TWD 3x09 "The Suicide King" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

The ninth episode of season three, and the mid-season premiere as well - keep your discussion of 3x09 to this thread, and as always keep any future comic book storylines/spoilers within "spoiler tags" (if you don't know how to use spoiler tags, go to the HPOTD FAQ and look up the section on 'BB Codes') - and finally, ENJOY THE DISCUSSION!

TWD's back folks! :hyper::hyper::hyper:

[facestabber]

Couldn't come fast enough. TWD returning has eased the pain of my 49ers loss. Really looking forward to Andreas reaction of the groups survival. Heck she doesn't even know that Rick killed her boy toy Shane.

[MinionZombie]

Couldn't come fast enough. TWD returning has eased the pain of my 49ers loss. Really looking forward to Andreas reaction of the groups survival. Heck she doesn't even know that Rick killed her boy toy Shane.

As such I want a scene where they sit her down and spill out 8 months of back-story to her. :D

[rongravy]

As such I want a scene where they sit her down and spill out 8 months of back-story to her. :D
As long as it culminates in one helluva group hug.

[facestabber]

As long as it culminates in one helluva group hug.

I'd like to see Andrea start running her mouth in her trademarked bitchy tone and Michonne knock her the F out

[Moon Knight]

It's back! I didn't even think about the Andrea/Shane connection. This is gonna be good.

[bassman]

I don't think we'll see Andrea back with the group in this episode....

[rongravy]

It's back! I didn't even think about the Andrea/Shane connection. This is gonna be good.

Not much of a connection, more like a quick plug and play...

[Moon Knight]

Not much of a connection, more like a quick plug and play...

True, my friend, I guess what I wanted to say was I want to see her reaction when/if she finds out that Rick took out Shane.

[MinionZombie]

30 pics from tonight's episode:
http://dailydead.com/30-photos-from-episode-9-of-the-walking-dead-season-3/

Should be good!

[clanglee]

It's on bitches!!! well. . in a few hours

[rongravy]

Who's got their boner pants on?!?
(I do, I do.)

[babomb]

I'm wearin assless chaps for the occasion!!

[Cykotic]

hang on... was that a certain someone? as in Lori?

WTF is going on with Rick?

and as for the whole Daryl situation... WHAT!

[babomb]

WTF is the problem with Glenn and maggie? Did I miss something?

[Cykotic]

Glenn doesn't know what the governor might or might not have done to her... he just hasn't a clue what to do next.

and isn't Glenn becoming a lil badass

- - - Updated - - -

someone just reminded me of morgan and dwayne from episode one... what do you think happened to them?

[Moon Knight]

Glenn doesn't know what the governor might or might not have done to her... he just hasn't a clue what to do next.

and isn't Glenn becoming a lil badass

- - - Updated - - -


someone just reminded me of morgan and dwayne from episode one... what do you think happened to them?

That's hard to answer w/o spoiling the book. If they even go that route.

I must say, the Governor walking in that cloud of smoke with gun drawn was pretty bad ass.

[bassman]

hang on... was that a certain someone? as in Lori?

WTF is going on with Rick?


That was Lori. They actually brought Sarah Wayne Callies back for that quick and dark scene for some odd reason. Anyway...It's just a continuation from the telephone calls. He's slipping.




someone just reminded me of morgan and dwayne from episode one... what do you think happened to them?

We may or may not know more about that before long. :)

[facestabber]

I can understand Daryl's decision. Merle is blood and the last time he saw him was prior to Merle having to cut off his hand. Now admittedly it's a big contrived because let's face it Daryl will go back. I loved Maggie with the precision AR firing. Though sweetheart aim for the idiot with the eyepatch. Pretty cool episode. I prefer the level headed Rick. Hate to see a good man fall from grace.

[Zombie Snack]

A good episode, but for me it was a bit of a letdown. I guess I was just hoping for a little more after the mid season break, and then watching the marathon leading up to the return of The Walking Dead. Again I thought it was a good episode, just not the balls to the wall, oh my god, whoa episode I had hoped for to launch the second half of the season.

[MinionZombie]

A solid episode - Lori's face looked well creepy in those shadows, not sure if it was just me or not, but it looked like they tweaked her face in the computer or something, to make her look a bit 'off', if that makes sense? So we've had Shane make a cameo reappearance, now Lori - who next? T-Dog - and back to having no lines? :p

There's a lot of stuff the characters have to deal with in this episode, so it can't be all runny/jumpy/shooty, although we got some good bits of that up-front. There's a lot of debriefing for these guys, and a lot of people new to our group who have to earn the Ricktatorship's trust first. It's good that Rick & Co know Andrea is alive and vice versa.

It makes sense of Daryl to go off with Merle - he is blood afterall, and he's been wanting to find him again ever since 1x03, they've been brothers their whole lives and that means something, even if Merle is an abusive elder (Carol's speech to Beth about abusive relationships was a good bit to add in there to further justify it). Naturally Daryl is gonna come back to the prison, because he'll discover that Merle isn't such hot shit after all - the Ricktatorship has allowed Daryl to become his own man, rather than an enduring underling. He doesn't want to go back to square one again. However, you can't just skip over such a thing, you've got to let the characters deal it out - the preview scene for the next episode suggests Daryl's regretting his decision too.

Interesting to see two very different sides of Woodbury - one minute they're baying for blood like animals, and the next they're in total panic and looking to escape - it'll be interesting to see how it develops from here. Clearly the majority of them aren't in-the-know about TG's dark side (and Andrea has only just discovered it in the last 12 hours). Good to see Andrea fighting her corner - I've never understood the hatred she gets from some folks - Andrea isn't privy to watching episodes of The Walking Dead herself. :p

Also - Glenn - dude's going dark. Pizza boy no more, that's for damn sure! The darkest moment of the episode - and the best gore moment - was definitely him stomping that undead head right-the-hell-in! :stunned:

...

Here's an interview with Glen Mazzara about 3x09:
http://dailydead.com/exclusive-glen-mazzara-on-whats-ahead-for-the-walking-dead-season-3/


Who's got their boner pants on?!?
(I do, I do.)

I did, but then they were propelled across the room like an elastic band. :lol:


Pretty cool episode. I prefer the level headed Rick. Hate to see a good man fall from grace.

Although it's good that you feel so connected to the character that you don't like to see him suffer - again, interesting stuff. This is really Rick's first major challenge. It has, relatively speaking, been a cake-walk until now. It makes sense too, barely any time has passed since Lori's untimely demise, and in such a horrible way, and he's not had the time to stop and deal with it.


A good episode, but for me it was a bit of a letdown. I guess I was just hoping for a little more after the mid season break, and then watching the marathon leading up to the return of The Walking Dead. Again I thought it was a good episode, just not the balls to the wall, oh my god, whoa episode I had hoped for to launch the second half of the season.

Like I was saying above, there's a lot the characters have to deal with at this point. It wouldn't work if we skipped over all that, or decisions made afterwards wouldn't feel as earned, but I kind of know what you mean - although I'd wager an element of it is getting so excited for the new episode. Nothing can live up to the sheer hype and excitement.

A solid episode, I thought.

Here's some memes I knocked up for 3x09:
http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/askewniverse-edition-walking-dead-3x09.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xrV3m9qczOU/URkku-VR8AI/AAAAAAAABRY/TTmwwoqtgZQ/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_3_Meme_Tyreese_History_TDo g_DeadShed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UEb-9pt8Atw/URkldDLiSbI/AAAAAAAABRg/8l10pM5sGgo/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_3_Meme_Merle_Rick_Apple_Sa uce_Bitch_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qcji4gWf8jg/URkldgnWznI/AAAAAAAABRo/v4NGpJoPRZ8/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_3_Meme_Merle_Banky_DeadShe d.jpg

[Trancelikestate]

Well, we had flyboy in the last episode, did no one else catch the airport zombie at the hole in Woodbury's fence?

[bassman]

Well, we had flyboy in the last episode, did no one else catch the airport zombie at the hole in Woodbury's fence?

I caught that, but wondered if it was intentional because he seemed to also have some damage that I don't think the Airport zombie did.

[Zombie Snack]

LOL, I announced to everyone in the room watching, that is an homage to the airport zombie!

[Andy]

Sooo... we taking bets that daryl and meryl show up at the prison just in time to help fight off the governors army? :P

[Legion2213]

WTF is the problem with Glenn and maggie? Did I miss something?

He's having a "man crisis" because he couldn't protect Maggie...and then she got all "Charles Hathcock" while he was lying about being injured. :D

Daryl better be back within the next episode or two..as for Rick, the man has some "issues" to work through (one of them being that tidy little blonde daughter of Hershels).

[AnxietyDilemma]

LOL, I announced to everyone in the room watching, that is an homage to the airport zombie!

I noticed that right away and was going to post about it here last night but thought maybe I was imagining things or looking too far into it. Glad to see that it wasn't just my imagination.

[krisvds]

What a disappointment! This series has been on the verge of becoming a messy, guilty pleasure but this new episode has really put some nails in the coffin.

First: Daryl: the moment where he had to choose between his brother or the ricktatorship was anything but tense or dramatic. It felt odd, blunt even. I imagined a tense, dramatic life or death situation, not talking heads by the side of the road? And why complain about his leaving? Merle is his brother after all and it's pretty obvious taking the guy back to the prison is a no go?

Andrea. That little speech in woodbury was b movie, comedy gold. This woman finds out that not only are her friends still alive but two of them were being kept hostage by the madman with the undead heads - collection, and all she can think of is 'don't shut me out now Philip ?! Who writes this shit?

Woodbury: every scene set in the town is really badly staged. Take a look at the opening 'gladiator' fight and the crowd watching. This is 'generic nineties action fest - bad'!

The governor: the man is not evil, he is silly; that moment where he just walked out into the streets to put the bullet in the guy's head, turns his back and then the reaction of the onlookers had me laughing out loud. Brilliant timing!

Rick's little hallucination at the end, again was so badly handled it felt anything but scary or intriguing. It's just stupid.

Glenn and Maggie? Really? Why? No explanation whatsoever for the silence... Glen freaking out and stomping the zombie's head, again, seemed out of place. Are they really playing it for laughs.

I still kinda enjoy watching this show, but it's like watching Macgyver with zombies or something: cheesy fun.

[MinionZombie]

Well, we had flyboy in the last episode, did no one else catch the airport zombie at the hole in Woodbury's fence?

I was wondering if it was a homage or not. It wasn't spot-on, but it was quite close, so yeah, I'm assuming it was an homage. :)


as for Rick, the man has some "issues" to work through (one of them being that tidy little blonde daughter of Hershels).

Grubby bastard. ;)


What a disappointment! This series has been on the verge of becoming a messy, guilty pleasure but this new episode has really put some nails in the coffin.

First: Daryl: the moment where he had to choose between his brother or the ricktatorship was anything but tense or dramatic. It felt odd, blunt even. I imagined a tense, dramatic life or death situation, not talking heads by the side of the road? And why complain about his leaving? Merle is his brother after all and it's pretty obvious taking the guy back to the prison is a no go?

Andrea. That little speech in woodbury was b movie, comedy gold. This woman finds out that not only are her friends still alive but two of them were being kept hostage by the madman with the undead heads - collection, and all she can think of is 'don't shut me out now Philip ?! Who writes this shit?

The governor: the man is not evil, he is silly; that moment where he just walked out into the streets to put the bullet in the guy's head, turns his back and then the reaction of the onlookers had me laughing out loud. Brilliant timing!

Glenn and Maggie? Really? Why? No explanation whatsoever for the silence... Glen freaking out and stomping the zombie's head, again, seemed out of place. Are they really playing it for laughs.

1) Daryl's their family now, and he feels the same way, but Merle is literally his family, and he's known Merle for his entire life, not just 8-12 months (albeit in hardcore conditions). He wants Merle to come with them, but Merle buggered that right up and naturally the others don't want Merle there, but they do want Daryl, but this is Daryl's blood - his own brother - and deep down Daryl knows Merle is an abusive son of a bitch, but as Carol was saying, it's one of those abusive relationships where Daryl (or indeed Carol with her ex) are the supplicant.

2) The speech itself wasn't very rousing to me either, or at least, not boosting enough to earn the 180 from the crowd. It needed some work.

3) I didn't find fault with this moment at all. Since the invasion and the loss of Penny-Z, the Governor's last shreds of humanity have gone. He doesn't care for public speaking and the politics anymore, and again, this is only mere hours since his battle with Michonne in which Penny-Z was put down. Plus he's got an eye out, so he's not exactly in a stable head space.

4) No explanation? They gave plenty of explanation. Glenn knows that The Governor did something to Maggie, and while she swears she wasn't raped, Glenn doesn't know that for sure - Maggie could just be telling him what he wants to hear - plus he was tortured, they attempted to feed him to a walker, and then Merle is brought back, plus Glenn feels guilty/angry about not being part of the rescue party for Daryl because he was too injured, and yet Maggie did go in to help rescue Daryl. There's a lot of darkness going on in his head at this point - a shit-ton of craziness has happened in the last 12-or-so in-show hours - and him stomping the walker's head right-in is a physical expression of it all. How is that out of place or played for laughs? :confused:

[krisvds]

They gave plenty of explanation. Glenn knows that The Governor did something to Maggie, and while she swears she wasn't raped, Glenn doesn't know that for sure - Maggie could just be telling him what he wants to hear - plus he was tortured, they attempted to feed him to a walker, and then Merle is brought back, plus Glenn feels guilty/angry about not being part of the rescue party for Daryl because he was too injured, and yet Maggie did go in to help rescue Daryl. There's a lot of darkness going on in his head at this point - a shit-ton of craziness has happened in the last 12-or-so in-show hours - and him stomping the walker's head right-in is a physical expression of it all. How is that out of place or played for laughs? :confused:

Sure, I get all that. It's supposed to be a gut wrenching, dramatic moment for poor Glenn as he loses his cool and all ...
I just rewatched the scene. I'm sorry, but to me it's just another in a long line of cheap 'let's have a cheap gory close up of head being stomped to bits' scene. The performance, the timing, ... might just be me, but I found it awkward. As far as overall writing, characterisation and mise-en-scène (can't come up with an exact English equivalent, forgive me, mother tongue and all ...) the series is a mess. This was just one example of a moment that's supposed to be tense and just falls flat.

[Zombie Snack]

I still love this show, really I am grateful for the chance to watch a show like the walking dead. I will admit the show is not perfect, but will there ever be "The perfect zombie series"...I can't say. This series is awesome and spot on 80-85 percent of the time. Maybe that is why at least to me anyways when it misses a spot or is off it stands out so much or seems so cheesy. Most of the acting/casting has been great, but there are exceptions, and most of the cheesy bits are small and maybe not really noticed or picked up on by the casual viewer, but for those like us who thrive on this type of show, it is like finger nails screeching along a chalk board. Herschel's shotgun that holds 50 shells, the awesome headshots while hanging out a car window or while on the run, The zombie that bit Herschel..come on that was lame...and the digging of 3 graves when there was only 1 half eaten body...wtf? These are just some of the things that makes me wonder, how do they get so much right, and then let things like this slip thru. My biggest fear is with the growing popularity of this show...and with it becoming more "mainstream" that we will see more of a dumbing down of the series, to appease to more of the mainstream, brain dead, television viewers. I hope not.

[AcesandEights]

A decent episode, but a bit toothless and shallowly thought out, perhaps. And I say this having wanted and expected a reset episode that would be setting the stage for the chills, drama and action down the line on the last half of this season. Nothing too bad, in my opinion, just this feeling that the writers were casting about a bit too much.

[facestabber]

Self admitted TWD fanboy here. But I agree with alot of what KRISVDS has mentioned. Though to KRIS, regarding Merle and Daryl, yes a little less dramatic than I expected but hang on a bit because I think we will get that in a future episode.

The scenes and people of Woodbury are very irritating. Andrea's speech.....well I laughed and in no way does that motivate me. As cheesy as Independence Day was Bill Pullman's speech made me want to fight for "Our Independence Day". Andrea's? Not even close. And her character irritates me. The pathetic fight she put up for Daryl at the arena was well pathetic. She shot the man in the head and all he said to her was, no problem you were trying to protect the group. And now she is aware of Glen and Maggie being held captive, a pet zombie daughter and fish tanks full of heads!!! She is caught up to speed enough with the audience that the argument about her ignorance is no longer holding water. She is a certified idiot.

In the span of two episodes I am growing tired of Glen's evolution. I liked Glen alot. But turning him into this 'do everything in the name of love' is just irritating. Maggie is hot, no argument, but just tone it down a tad already. He could barely walk out of Woodbury and now he's upset Maggie had to take the fight to help save Daryl. Daryl deserved their best effort, including Maggies, which I believe she whole heartedly agreed with.

Anyway the positives of this show far outweigh the nitpicking. I actually feel guilty complaining at all because this is the greatest tv show in the history of my world. Also I heard this episode broke records so congrats.

[shootemindehead]

What a disappointment! This series has been on the verge of becoming a messy, guilty pleasure but this new episode has really put some nails in the coffin.

First: Daryl: the moment where he had to choose between his brother or the ricktatorship was anything but tense or dramatic. It felt odd, blunt even. I imagined a tense, dramatic life or death situation, not talking heads by the side of the road? And why complain about his leaving? Merle is his brother after all and it's pretty obvious taking the guy back to the prison is a no go?

Andrea. That little speech in woodbury was b movie, comedy gold. This woman finds out that not only are her friends still alive but two of them were being kept hostage by the madman with the undead heads - collection, and all she can think of is 'don't shut me out now Philip ?! Who writes this shit?

Woodbury: every scene set in the town is really badly staged. Take a look at the opening 'gladiator' fight and the crowd watching. This is 'generic nineties action fest - bad'!

The governor: the man is not evil, he is silly; that moment where he just walked out into the streets to put the bullet in the guy's head, turns his back and then the reaction of the onlookers had me laughing out loud. Brilliant timing!

Rick's little hallucination at the end, again was so badly handled it felt anything but scary or intriguing. It's just stupid.

Glenn and Maggie? Really? Why? No explanation whatsoever for the silence... Glen freaking out and stomping the zombie's head, again, seemed out of place. Are they really playing it for laughs.

I still kinda enjoy watching this show, but it's like watching Macgyver with zombies or something: cheesy fun.

Yeh, I'm kind of in the same boat with Kris here. I wasn't terribly impressed with this episode.

The Daryl/Merle thing was a bit meh, but I'll let it go, because it's feasible.

Andrea's pep talk was f@ckin wretched. She's being turned into a truly awful character. Time for Kirkman to speak up about that IMHO. There's some extremely bad writing going on. Everyone nodding in agreement with her shite talk, like muppets. Fkn 'ell. I would have loved if someone in the crowd had said "Oh shut the f*ck up, you stupid c*nt. You've only been here a wet weekend". Well, not really, but you know what I mean. :p

And people being oh so shocked at the the Gov shooting a bitten man in the head so he doesn't turn? If I'm not mistaken, the dead have returned to life and are eating the living? There cannot be a living person left, in the series time frame, that hasn't seen somebody (they know) blasted in the head so they don't come back? They attend gladiator sessions for f*ck sake! That scene was a farce.

Rick's Lori vision was awful. Time to knock that on the head.

And Glenn and Maggie? Correct me if I;m wrong, but the Gov didn't actually rape Maggie right? But Glenn thinks he (possibly) did? And Maggies like, yeh I won't mention anything. What? Either way, it's being badly written.

[bassman]

The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure...

[shootemindehead]

I agree and I'd have bought it, if the Gov had said those words and managed to win the folk over. But I ain't buying it from Miss Dyed Blonde Screwy Face.

[MinionZombie]

Shoot - my take is that Glenn doesn't believe Maggie to be telling the truth (that she wasn't raped). I think Glenn thinks that Maggie was raped and that she is with-holding that information to spare him the grief ... that's making Glenn a little paranoid around Maggie ... but to be fair he's not in a calm or rational headspace. I'm sure many or all of us here would be in a similar head space if something like that happened to our beloved.


The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure...

They're sheeple, those Woodburyites. :p

Again, irrational thought and mob mentality - they're penned in and they've been attacked - QUICK - lemme outta here! Like rats fleeing a sinking ship. I liked what Mazzara had to say about the episode in that Andrea is trying to calm things down - she now knows her people are alive and that they attacked Woodbury, but she also knows why they attacked, so she's going to try and see if she can save the situation - broker a peace between the tribes, but we'll see how well that goes, particularly when The Governor comes out swinging (he's transforming in private at this point).

As I've said before, the actual words spoken by Andrea didn't inspire me at all, and I was unsure how they'd actually inspire anyone. The idea of the scene - yes, I'm all behind that - but the speech itself within the scene, no, that needed work, I feel.

As far as "niggles" with the show go - I do hope folks can keep them in perspective. They are mere niggles after all. Just think about how much they get spot-on-fantastic-correct with this show.

[ProfessorChaos]

thought the episode was decent overall, but had some gripes which all been hit on already. the interactions between merle and the group were amusing, and seeing rick knock merle the fuck out was so satisfying. really interested to see how daryl and merle's reunion tour goes. didn't notice the airport zombie homage, will have to go back and watch that bit again.

however, andrea's speech was about as authentic as a ten-dollar rolex...cringe-worthy, indeed. yet another reason to groan everytime she's onscreen. and rick's hallucinations were getting stale when they were just auditory...like shootem, i hope they drop this bit quickly and not drag it out much longer.

a co-worker who's unfamiliar with the comics was saying at work today that he thinks the whole thing is just in rick's head while he's still in a coma at the hospital or dying on the side of the highway in shane's arms after the shootout. normally i would tell him he's wrong, but with all rick's hallucinations (the phone calls, ghost lori, the shane appearance at woodbury), i could see where someone might interpret it that way.

really hoping next week is a bit better.

[Neil]

He's slipping.
I'll like that expression!

It's nice to know we're not stuck with cliche Hollywood hero characters that are invulnerable... Makes the show more interesting!

- - - Updated - - -


The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure...

It was a little contrived! She spouts some rhetoric and after 2-3 sentences the crowd become all ye-haw... Didn't quite work IMHO.

But an enjoyable episode.

[MinionZombie]

A really small, but cool, detail that I dug in this episode was during the Rick vs Glenn argument - in the background in the woods a single zombie, then two zombies, appear - also, down at the end of the road there's another one shambling about. Straight out of the comics, and an interesting use of them too - they're coming, but they're far enough away that they don't have to panic and run away. Just a little touch - there's walkers in them thar woods. :)

[Neil]

Well, we had flyboy in the last episode, did no one else catch the airport zombie at the hole in Woodbury's fence?

Sort of noticed it... Was it just a coincidence, or a true homage?

[bassman]

Sort of noticed it... Was it just a coincidence, or a true homage?

It seemed intentional. I haven't had a chance to get a good screencap, so this is the best I could find at the moment. Top Right corner.

http://picsee.net/upload/2013-02-11/612e49782c2b.jpeg

[Neil]

^^ I think a red checked shirt would have been mandatory?

http://listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/photo_11366521_40602_4137932_main.jpg

[bassman]

I would have to get a better screencap, but I think he may have had one it's just hard to tell because of the shadows and angle. It may indeed turn out to be a coincidence, but if it is, that's a hell of a coincidence...

[Legion2213]

The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure...

I get the feeling that a lot of Woodburyites have become acustomed to being safe, warm, fed and watered...and have also become dependant on a strong leader, so I agree, Andrea stepping in and basically telling them everything would be fine is all they really needed to calm them...I reckon any one of the Govs goons could have done the same and got the same result instead of acting like dicks and just waving their guns about...and of course, Andrea to them has been seen as part of the governers "inner circle" so even if she hasn't been there long, she may carry some influence.

[Mogidisimo]

A really small, but cool, detail that I dug in this episode was during the Rick vs Glenn argument - in the background in the woods a single zombie, then two zombies, appear - also, down at the end of the road there's another one shambling about. Straight out of the comics, and an interesting use of them too - they're coming, but they're far enough away that they don't have to panic and run away. Just a little touch - there's walkers in them thar woods. :)

I really dug this too, it immediately reminded me of Lucio Fulci's Zombi 2 as well as the more recent The Dead (2010).

[MinionZombie]

Legion - I suppose the thing with those men waving their guns around is that's all they know, that's the limit of their crowd control tactics. They're not thinkers or strategists, they're hired guns who usually get used for rather subversive means. Good point about Andrea being seen to be part of the "inner circle" ... almost like a first lady ... or, well, First Girlfriend/F*ck Buddy/Friend With Benefits ... so yes, the action of the scene makes total sense, but the words in the scene needed more oomph.

[krisvds]

Minion - Very often in this series the problem I find is not in the action as such, which makes perfect sense but with the execution of it. Take Andrea's speech; the writing, her performance, the performance of the extras, the whole staging of that scene I found lacking.
Same with the opening arena fight. Nothing wrong with putting the two brothers against each other, but the scene looked like something out of a very bad, nineties Bloodsport sequel.

What makes less sense is how Andrea behaves these last few episodes. She sees her lover putting Daryl in a one on one fight to the death in an arena, she knows her friends are still alive AND she knows dear Philip held some of them hostage behind her back and all she comes up with is 'don't shut me out'?

Michone's silence is also very annoying. Why doesn't she at least try to explain, partly even, what went down in Woodbury? Her keeping mute to this extent makes little sense?

[Neil]

What makes less sense is how Andrea behaves these last few episodes. She sees her lover putting Daryl in a one on one fight to the death in an arena, she knows her friends are still alive AND she knows dear Philip held some of them hostage behind her back and all she comes up with is 'don't shut me out'?

Michone's silence is also very annoying. Why doesn't she at least try to explain, partly even, what went down in Woodbury? Her keeping mute to this extent makes little sense?

Agreed and agreed!

[MinionZombie]

I'm less bothered by those elements that you seem to be, kris, however I will agree that both of those elements could use work to telegraph them to the audience in a more satisfactory manner.

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Last night I was thinking about something - the walkie talkie - it must be in the bag of guns, right? We saw the bag again in 3x09 as TG was digging through it, so I wonder if Andrea will bring it back to the prison with her, or if it'll end up in Rick's hands again by other means, and then he'll get on the walkie talkie again and contact Morgan - could we see Morgan by the end of the season? Just a thought ... although apparently Mazzara has teased that a major character will show up by the end of the season ... but that could be a number of people, so who knows.

[facestabber]

I'm less bothered by those elements that you seem to be, kris, however I will agree that both of those elements could use work to telegraph them to the audience in a more satisfactory manner.

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Last night I was thinking about something - the walkie talkie - it must be in the bag of guns, right? We saw the bag again in 3x09 as TG was digging through it, so I wonder if Andrea will bring it back to the prison with her, or if it'll end up in Rick's hands again by other means, and then he'll get on the walkie talkie again and contact Morgan - could we see Morgan by the end of the season? Just a thought ... although apparently Mazzara has teased that a major character will show up by the end of the season ... but that could be a number of people, so who knows.

Walkie talkie thought is a very interesting idea for tying Rick back to Morgan. Though I must say jokingly that I carry that exact Motorola and no way would the batteries last that long. Ofcourse in TWD universe I will suspend belief to get Morgan back.

[Andy]

I Seriously doubt we will see morgan this early to be honest.

But i have been wrong before.

[Neil]

I don't want to introduce any spoilers etc... But is this Morgan the guy from the very first episode or so who Rick bumped into, with his dead wife wondering around outside in the street?

[bassman]

I don't want to introduce any spoilers etc... But is this Morgan the guy from the very first episode or so who Rick bumped into, with his dead wife wondering around outside in the street?

Yes, the black man and his son that took care of Rick in the pilot episode. Morgan and Duane Jones.

[babomb]

The thing about Andrea, and I'm not an Andrea fan AT ALL. But one thing to keep in mind regarding her behavior is that her last experiences with the group weren't exactly positive. You have the situation where Maggie chewed her out and banished her from the house because of Beth's little suicide fiasco. Then she had it out with Lori, and then her very last experience was being left behind by Carol. Being left behind wasn't a deliberate act, but Andrea doesn't really understand it that way. She already felt somewhat disenfranchised by the group, being exiled from the house like Shane and all. And then from her point of view she got left behind rather quickly. They kind of quickly gloss it over in the scenes where she's talking to merle about being left for dead by the group, but she probably does harbor some resentments over it.
To us, the viewers, we have the benefit of a birds eye view of the situation. But Andrea herself sees it more from the frogs perspective.
But it is rather absurd that Michonne doesn't speak up about anything. She's not stupid so she knows that there's information that could change her standing with the group. All she really has to do is tell them about her fight with the Gov, and how she and Andrea met.
The way they're writing all this out is creating breaks in the continuity of the story that not only doesn't make sense logically, but it is also creating a false sense of tension that will never be explained because it isn't really there.

[MinionZombie]

Another to bear in mind is that while for us it's been nearly 3 months between 3x08 and 3x09, for the characters in the show it was minutes.

The entire front-half of season two was a mere seven days, and Beth also stated that the baby is "less than a week" old, so it's at most six days between 3x04 to 3x09.

I would like, in the next season perhaps, to have some bigger time jumps. An awful lot happens in a very short space of time ... I would like some little breather montages if you will, seeing more of the mechanics of surviving in this world, as well as little character interaction moments, which show the passage of time - just every now and then - to give a bit more time between these major events. Anyone else feel that way?

[shootemindehead]

TBH, I'd be uncomfortable with both extremes. I didn't like the 8 month gap between S2 and S3 at all, but a day to day record of the group would be exhausting too. It's difficult to know where to draw the line.

[facestabber]

Another to bear in mind is that while for us it's been nearly 3 months between 3x08 and 3x09, for the characters in the show it was minutes.

The entire front-half of season two was a mere seven days, and Beth also stated that the baby is "less than a week" old, so it's at most six days between 3x04 to 3x09.

I would like, in the next season perhaps, to have some bigger time jumps. An awful lot happens in a very short space of time ... I would like some little breather montages if you will, seeing more of the mechanics of surviving in this world, as well as little character interaction moments, which show the passage of time - just every now and then - to give a bit more time between these major events. Anyone else feel that way?

Good points. Reality for Rick and co is that Lori died only a week ago. He is too busy running rescue missions etc. understandable that he is struggling. I don't mind some slower episodes where we see day to day survival. Watching episode 9 as I type I am going to like tyrese

[babomb]

Another to bear in mind is that while for us it's been nearly 3 months between 3x08 and 3x09, for the characters in the show it was minutes.

The entire front-half of season two was a mere seven days, and Beth also stated that the baby is "less than a week" old, so it's at most six days between 3x04 to 3x09.

I would like, in the next season perhaps, to have some bigger time jumps. An awful lot happens in a very short space of time ... I would like some little breather montages if you will, seeing more of the mechanics of surviving in this world, as well as little character interaction moments, which show the passage of time - just every now and then - to give a bit more time between these major events. Anyone else feel that way?
Yes!! I want to see the mechanics of survival in that world alot. I liked ep01 of season 3 the most because it offered small glimpses of it. But now it's just running too fast. There's no downtime.

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EPISODE 3x10 "HOME" SPOILER:
Axel!!! No!!!!
This one eyed f*cking monster has to go!! Now!! I wanna jump in the screen and do it myself...
Awesome episode!!
Glenn's off doing dumb shit and so is Rick. Herschel's holding down the fort. Rick saved in the nick of time by Daryl and Merle. Rick sends Tyreese and his group off over ghost Lori. The group is falling apart at the seams.

[Cykotic]

EPISODE 3x10 "HOME" SPOILER:
what da frak!

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holy shit... this is getting more frakked up... they're using zombies as weapons now? can someone tell me just what in the hell is going on? The Governor just stands there whilst bullets are hitting his pick-up, Rick turns into the Hulk, Merle becomes the good guy, I finally start to like Axel and now he has a bullet in his head (and back, and everywhere else for that matter)...

Now we're frakking talking!!!

[babomb]

EPISODE 3x10 "HOME" SPOILER:
This thing with Glenn and Maggie. C'mon? For the sake of the group, at least pretend to be rational adults.

[krisvds]

***3x10 SPOILERS***

Why, thank you guys for spoiling 'Home' in the thread for the previous episode.

[babomb]

Sorry. I thought I was in the 3x10 thread. It wasn't intentional.

[krisvds]

@ babomb and Cykotic: could you guys put spoiler tags in those posts that give away some major plot points of episode 10?
Or, you know, put them in the appropriate thread.
Thank you.
:p

[MinionZombie]

Just a reminder to everyone - a NEW THREAD is created for EACH EPISODE - and for honest mistakes in posting in the incorrect thread, then let this be a lesson learned. Please make doubly sure you're in the correct thread before you start talking about the episode - especially if it involves significant moments.

Thanks.

[babomb]

I just happened to be in this thread waiting on 3x10 to start. Then after the episode I was just too eager to comment that i totally forgot that I was in the thread for 3x09.
Really sorry everyone!!:(
Won't let it happen again.

[Wyldwraith]

Only one thing really felt comment worthy (sorry for the late arrival),
Trying to compare an abusive romantic/sexual relationship and an abusive/dysfunctional sibling relationship is straight out apples and oranges. The dynamics of what each of both pairs are and perceive themselves to be, or perceive their partner/sibling to be are so different IMO no meaningful comparison can be made.

For example: In a romantic relationship turned abusive (classically the battered woman clinging to an abusive male, but I'm living proof the gender roles can be reversed) the issues of the ABUSED almost ALWAYS explain why they don't simply terminate the relationship and thus the abuse. Conversely, with siblings, even siblings who had no one to look out for them but each other growing up....the issues of the ABUSER must interact with the reasoning of the abused sibling...it isn't as simple as poor self esteem making them feel like they don't deserve any better I mean. That's just one example.

More importantly: Daryl had a very VERY clear picture of Merle's faults even BEFORE his time as Rick's lieutenant built him up to his current healthier state. In that healthier state, I would have expected Daryl to want to know up front if their time apart has had as much a life-altering impact on Merle as it has on him. Seeing Merle's pretty much EXACTLY THE SAME, they provided no good explanation for where Daryl's new self-esteem went...and why it wouldn't stop him from repartnering with a sibling he damned well KNOWS will treat him like dirt at every turn.

One can assume Daryl's going on faith that things will be different this time...but what supports such a belief when Merle is visibly behaving just as he did before when he comes back into contact with Rick & Co....to say nothing of the fact that Daryl doesn't seem to be holding Merle in any way accountable for partnering with cutthroat murderers...who, if the deleted content is to be believed...Daryl suspects were the ones who exterminated the Vatos + their dependents.

However, I'm willing to give this a bit of leash and reserve judgment until I more clearly see how they plan to play Daryl's reactions off on his own with Merle.