TWD 3x06 "Hounded" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

The sixth episode of season three - keep your discussion of 3x06 to this thread, don't post about it in the shoutbox, and as always keep any future comic book storylines/spoilers within "spoiler tags" (if you don't know how to use spoiler tags, go to the HPOTD FAQ and look up the section on 'BB Codes') - and finally, ENJOY THE DISCUSSION! :thumbsup:

[kidgloves]

Hmmm. I wonder if we'll find out tonight what these "experiments" that Milton is conducting are?

[JonOfTheShred]

Pace is still really moving along. Glenn and Maggie now captive at Woodbury. Andrea spreading her legs for "Phillip." Michonne shot and wounded, found her way to the prison. Rick went through his entire "insanity phase" in the space of an episode, getting closure from that final telephone call. (Brushing side that arc instead of focusing on it kinda makes sense.) And Carol discovered by Daryl.

I wonder if...

Maggie is going to replace Michonne as the torture victim at Woodbury? And Glenn would go into a rage? Perhaps Rick and Co. will go after them instead of the other way around, this time, attacking the governments place as 'the savages' to get their friends back? Although their numbers certainly aren't strong at all.

[sandrock74]

Boy o boy, I feel sorry for poor Maggie if...

she's destined to take the place of Michonne in Woodbury. If they do go that route, I suspect they will use Merle in place of the governor. Speaking of whom, it looks like the whole "Merle seems like a good guy now" debate can be put to rest; he's still scumbag Merle. If Glenn and/or Maggie are hurt in Woodbury, you know Daryl will absolutely stand opposed to Merle.

I hope the phone calls deal has been more or less wrapped up in this episode, as opposed to it going on for a long time. One thing I'm glad to see in this episode is Michonne getting to the prison!!

[erisi236]

I'm still in a quandary on to why exactly they gave up on Carol in a flat second, she's not here, so she must not be anywhere was their reasoning I guess. They even dug a hole in the ground for the fun of it I guess, or to maybe just to troll the prison dudes who actually dug the hole.

[Moon Knight]

Happy that they aren't going to drag Carol's absence like they did Sophia and the phone call plot was trimmed down and for the better IMO. Good episode and shit is about to get real!

The Michonne gut gag was indeed really cool and that final shot, while a little questionable, was pretty striking.

[babomb]

Comic Book Men suck!!!

[bassman]

Comic Book Men suck!!!

:lol:

Agreed.

Anyway, another great episode. I'm seriously impressed with Season Three so far. The main thing i'm taking away from this episode - i'm happy the "Lori is alive" rumors can be put to rest. Although....we didn't actually see Axel this episode so he may be sewing Lori up. :p

While Michonne walking up to the prison fence with walkers around her seemed similar to her introduction to the prison in the comic, i'm kinda disappointed to see the whole "smell" thing coming up again. I've never really liked that and until now held onto the hope that only the characters believed the walkers could smell them but it wasn't necessarily true. Maybe they were ignoring them because they were acting like walkers. Well....I can't say that anymore. Michonne's actions in this episode just further cemented the walkers' scent recognition into TWD TV series' history....

[erisi236]

Actually, this episode kind of pointed out something a little strange. How many of the group would still be alive had they bothered to remember that smearing a little zombie guts on themselves would make the dead ignore them?

Seriously, it was in the 2nd episode, and then the idea just went away, and here it is brought up again.

[facestabber]

Damn this is a fun ride.

There is gonna be one hell of a153503352 show down between Merle and Daryl. My guess still says Daryl's loyalty will end up with his group and may have to kill Merle. It's clear now Merle is a bad person. No silver lining with him.

Im starting to enjoy Michonne more. Personally I wouldnt take a sword to a gun fight but heck she's pulled it off. Andrea wants to be strong and in charge but actually is the least fit to lead and weak. Gov can't risk Andrea meeting with a beat up Glenn and what ever poor Maggie may face. I actually enjoyed Michonnes approach to the prison and Rick spotting her. She is going to expose the group to the evil that is Woodbury and most importantly reveal Andrea and Merle's survival.

This show just keeps delivering for me each week. I'm glad we still have Carol but what is the point of her repeatingly pushing on the door? And ofcourse unable to speak out.....reminds me of Jamie Lee Curtis in Halloween 2 unable to yell at Loomis, deputy and nurse. So welcome back Carol, not very exciting character but interesting on other levels

[Moon Knight]

The smell thing is pretty annoying and I hope it just goes away again. It's too easy of a way for the group to defend themselves.

I also don't mid Carol. They made what could have been a drag of a broken character and made her into a loyal fighter. Pretty cool turnaround. Hopefully she recovers quickly and doesn't bog the group down.

Anyway, if the slower episodes in season 3 are this good then all is good.

[rongravy]

I'm kind of shocked Michonne didn't try to help Glen and Maggie, since she's partly to blame for them getting caught up in her fight with Merle.
Also, looked to me like she just got grazed by Merle. Or an in and out, that bootay can take it.

[zomtom]

It looks as though Michonne lugged that grocery basket full of baby formula to the pirson. That was nice of her, plus it will make her story more believable to Rick's gang.

[ProfessorChaos]

damn, when maggie and glenn were taken by surprise by ol' merle, i was almost sick thinking about what might happen to those two poor love-birds....and i got a bad feeling that comic fans know what i'm talking about...(those who've already mentioned it may want to take it down for the sake of those unfamiliar with the books). i'm predicting that merle gets payback by taking off glenn's arm and then proceeds to rape maggie. makes me sick just thinking about it, but i guess they weren't kidding when they said the show wouldn't pull any punches this season.

cool to see michonne stepping up a bit, but i've gotta say that i was rather disappointed she didn't just ninja herself over there and end merle's sorry life when he was abducting glenn and maggie. her ambush of merle's group in the woods earlier proved that she is indeed stealthy and deadly as hell (almost a bit over the top, in my opinion), and i was kinda let down she didnt' spring out from behind a vehicle and take merle's other hand off....along with his fucking head.

glad to see rick got over his phone-insanity so fast, i thought it was cheesy in the comics and was a bit surprised they brought it up, but now it's over (hopefully), so let's move on, shall we? by the way, i didn't pick up on amy's voice, but i totally recognized jim and jackie's voices, as did my buddy's gf. kinda predictable, all in all.

can't wait till next week, really interested in how all this is going to play out before the mid-season finale coming up in two episodes. way better than last week, for sure.

[Moon Knight]

I'm just gonna assume Michonne was injured and didn't want to take the chance and attack Merle and make things worse for everyone. Plus, it was a good way for her to find out about the prison and get the supplies there and meet the old gang.

Prof Chaos, in your show spoiler, I was thinking the same thing. I really do hope it doesn't go that route.

[MinionZombie]

My thoughts:

IN SUMMARY:

* Some have expressed controversy regarding Michonne, even going so far as to call her a "ninja", and while her sudden arrival amidst Merle's search party was a bit of a stretch in terms of believability, it was still good fun. I can't imagine this scene will further endear those struggling to accept her character though.

* Merle's mean streak - interesting to see that, while relatively a bit cuddlier in earlier episodes, there is a darker side to Merle (perhaps we'll see more of that next week too). He isn't above murder to suit his own means, nor lying to his boss. While Daryl has thrived out from beneath Merle's shadow, he has always maintained a line in the sand - indeed he's become more human as time has passed - so it's interesting to see the flip side represented in Merle.

* The phone - it was good that this wasn't played out too long. Wisely they kept it to a mere episode-and-a-bit, but it was a nice touch to have Hershel also hear that the phone had a tone to it, which temporarily gave credence to the possibility that we might see a departure from the comic version of the phone subplot. Probably better too that they didn't overplay the 'insane Rick' card as that could have worn thin if left to dangle too long. It was also good to see Rick go through a range of emotions - his own path of accepting Lori's death - from utterly desperate to escape the prison, to realisation and acceptance of his failings.

* Andrea's bloodlust - interesting to see that Andrea isn't so squeaky clean. To be fair, she doesn't know that The Governor has a bunch of severed heads in fish tanks, nor his zombified daughter, locked up in his safe room, and hypnotised by the possibilities of the good side of Woodbury, it's entirely justifiable that she would gradually move closer to The Governor - a man who is practiced at patient poisoning of hearts, minds, and souls. Andrea was eager to learn how to shoot, and her inate skill with a firearm was found relatively late in season two - might we see her bloodlust being nurtured, rather than utilised for survival?

* The new girl - she's no Daryl Dixon with a crossbow, but will she eventually become a main cast member? I'd be up for that happening ... as long as it wasn't at the expense of a longer-serving cast member. We've already stacked up considerable losses.

* One of the best things about Daryl Dixon is that we get mere snippets of his back story at rare occasions, but they're so well drawn. Efficient snifters of information to gradually shade in the details - and, again, a chance for the human characters to cope with death. It's important to not let these characters become flippant about the losses of those closest to them.

* "You know, end of the day, relaxing" - Oscar got perhaps the best line of the episode. That moment really made me chuckle.

* There was an interesting sense of hope to the climax of this episode too, despite the prospect of horrible things to come - Rick's moment with his new-born daughter, and Daryl finding an exhausted Carol (good too that they didn't drag out the "where's Carol?" plot line too).

BEST GORE MOMENT:

Walker guts waterfall - in a sticky spot, Michonne slicing open the gut of a walker was gleefully icky. Likewise, Michonne's "GO BACK" message - crafted from body parts - was rather inventive.

BEST TWIST ON THE COMICS:

It looks like we'll be seeing a subtle but potentially powerfully dramatic twist in the next episode - Glenn and Maggie have been captured by Merle and are being interrogated. In the comics it was Glenn and Michonne - this is an interesting tweak, particularly because this will get personal for Glenn. How exactly they'll handle what's to come will be fascinating - things got pretty damn dark in the comics around about this point.

THE CLIFFHANGER:

Michonne, clad in zombie guts, arriving at the prison is seemingly all a part of tying these two disparate storylines together in a sort of 'character exchange'. The 'zombie smell' element used in 1x02 "Guts" is back - which might be a bit controversial for some viewers - but it does prove to be a memorable image, not least for Rick's viewpoint as his first introduction to this stranger carrying a shopping basket.


Actually, this episode kind of pointed out something a little strange. How many of the group would still be alive had they bothered to remember that smearing a little zombie guts on themselves would make the dead ignore them?

Seriously, it was in the 2nd episode, and then the idea just went away, and here it is brought up again.

But then you'd have to be walking around all the time with zombie goo all over you ... not very hygenic. I'd rather be (relatively) clean and keep an eye & ear out for trouble.


I'm just gonna assume Michonne was injured and didn't want to take the chance and attack Merle and make things worse for everyone. Plus, it was a good way for her to find out about the prison and get the supplies there and meet the old gang.

Prof Chaos, in your show spoiler, I was thinking the same thing. I really do hope it doesn't go that route.

1) Merle has a gun, and a bullet's loads faster than a katana wielding badass on-foot from like 15 metres away.

2) A theory I have regarding that:

Daryl will torture Glenn a bit, but nothing really bad, or perhaps nothing major - perhaps more intimidation - particularly if he wants to find his brother.

As for Maggie - it seems that yeah, she's taken the place of Michonne, and I'd wager that The Governor (we saw him entering the 'cell' with Maggie in the preview of next week's episode) gets his sick kicks with poor Maggie ... however, I dearly hope that Maggie survives, and Glenn can help her exact some twisted revenge - it makes sense in a way, to make that whole bit more personal to Glenn. Also, you could tie-in Maggie's attempted suicide from later in the run - like she returns to the prison traumatised and tries to off herself, but Glenn saves her and she has to deal with the mental trauma of it all.

Poor Maggie - I dearly hope she survives, but surely she must, there's so much more to do with the Glenn/Maggie relationship, and we've already lost so many people as it is.

[rgc2005]

Based on the beating Glenn takes in the preview for next week I think the gloves are off. If anything like the spoiler happens to Maggie I hope Woodbury burns to the ground.

[babomb]

One thing that irks me about the portrayal of Maggies character is that she's always so cleaned up and pretty looking for being in the situation they're in.

[kidgloves]

Im absolutely LOVING this season.
Im also finding the Governor extremely likable and believable and that has me very confused. I can remember reading an interview months ago either with Morrissey or Mazarra and whoever it was said that we would see HOW the Governor became the character from the comics and I guess this is what we are seeing now. That little giggle that Morrissey does gives me the willies every time I hear it. Its a great way to communicate to the audience that somethings not quite right under the mask. I noticed that he asked Merle for Michonnes sword and HEAD. We know what he wants to do with the head, don't we?
I still think the show struggles with characterisation, clunky dialogue and poor logic in certain cases though. The whole Carol situation was handled very very badly. Really hamfisted across 3 episodes and I didn't believe that she was dead for one moment because it was telegraphed so obviously.
2 episodes to the mid season break already? Jeeez. Dramatic story changes ahead methinks.

[ProfessorChaos]

anybody else really hoping they deviate from the source material and kill andrea off soon? her character was so awesome in the comics, but this tv version is just a constant letdown and source of frustration. so poorly written and played....

[Jigssaw]

How did Michonne found the prison ?

[bassman]

We're led to assume the store where Merle kidnapped Glenn and Maggie was close to the prison. Before Merle shows up and Michonne is watching them, Glenn mentioned something about the prison being a "straight shot" from their location.

[Ragnarr]

We're led to assume the store where Merle kidnapped Glenn and Maggie was close to the prison. Before Merle shows up and Michonne is watching them, Glenn mentioned something about the prison being a "straight shot" from their location.

Never read the comic and intentionally so now. I want all the material to be fresh as much as possible, although from what I understand the writers stray somewhat from the comic version. That kind of thing may have pissed off Tolkien fans with the LotR trilogy, but it looks like TWD fans like the changes in the televised series pretty much.

Odd that Michonne would know that zombie duo "Irk & Dirk" in chains masked her living scent, but that the zombie inards splatted and smeared all over her wouldn't logically have the same effect.

[rongravy]

Never read the comic and intentionally so now. I want all the material to be fresh as much as possible, although from what I understand the writers stray somewhat from the comic version. That kind of thing may have pissed off Tolkien fans with the LotR trilogy, but it looks like TWD fans like the changes in the televised series pretty much.

Odd that Michonne would know that zombie duo "Irk & Dirk" in chains masked her living scent, but that the zombie inards splatted and smeared all over her wouldn't logically have the same effect.

Good observation, I didn't even register that factoid. Guess there is a good reason for hanging out here all the time, though my wife wouldn't buy it.

As far as the comics, I've read the wiki stuff on it, that's it. Sometimes it helps, sometimes...
I would've liked to see the stuff Dale went through, like hooking up on Andrea, and the whole cannibals eating his leg and all that. I kind of wish they wouldn't stray as much, the things I read I always can't wait to hopefully see them played out.
I also didn't want to see Carol go so soon, before she went into heat, so to speak. Guess she can't try to three way with Rick and Lori now, maybe Daryl is gonna have to take the brunt force of her lustful lustiness...:D

[Moon Knight]

These next two episodes are gonna be brutal. I can feel it. I'm actually worried about the two lovebirds!

[babomb]

That kind of thing may have pissed off Tolkien fans with the LotR trilogy, but it looks like TWD fans like the changes in the televised series pretty much. Some do. But I've seen die hard comic fans on the web flip out over very minor changes. Some people can't grasp the idea that when reading a comic your mind fills in the blanks, and when a TV show is created from that comic, the way the blanks are filled isn't according to your specific ideas. Others would totally prefer a panel by panel recreation of the comics.

[JonOfTheShred]

anybody else really hoping they deviate from the source material and kill andrea off soon? her character was so awesome in the comics, but this tv version is just a constant letdown and source of frustration. so poorly written and played....

Yes, I agree, we were talking about this in one of the last episode threads.

She is a generic, cookie cutter, "Smarmy bitch" character. She has the exaggerated head swivels, the cheap sassy attitude, she constantly over acts, over-emotes both with her voice infliction and body language, does those annoying pauses in conversations, like she's thinking about what to say next...it comes across as really fake and forced. She's portrayed as the generic blonde bitch found in every modern drama series. Her personality is just way too condescending and abrasive in the show. And she also has that constant, self-satisfied, smug look on her face, with those grand canyon ass-crack dimples making her look like the Joker or some shit, which just kind of multiplies all the other poor qualities of the character, as portrayed on the show. Not saying the actress isn't GOOD, but she really messed this role up.

Andrea in the comics was much more "girl-next-door" and friendly. She got bitchy when she HAD TO, like when she was getting into arguments with Allen about his mental condition after losing his wife, but she was still very likable at all times. She was also much younger. Why the fuck is she in her late 30's / early 40's in the show? Wasn't she in college in the comic?

The worst Andrea moment in the comics I can remember is when she's doing that annoying, drawn-out speech about making clothes for the people when they first reach the prison. I cringed reading it. If you took that speech, added some smarmy bitchiness and over-acting, multiplied by annoying conversational pauses where she briefly looks away from the person she's talking to and turns back to look at them mid-sentence, double, and then melted together with over-acting and man-hands, you'd get the Andrea in the show.

[AcesandEights]

Can't emphasize enough how much our non-comic reading members appreciate people spoiler tagging references to possible future plot points.

[facestabber]

This next episode is gonna be tense. Ricks group is going to get jaw dropping intel about the gov, Andrea and Merle's survival and the capture of Glenn and Maggie. Unfortunately for our group they lack the personnel and firepower to approach Woodbury head-on. Can they send Daryl in and use the brother angle to infiltrate Woodbury?

I hate to say it but it sure would be nice to have Shane to confront Woodbury and the gov.

[shootemindehead]

The smell thing is pretty annoying and I hope it just goes away again.

There aren't enough expletives available for me to demonstrate how utterly stupid the smell thing is.

It's a real shame they chose to bring this back, as it's probably the dumbest thing I've seen in the "zombie world". Apart from ceiling crawlers and raptor screams, but they don't even register to me, as films with that crap get binned by me.

I was really hoping that they'd dropped that nonsense.

If the zombies can smell their victims, then how come the zombie couldn't smell Rick and Co under the cars in S02E01, or how come Andrea wasn't sniffed out by the zombie in the camper van?

Not only does it give the protagonists a "get out", it also makes tense "hiding from zombies when they're really close" moments redundant, as the zombies can "smell" their victims? Or not...or they can...or...whatever the f*ck! :duh:

The whole idea is as dumb as a box of frogs and liable to get the show into some serious WTF moments, as it appears and disappears at random.

Stupid bloody idea. :rolleyes:







Apart from that the episode was grand. :D

[Andy]

Really disappointed to see carol alive, it would have been epic to have daryl open the door and zombie carol lunge out just to be put down. Would be the first time she'd thrown herself at him :D

Anyway, i really hope their building up to her suicide like in the comics.. its amazing how they have turned a midly annoying comic book character into a dull, annoying as hell, cringe worthy, drab tv show character.. cant wait for her to bite the dust.

[babomb]

If I didn't know better I'd think you had a crush on carol!!


Really disappointed to see carol alive, it would have been epic to have daryl open the door and zombie carol lunge out just to be put down. Would be the first time she'd thrown herself at him :D

Anyway, i really hope their building up to her suicide like in the comics.. its amazing how they have turned a midly annoying comic book character into a dull, annoying as hell, cringe worthy, drab tv show character.. cant wait for her to bite the dust.So then, you DON'T like Carol? Just wondering, your words seem rather ambiguous...:skull:

[AcesandEights]

If I didn't know better I'd think you had a crush on carol!!

I know, right?! It's like Andy is pulling her pigtail...err--crew cut! We got it, Andy; much love for Carol. Now please stop dwelling on her, she won't like you as much if she knows how hard you've fallen :D

[JonOfTheShred]

Really disappointed to see carol alive, it would have been epic to have daryl open the door and zombie carol lunge out just to be put down. Would be the first time she'd thrown herself at him :D

Anyway, i really hope their building up to her suicide like in the comics.. its amazing how they have turned a midly annoying comic book character into a dull, annoying as hell, cringe worthy, drab tv show character.. cant wait for her to bite the dust.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkAAvDkj9k



I know, right?! It's like Andy is pulling her pigtail...err--crew cut! We got it, Andy; much love for Carol. Now please stop dwelling on her, she won't like you as much if she knows how hard you've fallen :D

In Andys defense, I've been a lot harsher on Andrea than he has been on Carol. :elol:

[bassman]

Yikes. I don't understand the extreme Carol hate. There are worse and more useless characters on the show, imo....

[JonOfTheShred]

Yikes. I don't understand the extreme Carol hate. There are worse and more useless characters on the show, imo....

I don't mind Carol. But I can kinda see why someone would dislike her. Think about it - she's entirely to blame for the slow pace of Season 2. They were searching for HER daughter. ;)

[AcesandEights]

Yikes. I don't understand the extreme Carol hate. There are worse and more useless characters on the show, imo....

Fishtank-head guy #7 and fishtank-head guy #12 have been mailing it in on their scenes, haven't they?

Nah, I agree with Bassman, you get an everyday person who isn't a supercommando or a Hollywood beautiful person and she gets hated on. Yeah, she's not fulfilling any zed apocalypse fantasies...or many other sorts of fantasies, for that matter, but it's a counterbalance sort of character and the actress actually does a decent job when they give her sensible lines and scenes.

[ProfessorChaos]

not really understanding all the carol-hating either. she seems like the every-woman type character, and gives the show more believability.

[EvilNed]

Carol and Darryl are two of the remaining interesting characters on the show, so I'm glad she was found alive. In this wasteland of poorly portrayed comic book clichés, it's nice to have some characters who're just ordinary people.

Episode 6 was good, but the show is not great anymore. Feeling a bit bummed about it.

[joeharley666]

Carol and Darryl are two of the remaining interesting characters on the show, so I'm glad she was found alive. In this wasteland of poorly portrayed comic book clichés, it's nice to have some characters who're just ordinary people.

Episode 6 was good, but the show is not great anymore. Feeling a bit bummed about it.


I agree about Carol. A very believable character who is adapting from every day life to this crazy world. I think everyone here acts as if they would become Daryl or Rick if this ever happened when in reality most people would act like little bitches and may grow and become adapted just like carol has.
I disagree, I enjoy this show as much as the first season if not more.

[babomb]

In Andys defense, I've been a lot harsher on Andrea than he has been on Carol. :elol: Yeah, but we all understand that's only because you got a thing for the Governor, so we don't make a big deal about it....:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:

[shootemindehead]

I like Carol. I think she's a decent character and I've probably said it before, but Melissa McBride is doing a really good job with her. She's a character so ordinary that there isn't any umph in playing her, I'd imagine. Those characters are often the hardest to play. a role like that forces you to be subtle, but you still have to be good at your game to make an impact.

[MinionZombie]

Fishtank-head guy #7 and fishtank-head guy #12 have been mailing it in on their scenes, haven't they?

Nah, I agree with Bassman, you get an everyday person who isn't a supercommando or a Hollywood beautiful person and she gets hated on. Yeah, she's not fulfilling any zed apocalypse fantasies...or many other sorts of fantasies, for that matter, but it's a counterbalance sort of character and the actress actually does a decent job when they give her sensible lines and scenes.


I like Carol. I think she's a decent character and I've probably said it before, but Melissa McBride is doing a really good job with her. She's a character so ordinary that there isn't any umph in playing her, I'd imagine. Those characters are often the hardest to play. a role like that forces you to be subtle, but you still have to be good at your game to make an impact.

Agreed, I don't understand the Carol hatin' either - McBride does a ruddy good job, but I would like to see her get the opportunity to muck in a bit more (like in 3x01 when she was helping take out some walkers). As there would be in such a group, you're going to have personalities that are a bit more 'back seat', who relate to anyone pretty easily - they're a counterpoint to the big personalities and the leaders in the group. Carol's managed to maintain a humanity throughout all she's been through, and her pairing-of-sorts with Daryl is interesting too - they help keep the human heart of the show beating while the big guns are struggling to keep everything in check (they have less time to deal with the emotional strains as they have practical concerns that are constantly biting at their heels which have to be dealt with).

I don't understand the Andrea hate either ... I can understand a bit of it, to an extent, but I don't agree with it. Never understood the sheer hate that Lori got so often either, that was unfair despite the fact that she clearly had flaws and made wrong decisions ... but it was interesting to see not a dry eye in the house when she was taken down.

[krisvds]

Ok, the Michonne ninja scene at the start of the episode was ridiculous. Six episodes in and she is still nothing more than flat fan service. I really hope we get to see the Michonne from the comics a bit more in future episodes but after this I have all but given up on her.

The Carol reappearance was handled poorly. I really like the character but she needs better writing. Just like Ned said: it's the more realistic, everyday characters that make the series good.

Don't get all the Andrea hate either. Apart from the fact she keeps falling for the wrong dudes perhaps? All the pouting doesn't help either I guess ...

Months on the road in a zombie apocalypse did not change the fact Maggy is still too well groomed, face full of make up and eye liner and generally looking like she just visited a hairdresser. The actress is a pretty lady but still, I can suspend disbelief only so far. I wonder what's in store for her over in Woodbury. I'm guessing we will get to see more of the Governor's crazy side realy soon.

[MinionZombie]

To be fair, Maggie was fairly grubby (like everyone else) when she first arrived at the prison, but all of them have had the opportunity since taking the prison over to scrub up a bit. Even if it's a bucket of cold water and some soap, you'd be desperate for a clean-up if you'd been living in the same fetid clothes for months on end that had only received a rinse in a stream now-and-then.

[JonOfTheShred]

Yeah, but we all understand that's only because you got a thing for the Governor, so we don't make a big deal about it....:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:

:elol: I would BE the Governor in the zombie apocalypse. I even look like the governor from the comics. ;)

[Neil]

The Carol reappearance was handled poorly.Indeed, what was even up with her? And she couldn't even make a sound? Tap on the door with something? Only push it too-and-fro?

- - - Updated - - -

Merle - So no, we're not going to chase Miss Ninja so here's a bullet in yer head... Next scene... He's seemingly following Miss Ninja! :duh:

[babomb]

To be fair, Maggie was fairly grubby (like everyone else) when she first arrived at the prison, but all of them have had the opportunity since taking the prison over to scrub up a bit. Even if it's a bucket of cold water and some soap, you'd be desperate for a clean-up if you'd been living in the same fetid clothes for months on end that had only received a rinse in a stream now-and-then. She's always in the same clothes at least. But her pants are always tight fitting. Even tight pants start to droop after wearing them even a few days in a row. Her tank tops are always perfectly tucked in, clean with no residual muck, no small tears or burns. Fingernails are always perfectly clean and manicured, face and arms are always super clean.
Yeah, when they got to the prison she was grubby and covered in crap. But they got no way to clean clothes beside buckets of water. Clothes don't come perfectly clean that way. And the only way her hands and face would be so clean all the time is if she never touched anything dirty, or washed her hands constantly and never wiped sweat off her face or anything with her hands. Just look at Beth. She's always grubby.
It's really not that big of a deal. It doesn't detract from the show at all. It just makes you wonder why. Makes you think that maybe some of the characters are starting to worry alot about their on screen image, and exerting influence over things for their own vanity. I can imagine that pretty actresses would like to look good on their shows, and being covered in dirt and blood all the time doesn't make them feel very glamorous.

[MinionZombie]

:elol: I would BE the Governor in the zombie apocalypse. I even look like the governor from the comics. ;)

I think that's the sound of all the Rick-followers taking a cautious step backwards, and the resident Shane-ites stepping forward with dangerous curiosity. :sneaky:


Indeed, what was even up with her? And she couldn't even make a sound? Tap on the door with something? Only push it too-and-fro?

- - - Updated - - -

Merle - So no, we're not going to chase Miss Ninja so here's a bullet in yer head... Next scene... He's seemingly following Miss Ninja! :duh:

1) I presume she was physically and mentally exhausted after her ordeal, as well as being dehydrated and no doubt without much grub in her belly at that point.

2) From what I remember he wasn't tracking Michonne, but rather he was heading back to the prison. He didn't even know Michonne was there at that location hiding behind a car.


She's always in the same clothes at least. But her pants are always tight fitting. Even tight pants start to droop after wearing them even a few days in a row. Her tank tops are always perfectly tucked in, clean with no residual muck, no small tears or burns. Fingernails are always perfectly clean and manicured, face and arms are always super clean.
Yeah, when they got to the prison she was grubby and covered in crap. But they got no way to clean clothes beside buckets of water. Clothes don't come perfectly clean that way. And the only way her hands and face would be so clean all the time is if she never touched anything dirty, or washed her hands constantly and never wiped sweat off her face or anything with her hands. Just look at Beth. She's always grubby.
It's really not that big of a deal. It doesn't detract from the show at all. It just makes you wonder why. Makes you think that maybe some of the characters are starting to worry alot about their on screen image, and exerting influence over things for their own vanity. I can imagine that pretty actresses would like to look good on their shows, and being covered in dirt and blood all the time doesn't make them feel very glamorous.

If Rick can change clothes and wash a shit-tonne of blood and gore off his face whenever he fancies, then Maggie can have a scrub in a bucket too. :p

I don't see Beth being any more or less grubby than Maggie, personally. Heck, Glenn's hair was looking tidier than before (when it was matted with sweat and looked well greasy), but they've all scrubbed up a bit.

[Andy]

Yikes. I don't understand the extreme Carol hate. There are worse and more useless characters on the show, imo....

You counting tree's as characters? :lol:

Seriously though.. I Just dont like the actress, the character or the writing for her. Sorry, shes not a 'everywomen normal person who makes the show realistic' shes a boring, annoying, moany, ugly drab that sucks the life out of every scene shes in.

What annoys me is how much older all the characters are than their comic originals, its like they moved every single character forwards a generation and being in my 20's myself.. that takes alot of the relation out of it for me but they really took carol to the extreme.. they've taken a character from her mid 20's and put her in what, her late 50's? Her age and inability to handle what was going on around her was her character, its what made her interesting. Still an annoying character but with a point..

They've just taken that and made her into a dreary, moaning, sad old women who i am just waiting to die.

[babomb]

They've all scrubbed up a bit too much. You're right, Glenn was also lookin very well groomed. Rick looked scrubbed up compared to being covered in walker blood. But still looked kinda grubby. Especially compared to Maggie.
But it seems like they're all just sitting around eating and shit. Except for daryl and the new token black guy. You'd think they'd be busy with other stuff, getting themselves set up better instead of just sittin around.

[sandrock74]

I noticed how it was said that Axl was fixing the generators in this episode. I'm getting the feeling that showers will be shown (or at least mentioned) to be up and running soon. They did have working showers in the prison in the comics. That should take care of a lot of peoples nitpicking complaints about how people look.

Personally, I don't want to see Maggie with hairly legs and armpits...you're talking about "realistic", right? Or the guys with ZZ Top beards; or a patchwork beard in Glenns case (I just have the feeling he wouldn't grow a full manly beard). Personally, I'm perfectly fine with how everyone has been looking.

[babomb]

I noticed how it was said that Axl was fixing the generators in this episode. I'm getting the feeling that showers will be shown (or at least mentioned) to be up and running soon. They did have working showers in the prison in the comics. That should take care of a lot of peoples nitpicking complaints about how people look.

Personally, I don't want to see Maggie with hairly legs and armpits...you're talking about "realistic", right? Or the guys with ZZ Top beards; or a patchwork beard in Glenns case (I just have the feeling he wouldn't grow a full manly beard). Personally, I'm perfectly fine with how everyone has been looking. How about Herschel and Carol with huge gray bush, sock boobs and cottage cheese thighs?:eek: I'd rather see hairy legs and pits and ZZ top beards over that anyday!:p
All kidding aside, I agree completely. Full on reality in that situation wouldn't be a pretty sight! After having these images in my mind, I'll never complain about them looking too clean again...

What's up with Daryl completely destroying Carol's knife before rescuing her?
And when are they gonna do something with Beth? At least get her out of those clothes!? The Capri's are a bit stylish for the situation.

[MinionZombie]

Blimey, they've got to eat, and naturally they're all going to eat at the same time. You've also got to have a breather and get your energy back, especially mere hours after a real trauma. You've got to take some time out for recharge emotionally and physically.

Andy - Carol was early 30s in the comics, and she's early-to-mid 40s in the show (Melissa McBride is 47) ... and I don't see why her looks have anything to do with it. Sure, to each their own in terms of who they'd be attracted to (personally, I'm totally a Maggie fan in that regard, but I'm also a fan of Maggie in a wider context too - she kicks arse), but just because you yourself don't fancy Melissa McBride, I don't see how that has any bearing on the quality of her acting or her character in the show. :rockbrow:

To be honest - and speaking generally here - there have been some views/comments bandied around by some folk here, on some of the female characters on the show, that I've found to be somewhat questionable. :|

[Andy]

Andy - Carol was early 30s in the comics, and she's early-to-mid 40s in the show (Melissa McBride is 47) ... and I don't see why her looks have anything to do with it. Sure, to each their own in terms of who they'd be attracted to (personally, I'm totally a Maggie fan in that regard, but I'm also a fan of Maggie in a wider context too - she kicks arse), but just because you yourself don't fancy Melissa McBride, I don't see how that has any bearing on the quality of her acting or her character in the show. :rockbrow:

No no no, youve missed my point.. im not moaning becuase she isnt eye candy. You know full well i sit in the beth camp on the department.

Im talking about making the characters relatable, which carol isnt to me. My point with the comics was although carol was annoying, she had some personality.. she had a story, you could see her unravelling and her story got good before she died.. They've taken all that out and replaced her with a totally different character who is in my opinion very pissy, moany, sour faced and who has no likable personality.

They might aswell have named melissa mcbrides character Shirley for how close she is to the source material.. and before you say i know alot of the other characters are far off their comic counterparts too but they have something else, they have their own personalities and characters which have made them likable but carol does not. at all.

[AcesandEights]

http://i1.cdnds.net/11/43/618x403/618_scariest_horror_films_the_shining.jpg

[Neil]

From what I remember he wasn't tracking Michonne, but rather he was heading back to the prison. He didn't even know Michonne was there at that location hiding behind a car.

He was indeed suppose to be heading back, but you never had the impression they'd travelled anywhere other than woodland before... and indeed it's rather hard to track someone on tarmac too!

So if the town was back towards 'home' why didn't they (Merle) pass it earlier (making tracking impossible), and then why was Michonne heading back, rather than away?

[JonOfTheShred]

I think that's the sound of all the Rick-followers taking a cautious step backwards, and the resident Shane-ites stepping forward with dangerous curiosity. :sneaky:

You know, now that I think about it, my dialect is definitely closer to NEGAN territory. And everyone constantly tells me IRL I look like Jesus. And I have that no bullshit attitude like Abraham, and have also worked construction like him. So maybe Glenn supporters, Michonne supporters, Rosita supporters, Maggie supporters, and comic Sophia supporters should be feeling apprehensive at this point, too.

[babomb]

You know, now that I think about it, my dialect is definitely closer to NEGAN territory. And everyone constantly tells me IRL I look like Jesus. And I have that no bullshit attitude like Abraham, and have also worked construction like him. So maybe Glenn supporters, Michonne supporters, Rosita supporters, Maggie supporters, and comic Sophia supporters should be feeling apprehensive at this point, too. It's all just rumor until we see a photo!!:elol:

[Moon Knight]

People just look for things to complain about the show around here. Just stop watching.

[babomb]

People just look for things to complain about the show around here. Just stop watching.But.....but......we like it!!!

They need to paint the walls in their cell block! And everyone needs to have a bin with their name on it. To hold their butt wipes and hard candies. And now that Carol is back she can do her fucking job! Washing everyones unmentionables and bathing Herschel.

[Moon Knight]

But.....but......we like it!!!

They need to paint the walls in their cell block! And everyone needs to have a bin with their name on it. To hold their butt wipes and hard candies. And now that Carol is back she can do her fucking job! Washing everyones unmentionables and bathing Herschel.

Eh, my last post was a bit harsh I apologize. I have issues with things like "Zombie Smells for a camo and the occasional plot hole, not how good Maggie looks or how old the actress who plays Carol is.

[babomb]

Eh, my last post was a bit harsh I apologize. I have issues with things like "Zombie Smells for a camo and the occasional plot hole, not how good Maggie looks or how old the actress who plays Carol is. No worries here. We all nitpick, but it's not like anyone is saying the show should be boycotted over these little issues. Nobodies gripes are more valid than anyone elses.

[krisvds]

Eh, my last post was a bit harsh I apologize. I have issues with things like "Zombie Smells for a camo and the occasional plot hole, not how good Maggie looks or how old the actress who plays Carol is.

Well as far as Maggie is concerned: when people are surviving the zombie apocalypse and run around with fucking eyeliner and a haircut and all, ... it doesn't really bother me but it IS kinda ridiculous. Nitpicking? Sure. It's all in good cheer though. Love the series. It's got really well done zombies!

Still: Michonne? SWoooooosHHHH. Just rewatched that opening scene and can't get over how ridiculous that was. Seriously: how much of a headstart did she get while Merle was playing in the zombie thunderdome last episode? And they still track her down rather easily, no? Despite these guys not really looking like Davy Crockett. Why does she go through all those lenghts cutting up the zombies to spell out that warning? Does she want to be tracked to have that little Lone Wolf moment? And why go for anyone BUT the leader of the guys tracking her? It looks like some choices in this series are made with regards to how cool things will look and nothing more. Let's have the samurai chick cut up some guys or some walkers every episode!!! Swooooooosh. Now you see her now you don't

When all else fails there is still the talkshow to explain stuff.

[Neil]

Still: Michonne? SWoooooosHHHH. Just rewatched that opening scene and can't get over how ridiculous that was. Seriously: how much of a headstart did she get while Merle was playing in the zombie thunderdome last episode? And they still track her down rather easily, no? Despite these guys not really looking like Davy Crockett. Why does she go through all those lenghts cutting up the zombies to spell out that warning? Does she want to be tracked to have that little Lone Wolf moment? And why go for anyone BUT the leader of the guys tracking her? It looks like some choices in this series are made with regards to how cool things will look and nothing more. Let's have the samurai chick cut up some guys or some walkers every episode!!! Swooooooosh. Now you see her now you don't.
Good point(s)!

[bassman]

Sometimes I feel like you guys dwell too much on the minor details. Of course it's normal to have criticisms, but c'mon.....it's a TV series. It will never be absolutely perfect...

[MinionZombie]

Sometimes I feel like you guys dwell too much on the minor details. Of course it's normal to have criticisms, but c'mon.....it's a TV series. It will never be absolutely perfect...

Agreed.

The perspective is thrown out-of-whack at times. The show gets so much right, that genuine complaints are rare, it's usually small nitpicky things - it's important to have perspective, but sometimes it's personal views. I don't agree with the Lori/Carol/Andrea hate for instance, while some hold very strong opinions in regards to them.

My view on the nitpicky things is, if they do bother me, then it's a case of "yeah, must try harder next time in that respect, but the rest of the episode was fine and dandy" - for example, last week's episode left a few questions over the mechanics of the situation that weren't telegraphed as neatly as they could/should have been ... that aside, it was still a solid episode, and superior to most TV out there.

We've landed a beauty with TWD, and they genuinely seek to improve themselves. They didn't drag out Carol's disappearance (although they could have better telegraphed to the audience why the group wasn't fussed with finding a body - just a single line that directly addressed that question would have been golden), and they didn't drag out the telephone thing either - something that could have easily become very silly indeed. It's key to not let the audience get ahead of the show and be hanging around waiting for the show itself to catch up with the viewer - the show should always strive to be ahead of the viewer, and they're definitely doing a tip-top job at that this season. :)

[krisvds]

Sometimes I feel like you guys dwell too much on the minor details. Of course it's normal to have criticisms, but c'mon.....it's a TV series. It will never be absolutely perfect...

I wouldn't call Michonne's characterisation and the whole opening scene of last episode a minor detail?
Mind you, it doesn't detract from my overall enjoyment of the series. Said enjoyment doesn't make me blind for some of the show's faults either.
I'm not here to nitpick but to discuss and celebrate the show with fellow Romero fans ...

[Buzzbomb]

An excellent episode! TWD is the only TV show I look forward to each week & is much better than a lot of the zombie/infected movies I've seen. IMHO the acting is also mostly top notch, and the effects/make-up similarly superb.

The pacing of this episode was just right, they could have dragged out the search for Michonne, but just cutting straight to the action worked fine and the I thought 'body-parts' message in this episode was a neat 'sick' touch.

Merle is also clearly smarter than he lets on - the way he could/couldn't pronounce that new guy's name, was another memorable nuance. His 'left handed' shooting also seems to be a bit off!

The discussion on the use of zombie guts for camouflage, got me wondering how zombies in general can differentiate the living from the dead... I mean I'd expect all their senses to start degrading, especially their eyesight, as eyeballs would probably be one of the first to shrink & the cornea/lens would presumably cloud over.... and then according to the Vision Council of America 75% of US adults need some sort of corrective vision anyway, so without their glasses/contact lenses, many of the zombies may be fumbling around blind without any further eye degradation. (Perhaps that explains the generic zombie genre 'arms out front' stance).... The zombies use of smell & sound to detect their next meal, seems quite logical and TWD's use of gut camouflage is IMHO another neat innovation of the show.

Not having read the comics, Rick's telephone calls I think worked well as a metaphor for his grieving / soul searching. Also glad to see Carol back - holed up after a narrow escape, weaponless, and probably thinking that the rest of the group had met a messy end....

Can't wait till next week...

Cheers
Buzzbomb

PS: For me there was only one tiny thing in this episode that jarred my suspension of disbelief.... and that was the plants in the garden, in particular the flowering buddleia (also shown in 3x04) which just seems to be a bit early in the year given the group at the end of the second series were in Autumn & a previous conversation between Andrea/Michonne suggests they'd been on the road 7-8 months. Mega Trivial I know, but I think says a great deal about the general high quality of the show.

[facestabber]

Well as far as Maggie is concerned: when people are surviving the zombie apocalypse and run around with fucking eyeliner and a haircut and all, ... it doesn't really bother me but it IS kinda ridiculous. Nitpicking? Sure. It's all in good cheer though. Love the series. It's got really well done zombies!

Still: Michonne? SWoooooosHHHH. Just rewatched that opening scene and can't get over how ridiculous that was. Seriously: how much of a headstart did she get while Merle was playing in the zombie thunderdome last episode? And they still track her down rather easily, no? Despite these guys not really looking like Davy Crockett. Why does she go through all those lenghts cutting up the zombies to spell out that warning? Does she want to be tracked to have that little Lone Wolf moment? And why go for anyone BUT the leader of the guys tracking her? It looks like some choices in this series are made with regards to how cool things will look and nothing more. Let's have the samurai chick cut up some guys or some walkers every episode!!! Swooooooosh. Now you see her now you don't

When all else fails there is still the talkshow to explain stuff.

Im thinking Michonne fully expected them to come after her. So her view is why not set up an ambush and maybe aquire some supplies/weapons. The sword is great but if she had a gun she could have easily taken them all out. The body parts were a great idea on her part and they served their intended purpose. She drew their attention in and the 3 completely focused on the parts. Shows Merle isnt as smart of a tracker/hunter because if he was smart he would have immediately been looking around.

But regarding the ninja skills and going into a fight with 3 armed men with a sword is definitely for tv and not much for the realm of reality. I agree with you they should tone that down a bit. But in my own hypocracy I am starting to like Michonne more.

And as others have said I will still give this show a pass because its greatness and things they get right far outweight the mis steps.

[paranoid101]

This season so far is my favourite, hope it continues to be this good for the rest of the episodes.

[Moon Knight]

Michonne doesn't bother me cause that's pretty much how she is in the comics. A little over the top? Sure. However, I'm loving this season.

[babomb]

The Maggie looking too clean thing is noticeable to me. Nothing major.
But the other shit I said about them sitting around eating, and painting their cell block was not meant to be taken seriously.

[shootemindehead]

The discussion on the use of zombie guts for camouflage, got me wondering how zombies in general can differentiate the living from the dead... I mean I'd expect all their senses to start degrading, especially their eyesight, as eyeballs would probably be one of the first to shrink & the cornea/lens would presumably cloud over.... and then according to the Vision Council of America 75% of US adults need some sort of corrective vision anyway, so without their glasses/contact lenses, many of the zombies may be fumbling around blind without any further eye degradation. (Perhaps that explains the generic zombie genre 'arms out front' stance).... The zombies use of smell & sound to detect their next meal, seems quite logical and TWD's use of gut camouflage is IMHO another neat innovation of the show.

It's ridiculous, I know, to be discussing such nonsense, but this aspect of 'The Walking Dead' really drives me up the wall. I can let a lot of things go in the show, but the super zombie smell is just an appallingly bad idea.

I think zombies shouldn't be privy to super senses in "death", that were denied to them in life. The idea that something could smell another thing because it doesn't stink of death is absurd. The "stinkier" smell of the rotting corpses would mask the "cleaner" smell of the humans anyway, regardless of whether the victim had guts splashed over them or not.

How they locate the victims should be by sound and vision and that should be limited too due to the natural degradation that occurs with rot. It's the general difference between "us and them" and how their victims react that should be the signifier for them.

That...or just don't mention it in the story line.

[Wyldwraith]

To be fair,
I think the whole "One generation forward" thing is sort of a very accurate real-world assessment that so many members of Gen X and Y have ended up useless drains on Mommy & Daddy's checkbooks well into their early 30s. Yes, before say 1999 you had "Career College Students" but they were a VERY DEFINED MINORITY, of individuals who had learned to game the system so they didn't have to move on and out into the real world.

Once those holes were plugged in the collegic system I started to notice more and more of my peers doing things like 2yrs at community college (So as to be able to take advantage of Florida state law, which many states have versions of now, saying that if you get your Associate of Arts degree and are a legal resident of the State, then that state's Universities MUST accept you) then 3-4 more years at the nearest University to their parents/former primary caregivers home with an Undetermined/Undeclared Major and a part-time job to bolster Pell Grant + Financial Aid + Student Loans + Cash squeezed outta family....

Then, EVENTUALLY...or rather FINALLY, the rug gets pulled out from under each and every one of them. The details differ. This one can't get enough $$ from the College anymore to make being a career student a viable "career"...that one basically ended up subject to a tough-love "Do something with your life or don't come around anymore" speech-intervention by their parents/primary caregivers...or they simply ::GASP:: finally grew beyond the repetitive user-centric lifestyle and decided to get up and do something.

Even then the trend there was the same. After career College student you'd see lots of Associate of Sciences-based careers. (X-Ray Techs, Dental Assistants/Hygienists, Phlobotomists etc) Or there was always a mid-to-lateish 20s entry into the military to provide life-structure they were unable or unwilling to provide for themselves. (These are the folks who finish a stint in the service, the last six months to a year being a tail-end deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, who then turn around and become (Paid) poster-children for Anti-War groups)

The point of all this isn't an ideological rant. It's PERCEPTION. For reasons not well-quantified..some of which I just satirically illustrated, we Gen X-ers have never really shaken the Shallow Slacker tag that got slapped on us when we were teens. I think perhaps the reason you see blowback in things like commentary-heavy books/shows/movies is now that dismissive contempt with which Gen X in particular was regarded is morphing into a (for the older generations for one reason, and the younger generations for quite another) horrified panicked realization that we're reaching the age where our generation is becoming the motivating force in society. For ossified elements of our society, or very fluid but ultimately incompatible-in-outlook elements (the younger generations in particular) that's a very scary/upsetting reality to face.

I think some writers, of scripts and novels alike use these cultural biases as a layer of subtext in building their characters. With people living so much longer these days, the generation from which you come is becoming a more markedly different aspect of the "human experience" all the time.

Andrea....excellent in The Mist...as was Dale, and Carol's very brief performances at the beginning and very end of said movie. The actress portraying her has demonstrated talent beyond what we're currently seeing in Season 3...so I'm honestly beginning to wonder if the writers aren't deliberately playing us by manipulating a residual dislike for the character in some vocal circles from Season 2 into an even more unpalatable personality in Season 3 for some as-yet-unrevealed reason. Why? Because SHE ISN'T THIS HORRIBLE AN ACTRESS!

We should be asking ourselves why every little annoying thing about her has become magnified and inflated so quickly, amidst a ferociously-speeding plot. To what end, I honestly don't know. I just think there's more here than meets the eye. An opinion reinforced by the above commentary on my part, but not necessarily wedded to it.

Note: When I said satirical, I didn't really support that properly. I'M a member Generation X, and went through years or behavior like what I described above I now cringe at the thought of. So it wasn't some sort of judgmental attack of ideology...more a self-depracating observation I happen to KNOW applies just as much to a significant % of the generation to which I belong. Felt this bit of source-clarification was necessary to illuminate what I was driving at and so the ideas being expressed would be taken for the intellectual observations and commentary (of a quite subjective nature, no argument) instead of just an anti-social rant.

Honestly, anyone who's seen The Mist knows that both actresses currently portraying Andrea and Carol in TWD could be INSTANTLY 5x more likeable with no other change than insisting the writers block out more of what comes from them as body language, facial expression etc, as opposed to dialog. They both clearly possess the ability to convey complex emotional and psychological reactions to fictional events with few to zero words spoken on their part. The fact that these quantifiable elements of their repertoire as actors aren't currently in play is SO noticeable that it MUST BE a deliberate choice on the part of writers & director(s). Again, no idea to what end such a deliberate choice might be made in pursuit of...but I believe it's a fairly well-supported conclusion if one looks past the DELIBERATELY ENGENDERED irritation and shallowness (that the Andrea character in particular is currently spewing) to realize that if the actress is capable of a better performance, it isn't a mistake or an accident that she's coming across as a shallow, self-satisfied annoying little b!t&h at the moment.

[kidgloves]

I hope your right Wyld.
I find myself particularly torn with how I feel about Laurie Holden/Andrea. On a base level she's extremely attractive to me. A quirky looking but beautiful woman. There's just something I've noticed since season 1, that Jon has highlighted, is her choice of physical acting to portray Andrea. IF that is a conscious choice by the creative team its been going on since the beginning. In the comic she's a very one note character. She's good with a gun and errrrrrrrm that's about it. That has changed recently due to current events but up until then she was just a cool kickass character. In the TV show her character is all over the place and im also finding it very difficult to work out whether its down to the writers or actress. Hopefully its down to some master plan as you say and not down to incompetence and bad execution.

[Wyldwraith]

Oh I'm not by any stretch of the imagination ruling out bad execution,
I'm simply RULING IN the notion that said execution could more believably be a result of the script/direction given the actress, than a deficit in her ability to portray a well-rounded believable character in the situation the characters find themselves within.

As one of the few "Transitioning Characters"...Ie: Characters whose marked rapid changes are supposed to be noticeable and describe a sort of characterization-narrative of their own, Andrea becomes the exception in that in addition to being part of this minority of rapidly-changing characters, she's been UNIQUE this season in having to deal with radical changes in her environment as well. Yes, the others found/occupied the prison, but they did it acting as part of a practiced, habitual, well-honed group dynamic in which each person clearly understood their place.

Then, pairing Andrea with a Michonne that has yet to take on a believably defined shape, amidst all these layers of deceit, self-deception and otherwise...it's like putting brick after brick in the actress's backpack and then wondering why she doesn't float as well as the others if u throw them all in the water. The remainder of the cast don't labor under a THIRD the challenges that the Andrea character is part of, and many of the challenges the actors of other characters ARE faced with are situations/ground very similar to things already done earlier in the show.

Andrew Lincoln's time as solo Rick was FAR more defined, because just as one knows a ball tossed upwards will begin to fall downwards eventually, the viewers (including those like myself who knew nothing about the comic version of TWD) understood 100% that Rick's singleminded hunt for Lori & Carl would be successful. So it's not a true parallel to Andrea's time alone in Woodbury, because there's no inevitable demanded-by-show-logistics certainty of where she must end up. In Rick's case, it was quite clear he was THE or at least A main character during his solo time, so while he might traverse challenges and experience setbacks, it was understood where his narrative-trajectory would eventually deposit him.

The Andrea character lacks any such impetus. Further, with the series trying to be so secretive in revealing the Governor's antics and Woodbury's true nature one slow piece at a time, there's little for a viewer to piece together in the way of expectations as to how "Andrea really SHOULD BE handling" the events transpiring in Woodbury. Couple this with the VERY CLEAR MISTAKE of the ultimatum-scene where Michonne just heads off alone (Which essentially was used as little more than convenient logistics to bring what little remains of Rick & Co. up to speed about the Governor/Woodbury etc), the fact the writers and directors are as deliberately trying to make Andrea appear as a gullible, self-centered blind little snarky bitch as they were deliberate in showing the end result of say, Shane's madness...and I'm left to wonder if it's even HUMANLY POSSIBLE that given the script, that Andrea appear likable/somewhat the viewers could relate with/root for at this time?

I had to do some serious reworking of how I thought about TWD characters after Season 2. Unlike most other shows I've ever been a fan of, the writing/directing influence is something felt DIRECTLY by the fans as something akin to fate for the characters. Ie: If they want you to perceive someone as a madman, a madman they shall be. If instead they want a deeply conflicted, at war with himself over pragmatic needs but ultimately a heroic and decent figure, then that's what you get.

There isn't much ambiguity in how one can read main characters. Which is why (I think at least), they work so hard on injecting that ambiguity instead into situations and supporting one-off characters the main characters encounter/face.

Just my .02, your value may vary.

[Buzzbomb]

...I think zombies shouldn't be privy to super senses in "death", that were denied to them in life. The idea that something could smell another thing because it doesn't stink of death is absurd. The "stinkier" smell of the rotting corpses would mask the "cleaner" smell of the humans anyway, regardless of whether the victim had guts splashed over them or not....

I don't think the walkers would notice their own smell, the same way we don't (usually) notice our own. I can suspend disbelief that the vomit inducing stench of death would act as a kind of deodorant, masking the survivors own smell of sweat & soap...

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, but I'd that agree that super senses, and other athletic super-powers (not to mention instant decay), are lazy cop-outs, that usually detract from the genre.

[shootemindehead]

I just think that it's an unnecessary and stupid addition that doesn't make any logical sense. I let it go because the series is generally great. To me though, it's almost in the run around zombie category. I'm dead, now I can smell better than ever! Or I'm dead, now I can run the 4 minute mile!

The instant decay thing is nuts as well, I can't stand that either.

[MinionZombie]

I just think that it's an unnecessary and stupid addition that doesn't make any logical sense. I let it go because the series is generally great. To me though, it's almost in the run around zombie category. I'm dead, now I can smell better than ever! Or I'm dead, now I can run the 4 minute mile!

The instant decay thing is nuts as well, I can't stand that either.

1) If they were working on normal human smell abilities, it would still be iffy as surely it'd be down to the difference in stink ... but zombies reek of decay and loose bowels, unlike humans (even if they're sweaty and haven't showered in weeks), so yeah, the 'science' behind it isn't exactly convincing. :p

Like you though, I can let that go as the sheer quality of everything else is so good.

2) Fortunately that's something we don't have to deal with in TWD. Their levels of decay are very intelligent ... indeed there was a very fresh-looking lady zombie in 3x07 as part of the crowd near the shack, as well as some proper gnarly ones. Nice that there's a mixture, and it's a nice little touch that tells the story of different people dying at different times.

[JonOfTheShred]

the fact the writers and directors are as deliberately trying to make Andrea appear as a gullible, self-centered blind little snarky bitch as they were deliberate in showing the end result of say, Shane's madness...and I'm left to wonder if it's even HUMANLY POSSIBLE that given the script, that Andrea appear likable/somewhat the viewers could relate with/root for at this time?

You might be on to something, Wyldwraith.

The caricature I'm describing, that Andrea has been pigeon-holed into....the same caricature Sonya Blade character from the Mortal Kombat web series I mentioned in another thread was also pigeon-holed into as well.....that caricature has only successfully worked ONE TIME that I can remember. And that was Agent Stahl in Sons of Anarchy.

http://the-rush-movie-trivia.ugo.com/images/challenges/2d87bc1d74a6cf30e56817d533506ae1.jpg

What a brilliant actress she was. It was a treat to see (SPOILER) Opie kill her after all the stuff Stahl had fucked up in her time on the show.(/SPOILER) Agent Stahl, to me, is the peak of "Snarky bitch" attitude that works really fucking well in the TV context. But she was a villain, and we were meant to hate her character. The actress actually got death threats in real life, people hated the character THAT BAD. That's some powerful acting. I thought she did a brilliant job of portraying a sociopath, power hungry agent. I never even considered that maybe the writers of Walking Dead are intentionally making Andrea a dis-likable character in the show to set her up for some ridiculous retribution later, or perhaps even to be Governors queen and antagonist for Rick and co. But maybe she'll save Daryls life from Merle or something to make up for almost killing him in Season 2, and for her horrible behavior throughout the series. Who knows?

As it stands, my favorite female character is Maggie, and it's not just because she's very friendly on the eyes, or because I'd challenge Glenn to a fist fight to the death in a steel cage for her heart. I think the actress portraying her is doing a great job.

I'd like Beth more if she had more characterization beyond the whole "SMILE GOOFILY AT CARL, RINSE, REPEAT" thing, which is getting old real fast. (Good for Carl, though.) I actually like Carol too, even though they kind of handled her whole "Disappear" thing kind of lamely. Hell, I even started to feel bad for Lori in Season 3, especially during her final scene; that shit was pretty intense. Amazing how they were able to make a character 99.99% of the viewers hated and give her one of the most effective death scenes in the shows history.

I also think Michonne is being portrayed pretty close to the comic - she's a bit over-the-top spiteful in some of her scenes, and should "lighten up" a little, but I expect that to happen in the second half of Season 3. Remember, that's exactly how she was in the comic book for a long time. Hell, she barely EVER opens up in the comic, maybe the show Michonne can have even more depth than her comic book counterpart.

But Andrea...oh Andrea. Even before Amy died Andrea was a bitch. Remember her flipping out on Rick from her very first scene? And just being a stuck up bitch in general from then on? She stood up for Carol with the abusive husband, sure, but that's the extent of her doing ANYTHING NICE for the group. That and catching fish with Amy. Amy was kind of lame too, that actress was very weird, spoke really awkwardly, like out of the side of her face or something. She didn't exactly have time to grow on the show, though. And to be fair, it doesn't help that Andrea looks strikingly similar to an ex-GF of mine that played head games for a number of years, something a friend of mine pointed out to me after I went on an Andrea rant. :elol: Let's hope they can turn Andreas character around and make her interesting.

As it stands, Andrea reminds me of Donna from the comics more than any other character. And the actress portraying her seems to have taken notes from Agent Stahl of Sons of Anarchy. Coincidentally, Donna redeemed herself in the comic by being happy for Andrea and Dales unorthodox relationship.

[mista_mo]

I dont find Andrea that attractive. There is just something off about her face...it looks smooshed, like her skull was forced through a printing press when she was born. Yuck.

[ProfessorChaos]

But Andrea...oh Andrea. Even before Amy died Andrea was a bitch. Remember her flipping out on Rick from her very first scene? And just being a stuck up bitch in general from then on? She stood up for Carol with the abusive husband, sure, but that's the extent of her doing ANYTHING NICE for the group. That and catching fish with Amy. Amy was kind of lame too, that actress was very weird, spoke really awkwardly, like out of the side of her face or something. She didn't exactly have time to grow on the show, though. And to be fair, it doesn't help that Andrea looks strikingly similar to an ex-GF of mine that played head games for a number of years, something a friend of mine pointed out to me after I went on an Andrea rant. :elol: Let's hope they can turn Andreas character around and make her interesting.

As it stands, Andrea reminds me of Donna from the comics more than any other character. And the actress portraying her seems to have taken notes from Agent Stahl of Sons of Anarchy. Coincidentally, Donna redeemed herself in the comic by being happy for Andrea and Dales unorthodox relationship.

yeah, i was actually thinking the other day that they should have had the actress who played amy cast as andrea, and found some younger girl to play amy. i think it would've been a much better representation of the character from the comics, not only in looks, but age, attitude, etc.

hard to believe they could fuck up a character so badly. the andrea from the show is worthless. like you said, her debut scene had her pointing a gun at rick's face, then she wanted to just "opt out" at the CDC, she acted like a total cunt to lori about how she provided "security" around the farm (like the time she almost took daryl's head off), then allowing beth to try and kill herself and her nonchalant attitude towards maggie about the whole thing, refusing to listen to michonne and staying at woodbury for the whiskey and sex.....ugh. the list of andrea's fails goes on and on.

the only worthwhile scenes she's been in throughout two and a half seasons is when she had to put amy down (that was a pretty damn good scene, probably one of the best in the series thus far) and the ones where she's showing lots of skin while living it up in the governor's love-shack.

i'd seriously be cheering if they just killed her off. out of all the character's who've died, i'd gladly have any one of them still around in place of andrea. her character is beyond the point of saving, in my opinion.

[Neil]

like her skull was forced through a printing press when she was born. Yuck.

Slightly harsh don't you think?

[shootemindehead]

I dont find Andrea that attractive...

You and me both Mo.

She's a bit of a woof.

[JonOfTheShred]

Pace is still really moving along. Glenn and Maggie now captive at Woodbury. Andrea spreading her legs for "Phillip." Michonne shot and wounded, found her way to the prison. Rick went through his entire "insanity phase" in the space of an episode, getting closure from that final telephone call. (Brushing side that arc instead of focusing on it kinda makes sense.) And Carol discovered by Daryl.

I wonder if...

Maggie is going to replace Michonne as the torture victim at Woodbury? And Glenn would go into a rage? Perhaps Rick and Co. will go after them instead of the other way around, this time, attacking the governments place as 'the savages' to get their friends back? Although their numbers certainly aren't strong at all.

Looks like my prediction was 100% correct. I was just reading through my old posts and noticed I had predicted the mid-season finale, nice! Not that it was all that difficult to figure out

[Wyldwraith]

With much more into-season-three knowledge,
I have to say that, IMHO at least, my theory that it's the scriptwriting at fault for the downswing in likeability, realism etc...of several characters, notably Andrea but Rick is getting his fair share of it, plus Glenn/Maggie...

I find it difficult to bust the actor/actress's chops when the words literally put in their mouths, and the directing literally controlling their body movements via blocking results in a stupid, puerile, and infuriatingly frustrating dive in the quality of this or that character's behavior. Andrea's "Inspiring Speech" in Woodbury....my God, as others have made the comparison...it's 5x worse than Bill Pullman's "Our Independence Day" speech in Independence Day right before the big aerial battle versus the mothership. That's really saying something!

To me, this issue isn't nitpicking. Making characters unlikable shatters our desire to root for their survival and success in the zombie apocalypse...and caring about the protagonists is an absolute, no possible argument to the contrary, story element of any zombie movie/TV show that aspires to more than 80s camp-schlock gore.

We know Andrew Lincoln is a good actor, so this half of the season the irritating traits/behaviors he's exhibiting in high-school-level melodramatic fashion must, AGAIN, be laid at the doorstep of those truly responsible. The writers, and whoever is pulling their strings from AMC.

The same holds true for Holden. That actress PROVED she's 10x better than her absolute best-moment-to-date in TWD, while acting in The Mist. Yes, they're different cinematic environments...but not so different that an actress capable of nuanced performance would, episode after episode, be responsible for her character being a one-note/no dimension being..that's maddeningly irritating, gullible when convenient..and so all-over-the-place in her motivations/convictions as to be comparable to a schizophrenic in full-blown crisis.

Or, to use The Mist another way. Look at her WORST moments in that movie. You'll find even her worst there has been better than her best in TWD. If that's not a persuasive argument that it's the writing/directing at the heart of the ass-hattery and douchebaggedness of some characters this season, I don't know what could convince someone.

TWD writers need to take a deep breath and mentally return to the detail and nuance of Season 1 if they wish to halt this downward spiral. This IS something that while annoying now, COULD ultimately sink the show over time. So yes, I feel the issue of who/what is causing the poorer performances by various members of the cast this season a very serious issue.