SONY files patent to end second-hand games...

[LouCipherr]

...and I don't think they realize the world of hurt they're in for.

Source: http://www.nextgenupdate.com/news/sce-files-patent-to-stop-second-hand-games#AmSJkWmPL2KiLTBE.99 (http://www.nextgenupdate.com/news/sce-files-patent-to-stop-second-hand-games#AmSJkWmPL2KiLTBE.99)

Text from link:

Sony Computer Entertainment has filed a patent which if granted, will look to shut down the second-hand game market. The patent was filed on the 9th of December 2012 and we expect up to two years waiting before it is given approval or denied.

The language used in the patent may be difficult to understand, but basically an electronic tag will be added to your game on the production line which is able to detect whether or not the game has been played on another console or tied to a user ID. This will kill off second-hand game sales as the game will now only be able to play on one console. So what happens if you have two consoles? Well Sony does not make this clear, but we guess it will involve a long call to the support centres in order to get them to let you play the game on your other machine.

Consider, for example, a case where used is a game package 200 distributed in the second-hand market. Then the ID of reproduction device for the game disk 210 differs from the legitimate use device ID stored in the use permission tag 220, so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode that is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market.

Also, for example, a content key may be supplied to the reproduction device 130 and the encrypted game AP may be decrypted using the content key only if the reproduction device ID matches a legitimate use device ID. Hence, use of game APs bought and sold in the second-hand market can be eliminated.

Sony are trying to implement this because consumers are constantly buying second-hand games, which generates no profit for the developers and only the retailer. In their view, this is unfair and they feel like they are being robbed, and this is completely understandable, but what about the people who can't afford to pay €55 for a game and have to wait for months until the price of a second-hand copy is low in order to buy the game? This patent surely won't go down well with some people.




I have my opinions on this, but I'm curious to hear everyone else's first. Your thoughts?

[Danny]

As a customer whos monetary spending is tight as a crabs arse in a sandstorm i feel a little indignant, however from a business side i totally get it, if the devs dont get the money for their work they wont stay afloat. Sure its monetarily backed by the devs - in this case sony- but they are not in a good way at all. So i guess it feels greedy. But they are a dev. They arent your friend, they produce entertainment for you the audience to consume. if they dont make money they dont make games.
And personally borderlands 2 was the only hard copy none digital cheap price game i bought in the last 5 years. I just dont buy used games since stores will jack the prices up based on climate - like all preowned gtas going up for about £15 every time a new ones out. I just wait for a steam sale and grab something then. Or psn sale.

Now if xbox could get their games on demand pricing right and not charge £49.99, about 82 dollars, for 4 year old games then i wouldnt have any problems. well, cept for nintendo, but they are honestly the biggest price gougers of that lot.

-also, im surprised sony did this and not EA, whos pretty much in a nose dive business wise now.

[LouCipherr]

I don't even understand this from a business perspective. You don't want to drive your customers away with stuff like this (and it will - remember a little game called "Spore"? It was poised to be the biggest selling PC game in years and FLOPPED because of the shitty copy protection that the distributor put on it), what you want to do is encourage them to buy your product.

This is not the way to do that.

I have said time and time again (and the market bears this out) that consumers want availability at a reasonable price (I made a lengthy post about this very idea with example here: http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20192-British-ISPs-Ordered-to-Block-The-Pirate-Bay&p=283623&viewfull=1#post283623 (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20192-British-ISPs-Ordered-to-Block-The-Pirate-Bay&p=283623&viewfull=1#post283623) In fact, it was Sony I was dealing with in that post too! Imagine that. :lol:). $60-70 USD is NOT reasonable in my mind. I understand how much these companies spend in development, but if you charged only 60-70% of what they're charging for games now, they'd see a massive spike in sales.

This is an extremely bad move for Sony. And I have to agree, Danny - I'm shocked it wasn't EA who pulled this out of their hat first. Go figure.

[Danny]

Its a desperate move. This is an attempt by a 90's big money company in its death throes because it doesnt understand the current climate and why it is failing.

Dont get me wrong i love my ps3, for me its the best console of the 3 out right now. Yet that don't mean the company that makes it isnt going down the crapper.

[shootemindehead]

<opinion>wankers</opinion>

[Rancid Carcass]

So what happens if you have two consoles? Well Sony does not make this clear, but we guess it will involve a long call to the support centres in order to get them to let you play the game on your other machine.?

Also, what if your console dies? Will you have to buy both a new console and a new copy of the game, or will this lengthy (probably premium rate), phone call end with the option to purchase an unlock code? It's starting sound a little grubby.

[Neil]

Seems bonkers!

But then again... This is the way a number of things are going. I mean, every game I've bought off of Steam, I cannot sell second hand...

[Tricky]

Part of the joy when I was at school (Megadrive/SNES/PS1 days) was being able to swap games with your mates for a week or two seen as at that age none of us had much money and usually only got a couple of games a year for Christmas or birthdays. I guess this will kill that off and parents will be under pressure to throw more money out so little Johnny can still play the latest titles rather than borrowing them from his mates.

[LouCipherr]

<opinion>wankers</opinion>

Agreed. :thumbsup:



Seems bonkers!

But then again... This is the way a number of things are going. I mean, every game I've bought off of Steam, I cannot sell second hand...

This is true, but you knew that going in. When you buy a steam game, you know you cannot "share" or sell it used. When I buy a physical disc, I have an understanding (at the moment) that I can pull it out of my xbox, bring it down the street to my friends house and play with him on his xbox. Apparently that's going to be changing. That being said, you're right, it seems this is the direction we're heading. Steam is a prime example of that.



Its a desperate move. This is an attempt by a [90's] big money company in its death throes because it doesn't understand the current climate and why it is failing.

Sounds an awful lot like the music business, doesn't it? :lol:

[AcesandEights]

This will never go through, but damn do I wish it would. I had been thinking about getting involved with online porn to boost my income, but ruling an underground illegal second-hand videogame ring...now that has cachè!

"Now you think about that while I beat the rap."

[EvilNed]

As for game prices going down, for games I don't want straight away I just wait until there's a sale on steam. You can get games for ludicrous prices at times.

[Mr. Clean]

I don't usually buy used but have on occasion when it comes to really old games and I can get 2 or 3 for under 20 dollars. (really old = 3+ years)

I normally purchase a new copy of an old game off Amazon for 20ish dollars or buy all my new games(not many these days) at Gamestop for the powerup points that I never use just because it's somewhat of an award for burning 3 Andrew Jacksons. I keep finding it harder and harder though to spend money on video games. My prioities are changing so it seems....:shifty:

[MinionZombie]

I haven't bought a used game in years, however I have sold-on a bunch of my old games over the last several months. I keep my games in tip-top "Like New" condition. Indeed, you could re-seal them in plastic and sell them as "brand new" if you wanted, they're that tidy (I don't even use the DLC codes as I don't have XBL) ... it's been good to sell them on as I wasn't playing them anymore, and then someone can get some use out of them, and I get a bit of money to spend on other items I want - another game, or a book, or a CD, or a DVD, or a Blu-Ray, or whatever.

Generally I buy games brand new, but at sale prices. I got Far Cry 3 last month for half price on an unanounced sale price online, for instance. Plus there's so many games out there that I want to play, I don't have the time to play all of them, let alone get to many of the ones I do end up actually playing at a point in time that they're at a high price - by the time I get around to them, they're much cheaper, and depending on their popularity they might be really cheap ... then other popular games, that I just took forever to get around to, I can snap up for a tenner or perhaps even less.

So even if this moronic move passed, it can't stop people like me who don't have the budget to buy a load of games brand new (it's been more than a year since I bought a game brand new day one), and who are willing to wait for sales to get them on the cheap. I like to go for a "£1 per hour" spend-to-play ratio at least, and if I can get to 50p-per-hour then even better. :D

[LouCipherr]

So even if this moronic move passed, it can't stop people like me who don't have the budget to buy a load of games brand new (it's been more than a year since I bought a game brand new day one), and who are willing to wait for sales to get them on the cheap. I like to go for a "£1 per hour" spend-to-play ratio at least, and if I can get to 50p-per-hour then even better. :D

Yup, and if this stupid patent is granted, guess what? Piracy will also increase at a rate these bozos have never seen before, thereby dropping sales even further into the toilet. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is a "push/pull" dynamic at work here and if they pull too hard, people will push back even harder.

These companies are so clueless it makes you wonder how any of them stay in business.

[capncnut]

The patent is not restricted to games either. Big whispers that they will implement the disc-tag tech into Blu-Ray players as well...

[MinionZombie]

The patent is not restricted to games either. Big whispers that they will implement the disc-tag tech into Blu-Ray players as well...

An even bigger F-YOU to customers. I thought Blu-Ray was supposed to do away with region coding, and yet it was still there, but it's there really inconsistently. I've got Blue Velvet on imported BR because the UK release didn't have the newly discovered 50 minutes of deleted scenes on it. Now, I checked blu-ray.com and they said that it was region free - which it is - and yet the back cover still has the "A" logo on the back, despite being region free.

On the other hand you get something like the anniversary release of Evil Dead 1 or 2 on BR, and they're region locked. Why should I have to go to the hassle of getting an unlocked player, or getting updates for other territories etc ... if I'm buying the ruddy disc, that should be good enough, I'm doing what they want, for me to not pirate their content, and yet they're just pissing me off anyway by with-holding releases that I really want to spend my cash on in my own territory ... knob'eds.

[LouCipherr]

An even bigger F-YOU to customers. I thought Blu-Ray was supposed to do away with region coding, and yet it was still there, but it's there really inconsistently.

That's one of the MANY reasons HD-DVD should've won. No region coding.


F Sony. I hate that company more than I hate... Death Proof. :lol: :lol: :p

[capncnut]

There is the possibility that Sony will not implement this during the next generation and are merely covering their asses for when such a system is (inevitably) introduced. I guess the worrying thing is that they haven't responded to the backlash yet.