Contains Spoilers! TWD 4x01 "30 Days Without an Accident" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN** [Archive]

Harleydude666

14-Oct-2013, 02:53 AM

Nicoteros episodes are always weak, IMO.

I didn't think the episode was too bad though. I liked seeing how they fortified, started growing crops, and then the supply run. I like supply runs. We need more of them!!! I didn't like when Herschel brought up the idea that when harvest time comes they won't have to go on supply runs. That made me shutter at the thought of being totally cooped up in the prison for episode after episode. Hope that doesn't happen.
I was somewhat turned off by all the "couples" scenes, but at least they were short. Gotta present something for the braindeads out there or there won't be enough viewers to keep things running smooth.

It was a little on the weak side, unfortunately. This seems to be the year for weak premieres though. The Homeland premiere was a bit on the weak side also.

That was a little strange on Talking dead where Scott Gimple sits on the other dudes hand and the guy just leaves his hand there. WTF!??:D

Not sure why people coupling up bothered you, it's the natural progression of the human being. Shit like that happens in life and very natural and they portrayed it well in the episode. Whadda ya want to see, nothing but raid after raid after raid? That's boring! The show needs these developing relationships, it's the only way we'll care about these characters as they are killed off, or not. Fine opener, gave us a bit of everything

facestabber

14-Oct-2013, 03:02 AM

Ricks character has gone past the point of stupid that he has to be ordered to take his gun. And teaching kids about self defense is now against ricks beliefs? I thought Carl was supposed to be tougher and cold and he seemed nothing like that. The creepy lady was just that creepy. We already had the hick in the woods. She took up way too much screen time. Too many characters now.

Babomb is right about the abundant love interests and the supply runs are exciting. Zombies falling from the ceiling was new but it feels like they just want to keep showing gore for the sake of gore. Just let down. The previous 3 seasons delivered much better than what we got tonight

rightwing401

14-Oct-2013, 03:31 AM

Not a bad opening in my opinion. I liked seeing how the prison and the survivors had changed over time. The one thing I reallly want to know is, wtf was up with that walker with the bleeding eyes? And does it have anything to do with harry potter 2.0's untimely demise?

babomb

14-Oct-2013, 03:38 AM

Not sure why people coupling up bothered you, it's the natural progression of the human being. Shit like that happens in life and very natural and they portrayed it well in the episode. Whadda ya want to see, nothing but raid after raid after raid? That's boring! The show needs these developing relationships, it's the only way we'll care about these characters as they are killed off, or not. Fine opener, gave us a bit of everything It's not the act of people coupling up, it's the way they portray it. People in that sort of situation wouldn't be so soft and feely, and emotionally honest and open. People in reality right now don't even act like that.
The couple interactions should be more flirtatious and playful, and less "storybook marriage". It's not very believable like it is.
These people have been through hell, they've lost loved ones and seen numerous others eaten alive and worse. They're emotionally drained, damaged and cut off. They wouldn't be able to have such sweet and soft relationships. The way they're portraying this aspect just doesn't follow real emotional dynamics. It's being written in a fairy-tale way for the "Twilight" crowd out there. It creates a lapse in the gritty realism that makes the entire show, IMO.
These are new relationships, which tend to be more sexual in nature. In a world where people die on a consistent basis, in horrible ways, people aren't that willing to be so emotionally invested in a relationship so quickly.
The interaction between Daryl and Carol is more realistic. People don't dive into relationships head first like that after being through so much emotional trauma.
The casual hook-ups from the comics have been replaced by the type of relationships normally had by 12 year olds, and people that have been married for years.
It's just too boring. There should be intensity and real sexual tension going on. Not cheek kisses, the open sharing of emotion and warm embraces.

Harleydude666

14-Oct-2013, 04:13 AM

It's not the act of people coupling up, it's the way they portray it. People in that sort of situation wouldn't be so soft and feely, and emotionally honest and open. People in reality right now don't even act like that.
The couple interactions should be more flirtatious and playful, and less "storybook marriage". It's not very believable like it is.
These people have been through hell, they've lost loved ones and seen numerous others eaten alive and worse. They're emotionally drained, damaged and cut off. They wouldn't be able to have such sweet and soft relationships. The way they're portraying this aspect just doesn't follow real emotional dynamics. It's being written in a fairy-tale way for the "Twilight" crowd out there. It creates a lapse in the gritty realism that makes the entire show, IMO.
These are new relationships, which tend to be more sexual in nature. In a world where people die on a consistent basis, in horrible ways, people aren't that willing to be so emotionally invested in a relationship so quickly.
The interaction between Daryl and Carol is more realistic. People don't dive into relationships head first like that after being through so much emotional trauma.

Those people have been there over 6 months which has been confirmed by Gimple. These people are trying to hold on to something after the trauma, bloodletting and loved ones lost. Maggie and Glenn have been together for two years now and I didn't see anything forced or lovey Dover with Tyreese and dark haired girl, just two normal people looking for companionship. Very good paced show that hit a lot of areas and was very direct. Agree to disagree

babomb

14-Oct-2013, 04:49 AM

Those people have been there over 6 months which has been confirmed by Gimple. These people are trying to hold on to something after the trauma, bloodletting and loved ones lost. Maggie and Glenn have been together for two years now and I didn't see anything forced or lovey Dover with Tyreese and dark haired girl, just two normal people looking for companionship. Very good paced show that hit a lot of areas and was very direct. Agree to disagree Some of them have been there. Some just got there. When you're a survivor of the apocalypse like that, dealing with it day in and day out, you don't try to hold on to something after the trauma, because you live under the threat of more trauma every minute you're awake. You harden yourself because you expect that trauma to continue.
I agree that with Maggie and Glenn things are as they have been, and as they should be. I'm not even talking about them really.

How could there be 2 normal people looking for companionship? These are survivors of the zombie apocalypse. There are no normal people anymore. Only stressed out, hard edged, emotionally cut off survivor types, and the dead. "Normal" people don't make it this far.

I would agree to disagree. But these types of discussions were consistent from week to week back in the days of season 1&2. Which made things interesting. I'd like to see that be the case again.

MinionZombie

14-Oct-2013, 11:41 AM

A solid episode to kick things off - I dug it.

There was a lot to establish, so this episode was as much about re-establishing the world we know, while also showing us how things have evolved (e.g. the prison's new look as a home for a few dozen folks - farming the land, the eatery in the courtyard, Beth's room is all decked out to suit her personally, the shower system they've rigged up etc).

As for the closer - I assume the kid (Patrick, IIRC) caught something and died from it - and as we know, even if you die of natural causes in this world, you'll come back as a walker. I suppose that's a danger in this world - you never know when or if someone might day of natural causes. Even young and seemingly fit people can have a heart attack, or a stroke, or what have you ... so, in a way, everyone's potentially a ticking time bomb.

I liked that Carl has drifted back to being a little more like a kid - getting comics from Michonne etc - I'm sure being around other kids reminds me of what age he's supposed to be, but of course after spending two years being in a very strange limbo space (too old to be a child, too young to be an adult), it'll be awkward for him (hence sneaking into storytime and discovering Carol's teaching knife class - he's surruptitiously trying to be a kid without anyone knowing, but he'd also be annoyed that younger kids are being taught how to defend themselves - hence asking for his gun back from Rick). I think it's important to bring him back a bit, and even with him getting a little older, he himself might be realising more the difference between when it's right and wrong to pull the trigger and how important context is. It's an incredibly fine line to tread, and living in this world surrounded exclusively by fully formed adults, no doubt lead to confusion of when is the right time to pull the trigger. Kids will always make mistakes as they learn - but of course in this world the mistakes can be fatal.

The raid on the Big Spot was really cool. I liked how it's been thought out so we get glimpses of how it's all thought-out - the medical supplies in each car, the body armour, waiting 48 hours for the walkers to clear out of the area (by setting up loud music on car batteries in the distance to draw them away) and so on. Very cool.

That whole sequence was pretty damn epic too - lots of awesome gore moments to appeal to that side of us (e.g. the intestinal dangler, the split-face walker, etc) - that'd be damn scary too, in a dark store and all of a sudden you've got walkers falling through the flippin' roof! I know I'd shit myself. Interesting that Zack was snuffed out so quickly - I'd almost thought they'd keep him around a bit longer, but I suppose he was there to serve a purpose - to remind of the ever-present danger, to show that Daryl is entirely sick of losing people, and that Beth is in this strange emotional place that's unique to this world - she's happy she knew him for the time she did, but she accepts his death like he'd just missed the bus and would be late to dinner. :p

The crazy lady side story was cool too - a nice mix with the big action - but in such a way that it wasn't like 3x04 going from HUGE MOMENTS to sodding map reading or golf (3x04 was a great episode in spite of the awful pacing of those Woodbury cutaway moments) ... ... here in 4x01, the pace is different, but because Rick's story with the nutter lady was mysterious and tense, it fit within everything that was going on, not to mention thematically.

I was half-wondering if she was a cannibal (although I assume she might have been), and I'm guessing that it was her husband in that sack ... although, only a bit of him. It was good that they kept things mysterious - I knew it wasn't going to end well, but the hows and whys of it all - was Rick going to say that there was no such statue at that airport? Was she leading him into a cannibal gang trap? I almost thought she had a dead baby in that wooden crate (she was blocking the sack initially) ... a really good performance from her too - full on crazy, but really quite sad too. You could see that she'd lost so much, and was essentially feral, and this is why it's worth holding on to the good things in life.

A nice mix with Glenn & Maggie - I'd wondered if she was preggers, but evidently not. I dug their different responses to it though - Glenn's fearful of losing everything, but she's fearful of never having anything in the meantime.

As for "coupling up" - that was a considerable portion of the comic - it's less-so in the TV show. I'd imagine in such a terrible world you'd need something worth fighting for, you'd want to gravitate towards someone who could provide those precious moments of companionship and peace, rather than just being alone and lost and terrified, and potentially with nothing much to live for ... at the same time it can be a curse - if you lose your loved one that's terrible, and it could soften your resolve to go out and scavenge etc ... this was also the case with Tyreese (IIRC it's "Karen" or something like that for her - she was the chick who survived The Governor's massacre, if memory serves). If you don't have someone though, you might be sharp and not care so you can always get the survivalist job done, but then what? You're just surviving to survive - what's the point? You NEED something to fight for - it can be for other people (either a loved one, or a group you're protecting, or both) or it can be for a safe haven (or both).

So an all-round solid starter - a nice mix of content, quiet moments with creepy moments with full-on action spectacle ... survivalist smarts with broader thematic ideas and questions.

I dug it. :)

Welcome back TWD.

*EDIT*

Oh, and another thing I loved - the sheer noise of the walkers when Rick takes his earbuds out - just imagine that constant, angry howling all day and every day ... it's chilling to think about.

Interesting too how the young kids were treating the walkers (from a safe distance!) almost as pets, or invisible friends, or just some strange oddity like a kid finding an animal they've never seen in a garden before or something like that. Good to see that Carl recognises that they were once people who had names and had lives. You don't want to let him get too dark.

bassman

14-Oct-2013, 01:37 PM

With the lead into this season being my least anticipated yet, I was pleasantly surprised with this premiere. It set up tons of questions for the rest of the season and hopefully set the tone for how it will continue. Just enough action, but not over the top like most people seem to expect from premieres and finales.

So yeah....I'm actually looking forward to this season now. If the other episodes can keep this up, this may improve over the lackluster third season.

AcesandEights

14-Oct-2013, 02:53 PM

I too thought this was a solid season opener. With the cast updating and change of circumstances, it's like a whole new show. Not sure how long it will last, or whether there will be major pacing issues across the season again, but I really enjoyed it!

facestabber

14-Oct-2013, 03:23 PM

I thought it was lacking compared to previous. But Im glad I am in the minority. I still have faith in the show and its the only tv I care about.

The couple thing is just over done. Im happy for Glen and Maggie but the romance has ruined Glen's character. Still a good guy but I much prefer the kid driving the Charger and "hey dumbass". Something to fight for? Sure I get it. But FWB would seem more appropriate in this world. I just dont wanna see Days of our Lives meets TWD. I would fight for my close friends just as much as a piece of ass. And our group, minus the fodder, is close enough to establish that.

But since I posted negative stuff and after rewatching I need to speak of what I liked.

Daryl Dixon as a humble leader. Bout time. Unless Rick's course changes they definitely need Daryl. Daryl and Hershel running the show works for me. Not a fan of the new Rick but I think change will be forced. The earbud deal drowning out the noise was a nice touch and also shows a path that Romero wanted to explore that, to Rick, the Walkers are a nuisance.

The raid and tactics Minion mentioned were well thought out. I liked seeing attention to detail and thought out plans. And ever since seeing Diehard I gotta say seeing Sasha toting that MP5 brought a smile to my face. Great weapon for that environment. Though I think I saw her drop the gun when it went empty. I would personally punch her in the tit for that atrocity.

I think the best acting during this episode to show us the state of the prison camp was Beth. Her reaction to her boy toys death really sent a strong message and told a story. And yes I am aware they had to do my above mentioned critism of the lovie dovie to send that message. So I will eat a little crow.

A tone has been set that people are trying to return to normalcy. I look forward to next week when the peace will probably be shattered.

MoonSylver

14-Oct-2013, 03:34 PM

As for the closer - I assume the kid (Patrick, IIRC) caught something and died from it - and as we know, even if you die of natural causes in this world, you'll come back as a walker. I suppose that's a danger in this world - you never know when or if someone might day of natural causes. Even young and seemingly fit people can have a heart attack, or a stroke, or what have you ... so, in a way, everyone's potentially a ticking time bomb.

That was my take too, but the WHAT that he died of has me puzzled, coupled with how the whole thing was staged: "I'm happy & fine!-uh, I don't feel well-yikes I'm puking blood-aaaand, I'm dead!" what the hell did the the guy catch, super black plague with optional ninja stealth mode? Not a major gripe, but it was a little weird/jarring for me. :|

AcesandEights

14-Oct-2013, 04:17 PM

That was my take too, but the WHAT that he died of has me puzzled, coupled with how the whole thing was staged: "I'm happy & fine!-uh, I don't feel well-yikes I'm puking blood-aaaand, I'm dead!" what the hell did the the guy catch, super black plague with optional ninja stealth mode? Not a major gripe, but it was a little weird/jarring for me. :|

Well, I could guess...

That this leads into the big change up in threat that has been discussed/alluded to for this season.

So it could be garden variety disease or a new delivery mechanic/vector for the undead plague that acts like a bite. After all, maybe this kid was one of a few people using that particular shower area (which they made a point of showing at least twice, iirc)? Who knows what's in the cistern it's drawing from.

sandrock74

14-Oct-2013, 04:31 PM

I think the kid could have died from appendicitis, as he displayed similar symptoms. Left untreated, it will kill you! Also, its non-contagious, so no worries about anything spreading. Of course, then that would mean everything hinting to something viral was all a red-herring. Hm, what do I know??

I did read one interesting theory online this morning: Patrick was attacked by the Governor, who was armed with a blowgun. LOL!! Personally, I think that would be an awesome reveal...

MinionZombie

14-Oct-2013, 04:33 PM

Hmmm ... spoiled water, spoiled food (as in spoiled by walkers), or something like that? Could it be a mutation of some sort? Could it be the walker virus combining/mutating with some sort of flu or some sort of disease? Is it linked with Violet the Pig's death? We shall see, I guess...

Again ... the sound of those walkers when Rick takes his earbuds out ... it gave me the creeps. Great work from Nicotero & Co on the gore front too, some really sweet-arse kills and touches throughout from the obvious moments (e.g. the dangler) to more subtle things like that creepy-as-hell walker with the oozing bloody eyes, or that female walker with the protruding cheek bones pressing against the metal fencing before Karen (IIRC) snuffed her out.

I think they also called the fence stabbers the "Cold Crew" (Zack mentions it to Beth), which I thought was a nice touch - little bits of lingo specific to their world - again, I also liked how the crazy lady remarked along the lines of 'walkers, so that's what you call them?' - Woodbury said "Biters" after all ... but then again, Glenn and T-Dog used to call them "Geeks" too.

Interesting to see some of the reactions - perhaps because we love this show so much (well, not every single person here, but most of us at least), we hold it to a very high standard. It's important to enjoy the show - or any show, or any movie etc - on its own terms. Anticipation and expectation can sometimes be a killer.

Facestabber - good to see that, even though you were let down by the episode, you still dug things about it. I also liked the 'reluctant leader' thing for Daryl - all that positive attention and 'let me shake your hand' stuff really had him a little uneasy. I also liked the little bit with Zack trying to guess what Daryl did before the outbreak, which was a nice touch as it hinted at a history with these characters that embedded them in that world longer, even though we've only just met them.

Anyway - yeah, I've been doing some memes:

http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/story-time-edition-walking-dead-4x01.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxCfmXfCD7k/UlwX0UCIfQI/AAAAAAAACDM/pZc1vSlR2tw/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Beard_Old_Stor y_Time_4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DTAd_a1RTsU/UlwX2YXD5DI/AAAAAAAACEA/gVF8hIpx_4I/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Farmer_Rick_Walker_ Gang_Dirty_Hoe_4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kIuHGqjohHI/UlwX1i5so_I/AAAAAAAACDs/FrUdGz8SAp4/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Daryl_Carol_Liked_B efore_Cool_4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P_0I8E_v8EM/UlwX1cBrt0I/AAAAAAAACDo/Mcb2oOwRgr8/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Beth_Zack_Good _4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DHqLoti4oy0/UlwX1PVDTMI/AAAAAAAACDg/3c9P9bkDick/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carol_Carl_Story_Ti me_Bull_Knives_4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vf5dshfE0uc/UlwX2G_6Y-I/AAAAAAAACD0/RNr6Qyegxtg/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Daryl_Walker_Hangin g_Out_WTF_4x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jed_pXe4GzY/UlwX2qVYKFI/AAAAAAAACD8/PpKjc_A0O70/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Violet_Pig_Memoriam _4x01_DeadShed.jpg

:)

Tagged them so it takes up less space.

Ragnarr

14-Oct-2013, 04:49 PM

While a tad weak likely due to my own anticipation waiting for the season to begin, it was a good setup episode for all the hairy shyte coming this season. The Harry Potter kid (after shaking Daryl's saliva covered fingers) becomes sick and dies, BUT not before sweating and coughing over the shower water tank. I heard of Typhoid Mary before, but a Cholera Daryl?

Intentionally not reading TWD comics so as to be surprised as the storyline unfolds, but I think this season will be kickass for sure.

Btw, the Harry Potter kid's line when concluding the scene with Carl by the fence, "thank you young sir" was completely ridiculous for him to say. "See you later" would be the likely line imo.

AcesandEights

14-Oct-2013, 05:15 PM

Btw, the Harry Potter kid's line when concluding the scene with Carl by the fence, "thank you young sir" was completely ridiculous for him to say.

Not for a nerd, it's not. And take it from me (a hobbyist nerd), that kid most definitely qualifies as a nerd. They'll probably bury him with his foam LARPing weapons :)

Ragnarr

14-Oct-2013, 05:30 PM

Not for a nerd, it's not. And take it from me (a hobbyist nerd), that kid most definitely qualifies as a nerd. They'll probably bury his foam LARPing weapons with him.

lol I guess you might just be right on that point. I know of a few nerds myself. For some reason though, the nerd's line in that scene was like a poke in my eye. I WANTED him to become infected with cholera right there & then. :duh:

AcesandEights

14-Oct-2013, 05:32 PM

lol I guess you might just be right on that point. I know of a few nerds myself. For some reason though, the nerd's line in that scene was like a poke in my eye. I WANTED him to become infected with cholera right there & then. :duh:

Hey, maybe your wish was granted! ;)

MinionZombie

14-Oct-2013, 05:37 PM

A nerd like him would definitely say something clunky and awkward and semi-ironic like "thank you young sir" ... Carl wasn't having any of it though. :lol::lol::lol: That kid's shot people, Patrick, he's seen some shit and done some of it himself. :D

With Maggie's pregnancy scare, I guess Glenn ran out of his supply of eleven condoms. ;)

facestabber

14-Oct-2013, 06:38 PM

With Maggie's pregnancy scare, I guess Glenn ran out of his supply of eleven condoms. ;)[/QUOTE]

Glen has to learn to fight the urge for Maggies pleasure. As I explained to my girlfriend as the pregnancy issue unfolded....Honey in that world the choice is narrowed to your mouth or ass to which she agreed. Last thing I want in that world is to care for a baby. And I much prefer Maggie in her ass kicking role than playing mom to be.

babomb

14-Oct-2013, 06:39 PM

As for "coupling up" - that was a considerable portion of the comic - it's less-so in the TV show. I'd imagine in such a terrible world you'd need something worth fighting for, you'd want to gravitate towards someone who could provide those precious moments of companionship and peace, rather than just being alone and lost and terrified, and potentially with nothing much to live for ... at the same time it can be a curse - if you lose your loved one that's terrible, and it could soften your resolve to go out and scavenge etc ... this was also the case with Tyreese (IIRC it's "Karen" or something like that for her - she was the chick who survived The Governor's massacre, if memory serves). If you don't have someone though, you might be sharp and not care so you can always get the survivalist job done, but then what? You're just surviving to survive - what's the point? You NEED something to fight for - it can be for other people (either a loved one, or a group you're protecting, or both) or it can be for a safe haven (or both). In reality, everyone would be more like Michonne. Closed off and distant, reluctant to get close to others, unwilling to share emotional experiences. Undoubtedly. They'd all have severe PTSD. It's the minds natural survival mechanism. And you don't get through it until you realize and admit that you have it and that it's negatively effecting your life. But that can't happen in the midst of the stress and trauma that creates it. It takes years to be able to even start to recover, and that's only possible once you're completely removed from that environment. It doesn't happen after just a little downtime.
The original group would be close with each other because they have a history, and a bond forged from traumatic experiences. They'd be closed off and distant toward the new group members though. They'd still be willing to have sexual partners, but there would be little to no real emotional connection.
Look at the troops that come back from any serious conflict. They have alot of trouble acclimating to normal life. their relationships with their families suffer, they need mental help, they often become alcoholics. This is the natural reaction to being exposed to extreme violence and suffering repeated loss of people you care about.

What we're seeing in the show is fiction, based more on what sounds good in theory, in the writers room. It's totally disconnected from the reality of human nature.
When you say-

I'd imagine in such a terrible world you'd need something worth fighting for, you'd want to gravitate towards someone who could provide those precious moments of companionship and peace, rather than just being alone and lost and terrified, and potentially with nothing much to live for... This comes much later, in the late stages of recovery. Once the stressful environment has completely gone. Once you have a chance to reflect on your mental state, and start to put the past behind you.
This doesn't happen when the same threat is continuously building up less than 100 yards from where you sleep.
You're right though that because we love the show, and the story, we expect more than this. That's why I take issue with this aspect.

But this doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the episode, or that I don't look forward to the next. It just means I have to scale back my expectations.
But at the same time, discussion in the threads would be pretty boring if all we said was how much we loved everything.

What I liked alot about the episode is seeing how they've started to focus on survival more. Seeing them go on supply runs is something I've always wanted more of. And NO, I don't expect to see supply run after supply run. But it would be great to see entire episodes dedicated to missions away from the prison, like we had with "Clear", and "18 Miles Out". It builds upon character relationships for them to spend time with each other in stressful situations, working toward a specific goal. And gives us a chance to see the landscape of the world they're in, gives an opportunity to use imagery to tell the story.

Ragnarr

14-Oct-2013, 07:59 PM

I guess the only other thing about this episode that bugged me almost as much as the "thank you young sir" was the razor shape zombie bite on what's-his-name's leg in the store scene. Anything other than a shark would have quite a time biting clean through denim, except a zombie when the plot calls for it. It's not just in TWD you'll see this nutty phenomenon. The first Dawn of the Dead comes to mind (Roger's leg while climbing into the truck), and some other flicks. Always makes me yell at the screen, "oh c'mon now!" :mad: At least have the zombie slide the pants leg up enough to expose flesh before the chomp.

While I'm still on a rant (and bored as hell at work), in the scene when Daryl knocks on the window of the store to draw any walkers inside to the front, what's-his-name displays everything NOT to do with a loaded shotgun short of putting the barrel in his mouth and then doing some Irish step dancing. He sits next to Daryl, shotgun on his lap and barrel pointed at Daryl's side. Safety on or not, one in the chamber or no, it's a great way to accidently kill your team.

facestabber

14-Oct-2013, 08:17 PM

I guess the only other thing about this episode that bugged me almost as much as the "thank you young sir" was the razor shape zombie bite on what's-his-name's leg in the store scene. Anything other than a shark would have quite a time biting clean through denim, except a zombie when the plot calls for it. It's not just in TWD you'll see this nutty phenomenon. The first Dawn of the Dead comes to mind (Roger's leg while climbing into the truck), and some other flicks. Always makes me yell at the screen, "oh c'mon now!" :mad: At least have the zombie slide the pants leg up enough to expose flesh before the chomp.

While I'm still on a rant (and bored as hell at work), in the scene when Daryl knocks on the window of the store to draw any walkers inside to the front, what's-his-name displays everything NOT to do with a loaded shotgun short of putting the barrel in one's mouth and then doing some Irish step dancing. He sits next to Daryl, shotgun on his lap and barrel pointed at Daryl's side. Safety on or not, one in the chamber or no, it's a great way to accidently kill your team.

I agree with both. My girlfriend is overly bothered by the biting through jeans. I saw the shotgun thing as well. If someone flagged me with a barrel like that a heated exchange would take place.

Andy

14-Oct-2013, 08:24 PM

Ob the whole not a bad episode, i enjoyed it :)

That was my take too, but the WHAT that he died of has me puzzled, coupled with how the whole thing was staged: "I'm happy & fine!-uh, I don't feel well-yikes I'm puking blood-aaaand, I'm dead!" what the hell did the the guy catch, super black plague with optional ninja stealth mode? Not a major gripe, but it was a little weird/jarring for me. :|

I actually figured he was just sick with some random fever and blacked out in the shower and smashed his face on the floor. That would kill him wouldnt it?

His face was a bloody mess when he reanimated..

Intentionally not reading TWD comics so as to be surprised as the storyline unfolds, but I think this season will be kickass for sure.

I wouldnt worry about that man honestly. The comic storyline and the TV story splinter off in different directions early in season 1. They havnt really ever really met, the TV show has few homages and similarities but on the whole, they are different stories you can enjoy without them spoiling each other.

MoonSylver

14-Oct-2013, 09:37 PM

Well, I could guess...

That this leads into the big change up in threat that has been discussed/alluded to for this season.

So it could be garden variety disease or a new delivery mechanic/vector for the undead plague that acts like a bite. After all, maybe this kid was one of a few people using that particular shower area (which they made a point of showing at least twice, iirc)? Who knows what's in the cistern it's drawing from.

Ah. Hm. I'd dodged all the press, promos, etc, so I hadn't heard that.

Ob the whole not a bad episode, i enjoyed it :)

I actually figured he was just sick with some random fever and blacked out in the shower and smashed his face on the floor. That would kill him wouldnt it?

His face was a bloody mess when he reanimated..

Maybe...I can buy that. Even if that is the case, what really puzzles me is what strikes so fast you go from perfectly healthy to dead in less than a day? :stunned:
I'm inclined to think along the lines like A&8's, something new we've never seen before? Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense IMO...:confused:

rongravy

14-Oct-2013, 10:22 PM

Great show. Loved all the zombies. I was also glad Beth didn't break out into song again. Heartless bitch...
And someone PLEASE tell them to cut it with Daryl's superhip hairdo thang he's got going on?
Trying to look too much like Leon.
A couple things: I thought that chick was a cannibal, too, and that Rick was walking into a trap. On Talking Dead they said it was some dood's head in the bag, I'd thought it was a zombie baby.
And the Harry Potter kid: I figure someone figured out a way to poison some stuff to infect people. That medic black dood was looking sketchy the whole episode. I'm getting bad juju off of him.
I also think the kid completely cracked his head during the shower fall. Hope they have someone pulling night time guard duty...

zombieparanoia

14-Oct-2013, 11:32 PM

Overall I liked the episode. Thought it was nice to see Daryl getting some recognition, as well as him and carol having a bit of playful banter. The big spot run was generally good. Nice to see Beth is/was getting some. The crazy lady in the woods was well done but IMO the ending a bit telegraphed. Rick having to be told to take his gun seemed to underscore his continuing poor judgement.

Criticisms:
I thought the redshirts were too obvious. "Hi, I'm a new character, I'll be coming along on the dangerous supply mission, I sure hope I get back safe, I'm banging beth, so I've got a lot to live for" and Discount Napoleon Dynamite were tagged for death as soon as they came on screen IMO.
A little too much emphasis on "See? We can have more than one black male in the show" and his alcohol problem, although I wonder why he was perusing the wine section, guess he's a classy alcoholic. It just felt too early for a new character to have backstory like I'm supposed to give a shit about them already.
Clearly alky former army medic quota breaker is going to turn out to be bad. Just the way they shoot him tells me this.
I hoped they would have dealt with the walkers in the store better. even with the surprise element it would have been nice to see them moving more like when they first took the prison, like a team that had been working smoothly together for a while. half a dozen walkers surprise them and everybody shits their pants.
They didn't seem to check/take anything from the military encampment outside the store, that bugs me when they walk right past what are clearly usable supplies. MREs, military medical supplies and weapons come to mind. It's like when a good guy escapes and kills a bad guy but doesn't take his gun.
More and better hand weapon usage, I don't expect Jet Li but to see people (other than michonne) competently using hand weapons would be nice.

The fences. A lot of things bother me about how they handle the walkers at the fences. Too small a crew for the number of walkers, no pileup of walker bodies? (Do a 300 and build a wall people), they seem to use improvised items, a cane with a sharpened tip, a knife, a piece of rebar instead of things which keep them back from the fence a bit. They seem to move slow, like they kill one and go "yeah, killed one" and then look around and evaluate for the next one. By this time I'd think the fence duty would be just punching holes. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab. Like a slaughter house worker. People get jaded to incredibly disgusting work surprisingly quickly.

Harleydude666

14-Oct-2013, 11:32 PM

In reality, everyone would be more like Michonne. Closed off and distant, reluctant to get close to others, unwilling to share emotional experiences. Undoubtedly. They'd all have severe PTSD. It's the minds natural survival mechanism. And you don't get through it until you realize and admit that you have it and that it's negatively effecting your life. But that can't happen in the midst of the stress and trauma that creates it. It takes years to be able to even start to recover, and that's only possible once you're completely removed from that environment. It doesn't happen after just a little downtime.
The original group would be close with each other because they have a history, and a bond forged from traumatic experiences. They'd be closed off and distant toward the new group members though. They'd still be willing to have sexual partners, but there would be little to no real emotional connection.
Look at the troops that come back from any serious conflict. They have alot of trouble acclimating to normal life. their relationships with their families suffer, they need mental help, they often become alcoholics. This is the natural reaction to being exposed to extreme violence and suffering repeated loss of people you care about.

What we're seeing in the show is fiction, based more on what sounds good in theory, in the writers room. It's totally disconnected from the reality of human nature.
When you say-
This comes much later, in the late stages of recovery. Once the stressful environment has completely gone. Once you have a chance to reflect on your mental state, and start to put the past behind you.
This doesn't happen when the same threat is continuously building up less than 100 yards from where you sleep.
You're right though that because we love the show, and the story, we expect more than this. That's why I take issue with this aspect.

But this doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the episode, or that I don't look forward to the next. It just means I have to scale back my expectations.
But at the same time, discussion in the threads would be pretty boring if all we said was how much we loved everything.

What I liked alot about the episode is seeing how they've started to focus on survival more. Seeing them go on supply runs is something I've always wanted more of. And NO, I don't expect to see supply run after supply run. But it would be great to see entire episodes dedicated to missions away from the prison, like we had with "Clear", and "18 Miles Out". It builds upon character relationships for them to spend time with each other in stressful situations, working toward a specific goal. And gives us a chance to see the landscape of the world they're in, gives an opportunity to use imagery to tell the story.

Dude, you are way off base here with human nature. First none of us including you has lived through a zombie apocalypse so you can't say how it would be or how it wouldn't be regarding coupling. I didn't go or come back from war as I'm guessing you didn't either. However, I have a young guy who works for me and he saw serious battle in the Middle East and he's totally stable along with a friend of his who I have met. You are trying to speak in volumes regarding this. In real life you would be surprised how people come together under difficult circumstances and these people have been together in close quarters over six months.
Let's face it, if all we saw was raid after raid this show would be a borefest and wouldn't last. It has drama also, and part of drama is how humans relate with one another. If you're a guy in this world you do everything you can to score a piece of ass, this show has explored no differently except that these characters are pretty much forced to forge these relationships because of the world they live in and how close they live together. If you want a regular piece of ass you are forging a relationship and acting lovey dovey if you want to keep it because let's face it, you don't have many prospects to choose from. I found it totally believable and I'm glad they didn't over do it either.

facestabber

15-Oct-2013, 12:43 AM

Harleydude666

15-Oct-2013, 01:33 AM

I mean no offense when I say this but do you follow your employee home? Have you had intimate conversations with his significant other? I have personal experience with PTSD. No accusations on my part here but the home/personal life seems to be the hardest transition. I understand where babomb is coming from. I think he and I are just worried about a soap opera unfolding and we don't want it. I don't doubt that relationships can form in this environment as people can be quite varied. I just felt the delivery was a little forced by showing 3-4 different relationships. Not the end of the world and the show isn't ruined. I just don't want days of our lives with zombies

No offense taken, but we are in a high performance sales career and more time is spent with employees than actual families. 60 to 65 hours weekly so I would say I have a pretty good gauge on him. That's not the point though, not everyone who comes home from war PTSD. Everyone is wired differently.
I don't want "Days of our Lives" either but the difference from TWD than other crap on tv is that even though it's fiction, this show is about how humans are dealing with the apocalypse, with each other and against each other, the zombies are secondary. I think excluding some plot holes the writers are doing a good job portraying the social aspect of it all.

rongravy

15-Oct-2013, 01:36 AM

I've seen mention of Days of Our Lives a few times here, and it harkens me back to the big wedding of Bo and Hope. Them leaving on his motorbike...
Maybe Glen and Maggie's will be as big a deal. I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

babomb

15-Oct-2013, 02:28 AM

Dude, you are way off base here with human nature. First none of us including you has lived through a zombie apocalypse so you can't say how it would be or how it wouldn't be regarding coupling. I didn't go or come back from war as I'm guessing you didn't either. However, I have a young guy who works for me and he saw serious battle in the Middle East and he's totally stable along with a friend of his who I have met. You are trying to speak in volumes regarding this. In real life you would be surprised how people come together under difficult circumstances and these people have been together in close quarters over six months.
Let's face it, if all we saw was raid after raid this show would be a borefest and wouldn't last. It has drama also, and part of drama is how humans relate with one another. If you're a guy in this world you do everything you can to score a piece of ass, this show has explored no differently except that these characters are pretty much forced to forge these relationships because of the world they live in and how close they live together. If you want a regular piece of ass you are forging a relationship and acting lovey dovey if you want to keep it because let's face it, you don't have many prospects to choose from. I found it totally believable and I'm glad they didn't over do it either.
Were you with them during these battles? People who didn't see alot of action there tend to exaggerate the action they did see. Those who did see alot of action are usually very closed lip about it.
Like I said, the original group would be the ones that have a bond forged from tragedy and survival. Not so much with the new members.
As was illustrated in the episode, many of the people there are very recent additions. They haven't established who's been there for how long. And going by the episode title, it's been 30 days since the last "accident". We don't know what that last incident was, but the fact is it's only been 30 days since the last tragedy struck. Trauma is still fresh in their minds.
To say they've all been there for 6 months living in close quarters is not accurate. It's been 6 months since the previous season.

I've also stated in my last post that you quoted that I don't expect or want to see them going on raid after raid. Reread my last post for my exact words on that subject.
All I'm really saying is that since the drama is not going away anytime soon, they could at least make it more fun and more realistic to the situation. Rather than making it totally unrealistic, and worse, making it irrelevant.

You were impressed by the writers portrayal of the situation, that's totally cool. I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, I'm just expressing my own concerns regarding the writing. There's no need to take personal offense

With Maggie's pregnancy scare, I guess Glenn ran out of his supply of eleven condoms. ;)

Glen has to learn to fight the urge for Maggies pleasure. As I explained to my girlfriend as the pregnancy issue unfolded....Honey in that world the choice is narrowed to your mouth or ass to which she agreed. Last thing I want in that world is to care for a baby. And I much prefer Maggie in her ass kicking role than playing mom to be.:D:D:p
Agreed. Putting Maggie in the role of mom-to-be is one step away from killing her off.

Moon Knight

15-Oct-2013, 02:35 AM

babomb

15-Oct-2013, 02:58 AM

I'm sure he died from a disease. He had blood coming from his eyes; the same kind of eye effect that was displayed on that fence walker that Rick kept staring at. Also, a walker in the comic con trailer seen walking past a doorway during a chase scene had the same bloody, hollowed out eyes. I sense a connection. There's gotta be a connection there. I think there's a connection between the deer that Daryl killed that the kid was thanking him for, and the pig, and the dead kid, and the bleeding eyes. The virus is mutating.

Harleydude666

15-Oct-2013, 03:26 AM

Were you with them during these battles? People who didn't see alot of action there tend to exaggerate the action they did see. Those who did see alot of action are usually very closed lip about it.
Like I said, the original group would be the ones that have a bond forged from tragedy and survival. Not so much with the new members.
As was illustrated in the episode, many of the people there are very recent additions. They haven't established who's been there for how long. And going by the episode title, it's been 30 days since the last "accident". We don't know what that last incident was, but the fact is it's only been 30 days since the last tragedy struck. Trauma is still fresh in their minds.
To say they've all been there for 6 months living in close quarters is not accurate. It's been 6 months since the previous season.

I've also stated in my last post that you quoted that I don't expect or want to see them going on raid after raid. Reread my last post for my exact words on that subject.
All I'm really saying is that since the drama is not going away anytime soon, they could at least make it more fun and more realistic to the situation. Rather than making it totally unrealistic, and worse, making it irrelevant.

You were impressed by the writers portrayal of the situation, that's totally cool. I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, I'm just expressing my own concerns regarding the writing. There's no need to take personal offense

:D:D:p
Agreed. Putting Maggie in the role of mom-to-be is one step away from killing her off.

Dude, no offense to you but I'm not gonna sit here and explain why this particular person is not suffering from PTSD because I don't have to, known him for over 20 years since he was a kid and I'm very prominent in his life, close with his parents and know his girlfriend well. Please don't discredit what I know about this person to try and make your point.
However with that said, I said agree to disagree but you keep avoiding the fact that they have been there for over six months together. Karen and Tyreese came from Woodbury together and Gimple said himself it's been about 7 months of timeline. I'm going with what the creative Producer said himself.
Anyway, humans are social human beings, they are going to find one another in tragedy, history has proved that. If you don't like that aspect of it, I get it, but the fact is the writers are not going to ignore it because it happens in real life and they also need us to care about them so they can unexpectedly waste them by becoming zombie fodder

babomb

15-Oct-2013, 04:14 AM

Dude, no offense to you but I'm not gonna sit here and explain why this particular person is not suffering from PTSD because I don't have to, known him for over 20 years since he was a kid and I'm very prominent in his life, close with his parents and know his girlfriend well. Please don't discredit what I know about this person to try and make your point.
However with that said, I said agree to disagree but you keep avoiding the fact that they have been there for over six months together. Karen and Tyreese came from Woodbury together and Gimple said himself it's been about 7 months of timeline. I'm going with what the creative Producer said himself.
Anyway, humans are social human beings, they are going to find one another in tragedy, history has proved that. If you don't like that aspect of it, I get it, but the fact is the writers are not going to ignore it because it happens in real life and they also need us to care about them so they can unexpectedly waste them by becoming zombie fodder That's my point. It's hard to care about them when the writing is so stereotypical and unrealistic when it comes to that aspect. I like that aspect, and I think it's necessary, I just don't like how they're doing it. It could be so much better. And this is what we do here, we discuss things like this. Would you prefer everyone chimes in and just says "great episode, loved it"? What fun would that be?
I'm not avoiding the fact that they've been there for 6-7 months. I'm saying that isn't the ultimate deciding factor in how they'd act. They haven't been sitting there playing checkers for 6 months, reminiscing. The threat hasn't passed, it's gotten worse. They're still in survival mode. At least they should be.

BillyRay

15-Oct-2013, 05:02 AM

Daryl licked his fingers before shaking Patrick's hand. Nice knowin' you, Daryl...

zomtom

15-Oct-2013, 05:17 AM

Daryl licked his fingers before shaking Patrick's hand. Nice knowin' you, Daryl...

It's possible Daryl could be a carrier. I caught that as well. It seemed odd, Daryl is shown licking his fingers, then shaking hands with Patrick and shortly after, Patrick is a bloody mess. If Daryl were a carrier, he wouldn't necessarily come down with the disease. One thing is for sure, there has got to be a connection to Violet the pig's death, the dying boar in the woods, and the bloody eyed zombie at the fence. I bet whoever dies of this new virus is going to come back with those bloody eyes. It sure looked like Patrick did.

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 07:31 AM

It's possible Daryl could be a carrier. I caught that as well. It seemed odd, Daryl is shown licking his fingers, then shaking hands with Patrick and shortly after, Patrick is a bloody mess. If Daryl were a carrier, he wouldn't necessarily come down with the disease. One thing is for sure, there has got to be a connection to Violet the pig's death, the dying boar in the woods, and the bloody eyed zombie at the fence. I bet whoever dies of this new virus is going to come back with those bloody eyes. It sure looked like Patrick did.

I hadn't associated that bloody eyed zombie with Patrick! Nice one!!!

I enjoyed the episode!

My only annoyances were:-
1) Crazy lady - Surviving in a tent, all alone? Really? Couple of walkers come along while she's sleep! Finished!
2) Shopping center - So they only start falling through the ceiling when it's convenient? They've been up there wondering around for X months, but only walk over weak spots when the script requires? Hmmm!
3) And as others have said, Rick walking around without a gun? Didn't quite buy that.

But as I said, enjoyed it and can't wait to see what putting crazy contact lenses in overheating kids eyes! As people have said, we have dead pigs and odd looking zombies at the fence! Hmm!

Mr. Clean

15-Oct-2013, 08:07 AM

The zombies raining through the roof was amazing!

Woman leading Rick through the forest and committing suicide after the failed attempt to kill him was weak and very much annoying.

I hope the Glenn and Maggie relationship receives a little less spot light.

My thoughts...

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 08:42 AM

The zombies raining through the roof was amazing!
Agreed, but again, I did wonder why the roof only started giving way the precise moment they were in the store, and not the X months before, or afterwards... The zombies were all up there wandering around before hand...

MinionZombie

15-Oct-2013, 09:45 AM

Agreed, but again, I did wonder why the roof only started giving way the precise moment they were in the store, and not the X months before, or afterwards... The zombies were all up there wandering around before hand...

Not necessarily, as we've seen walkers just standing around still before - e.g. in 3x01 with the ones in the shop, they're just stood around doing absolutely nothing as there's nothing for them to do (no distractions), and being up on the roof they're unlikely to see anything going on down at ground level, so they'll have moved around a little bit, but then just found a spot and stopped moving entirely ... until Bob knocked over the booze shelf (I take it that the wood was rotten because of the leaking roof - the drip, drip, drip) ... which is another thing, the roof has probably been rotting and weakening for quite some time, but without any reason to move, the walkers didn't tread on any of the dangerous patches - but once there's food for them down there, it's all-out chaos.

I loved that scene.

Good spot lads on the bloody eyes on Patrick and the walker at the fence - indeed, there was another walker (a female one) in the CC trailer with the same sort of eyes - so I think this is something new. I wonder if there's a difference in immunity between the original team prison, and the new blood Woodburyites. The latter were molly coddled for a long time in very clean and civil conditions, whereas Team Prison were scratching around in the muck for months on end.

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 10:09 AM

Not necessarily, as we've seen walkers just standing around still before - e.g. in 3x01 with the ones in the shop, they're just stood around doing absolutely nothing as there's nothing for them to do (no distractions), and being up on the roof they're unlikely to see anything going on down at ground level, so they'll have moved around a little bit, but then just found a spot and stopped moving entirely ... until Bob knocked over the booze shelf (I take it that the wood was rotten because of the leaking roof - the drip, drip, drip) ... which is another thing, the roof has probably been rotting and weakening for quite some time, but without any reason to move, the walkers didn't tread on any of the dangerous patches - but once there's food for them down there, it's all-out chaos.
Fair shout... but... There's a boombox remember playing music to entice all the zombies away, so why aren't all the roof zombies trying to get to it?

Boooya!

MinionZombie

15-Oct-2013, 10:13 AM

Fair shout... but... There's a boombox remember playing music to entice all the zombies away, so why aren't all the roof zombies trying to get to it?

Boooya!

They might have learned that they can't get off the roof.

The boom box was fairly faint at the Big Spot entrance, and you'll see that the fence was cut open, so they quite possibly led them away personally to begin with, in the direction of the boom box, and then let the walkers end up at the rave themselves while the humans snuck away.

Boooya back atcha! :D

Harleydude666

15-Oct-2013, 11:18 AM

That's my point. It's hard to care about them when the writing is so stereotypical and unrealistic when it comes to that aspect. I like that aspect, and I think it's necessary, I just don't like how they're doing it. It could be so much better. And this is what we do here, we discuss things like this. Would you prefer everyone chimes in and just says "great episode, loved it"? What fun would that be?
I'm not avoiding the fact that they've been there for 6-7 months. I'm saying that isn't the ultimate deciding factor in how they'd act. They haven't been sitting there playing checkers for 6 months, reminiscing. The threat hasn't passed, it's gotten worse. They're still in survival mode. At least they should be.

I'm not asking you to say "great episode, loved it", I know we all have different opinions that's why I'm arguing mine, I just don't agree with your's LOL
:elol::elol:

Andy

15-Oct-2013, 12:17 PM

They might have learned that they can't get off the roof.

So where were they trying to go when they heard the shelves collapse?

Boooya! :D

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 12:23 PM

They might have learned that they can't get off the roof.

The boom box was fairly faint at the Big Spot entrance, and you'll see that the fence was cut open, so they quite possibly led them away personally to begin with, in the direction of the boom box, and then let the walkers end up at the rave themselves while the humans snuck away.

Boooya back atcha! :D

But the problem is, the suggestion is they've basically been standing still for weeks/months, so as to not fall through the weak parts of the roof? And they only moved when the raiders made a noise:-
1) The boombox didn't make them move?
2) The thumping on the window, which drew the ones from inside, didn't make them?
3) "quite possibly led them away personally to begin with" didn't make them move either?

And, I'd need to see it again, but I'll swear the shot of the roof shows them ambling around!?

facestabber

15-Oct-2013, 12:29 PM

Zombies through the roof was a convenience for the show plain and simple. Nicotero and co had to come up with a 'new' gag/zombie assault that hadn't been seen before. I'm with Neil on this one. But this is one item I have chosen to suspend belief and just accept.

And I wonder if a governor loyalist is inside the prison. Or maybe Milton's past experiments were on the Woodbury people and are now presenting themselves?

AcesandEights

15-Oct-2013, 02:35 PM

One thing is for sure, there has got to be a connection to Violet the pig's death, the dying boar in the woods...

Aw, crap...was the boar in the forest not another snared animal? If not, I missed that.

I think the big question is how many, if any, of these are red herrings?

- - - Updated - - -

That's my point. It's hard to care about them when the writing is so stereotypical and unrealistic when it comes to that aspect. I like that aspect, and I think it's necessary, I just don't like how they're doing it. It could be so much better.

I'm thinking this wasn't hinted at too heavily in the first episode because they either don't globally take those sorts of things into account when writing a single episode (I guess that could be a lack of producer oversight/show running), or they just don't want to tip their hand too much about how damaged some, mot or all people are and leave it as supposedly "bubbling just under the surface" status for episodes which I can only hope will further address how emotionally damaged and numb people have become.

Rick seems suitably damaged, if that makes people feel better, even if it's not in a way that rah-rah way survivalist fans want to see. I also feel that Michonne has always seemed suitably disconnected in the comics and reasonably so in the TV show for someone who lived through her circumstances.

You also have to realize the circumstances of the story aren't always going to adhere directly to our individual philosophies on how people manage under masses of stress. Some people are more hopeful and other more pessimistic about the human condition and fragility of the human mind and spirit.

- - - Updated - - -

Zombies through the roof was a convenience for the show plain and simple. Nicotero and co had to come up with a 'new' gag/zombie assault that hadn't been seen before. I'm with Neil on this one. But this is one item I have chosen to suspend belief and just accept.

I actually loved it. I just chalk it up to the walkers not hearing the boombox and then their accelerated, excited movement and grouping up weakening the roof. The big mistake was not having more fall through in that 1st portion of the roof that gave way, but that doesn't even qualify as a quibble really.

shootemindehead

15-Oct-2013, 02:50 PM

Not a bad start, but not without flaws either, most of which have been mentioned.

I liked the Rick'n'mad girl sideline, although as soon as I heard her Cork accent, I knew she was trouble. :p It ended a bit badly though. I think Rick should have killed her, not herself. And yeh the tent? Fu*k that. But, I didn't coincide with a scene in 'The Walking Dead' game. So I think that's why it's there.

And Woody Allen dying in the shower with super Ebola like symptoms? Hmmmm. I REALLY hope they aren't going to do a virus mutation thing, that will be a dumb idea. Almost as dumb as the stupid "zombie super smell" thing they tried.

Anyway, roll on next week.

Oh, and I loved the gore for this episode. The zombie hanging by his intestines as he fell through the roof. A1 that...

MinionZombie

15-Oct-2013, 04:53 PM

To be fair, Clara (the crazy lady, IIRC) does have an undead head in a burlap sack - so, similar to Michonne, it might act as camoflage. Stay quiet inside your tent if any come by and you're grand ... or if there's only one or two, snuff them out and duck back in ... or climb a tree ... or maybe she just smells so bad from not washing that not even the walkers want to sink their gnashers into her. :p

As for biting through clothing ... it's a tricky thing ... their teeth will be sharper and broken (from munching into bone by accident when feasting). Indeed, one of my own teeth has a really sharp corner on it (sharp enough that I accidentally cut my lip open on it one time), so factoring in walkers' messed up chompers with their lack of pain, they'll just dig in ... tearing through denim though? Hmmm ... I don't really mind though, it's common in all zombie media.

This reminds me of talk about 2x11 though - specifically the walker that tore open Dale's stomach. It was explained afterwards somewhere that the walker (and older/mankier walkers in general) have sharp fingers because the flesh has torn off/decayed away and there is exposed bone in place ... so they've got ten puncturing devices to dig into you with. :elol:

Neil - again, the boom box was very faint at the Big Spot, I theorise they drew them away (they said the inside of the compound was infested - so they cut open the fence and led them in the direction of the boom box, then ran off quietly and let the group gather by the boom box, which would be much louder and nearer now that they'd been lured away.

I'd also imagine their hearing isn't tip-top, so you can sneak around okay, and even knocking on the window wouldn't carry up enough from under that veranda/overlap sheltered area (but would carry through at least the nearest part of the store) ... so the walkers on the roof wouldn't hear that.

A big shelf full of heavy booze bottles on the other hand with Bob screaming for help? That's much louder, and I get the impression that the roof is already compromised - so there's already some holes in there to let BIG LOUD NOISES through for the walkers on top to hear.

That's explanation enough in my mind - the sequence was awesome. :cool::):cool:

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 05:14 PM

Neil - again, the boom box was very faint at the Big Spot, I theorise they drew them away (they said the inside of the compound was infested - so they cut open the fence and led them in the direction of the boom box, then ran off quietly and let the group gather by the boom box, which would be much louder and nearer now that they'd been lured away.

I'd also imagine their hearing isn't tip-top, so you can sneak around okay, and even knocking on the window wouldn't carry up enough from under that veranda/overlap sheltered area (but would carry through at least the nearest part of the store) ... so the walkers on the roof wouldn't hear that.
Just watched... On the shot of the roof... there are walkers all over the roof... everywhere... and not one is standing still... They're all wandering around.

So my spidy-sense tingling is justified... The zombies have been walking over the roof for weeks/months... and only when the party arrive do they all start to drop through?

Should have shown them confined somewhere on the roof by a barricade (wood/wire) or something, which when they hear the noise it riles them up such that two/three push through a week/rotten spot to allow them onto the rest of the roof (which is now rotten)... Done...

Andy

15-Oct-2013, 05:39 PM

Ive just rewatched this episode and when harry potter reanimates in the shower, there is no blood coming from his eyes.

Its all over his nose and mouth but his eyes are pretty clean. I think you guys are way off, im sticking with my theory that he blacked out and smashed his face off the floor.

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/andy/Capture.JPG

AcesandEights

15-Oct-2013, 06:43 PM

Just watched... On the shot of the roof... there are walkers all over the roof... everywhere... and not one is standing still... They're all wandering around.

Did they show all the zeds super spread out moments before they start falling through the ceiling?

I know when you initially glimpse the roof they're not all concentrated on the same section of the roof and doing MZ's patented Hinzman Hobble™, because they just heard a boom crash opera beneath their feet, so it makes more sense that they congregate more closer together when they hear the crash down below and that, paired with their more excited movement, would be what causes the roof to start to give way. Once a large piece goes, the rest starts to weaken and more zeds fall through in seemingly random spots.

Mr. Clean

15-Oct-2013, 06:57 PM

So my spidy-sense tingling is justified... The zombies have been walking over the roof for weeks/months... and only when the party arrive do they all start to drop through?

In order to bring logic to this mystery....I believe we must turn to board games for the answer.

http://images.funagain.com/cover/huge/01733.jpg

I believe that Tissue and Marbles can explain this....Let's say the roof is like tissue paper....the chopper and zombies are the marbles. You have your marbles spread out. Now, there's no way to add more zombies so please allow me to slightly deviate from the board game and throw toothpicks into the mix. You poke holes in the tissue with the toothpicks to simulate zombies falling through the roof....and poof...the roof begins to progressively get weaker with each zombie falling through....before you know it...the whole damn place comes down on your head because you don't just have itty bitty zombie marbles on your tissue paper....you have a whopper chopper up there too!

http://www.gotallyourmarbles.com/interchangeable_jewelry/Images/marble-sizes.jpg

Questions?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/files/2011/12/boobsdontworkthatway.gif

AcesandEights

15-Oct-2013, 07:17 PM

^Exactly what Mr. Clean says, he just illustrated in a better fashion than I could ever hope to.

Neil

15-Oct-2013, 08:05 PM

Ive just rewatched this episode and when harry potter reanimates in the shower, there is no blood coming from his eyes.

Its all over his nose and mouth but his eyes are pretty clean. I think you guys are way off, im sticking with my theory that he blacked out and smashed his face off the floor.
Oh! Well then, we're in f***ing lame-arse-stupid-contact-lenses-for-no-reason-other-than-to-show-he's-a-zombie territory then? Episode 2 will start with his raptor roars then :(

babomb

15-Oct-2013, 09:26 PM

Aw, crap...was the boar in the forest not another snared animal? If not, I missed that.

I think the big question is how many, if any, of these are red herrings?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm thinking this wasn't hinted at too heavily in the first episode because they either don't globally take those sorts of things into account when writing a single episode (I guess that could be a lack of producer oversight/show running), or they just don't want to tip their hand too much about how damaged some, mot or all people are and leave it as supposedly "bubbling just under the surface" status for episodes which I can only hope will further address how emotionally damaged and numb people have become.

Rick seems suitably damaged, if that makes people feel better, even if it's not in a way that rah-rah way survivalist fans want to see. I also feel that Michonne has always seemed suitably disconnected in the comics and reasonably so in the TV show for someone who lived through her circumstances.

You also have to realize the circumstances of the story aren't always going to adhere directly to our individual philosophies on how people manage under masses of stress. Some people are more hopeful and other more pessimistic about the human condition and fragility of the human mind and spirit. That's my theory. They don't globally take into account the dynamics of everything. They write what sounds good, and don't feel like they have to adhere to realism. It's easier to just write in some sappy drama than it is to write it realistically. After all, most people will never think twice about it. They'll be mesmerized by the walker makeup and action sequences.
Unfortunately for me, I pay attention to small details.

My gripe is that in that situation you really don't have the opportunity to think about things like the fragility of the human mind and spirit. You're in the moment, in a stressful environment with walkers building up outside. You're out there plunging pointy objects through the heads of walkers that were once people. That itself would have a huge impact on your state of mind.

The only way to see walkers as monsters instead of humans, and then continuously plunge objects through their eyes and heads is to disassociate yourself from your emotions. Because the experience of killing a walker is no different than killing a human. The only thing that sets it apart is that you'd have to close off your emotional state to be able to see them as less than human. But then you go in the prison and it's all lovey dovey, snuggles and kisses and unicorns. When you disassociate from your emotions it effects every aspect of your life. It's not a selective process.
It's not like outside while killing walkers you're cut off and unemotional like a psychopath, but when you go back into the prison you're now a mentally healthy person. That's not how it works.

I actually loved it. I just chalk it up to the walkers not hearing the boombox and then their accelerated, excited movement and grouping up weakening the roof. The big mistake was not having more fall through in that 1st portion of the roof that gave way, but that doesn't even qualify as a quibble really. It did look like they were spread out very well. It would've worked better if they had made them fall through the roof only where the chopper was, above the liquor section. Instead they had them falling through small sections all over the roof.. But if they did it realistically, the ever so suspenseful moment where the chopper is about to fall on Daryl while he's standing on top of the cases of IPA and the walkers are surrounding him, just swiping at his feet, well, this wouldn't hold up under a writing style based on realism.

There's just no continuity of realism. There's some parts they get right, and others that use the same old shitty hollywood logic. They need to come out of that hollywood bubble, or hire some advisers with the ability to put themselves in the moment.

MoonSylver

15-Oct-2013, 09:33 PM

It's possible Daryl could be a carrier. I caught that as well. It seemed odd, Daryl is shown licking his fingers, then shaking hands with Patrick and shortly after, Patrick is a bloody mess. If Daryl were a carrier, he wouldn't necessarily come down with the disease. One thing is for sure, there has got to be a connection to Violet the pig's death, the dying boar in the woods, and the bloody eyed zombie at the fence. I bet whoever dies of this new virus is going to come back with those bloody eyes. It sure looked like Patrick did.

Bingo. Somone pointed out the boar to me today. I hadn't attached significance to it, because I thought it was snared, but when pointed out, makes sense. Two different swine kealed over dead? Too much coincedence. We know there are diseases communicable from swine to human. And now Bloody Eyes? :eek:

In order to bring logic to this mystery....I believe we must turn to board games for the answer.

MC for the win. Very elegantly stated. :)

bassman

15-Oct-2013, 09:55 PM

I think it's a very severe case of pink eye, but that's just me....

rongravy

15-Oct-2013, 10:08 PM

I think it's a very severe case of pink eye, but that's just me....

Now we just need to find out who farted on his pillow...

Saurian

15-Oct-2013, 10:18 PM

I think the kid getting sick has to do with the pigs. Some kind of mutated swine flu that kills and then of course he reanimates. I dont think its any harder then that. They mention in the trailers and such that they have do deal with a threat from the inside and that imo is disease. All the feeding at the fence,etc is prob just to trick us into thinking it is more.

Wyldwraith

15-Oct-2013, 10:34 PM

I'm betting something like Anthrax personally,
Anthrax can go from healthy-seeming to exuding bodily fluids at all orifices in something like 24-30hrs, and thats in our world of great hygiene, FDA-inspected food, antibiotics and antiseptics so readily available we use them on paper cuts etc. These people are GROWING FOOD on ground they've splashed WALKER BRAINS ON. Beyond that, they're piling terminated Walkers hip-deep at the fencelines, and any NUMBER of really nasty diseases can go quasi-airborne if the volume of decaying corpses is sufficiently dense. By quasi-airborne I mean there's enough dead Walkers at the fenceline that dust-like bits of them could be getting blown into a random airway of someone alive now and then...ESPECIALLY one of the kids who were loitering within spitting distance of numerous Walkers.

Or what about all the dead flesh that's being cheese-grated off the Walkers as a) They press and claw at the fence under their own power, and b) Are PRESSED AGAINST the fence by Walkers coming up from behind. When we were talking 2 Walkers here, 3 Walkers there, no big deal. The way Carol was talking "We had another major buildup overnight, they're grouping around Towers 3 and 4 again. It hasn't been THIS BAD since *last month*....." having dozens upon dozens of Walkers pushing and clawing at those fences day in, day out seems to be their new norm. Just how would scraped-off and continuing-to-decay tissue from the Walkers' hands and faces would it take for the volume of contaminated tissue to hit "critical mass" and become a contagion-threat as the wind shifts to blow through the fence and into the prison?

Or, like someone else said, theres absolute no telling what level of sanitation the water supply is in. That prison was at one point LOADED with Walkers and plain old dead bodies. One chunk of rotting flesh pressed up against a leaky water line somewhere and you could have any number of truly vile infectious agents in the water.

Given how uncoordinated Patrick-the-Harry-Potter was as he entered the shower area, how sweaty and how desperate he was to spray himself with water, I think we can all agree that WHATEVER the source of his illness, that kid was running a MASSIVE fever. Like cook-the-brain 106-degree fever. Petechial(sp?) (broken blood-vessels in the eyes) bleeding can also be a symptom of intense fever. Maybe some of us are looking at this backward:

Instead of the bloody-eyed Walker being the SOURCE of the disease that brought down Patrick, maybe he was also a VICTIM of said disease, who died of it and reanimated as Patrick did? Those blood-vessels didn't spurt blood into the whites of his eyes post-mortem after all.

I seriously HOPE they aren't going in some cheesy "The Walker Contagion is now airborne" direction. That would make any survival outside a NORAD-type bunker a very limited/unbelievable proposition, and make it too easy to bring down characters. A regular, good-old-fashioned lack of 21st-century hygienic amenities-caused epidemic is FAR more likely than an EXTREMELY SPECIALIZED contagion like the "Walker Microbe" suddenly a) Jumping the species barrier to bring down a pig, even if pigs and humans ARE susceptible to many of the same diseases, but more importantly b) Mutating so dramatically as to become completely airborne...especially now that living human hosts to serve as incubatory-intermediaries are so incredibly rare. If it was going to go airborne it would've happened when there were still 5.8 billion or so people left...NOT 50 million or so scattered across who knows how many continents and now separated by innumerable geographic barriers.

Anthrax, Cholera...even a bad Staff Infection...all more likely. Whatever the cause though, there's a Walker in a cellblock full of sleeping people. That's a recipe for quite a few fatalities right there.

Edit/Note: Also, given Patrick's rapid reanimation...he is likely STILL contagious with whatever-it-was that killed him, assuming it wasn't the "Walker Microbe"...so even if say, he lunges at someone, they grapple and his intended victim flings Walker-Patrick off him and then terminates him/it with a blow/shot to the head...they've just been breathing air pushed in their face by potentially infection-filled lungs due to Walker-moaning, have their hands covered in contagious body-sweat from fevered Patrick, though his impromptu shower might have mitigated some of that...or the blood he's dripping as he totters towards his first victim...all potential mediums for conventional microbes to be passed to another person.

Now THERE'S a scary thought. Cholera or Anthrax-contaminated Walkers. Forget being bitten, hope you brought a respirator to that melee struggle.

Ragnarr

16-Oct-2013, 12:22 AM

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow:

facestabber

16-Oct-2013, 01:31 AM

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow:

HAHAHA I completely missed that. Hershel has been working on people so long I forgot his roots

babomb

16-Oct-2013, 03:16 AM

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow: Let's take some bets on whether or not it ever happens!!??

It's strange looking at the thread post/view counts. This thread has 74 replies but 1,142 views. Who are all these people with nothing to add??
Speak up strangers!!

sandrock74

16-Oct-2013, 03:36 AM

About the zombies being fed at the fences thing: my money is on one of the kids that Carl admonished for naming said zombies. The dumb kid (or kids) probably thinks of the zombies as pets or something.

Again, this is just speculation on my part from stuff we've seen in commercials and such.

Neil

16-Oct-2013, 10:02 AM

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow:

LOL! Nice!

MinionZombie

16-Oct-2013, 10:30 AM

Oh! Well then, we're in f***ing lame-arse-stupid-contact-lenses-for-no-reason-other-than-to-show-he's-a-zombie territory then? Episode 2 will start with his raptor roars then :(

Erm - ALL actors who play walkers have contact lenses - remember when Amy reanimated in season one? You could argue they overdid it a tad with Patrick, but we also don't know the full thing with this new threat - and if it is linked with the walkers that have bleeding eyes, then it'd make sense that the eyes would show considerable damage early on.

Hmmm ... Wyld's theory about possibly being to do with some sort of chemical weapon is interesting. Just when you've got enough to deal with, you've now got walkers that are doubly dangerous from an infection standpoint.

^Exactly what Mr. Clean says, he just illustrated in a better fashion than I could ever hope to.

Indeed! Mr Clean found the nail and hit it right on the head with a sledgehammer - case closed, I'd say. :)

I think it's a very severe case of pink eye, but that's just me....

Piiiink eyyyyyye!

Where's that Worcestershire Sauce?

I think the kid getting sick has to do with the pigs. Some kind of mutated swine flu that kills and then of course he reanimates. I dont think its any harder then that. They mention in the trailers and such that they have do deal with a threat from the inside and that imo is disease. All the feeding at the fence,etc is prob just to trick us into thinking it is more.

I think it's gonna be two things - this infection problem, but I'm also thinking from some lines of dialogue in the trailer, that there's going to be a bad person on the inside who's messed up in the head and has finally snapped ... ... for now at least, going on episode titles, I think they'll be focusing on this new biological threat, but I am thinking we might see a problem arise with a bad person on the inside.

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow:

:lol:

True ... although I'm assuming that Hershel looked at it before the events of 4x01 and deemed there was nothing they could do but wait ... although they should have written a little bit in, just a few words, to suggest that. Or maybe Hershel doesn't give a shit about bacon these days? MADNESS! :p

Neil

16-Oct-2013, 11:12 AM

Erm - ALL actors who play walkers have contact lenses - remember when Amy reanimated in season one? You could argue they overdid it a tad with Patrick, but we also don't know the full thing with this new threat - and if it is linked with the walkers that have bleeding eyes, then it'd make sense that the eyes would show considerable damage early on.
Sorry, my flippant remark was due to the suggestion he just slipped over and banged his head and died. In which case he would be falling in line with daft stuff (akin to DOTD04), the moment you die, you get crazy contact eyes, and crazy dino lungs!

If there is indeed some crazy bleeding eye death zombie infection $hit going on, and that's what he has, then I'll permit crazy contacts :)

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe Hershel doesn't give a shit about bacon these days?

You'll make LouCipherr cry! Careful!

Publius

16-Oct-2013, 11:31 AM

The only way to see walkers as monsters instead of humans, and then continuously plunge objects through their eyes and heads is to disassociate yourself from your emotions. Because the experience of killing a walker is no different than killing a human. The only thing that sets it apart is that you'd have to close off your emotional state to be able to see them as less than human. But then you go in the prison and it's all lovey dovey, snuggles and kisses and unicorns. When you disassociate from your emotions it effects every aspect of your life. It's not a selective process.

It's not like outside while killing walkers you're cut off and unemotional like a psychopath, but when you go back into the prison you're now a mentally healthy person. That's not how it works.

I disagree. History shows that the human mind can engage in a heck of a lot of selectivity. You can be a Crusader and turn from spitting Saracen infants on your lance during a brutal siege to writing courtly love poetry about a fair lady back home. You can be a slave trader who stacks Africans like cordwood in the hull of his ship but is capable of being perfectly lovey-dovey when he returns to his wife in England. You can be a concentration camp guard in Poland and turn from gassing a bunch of Untermenschen to writing a tender letter to your wife back home in Germany. If humans are capable of those kinds of disassociations, it'd be even easier to turn off your emotions when it comes to zombies while being loving and caring towards a living "significant other." That doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally healthy overall, just that they are able to compartmentalize their emotions.

bassman

16-Oct-2013, 01:36 PM

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? :rockbrow:

While I laughed at this, there are a few things that could have happened....

For one, what is he going to do? Spend his time dissecting a pig that is of basically no interest to the large group? If he did, how much could he really find out? Sure, ruined organs and such, but he doesn't have the proper equipment to get down to the real cause of it all.

For two, maybe I missed it, but does Hershel even know about the pig?

For three, Rick probably doesn't see it as a big deal because it happens. Being a "farm child" of the southern US, I can tell you that sometimes livestock just keels over. You just discard the remains and move on.

krisvds

16-Oct-2013, 02:22 PM

In order to bring logic to this mystery....I believe we must turn to board games for the answer.

Fantastic post mr. C.
But, Thin Ice logistics or no, the very fact that the zombies didn't start pouring through the roof untill the very moment our heroes are screwing it up downstairs was all kinds of convenient. To the point of being silly.
Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book sillyness.

What has got me more worried is the possible inclusion of tons of former Woodbury citizens in the main storyline, thus opening the series up for total 'soapification.'

bassman

16-Oct-2013, 02:38 PM

Fantastic post mr. C.
But, Thin Ice logistics or no, the very fact that the zombies didn't start pouring through the roof untill the very moment our heroes are screwing it up downstairs was all kinds of convenient. To the point of being silly.
Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book silliness.

C'mon! I'm not one to defend the show's weak spots(there are many), but THIS is silly. Perhaps they could have walked into the store and said "oh....these zombies fell through the roof before we got here". Or maybe as they're leaving they see them coming down from the outside of the store windows???

It's a show! It's entertainment! Turn off your over-critical brains and enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, I understand your complaints, but there comes a time to just watch and enjoy. Certain aspects of the show will always seem "off" and it's always fun to discuss them, but the timing of the walkers falling through the roof???

krisvds

16-Oct-2013, 04:45 PM

It's a show! It's entertainment! Turn off your over-critical brains and enjoy it.

Fantastic post mr. C.

Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book sillyness.

Uhm, Okay?

MinionZombie

16-Oct-2013, 04:53 PM

babomb

16-Oct-2013, 06:21 PM

I disagree. History shows that the human mind can engage in a heck of a lot of selectivity. You can be a Crusader and turn from spitting Saracen infants on your lance during a brutal siege to writing courtly love poetry about a fair lady back home. You can be a slave trader who stacks Africans like cordwood in the hull of his ship but is capable of being perfectly lovey-dovey when he returns to his wife in England. You can be a concentration camp guard in Poland and turn from gassing a bunch of Untermenschen to writing a tender letter to your wife back home in Germany. If humans are capable of those kinds of disassociations, it'd be even easier to turn off your emotions when it comes to zombies while being loving and caring towards a living "significant other." That doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally healthy overall, just that they are able to compartmentalize their emotions. That's a different dynamic entirely. For one, the people you talk about are willing participants in these acts. If you can spit an infant on your lance during a brutal siege, you are absolutely a psychopath to begin with and you are completely devoid of emotion. If you write love poetry afterward, you have a completely self serving motivation for doing it. Those men were the ones doing the brutalizing. Whether it's a crusader, a slave trader, or a nazi, these men gravitated toward these roles because they had the mindset to perform such brutal acts.
The group in the show are unwillingly and reluctantly forced to do these things. Prior to the situation they weren't of the mindstate required to perform such acts willingly.
2) Back in those days women weren't "significant others", they were property. Relationships didn't consist of 2 people on equal footing. The man was the boss and the woman did what was expected of her, knowing full well that one wrong word or act could mean being brutalized. Things were entirely different back then as compared to today. The group in the prison isn't made up of brutal warrior types that have performed such evil acts. They're children, housewives, cops, pizza delivery guys, farmers. All from the comforts of the modern world where things like that have never happened to them, they've never been witness to these acts, never been exposed to concentration camps or brutal sieges where infants are spit on lances. And worse, thy've learned to condemn such brutal acts and put them safely in the realm of history.
3) It's not their infants on the lance. They and their families aren't the slaves being stacked like cordwood or gassed in concentration camps. There's a huge difference between being a brutal murderer, and being the family member of one of the victims forced to watch your loved ones murdered.

Finally, I'm not saying that those who suffer from PTSD are totally incapable of feeling love. I'm saying that they're reluctant to engage in and express those types of emotions so openly due to repeated traumatic experiences. It's not only about killing walkers at the fence, it's also about the experiences beforehand that lead them to the fence where they are forced to kill walkers to ensure their own survival.

kidgloves

16-Oct-2013, 07:02 PM

I dunno. Maybe Im weird but I would think seeking comfort in others after having to commit the acts the survivors have had to would be most human beings natural reaction.
PTSD affects people differently. Some crumble under it and aren't willing, or able, to recover. Some recover, learn from it and become stronger. Some flip because its a trigger. The list goes on. It depends on the individual person and their development up until the PTSD occurs.
To say the survivors aren't behaving how they should is beyond ridiculous. Its not that simple

babomb

16-Oct-2013, 09:01 PM

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms are generally grouped into three types: intrusive memories, avoidance and numbing, and increased anxiety or emotional arousal (hyperarousal).

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Flashbacks, or reliving the traumatic event for minutes or even days at a time
Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event

Symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing may include:

Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
Feeling emotionally numb
Avoiding activities you once enjoyed
Hopelessness about the future
Memory problems
Trouble concentrating
Difficulty maintaining close relationships

Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include:

Irritability or anger
Overwhelming guilt or shame
Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much
Trouble sleeping
Being easily startled or frightened
Hearing or seeing things that aren't there

So the only person in the entire group that has so far displayed behavior consistent with PTSD is Rick. Why not Carl? he had to kill his mother after all. Why not Maggie? She was beaten and nearly raped by a psychopath, had family members turn to walkers and then killed in front of her. Delivered a baby that resulted in the death of the mother.
So it makes perfect sense that of all the members of the group, knowing what they've been through, some of them children and teenagers, that only Rick suffers from PTSD? What makes his trauma so much worse? he lost his wife. So did Herschel, Carol lost her daughter, Daryl lost his brother, Carl lost his mom. Beth lost her mom. And Beth was contemplating suicide.
I've seen first hand how devastating it is to a mother to lose a child. And the way Carol was portrayed to be after Sophia died, that's laughable.
These problems don't just disappear.
All the writers would have to do is look at the personality traits and experiences of the characters, use an easily found mental health diagnosis chart against each character and they'd have a road map to draw from in order to further develop the characters, which would define the types of drama that each character would create and experience.
But instead, they choose a 1 dimensional hollywood philosophy?

If these characters were written in even a halfway realistic way the entire group would be so much more fucked up than they're portraying them now.

I guess I'm the weird one for expecting some realism and depth in the characters of the show!?

Ragnarr

16-Oct-2013, 11:50 PM

While I laughed at this, there are a few things that could have happened....

For one, what is he going to do? Spend his time dissecting a pig that is of basically no interest to the large group? If he did, how much could he really find out? Sure, ruined organs and such, but he doesn't have the proper equipment to get down to the real cause of it all.

For two, maybe I missed it, but does Hershel even know about the pig?

For three, Rick probably doesn't see it as a big deal because it happens. Being a "farm child" of the southern US, I can tell you that sometimes livestock just keels over. You just discard the remains and move on.

All good points m8. I would have had that brief conversation scene between Rick and Hershel (Hershel explaining replanting etc.) take place at the pig pen with Hershel making some (any) comment regarding the sluggish pig. He'd at least be able to determine if it was running a fever or had some sort of intestinal disorder; very generalized diagnosis if he did'nt pact a microscope after about 8 months of the others doing supply runs into nearby towns ("Bring me back some dang medical supplies you young whipper snappers").

As to him maybe not being aware of the sick pig, I guess it's possible but in any small community I've lived in, even a trivial matter spreads through word of mouth rather quickly. Meh, maybe I'm looking too deep into it. It's only important that the pig died of "something" which helps to advance the plot. Next episode is going to be awesome I think.

babomb

17-Oct-2013, 12:28 AM

But wouldn't you want to at least examine the pig to make sure it isn't something that could effect the rest of the livestock? Then maybe examine the other pigs to see if they're showing signs of anything to try and prevent them all from keeling over?

Ragnarr

17-Oct-2013, 12:32 AM

I guess I'm the weird one for expecting some realism and depth in the characters of the show!?

You're likely correct that each character should exhibit some level of PTSD given what they've been through since the outbreak, but I would think it might be similar to the mental state of active troops still under fire in a war theater rather than any complications experienced in the aftermath. There's still hordes of zombies outside the fence, the governor still stalking them looking for revenge and life inside the prison issues occupying their immediate attention. Augment that mindset with a daily desensitization of zombie head shootings/stabbings and I think they might exhibit the detached personalities you're noticing. Besides, it'd really slow down the action if we tuned in each week only to see our heroes in a group crying huddle. ;)

Moon Knight

17-Oct-2013, 01:19 AM

I swear, some of you just watch this show just to find things to pick on lol go watch CSI or something of the sorts. :D

babomb

17-Oct-2013, 01:33 AM

Well said Publius - I'm with you on this.

Plus, it'd be daft to have everyone feeling exactly the same and just moping around like misery guts for sixteen episodes. You've got to have different people behaving differently at different times - it's more realistic, and it's more interesting. There is no one-size-fits-all reaction to trauma. They've also got to maintain some of what they had before, and some of who they were before, otherwise what's the point in fighting? Meanwhile, others might abandon the old world so they can - with no law enforcement left - indulge every sick whim they desire ... and then others like The Governor can't/don't/won't fight hard enough to maintain old world sanity and thus allow themselves to stumble down a very slippery slope indeed until they're hideous reflections of their former selves.

Also, as a viewer, I don't want to watch people being miserable non-stop. Even in extremely tough times people find moments to smile or laugh or indulge themselves or find solace in other people. I would find misery all around boring also. I'm not advocating that the characters be shown moping around.
I'm just saying they should be consistent with the situation and with their already established circumstances. I think the writers tried too hard to convey the point that things had gotten a bit better.
Put yourself into their shoes rather than consider the entire series up to this point from the viewers perspective. Knowing that anyone could die at anytime, wouldn't you take a more casual approach to a relationship to save yourself the grief if/when your chosen partner gets bit or devoured or killed by a rival group? That's a survival mentality, which is absolutely necessary in such a situation.
Think of how hard it was for these characters to make it this far, how many other people they saw die, how many other people they cared about and felt the extreme pain of losing. They watched Rick lose his shit over Lori.
People fight to survive. It really is that simple. Survival is hardwired in some peoples DNA. Others, not so much. People who require these complex philosophical reasons to fight, like holding on to what they had/were before, or people that are too emotionally invested in other people, these are people that are less likely to survive anyway. Because once you start thinking about things that deeply, the only logical conclusion is that none of that even matters because you're already doomed. You sew the seeds of doubt in your mind which makes you more susceptible to just giving up.
The scene with creepy Clara illustrates this. She couldn't be without Eddie, she couldn't do the things you had to do to survive. So she took her own life because she wanted to be with her husband. That's the very real possibility and consequence of being too emotionally invested in another person in that situation. And like it or not, every member of the prison group is 2 steps away from being in that same situation. Rick admitted that to Herschel.

You strive for simple short term goals in those extreme situations.

- - - Updated - - -

You're likely correct that each character should exhibit some level of PTSD given what they've been through since the outbreak, but I would think it might be similar to the mental state of active troops still under fire in a war theater rather than any complications experienced in the aftermath. There's still hordes of zombies outside the fence, the governor still stalking them looking for revenge and life inside the prison issues occupying their immediate attention. Augment that mindset with a daily desensitization of zombie head shootings/stabbings and I think they might exhibit the detached personalities you're noticing. Besides, it'd really slow down the action if we tuned in each week only to see our heroes in a group crying huddle. ;) Yes. This is what I'm talking about. Except I don't think that reality would be the group in a crying huddle.
I think they would pair up, but in a casual playful way. While being very reserved and wary of becoming dependent or attached to anyone. So there'd be drama such as people hooking up with multiple people, and jealousy. And people having flirtatious fun with each other while at the fence killing zombies. Not everyone developing these intense serious relationships.

Harleydude666

17-Oct-2013, 01:53 AM

I would find misery all around boring also. I'm not advocating that the characters be shown moping around.
I'm just saying they should be consistent with the situation and with their already established circumstances. I think the writers tried too hard to convey the point that things had gotten a bit better.
Put yourself into their shoes rather than consider the entire series up to this point from the viewers perspective. Knowing that anyone could die at anytime, wouldn't you take a more casual approach to a relationship to save yourself the grief if/when your chosen partner gets bit or devoured or killed by a rival group? That's a survival mentality, which is absolutely necessary in such a situation.
Think of how hard it was for these characters to make it this far, how many other people they saw die, how many other people they cared about and felt the extreme pain of losing. They watched Rick lose his shit over Lori.
People fight to survive. It really is that simple. Survival is hardwired in some peoples DNA. Others, not so much. People who require these complex philosophical reasons to fight, like holding on to what they had/were before, or people that are too emotionally invested in other people, these are people that are less likely to survive anyway. Because once you start thinking about things that deeply, the only logical conclusion is that none of that even matters because you're already doomed. You sew the seeds of doubt in your mind which makes you more susceptible to just giving up.
The scene with creepy Clara illustrates this. She couldn't be without Eddie, she couldn't do the things you had to do to survive. So she took her own life because she wanted to be with her husband. That's the very real possibility and consequence of being too emotionally invested in another person in that situation. And like it or not, every member of the prison group is 2 steps away from being in that same situation. Rick admitted that to Herschel.

You strive for simple short term goals in those extreme situations.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. This is what I'm talking about. Except I don't think that reality would be the group in a crying huddle.
I think they would pair up, but in a casual playful way. While being very reserved and wary of becoming dependent or attached to anyone. So there'd be drama such as people hooking up with multiple people, and jealousy. And people having flirtatious fun with each other while at the fence killing zombies. Not everyone developing these intense serious relationships.

Again you seem to be basing this on how you think they should be interacting with one another. All I saw was one relationship develop between the new group and that was Karen and Ty, and I didn't see them act out of the ordinary. Nothing they did was over indulgent on how they felt about one another except share a little kiss. Hell, look at Beth and that kid, it goes against everything you're trying to insinuate. She purposely didn't get close and didn't get upset when he died. As for Maggie and Glenn, they have been a couple for two years now. And the only thing Carol did with Daryl was share one little flirty joke. I don't see what you're talking about as far as "Love Story" developing on TWD.

babomb

17-Oct-2013, 02:11 AM

Again you seem to be basing this on how you think they should be interacting with one another. All I saw was one relationship develop between the new group and that was Karen and Ty, and I didn't see them act out of the ordinary. Nothing they did was over indulgent on how they felt about one another except share a little kiss. Hell, look at Beth and that kid, it goes against everything you're trying to insinuate. She purposely didn't get close and didn't get upset when he died. As for Maggie and Glenn, they have been a couple for two years now. And the only thing Carol did with Daryl was share one little flirty joke. I don't see what you're talking about as far as "Love Story" developing on TWD. This is the 1st episode and I'm concerned that what we saw will continue. Maybe it won't, and my concerns will be unfounded. I hope so.
And yes, it is based on how I envision them interacting with each other given the situation and circumstances.

Harleydude666

17-Oct-2013, 02:58 AM

This is the 1st episode and I'm concerned that what we saw will continue. Maybe it won't, and my concerns will be unfounded. I hope so.
And yes, it is based on how I envision them interacting with each other given the situation and circumstances.

Well, there definitely has to be a happy median of course. I mean if this turns into "Bridges of Madison County" I'll be the first to admit I am wrong. But,....I also don't want to see them get away from the natural course of coupling to a certain point because it still points to the humanity and basic instinct of these characters or people in general. I can tell you that if the acting is not up to par, then I can see it where it just looks bad and unnatural especially if the dialogue is not well written either.

babomb

17-Oct-2013, 03:47 AM

I'm hoping they intentionally made this episode that way to contrast with what's to come. Next episode could change everything.

Harleydude666

17-Oct-2013, 10:43 AM

I'm hoping they intentionally made this episode that way to contrast with what's to come. Next episode could change everything.

I don't know what's coming because I haven't read any spoilers or seen any clips but I have read a couple of reviews. And from what I got out of it is the next couple of shows is balls to the wall of zombie action, terror and horror. I hope I read right.

MoonSylver

17-Oct-2013, 05:04 PM

I swear, some of you just watch this show just to find things to pick on lol go watch CSI or something of the sorts. :D

Nah, just that the last episode ended on such a "WTF is going on?" note that it's hard not to try & figure out, well, WTF is going on? ;)

AcesandEights

17-Oct-2013, 06:35 PM

WTF is going on? ;)

I thought it was obvious. Sexually transmitted super-disease.

babomb

17-Oct-2013, 08:59 PM

I thought it was obvious. Sexually transmitted super-disease. So then the young woody allen clone has been screwing pigs? And who screwed the boar in the woods? The Gov?
Or are people screwing walkers?

Ragnarr

18-Oct-2013, 12:33 AM

Oh mah gawd! It's must be the Mad Effer! One of the TWD characters sneaks out each night searching for anything or anybody to F***, sort of like Lori but in a male role! ;)

sandrock74

18-Oct-2013, 03:06 AM

babomb

18-Oct-2013, 03:33 AM

Am I the only one who thought it was odd how everyone seems to be sleeping with the cell doors open? I mean, I'm sure its to show how complacent they have become over the past several months, but I don't think I'd ever sleep with my "rooms" cell door unlocked. That's a bad situation there. Because they don't all have individual keys. I agree that i would want my cell locked. But i'd also want the key to unlock it. I wouldn't want to be locked in a cell where someone else had the key, outside the cell.
There's not enough keys for there to be one for every cell. Last season Rick said that he and Daryl both had copies of the keys.
There's a security protocol in place. When the prison was active, guards would most likely not have keys to open every door in the whole prison. Guards working in cell block A probably had keys to open only that cell block and it's cells. All cells in block A would open with the same key, likely a different key than the cells in block B.
Otherwise if 1 cell block was overrun, all cell blocks and the cells within would be at risk. The key to open the cell block itself would also probably be different than the one that opens each individual cell.
So they probably have a choice. Sleep with the cell door open or be stuck in the cell until someone that has a key can let you out. And if the person with the key is asleep when you wake up, you're stuck until they wake up. Or if they get killed, well, that would suck real bad.

facestabber

18-Oct-2013, 03:56 AM

Am I the only one who thought it was odd how everyone seems to be sleeping with the cell doors open? I mean, I'm sure its to show how complacent they have become over the past several months, but I don't think I'd ever sleep with my "rooms" cell door unlocked.

Absolutely correct. I understand I could die in this tv world but I don't want to die cheap. Falling asleep at night to get bit by old man Jenkins down the hall because he died in his sleep would piss me off. And hurt. I also agree with Babombs take about being locked in with someone else in control. Heck tie the cell shut with wire or rope. Don't have to be keyed to stop a ZED. But as OP first stated I'm sure this was done to show complacency. Our group is feeling a tad too safe and will probably be reminded of their vulnerability in a violent manner

babomb

18-Oct-2013, 04:20 AM

I'd find a bike lock or a simple padlock and chain on one of the supply runs. Keep my cell locked at all times.

Seems like writers these days have a serious lack of imagination.

Neil

18-Oct-2013, 08:32 AM

I agree that i would want my cell locked. But i'd also want the key to unlock it. I wouldn't want to be locked in a cell where someone else had the key, outside the cell.
A plank of wood to stop the door sliding unless it was removed. Something wrapped around/between the bars to the door sliding open. A zombie would be too dim to solve the "lock", but a human could move the "lock" in seconds...

Wyldwraith

18-Oct-2013, 08:44 AM

For the record,
When I mentioned Anthrax, I was referring to the regularly-occurring kind...that normally becomes evident in Livestock and then gets passed to people in contact with, or close proximity to said livestock. Nothing weaponized certainly. My overarching point was that a conventional disease growing into an epidemic inside the close quarters of the prison is VASTLY more likely than the hyper-specialized "Walker Pathogen" suddenly mutating to the extent of making a vector-delivery change. A little research will illustrate just how very, VERY different microbes that survive easily outside biological hosts, and even moreso those that survive without a liquid water medium are from those that can't survive outside host bodies for longer than a very few minutes.

Just to touch on some of the basics: Airborne and long-term persisting pathogens INVARIABLY have either a) A spore-form they are capable of adopting, or b) A relatively very thick membrane surrounding them. By comparison, HIV (for example) is actually extremely conventional when it comes to its extreme fragility outside the body/blood. Water-borne pathogens are sort of the middle-ground between airborne microbes and those utterly dependent on their hosts to survive more than the next few minutes.

Not saying the writers might not be foolish enough to go with some sort of "Walker Pathogen has mutated, and now SOME RANDOM PEOPLE are now suddenly prone to developing post-bite-like symptoms seemingly out of the blue." Just that, biologically speaking, the Prison is a squalid, filthy place that would take thousands of gallons of bleach, steam pressure-washers, or both to render it something that wouldn't be INSTANTLY condemned by the Health Board by modern, pre-Apocalyptic standards. The outdoor, inside-the-fence area of the Prison is far, FAR worse. It's no stretch at all to believe "Gee, a place that had hundreds of rotting bodies lying in the same cells we're now using as bedrooms, AND that had dozens/a few hundred putrid walking corpses stumbling about or laying around in turned out to be rife with the potential for an epidemic. Who would have thought it?"

No need to stretch the boundaries of disbelief-suspension further with some mutation of the pathogen that reanimates the dead. Hell, it's the South. Every year we get a few cases of things thought of as very exotic, like Dengue Fever...and that's in our hygienic no-apocalypse world. Hell, we see a few cases of THE PLAGUE in the US every year. Why do you think dog-kennel/breeding operations are so much stricter in the U.S Southwest/West Coast? Because of the Plague-carrying fleas thick in prairie dog communities.

My point, however far afield I've wandered, is that a) The Prison Population is NOT experiencing ideal nutrition, b) The Prison and its grounds are potentially thick with any # of Infectious Agents, that would naturally strike the young, old, pregnant and already immuno-compromised first. c) Constant stress, also known as distress, is a known depressant of the immune system. d) The Prison's water supply cannot, due to a variety of circumstances, be verified as sanitary. Even if they've scrupulously checked all the internal plumbing they can access, the water is coming from somewhere, ergo it's passing through the same unclean conditions in which the Prison Population lives.

A solid argument for conventional disease-based epidemic in the offing I believe.

shootemindehead

18-Oct-2013, 09:41 AM

I really hope it is just a case fo something conventional, as you put it, and not a mutation of the zombie virus.

The reason is that changing the lore, or the abilities of something and that includes the virus at the centre of the show is just simply a bad idea, if you aren't prepared or cannot follow through on the logic of such changes, and having the virus mutate is a serious impact on the show's future path.

It's the reason I hate the zombie super smell idea, because it gets shown up as stupid later in the series, because it's not a trait that was carried on. For instance, the zombies could smell Rick and Glen, in the rain I might add, when their guts were getting washed away in series one. But they couldn't smell the entire group when they were hidng under cars at the beginning of the second series. The trailer zombie also couldn't smell Andrea and he was in really close proximity to her. They also couldn't smell Michone and the kid in the bar in the third series ina closed environment.

The only problem with the Anthrax route, is that it is relatively rare in swine. It's much more common in cattle, sheep and goats and it's rather easy to spot for humans tending the animals as there is usually severe respiratory problems, blood in their waste and bleeding from the nose and mouth. It's also easy to spot after death, so if Herschel is any way good as a vet, he'd see it a mile away.

Of course, it could be something else.

Neil

18-Oct-2013, 09:53 AM

So we're not seeing a link with sick pigs and sick Harry Potters then?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/1395452_768452116514282_299014324_n.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

It's the reason I hate the zombie super smell idea.That bugged the hell out of me!

babomb

18-Oct-2013, 10:40 AM

Then the problem of lightning fast reanimation comes into play. Lightning fast as in WWZ style. Harry Potter changed before his body was fully settled onto the ground.
Also, if there's no connection between harry potter and the dead swine, then we're into plot devices that are there for no better reason than to mislead us.

I really hope the writers are putting more effort into things than this. But my faith in them is at an all time low already.

Neil

18-Oct-2013, 10:58 AM

Harry Potter changed before his body was fully settled onto the ground.
Where did you get that from?

I assumed there was a good delay before him keeling over, and him opening his eyes?

MinionZombie

18-Oct-2013, 11:53 AM

I wouldn't say "lightning fast" reanimation ... plus as we've seen throughout the series, reanimation times vary a great deal, depending on the circumstances in which the person died.

kidgloves

18-Oct-2013, 06:02 PM

Greg Nicotero confirmed on a podcast today that there is a new type of zombie linked to the bleeding eyes and fast reanimation

babomb

18-Oct-2013, 07:00 PM

Where did you get that from?

I assumed there was a good delay before him keeling over, and him opening his eyes? What's a good delay? 10 seconds? Long enough for the camera to pan from his legs to his head? As soon as his head turned completely to the side he was reanimated.

AcesandEights

18-Oct-2013, 07:18 PM

What's a good delay? 10 seconds? Long enough for the camera to pan from his legs to his head? As soon as his head turned completely to the side he was reanimated.

I'm going to have to re-watch the ending. Didn't they cutaway to Rick for a bit after the character fell in the shower, then came back to him later to do the full pan and have him open his eyes, or am I misremembering it?

Wyldwraith

18-Oct-2013, 07:48 PM

Just read an interview w/ Nicotero over at Bloody Disgusting,
The long and the short of it is: They as writers haven't even defined the actual pathogen behind Patrick's death and the bloody-eyed Walker at the fence. In his words "We've left it vague, so it could be related to the Walker outbreak, or it could be something that brings people down simply because they can't take antibiotics, like Swine Flu or something." And: "It's a new threat, because it can kill you before you even have time to tell someone you're sick. So that's a Ticking Time Bomb waiting to go off." (End quotes)

So it's not QUITE as bad as I feared, but it's still a bad choice because the unknown nature of the epidemic (which they mean to be fear-instilling AS an unknown) is undoubtedly going to come off ambiguous in a manner which they do NOT intend, and there's every reason to believe that ambiguity can/will detract from the focus on the internal nature of the threat in the Prison. Especially given that they have more than one ambiguity-laden plotline in the works. Such as how Rick will react to his placid way of life, and the attendant complacency exemplified by his having to be ordered to take his gun on trips outside the fence, suddenly being shattered all over again and thrusting him and everyone else back into the moment-to-moment struggle for survival.

Which isn't even taking the ramping up external threat of the Walkers into account: The previews showing Rick & the others desperately struggling to hold up the collapsing perimeter fences now make a lot more sense. As this epidemic reduces available manpower for the fence crews (either directly, as victims of the epidemic. Or indirectly, as more and more people are tasked with caring for the sick and dying.) the ever-increasing Walker pressure on the fences will simply cause them to fail structurally once the arriving Walkers are no longer being eliminated almost as soon as they reach the fence. More clearly: If the # of Walkers we ALREADY saw at the fences during the premier weren't being eliminated rapidly and en masse their #'s are ALREADY sufficient, given a few hours of relentless pressing forward to bring the fences down. Yes, the fenced gates bordering the paved prison courtyard are tougher, but are still vulnerable to the same mob-pressing as the outer fences. It's only a matter of degree/a longer interval of time before those were brought down too.

I just wish they'd gone with a clear distinction of regular disease coupled with malnutrition and stress as the cause of the epidemic.

Neil

18-Oct-2013, 09:12 PM

What's a good delay? 10 seconds? Long enough for the camera to pan from his legs to his head? As soon as his head turned completely to the side he was reanimated.

Falls down...
Cut away to water running out... Implying passing of time...
Cut away to montage of prison... Implying passing of time...
Cut back to Harry Potter with contacts... and respiratory problems...

rongravy

18-Oct-2013, 11:38 PM

Yeah, I really think we should at least let them attempt to explain what up in the next couple of future episodes before we collectively say the show's gone down the crapper, geeez.
I think this new revelation will give us something new to chew on, so to speak.
Also, 16.1 million viewers for the premiere?
Boom.
The only problem I have with the show is I still have to wait a week between episodes. That's gotta be a good thing. I'm not a mindless lover of the show, I believe, even though I've been one of those "Hey the show is great and the zombies look sweeet" guys probably mentioned earlier. I did have a gripe when they did all the super smell crap.
I'm usually just pondering what will happen next...

Ragnarr

19-Oct-2013, 12:27 AM

Am I the only one who thought it was odd how everyone seems to be sleeping with the cell doors open? I mean, I'm sure its to show how complacent they have become over the past several months, but I don't think I'd ever sleep with my "rooms" cell door unlocked.

I thought about that and what I would do instead. I think I'd prefer sleeping in one of the watch towers, somehow blocking the way up for the night. It may just be my ape brain at work, but being higher up always seems safer.

- - - Updated - - -

Falls down...
Cut away to water running out... Implying passing of time...
Cut away to montage of prison... Implying passing of time...
Cut back to Harry Potter with contacts... and respiratory problems...

As long as this apparent virus doesn't reanimate the dead in 10 seconds like in WWZ, I'm okay with it. The 10 second thing is just nutty imo.

sandrock74

19-Oct-2013, 01:23 AM

I thought about that and what I would do instead. I think I'd prefer sleeping in one of the watch towers, somehow blocking the way up for the night. It may just be my ape brain at work, but being higher up always seems safer.

The watchtowers that were destroyed when the Governors people attacked the prison?

facestabber

19-Oct-2013, 01:56 AM

The watchtowers that were destroyed when the Governors people attacked the prison?

There is still a tower standing isn't there? Also there is an internal tower at the entrance to cell block C. I wouldn't mind sleeping in an elevated position like that. Walkers would be funneled up the steps (think 300 Spartans). Granted there is no where to go as it is currently but I still argue the attic was my choice over basement in NOTLD. Wow did I stray off course

sandrock74

19-Oct-2013, 03:10 AM

There is still a tower standing isn't there? Also there is an internal tower at the entrance to cell block C. I wouldn't mind sleeping in an elevated position like that. Walkers would be funneled up the steps (think 300 Spartans). Granted there is no where to go as it is currently but I still argue the attic was my choice over basement in NOTLD. Wow did I stray off course

I'm with you on the attic! Zombies can't get up there...the basement is a death trap!

babomb

19-Oct-2013, 03:30 AM

Falls down...
Cut away to water running out... Implying passing of time...
Cut away to montage of prison... Implying passing of time...
Cut back to Harry Potter with contacts... and respiratory problems... OK, it was 20 seconds. The water ran out because it was a hand pump activated spigot and he only pumped it twice. Not because all the water in the shower reserve ran out. Not exactly a montage either. Shows carl reading a comic with a flashlight, and a shot of the steps. I didn't take that to mean the passing of time. Seemed like they were implying that everyone was asleep and off guard except carl.

Hence:

"It's a new threat, because it can kill you before you even have time to tell someone you're sick. So that's a Ticking Time Bomb waiting to go off."
How long does it take to tell someone you're sick? Not quite WWZ fast, but pretty damn close.

MinionZombie

19-Oct-2013, 11:54 AM

I also think that Patrick had no idea he was in properly bad shape either - no doubt just thinking it was a stomach bug or something that wasn't really worth bothering too much about, just man up and stand under a cold tap for a bit. :D

If you cut away to other stuff going on, that usually means passage of time in my view.

I'd definitely rig up some sort of 'soft lock' on my cell door if I was sleeping there. Some sort of metal or wood beam with hooks on it which link onto the cell door that a human can easily figure out, but a walker would have no idea about. I wouldn't be able to sleep with the door open personally, I don't sleep with my bedroom door open as it is anyway, so I'd doubly not want my cell door open inside the TWD prison.

babomb

19-Oct-2013, 12:33 PM

If you cut away to other stuff going on, that usually means passage of time in my view. I think that depends on the other stuff going on. Not just that there was a cut to something. If you cut to something that indicates passage of time, like time lapse, a change in outdoor lighting, or even just to a completely different scene for a specified length, then yeah. They're usually not vague about that unless it's intentional though.
In this case it seems like when they cut to Carl reading with a flashlight, then to a still shot of the stairs, they're showing what's going on at that moment. I don't think they're implying that it took any longer than a minute or 2. Which is stretching it. I timed it from the time it took for him to fall to when he changed. And it was 20 seconds give or take a few. No longer than 30.

It's possible they were being intentionally vague or that they messed up the scene though.

rongravy

19-Oct-2013, 03:37 PM

I wouldn't be able to sleep with the door open personally, I don't sleep with my bedroom door open as it is anyway, so I'd doubly not want my cell door open inside the TWD prison.
Ha, I don't even like to dangle my appendages over the edge of the bed at night.
Never know what's going to grab you...

MoonSylver

19-Oct-2013, 05:24 PM

I'm with you on the attic! Zombies can't get up there...the basement is a death trap!

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/moonsylver/cooper1_zpsd829ee53.jpg

I also think that Patrick had no idea he was in properly bad shape either - no doubt just thinking it was a stomach bug or something that wasn't really worth bothering too much about, just man up and stand under a cold tap for a bit. :D

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/moonsylver/cold_tap_zps30f26493.jpg

MinionZombie

19-Oct-2013, 05:48 PM

Ha, I don't even like to dangle my appendages over the edge of the bed at night.
Never know what's going to grab you...

haha, same here! I don't like my toes poking out from the end of the duvet either - I can't sleep otherwise, I feel like something's gonna grab me and pull me under ... whenever the duvet falls off the end of the bed while I'm asleep it properly shits me up - it feels just like someone's at the end grabbing at you as you're woken up - now, in the world of The Walking Dead that could very well happen, and it'd be a ruddy zombie grabbing at you. Yeesh ... still, whoever's got top bunk might be relatively safe for a moment while the unlucky chucky on the bottom gets munched on ... unless an arm or leg is dangling.

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/moonsylver/cold_tap_zps30f26493.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

I love the way he says 'I ran it under a cold tap'. :D

Moon Knight

20-Oct-2013, 02:14 AM

They don't have to show the entire time lapse to figure out time has passed.

krisvds

20-Oct-2013, 06:43 AM

MinionZombie

20-Oct-2013, 10:34 AM

One can only hope they are not about to introduce a new 'type' of zombie as a result of the piggy disease.
When there is no more room for creativity the dead will wear contacts and growl like huge beasts.

*ahem* They've been using contacts since episode one. :p

The difference is that the contacts used on TWD are realistic to disease and decay, you can't have all that decay and rot and then have perfectly normal human eyes ... with other shit it's just whatever they damn well please.

krisvds

20-Oct-2013, 11:34 AM

*ahem* They've been using contacts since episode one. :p

Well, yes. Exactly my point.
:sneaky:

But in all seriousness: I hope, and reallly do not expect them to, introduce some kind of new, super charged, even more lethal zombie.
You know; the karateka, videogame undead that have infested the genre of late

Wyldwraith

20-Oct-2013, 05:53 PM

THAT is what I was complaining about,
Not jumping the gun so far as not waiting to see how they handle things, I was referencing Nicotero's own words that they (the writers) have not bothered to define the exact cause of this new epidemic-in-the-making. I can't possibly see good things coming from writer laziness being linked to a CORE plot element that is currently on-deck. Make a decision TWD writers/Nicotero, and stick with it. Vague unknown causes only work if you've never made methodology of how the Undead Phenomena plays out part of the movie, or in this case show, lore. Had they not done the trip to the CDC they could creatively afford to go vague and unknown. Now though, now the line is at LEAST as clear as "What causes people to come back from the dead, OR what's simply plain old human sicknesses." It wouldn't have been a logistical impediment to their plots either way, since whatever the disease, death results in reanimation in TWD world.

The fact that Nicotero doesn't even seem to understand that there's a meaningful distinction between clearly identifying what caused bloody-eye Walker and Patrick's death, ESPECIALLY given a resume which includes the Prototypical No Explanation of Reanimation lore-element (The Night remake springs to mind)...troubles me. So far as I'm concerned that/this is a separate issue from how well things do or don't play out well in the upcoming episodes. Had he given some form of limited-info/no comment answer I woulda even been fine with that...but the entire tone of the interview is very frank and detailed. He even responded meaningfully to an almost spoiler-guaranteeing question "What can we expect to see in the next 2-3 episodes?" So, this wasn't just a matter of him playing things close to the vest.

Don't get me wrong. I REALLY liked the Season Premier, and this is coming from someone who had grave doubts about how things would play out when one of the last things we saw at end of Season 3 was a busload of Woodbury non-combatants joining the group at the Prison. I was pleasantly surprised in many ways by the handling of said episode, which I think only serves to make me all the more concerned that the writers didn't bother to nail down a reason WHY numerous characters are going to drop dead so fast.

Will have to see how it goes. They may pleasantly surprise me again, I'm not ruling that out after the premier did so. I just wanted to clarify that my problem wasn't with envisioning hypothetical problems that may not in fact exist. It was with openly, inarguably declared sloppy writing choice deeply tied to a key plot element running right now.