Wyld. I really enjoy reading your posts about TWD.
We did tell you that you should hang on for season 3 and that it would be more to your liking once the Rictatorship was in full swing.

[AcesandEights]

Great to see you back onboard Wyld. I really enjoy reading your posts about TWD.
We did tell you that you should hang on for season 3 and that it would be more to your liking once the Rictatorship was in full swing.

But be forewarned: I am still going to blame everything on Shane! :D

- - - Updated - - -


The smell thing didn't bother me so much. I just don't think it should've been the primary focus, but I think the idea of rotting flesh and that's how walkers get SOME of their discernment to the living...yeah.

Pretty much on target with how I felt about it. Didn't bother me too much and I liked the way it was implemented for Michonne's 'pets', as opposed to season 1 where they lathered up in the dude's entrails.

[rongravy]

Pretty much on target with how I felt about it. Didn't bother me too much and I liked the way it was implemented for Michonne's 'pets', as opposed to season 1 where they lathered up in the dude's entrails.

Ehhhh, I would think their own stench would mask the smell of any living person. I mean, they are walking blood and gut pinatas...
What, zombies can't smell their own funk?!?

[babomb]

Since we're on the subject of complaints, I have a few.

I don't like the growling and animal like behavior of the walkers. The atmosphere of the whole series would be better served with less aggressive walkers. Imagine how much creepier it would be if there were moans and cries from the walkers traveling through the halls of the prison. If you were trying to sleep at night and all you could hear through the vents were moaning, crying walkers. That would add a level of psychological disturbance in the mind of the viewer that just isn't possible with growling, menacing walkers that are so easily seen as the enemy.
The way the walkers look and act right now doesn't leave the viewer with the sense that these were once people like you and me. Yeah, they're slow like shamblers, but they don't have that same somber personality that real shamblers have. Zombies are supposed to be like rotting, lobotomized humans with a taste for flesh. But these walkers are more like wounded rabid animals.
Like when Rick and Daryl encounter them locked in cells in the 1st episode of this season. That scene would've been so much better if the walkers slowly moved toward the doors moaning and gurgling, reaching weakly toward rick and daryl, rather than slamming up against the doors while growling and hissing and fiercely grabbing at them. It doesn't fit the overall tone of the show IMO. It's lik they took the zombies from Dawn04 and just slowed them down.

Another thing I don't like is how easy it seems to kill them by stabbing them with blunt tools. Like Carol stabbing that female walker through the eye with a piece of rebar. The only way that would be possible would be if the walker were against a wall or on the ground. Walkers are unstable on their feet, so stabbing them while standing would only push them away or knock them down. To put a tool into their brain, even through an eye, would require some type of sharp tip or alot of velocity.

[AcesandEights]

What, zombies can't smell their own funk?!?

A trip to the local Walmart will confirm that the living also suffer from the same condition. :)