Do Fran and Stephen even like each other?

[darth los]

I saw Dotd again Last night and there's no evidence that they even like each other. Sure he consoles her at times, but he counters that with a couple of scenes that seem to border on contempt. After she gets attacked by Hari krishna and she snaps out of her catatonic state the boys decide to go out and block the entrances. After her near death experience Fran confronts them with a list of demands. She insists that she be considered an equal, wants to put her 2 cents into the plans, wants to learn how to fly the helicopter and last but not least wants a (gasp) gun!!! All reasonable demands,but Stephen gives her this look along with an attitude like "woman, can't you see that me and the boys are busy playing hero and living out our wildest fantasies?". Wimpy, clutzy stephen is finally one of the boys and Here comes fran ****ing all over it. Fast forward to when Fran is dealing with a bout of morning sickness and makes a beeline toward the toilet:barf: Stephen follows her in and gives her the only eyeroll, like "woman are you puking again?" ON Fran's part we have the infamous engagement snub. What a blow to the ego. Now people, if a woman truly loves a man that's like the ultimate thing she's been waiting for. I don't care if an asteroid is going to collide with the earth in 5 minutes she'll say yes. Don't give me that "it just wouldn't be real crap". In fact they never actually share a tender moment in the film.The most tender moment is shared by two men- Roger and Peter- You know that scene where rogers says that he's going to try not to come back. Sure we see an after sex scene between Stephen and Fran. Again the way the scene is shot it looks like it was all business. Like he's a john and she's a call girl, no passion.Then you have all that tension in the air when she's angry that he still has the tv on even though there hasn't been a broadcast for three days. How would you like to be Peter in the middle of those death rays being exchanged? Well just some food for thought.

[axlish]

I think the relationship was pretty damn realistic if you ask me. The marriage wouldn't have been real. Who would have married them, assuming Fran is a firm believer in Christian values? It doesn't help that Stephen is essentially a worthless goof, incapable of fulfilling his basic manly duties. I also think that Stephen was contemplating suicide (the note he types on the typewriter "Now is the time") which only adds to his overwhelming ineptitude.

[AcesandEights]

I think the relationship was pretty damn realistic if you ask me.

I agree. Considering money problems are one of the biggest source of problems in relationships (or wait, is that exclusively marriages?), I'd have to say that a zombie induced holocaust would be ripe breeding ground for conflict. It basically acted as a means of plowing out all the social detritus and pretenses of everyday life that would normally lead them to go on with their shadowplay of pretending who they are, and what they could be to one another, and neither of them had time to look past their more immediate concerns and desires to invest time in a healthy relationship.

The fact that they run back to the relative safehaven of their relationship (with a 'romantic dinner' and sleeping together) shouldn't be used to prove how much they loved one another (something which is arguable at best), rather it should be looked at as two people trying to 'lose themsleves' in the fantasy of one another and their archtypal idea of living happily ever after' in an attempt to forget the sense of loss at their old lives and--more importantly--it acts as a means to stave off the sense of dread and hopelessness as the illusion of their safety fades and the realization of their probable doom looms larger in their minds.

[creepntom]

he knocked her up, there couldn't have been too much hate going on

unless they were into grudge sex :eek:

[darth los]

All that proves is that they had sex twice.

[Graebel]

I'd have to say that a zombie induced holocaust would be ripe breeding ground for conflict.

I disagree. I think you'd have some awesome, crazy sex. After all, you might die tomorrow.:sneaky:

[AcesandEights]

I disagree. I think you'd have some awesome, crazy sex. After all, you might die tomorrow.:sneaky:

Who says you're disagreeing with me? I'm talking about the difficulty of love within the context of a social vacuum, not how hot sex could be when the biggest thrill of being caught in a public place has suddenly been replaced by being caught and devoured in toto even as your lover screams and writhes beneath you--is she having her arm wrenched out of its socket, or just trying to enjoy one last second of bliss before terror roils over her? :p

[Graebel]

Who says you're disagreeing with me? I'm talking about the difficulty of love within the context of a social vacuum, not how hot sex could be when the biggest thrill of being caught in a public place has suddenly been replaced by being caught and devoured in toto even as your lover screams and writhes beneath you--is she having her arm wrenched out of its socket, or just trying to enjoy one last second of bliss before terror roils over her? :p

I meant if I was safe in a mall.

[AcesandEights]

But I'm taking it from the point of view that they were never safe in the mall; everything had changed, and on some level they knew this.

But I'm sure the sex could have been hair ripping, back shredding and bowlegging for some time.

[Graebel]

But I'm taking it from the point of view that they were never safe in the mall; everything had changed, and on some level they knew this.

That's what booze is for. :D

[AcesandEights]

That's what booze is for. :D

Well, I can agree with that. Alcohol isn't called the great social lubricator* for nothing :D


*I think I just made that up, but somebody must have said it before….

[MapMan]

I would have taken the nurse zombie. She was all over the damn place just trying to find some love.:D

[MinionZombie]

Nah I think they liked each other, it was just a realistic relationship on the rocks - especially because of the whole zombie situation, you're not gonna get much lovin' in such times I guess, lol. You can see their relationship deteriorating throughout their stay in the mall, but clearly Fran still loved the dafty as she's proper gutted he's been zombified and then when Steven gets the old bullet labotomy she's utterly gutted.

[coma]

Maybe
Stevens a pilot, Old skool macho man stuff. The Crisis proves he ain't so tough after all, ecspecially compared to Roger and Peter. Maybe Fran, under the duress, is proving to be more capable, showing him up even more, making Steven more threatened. He is afraid she won't need him, with the target shooting and her learning to fly etc. He was also threatened by Fran having the firearm because it was obvious he couldn't protect her.
No self esteem = no blood flow to the doodad.

I think all of that is one of the best parts of the film. Great example of High Quality characterization. Very astute analysis, darth los and everyone else.

[OddDNA]

Maybe
Stevens a pilot, Old skool macho man stuff. The Crisis proves he ain't so tough after all, ecspecially compared to Roger and Peter. Maybe Fran, under the duress, is proving to be more capable, showing him up even more, making Steven more threatened. He is afraid she won't need him, with the target shooting and her learning to fly etc. He was also threatened by Fran having the firearm because it was obvious he couldn't protect her.
No self esteem = no blood flow to the doodad.

I think all of that is one of the best parts of the film. Great example of High Quality characterization. Very astute analysis, darth los and everyone else.

Perfect...what I wanted to say but was too lazy to type :) +1 rep for you.

Extra note, he may have gotten defensive since she countered he decisions in front of the other guys...even guys that like 50/50 relationships no man wants to be one up by his GF in front of other guys.

[darth los]

Perfect...what I wanted to say but was too lazy to type :) +1 rep for you.

Extra note, he may have gotten defensive since she countered he decisions in front of the other guys...even guys that like 50/50 relationships no man wants to be one up by his GF in front of other guys.

Very true. As much as men and women being equal is the P.C. thing to say there are differences. Just as a man should know that even though their better half maybe acting like a B**ch you just can't call her one, and vice versa even though your man is an inept goof you can't show him up like that in front of other guys. Either way the man ends up kissing a** in private anyway. Like after she heard the guys having the abortion conversation. As soon as Stephen got into the back room he was falling all over himself. Come to think of it I would have too. She is the only game in town.

[axlish]

He was also threatened by Fran having the firearm because it was obvious he couldn't protect her.

Perfect! That exchange between Steven and Fran always seemed off to me, but that nails it perfectly. That look he gives her says exactly what you typed. It is the same look he'd have given her if she had asked Peter or Roger to come over Saturday afternoon and fix the car.

[Eyebiter]

You also have to put the relationship in the context of the late 1970's. At the time the role of women in American society was in flux.

1. The introduction of the birth control pill in the 60's allowed unmarried women a freedom to explore premarital sex without the spectre of an unwanted pregnancy. It was no longer socially "necessary" for a man and woman to marry to conceive a child.
2. During the 70's the Equal Rights Amendement was a widely debated issue here in the US. The idea that women could do any job that men could do. While some women subscribed to the feminist ideology, many men continued to act in a more traditional fashion.
3. Eary in the film Fran didn't really have the skills to take care of herself. Note how she freezes at the airport when confronted with a few zombies. Later after training she begins to get more confidence in her abilities. As she learns new things (firing weapons, how to fly the helicopter) her former subserviant role to Flyboy changes.

It could be argued that Flyboy was simply trying to do the right thing by Fran, and he couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to get married. People change, but when your trapped in a shopping mall surrounded by zombies your options to break up are limited.

[Debbieangel]

You also have to put the relationship in the context of the late 1970's. At the time the role of women in American society was in flux.

1. The introduction of the birth control pill in the 60's allowed unmarried women a freedom to explore premarital sex without the spectre of an unwanted pregnancy. It was no longer socially "necessary" for a man and woman to marry to conceive a child.
2. During the 70's the Equal Rights Amendement was a widely debated issue here in the US. The idea that women could do any job that men could do. While some women subscribed to the feminist ideology, many men continued to act in a more traditional fashion.
3. Eary in the film Fran didn't really have the skills to take care of herself. Note how she freezes at the airport when confronted with a few zombies. Later after training she begins to get more confidence in her abilities. As she learns new things (firing weapons, how to fly the helicopter) her former subserviant role to Flyboy changes.

It could be argued that Flyboy was simply trying to do the right thing by Fran, and he couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to get married. People change, but when your trapped in a shopping mall surrounded by zombies your options to break up are limited.

I beg to differ with you a bit I lived in those times and you never told even your best friend if your were having sex and woah getting pregnant was a very big NO NO...you were then labeled a loosey goosey, a slut, a whore,a bad girl, whatever you wanted to call her and she would be a social outcast. Especially from where I come from you would not be allowed to associate with her. There was an old saying about birds of a featherstick together.
So, Fran could have been going through that it doesnt say anything in the movie about her family or if she told them but that would be a big scarey thing to do to tell your parents you were pregnant and not married. I know she is older than a teenager but, still think of the times it just wasnt done.You were supposed to be a virgin when you got married thats why the white wedding dress and you werent supposed to wear white if you werent one...so we didnt tell.
It was a beginning in the 60's and 70's free l ove and all that but, that was the hippy culture. I would say now its more acceptable for people having kids living together then getting married.

[axlish]

More random mumblings:

We don't even know how serious their relationship is at the beginning of the movie. What do we know? They both work together, so that is probably where they met. Heck, Fran is already divorced once, so I don't think she'll be wearing a white dress if she married Stephen. They could simply be bang-buddies that got careless and made a baby. When the zombie apocalypse comes down, there is no gurantee that the relationship you'll be in at the time will be a magical one. The relationship could have ended soon in the real world.

[Debbieangel]

More random mumblings:

We don't even know how serious their relationship is at the beginning of the movie. What do we know? They both work together, so that is probably where they met. Heck, Fran is already divorced once, so I don't think she'll be wearing a white dress if she married Stephen. They could simply be bang-buddies that got careless and made a baby. When the zombie apocalypse comes down, there is no gurantee that the relationship you'll be in at the time will be a magical one. The relationship could have ended soon in the real world.

I was just stating in that time sex wasnt a social thing that was done easily then forget it...I am talking from a womans point of view...women do think differently then men...sex is not just like a candy mint you eat after dinner, there are feelings that go with sex giving yourself up like that...HELP me girls!!!!
I must be thinking like the last generation(which I am from) does it matter anymore or what? enlighten me please??Where in the movie does it say Fran was divorced? sorry this is still rambling this subject on on but, I just wanna know?

[axlish]

When they leave in the chopper:

108 In the cockpit, Fran lights a cigarette. So does Roger. No one
comments, but Peter smiles slightly.

The big Black looks down at the city.

Peter: ANY OF YOU LEAVIN' PEOPLE BEHIND?

Fran: AN EX-HUSBAND.

Roger: AN EX-WIFE.

Steve: YOU, PETER?

Peter: (still looking down)
SOME BROTHERS.

[Dingo]

This may be slightly off the subject of "Do Fran and Stephen even like each other?", but I feel this is ironic. Throughout the film you see Stephen trying to fit in the best way he can with Roger and Peter though he always seems like an outcast. I'm not sure if I am thinking too deeply about this but isn't it ironic that Stephen becomes somewhat of a "leader" when he becomes a zombie by leading the rest of them into their hiding space? It seems to me that once he turned he became exactly what he wanted to be the whole time, a leader. The fact that he is leading the villain of the film makes it that more ironic. Just my thoughts.

[Philly_SWAT]

There is a ton of good responses in this thread. My two cents....

First of all, I disagree that they dont even like each other. Like several others have mentioned, the whole "zombie holocaust" thing going on would be sure to strain any relationship. Darth Los, you say....
After she gets attacked by Hari krishna and she snaps out of her catatonic state the boys decide to go out and block the entrances.I say that considering the situation, normal consoling time had to be cut to a minimum, and blocking the entraces as quickly as possible had to take precendence over spending quality time consoling Fran. Everything in life depends on the situation. If you or I broke our arm, we would be out of work for a while, then back on light duty for a while. If an NFL lineman breaks his arm, they slap a cast on and he plays a football game the next week. You then say
After her near death experience Fran confronts them with a list of demands. She insists that she be considered an equal, wants to put her 2 cents into the plans, wants to learn how to fly the helicopter and last but not least wants a (gasp) gun!!! All reasonable demands,but Stephen gives her this look along with an attitude like "woman, can't you see that me and the boys are busy playing hero and living out our wildest fantasies?". Wimpy, clutzy stephen is finally one of the boys and Here comes fran ****ing all over it. Fast forward to when Fran is dealing with a bout of morning sickness and makes a beeline toward the toilet Stephen follows her in and gives her the only eyeroll, like "woman are you puking again?"I think that at the time, Flyboy was confronted with a wide range of emotions. He was thrust into this situation, not of his choosing, and was ill-equipped to handle the situation or his emotions. Peter and Roger in general were brave fighters, beings SWAT team members. Plus, they had been fighting the zombies for three weeks. Stephen was a pilot and traffic reporter. The whole concept of what they were doing was brand new to him. Like any man, he wanted to be big and brave and protect his woman, but he was not up to the task, especially in comparison to the only other two men around. So Fran, who was physically not up to the task at all, when not under direct attack was very smart, and had good ideas. By bringing them up, she was showing how FLyboy was lacking in the thought-processes as well. SHe didnt mean it as a slight, but he took it that way. She would be foolish to not offer suggestions in order to save his feelings, taking into account that they were literally in a life or death situation. I think in the puking scene, he wasnt rolling his eyes in a "woman are you puking again?" type way, but in a "I am your man and you wont let me fufill a manly duty of comforting you" kind of way. Again, kudos to Fran for not wanting to appear to be the weak link among the 4, but unintentionally again, taking something away from Flyboys manhood.
ON Fran's part we have the infamous engagement snub. What a blow to the ego. Now people, if a woman truly loves a man that's like the ultimate thing she's been waiting for. I don't care if an asteroid is going to collide with the earth in 5 minutes she'll say yes. Don't give me that "it just wouldn't be real crap". In fact they never actually share a tender moment in the film.I am not sure that I agree with you here. People are widley different in how they would think or act in different situations. With zombies literally banging on the door, there is no guarantee what any one of us would do. And it wouldnt "be real". Marriage is a legal arrangment for tax purposes, etc. No tax man is gonna be bothering them. And the ceremony is more of a celebration for family and friends than a necesity for the couple. No family and friends around in the mall. And if someone going out to bar too often is reason for a woman turing a marriage proposal down, you dont think that the dead walking the earth might cause someone to act in a way different from the way they normally would?
Sure we see an after sex scene between Stephen and Fran. Again the way the scene is shot it looks like it was all business. Like he's a john and she's a call girl, no passion.This is true, but I dont think it should be read into it that they didnt care for each other, or that they didnt love each other, but more the depression of the situation and how empty all of their loves had become. After the initial thrill of being in the mall and being able to take anything you wanted was over, now what? They had all the material wealth they could ever want, but what good was it?

Also, to axlish, you wrote
I also think that Stephen was contemplating suicide (the note he types on the typewriter "Now is the time") which only adds to his overwhelming ineptitude.
I disagree with you here. I dont think he was contemplating suicide at all, but starting a old-school typewriter saying, which is "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid their party". My grandfather used to say that, along with "the quick brown fox jumped over the low stone wall". Just something to type that uses a bunch of the keys so you can see if the typewriter is working good or not.

[axlish]

disagree with you here. I dont think he was contemplating suicide at all, but starting a old-school typewriter saying, which is "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid their party". My grandfather used to say that, along with "the quick brown fox jumped over the low stone wall". Just something to type that uses a bunch of the keys so you can see if the typewriter is working good or not.

We had a discussion on this on the old forum. Yes, I realize that the sentence was used to train people how to type. I think it is significant where he chose to end that sentence, don't you? Also, consider that the typing scene takes place inside of what I call Dawn's melancholy montage, in the few minutes following Fran's rejection. Suicide contemplation would certainly explain his actions a little better in the final reel.

Oh, and it's "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"

[Philly_SWAT]

Oh, and it's "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"I know this sentence uses more letters than the "low stone wall", however, my grandfather didnt say lazy dog, he said low stone wall.
I think it is significant where he chose to end that sentence, don't you? I could see why you would say that, but I dont think it is that significant. If it is the old typewriter saying, which I think it is, and also GAR purposely decided to have him stop there to add significance, that would be a lot of thought into a minute detail. Considering all the more obviously flubs that were left in the finished movie, I cant think this was designed so well as to have a split second, deep meaning as opposed to he just stopped the sentence there.

[axlish]

I know this sentence uses more letters than the "low stone wall", however, my grandfather didnt say lazy dog, he said low stone wall.I could see why you would say that, but I dont think it is that significant. If it is the old typewriter saying, which I think it is, and also GAR purposely decided to have him stop there to add significance, that would be a lot of thought into a minute detail. Considering all the more obviously flubs that were left in the finished movie, I cant think this was designed so well as to have a split second, deep meaning as opposed to he just stopped the sentence there.


There were at least three camera set ups for that particular typewriter sequence. I think it was more significant than you do. Suicide was very much in the mind of the writer, seeing as how Fran and Peter choose that option in the original treatment.

[OddDNA]

Dont you think she may have saw it as we are getting married now because I am the only option...that is not real...what marriage is really about.

I think she may have wanted a man to pick here because he loved her more than the millions of other women he meets in a day not because he loves her enought to marry her when he is an outcast and she is the only women that he knows that he will proboly ever see again.

BTW this is one of the best threads ever for points of view that I remember

[Philly_SWAT]

There were at least three camera set ups for that particular typewriter sequence. I think it was more significant than you do. Suicide was very much in the mind of the writer, seeing as how Fran and Peter choose that option in the original treatment.
I will have to go back and look. I thought it was in the Cannes cut only, and that GAR cut it out for the theatrical release, which if that is right, seems like it wasnt that significant.

Also, in the origianal treatment, Fran and Peter did that only after Flyboy was dead, their apartment was overrun, and there was no hope left. Flyboy was sitting comfortable in the mall at the time he used the typewriter. I take it that he used the typewriter for the same reason he took a picture of Fran. He still had hope, and was just goofing around.

[darth los]

There is a ton of good responses in this thread. My two cents....

First of all, I disagree that they dont even like each other. Like several others have mentioned, the whole "zombie holocaust" thing going on would be sure to strain any relationship. Darth Los, you say....I say that considering the situation, normal consoling time had to be cut to a minimum, and blocking the entraces as quickly as possible had to take precendence over spending quality time consoling Fran. Everything in life depends on the situation. If you or I broke our arm, we would be out of work for a while, then back on light duty for a while. If an NFL lineman breaks his arm, they slap a cast on and he plays a football game the next week. You then sayI think that at the time, Flyboy was confronted with a wide range of emotions. He was thrust into this situation, not of his choosing, and was ill-equipped to handle the situation or his emotions. Peter and Roger in general were brave fighters, beings SWAT team members. Plus, they had been fighting the zombies for three weeks. Stephen was a pilot and traffic reporter. The whole concept of what they were doing was brand new to him. Like any man, he wanted to be big and brave and protect his woman, but he was not up to the task, especially in comparison to the only other two men around. So Fran, who was physically not up to the task at all, when not under direct attack was very smart, and had good ideas. By bringing them up, she was showing how FLyboy was lacking in the thought-processes as well. SHe didnt mean it as a slight, but he took it that way. She would be foolish to not offer suggestions in order to save his feelings, taking into account that they were literally in a life or death situation. I think in the puking scene, he wasnt rolling his eyes in a "woman are you puking again?" type way, but in a "I am your man and you wont let me fufill a manly duty of comforting you" kind of way. Again, kudos to Fran for not wanting to appear to be the weak link among the 4, but unintentionally again, taking something away from Flyboys manhood. I am not sure that I agree with you here. People are widley different in how they would think or act in different situations. With zombies literally banging on the door, there is no guarantee what any one of us would do. And it wouldnt "be real". Marriage is a legal arrangment for tax purposes, etc. No tax man is gonna be bothering them. And the ceremony is more of a celebration for family and friends than a necesity for the couple. No family and friends around in the mall. And if someone going out to bar too often is reason for a woman turing a marriage proposal down, you dont think that the dead walking the earth might cause someone to act in a way different from the way they normally would?This is true, but I dont think it should be read into it that they didnt care for each other, or that they didnt love each other, but more the depression of the situation and how empty all of their loves had become. After the initial thrill of being in the mall and being able to take anything you wanted was over, now what? They had all the material wealth they could ever want, but what good was it?

Also, to axlish, you wroteI disagree with you here. I dont think he was contemplating suicide at all, but starting a old-school typewriter saying, which is "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid their party". My grandfather used to say that, along with "the quick brown fox jumped over the low stone wall". Just something to type that uses a bunch of the keys so you can see if the typewriter is working good or not.

Great stuff dude, that goes for everyone. I think it's cool that you don't agree with me on virtually any of my observations, but I did ask you guys for your opinion on the subject. Very interesting interpretation. Thats, the whole concept of a thread. If we all agreed there would be no point in a discussion. The posts on this thread have given me things to think about on the subject that I havn't thought of before as I hope i've done in turn. This is what sets GAR'S movies apart from the wanna bees. Character development. Social commentary. He makes us care about what happens to the characters in his films. He let's us in. Gore and zombies are actually just a small part of what is actually going on. There must be a dozen socially based discussions spanning GAR'S dead films that we can have just like this one and we won't even have to mention zombies.

[red max]

Even more than "I don't want you to leave me without a gun", the most galling thing for Stephen is surely when Fran quite sensibly declares that she wants to learn to fly the helicopter. That's his one advantage over the others, and she wants to him to share the knowledge. Not only that, she's thinking quite calmly about dealing with events if he should die. I'd have been a little upset by her matter-of-factness!

BUT...when he's actually teaching her he warmly says "You got it!" and she gives a delighted squeal and hugs him. That's probably their warmest moment.

[axlish]

BUT...when he's actually teaching her he warmly says "You got it!" and she gives a delighted squeal and hugs him. That's probably their warmest moment.

Easily. Their greatest moment as a couple also happens to be the same moment that Stephen's fate was sealed. Very interesting.

[EvilNed]

Even more than "I don't want you to leave me without a gun", the most galling thing for Stephen is surely when Fran quite sensibly declares that she wants to learn to fly the helicopter. That's his one advantage over the others, and she wants to him to share the knowledge. Not only that, she's thinking quite calmly about dealing with events if he should die. I'd have been a little upset by her matter-of-factness!

I think he was a little annoyed and felt a bit pushed aside at first, but reason probably got to him which is why he's so cheerfull during the actual training.

[Trencher]

Maybe she just dated him in the beggining because he had the cool helicopter and got "unlucky"?

[HLS]

Well did they not share the same bed? i think they were in a relationship but not too serious.


Easily. Their greatest moment as a couple also happens to be the same moment that Stephen's fate was sealed. Very interesting.

But he made such an awesome zombie!

[MissJacksonCA]

Figures! She was prolly planning on leaving him and then what d'ya know? Zombies come to life and your man has a helicopter and now its time to suck up. Dangnabbit! She was upset and she had every right to be. Stephen left her alone to be attacked by the Hare Krishna. He was the least gun savvy of the men and certainly you'd feel he'd be the worst person to hope would save you. He was totally embarassing when he nearly killed Peter. And he just wasn't man enough for a zombie world which is why he ended up dying in the end. He was however a great zombie. Plus of course i'm sure she was fatigued that she was pregnant and would have to risk life to give birth.

[darth los]

Figures! She was prolly planning on leaving him and then what d'ya know? Zombies come to life and your man has a helicopter and now its time to suck up. Dangnabbit! She was upset and she had every right to be. Stephen left her alone to be attacked by the Hare Krishna. He was the least gun savvy of the men and certainly you'd feel he'd be the worst person to hope would save you. He was totally embarassing when he nearly killed Peter. And he just wasn't man enough for a zombie world which is why he ended up dying in the end. He was however a great zombie. Plus of course i'm sure she was fatigued that she was pregnant and would have to risk life to give birth.


So she had no choice , huh? :lol: :lol: It's funny how people stay in relationship way after they cease to be viable. The next best reason is bills. I'm not leaving the relationship if it means that i have to be without cable for an extended period, that's for sure. I just love it when you add the woman's perspective. It's funny as sh1t. Mostly cause it's true.

[MissJacksonCA]

That would suck. I prolly wouldn't leave a relationship until I could get cable. But i'm a cheater so I'm scum anyway lol

[darth los]

That would suck. I prolly wouldn't leave a relationship until I could get cable. But i'm a cheater so I'm scum anyway lol



That's ok. You're still young , you need to get all that out of your system in order to settle down anyway. Come to think of it, i'd struggle to give you 3 good reasons to be faithfull anyway, CHEERS :D.

[MissJacksonCA]

I never settle for anything there's always something better right around the corner

[MissJacksonCA]

I just watch it and its no wonder she doesn't like him ...when Roger and Peter go 'hit and run' and raid the department store and Fran hears all the firing and wakes Stephen he takes the rifle Peter gave her for protection so he could go join them. I mean its like HE didnt care about her safety at all. Of course how smart was she not going up to the chopper and waiting for them there...

[darth los]

There were countless times in the film where he was emasculated. I think the pre-occupation he had with "being a man" like the other two and trying to prove himself clouded his judgment on alot of things. That mentality is one of the factors that contributed to getting him killed. Lesson here: don't try and be something your not kids. It will end badly.:(

[capncnut]

Darth, I have noticed this too, they are one frosty couple. In fact, if GAR hadn't have stated so in that one sentence of the script (where Flyboy rubs her belly), I would never have believed it was his baby. They look so at odds with each other it's hard to not to notice.


After she gets attacked by Hari krishna and she snaps out of her catatonic state the boys decide to go out and block the entrances...
Not long after this scene, Flyboy announces Fran's pregnancy to the others. He is visibly embarrassed and appears to be staring at the floor/wall when he tells them. The scene after where they talk about setting up a house, Flyboy dismisses every comment she has to say. If he loved her that much, he would've listened to his woman's worries as she had a lot of valid points. Oh and that cigarette would've been removed from her mouth straight away.

This dismissal of Fran's input continues over to the next scene.


...after her near death experience Fran confronts them with a list of demands. She insists that she be considered an equal, wants to put her 2 cents into the plans, wants to learn how to fly the helicopter and last but not least wants a (gasp) gun!!! All reasonable demands, but Stephen gives her this look along with an attitude like "woman, can't you see that me and the boys are busy playing hero and living out our wildest fantasies?".

Indeed, and again her comments were valid enough for Peter to say "fair enough." After she reels off her demands, the way Flyboy looks at her when he slams the bullets down on the box is pure disrespectful - this woman is having his kid for f**k's sake! She notices his anger and tries to apologise, "Stephen, be careful." He dismisses her again, "yeah, we'll be alright." Why doesn't he hold her and tell her it's okay? Why would he run the risk of alienating the only person on the planet he can empty his nutsack into? What a dickhead!


Fast forward to when Fran is dealing with a bout of morning sickness and makes a beeline toward the toilet:barf: Stephen follows her in and gives her the only eyeroll, like "woman are you puking again?"
Now I never noticed an eyeroll here (maybe I need to view this scene again) but one thing I did see was another act of disrespect on Flyboy's part. She's puking and what does he do? Lifts her chin up. What is she? A ragdoll?


On Fran's part we have the infamous engagement snub. What a blow to the ego. Now people, if a woman truly loves a man that's like the ultimate thing she's been waiting for. I don't care if an asteroid is going to collide with the earth in 5 minutes she'll say yes. Don't give me that "it just wouldn't be real crap". In fact they never actually share a tender moment in the film.
More evidence. In fact why didn't she say yes for the hell of it? Life has gone past the average 'realistic scenario' so it wouldn't have hurt to have indulged in a little roleplay. Hell, it might've brought them closer together. Plus there's still the 'what if' factor, like what if society ever restored itself to normality again?


Sure we see an after sex scene between Stephen and Fran. Again the way the scene is shot it looks like it was all business. Like he's a john and she's a call girl, no passion.Then you have all that tension in the air when she's angry that he still has the tv on even though there hasn't been a broadcast for three days.
Completely agree on most counts you've raised there Darth buddy. Seriously, they have to be the most loveless couple I have ever seen in a movie. :dead:

[MissJacksonCA]

I also wondered if the baby Fran was pregnant with was Stephens lovechild. They're frosty to each other but hey ... isn't that what most married people are like? And in a dead world aren't you basically married to the one person who's left? Not lierally married but lets face it... that literally could be the last person you're on earth with.

[capncnut]

If my mind serves me correctly, in the book version Fran was married at a young age to some guy. Whether she cheated behind his back with Stephen, I'm not sure but it's an interesting question.

[MissJacksonCA]

I'm sorry did you just say there was a book? Because I thnk you just said there was a book and my heart stopped.

[capncnut]

Yes, George A. Romero and Suzanna Sparrow collaborated on a book version of Dawn Of The Dead. It's a neat little adaptation, you should check it out. :cool:

[darth los]

Completely agree on most counts you've raised there Darth buddy. Seriously, they have to be the most loveless couple I have ever seen in a movie. :dead:


I think i have one better cap and we don't even have to go outside the trilogy.:D Fran and Stephen are second in frostiness only to the frigid relationship of Harry and Helen Cooper imo.( It's definitely up for debate though).


I'm sorry did you just say there was a book? Because I thnk you just said there was a book and my heart stopped.


I agree cap, any fan of the film should check it out. I don't want to ruin it for you but it goes into much greater detail. There are also other characters and scenes.

[RustyHicks]

Actually, I always thought Franny had sort of a thing for Roger:rockbrow:

When the four are on the balcony and looking over the slaughter the men just did, Roger is struggling to get out of the basket. Franny has this real sad look on her face before she walks away.

Then look at the smile she gives him when he's by himself in that cart, watching Peter and Stephen clean up the place. Just as she is putting a set of plates into his cart.

Then in the europian version, when she is pushing his cart to the fountain, just before she walks away, if you look close, you'll see her lean over and pat his cheek.

Then when they have a small burial for Roger, Franny can't take it and sits on the benches.

Just seems like she had a little more tenderness for Roger than she did for Stephen:p

[darth los]

I think it was more of a maternal instinct to care for someone who was injured. She's a woman that's what they do. Roger was obviously a friend of hers also, i have no doubt of that. However, all the examples you listed happened after he was bitten which seems to support my theory. She just felt bad for him knowing was he was going to turn into and what lay ahead for him. Plus she knew he wasn't going to be around much longer so why not lavish some attention on him? He had a hard time getting around, especially on one leg. She was just helping the brother out. You're not the first one to voice that perspective of the dynamics of their relationship though.

[RustyHicks]

I think in the beginning they did have a thing for each other,
I think they dated, had a few bangs here and there and then
the zombie crises starts. Now what do you do. I think Stephen did
care for Franny and felt obligated to take care of her, especially
after finding out she's carrying his child, but I don't think either of
them imagined spending the rest of their lives together.
Just the looks they give and no caressing or tenderness in the film.
I think the whole thing was lust, lust for each other and then
when they got thrown together, and stuck together in the mall,
they began to realize that "hey, this wasn't worth it at all"

[MissJacksonCA]

Yeah there wasn't a lot of love lost between 'em but its funny that he seemed to feel obligated to marry her cos she was having his child and yet when they first got to the mall he felt free to take the rifle from her to go join Peter and Rog... not a lot of care for his lovieee then now was there...

[darth los]

Yeah there wasn't a lot of love lost between 'em but its funny that he seemed to feel obligated to marry her cos she was having his child and yet when they first got to the mall he felt free to take the rifle from her to go join Peter and Rog... not a lot of care for his lovieee then now was there...

Well, you give what you get. You reap what you sow. Whatever saying you prefer applies.


I think in the beginning they did have a thing for each other,
I think they dated, had a few bangs here and there and then
the zombie crises starts. Now what do you do. I think Stephen did
care for Franny and felt obligated to take care of her, especially
after finding out she's carrying his child, but I don't think either of
them imagined spending the rest of their lives together.
Just the looks they give and no caressing or tenderness in the film.
I think the whole thing was lust, lust for each other and then
when they got thrown together, and stuck together in the mall,
they began to realize that "hey, this wasn't worth it at all"

Well, this was in the era of casual sex so there might be something to that theory rusty. But after all the indignities suffered by flyboy in the film the engagement snub had to top it off. That was like the ultimate slap in the face. Stephen was for all intents and purposes the last man on earth and she still wouldn't mrry him. That's foul yo. Or it could be that she was pining for some of that mandingo meat that ol' opete was packin'. In any case i would love to see the paternity results from that dna test.

[RustyHicks]

Just seems like Stephen realized after what he got himself into.
It's why he reacts so disappointed and embarrassed when Fran
starts to want to take control of herself and not relay on Stephen.
She saw how he treated her, leaving her with no gun and going to
play with the boys. I think it was a turning point for Fran. She realized
the Stephen may not care for her as much as she thought. Abandoning
her the way he did. Especially when she got more care from Peter,
who gave her the gun in the first place. She figured the hell with this,
I'm taking care of myself, because I can't relay on Stephen. This is
why she wanted to learn how to fly and fight. Or fight and fly.
Which ever way you wanna look at it

[darth los]

Just seems like Stephen realized after what he got himself into.
It's why he reacts so disappointed and embarrassed when Fran
starts to want to take control of herself and not relay on Stephen.
She saw how he treated her, leaving her with no gun and going to
play with the boys. I think it was a turning point for Fran. She realized
the Stephen may not care for her as much as she thought. Abandoning
her the way he did. Especially when she got more care from Peter,
who gave her the gun in the first place. She figured the hell with this,
I'm taking care of myself, because I can't relay on Stephen. This is
why she wanted to learn how to fly and fight. Or fight and fly.
Which ever way you wanna look at it

I actually think that the turning point was the scene before that with the krishna zombie. To me it was more callous to leave her alone up there with no gun not knowing what dangers there were to be faced in the mall. If anything i think that she would be more pissed about that. In any case i believe that there came a point in the film that she started to assert her own independance and distance herself from stephen. I don't even think stephen cared that much though. I mean he was still hitting it , what more could he ask for?

[RustyHicks]

Course you could look at it as Stephen disowning Fran in one way,
when they're at the airport and he gets attacked, she just stands there
instead of grabbing up that hammer and giving it to Stephen or bonking
that zombie on the head.
Fran could care less about Stephen too, look at when Roger got bit
in the leg, she got more upset and cried about that
then she did when Stephen walked into the apartment as a zombie.
I think they just stuck together cause they figured they
were stuck together.

[darth los]

I think they just stuck together cause they figured they
were stuck together.

Damn dude. You just described about 95% of all marriages. :lol: 2 points !! :D

[MissJacksonCA]

Damn dude. You just described about 95% of all marriages. :lol: 2 points !! :D

That was so wrong and so right at the same time :rockbrow:

[RustyHicks]

Damn dude. You just described about 95% of all marriages. :lol: 2 points !! :D

I'd like to buy a vowel with those two points :D

Fran and Stephen sitting in a tree,
hating each other this we all see

[MissJacksonCA]

Touche :elol: