TWD 3x12 "Clear" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

Keep discussion of 3x12 "Clear" within this thread only.

Don't talk about the episode in the shoutbox.

Comic book spoilers must be put into spoiler tags (not everyone has read the comics). If you don't know how to use spoiler tags, go to the HPOTD FAQ and look up the section on 'BB Codes'.

ENJOY! :thumbsup:


Realizing they are heavily outgunned against the Governor’s forces, Rick leads an expedition to get more weapons.

Directed by Tricia Brock, Written by Scott M. Gimple.

Wanna see a bunch of preview images and videos? Wander over here - http://dailydead.com/the-walking-dead-21-photos-from-episode-312/

[kidgloves]

Special episode this week ;)
Andy Lincolns favourite of the series. I'm assuming thats from an acting POV seeing as he never watches himself onscreen.

[AnxietyDilemma]

Special episode this week ;)
Andy Lincolns favourite of the series. I'm assuming thats from an acting POV seeing as he never watches himself onscreen.

He said that he can't wait to see how people react to what happens. Should be eventful.

[MagicMoonMonkey]

I can not wait. Roll on tomorrow evening after work.
Micro Chips, Morrisons own brand horsemeat Madras, a glass of Irn Bru and TWD. Can Monday's be any better???
Not too many spoilers guys... I always have a sneaky peak on a Monday afternoon to gauge your opinion.

PS... My my... I will be hitting 100 posts in the next few years...

C'mon the Hoops.
HH

[facestabber]

Whoa Rick. Hint.....time to start listening to Michonne. Another half hour to go but I like Michonne's contributions and acting much more than in the past

[aceofspades]

Whoa Rick. Hint.....time to start listening to Michonne. Another half hour to go but I like Michonne's contributions and acting much more than in the past

I agree, because she was starting to annoy me. I was happy to see her help the boy. She seems to be easing up a bit.

[AcesandEights]

Probably the strongest episode since the season break! Very happy with the isolation of the characters involved and lack of ping-ponging between different groups, it really helped punch up the mood and made you focus on the plight of the characters involved.

Also, totally agree with Facestabber on Michonne getting some nice attention from the writers this episode.

[bassman]

Also, totally agree with Facestabber on Michonne getting some nice attention from the writers this episode.

This episode was written by Scott Gimple, who is the showrunner for Season Four. Good sign?...

[AcesandEights]

This episode was written by Scott Gimple, who is the showrunner for Season Four. Good sign?...

I think so.

Did you like it, Bass?

[bassman]

Yeah, it was a good episode. The surprise of it all had been spoiled long ago, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Hopefully Morgan returns again....

[facestabber]

This episode was written by Scott Gimple, who is the showrunner for Season Four. Good sign?...

I think it is a good sign. This was one of the best episodes this season as mentioned above. The isolation and honestly I was so happy not to see the prison and Woodbury. The new settings and ofcourse the reveal of Morgan, a once great man that has been broken by this world. Very sad to see Morgan left in that state but it delivers a powerful message. Morgan's hideout was masterfully done and reminiscent of the Shining. And as a gun lover I must admit bliss when I saw his stash. Bring it on gov cause we got heavy hitting guns and Hand grenades.

And the hitchhiker. After all this group has been through I understand why. In my mind I would be thinking ambush. Stop to help and your gonna get hit. I have to digest this episode longer but so many things I am happy about yet I can't quite put it into words.

[aceofspades]

Yeah, the Hitchhiker being left behind was a slight jolt for me. Seems as if they have decided not to help anyone unless they know them. The guy did seem sincere though.

[Moon Knight]

This episode was great. The hitchhiker bookend was humorous in a very dark way. I felt ashamed to laugh. It was indeed sad to see Morgan in that state but as stated the message was clear.

[sandrock74]

The guy did seem sincere though.

I think he was a sincere individual, as he was a bloody smear later on. I felt bad for the guy.

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, that shit about the hitchhiker was a bit harsh....guess that's the way things would be though.

and yes, michonne is finally coming around. glad to see an expression on her face other than that sourpuss scowl.

morgan's return was kinda neat, but i was really hoping he'd leave with rick and them...and i kinda was holding out hope that he'd kept duane around like the governor did with penny....

as for the episode as a whole, i thought it was very good. it was nice to focus on just one plot, and the writing and pacing were handled very well, which i think is a good sign of things to come if gimple is the show-runner for season 4.

[Staredge]

Michonne made a funny!!!!!!!! lol



Loved it. Great episode. Hate to see Morgan like that........can't remember him in the comic right offhand. sure hoped he would come around. Maybe later in the season???

[Moon Knight]

i kinda was holding out hope that he'd kept duane around like the governor did with penny....



Me too.

[AnxietyDilemma]

Yeah, the Hitchhiker being left behind was a slight jolt for me. Seems as if they have decided not to help anyone unless they know them. The guy did seem sincere though.

That's what it has come to. Early in the series survivors banded together, but now with supplies and shelter being limited, they have to fight for what they have, and for the safety of their group, and outsiders are a threat. Last season they would've went out of their way to help him out.

It was nice that we were able to get to the meat of the issue in this episode, and even dwell on it a bit rather than having it build up only to transition to Woodbury and the prison.

[aceofspades]

I think he was a sincere individual, as he was a bloody smear later on. I felt bad for the guy.

as dark as my humor is on this one...I couldn't help to be reminded of the Creepshow scene...."thanks for the ride Lady!"

- - - Updated - - -

also....I'm sure we all saw this. Michonne basically teleported twice in this episode, lol

[rgc2005]

also....I'm sure we all saw this. Michonne basically teleported twice in this episode, lol

There were some really bad edits which really broke the flow of the show for me. The most noticeable was when Carl and Michonne jumped 20-30 feet from the front of the restaurant after she stopped him going back inside.
Otherwise this was the best dramatic episode in a very long time.

Somethings folks might not have noticed yet:
-Rick teaching Carl field craft and troubleshooting on the road. Seeing Morgan's tiger traps, color coded escape routes and overhead pulley systems had to have given them some great ideas for defending the prison.
-Rick and the group now have an emergency fall back location that is fully stocked, surrounded by a life sized mousetrap board game and maintained by a very crazy but now familiar zombie-killing machine. That is why Rick did not take but a small portion of Morgan's arsenal.
-The Hitch hiker's backpack, thinking bug out bag...
-A new crossbow with real bolts for Darryl.

[Legion2213]

One of the best episodes yet IMHO, the foraging is what zombiegeddon is all about for me (thanks Dawn of the Dead!) :D

Really felt bad for Morgan and the hitch-hiker, the world has become a very cold and grinding place for the survivors, and it actually makes the governors attitudes and actions look "reasonably normal" for the new world that the survivors inhabit.

Some others have said Michone is becoming a bit more likeable, I agree, she's probably decided that Ricks group is one of the least disfunctional she's seen on her travels and has decided that she's looking to hang on in there after overhearing Rick and Carls little talk...which says a lot for the above comments about just how low humainty has sunk during this disaster.

Once again, enjoyed the Hell out of tonights feast of zombie goodness!

[MinionZombie]

What a fan-feckin-tastic episode!!!

Best one of the back-eight so far, and definitely one of the very best of the season - indeed, one of the very best episode out of them all. Scott M. Gimple has had a real triumph with this episode - I'm not sure if anyone else felt this way, but it kind of felt a bit more 'Darabonty' if that makes sense? High drama, a few characters, concise storytelling in an enclosed location, total focus, and lots of heart. We've had that from the other episodes too, but in varying degrees - this episode felt the most like the very first episode in a long old time (that's not to say I've been let down by any of the other episodes though, just to be clear, but they all provide different tones).



Micro Chips, Morrisons own brand horsemeat Madras, a glass of Irn Bru and TWD. Can Monday's be any better???
Not too many spoilers guys... I always have a sneaky peak on a Monday afternoon to gauge your opinion.

Each individual discussion thread is a full-on spoiler fest for each individual episode (it's why we have one thread for each episode), so I'd recommend waiting to join in the discussion until after you've watched the episode. We tend to dive straight in. The spoilers don't cross-threads though, we like to keep them contained and separated. :D

Micro chips? Not for me. :lol: @ "horsemeat Madras" ... but hell yes to Irn Bru & TWD combo. :D


I like Michonne's contributions and acting much more than in the past

I always had faith they were building up to this. Daryl was initially hated as a dumb redneck stereotype, and he very quickly became adored - it's taken a touch longer with Michonne, although the grievances of others around here were never really matched in my view of her, I was fine with the slow-build to her warming up to the character we all know and love. This episode was definitely a bit door kick moment for Michonne - this is who we know, this is who we want. A fantastic episode for Michonne and well done to Danai Gurira for her performance in this episode. A nice balance of seriousness, likeability, and arse kicking.


Probably the strongest episode since the season break! Very happy with the isolation of the characters involved and lack of ping-ponging between different groups, it really helped punch up the mood and made you focus on the plight of the characters involved.

Also, totally agree with Facestabber on Michonne getting some nice attention from the writers this episode.


It was nice that we were able to get to the meat of the issue in this episode, and even dwell on it a bit rather than having it build up only to transition to Woodbury and the prison.

Totally agreed. The limited cast of characters and the strong focus on them was exactly what the doctor ordered. Usually they're not too bad with skipping back and forth, but 3x04 was a bit irksome in that regard - we were getting some OMFG moments and then we were skipping back to Woodbury where everything was roses and kittens. It felt off in a couple of moments in 3x04 skipping away to Woodbury like that. Here though, yes, the focus on these four people was tip-top. Superb writing too.


This episode was written by Scott Gimple, who is the showrunner for Season Four. Good sign?...

A very good sign, I'd say. He's done a grand job with this episode.


Yeah, it was a good episode. The surprise of it all had been spoiled long ago, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Hopefully Morgan returns again....

I hope so too. I imagine he's got to get his head straight a bit. Maybe he'll come and find the prison, or someone will bring him back, or yeah, maybe they fall back there ... we'll see, I guess.


Yeah, the Hitchhiker being left behind was a slight jolt for me. Seems as if they have decided not to help anyone unless they know them. The guy did seem sincere though.

A really stark reminder of how much humanity they've lost. They've got a mission to finish and they can't be distracted, but also their trust of outsiders is at an all-time-low ... on the other hand on the way back it showed them that they're losing that humanity. The regret was writ-large on Rick's face, but the practical scooping up of his back pack was a nice touch too - it would indeed be foolish to leave that behind - but it was interesting that Carl was less harsh in his view. He didn't say anything, I suppose he'd see the practicalities of the situation, but he recognised that this was a messed up thing to do regardless. I totally felt sorry for that guy ... but dude, don't scream out "don't leave!" from really far away. :lol:


morgan's return was kinda neat, but i was really hoping he'd leave with rick and them...and i kinda was holding out hope that he'd kept duane around like the governor did with penny....

I suppose they didn't because it'd be too similar, unless Duane is lurking around in a back room somewhere.

Comic Spoiler:
In 1x01 Morgan had trouble shooting his undead wife, but in the comic he had trouble shooting his undead son, so perhaps they just left it at Duane not being in it at all to not repeat themselves ... perhaps the actor had a massive growth spurt too, like Walt on Lost?


A new crossbow with real bolts for Darryl.

I definitely want to see Daryl sporting two crossbows. :D

...

Finally, as per usual, memes for this episode (it was a bumper crop this week):
http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?20029-Get-out-of-here-Carl!!!!-The-TWD-memes-lols-thread&p=295138#post295138

[MagicMoonMonkey]

That was fantastic! I had hoped Morgan would join the group. I really like this guy as an all round actor. He was excellent in Jericho also.
Hopefully we will see him again in a more sustained role.
The torn up body of the hitchhiker at the end was a touch of dark genius. Poor guy. I would say though that it was a bit contrived as he had survived on the road for such a long time and is ultimately done in a completely 'NOOB' manner. Still, it served its purpose and made me pause to see what kind of mess he was in. It looked a sore one.
I can not believe there is only 4 episodes to go. Then we will be wishing our lives away until October!.
Does anyone know if we will be treated to a 16 episode run in Season 4? I still pray to which ever god is prepared to listen to my pish that Rick and the group stumble right in to the original screenplay for Day of the Dead! Make it happen Kirkman, You know you want to.

[krisvds]

Not surprised at all that the one episode that steers away from the core prison/woodbury storyline turns out to be the best of the season so far, and possibly one of the best ever ...
That in itself is rather sad given how awesome that storyline was in the comics. In AMC's version it's just a cluttered, often badly written, and at times very sadly staged mess.

But not this episode! The humanity the characters, their emotions, the acting, directing,... for once all top notch. Or at least as good as televised drama gets. In keeping it simple and focussing on a few well fleshed out characters lies the true strength of this series.

One can only hope next week will be just as good when we get Andrea and Philip (sigh) back.

[AcesandEights]

One can only hope next week will be just as good when we get Andrea and Philip (sigh) back.

For some reason reading this put me in mind of the two of them together on a cheesy romance novel cover. :lol:

[MinionZombie]

Gimple did a top job writing this episode, but we should also give cred to Tricia Brock (the director) who's new to the series. According to the making of featurette online she has a history of theatre work, so putting her on this episode makes a lot of sense - confined spaces, few characters - it lets her get into the juice of the characters.

I'm surprised nobody here has gone off on some over-cooked tirade against Carl going to find the last picture of his family ... or maybe everyone liked that as much as I did. There was a lot of interesting background stuff for Carl in this one - he's got a new baby sister and he wants her to know what her mother looked like, but he also sees that their family home has been burned out so there's no going back there (clearly part of him wanting to come was to see if he could see his old home again). I think Carl was recognising at various times in this episode just how much humanity they've lost/are losing, and he's yearning for the old days here - days from not even a year ago yet - and I think it was beautifully played by Riggs in 3x12.

I know I'd want to return home when the chance presents itself.

I also dug Michonne taking that weird papier mache type cat thing - a glimpse into a softer side to this katana-wielding survivor (it's almost weird to think that she had a boyfriend at one point). Big props to Lennie James (Morgan) too - he rocked 1x01 with a powerful performance, and again here he was bringing it full-on. A very emotional performance that managed to be far enough out there without going into silly wide-eyed OTT territory - like in 1x01, the performance felt natural and honest and true. Top stuff.

Regarding the preview for next week's episode (tagged for Neil's benefit as that loon doesn't watch the end of episode teasers :D):
I'm really looking forward to seeing this pow-wow between Rick and The Governor on seemingly neutral ground. I have a feeling it's going to be a tense-as-hell episode! This must play into the subplot of Andrea wanting to broker peace rather than allow war - although not for the benefit of Phillip, as Laurie Holden was stating quite clearly that Andrea isn't under any illusions regarding him anymore - as seen on the Paleyfest 2013 panel.

[bassman]

Someone just brought this up on another forum.... Did anybody catch a Night reference during Morgan's story of Duane's death? He told Duane(Jones) to stay upstairs while he went down to the basement. Then Duane died because he was upstairs? A very minor reference, if at all, but I got a smirk out of it.

[MinionZombie]

Someone just brought this up on another forum.... Did anybody catch a Night reference during Morgan's story of Duane's death? He told Duane(Jones) to stay upstairs while he went down to the basement. Then Duane died because he was upstairs? A very minor reference, if at all, but I got a smirk out of it.

Good catch! :)

I didn't notice it myself (was too consumed by the tragic irony of the father/son/zombie-mother upstairs/downstairs stuff).

[shootemindehead]

Best Episode of Season 3.

Pity Morgan didn't head to the prison, but there's still time.

On Morgan, he's a well acted character and would add an extra "nice guy" dynamic to Team Prison (Sorry for nicking that Min). He's a genuine guy and amid the samurai swords and crossbow heroes, would help to make the group a bit more likeable.

[Neil]

I really liked that episode! But I did see the twist at the end coming... But not them waste-not-want-notting his bag!

[JonOfTheShred]

Loved this episode as well. One of the best of the series. Season 3 has been largely consistent, looking forward to seeing it conclude and also to seeing how Season 4 plays out more with each episode.

Great to see....
- Carl and Michonne bonding. Reminds me of a certain short-lived arc in the comic.
- Michonne the comedian.
- Morgan showing those acting chops again.
- The parallels between Rick and Morgan.
- Atmospheric set pieces are really needed in a show like this. It takes a lot of focus back on the bigger picture, as opposed to the Woodbury / Prison feud, which grows stale when focused on for too long. This episode should have happened before Axel bit the dust, IMO. Would have given that scene more potency if an episode like this had given us all a false sense of security.

The bad...
- Got spoiled about Morgans appearance on Facebook a few hours before it happened. But if that hadn't happened, the show would've spoiled it in "Previously on AMCs the Walking Dead"

Scott Gimple....he seems all right. Has written some of the best episodes in the series.

[facestabber]

To Minionzombie;
I fully understood Carl wanting to go back for the picture. I think most people probably do. I would add that Carl is way overconfident in his abilities. The little shit should have been humbled for good when he indirectly caused DAle's death. But he prances around town like his Beretta makes him king. Tries to ditch Michonne in a very contrived and horribly written manor(did he really think shed be tied up with one walker long enough for his theft). Then he was going to open the door and take on the restaurant horde head on when much smarter ways would work safer. I know Carl is trying be he really needs an ass kicking from someone.

On another topic. Can someone explain if I missed something regarding King co sheriff gun locker. Rick did imply that is where he worked yet that set was completely different than the locker he took Morgan to in episode 1 correct. So was this budget shortcomings? And secondly if his PD was withing relative driving distance of prison , how as a DEPUTY, was he unaware of a prison. I understand we don't know how long they drove for.

[MinionZombie]

Jon - ah but if this episode was before The Governor's little swipe at the group then the desperate run for guns would lack a bit of importance, I feel. It's also about the immediacy of the retaliation by The Governor - they haven't had a chance to regroup and think things through yet.

Your point about atmosphere reminded me of how TWD can work wonders with mere suggestion, or sights that are after-the-fact. The sign for "Erin" and then seeing the wreck with walkers, one of which has an "Erin" bracelet on ... then Morgan's pad - there's a thousand words spoken with mere sights. Rat traps, trip wires, pungi sticks, the burned body pile, etc etc etc ... this idea of seeing a place long after something has happened, but we get all the story we need (and more) from simply seeing it (e.g. Rick's exit from the hospital in 1x01 says an awful lot in a few seconds). I love it when TWD does that sort of thing, and I also like seeing other survivors along the way here and there (the back packer here, the family a couple of episodes ago) as it shows that this world is populated by more than just two established groups.

Face - generally thinking about the prison, I'd imagine it wouldn't necessarily be on anyone's mind if they did know about the prison. You've got so much going on in your head, and you wouldn't initially think of a prison as a good place to hold up - you'd be thinking that it's full of dangerous people, or at the very least totally over-run. Of course, after months of living on the road trying to maintain an existence in places that are familiar, the group are driven to desperation and now a prison seems like a great idea.

On the PD's gun locker - yeah, I imagine that they couldn't get the same location again, or it would have involved a costly production move, and being only a small part of the episode (rather than book-ended by the shower scene and then going their separate ways outside when Leon Bassett turns up), it'd make more sense to knock-up a sort-of-look-alike in the studio where they shoot the prison interiors (which is where I'm assuming they did that scene).

[bassman]

The different police department interior is also the same reason Rick's house had "burned out" on Morgan's map. Where they filmed "King County" for S3 is nowhere near where they filmed it for S1. Rick's house and much of "King County" was filmed in Atlanta, while this episode was filmed about 1.5 hours south of the city near the Studio(Prison) and Senoia(Woodbury). Saying the house burned was just a quick way to avoid that problem, I would say.

As for the driving distance, I would say their entire trip took a whole day. That would mean it was plenty far enough away from the group's current location.

[MinionZombie]

The different police department interior is also the same reason Rick's house had "burned out" on Morgan's map. Where they filmed "King County" for S3 is nowhere near where they filmed it for S1. Rick's house and much of "King County" was filmed in Atlanta, while this episode was filmed about 1.5 hours south of the city near the Studio(Prison) and Senoia(Woodbury). Saying the house burned was just a quick way to avoid that problem, I would say.

As for the driving distance, I would say their entire trip took a whole day. That would mean it was plenty far enough away from the group's current location.

Would the prison be in another county? I'm not sure how it works over there with that sort of thing and police department jurisdiction etc - i.e. perhaps Rick's department didn't have that prison under their jurisdiction, so even if they were aware of it, it wouldn't be of that much concern to them ... just a random thought in my head.

I'd also say though, that seeing the Grimes family home "burned out" on the map is a nice narrative touch, particularly for Carl, and it rolls in with the last remaining picture in that restaurant/bar ... clearly it originally sprung out of the practicalities of shooting in a different area, but they were able to make it work very nicely for the story and the characters. :)

[Ragnarr]

That's what it has come to. Early in the series survivors banded together, but now with supplies and shelter being limited, they have to fight for what they have, and for the safety of their group, and outsiders are a threat. Last season they would've went out of their way to help him out.

It was nice that we were able to get to the meat of the issue in this episode, and even dwell on it a bit rather than having it build up only to transition to Woodbury and the prison.

That was a head scratcher for me. At first I thought "hey, stop the car and save the dude". Then I thought that the hitchhiker could have been a clever scout working for the governor. Also thought that picking up any stranger in TWD's setting would be a risk. Loners could easily be psychotic nutjobs.

[facestabber]

Would the prison be in another county? I'm not sure how it works over there with that sort of thing and police department jurisdiction etc - i.e. perhaps Rick's department didn't have that prison under their jurisdiction, so even if they were aware of it, it wouldn't be of that much concern to them ... just a random thought in my head.

I'd also say though, that seeing the Grimes family home "burned out" on the map is a nice narrative touch, particularly for Carl, and it rolls in with the last remaining picture in that restaurant/bar ... clearly it originally sprung out of the practicalities of shooting in a different area, but they were able to make it work very nicely for the story and the characters. :)

Well a prison is different than a jail or county jail specifically. As Rick would be very familiar with a county jail. From personal experience and assuming Rick has been a deputy for a long time, it would be reasonable to know prison locations. Regardless it was a minor nitpick of mine.

And I agree about Morgan's drawings and ricks house burned out. That satisfied me and to me explains why they would not go to visit as I'm sure they prefer the memory of an intact home. I wouldn't mind seeing them grab a change of clothes though. Hahaha

[JonOfTheShred]

Jon - ah but if this episode was before The Governor's little swipe at the group then the desperate run for guns would lack a bit of importance, I feel. It's also about the immediacy of the retaliation by The Governor - they haven't had a chance to regroup and think things through yet.

Your point about atmosphere reminded me of how TWD can work wonders with mere suggestion, or sights that are after-the-fact. The sign for "Erin" and then seeing the wreck with walkers, one of which has an "Erin" bracelet on ... then Morgan's pad - there's a thousand words spoken with mere sights. Rat traps, trip wires, pungi sticks, the burned body pile, etc etc etc ... this idea of seeing a place long after something has happened, but we get all the story we need (and more) from simply seeing it (e.g. Rick's exit from the hospital in 1x01 says an awful lot in a few seconds). I love it when TWD does that sort of thing, and I also like seeing other survivors along the way here and there (the back packer here, the family a couple of episodes ago) as it shows that this world is populated by more than just two established groups.


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mah-nigga.jpg

That's what I'm talking about - that kind of stuff really makes an episode stand out for me. I thought the Daryl / Merle rescue mission you mentioned was crucial for the end of the episode to have played out the way it did, and was one of the best sequences on the show as of late. (Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 had a similar story-telling format - art direction and set pieces literally provide endless narrative. Really enriches the story.) The atmosphere of the prison and Woodbury has grown stale - its great to get traveling in episodes so we can get those atmospheric moments.

[rightwing401]

I totally felt sorry for that guy ... but dude, don't scream out "don't leave!" from really far away.

I agree, it felt really messed up to me to see them just so casually drive by the guy as he's litterally begging them to stop for him. Granted, the world has changed and they can barely afford the luxury of giving a complete stranger the benefit of the doubt. But still, it really tugs on your humanity to see them do something like that. While I was screaming myself at the tv for the dude to stop yelling after them, I can see now why the hitchhiker would do that.

Looking at all the crap he was carrying, it's probably a good bet that the dude had been on his own for weeks/months. I can only imangine how nightmarish of an existance that would be. Keeping your wits about you and your eyes glued to ever little bit of movement during the day-while practically crapping your pants every night at the slightest noise that happens near you. After likely going through all of that, I totally get now why even I would have a momentary lapse in judgement if I saw a car full of people drive past after all of that and scream after them to not leave me.

Still, what I found hard to believe was that they found his bag and bloody remains without a single dropped walker anywere nearby. Maybe that's just me being extremely focused on the little details, but I highly doubt anyone who was surviving on the road, on foot no less, and had made it that long into the zombie apocolypse wouldn't have had at least one weapon on him and not know how to split a few walker skulls.

Great job for the show for making a lot of drama out of less than two mintues air time for a situation.

[Zombie Snack]

maybe he only had 1 round left in his gun and used it on himself when confronted by that pesky hoard wandering around.

[rgc2005]

Rick was a Deputy Sheriff in a central Kentucky town. The prison is in west Georgia. They are at least an 8 hour drive one way on a good day. In a post-Walker world that trip over the mountains in Tennessee could take at least a week.

[Neil]

Still, what I found hard to believe was that they found his bag and bloody remains without a single dropped walker anywere nearby. Maybe that's just me being extremely focused on the little details, but I highly doubt anyone who was surviving on the road, on foot no less, and had made it that long into the zombie apocolypse wouldn't have had at least one weapon on him and not know how to split a few walker skulls.

Great job for the show for making a lot of drama out of less than two mintues air time for a situation.

I suppose him being killed happened several hours before? So they wouldn't hang around?

[bassman]

Rick was a Deputy Sheriff in a central Kentucky town. The prison is in west Georgia. They are at least an 8 hour drive one way on a good day. In a post-Walker world that trip over the mountains in Tennessee could take at least a week.

He's from Kentucky in the Comic, but "King County", Georgia in the show.

[facestabber]

Rewatching episode I just noticed Morgan had an M4 with M203 grenade launcher mounted. Good lord would that be a horrible surprise for the governor. I hope our group picked that one up

[Wyldwraith]

Loved this episode,
Couple things bothered me though.
1) Carl and Michonne were like 120 yards from a field of Walker catch-traps. Why not just open the door and lure them out and into the field of spike-traps instead of a risky Shane & Otis-style distract & dash (for the medical supplies)...that ended up working about as well as it did for Shane & Otis? Sure, not all the Walkers would have exited, but what remnant stayed inside could be easily dispatched. It's a minor thing I know...but with such a uniquely well-suited resource for catching and immobilizing zombies a hop, skip and jump away it seemed a shame not to utilize it. Though I DID dig Michonne's lightning-fast save when the behind the bar sleeper-Walker grabbed Carl.

2) Michonne knows the Governor seized an ENTIRE MILITARY CONVOY'S supply of weaponry, vehicles and equipment. Plus Woodbury has #'s on their side. I understand only taking a minority % of weapons/ammo from Morgan's stash. But only one medium-sized bag? This was a by-fiat call meant to prevent the Woodbury/Prison clash from being between sides that are equal in any respect. They want to keep Rick & Co. the heavy logistical underdogs. That one bag is partially ammo-filled as well, so there can't be more than 6-8 guns MAXIMUM in there. Even if I'm a bit off on the exact quantity, given the dire straits they're in, and given the reality that ONE GUY JUST DOESNT NEED DOZENS OF GUNS, I would've liked to see Rick & Co. take at least 2x what they did. Enough to meet their immediate needs is all I'm saying. Plus, again Morgan's one damaged man. Leaving that arsenal 95% intact leaves it vulnerable to shady groups like the Governor's. I understand why they had Rick make that call, but it's still kind of frustrating.

Still, the best episode of this season's latter half by far. I agree it bodes well for S4 if the new Showrunner for S4 made this episode. Just my opinion though.

[AcesandEights]

ONE GUY JUST DOESNT NEED DOZENS OF GUNS, I would've liked to see Rick & Co. take at least 2x what they did. Enough to meet their immediate needs is all I'm saying. Plus, again Morgan's one damaged man. Leaving that arsenal 95% intact leaves it vulnerable to shady groups like the Governor's. I understand why they had Rick make that call, but it's still kind of frustrating.

I completely agree and hope there's at least a few unconventional items in that bag as well (there were, after all, grenades to spare). That said, I suspect that is a bag of holding with some serious Hammer Space (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HammerSpace) inside.

[MinionZombie]

It wasn't one medium sized bag - it was several bags, we just didn't see each individual bag being hauled into the back of the car. We see at least four hefty bag loads on-screen in particular, but there's also a boot-load of other stuff. It'd be a boring waste of time to see them pick up every single item that they're going to take ... there's more important stuff to be showing, not some mechanical point-to-point operational stuff. They needed weapons, they got weapons, that's what you need to see.

[niiru]

I'd also say though, that seeing the Grimes family home "burned out" on the map is a nice narrative touch, particularly for Carl, and it rolls in with the last remaining picture in that restaurant/bar ... clearly it originally sprung out of the practicalities of shooting in a different area, but they were able to make it work very nicely for the story and the characters. :)

You haven't watched S1 in a while, huh? Remember the first Morgan episode? There were no photos in the house. The ones on the wall were missing, as were the photo albums. Rick was emphatic that meant his wife survived long enough to get out. What happened to those photos? Are we to assume they were left with Hershel's farm? Carl should know this, as presumably he helped his mom pack on their way out. I guess I can assume he knew of a photo or two left on the fridge or something.... but the "last one" thing wouldn't make sense unless the albums were on the motor home.

So yes, nice narrative touch to get around the lack of a set, but the entire subplot has a lot of issues. (Not to say I didn't love it. The dead are walking, I'll ignore some loose strings on a freakin' photo album.

[facestabber]

It wasn't one medium sized bag - it was several bags, we just didn't see each individual bag being hauled into the back of the car. We see at least four hefty bag loads on-screen in particular, but there's also a boot-load of other stuff. It'd be a boring waste of time to see them pick up every single item that they're going to take ... there's more important stuff to be showing, not some mechanical point-to-point operational stuff. They needed weapons, they got weapons, that's what you need to see.

"Boring waste of time"???? Have you seen Commando with Armold? The item grabbing in the surplus store is borderline euphoric for us gun lovers. Hahahaha.

Reality is they have at least 3 AR's, one AK and one .308 sniper rifle at the prison. So ammo and magazines would be a huge boost. Grenades would be great booby traps so I'm hoping they grabbed all of them. They needed more long assault rifles. And for myself I could not resist the two MP5k's because even though the world is over I could finally say I owned an MP5;)

[Andy]

"Boring waste of time"???? Have you seen Commando with Armold? The item grabbing in the surplus store is borderline euphoric for us gun lovers. Hahahaha.

Reality is they have at least 3 AR's, one AK and one .308 sniper rifle at the prison. So ammo and magazines would be a huge boost. Grenades would be great booby traps so I'm hoping they grabbed all of them. They needed more long assault rifles. And for myself I could not resist the two MP5k's because even though the world is over I could finally say I owned an MP5;)

Sorry to break this to you but as a gunnut, i think you make a very slim minority of the overall audience.

Im totally with MZ.

[facestabber]

Sorry to break this to you but as a gunnut, i think you make a very slim minority of the overall audience.

Im totally with MZ.

I completely agree and understand this. For the record I respect and enjoy guns but a gunnut I am far from. Only purchased two my entire life, the rest were issued to me.

[rongravy]

It wasn't one medium sized bag - it was several bags, we just didn't see each individual bag being hauled into the back of the car. We see at least four hefty bag loads on-screen in particular, but there's also a boot-load of other stuff. It'd be a boring waste of time to see them pick up every single item that they're going to take ... there's more important stuff to be showing, not some mechanical point-to-point operational stuff. They needed weapons, they got weapons, that's what you need to see.

I dunno. I personally think they missed a chance at a sweeet montage of them packing up those bags to "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

Too many things read here to comment on, but I found Carl to be more annoying now than he was when he was disappearing all the damned time. He's a cocky little fart...

[Wyldwraith]

Clarifying,
I didn't expect/want to see them pack up every last little thing, but Rick was expressing issues with being cavalier with Morgan's stuff, Ie "We're eating the man's food now?" said chidingly to Michonne. He goes through all this craziness with Morgan, gets stabbed, has a sad little realization Morgan is broken and they move out. Problem is, enough stuff happened between Rick and Morgan it might've changed his decision on how much to take. Look at how a change of context with the Vatos changed Rick's decision on what to take back...and those were HIS guns.

I felt it was fuzzy on the general sense of "Did they get as much as they needed, some..most, what?"

That's all.

[MinionZombie]

You haven't watched S1 in a while, huh? Remember the first Morgan episode? There were no photos in the house. The ones on the wall were missing, as were the photo albums. Rick was emphatic that meant his wife survived long enough to get out. What happened to those photos? Are we to assume they were left with Hershel's farm? Carl should know this, as presumably he helped his mom pack on their way out. I guess I can assume he knew of a photo or two left on the fridge or something.... but the "last one" thing wouldn't make sense unless the albums were on the motor home.

So yes, nice narrative touch to get around the lack of a set, but the entire subplot has a lot of issues. (Not to say I didn't love it. The dead are walking, I'll ignore some loose strings on a freakin' photo album.

It's not literally the last photo of them in existence, but it's the last one easily to hand. Lori will not have taken every single photo from the entire house - everybody has pictures littered around, as well as spares dotted about (e.g. back in the days of using film, rather than digital, and not being able to preview what you took - so you often got a bunch of iffy pics back from the developers) - so there'd probably be some hanging around there (and you can't carry every photo you have as albums are heavy and bulky, and they don't feed or clothe you), however with the house burned down, that's that off the cards.

Then, yes, there'd be such stuff inside Hershel's house (as they were all moving in just before they were ousted by the herd, unless they were, as you say, inside the RV), but the farm is a long distance away by car, and could very well still be swarmed with walkers hanging out around there, plus the farm house itself could have been burned down as well by other means at some other point in time - perhaps another group came across the farm and their fate wasn't good and involved the farm burning down ... lots of possibilities, but they certainly aren't going back there, and Carl can't trundle off on his own, all the way out there ... so, circling back, it's not literally the last photo left, but it might as well be.

:)


I dunno. I personally think they missed a chance at a sweeet montage of them packing up those bags to "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

Too many things read here to comment on, but I found Carl to be more annoying now than he was when he was disappearing all the damned time. He's a cocky little fart...

1) :lol::lol::lol:

2) He is 12/13 years old ... who wasn't a cocky little fart at that age? He's matured a great deal in this apocalypse, but he's still a kid and he's still growing and maturing. All the others were adults long before the walkers cropped up, whereas Carl was just a normal child just shy of a year before this point.


Clarifying,
I didn't expect/want to see them pack up every last little thing, but Rick was expressing issues with being cavalier with Morgan's stuff, Ie "We're eating the man's food now?" said chidingly to Michonne. He goes through all this craziness with Morgan, gets stabbed, has a sad little realization Morgan is broken and they move out. Problem is, enough stuff happened between Rick and Morgan it might've changed his decision on how much to take. Look at how a change of context with the Vatos changed Rick's decision on what to take back...and those were HIS guns.

I felt it was fuzzy on the general sense of "Did they get as much as they needed, some..most, what?"

That's all.

They seem to have a very nice haul from what I saw in a preview clip from Robert Kirkman's interview on Conan t'other night. More a focus on ammunition - which is what you really need, and is naturally smaller. They have additional guns, yes, but suitably the priority should be ammo - and seems to have been - particularly as a relative newbie to guns (e.g. Carol - some experience, but not a lot), you'd want to stick to one main gun and a back up I'd say. Get familiar with the feel and operation (and taking care of) one main weapon, and then have something similar as a back up. Those who are more experienced (like Rick) are capable of using different weapons (albeit not to a professional standard with certain weapons), but they still stick to particular choice weapons (e.g. his Python).

We'll get to see exactly what they took in the new episode, but there's also the issue of limited space in the car ... and if you did have to fall back to Morgan's, you'd want a veritable arsenal waiting there for you. So yeah, ammo is the key priority, and as such it doesn't look as bulky ... but there were several bags taken on-screen, and a boot-load (trunk-load) of stuff taken with them when they left. :)

[Wyldwraith]

Fair enough,
If you're interested, my hope is that they knock it off with the Governor seeming to hold all the cards because of his mysterious ability to logistically negate any setbacks his side suffers seemingly by force of will. For example, the Woodbury people were on the verge of a panicked exodus into the wilds with the clothes on their back before Andrea stepped in. Two people get killed by Walkers and the crowd loses it down to the last man and woman. Relevance? Now the Governor is positioning them to function as his army of prison-conquest. Let's even assume the Gov could get them all to go to the prison in force. From everything we've seen, having their positions raked even by relatively blind fire of a mainly suppressive nature SHOULD result in a rout.

It's just TOO EASY on the villain if the Script Gods keep handing him every advantage. Yes, a villain must be a major threat to create tension...but there's having a Terminator chasing you, and then having every Terminator from all 3 movies chasing you simultaneously. For a regular guy one would be a tension-laden fight for life, while the second example would be an exercise in futility.

Little things could've alleviated this. Rick driving off Tyreese & Co. made me want to scream, just when it seemed Herschel had gotten through to him.

On the other hand, Michonne beginning to bond a bit with their group is encouraging, at times. Of course with Rick still saying things like we're working together until our common problem is resolved the message is mixed. Merle I just can't imagine working out in any mid-to-long-term way. Short-term common interest, perhaps. "Clear" was much more encouraging in an odd way by the end of it...with Rick making a joke about him seeing things to Michonne. I'd just like to see a couple more small-yet-significant "victories" for Rick & Co. before we see much more The Governor Has All the Cards. Judging by the previews my wish won't be granted at least in the short term...but I hope one can see why I feel as I do....and it would be nice to know if anyone else sees the back half of Season 3 in a similar fashion.

[zombieparanoia]

Why don't they just booby trap the hell out fo the prison and move to Morgans and hit woodbury from there?

[Andy]

zombieparanoia, your avatar interests me... where can i see more of it? :shifty:

[krisvds]

zombieparanoia, your avatar interests me... where can i see more of it? :shifty:

He said booby trap

[MinionZombie]

I'd say Michonne is fully in the group now. Carl said "she's one of us" and Rick took his lead on it, albeit a tad surprised initially, but his own son is saying it, so he's gotta trust him on it ... plus, seeing Morgan all wacked out at Crazy Morgan's Gun Emporium made him realise he's gotta step back from the brink of "stuff ... things".

I can kinda understand what you're saying Wyld, but on the other hand they're probably trying to make it seem like a real desperate challenge to Rick & Co, as well as make the take-down all the sweeter ... now, it hasn't bothered me, but yeah, you could have a couple of mini victories for Team Prison thrown in here and there - although, really, 3x12 was such a victory. Michonne is accepted into the group, Rick comes back from the brink, and they find a shitload of weapons and ammo - that's a pretty good day right there. :D

Another mini victory in-progress is bringing Andrea gradually back into the Team Prison fold.

[facestabber]

I'd say Michonne is fully in the group now. Carl said "she's one of us" and Rick took his lead on it, albeit a tad surprised initially, but his own son is saying it, so he's gotta trust him on it ... plus, seeing Morgan all wacked out at Crazy Morgan's Gun Emporium made him realise he's gotta step back from the brink of "stuff ... things".

I can kinda understand what you're saying Wyld, but on the other hand they're probably trying to make it seem like a real desperate challenge to Rick & Co, as well as make the take-down all the sweeter ... now, it hasn't bothered me, but yeah, you could have a couple of mini victories for Team Prison thrown in here and there - although, really, 3x12 was such a victory. Michonne is accepted into the group, Rick comes back from the brink, and they find a shitload of weapons and ammo - that's a pretty good day right there. :D

Another mini victory in-progress is bringing Andrea gradually back into the Team Prison fold.

I was right with ya Minion till you spoke of Andreas return. She better perform some act of rediculous bravery and show some humility. Actually I'd like to see her and Michonne fight with Michonne absolutely beating the crap out of her. Seconds before Andrea goes into a coma she apologies, agrees to follow not lead and will drop her super bitch at the gate, including facial expressions. I would enjoy an Andrea episode like that

[babomb]

Why don't they just booby trap the hell out fo the prison and move to Morgans and hit woodbury from there? At this point the prison isn't serving as the sanctuary that it was supposed to be. It's blown open in the back, the main gates in front are down.

There's so many things they could do to even the odds against Woodbury. But I'm sure none of it is gonna happen. They're just gonna blunder their way into another conflict, we're gonna lose a couple people most likely.
It's unfortunate that they're doing it this way when they have so many other options.

[Wyldwraith]

Here's my problem,
The Governor is currently functioning as a villainous Mary Sue. His right-hand man is gone due to the Gov's own vindictiveness, he's lost around ten of his death-squad members, Andrea is no longer just swallowing whatever BS he throws her way, and the man has an open wound where his eye was. Effect on his ability to wage a campaign of murderous conquest? Zero. I don't expect them to flesh out, or hell, even name all the Gov's thugs..but they need to give we viewers a clear understanding of how many there still are. When he hit the military convoy it looked like he had about 12 or 13 thugs not counting himself and Merle...plus we saw upon his return with the convoy's vehicles that there were 3-4 guys on the wall who'd been holding down the fort. Call it 17 at the most generous. The ones Michonne killed, the two Glenn & Maggie did in escaping, the casualties Rick & Co. inflicted which the Governor numbered at 6 before blaming him for the guy that got Walker-bit. Four for Michonne's body parts warning, 2 on Glenn/Maggie (but for the sake of argument let's even assume the Governor considered those among the 6 he mentioned, minus Merle and then the guy he lost during the raid on the prison. That's 12 of 17 at the most generous-to-the-Governor view.

So the Governor decides to arm and militarize 99% of Woodbury, generating 37 soldiers of dubious quality by Milton's count. Despite not one but 2 successful raids into Woodbury, with only 1 dead "raider" to show the people (Oscar), and despite the Governor withdrawing and leaving the people to Andrea to handle (other than sauntering out and putting down the bit guy without a word) during what's become a time of fear and uncertainty for the people of Woodbury, compounded by the unhappiness of at least some citizens at the mass-conscription....the people of Woodbury are apparently willing to be coerced into going forth to do battle with the folks that punked quite a few men they thought of as great fighters and protectors of the town.

Please understand, I wholeheartedly want the Governor to be a major threat and powerful antagonist set in opposition to our protagonists. It's just that I don't want the Governor's power to be the result of conveniently ignoring major losses on his side and unsupported/unrealistic militant solidarity throughout his new conscript army. Plus the whole extended spying on the prison whilst on foot makes me nuts. Rick and Co. can't go five steps beyond the fence without 2-5 Walkers beginning to trudge in their direction, but some guy or guys can hang out in woods we've established are a significant throughway for Walkers headed towards the prison and perform any useful observing of Rick & Co?

A few little tweaks, some clear exposition and you could have a Governor sitting just as pretty, but in a logically consistent manner. That's all I'm saying.

[Buzzbomb]

I was a bit disapointed with this episode...

To me, the car getting stuck didn't make sense until the return trip, when it was clearer that there was a boggy area by the side of the road... and the way the zombies snuck up on the car & popped out of nowhere was lazy.

Michonne going back into the cafe was a joke - getting past at least half a dozen zombies who were virtually standing on the picture, without them noticing or any biting the dust was incredulous.

The sudden crossbow appearance / disappearance (it was in one shot?) I thought was a terrible edit. Also how did the crib fit into the car?

Generally the rest was okay... Best bit (aside from the random hitch-hiker & Erin) was Michonne's retort to Rick while scoffing Morgan's food... "Well the mat did say welcome!".

On the subject of guns, I had thought that the TWD universe must be running out of ammo one year in, but I looked on line & worked out that there was about 1 gun for every 2 people in Georgia registered between 1998 - 2012... so I guess there's probably more than enough guns & ammo to put down all the walkers (even with the cast's sometimes erratic targeting!).

[MinionZombie]

Here's an excellent fan-made video for "Clear":

RxfYUMcqkUc

:)

[Neil]

^^ Some high points to the series. We need more of these 'on the side' personal stories...

[facestabber]

^^ Some high points to the series. We need more of these 'on the side' personal stories...

I agree. I just rewatched "Clear" couple days ago. The isolation. The alone it makes you feel. Great story telling. As mentioned above I wish the surprise attack gang of zombie scares to go away. Sometimes they let lazy creep in and it cheapens it a bit.