XBox One [console]

[Danny]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/
ALWAYS ONLINE - You must always be connected to the internet to verify your game licenses or you cannot play them at all
NO SECOND HAND GAMES - Each game will have a unique identifier that forever locks it to your xbox live account. you can never trade it in and never buy a preowned game for a price below new.
A NEW -MANDATORY- KINECT - You must always have a facial recognising camera so you cannot even have friends play on your console.

I really, really hope these "industry leaks" coming out for the new xbox are wrong, because this is beyond big brother levels of obscenity. If this IS legitimate? Yeah, i think we all know the loser of the next console gen.

Us.

[MinionZombie]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/
ALWAYS ONLINE - You must always be connected to the internet to verify your game licenses or you cannot play them at all
NO SECOND HAND GAMES - Each game will have a unique identifier that forever locks it to your xbox live account. you can never trade it in and never buy a preowned game for a price below new.
A NEW -MANDATORY- KINECT - You must always have a facial recognising camera so you cannot even have friends play on your console.

I really, really hope these "industry leaks" coming out for the new xbox are wrong, because this is beyond big brother levels of obscenity. If this IS legitimate? Yeah, i think we all know the loser of the next console gen.

Us.

I dearly hope that's all nonsense and totally false, because as you say, IF it IS true, then good lord, are they deliberately trying to crash themselves into a wall?

Always Online is simply moronic - there are millions of people like me whose broadband connections are piss weak compared to national and global averages (mine is rated "F" for crying out loud), and there's millions more who don't even get broadband - people who are still operating under dial up speeds! :eek: Plus the wireless network is pants - the limit in my house is measured in centimetres basically. Besides, the "always on" thing is just stupid - Ubisoft discovered that with Assassin's Creed II on the PC - if your connection goes down, you get booted from your game, and what about saving your progress? If your save is "in the cloud" you'd lose progress too.

Kinect is horseshit too - I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to be anywhere near a Kinect, let alone play with one. It's a stupid idea invented by stupid people who are trying to force "fun and casual" kiddy experiences to a console that doesn't really obtain that sort of a market. Do what you do well, don't water down what you do well with rubbish that you don't do well, and that other people did well for a brief spell with a market that mostly got bored of the tech very quickly (the sorts of casual gamers/normies who ran off and got a Wii, played it for a few weeks, and then left it to collect dust).

Second Hand Games - if true, there goes an entire retail sector, and you know what, there goes sales of brand new games, and certainly the number of sales of brand new games at TOP prices.

If this stuff is true, it's totally taking the mick ... but I do hope that it's rubbish put out there by PS3/4 fanboys seeking to grief the webtubes in the lead-up to the Sony announcement on Feb 20th or whenever it is.

[Neil]

(1) Sounds believable, to cut down on Piracy?
(2) Sounds believable, but unlikely... IMHO.
(3) Sound rediculous!

[AcesandEights]

A NEW -MANDATORY- KINECT - You must always have a facial recognising camera so you cannot even have friends play on your console.


I'm all over this one. Maybe...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/SimonSays_zpse2000715.jpg

[shootemindehead]

Playstation will clean up.

Who's running these f*ckin departments?

[ProfessorChaos]

if these rumors are true, i may just stick to the xbox 360 and sit this generation out. i've got at least a handful of games i've not beat on it yet, and state of decay and gta5 will both be out this year, so there's loads of value left in my current console.

no thanks at all for the "always-online, no secondhand games, and facial recognition" features of a new console. each feature alone would be enough reason for me to pass, but all three makes for a trifecta of bullshit i don't want to deal with to at all just to play a game.

[Cykotic]

I think i'll stick to the 360 or jump to sony

[Danny]

HA!

So after being the ones to introduce the idea in the first place, sony are now saying "we are completely against blocking the customer from preowned games, they still need to buy our console to play them, and to be preowned we must have already gotten the sale from the unit so its fine".

I think sony learnt from ms this gen about getting information out and damage controlling fast.

Whatever happens this gens "cunsul wurz" is going to be very interesting indeed by the looks of it.

[MinionZombie]

That statement from Sony surprisingly sums it up perfectly.

Also, just think about how wasteful it is to produce one-play-only games. Someone buys it, but then can't sell it on, and then they're just stuck with stuff filling up their shelves, so it just has to be binned. Yeah, you could recycle the plastic case and paper inserts (not everywhere though), but the disc itself can't be recycled as far as I'm aware, and that does seem silly anyway to chuck out a perfectly decent game.

Yeah - a trifecta of bullshit is a great way to consider this rumoured news. I do hope it is just a rumour and not fact.

And didn't Sony say that MS could "go first" in announcing their console? :confused:

These "close sources" could just be bullshitters, or they could be floating out ideas that could be yanked at the last minute if they prove too unpopular, and I think it's pretty obvious that these ideas (true or not) are horseshit ideas.

I'm definitely in no rush to jump to the next gen - particularly with GTAV coming out in September, and Saints Row 4 rumoured to be out this year (they must have been working on that quite secretly, rumours suggest an August release for it, but I doubt it'll come-to-pass that early ... you never know though) - and a bunch of other games I could snap up on-the-cheap that I never got around to playing.

I wouldn't be buying a new console straight away anyway - let the tech embed itself, see if there's any ridiculous hardware issues, let some games get onto the market, see if some sales come out, let prices drop a bit etc. It was 18 months before I hopped on the 360 bandgwagon.

[shootemindehead]

The resale of games is actually important to the industry too. When one considers the rising cost of premium titles and the lowering of people's incomes, the ability of the consumer to sell a game on becomes a great way to recoup some of the money they spent on the full price game, thus there is an incentive for the buyer to fork out the, frankly, ridiculous price for top shelf titles.

Without the ability to sell on a game that the user has beaten or has decided that it's not for them, a lot of people will opt not to buy newly released, full priced titles, or at least will confine there purchases to 5 star only games, which will have a serious effect on the revenue for both the software houses and the console manufacturers.

It's a no brainer.


Also, LoL at Sony's U-Turn.

[MinionZombie]

And continuing on from Shoot's post, people will be less willing to try out first-entry games - the first in a proposed franchise - they'd be less willing to try out something new by a fresh dev team, perhaps. Sales might not be anywhere near as good as hoped and a sequel might not then happen - the first title might be a bit iffy in some regards, but worth playing on sale or second hand, but the sequel might be a fantastic follow-up. The Saints Row games got exponentially better with each sequel.

[Mr. Clean]

I think i'll stick to the 360 or jump to sony

What I was thinking...

[Andy]

I Call bullshit.. firstly all 3 of those statements are corporate suicide. ANY company knows this.

Secondly, the article goes onto mention blu-ray technology being used which again is total bull as everyone knows microsoft and toshiba admitted defeat against blu-ray years ago and microsoft tried to release a blu-ray drive for the 360, which sony refused to license.

Why would they change their mind now?

[Danny]

Why would they change their mind now?

They aint remotely in the same finanical position. So in a word:

ON-7v4qnHP8

[LouCipherr]

Hell, if even one of those items are true, it's going to be nothing more than MS committing console suicide.

If these things (any one of them) turn out to be true, I'll sit out this next gen of consoles. I'll stick with my PC gaming.

I would like to say I'd jump to the Playstation, but I think everyone here knows my aversion to Sony by now.

[MinionZombie]

The talk of Blu-Ray being on the next Xbox is something I've heard from numerous sources for months now - there's no way they could feasibly continue with DVD as their physical medium for games (L.A. Noire was 3 DVDs on the 360, while it was 1 Blu-Ray on the PS3). So from what I've read over the last few months, IIRC, Blu-Ray is the confirmed physical media for the new Xbox.

The other items, yes, that sort of stuff is just suicide for the box - if Sony can figure out blocking used games is a moronic move after they'd been pushing hard and firm for it only recently, then I do have to doubt if these rumours are true. It's either a case of someone deliberately putting bullshit out there - but to what end? To help Sony, or is it some bizarre inverse damage control where they screw themselves in the public eye, then reveal that "actually it's all good" or "actually it's just one of those things".

[Tricky]

More rumours relating to the new consoles and GTA V

http://www.product-reviews.net/2013/02/14/gta-v-transition-into-xbox-720-ps4-fears/

Why is the industry so determined to piss its customers off these days? I'm sure there were probably a lot of people hoping they could sell their 360/PS3 to make way for the new console but keep their old games.

[MinionZombie]

Good find, Tricky - it certainly throws up some interesting transitionary questions - I just hope they don't make a dimwit move and make GTA V next-gen-only ... but that would be really moronic considering the existing penetration of 360 and PS3 consoles in households. Your market is ready and waiting - don't screw them over.

This onslaught of rumours is ridiculous, but if they're all or mostly true, only a couple of them are good - and none of the good ones are the three listed in the original post in this thread, that's for damn sure!

[shootemindehead]

I'm kind of hoping that these rumors are true and it sees the end of the domination of Sony and Microsoft in the console market, and in fact sees the end of the domination of the console in the gaming market.

Wishful thinking though.

[Neil]

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-720-Has-Always-DRM-Blocks-Used-Games-Says-Eidos-President-53032.html


claiming that the Xbox 720 will block used games and will sport always-on DRM. The latest postulator is Eidos president Ian Livingstone, who claims that Microsoft's next generation home console will be about as anti-consumer as anti-consumer gets.

[Danny]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/new-always-on-always-connected-durango-leak-is-real/

Welp, i know im going ps4 then.

[MinionZombie]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/new-always-on-always-connected-durango-leak-is-real/

Welp, i know im going ps4 then.

What a load of ruddy bullshit - what a moronic idea - I mean really, there are vast areas of the country that don't have strong broadband - and many areas that don't have broadband at all, plus nobody likes always on connection stuff. Just look at what's going on right now with Sim City.

Even if you've got broadband, it might not be strong enough, or you know what - you might have your web and your console in different rooms on different floors of your house (such is the case with me) as well as having awful wireless coverage in your area (again, such is the case with me).

What a fucking stupid idea.

[Danny]

The whole things stupid. its a console that can never be turned off, its always watching with its bloody built in kinect and it must mandatory install every game but STILL require the game in the bloody system to play.

Explain to me how this is a good way to prevent piracy when nobodies going to buy it :rolleyes:

[shootemindehead]

Sony's laughing all the way to the bank.

Microshit has just handed them the victory in the console war for the forseeable future.

Utterly incredible.

[AcesandEights]

I'll withhold any righteous indignation till this is all more verifiable and detailed.

[shootemindehead]

But...it's on the interweb Aces!!!!!!!

[AcesandEights]

But...it's on the interweb Aces!!!!!!!

Well, Bonjour!

bufTna0WArc

[MinionZombie]

I'll withhold any righteous indignation till this is all more verifiable and detailed.

Aye ... I'm holding out a sliver of hope ... these rumours and such seem so mind-numbingly obvious as bad decisions.


But...it's on the interweb Aces!!!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol:

[LouCipherr]

these rumours and such seem so mind-numbingly obvious as bad decisions.

Which is why it feels like it might be the truth. This is Microsoft we're talking about, MZ. Nothing surprises me with these guys... :rolleyes:

[Danny]

Which is why it feels like it might be the truth. This is Microsoft we're talking about, MZ. Nothing surprises me with these guys... :rolleyes:

Its the spin of it that bugs me "so its always ready for your gaming!" which i read as "KEEP QUIET AND STUPID, BIG BROTHER IS IN CONTROL" :lol:

[shootemindehead]

well, bonjour!

totally true

:D

[MinionZombie]

'Always ready for your gaming' ... except when your internet is down, or you don't have wireless, or their servers are down, or yet another bloody update has to be installed as you champ at the bit to play the brand new release, highly anticipated title that you've been dying to play for months... :rolleyes:

Always On Connection has been proved time and again to be utter nonsense that nobody likes. I'm still crossing my fingers for a last minute reveal that all these rumours are false ... waiting for the officially announced official word ... officially.

Not filled with a lot of hope, mind.

[MinionZombie]

Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? "Deal with it," says Microsoft Studio's creative director.

http://www.cnet.com.au/xboxs-adam-orth-doesnt-get-always-on-concerns-339343874.htm

What a twat. :rolleyes:

1) There are people who don't actually have the Internet. At all.

2) There are people who have the Internet (Dial Up), but can't get Broadband.

3) There are people who can get Broadband, but their speed is slow (e.g. my connection is rated "F" nationally, and "D" globally, and as an example, that huge day one patch for Assassin's Creed III would take me hours to download).

4) There are people whose console is physically nowhere near their Router.

5) There are people whose Wireless connectivity is non-existant, or only within a couple of feet of their Router (so again, a location problem).

6) Why the feck should you be forced to be online just to play a videogame? Why should Single Player require the Internet?

7) Always On connections don't provide any actual improvement to the player experience - as Diablo III and Sim City showed, it's the total opposite.

8) What about people who are on limited data transfer plans?

9) What if your Internet goes down (either a break in the connection, or an actual outage)? You can't play your game!

10) It penalises people who have actually paid money to buy legitimate copies of the game. Legitimate purchasers should be rewarded with an easy and enjoyable consumer experience that doesn't deny you what you've paid for at random, let alone force you to jump through numerous hoops just to play your ruddy game.

Any other reasons folks can think of as to why "Always On" connections are moronic?

I'm hoping the critical backlash from the userbase will inspire a last minute about-turn from MS regarding "Always On". If it was to remain, I wouldn't actually be able to get the 'Next Box' - I could buy one, but I wouldn't be able to use it! An expensive way to go about acquiring a paper weight!

[LouCipherr]

And out where my house is in West Virignia, there is no internet connection to speak of. I guess it's "well, f*ck those guys, they can deal with it"

Typical.

Based on everything I've read so far about the new PS and the Xbox, I'll be moving to the next gen PS when it comes out. Microsoft can bite my big fat white ass.

[AcesandEights]

Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? "Deal with it," says Microsoft Studio's creative director.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/7008150_700b_zps1363afba.jpg

[Danny]

Man you know this guys gonna get fired in a sacrifice to the damage control gods.

[shootemindehead]

...I'm hoping the critical backlash from the userbase will inspire a last minute about-turn from MS regarding "Always On". If it was to remain, I wouldn't actually be able to get the 'Next Box' - I could buy one, but I wouldn't be able to use it! An expensive way to go about acquiring a paper weight!

I hope it doesn't and Sony sweep the board. Not that those cu*ts are any better, mind, but all of these companies need to be taken down a peg, or three.

Gobsh*tes like Orth and Microsoft will just have to "deal with it", when people buy Playstations, instead of Xboxes.

[Danny]

Apparently the official xbox magazines are reporting this as fact now, and labeling it "the next step in augmented reality" and "without the internet and your xbox live why even buy an xbox?"

of course this assumes anyone but a brain dead brand loyalty retard WOULD by the new xbox in this case.

Personally its safe to say im not touching it.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, it's nothing but shitty news circling the Next Box right now ... and all these measures just seem like the biggest examples of idiocy too. Like a business run by actual morons with a "deal with it" attitude.

But if MS insist on squeezing me out of their future customer base with unwanted nonsense like Always On connection, then too bad for them, they'll be losing my business. As I've said earlier, if they insist on these sort of measures, even if I did buy a Next Box, I wouldn't be able to actually use it! That's just madness - there'll be plenty of people such as myself, and all they're doing is waving money in the direction of Sony (or at least, away from themselves), which makes no business sense at all. :rolleyes::confused::rolleyes:

[shootemindehead]

It's an incredibly bad business decision. It's actually mind-boggling.

I'd love to know what Bill's take on it is. I hear he's very distant from Xbox development.

[Rottedfreak]

In twenty years time you might break out the old Xbox 720 and find it a brick.
That said, in five you might break out the old Xbox 360 and find a brick.

[Danny]

Jesus and now microsofts saying there will be no backwards compatibility with 360 games so "it will be easier to link pc and durango games together"
-doesnt play any 360 games you own
-bricks after 3 minutes without internet even for single player games and youtube
-requires a price hiked xbox live
-still not a single new ip for it even rumoured.

I don't think i am the customer for videogames anymore if this is acceptable now.

[AcesandEights]

I don't think i am the customer for videogames anymore if this is acceptable now.

Come over to tabletop RPGs, Danny. No one can put a surcharge on your imagination, and hygiene is optional :) Plus, you can LARP and still use some of your hardware and peripherals:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/nintendo-nerd-lord_zps01e44c7d.jpg
^Oldie but a goody :)

[Danny]

welp
>mandatory kinect confirmed cannot work without one
>absolutely NO 360 backwards compatibility, not even plans to make them games on demand!
>cd key codes to prevent preowned sales

They pushed the whole thing as "all your living room devices in one" with few videogames, and even fewer exclusives. What was promising screamed tech demos, and we all remember the video of the kid holding his skateboard up to his tv and going "kinect: scan!" and that never came to be.

Though the most interesting thing rom the whole dull affair was sonys stocks shot up as microsofts declined in almost equal measure.

We gotta wait and see on the ps4, but i think nintendos breathing a bit of a sigh of relief since they had already lost ea so its not like the madden stuff is a damage to them anyway.

overall? They just said theres a shit ton of cool games coming to 360 to be announced at e3. SO WHY SHOULD WE CARE ABOUT THIS INSTEAD?

[slickwilly13]

We have to pay a preowned fee to played used, rented, or borrowed games? No thanks, I will go elsewhere. Xbox Done.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah, no transferable XBL games, either.

http://m.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-not-backwards-compatible-with-360-discs-xbla-purchases/?post=1&icid=joystiq_home_latest_art

[Neil]

They pushed the whole thing as "all your living room devices in one" with few videogames
So is it an all out media player too? That's what WiiU should have been with its special tablet controller!

[Danny]

So is it an all out media player too? That's what WiiU should have been with its special tablet controller!

So far it seems to be a tv remote with alt tabbing and windows movie maker and occasionally a casual videogame or two.

-also, its "seamless switching to live tv"? US only and requiring an additional device to be bought and connected.

What a goddamn blunder.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh yeah, no transferable XBL games, either.

http://m.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-not-backwards-compatible-with-360-discs-xbla-purchases/?post=1&icid=joystiq_home_latest_art

Is this some uwe boll style "if it bombs i make mad bank on tax loopoles" deal? because this is sounding like the worst console this century!

[krakenslayer]

They pushed the whole thing as "all your living room devices in one"


Which is funny, because I already own one of those. It's called a PC. :p

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, i'm about 99% sure that i'm sticking with the current gen for the foreseeable future, and if i do move on, it sure as hell won't be to the xbox one.

[Danny]

welp, not only do you need to pay a second fee to play a preowned game but - http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109 - you do need to keep connecting it to online at least once every 24 hours.

I can safetly say the idiots who buy this console are the cancer killing videogames.

worst part is xbros are already venomously defending thier princess from "the hating trolls who cant see this is the future":rolleyes:

[Neil]

What does this unit actually bring to the market that improves things? OK, a more powerful CPU, GPU, and new Kinect, but what else?

[MinionZombie]

So on one hand you've got "Xbros" and on the other you've got Danny ... you've been on a right old mission in the last 18 hours. :lol:

Stock Markets don't like uncertainty - and this total uncertainty over requiring a connection (and other issues) is just idiotic - how are they not able to answer a simple ruddy question? There are millions of Xboxers who play in places that can't get a connection, or are in a situation where that's not possible in that specific location (such as myself). That article suggests once every 24 hours, but then an update says it's "one possible scenario" - for gawd's sake MS, have a definitive answer already!

I'm not doomsaying about this console, but I'm not chest-bumping over it either - what really strikes me is the utter inability to answer simple bloody questions, such as the above about whether you're connected or not for a simple every day single player experience. There's a lot of fluff surrounding the core questions that remain to be definitively answered - yeah, SOME people will benefit from some or all of these fancy farty little techy features, but they're beyond the scope of the ultimate purpose of the Xbox - to play games - it's all distraction from the basic functions and questions that everyone's got. I'm not coming down on some of those features as I'm sure some of these functions will become second-nature in the future, but I'm not amped about watching Star Trek while receiving a Skype call ... and what a moronic way to consume media anyway - you're never paying attention to anything.

When I play a game - I play a game. When I watch a movie - I watch a movie. When I go online - I go online, and from a PC (with those handy tools known as a keyboard and a mouse).

So there's some good stuff in there and a few snippets of things to look forward to (such as Remedy's "Quantum Break"), but it seems the real meat is still to come (E3 etc).

Not a total disaster of a launch by any means, and not really a disaster in general, but it left numerous things to be desired - there was a sense of 'corporate disconnect'.

[EvilNed]

I'm really surprised about it not being backwards compatible. That's what kills it for me. I've wanted an XBox360 for some of the games that I've missed, like Fable 2 and 3. Thought about getting this one and get ahold of some new titles as well. But now? Fuck it. Fuck this.

[MinionZombie]

I'm really surprised about it not being backwards compatible. That's what kills it for me. I've wanted an XBox360 for some of the games that I've missed, like Fable 2 and 3. Thought about getting this one and get ahold of some new titles as well. But now? Fuck it. Fuck this.

They probably boil it down to numbers - those with Xbox 360s won't toss them out, so if they want to play an old game (that they either already own, or have bought new or used in a cheap sale), they've already got their 360 to play it on - meanwhile those buying-in to the Xbox for the first time will be more likely to be more interested in looking forward than back (albeit, there will be people who would want to play some current/previous gen games) - there probably wouldn't be enough people who would do that (and for a long enough time - inevitably they'd let the older games pass by into the ether - most, including me, can't keep up with all the new games, let alone the old ones we've already played, or would have wanted to play at some point).

It's strange that the more advanced the tech gets, the less compatible it is with older stuff - there'll be reasons why, but it does seem strange that you can't just have some sort of emulating technology (I'm being a total layman here) that could handle older games ... because one benefit would be you could buy into a new generation, but also have a vast library of established titles, including some big name releases on the current gen such as GTA V.

It's certainly not a deal breaker for me - the biggest issue for me is this 'connectivity' stuff for oft-stated reasons why it's decidedly problematic for me. If in the end I will be able to do what I do now - as I do it now - then I'd buy-in to the Xbox One in the future (I got into the 360 after 18 months) ... but it seems ridiculous that I don't have an answer from MS to my simple question. :rolleyes::confused::rockbrow:

[LouCipherr]

Mark my words right now - the Xbox 360 will be the Windows XP of the gaming consoles. 12 years later, people will be refusing to upgrade as their 360 will be sufficient enough and they don't want nor need these new 'upgrades' (if you ask me, they're downgrades).

This is supposed to be a GAME console. If I wanted to watch movies or whatever, I'll do it on my BluRay, DVD player, or stream it through Netflix. I don't need all this extra garbage clogging up my gaming console.

Bottom line is this: Microsoft just removed themselves from the gaming console competition unless Sony makes the same mistakes. I doubt they will, but you never know. If they don't, I will be investing in the next gen Playstation. And this is coming from someone who flat-out abhors Sony. Either that or I'll stick with my PC games, but there is no way in hell I'll invest in this atrocity.

F*k Microsoft and their Xbox One. I hope they enjoyed the ride while it was going on, because this will send their business straight into the shitter.

I can't imagine anyone being excited about this.

[AcesandEights]

Yeah, it's funny how a lot of the horrible rumors about the new Xbox were somewhat at least grounded in fact...

Internet Required

Always-on...or close enough to annoy people

No game-sharing

Pay for pre-owned play

Kinnect required

Live TV not available at launch...>.>

No backwards compatibility, which isn't that bad till you realize it includes Live Arcade purchases, as well.

All I have to say is...I'm not a very discriminating consumer with regards to a lot of these console related considerations, but even I will wait and see and comparison shop against Sony, and even then may just remove myself from consoles entirely for this generation.

[Rancid Carcass]

I hope they enjoyed the ride while it was going on, because this will send their business straight into the shitter. I can't imagine anyone being excited about this.

Sony.

:lol:

[Neil]

And the PS4 isn't restricting sharing games and buying/using second-hand games?

[MinionZombie]

And the PS4 isn't restricting sharing games and buying/using second-hand games?

Not sure - but the PS4 will also not be doing backwards compatibility.

"More questions than answers", "complicated", "rules and possibilities", "uncertainty and confusion" and "extraneous fluff" would be my general reaction. There's stuff I like, there's stuff I dislike, and there's stuff which I have either zero interest in, or has zero impact upon me personally. I would have liked the reveal to be more 'gamer-centric' than 'business-centric'.

Proclamations of doom and disaster ... I don't buy that (same goes for "I'm leaving the next gen" ... we'll see about that in due course :sneaky:) - that's going too far in my view. We'll all have to wait and see ... for one thing, we know next-to-bugger-all about the PS4, warts and all.

Gone are the days of lending your mate a game to try out though - if you take a game to a mate's house to play on their console, YOU have to sign into YOUR account on THEIR machine in order to make it work. All games must be installed on the 500gb hard-drive, so your mate will have it on their console, but if they want to play it once you've pissed off home for dinner, they'll have to PAY FULL RETAIL (or pinch your login info :p) ... so the old days of trading games with mates is long gone then.

A few years ago a mate of mine bought a 360 and I took some of my games over to show him what sort of things he might like to buy - and you know what - he bought his own copy of more than one of the games I showed him afterwards.

[LouCipherr]

I can't imagine anyone being excited about this.


Sony.

:lol:


ZING! +1, Rancid... +1 indeed!


Proclamations of doom and disaster ... I don't buy that (same goes for "I'm leaving the next gen" ... we'll see about that in due course :sneaky:) - that's going too far in my view. We'll all have to wait and see ... for one thing, we know next-to-bugger-all about the PS4, warts and all.

I don't know about leaving the 'next gen' all together (hence why I said I would go Sony, even though I HATE that company, but that all depends on if they pull this same 'always on' shit as MS), but leaving Microsoft and the Xbox for the next gen? Simple. And I will, as will many others..

Never underestimate the general public, they'll turn your back on you in a heartbeat, even if it's not the right decision. :shifty:

[MinionZombie]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/984231_315074298626626_845443386_n.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

Sneaky bastard. :D

[shootemindehead]

I don't know about leaving the 'next gen' all together (hence why I said I would go Sony, even though I HATE that company, but that all depends on if they pull this same 'always on' shit as MS), but leaving Microsoft and the Xbox for the next gen? Simple. And I will, as will many others..

Never underestimate the general public, they'll turn your back on you in a heartbeat, even if it's not the right decision. :shifty:

Bingo.

I was interested in getting a new Xbox, even though I am more of a PC man meself. But the shite that's being put out with this thing has totally put me off. I WILL NOT be getting one, end of. If Sony play their cards right, then they will reap the rewards. People will just switch. There's little difference in the existing platforms anyway, quality wise, so I cannot imagine that there will be much difference in the next gen series either.

I STILL cannot believe how bloody stupid these decisions are. It really is amazing. The "Always On" bullshit alone is a massive deal breaker for many, many people. Not out of principle, but practicality. In one fell swoop, MS have seriously damaged their profit margin. It's incredible.

[Neil]

I STILL cannot believe how bloody stupid these decisions are. It really is amazing. The "Always On" bullshit alone is a massive deal breaker for many, many people. Not out of principle, but practicality. In one fell swoop, MS have seriously damaged their profit margin. It's incredible.
What's your thinking behind this? Who these days hasn't got internet access?

[MinionZombie]

What's your thinking behind this? Who these days hasn't got internet access?

Loads of people. Either none whatsoever, or only dial up, or rather slow broadband (my connection is rated "F" compared to the rest of the UK), and WiFi is a whole other issue (for example, we don't have it whatsoever) - plus there's even practical concerns like your internet might come into one room, but your console could be in a totally different room on a different floor on a different end of the house (such as it is with me) ... there's also things like military bases where they don't have the net where they have their console set up, so yeah, LOADS of people either don't have the web or don't have just the right set-up.

It all seems rather unclear though - one MS guy says one thing, but then minutes later another contradicts him - it's as if they haven't decided on these simple and obvious issues before launching the console in the public eye ... which is just stupid.

Apparently it's not "always on", but does require a connection every 24 hours, but then another person said that was only "one possibility" - but then that's all we get - FFS, why can't they just give a definitive ruddy answer?

[shootemindehead]

What's your thinking behind this? Who these days hasn't got internet access?

I personally know several people that don't have net access, except in work.

Also, in many places in the world, connection and speeds are rubbish. Rural areas suffer particularly from this. My wifes sister lives in a country area and her net is diabolical. It's like an old 56k connection.

The "always on" thing is an incredibly small minded pursuit by Microsoft.

- - - Updated - - -




It all seems rather unclear though - one MS guy says one thing, but then minutes later another contradicts him - it's as if they haven't decided on these simple and obvious issues before launching the console in the public eye ... which is just stupid.

Apparently it's not "always on", but does require a connection every 24 hours, but then another person said that was only "one possibility" - but then that's all we get - FFS, why can't they just give a definitive ruddy answer?

Because they know what a monumental f*ck up the whole thing is. So, obfuscation is the order of the day.

I've heard that games (or games access) are stored on the cloud (in other words you can't start a game unless connected), so the console needs to be connected for that and it performs a "check" every day, so a connection is needed for that as well.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony are getting my shillings, presuming they don't bugger it up as well.

TBH, I'd like to see consoles die altogether and then we can get back to enjoying adult PC games.

[LouCipherr]

What's your thinking behind this? Who these days hasn't got internet access?

At our new vacation house in West Virginia, we can't get internet access and we are about 6-7 miles outside of one of the biggest WV cities. Considering our place is in a fairly populated neighborhood, it leads me to believe there are quite a few people out there who can't get it even if they wanted to.

What I don't understand about all of this crap is, isn't the xbox supposed to be a GAMING system? Why can't MS keep their gaming stuff and all the rest of the bells and whistles separate? I never, ever wanted my xbox to be my "media center" - it was bought to play games, period. I don't mind the whole netflix and youtube access and all, but why the hell would anyone ever want an xbox to be their "all-in-one entertainment center"? I mean, really? There's WAY better options for an all-in-one media center than an Xbox. :lol:

[Neil]

OK! I can see where you guys are coming from now!

[Danny]

What's your thinking behind this? Who these days hasn't got internet access?

Its not that "lots of people dont have the internet" thats the problem, its that it requires it for everything. Even single player games.

Say a new red dead game came out, you buy it and leave on your shelf for a rainy day when suddenly the internet goes down. Cant play anything online or browse the internet, so maybe youll finally get around to that new red dead game.

oh.

wait.

See the problem here? They took an inch with charging us to use our own internet connections on the 360, now after we gave them that they take a mile and say "f*ck you consumer, this is our console you are just renting the privilege to use it and WE say what you can play on it and when at OUR say so otherwise its a brick".

Its beyond arrogant big brother tactics you would assume to see from some facist government in an 80's sci fi flick. this is a f*cking videogame console thats "all in one".

Trouble is thats putting all your shit in one box under their control.

Again, anyone who buys this is a f*cking fool.

[EvilNed]

I don't know anyone who doesn't have internet.

[LouCipherr]

... it requires it for everything. Even single player games.

I think this is the biggest screwup in regards to the XB1. Single player requiring internet connection?

Puh-lease.

[Danny]

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

So they just filed a patent for the kinect 2 where it watches you when you load up a movie and if kinect detects too many people it charges your live account card for additional copies of the film or reports you to the mpaa.

blunder. of. the. century.

[LouCipherr]

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

So they just filed a patent for the kinect 2 where it watches you when you load up a movie and if kinect detects too many people it charges your live account card for additional copies of the film or reports you to the mpaa.

WHAT?!

:stunned:

[AcesandEights]

WHAT?!

:stunned:

Exactly my response. Seems like some sort of distortion of the situation, however I can't rule anything out by Microsoft.

[LouCipherr]

So let me guess, the code name for the Xbox One was "Skynet" wasn't it? :lol:

[Rancid Carcass]

Disturbing rumours on Eurogamer:


Anyone buying that second-hand game will need to pay an activation fee of £35


shops could be forced to sell second-hand games at a maximum discount of 10 per cent.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-24-this-is-how-xbox-one-game-trade-ins-will-work-apparently

Surely this can't be right, could it???

:eek:

[Neil]

That's scary and will utterly kill the second hand market!

That said, it's sort of the way some of it is going. I buy all my games (well most) through Steam. I can't sell/lend those!

[Danny]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-24-this-is-how-xbox-one-game-trade-ins-will-work-apparently

£35 to unlock preowned games. While that at least means games will still be attainable after they leave shelves - particularly if theres a small release for a game, but still if you get a game preowned for like £19.99, the common preowned price for triple a titles that can maintain sales long after its release, and then pay £35? thats like 85 dollars for a preowned game for american posters.

Sure you could get a game like a dollar or something years later if its not like gta or something and they hike it back up for 20 every time a new ones on the way because "lol sequel tax" but you are still paying almost full price for a game, more actually if you go to a shop like asda or wall mart and get it for below the gamestore price.


Now i know the other shit pissed me off, and with good reason. This just seems a strange move. Are they trying to dissuade used games sales? or just make more money because of them? Its difficult to say what exactly they hope to gain from this one because im hard pressed to think of a situation where i found get like a "4 games for £20" deal from gamestation and then be willing to give up a further £140 just to be able to play those 4 games. I guess they think people will be more urged to buy something new because that would be like a different deal, but honestly it pretty much works out to cost the same as the new game, but its not garuanteed to be in good condition.
So why buy preowned at all if its not a price on savings?

Well i dont know about you but that only leaves finding obscure games that you missed a few years back that you can no longer find brand new as the only reason. But then i could just go to some site like amazon or play asia or something to find a sealed copy cheap which in the long run is just harming your local game retailers and nobody else.

Which, when you think about it, is exactly the same situation as right now.

[shootemindehead]

What happens then if Sony continue with the current 2nd hand games situation? Would that mean pressure from publishers to get them to toe the line with the MS way? Or will they just say fu*k you and carry on and where will that lead? It's a strange situation.

It seems that this thing has adapted a lot of bad things and doesn't seem to offer anything that's worth handing over 100's of Euros for.

I actually cannot see any reason to fork out for one.

[Danny]

Well the long and short of it is all these things there are pushing are things from the pc because they want greater windows 8 interconnectivity. Which just makes the consumer think "if i want that ill buy a gaming pc"

[Neil]

What happens then if Sony continue with the current 2nd hand games situation? Would that mean pressure from publishers to get them to toe the line with the MS way? Or will they just say fu*k you and carry on and where will that lead? It's a strange situation.

It seems that this thing has adapted a lot of bad things and doesn't seem to offer anything that's worth handing over 100's of Euros for.

I actually cannot see any reason to fork out for one.

Indeed, if Sony allow the second hand market to continue, and given the PS4 is more powerful, it could appeal to a lot of folks!

[Danny]

Indeed, if Sony allow the second hand market to continue, and given the PS4 is more powerful, it could appeal to a lot of folks!

Still needs a selling point though. I mean a lot of folks this gen, myself included hated the ps3 because it had shit all games, the last 2 years have turned that around with it far outdoing the 360 in new ip exclusives. Hopefully sony learned that you should start that strong, not end that way.

Personally i feel the last of us and beyond: two souls should have been held as launch titles. That and industry rumour suggests they are really throwing money at konami to keep metal gear solid 5 a sony exclusive.

[Neil]

But the PS4 has moved hardware so it will be easier for developers to port to it from PC/Xbox.

[Danny]

But the PS4 has moved hardware so it will be easier for developers to port to it from PC/Xbox.

True, but its all up to sony learning its lesson from last gen or not. They came out late with not enough games, poor online security and a psn that at the time was a really shitty xbla imitation. They have the potential to come out swinging, but after the wii U and xbox one reveals im cautiously optimistic at best.

[MinionZombie]

I do wonder - what with all these contradictory statements from inside MS, and all the general confusion and befuddlement over any question that gamers and the gaming industry actually WANT answers to - if MS has chucked all these possibilities in to test the water and see how they fly. If they can get away with it, it stays, but if the market says "sod that you cheeky bastards" and starts gripping tightly onto their money, then MS would (surely?!) cast some of these idiotic ideas out the window ... ... that's what I'd hope for at this stage ... ... but the fact that they thought these ideas were good enough to even attempt to get by the consumer just shows a real corporate ignorance of their consumers.

Everytime they try to explain something I'm just like "waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too complicated ... my brain hurts" ... ... as well as thinking "the stupid. it burns!"

[Danny]

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1Is9YJ/www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements

achievements for watching adverts?

I think this is the biggest troll in history. it HAS to be..

[Tricky]

One of my work colleagues pre ordered his Xbox today, £600!!!!!! I can see that causing some disappointment at Christmas when kids start demanding one that their parents can't afford!

[MinionZombie]

One of my work colleagues pre ordered his Xbox today, £600!!!!!! I can see that causing some disappointment at Christmas when kids start demanding one that their parents can't afford!

HOW MUCH???!!! :stunned::eek::stunned:

*oh my, the vapours...*

[krakenslayer]

One of my work colleagues pre ordered his Xbox today, £600!!!!!! I can see that causing some disappointment at Christmas when kids start demanding one that their parents can't afford!

I think that's probably a placeholder price. Retailers want to allow Xbox superfans to pre-order the console, but don't know how much to charge for it, as the retail price has not yet been announced. So they sell it at a price that they expect to be higher than the final price, by a safe margin of £100-£200, then refund whatever the difference is back to the consumer when the console is shipped. It's less hassle for the retailer than trying to guesstimate the price, then having to chase customers for an extra £50 or £100 when the cost fluctuates in the run-up to release.

[Neil]

As Kraken says, those are at place holder prices I believe. ie: They'll drop down to the actual price close to release.

[Tricky]

Even so, if it drops by £100 it's still far, far more than any parent on an average income is going to want to spend so little Johnny has a big smiley face at Christmas, except they'll feel they have to. It's fine for someone working who wants to spend that on themselves if they have the money, but my parents winced at the prospect of spending £100 on a Megadrive for me when I was 11, never mind the best part of a months wages!

[Neil]

9ekOtn7L1N0

[krakenslayer]

Even so, if it drops by £100 it's still far, far more than any parent on an average income is going to want to spend so little Johnny has a big smiley face at Christmas, except they'll feel they have to. It's fine for someone working who wants to spend that on themselves if they have the money, but my parents winced at the prospect of spending £100 on a Megadrive for me when I was 11, never mind the best part of a months wages!

I suspect, in this case, it will drop by a fair bit more than £100. The retailers don't even have a ballpark figure for the final RRP, so they're just playing safe with an insanely high estimate. It also allows them to upsell people loads of extras on their order come launch day: "Hey, you've already paid/commited to pay us £600. The console is only £300 now. Why don't we just give you £300 of games and accessories to make up the difference, since you were already willing to spend the full amount anyway?" They're clever bastards.

I would be very surprised if the console, or a version of the console (something akin to the Core/Arcade 360s), isn't avalable for under £300. Three hundred seems to be the psychological barrier between acceptable and "get tae fuck" with consoles.

[Neil]

I suspect it will be well north of £300... Wouldn't be surprised if it's close to £399!

[krakenslayer]

I suspect it will be well north of £300... Wouldn't be surprised if it's close to £399!

Possibly. It's all speculation at the moment, of course, but there has been a lot of talk about industry going for a lower launch price this generation: http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/general/1300195/analyst-suggests-final-xbox-one-and-playstation-4-pricing

[MinionZombie]

There's talk of the PS4 being $349 and the Xbox One being $399 ... I wouldn't be surprised if they just changed the $ for a £ to shove it right up the arse of those using Sterling, conversion rates be damned ($399 is about £260). :rolleyes:

[Neil]

^ So the PS4 is cheaper too! Another nail in One's coffin?

[EvilNed]

Even so, if it drops by £100 it's still far, far more than any parent on an average income is going to want to spend so little Johnny has a big smiley face at Christmas, except they'll feel they have to. It's fine for someone working who wants to spend that on themselves if they have the money, but my parents winced at the prospect of spending £100 on a Megadrive for me when I was 11, never mind the best part of a months wages!

Isn't that what new consoles cost, tho?

What was the initial price of the 360 upon release?

- - - Updated - - -


There's talk of the PS4 being $349 and the Xbox One being $399 ... I wouldn't be surprised if they just changed the $ for a £ to shove it right up the arse of those using Sterling, conversion rates be damned ($399 is about £260). :rolleyes:

You got to add taxes to the dollars, tho. So 400 bucks would be more like 450, wouldn't it?

[Neil]

Sky (UK) to offer XBox One? - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/sky-rumoured-to-offer-xbox-one-with-subscription-packages-8647689.html




Sky television viewers may be offered Xbox One consoles as part of their package later this year, according to speculation surfacing at the videogame industry's largest gathering in Los Angeles.

Microsoft is understood to have been in talks with the broadcasting giant and is keen to expand on the current offering which allows Sky TV services to be viewed on Xbox 360 consoles.

It is not known whether the device would work as a replacement set-top box or work alongside the existing Sky+ HD device.

But it is believed the console would be offered at a reduced cost, allowing Microsoft to shift more consoles than its nearest rival Sony which is preparing its PlayStation 4 for launch.

[Danny]

Sky (UK) to offer XBox One? - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/sky-rumoured-to-offer-xbox-one-with-subscription-packages-8647689.html

Sky has put out a statement saying this isnt true.

in other news: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57588146-75/xbox-one-restricts-disk-resales-requires-daily-gaming-check-in/

You must log in to xbox live from the console in your home once a day via the internet or it locks off the ability to play games.

[krisvds]

What makes most people so sure Sony wont be going the DRM route? Both companies will most likely leave the decision with the game companies themselves. Little hypocrits. Goes a long way into explaining why the EA's of this world are all but abandoning the wii U. Top dollar is to be made on PS4 and Xbone. Mark my words; both will make it nigh on impossible to go buy/sell second hand games.

[Mr. Clean]

If anything....I'll go with the PS4 due to Xbox's next price hike of XBL Gold Membership that no doubt will be coming in 2 to 3 years if not sooner....Since they have figured out that they can convince people to buy those season passes for call of duty and other titles....Microsoft will try to squeeze another 5 or 10 dollars out of their consumers.

[Neil]

I'd buy the PS4 just in the hopes of a "The Last Of Us" port from the PS3 :)

[MinionZombie]

Well if the "One" requires, and will still require by the time of launch, a daily connection - then I'm out, I guess - I wouldn't be able to connect it at all (I'm not even connected now on the 360, and nothing will have changed by the time I would have bought a "One") ... ... so it looks like MS don't want my cash (nor the cash of similar folks like myself).

Morons.

[krisvds]

Good read:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile


The fact that Microsoft's policies governing game ownership, sharing and privacy are not surprising does not make them any less devastating to consumer rights, should they be formally adopted and become a standard. They sacrifice our freedom to own and trade games for no other reason than corporate self-interest.

[MinionZombie]

9z2O32YxeNY

Some more clarification - but every time folks try to clarify things, it just gets more confusing and complicated.

Regarding connections - every 24 hours for everyone (hence why I'm stuffed by MS), and if you want to play a game on your account, but on someone else's machine, then it has to connect every hour. :confused:

What's more, they recommend a 1.5mbit connection ... surely everyone has that, right?! NO. They don't. And you know who doesn't? Me. At best we're at 1.2, but in the last few days it's gone - for the first time - below 1mbit ... we're languished around 0.8mbit at the moment ... or, in other words, an "F" national rating, and an "F+" global rating ... and we've got no wireless whatsoever.

Yeah, MS, everyone's got superfast broadband. Go f*ck yourselves.

[Morto Vivente]

I haven't owned a Playstation since the 1st generation and have been with Xbox since the original console, but after following this thread it's pretty tempting to return to Sony after 11 years with Microsoft. I suspect many others will be equally tempted considering the Xbox One , talk about commercial suicide. Sometimes extremely smart people are really bloody stupid.

Even if I don't get a PS4 immediately the further drop in price on the PS3 will make buying one just to play "The Last of Us" all the sweeter. :)

[LouCipherr]

The fact that Microsoft's policies governing game ownership, sharing and privacy are not surprising does not make them any less devastating to consumer rights, should they be formally adopted and become a standard. They sacrifice our freedom to own and trade games for no other reason than corporate GREED.

Fixed your quote, krisvds. :shifty: :D

[krisvds]

Fixed your quote, krisvds. :shifty: :D

Hehe. Good one.
But hey, people might grow a brain and vote with their wallet this time and thus make sure microsoft can shove their xbone you know where? Right?
:sneaky:

[LouCipherr]

Hehe. Good one.
But hey, people might grow a brain and vote with their wallet this time and thus make sure microsoft can shove their xbone you know where? Right?
:sneaky:

I certainly hope so.. We shall see. :D

[babomb]

Part of the connectivity signing in every 24 hours would prevent people from using a friends login info to play their game.

When you add all these things up, it equals more revenue for MS and their licensed game partners. Even if alot of people decide not to buy the next gen console. Because eventually no more games will come out for the 360. So then you'll be forced to either buy a next gen or quit playing console games.
Another thing to consider is that this next gen xbox is marketed to a younger generation. A generation that's highly addicted to internet access being constantly available. They can't go 10 minutes without texting, chatting, updating facebook, tweeting. There's this new idea that anyone who doesn't habitually take part in online activity is weird or has something to hide.
So the older crowd, that prefers single player games and doesn't have xbox live, or a constant internet connection, well, these aren't people that MS really gives a shit about. These are 2nd class consumers in the eyes of the tech giants.
Because the next gen consoles aren't the only industries that are implementing these kind of dictator style business policies. Remember that MS doesn't only make consoles. And these policies work hand in hand with their other products. This is beneficial to them because now you not only have to buy the console for a hefty initial price, but to use it you have to pay for an xbox live subscription. A constant stream of revenue.
You can't get a free game from a friend, or trade something else for a game. Now you have to pay a tax to use an older game. It's this new business aristocracy taking hold. All these companies know that a great majority of people are dependent on their products so they'll pay more and more.
Adobe recently announced that they're no longer selling software. Now they're selling their software products as a service called "creative cloud". To use their software now you have to have an annual contract that cost $50 a month. And it's authorized through the cloud service. So if you aren't connected to the internet when you try to launch an Adobe application like Photoshop, you won't be able to run it.
This is the same thing as if they deauthorized their software everytime a new version was released so you had to buy the upgrade to keep using it. There's an awful lot of people that buy Photoshop and use the same version for several years before upgrading. Those people will now be forced to pay $600 every year to use photoshop. So they're forcing you to pay for upgrades that in many cases you'll never actually use. If you're a photographer and only use a small set of photoshops tools, like the HDR tools and basic photo editing features, those features won't have major upgrades every year that justify paying $600 every year for. You wouldn't normally pay the $600 to upgrade if the parts of the application you used didn't justify it. Now you have no choice. You pay or don't play.

What's worse is that other companies like Microsoft and Apple are watching to see how it works out for Adobe. And if it works well they'll adopt the same policy.
Which would mean that you'll have to pay a monthly or yearly fee to use Windows/Office, or MacOSX/Final Cut/iOS. And if you don't like the newest version, well, tough shit. You're still gonna have to pay for it. Or if you have an older computer that can't run the newest version, tough shit again. Buy a new computer or else you'll be paying for products you aren't even using.

These policies work hand in hand for all the companies involved. They're effectively forcing people to continue to pay for products they don't want or need, and in some cases can't or won't even be able to use. Within a year or so Photoshop will stop supporting Windows7 or MacOSX Mountain Lion. So then you'll have to upgrade your OS or you'll be paying for upgrades to Photoshop that you can't use. Then in 2 years if/when MS and Apple switch to subscription based service, that brand new PC or Mac you just bought won't be able to update the OS you payed for without paying more for the subscription. Then in another year Windows and OSX won't support your CPU anymore, so you'll be paying for a subscription to MS or Apple for upgrades you can't use, AND to Adobe for upgrades that your OS is too old to run. So then you'll have to buy a new computer or keep paying for subscriptions for products you can't use.
So people will be locked into this cycle where they have to continue paying several technology companies for the use of their products. Not when YOU choose, when the company says it's time. This works out well for vendors like HP,Dell, Apple that sell hardware also. Because now people will be upgrading their hardware to keep up with software.
It's insulting that they think they can do this.

[shootemindehead]

Thanks Ba.

Dying with a hangover here and you've just made it worse.


:barf:



:D


Seriously though, if companies do take this route as a general rule, then an awful lot of people will simply tune out. I don't use any Apple products because I fu*king despise them and Microsoft will go on the same list if they want to as well.

People who are savvy enough will just go to Linux, or something like that. An alternative OS will open up.

I'm hoping that this Xbox One nonsense blows up badly in Microsoft's face. So badly, that heads roll and the "features" being implemented are seen to be a retrograde step and are abandoned from future plans.

Likewise I hope that Adobe's dicking about fails as well. The idea of the cloud licence is fine when you're working for a company. I am using the cloud at the moment for Photoshop, Lightroom, etc. But for the man in the street, as it were, it's a terrible idea and I can't see it working. There's no way in hell that I would sign up to something like a monthly or yearly suscription fee for photoshop. I'll simply make do with what I have. I only moved from Photoshop 7 to CS 5.5 very recently at home and I am very happy to stay with 5.5 for the forseeable future and I only moved because of "content aware fill", which is the best thing to happen to the program in decades.

I'm still using XP for gods sake and have no intention of moving to anything else and if I do, it'll be to Win 7 on a duel boot machine.

[babomb]

I hope this all blows up badly in all these companies faces!

Thing with Adobe pisses me off because I get upgrades through a small company I do work for, they have a volume licensing contract. I don't do that much work for them anymore because they keep scaling their whole operation down. So it's pretty much definite that with Adobes new cloud licensing that it's all over for me now in that regard. This company isn't gonna do that because they're among those customers that totally skip versions until there's several new features that actually make the price of upgrading worth it. So by the time that they feel that opting into this new creative cloud service is worth it, they're not gonna be able to offer me a seat in a volume license plan because adobe has changed their pricing and it will cost them substantially more.
So any work I do for them after that will likely have to be done in-house on one of their workstations unless I decide to pay for my own subscription plan. Which i can't/won't do.

Then there's the inevitable, where Microsoft will likely go the same route with cloud subscriptions. Apple screwed me real bad on the last workstation I bought from them. So I don't use their products anymore at all. Except iTunes and Quicktime which are free.
I just recently switched to Win7 from XP because I got a deal on a Dell workstation at an estate auction. But it's not a brand new machine and it's likely that after a couple more years, once a new CPU comes out, that MS will stop supporting older hardware on their new versions of Windows.

I have several older machines that run Linux. For general computing it's the way to go if you're willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use and maintain it. The problem is that very few professional applications run on it. None of the pro apps I use run on it. You can run Photoshop 7 under Wine, which is a win32 emulation environment. But performance is bad. For 3D your only option is Blender, which is open source but it's not very good on accelerated graphics because Linux doesn't have good support for GPU's. It only supports OpenGL2, so Linux can't even take advantage of the updated features and performance of a new graphics card.

So it seems that the future of technology could turn out to be an exclusive thing. If you are in a position to afford to keep up with regular hardware upgrades and software subscription plans, then you can be part of the "in-crowd" that's forced to constantly pay for the pleasure of having the latest and greatest. But if you're a person that makes due with modest hardware that's always a few years behind, well, you're gonna be forced to either pay for costly subscription plans for software that you're not able to run just so you can be licensed to run software you've already payed for. Or else you'll have to make due with cheap and free solutions that make doing what you want/need to do more difficult or not possible.

It's like some secret group of big business players got together and brainstormed on how they can screw everyone just a little bit more.

[Neil]

I'm still using XP for gods sake and have no intention of moving to anything else and if I do, it'll be to Win 7 on a duel boot machine.
Most people only move from something like XP because the support is pulled on it, so they have little or no choice...

For 99% of users the functionality of XP is no different to what they can get from Windows 7 - They boot up, click on an icon, and run a program...

[babomb]

Most people only move from something like XP because the support is pulled on it, so they have little or no choice...

For 99% of users the functionality of XP is no different to what they can get from Windows 7 - They boot up, click on an icon, and run a program... This!
Windows7 has some bells and whistles. Mostly eye candy though. Slightly different filesystem structure. Some changes to the networking protocols, it has a subsystem for UNIX based applications, NFS support. But nothing the average user is gonna ever need or deal with.

The biggest difference is just the interface. It gives more information about files and drives in explorer, has transparent windows and taskbar, and more realistic icons and interface elements. You can apply alot more themes now too.

My favorite features are the "libraries", you can create libraries for filetypes and media and include an unlimited number of different locations in the library. So when you open the library it lists files from all the different locations. So you don't have to hunt down photos, videos, music, documents that are in different folders on different drives. And it's as easy as right clicking a folder and clicking "include in library".

And Windows Media Player now has a feature called "Windows Media Networking Service", it catalogs all your media and allows you to stream it to other windows media aware devices. So you can copy DVD's to your hard drive, or create music and photo collections, or store videos in MP4, WMV, AVI, and then watch that media on an Xbox360 connected to a TV in another room. It works really well too.
Only downside is that the service that runs on the win7 machine tends to use almost half your CPU power to index the media. But it isn't constantly indexing though. It indexes your media after you set it up, and then periodically checks to see if you've added more media and then indexes it.

[MinionZombie]

This!
Windows7 has some bells and whistles. Mostly eye candy though. Slightly different filesystem structure. Some changes to the networking protocols, it has a subsystem for UNIX based applications, NFS support. But nothing the average user is gonna ever need or deal with.

http://i.qkme.me/35aoq0.jpg

Couldn't resist. :D

[Danny]

Welp, todays the day. How do you think damage controls going to pan out?

They've already cancelled their Q and A so they clearly want full control on exactly what information is coming out today

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/khazrak/1370841032787_zps9c8ddc8c.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/khazrak/media/1370841032787_zps9c8ddc8c.jpg.html)

Personally im expecting a train wreck, followed by halo 5 and fable 4 announcements.

[Neil]

They've already cancelled their Q and A so they clearly want full control on exactly what information is coming out today.Wow!!

[Danny]

Some more comments from industry journalists going to e3:
Confirmed Microsoft is actively attempting to get developers to not mention PS4 versions. If they don't say "OUR GAME IS EXCLUSIVE FOR XBONE" expect a PS4 version.
More DRM messaging at Gamescom. There is no rental strategy. Try to sweep it under the rug and hope people don't remember.
Cloud power was designed as DRM. Period. DRM was Microsoft's idea. EA and Ubisoft are supporters, Activision is against it.
DRM plans are actually worse than what they've stated.
Mirror's Edge 2 at MS conference.
Prince of Persia reboot at MS conference.
Secret Phil Spencer game = World of Tanks
Xbox Live paywall still there, expect a price increase.
Dead Rising 3, and exclusive DLC for another Capcom game at MS conference.
No online paywall for PS4. Unconfirmed.
No DRM info for PS4.

[Neil]

No online paywall for PS4. Unconfirmed.
No DRM info for PS4.

Sorry, so this means to play online with people you don't have to pay on the PS4? ie: You need to pay for XBox Live on the XBox?

And with DRM, you can just give/sell second hand discs with the PS4 and not pay unlike the XBox One?


This is going to sway a lot of people, especially as the two bits of hardware are so similar now, with the PS4 if anything being more powerful!?

[krisvds]

Apparently one of their marketing slogans on an e3 banner reads "all in one, input one".

:confused:

I know where they can input one as far as I'm concerned.

[Danny]

Sorry, so this means to play online with people you don't have to pay on the PS4? ie: You need to pay for XBox Live on the XBox?

And with DRM, you can just give/sell second hand discs with the PS4 and not pay unlike the XBox One?


This is going to sway a lot of people, especially as the two bits of hardware are so similar now, with the PS4 if anything being more powerful!?

Well you don't pay for online on the ps3 so thats really just the same thing, same with the no drm really. It's really just sony choosing to stay the same like nintendo. Its kind of why ms's whole deal is annoying people. Its doing things to similar to a pc, but people play consoles for a simpler experience and otherwise folks would just buy a pc. I mean its all rumours but if even EA is removing all its online pass drm from games we can't really do much but wait and see and hope at this point because personally if xbox AND ps3 both pull this shit? thats really pushing me away from both.

- - - Updated - - -


Apparently one of their marketing slogans on an e3 banner reads "all in one, input one".

:confused:

I know where they can input one as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah i saw that, my first reaction was "what the hell does that even mean"?

[MinionZombie]

Sheesh. They really seem determined to throw it all away, don't they? Who on earth is in charge of all this, and why haven't they been fired already? Geeeeeez... :stunned:

[shootemindehead]

Ownership is so last gen

Ha ha...f*ck off.

[Neil]

Of course, there is one benefit of DRM, which will appeal to a lot of people! No need to hunt around and swap the disc in the console. Just like the PC, it's fully installed so just click and play any of your games!

[Danny]

Of course, there is one benefit of DRM, which will appeal to a lot of people! No need to hunt around and swap the disc in the console. Just like the PC, it's fully installed so just click and play any of your games!

er, actually you still need the discs in the machine for a none digital purchase even though its installed.

[shootemindehead]

I've never seen that as any kind of real benefit. Do people really have that much trouble minding their flipping discs? It isn't that hard. Christ, I still have Dos disks.

fixed exe

[CoinReturn]

er, actually you still need the discs in the machine for a none digital purchase even though its installed.

Not true:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license


After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud. So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games.

Quit spreading FUD :p

[Neil]

^^ So I'm right? You don't need to find the appropriate disc and put it in the unit? That's good then!

I know if I had to put a disc in for my PC games it would do my head in! Far better if you don't!

[Danny]

So why on earth couldn't they do this with the xbox? or is it another facet of their current pc style drm i wonder.

[MinionZombie]

When I play a game, I have the game right by the console or PC. When I'm not playing it, it's stored safely on a shelf or in a box and I know exactly where it is - how is it hard to do that? Even on a game where I needed to have the disc in on the PC (e.g. Fallout 3 or Crysis or something), on the rare occasion I forgot to put it in, it alerted me, I stuck the disc in, and I lost what, 20 seconds or gaming time?

Yeah, intrusive, clunky, and unwanted DRM is a real life-saver. :rockbrow::p

[shootemindehead]

You're in my gang.

[babomb]

When I play a game, I have the game right by the console or PC. When I'm not playing it, it's stored safely on a shelf or in a box and I know exactly where it is - how is it hard to do that? Even on a game where I needed to have the disc in on the PC (e.g. Fallout 3 or Crysis or something), on the rare occasion I forgot to put it in, it alerted me, I stuck the disc in, and I lost what, 20 seconds or gaming time?

Yeah, intrusive, clunky, and unwanted DRM is a real life-saver. :rockbrow::p You see how it's happening, right?
This is all coming down to an all out console war of ideologies. MS is gonna give incentive to game makers for them to make games that are exclusive to the xbone. So the game makers that want to use DRM to maximize profits are gonna do it. Then there's gonna be game makers that want to appeal to the people that don't want the intrusion of the xbone and DRM, so they're gonna go with the PS4.
But there's gonna be little "benefits" coming along that appeal to people, like not having to put the game in the drive to play it, or saves and authorizations stored in the cloud that allow you to play on a different console.
So people are gonna do it. Because they don't understand the implications of intrusive DRM or are just flat out not aware of it when they buy the console, or because they want a game that is exclusive to the xbone. Some just won't care because they're blinded by the shiny new toy.
Eventually, the people that resist out of principle or for specific issues with DRM will get fewer and fewer. Then it's over for everyone.

[Danny]

Microsofts boss responded to sony: "Can't go online? buy a 360" superb...

[shootemindehead]

Bill?

[Rancid Carcass]

Looks like MS is starting to back pedal, or at least giving themselves space to do so in the coming weeks...


"We always knew that our story would play out over time. And even now, I would say, this isn't a sprint"

http://uk.gamespot.com/e3/microsoft-responds-to-xbox-one-backlash-this-isnt-a-sprint-6409849/

[Kaos]

I pre-ordered the PS4. I am sure the Xbox One will be wonderful too, but I prefer the controller and I like to pick up used games sometimes.

[babomb]

Xbox One: Details on Connectivity, Licensing and Privacy Features:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main


Two weeks ago we introduced Xbox One, the all-in-one games and entertainment device. Designed for today and the decade ahead, Xbox One puts you at the center of all of your games, TV, movies, music, sports and more. We also shared how Xbox One is built to amplify a new generation of Xbox Live that’s more powerful, personal and intelligent.

And today, we would like to share more information about our vision for Xbox One as a modern, connected device; our games licensing policies; and our privacy principles for the new Kinect sensor.

[LouCipherr]

wo weeks ago we introduced Xbox One, the all-in-one games and entertainment device. Designed for today and the decade ahead, Xbox One puts you at the center of all of your games, TV, movies, music, sports and more. We also shared how Xbox One is built to amplify a new generation of Xbox Live that’s more powerful, personal, intelligent and not to mention, more expensive!


Fixed your post. :lol:

[MinionZombie]

MS really seem to be blundering into one mind-numbingly obvious pitfall after another with this most recent snarky comment about 'those without a connection should just buy a 360' ... :rolleyes: ... they appear to be resisting the natural human instinct to learn from their mistakes.

[Neil]

Scary thing is I suspect a lot of people are just too apathetic to care and will still blindly buy an XBox One without considering what they're in for...

[MinionZombie]

Scary thing is I suspect a lot of people are just too apathetic to care and will still blindly buy an XBox One without considering what they're in for...

On the other hand, such blind buyers might look at the prices and go "hmmm, the PS4 is £80 cheaper" and therefore buy the PS4.

I suppose it's blind buyers who are loyal to the brand.

Now, I'd like to stick with the Xbox for the next gen, but with all the horeshit they've been flinging around, they've worked very hard indeed to turn me away from them. Unless they have some late-in-the-day conversion of epic proportions to a gamer friendly console (and shit-can the snarky, entitled attitude), I won't be buying the Xbone.

I owned (and still own) a Mega Drive 2, then when the PS1 etc came along I shifted over to PC gaming, and remained there until 2007 when I got into the Xbox 360 (although I did play a lot of Halo 2 in-room multiplayer on a housemate's original Xbox back in the day). I have played a far bit on the Playstation 1's of various friends, but I've never had a PS console ... that could very easily (and perhaps quite likely) all change.

[LouCipherr]

they appear to be resisting the natural human instinct to learn from their mistakes.

I think this has been Microsoft's 'modus operandi' from day one. Look at the progression of Windows. Pretty much the same thing.

[Danny]

welp, requires 1.5mps internet speed or it simply wont work, and theres "no plans for a physical power button at this time" so you MUST have kinect in to turn the xbox on via voice. What mutes and people with speech impediments will do i dont know.

- - - Updated - - -

http://jalopnik.com/i-got-thrown-in-microsoft-jail-for-taking-pictures-of-512918787

Interesting.

[MinionZombie]

welp, requires 1.5mps internet speed or it simply wont work, and theres "no plans for a physical power button at this time" so you MUST have kinect in to turn the xbox on via voice. What mutes and people with speech impediments will do i dont know.

- - - Updated - - -

http://jalopnik.com/i-got-thrown-in-microsoft-jail-for-taking-pictures-of-512918787

Interesting.

1) Well, I for one don't have 1.5mbps broadband ... but, as I've listed extensively elsewhere, there's more than one reason why the internet requirement is a complete cock-block for me (and many other people who happen to live in the real world, and not the promised land of a dev team's workplace).

2) That's a good point actually. It might be a small segment - but even still - that's a potential user (and their cash) that MS are ignoring. Everything with the Xbone seems to be about removing choice and, indeed, removing users altogether. :rockbrow:

[Neil]

welp, requires 1.5mps internet speed or it simply wont work, and theres "no plans for a physical power button at this time" so you MUST have kinect in to turn the xbox on via voice. What mutes and people with speech impediments will do i dont know.

- - - Updated - - -

http://jalopnik.com/i-got-thrown-in-microsoft-jail-for-taking-pictures-of-512918787

Interesting.

So always on? What power consumption is it using?

[Neil]

XBoxOne consoles at E3 were actually Windows 7 PCs!

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html


I just played an Xbox One game using an Xbox One controller that crashed... to a Windows 7, Hewlet Packard-branded desktop. Magic!

[Kaos]

Microsoft caved! http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

[Danny]

Microsoft caved! http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Mmm, fool me once microsoft.

I have no doubt sonys "we have more orders than we can supply demand for" announcement yesterday influenced this when the head xbox dude was saying in interviews like 48 hours ago how he "stands behind the drm decision". Just goes to show voting with your wallets does pay off.

However i still wont buy one because god knows what other surprises they have down the pipeline once youve already given them their money.

[Mr. Clean]

i still wont buy one because god knows what other surprises they have down the pipeline once youve already given them their money. I couldn't agree more.

[Neil]

Microsoft caved! http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Amazing!

[MinionZombie]

Naturally, there's got to be a sting in the tail - you still have to register it online in a "one-time" deal when you first get your console.

Perhaps MS weren't listening to the entire US military, and Navy etc - they DON'T HAVE A CONNECTION you dozy twonks. :rolleyes: If you don't have a connection, you can't go online AT ALL, even to register it "one-time only". Sheesh!

At least they've made a smart decision on that moronic used games and 24hr policy - I mean good God, which morons were responsible for coming up with that? They certainly don't deserve a bonus this year, and if anything they deserve firing for making MS look like a complete bunch of asshats of the highest order.

I'm still not liking this Kinect bullshit either, though. I've never ever ever ever ever wanted Kinect, so why the hell should I be forced into having one - plus it looks clunky-as-all-buggery. How on earth is anyone going to balance that crap on top of their flat screen LCD televisions?! :rolleyes:

I don't know why it requires a "one time" online activiation at all - if you don't need 24 hour checks, why on earth do you need any check at any time?

This is a good move in the right direction - but valuable trust and respect from the fanbase has been lost - there's considerable damage surrounding the Xbone, and clearly still a lot of suspicion. :shifty:

[capncnut]

Haha, Microsoft would sell their own arseholes for a quick buck! :P

I wouldn't even consider buying an Xbone until they a. make the camera optional and b. undercut, or at least match, the price of the PS4. I believe that is what it takes for Microsoft to have a remote chance in the next gen war. I'm getting a PS4 simply because I'm done with shelling out hundreds on faulty machines time and time again. Microsoft couldn't make a fully operational console if their worthless lives depended on it.

[LouCipherr]

However i still wont buy one because god knows what other surprises they have down the pipeline once youve already given them their money.

^ This.

Their back-tracking on the DRM makes no difference to me whatsoever. I still won't buy one.

That being said, I find it extremely hilarious that Microsoft caved in to public pressure.


Off topic observation: Here's what i find really disturbing about all of this, and I thought about this when I read this news yesterday. Y'know, the government can screw us over three ways to sunday on a daily basis and everyone is complacent about it. No one gives a shit. But.... screw with our little gaming box? Sheeeeit, all hell breaks loose and the populace goes into an uproar and puts enough pressure on MS to change their ways. Why can't we do this for anything else but a stupid plastic gaming box?! Is this how screwed up our priorities are??? Meh, just a thought. I digress...

[shootemindehead]

Microsoft caved! http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Well, there's a shock


Thanks Sony. You did more to save gaming than you'll ever know.

M$ can still go and shite though.

[Danny]

Welp.

http://allthingsd.com/20130701/exclusive-microsofts-entertainment-head-don-mattrick-leaving-to-take-top-role-possibly-ceo-at-zynga/?mod=tweet


MS's xbox head has jumped ship to f*cking zynga of all people.

Must be a f*ckton of money to lure him away if just a month ago he was defending always online and the xbox one as "the future" and now hes pissing off to work for the farmville guys.

[MinionZombie]

Another about-turn revision from MS - the Xbox One will no longer require Kinect to function.

Will we therefore be seeing a cheaper version on sale (i.e. just the console that people want, without that bullshit hand-wavey spy camera) - time shall tell, but I'd bet on it.

They've made a right old blunder with the launch of this console, but at least they're trying to rectify their glaring errors ... those responsible for it happening in the first place should be fired, or at least demoted without bonuses ... I mean good lord. :rolleyes:

With all these changes, my jury is still out on which console I'd buy - not that I'd buy one at launch, but at a later date, I mean.

[CoinReturn]

Here's an in-depth look at the improvements made to the controller from 360 to One. Can't wait to get my hands on it:

m4SYaTLCWL0

[shootemindehead]

That thing looks bloody awful.

The original design was much better.

[CoinReturn]

8QrZP0AmUvk

Here's a great interview, straightforward questions and answers about the console.

[shootemindehead]

Nothing that guy said makes me want to fork out for the xbone...

[Neil]

Don't stand it vertical or else! - http://uk.gamespot.com/tgs/microsoft-on-xbox-one-vertical-orientation-do-it-at-your-own-risk-6414731/


The Xbox One won't support vertical orientation, and could damage the console, according to Albert Panello, senior director of product management and planning at Xbox.

[bassman]

Isn't it not a good idea to stand the current system vertically? It just sprung to mind that it seems like I heard that before.

*looks over at 360 standing vertically and gulps*....

[kidgloves]

Im usually an early adopter of technology, especially game consoles, but I think im gonna opt out for the time being in the PS4 v Xbox one race. I've still got Uncharted 2 & 3 and Arkham Asylum and City sat wrapped in cellophane. Not to mention State of Decay and Last of Us to yet finish. Its amazing how little time and how much patience you have as you get older. So many other distractions doesn't help.:confused:

[Mr. Clean]

Its amazing how little time and how much patience you have as you get older. So many other distractions doesn't help.:confused:

I have the same problem. At the moment, I tend to play Skyrim in 2-3 hrs spurts then won't touch it for several days and sometimes hesitate to pick up the controller even when I have nothing else better to do. It's not that I don't enjoy the game...I just think it's the patience thing.