Was Randal from Woodbury?

[Andy]

So I don't know if this has been discussed before, it occurred to me today while having a lazy day watching my season 2 boxset.

So my reasoning is, in season 2, Randal tells Shane that his camp is only 5 miles from the farm, he knew Maggie so it's a safe bet he knows the area well.

In season 3, Andrea hands Merlyl a map in Woodbury and says I've marked the farm on this, he looks at it and says, oh yeah that's only about 5 miles from here.

Coincidence? Could season 2 really have happened so close to Woodbury? Imagine if Shane had gone with Randal instead of killing him then appeared in season 3 as the governors right hand man. He would have been a real villain and had a much better reason to hate ricks group. Would also give Andrea a better reason to stay in Woodbury.

[MinionZombie]

An interesting theory - I haven't really thought of that, but hmmm, it could be ... or perhaps not ... or perhaps it was an early incarnation of Woodbury, before they'd secured the town. I don't recall how long they said Woodbury has been around as-is, but I get the impression that during Season 2, Woodbury didn't exist yet, but during the intervening 8 months it was created and became and established community - perhaps set-in-place by a disparate band of settlers.

Indeed, taking cues from The Rise of the Governor book:
By the end of the book they reach Woodbury and the town isn't blocked off yet. Season wise it's just as the cold nights are drawing in - so we're approaching winter - which would put us near/at the end of season two in the TV show time-frame-wise comparatively.

So yeah - Randall (and his dodgy friends) could indeed have been from, say, a rabble of survivors who formed the initial basis of a very early form of Woodbury, or part of the basis for what eventually became Woodbury. I don't think the writers or anyone has specifically addressed these issues - it'd be good if Mazzara or Kirkman or someone could answer that question sometime. :)

[Buzzbomb]

I got the impression Randal's mates in the bar had traveled around a fair bit and were surviving on the road, so I don't think they were from Woodbury.

It also seems a bit strange that Herschel & co. didn't know of the Prison if it is only 5 miles away from the family farm. I mean, if they had known about it, why spend all winter going from house to house?

[Andy]

I got the impression Randal's mates in the bar had traveled around a fair bit and were surviving on the road, so I don't think they were from Woodbury.

It also seems a bit strange that Herschel & co. didn't know of the Prison if it is only 5 miles away from the family farm. I mean, if they had known about it, why spend all winter going from house to house?

Maybe they'd just settled there like MZ said.. also we're never really given a clear idea of how close the prison is, even during season 3.

And at the end of season 2, we see the prison over a river from their sleepover spot on the road so it cant be that far really..

[AcesandEights]

I don't buy it, primarily based on how the guys reacted to Rick & co. And the idea of a farm and shelter from the road being nearby.

Nope, it's just inconsistent writing ( read: different writers) , the lack of a setting bible geared specifically towards the show and lack of consistent editorial/producer oversight.

[bassman]

In Episode 213, wasn't there mention that they had been driving for about an hour before their cars started running low on fuel? I seem to remember some sort mention that they were quite far from Hershel's farm, so I doubt he was from Woodbury.

[Buzzbomb]

And at the end of season 2, we see the prison over a river from their sleepover spot on the road so it cant be that far really..

The farm was over-run during the night, and (I think) it was early morning when they re-grouped on the highway. So either they spent all day driving round in circles, (maybe's they inherited TWD's road system from 'Pleasantville'?).... or the farm is a long way away from the prison/Woodbury.

It also wouldn't make sense to prepare their vehicles for a quick departure from the farm, but forget to fill their tanks, or not refill them when they re-grouped.

[Andy]

Yeah but if the farm is so far away from woodbury then why does merle say its only about 5 miles away while looking at it on a map?

Thats what got me started on this whole train of thought.

Assuming ricks group dont know the area that well, it is entirely possible that the spent ages going around in circles. At the beginning of season 3, its supposed to be months after the season 2 finale and they only just find the prison which was right there not even a mile from the road the stayed on. Its not only plausible but it looks like its written that way as if they did just stay in the area and move in circles.

It would be interesting if we had a flashback showing a very early woodbury with the guys from season 2 in the bar.. cant remember their names now.. and randal shoulder to shoulder with the governor and merle.

[bassman]

The prison technically wasn't that close to the group at the end of Season Two. Kirkman and Co have said that the reveal was only meant to be a teaser for Season Three. It really wasn't that close, it was just a fan service. Not to mention it's not even the same prison....

[sandrock74]

There was also talk from the survivors (right before they found the prison) that they have been playing a bit of "dodge 'em" with a large group of walkers for some time. It sounded like they were at the mercy of wherever the herd decided to go.

[Andy]

The prison technically wasn't that close to the group at the end of Season Two. Kirkman and Co have said that the reveal was only meant to be a teaser for Season Three. It really wasn't that close, it was just a fan service. Not to mention it's not even the same prison....

Bass, im not being funny but fuck what kirkman says. Watch the season 2 final with see with your own eyes, the prison is not even half a mile from where they are camped.

Also, having just watched the latest episode (S03E12), i have to say this theory makes more sense than ever.. they can make it to ricks hometown and back to the prison in a day.. it cant be as far as you guys are claiming.

Like sandrock says, it could be that they have been pinned in the same area by 1 or more herds for months and months.

Plausible?

[bassman]

Like sandrock says, it could be that they have been pinned in the same area by 1 or more herds for months and months.


That was outright stated in episode 301....

[Andy]

Yeah i know that. i meant plausible then that the farm, prison and woodbury are within a few miles (say 5) of each other?

[bassman]

The Prison and Woodbury are, but the farm is a good distance away. They drove a while before they ended up at the campsite at the end of 213.

[MinionZombie]

The Prison and Woodbury are, but the farm is a good distance away. They drove a while before they ended up at the campsite at the end of 213.

A fair point, and IIRC they were running low on fuel (or on fumes in some vehicles) and would have to go hunting for fuel in the morning.

No way is the prison in the final shot of 2x13 'half a mile away', it's definitely more like 2 miles in that particular shot. I haven't personally read them saying that it wasn't supposed to be completely spot-on accurate as to the location, more a way to tease the audience that 'this is where we're going' ... which I could see being the intention with that shot ... hmmm ... it's all debateable really. Randall could just as easily be from an early Woodbury as not...

*ponders*

[babomb]

Remember when Rick kills those 2 guys in the bar in season 2? The guy says that they were living out of their cars, and he really was insistent about being taken in to the farm or finding another place, like Nebraska. That was Randalls group, so if they were from Woodbury they wouldn't be looking for another place to go.


This brings up a point that consistently bothers me.
Where the hell do they get all this gas to keep all these vehicles going at all times?
This is something that I've always wondered about in general, even before TWD was a TV show. How to keep a vehicle on the road during the apocalypse.
We see runs on gas, mile long lines at the pumps and a general fuel shortage during small scale emergencies as it is. During Hurricane Sandy for example. People buy up all the gas for use in generators as well as vehicles. And that doesn't even factor in things like people killing each other for gas, as would likely be the case in the early stages of an apocalypse. Or accidents where gas stations get blown to bits like in Dawn04.

Then there are other factors, like the short amount of time it takes for regular gas to destabilize while in storage. So they can't just have a bunch of gas cans lying around the prison. The Woodbury group also has vehicles and likely generators.
So where could all this fuel be coming from?
I realize that it's one of those "suspension of disbelief" things. But it really does seem like a much more pertinent thing to address than most other issues like that. They're putting focus on foraging for weapons and ammo. Gas is equally important IMO since they are always driving around.

The reality of it would be that any vehicles still in regular use 1 year or more into the apocalypse would most likely be Diesel. Diesel fuel will be easier to come by because most people will be foraging for regular gas. Diesel for the most part gives better mileage depending on the vehicle. It also offers alternatives like white gas to be used in it's place. And you can also easily create bio-diesel from something as crude as vegetable oil.

I'm not saying they should show them creating gas or always foraging for it.
But it does deserve at least a nod to it as a logistical concern. Like using vehicles sparingly, maybe running out of gas from time to time.

[Legion2213]

Remember when Rick kills those 2 guys in the bar in season 2? The guy says that they were living out of their cars, and he really was insistent about being taken in to the farm or finding another place, like Nebraska. That was Randalls group, so if they were from Woodbury they wouldn't be looking for another place to go.


This brings up a point that consistently bothers me.
Where the hell do they get all this gas to keep all these vehicles going at all times?
This is something that I've always wondered about in general, even before TWD was a TV show. How to keep a vehicle on the road during the apocalypse.
We see runs on gas, mile long lines at the pumps and a general fuel shortage during small scale emergencies as it is. During Hurricane Sandy for example. People buy up all the gas for use in generators as well as vehicles. And that doesn't even factor in things like people killing each other for gas, as would likely be the case in the early stages of an apocalypse. Or accidents where gas stations get blown to bits like in Dawn04.

Then there are other factors, like the short amount of time it takes for regular gas to destabilize while in storage. So they can't just have a bunch of gas cans lying around the prison. The Woodbury group also has vehicles and likely generators.
So where could all this fuel be coming from?
I realize that it's one of those "suspension of disbelief" things. But it really does seem like a much more pertinent thing to address than most other issues like that. They're putting focus on foraging for weapons and ammo. Gas is equally important IMO since they are always driving around.

The reality of it would be that any vehicles still in regular use 1 year or more into the apocalypse would most likely be Diesel. Diesel fuel will be easier to come by because most people will be foraging for regular gas. Diesel for the most part gives better mileage depending on the vehicle. It also offers alternatives like white gas to be used in it's place. And you can also easily create bio-diesel from something as crude as vegetable oil.

I'm not saying they should show them creating gas or always foraging for it.
But it does deserve at least a nod to it as a logistical concern. Like using vehicles sparingly, maybe running out of gas from time to time.

Don't most farms have their own diesel suplies? Just a thought.

Oh, and you are of course perfectly entitled to point this out, this seems to happen in most PA media, just one of those things...maybe cars have become so ingrained on the human psyche that writers simply cannot imagine a world without them...even a PA world.

[babomb]

Don't most farms have their own diesel suplies? Just a thought.

Oh, and you are of course perfectly entitled to point this out, this seems to happen in most PA media, just one of those things...maybe cars have become so ingrained on the human psyche that writers simply cannot imagine a world without them...even a PA world. It's kinda strange isn't it? Humans dependence on things that aren't naturally produced.
It can't last.

[Ragnarr]

Kinda makes you think in what direction things would have gone had Rick & company stumbled on Woodbury first instead of the prison. Hmm...

[Andy]

Kinda makes you think in what direction things would have gone had Rick & company stumbled on Woodbury first instead of the prison. Hmm...

I Still think it would have made amazing TV if at the end of season 2, instead of killing randal, Shane left with him and ended up in woodbury. Imagine how much more terrifying the governor would be with shane and randal at his side, both with REAL grudges against the prison group, aswell as merle!

Obviously then shane would have had to die in season 3 but still, im surprised nobody else thinks this would be an amazing twist.

[MinionZombie]

I Still think it would have made amazing TV if at the end of season 2, instead of killing randal, Shane left with him and ended up in woodbury. Imagine how much more terrifying the governor would be with shane and randal at his side, both with REAL grudges against the prison group, aswell as merle!

Obviously then shane would have had to die in season 3 but still, im surprised nobody else thinks this would be an amazing twist.

I'm glad it went how it went in the TV show - it was the natural time for it to happen - however I would like to see 'alternative time line events' in the form of a comic or something. That would be a pretty cool idea actually, a book of "what if" alternative storylines that could be told over the equivalent of one or two comic books - one of which could be as you say above.

You could have a whole range of possibilities - I think that'd make a really cool graphic novel tie-in. Pay attention, AMC, nevermind rush-job videogames - this is a cool idea for a bit of tie-in merchandise. :cool: