Dawn Of The Dead - official blu-ray releases, poor colour timing and 35th anniversary

[Toonloon]

Hi guys!

This is my first post here. I'm a long time Romero fan and I've been working on a little project that may interest you or you may be able to help me with.

First of all, I'm not here to sell anything. Far from it.

Like most of you, I've been buying DOTD since it was available in various cuts on VHS.

I recently bought the Starz version then the UK Arrow blu-ray. Both of which I find the colour timing to be horrible. I like to do some fan editing now and again so I decided to make my own version of DOTD. I tried to find as many reference shots as I could, look at when the movie was shot, what the weather was like, look for clues in the film itself, etc, to work out just what colour this film is supposed to look in HD.

Here's a couple of examples.

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/843/image1utw.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/600/image2rp.jpg

The first image is the Arrow UK BD and the second is my re-colouring of that image. I decided to use the Arrow version as it has less digital noise reduction (DNR) in it than the Starz one.

What I wanted to ask you good people is some advice on the Argento version. I'm sure you all know that Argento supervised a new HD master that is coming out as a 35th anniversary edition in December. Well, I was thinking of adding some of the Argento footage into my re-timed Theatrical edition to create a hybrid version.

What scenes in the Argento version do you think are superior (if any) of what part of the soundtrack would you prefer to hear in place of Romero's stock music track?

Thanks for looking in.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a few more examples of my re-coloured version. Arrow version is first, mine is second.

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/853/image3dp.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/209/image4ixg.jpg

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/703/image5wg.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/534/image6um.jpg

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/407/image7az.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/834/image8wj.jpg

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/41/image9ew.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/845/image10xn.jpg

I believe that what ever algorhythm they used to digitally scrub the movie skewed the colour palette into the red spectrum way too much. It really doesn't help with Tom Savinni's make ups when there is too much red in the film. I've tried to help out the make up jobs by making them slightly colder when Zombies are featured. All of this you shouldn't notice when you watch the film, and if I've been successful, you won't.

[kidgloves]

You're probably better off posting this in the film makers section.
Good luck

[Toonloon]

Oh. Okay. Technically I'm not creating anything. At first I was just trying to fix the lousy colour transfer on the blu-ray.

If a mod agrees this is in the wrong place, please move it, and my apologies.

[Neil]

I have to say your colouring seems like an improvement in some scenes, but a bit "too much" in others? I'd almost suggest the ideal would be half way between the Arrow and yours as you seem to have taken it possibly too far?

It's almost as if the "blue" has been taken up too much, and the contrast lost a little?

For example, I actually think yours has gone too far, especially on the skin tones, so I prefer the arrow one here:-
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/853/image3dp.jpg
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/209/image4ixg.jpg

That said, I'd say my monitor is only a cheapy, so may not be the best way to judge!?

[shootemindehead]

Everyone sees colours in vastly different ways. Nothing is the same between two people.

That said, I think the that colder "bluer" look of the OP's edit is a significant improvement over the colour timing that's on the blu-ray, which is far, far too warm in my opinion.

On the issue of DNR, I really wish companies would stop doing that. I happen to like film grain, it's actually something I miss in modern digital film. But the DNR process often ends up looking like someone took every single frame of a film into Photoshop and applied a blur to them. I come away a lot of the time feeling I need glasses on.

[Toonloon]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

shootemindehead is absolutely right when he says we see colour in different ways. Neil - you may have gotten used to the warmer tones or actually prefer the look of more red in the picture and that is totally fine. Afterall, I'm changing it to match how I think it should look so you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

In those screen grabs, I didn't alter any contrast. I've only altered the RGB levels. Some scenes needed more work than others. I have changed brightness and contrast in some areas but this was where the different time of day was visible from shot to shot. When Stephen lands the helicopter at the air field it is quite dark and overcast but when Roger jumps out to grab the pumps it has brightened up considerably. I tried to manipulate that shot to make it match better and I believe it does.

Any thoughts on the Argento footage gentlemen? I found a good list of all the changes between versions but I find it hard to follow, plus it doesn't give much in the way of opinion of whether or not its a good addition or a bad one. This is why I am here as I figured you guys would be the experts to ask.

- - - Updated - - -

Neil - forgot to pick up another of your points. I did leave some of the Arrow stuff mostly untouched. I dialled back the red across the board, but not in equal levels. The studio scene and the scenes in their "apartment" retain the warm red colour that is so prevalent in the Arrow version, without being so heavy handed. It's mostly the outdoor scenes that suffer greatly from the blown out red colours.

I tried to look at as many versions of DOTD across as many formats as possible and I've come to the unmistakable conclusion that the film looked a lot colder than it does in these HD transfers. You can see breath on the soldiers and hill billies and yet the sky is pink. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Neil]

Neil - you may have gotten used to the warmer tones or actually prefer the look of more red in the picture and that is totally fine. Afterall, I'm changing it to match how I think it should look so you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
Having looked on a different monitor... I'd still say your colour change is for the better, but a touch too much IMHO.

But, that's all it is of course... my opinion :)

Looks better, but just a bit too much blue for me :)
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/853/image3dp.jpg
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/209/image4ixg.jpg

[Toonloon]

Neil - I thank you for your opinion. You could very well be right. I'll take another look at it. Sometimes in completely removing the red hue it moves a little too far into the blue or even green spectrum. I had that problem when they land on the roof of the mall, so it's entirely possible that you are correct. I had to be very careful with that scene to get it looking okay.

I'll take some more screen grabs of the SWAT team in the building and post them and see if you think that scene should be looked at again by me. It's entirely possible that you are correct. Personally, I think the second picture of Roger looks more natural in the flesh tones. Maybe he does look a little too cold.

I have to go to work now but I'll be back later this afternoon.

Please have a think about the Argento version for me, if you are familiar with it and thanks for the fantastic website!

:D

[bassman]

At least it's not as bad as the Night90 BLUE Ray....

[Toonloon]

I've heard Savinni supervised that transfer himself and that was how he preferred it to look.

I remember seeing the release around 1990 and I remember thinking that it was way too bright and that some of the make up looked a bit rubbery under such harsh conditions. That was one of the major pluses of the original - the high contrast black and white photography.

[EvilNed]

I have the Argento version, but I've never seen it. I personally think the theatrical cut is the best of them. The extended edition has too much stock music for my tastes, and I hate much of it. The theatrical cut is perfect (and that's also the directors cut, if I'm not mistaken?).

I'll give the Argento version a go sometime soon, tho. This thread piqued my interest.

[Toonloon]

Totally agree with you EvilNed. But I'm trying to offer something different for the fans and this was the best idea I had.

There is an extended fan edit called EXTENDED MALL OPENING HOURS which is the longest version of DOTD you can get. It contains ALL the commercially available footage from all 3 cuts, if you are interested.

[Neil]

One thing I did prefer from the Argento cut was the basement scene, mainly due to the Goblins music.

YRPHl1DIed4

(3mins onwards)
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[Toonloon]

What did you like in particular about it? Was it just the music? Do you know if it is scene for scene the same as the Theatrical? It would be possible for me to swap the soundtracks and add Argent's 5.1 mix to Romero's 1080p presentation.

BTW, I took a look at the SWAT raid and I think I agree with you. I'm correct in the red reduction is the right way to go but it has gone too far into the blue when it comes to some of the skin colouring. I think I need to add a bit more yellow to some of the close-ups.

[Neil]

^ If you compare the two example, you'll see the stuff leading up to the shooting is the same but then Argento stops short, without Roger getting to shoot anyone.

Infact get the first video paused at 0:00, and play the second video from 2:27, and start the first one... You'll see at about 1m13s Argento decides to shorten the scene :)

[bassman]

I've heard Savinni supervised that transfer himself and that was how he preferred it to look.

I remember seeing the release around 1990 and I remember thinking that it was way too bright and that some of the make up looked a bit rubbery under such harsh conditions. That was one of the major pluses of the original - the high contrast black and white photography.

From what I understand, the cinematographer gave his blessing for the transfer over the telephone. Savini wasn't involved and didn't comment on it until he received his copy after release. If I remember correctly, that is. Some other members here probably remember better than I do.

[Toonloon]

Oh, I'm sorry Neil. I thought both versions were the Argento one. I hadn't realised they were comparison vids. My bad.

I miss seeing Roger shoot the last one, but that's easily fixed.

Does anyone know if you can get the Goblin soundtrack for this?

- - - Updated - - -

Neil - you're confusing me, mate. Roger shoots the last zombie (before the GI opens the trap door) in both clips.

[shootemindehead]

The only thing I like about the Argento cut is that it gets rid of the silly helicopter zombie, the stupid pie fight and that "test your heartrate" idiot (I think).

[Toonloon]

Those are interesting points. Although I agree that the helicopter zombie is a less successful effect, I think fans would miss that scene and would be distracted by it's absence if I cut it. I like the idea of cutting the heart rate guy, I may do that myself. The pie fight isn't great but those bikers don't give a fuck. I think I'll keep that in.

Great ideas. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

Neil - how about this? I've followed your suggestion and tried to go a bit more subtle in the tower block. There isn't a great deal of difference to be honest but I still think it's a step in the right direction. As I think I mentioned earlier, it's the outdoor scenes that suffer the most from the poor transfer.

Arrow
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/543/nhtp.jpg

Mine
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/819/bsmz.jpg

Here's another anomaly that looked poor to me. The shots inside the helicopter don't match the shot of outside the copter. I understand that the camera is now supposed to be floating outside, but that should make Stephen darker. I've altered the lighting ever so slightly in these two shots to try and make them match better. When you see the original, it leaps out at you. I think it's because the lighting is wrong. Hopefully you won't notice mine so much.

Arrow (unaltered)
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/13/kvs3.jpg
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/189/hr6i.jpg

Mine (colour timed and lighting changed slightly)
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/19/67h0.jpg
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/9/owok.jpg

[Neil]

^^
http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/819/bsmz.jpg
To my eyes, that looks far more natural compared to your first example?
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/209/image4ixg.jpg

[Toonloon]

Yeah I agree with you now Neil. Rog looks too pale in my first attempt. It looks more natural in the second go.

Some of these scenes need to be timed individually. What works for one does not work for another.

Keep those argento suggestions coming please. I bought the goblin soundtrack earlier so I could add some goblin music over the theatrical cut where there is none present. What do you guys think about the goblin music over the boiler room zombie and Stephen? Or the Krishna zombie?

[bassman]

I applaud your effort and work on these, but if I'm completely honest....I think the existing Blu Ray caps look the best...

[Toonloon]

That's cool. You can pick up either version any time you want from Amazon. Those pink skies really bug me though. And the pink hue to the zombie make up looks ridiculous to me, but if it doesn't bother you then who am I to argue.

:)

[shootemindehead]

http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/19/67h0.jpg


Ha ha...the face on Peter. He's thinking...

"Roger, you witless ass...I just know you're going to screw everything up eventually..."

[krisvds]

Great job Toon!

I honestly think those pics you posted do look better than the Arrow release. Especially after Neil's comments (Roger did look a tad too blue in your first attempt) it comes across as a bit more natural.

[Toonloon]

Thanks Chris.

I was re-working the air strip section last night and I noticed another alarming mismatch within the footage. At first I thought I really screwed something up but when I removed my filters I saw that it was in the Arrow version to begin with.

If you have the blu-ray and your look at the scene where Peter comes out the office pissed off with Stephen and points a gun at him, check out the broken up shot of Peter emerging. You get Roger shouting to break up the scene and when you return to it, the shots hardly match at all.

I don't believe this is a production error, I believe it is a consequence of the hideous DNR done to this film to blow out the colours and make all the faces lack details.

I watched THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS last night on BD and the Criterion transfer is above and beyond the DOTD and KING was made in '71 and probably did take as much money as DOTD did in a month.

On a side note, I tried watching both versions side by side last night to try to re-integrate some footage but my head nearly exploded as if Bully had shot with the complications that involved.

One of the first extra shots I noticed was that Fran's friend who comes in the office at the beginning says to her "it's my turn with the coat", meaning she's going to have a nap now. You only hear that line in the Romero version but you see the actress say it in Argento. All these years and I missed that line in the Theatrical version because you didn't see the actress say it and it gets lost in the sound mix.

It sure is complicated, all these different versions. I may just add some extra Goblin music in rather than lift out sections of Argento's edit.

[Neil]

I don't believe this is a production error, I believe it is a consequence of the hideous DNR done to this film to blow out the colours and make all the faces lack details.
Have you not got an older (less messed around copy) that you can compare it to?

[Toonloon]

The arrow DVD of the argento cut ironically has a much better colour scheme. I looked at that initially. Also publicity photos. And stuff like actors breath, rain puddles, etc. all this confirmed for me that the skies were never pink.

[Andy]

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/843/image1utw.jpghttps://imageshack.us/scaled/large/600/image2rp.jpg


I always wondered... is that supposed to be a guy or a girl next to fran in that scene?

[Toonloon]

I think it is Chris Romeos brother. She's sitting at the control
Desk next to George in the next scene.

[Griff]

No, Chris Romero's brother is one of the certified BLOKES in the control room. He also has a role in Knightriders as the dude who sells Gary Lahti the necklace that he gives to Patty Tallman (the one who says "Oh, she's got plenty to offer" - or something like that).

But this is a very interesting project, indeed. Perhaps run it by the crew at originaltrilogy.com - yes, its primarily Star Wars orientated, but its become somewhat of a haven for film preservationists, reconstructionists and fan-editors and there's a sub-forum dedicated to precisely this kinda work. A coupla chaps from there just released a re-graded blu ray of Night of the Living Dead '90 which sought to undo the vandalism enacted upon the official release.

[Toonloon]

Some more news on the new 35th anniversary box set.

http://www.ghoulbasement.com/2013/12/update-on-happinets-35th-anniversary.html

Looks like the picture quality has been greatly improved, although I agree with the poster that the contrast looks blown out.

[Toonloon]

My workprint is online if anyone wants to take a look. Post a picture of your BD of DOTD and PM your email address and I'll send you the file. You will need some free software called jDownloader to download the movie.