TWD 4x06 "Live Bait" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

The sixth episode of season four!

Please keep all talk of episode 4x06 "Live Bait" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Enjoy!


Episode 4.06 – “Live Bait” - Group members struggle to find their humanity while being constantly threatened.

[Andy]

I'm kinda disapointed they dropped the name beginning with I thing they had going.. otherwise looking forward to it :)

[babomb]

Rick kills Daryl tonight...

[kidgloves]

Rick kills Daryl tonight...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ELFl2_1q7DI/TObn1HnV2fI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/5JkvAtpbv7k/s1600/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[Moon Knight]

Rick kills Daryl tonight...

Neither will be in tonight's episode, I'm guessing.

[facestabber]

Rick kills Daryl tonight...

Always trying to stir up shit;)

You try out that new shooting range in SV yet? I saw Hall played a close game against a tough team.

[babomb]

Always trying to stir up shit;)

You try out that new shooting range in SV yet? I saw Hall played a close game against a tough team. No I haven't gone there yet. Heard alot about it though. I got several friends that have gone. It's a half block away so I got plenty of time.

The word on the net is that Daryl admits to the council that he's gay, and Rick kills him to keep him from outing him. Then he burns down the death row wing of the prison where the S&M lair was setup, and Glenn is horribly burned because he was bound and bent over a barrel with a red ball in his mouth. Ving Rhames style.

This is just the scuttlebutt going around the net though.

[AcesandEights]

God, I hate when they put shitty country music in TWD montages or fade-outs.

- - - Updated - - -

I suspect we will need a tear-o-meter after this episode for some of the hardcore action fanatics. :evil:

[JonOfTheShred]

So when did they re-cast the Governor as Kurt Russel decked out in Escape From New York apparel?

Another pretty damn good episode. Not as clutch-cargo as last weeks, but it's definitely interesting what route they're taking the Governor in now. I wonder if the Governor is going to attempt and bring his new 'family' to the prison and extend an olive branch to Rick and Michonne? And if so, I wonder how the new family will react when Rick and Michonne inevitably tell them about how the Governor gunned down a dozen or more of his own people?

This episode is definitely another indication that all season they've put a very noticeable focus on increasing the threat the zombies possess, just like they said they would.

[Harleydude666]

So when did they re-cast the Governor as Kurt Russel decked out in Escape From New York apparel?

Another pretty damn good episode. Not as clutch-cargo as last weeks, but it's definitely interesting what route they're taking the Governor in now. I wonder if the Governor is going to attempt and bring his new 'family' to the prison and extend an olive branch to Rick and Michonne? And if so, I wonder how the new family will react when Rick and Michonne inevitably tell them about how the Governor gunned down a dozen or more of his own people?

This episode is definitely another indication that all season they've put a very noticeable focus on increasing the threat the zombies possess, just like they said they would.

Never going to happen. If they go that route then it's just terrible writing after 6 great written episodes

[babomb]

It was actually a pretty good episode. A little slow but it didn't detract from it.

This episode shows more of the world they're in, which is what I like to see. There doesn't have to be action all the time IMO.
I just get sick of the same ol shit with the prison, and contrived plot threads. This was a refreshing break from all that. Looks like the next episode will explore things further.
Last 3 episodes have been pretty damn good. Hope that continues...

[Moon Knight]

I suspect we will need a tear-o-meter after this episode for some of the hardcore action fanatics. :evil:

The Governor kills a walker with a bone. That's all I need.

[JonOfTheShred]

Never going to happen. If they go that route then it's just terrible writing after 6 great written episodes

What isn't going to happen, Governor trying to save his "family" by going to the Prison? I think it's more likely they're going to get killed off and drive him back to insanity / self-preservation mode, but depending on how they handled it I don't think it'd necessarily be TERRIBLE writing to go there. Obviously the Governor wouldn't be allowed in, that's not what I was suggesting, moreso that they might take in his new companions, then kick him to the curb. If they're attempting to redeem his character, I don't see how it would be so far fetched to think the Governor might try to weasel his way into the prison. He was a sociopath after all, remember the encounter with the National Guardsmen? Or how he treated anyone first arriving to Woodbury?

[kidgloves]

Im sure this was a merging of the novels and the tv show. Those new characters are from the first TWD novel. Not really sure though because I couldn't make it all the way through due to the terrible way it was written.
Anyway, this episode was a nice surprise. Would have liked to have seen more Governor on the road though

[sandrock74]

Im sure this was a merging of the novels and the tv show. Those new characters are from the first TWD novel.

Bingo! That's exactly what I said when watching the episode. Also, notice the new lady-friends name? Lily.

[Harleydude666]

What isn't going to happen, Governor trying to save his "family" by going to the Prison? I think it's more likely they're going to get killed off and drive him back to insanity / self-preservation mode, but depending on how they handled it I don't think it'd necessarily be TERRIBLE writing to go there. Obviously the Governor wouldn't be allowed in, that's not what I was suggesting, moreso that they might take in his new companions, then kick him to the curb. If they're attempting to redeem his character, I don't see how it would be so far fetched to think the Governor might try to weasel his way into the prison. He was a sociopath after all, remember the encounter with the National Guardsmen? Or how he treated anyone first arriving to Woodbury?

Seriously? Kick him to the curb? He would be dead on the spot without a word even uttered, and even the Gov. Knows that. Think about it, all lined up to take their shot Michone, Daryl, Rick, Maggie, Glenn even Herschel.
I'll buy that maybe he directs his companions there but it would be severely retarded on the writers part for him to make an appearance there to try to bargain, he's dead period. I hope to god they don't go that route or the season takes a major plunge.

[JDFP]

Wait, you mean to tell me that even the governor, a sociopath, has some redeemable qualities that make for entertaining storytelling and goes to show that even an anti-hero can be a fascinating character if done properly? An anti-hero with some semblance of humanity when it comes to what he considers to be 'family'? You mean to tell me that we can break away from cliches to show that even a crazed power-hungry monster, by his own making, can sometimes be heroic at times as well?

It looks like the writers for "The Walking Dead" have been watching A LOT of "Breaking Bad" before this episode.

Of course, the fact that both shows air on the same network have absolutely zero coincidence, right? ;)

"Say my name!"
"Brian... err, the governor!"
"You're goddamn right!"

j.p.

[JonOfTheShred]

Seriously? Kick him to the curb? He would be dead on the spot without a word even uttered, and even the Gov. Knows that. Think about it, all lined up to take their shot Michone, Daryl, Rick, Maggie, Glenn even Herschel.
I'll buy that maybe he directs his companions there but it would be severely retarded on the writers part for him to make an appearance there to try to bargain, he's dead period. I hope to god they don't go that route or the season takes a major plunge.

Right, because Michonne, Daryl, Rick, Maggie, Glenn, and Herschel will find no shame or guilt in putting a bullet in the head of the man with two women and a child clinging to his legs. Seems totally in character with them. I've read two reviews of the show and saw a number of people on IMDB suggest he might go to prison for help. It's not as implausible as you're attempting to make it seem, guy.

[Legion2213]

Hey! Where's my weekly fix of the crossbow toting, sweaty, but lovable redneck Daryl? :mad:

Seriously though the "governor-sode" was pretty neat, looks like our boy had a pretty rough time on the road (yet still managed to get some ass by the end of the episode). Judging from the shots of next weeks show, looks to be another "prison-lite" episode as well.

One gripe...not convinced that ripping a walkers throat out will kill it...what was going on there?

[Wyldwraith]

I think the throat-rip was meant to depict him reaching in and severing the spine. IRL it would be much more difficult than that of course, but not for the reason(s) many might think. The wind pipe is like garden-hose tough cartilage-lined tissue, and would still be a significant impediment to a frontal spine-reach even in a very putrescent corpse. HOWEVER, I believe that from the sheer savagery of the Gov's improvised Walker-kills in the pit, we viewers were meant to take away that he'd tapped into that reservoir of fury, regret and pain he's walled against since losing Penny. I mean the bone pulled through the head thing was almost as implausible, but looked rather badass.

I rather liked this episode in some ways, especially his chess conversation with the little girl. One of the things I do have an objection about is the shape he was depicted in moments before meeting that family unit, he'd just sort of flopped over in the street and was looking up from the ground at the girl in the window. Just before that a Walker angled within inches of him, and he didn't alter his shuffling pace one bit, instead just sorta leaning out of the way to let it overshoot him with its lunge. Hours later he's up to the nursing home fiasco? And THEN the pit-kills?

The only other thing I disliked was how once again he has this improbable physical happenings-based luck. Ie: The other woman in the group manages to twist her angle walking on level ground, but the Gov can fall feet-first into an eight foot pit while at a near-run, the fall catching him completely by surprise, then bounce back to his feet unharmed and trashing Walkers barehanded like nobody's business. Yes, one could argue adrenaline could see him through such a life-or-death situation, but that would presuppose next week seeing him injured...which I very much get the sense isn't/won't be the case.

Other than that it was an interesting take on the Gov, but I'd rather they not lose the event related to Carol in the shuffle AGAIN because other significant things are happening in the interim. It's another example of how her being unaccounted for during the death of Lori stuff...and Daryl kinda finding her as a script-afterthought once that stuff was played out. I don't think I'm alone in saying I want to see how things go down between Daryl and Rick when Rick tells the man that ONCE AGAIN he's made the call to leave someone Daryl deeply cares for behind. Lay everything else aside, and there's still the fact that Rick did this with Merle...and at THAT time Rick had a LARGE # of people to back up his account, plus T-Dog taking responsibility for dropping the handcuff key through the grate. Even with all that, Daryl was furious.

Now, all Rick has is "I made a choice for myself, she had to go Daryl." This view into what's been going on with the Gov is interesting in a way (at least until the extreme improbability of stumbling across his former cronies while on foot fleeing from Walkers)...but I feel it sort of comes at a bad time because it reduces the tension of what's between Rick and Daryl. You could feel it when he was putting it off eating peas or beans or whatever from the garden with Carl, but will that necessarily be true after two no-Prison episodes in a row? I felt like the story was very engaged at the Prison right now. Is the worst over? A question undoubtedly on many a viewer's mind even though realistically we know the answer is "No" because its a TV show...I guess I'm just saying that, say last season...when not much was happening in one locale or the other, it was easy to pingpong the focus from Woodbury to the Prison and back. Right now though it ALMOST feels like a cliffhanger...especially since we are perilously low on episodes before the mid-season break. I for one will be PISSED if they've devised a way to put off that hard convo between Rick and Daryl until the 2nd half of the season. Especially if it's because they're current ponging over to Governor TV three episodes in a row (if that's how it goes down.)

So, final analysis: A lot of interesting stuff, but given the very nature of the plot-content, these episodes could've been placed better with regards to the structure of the season, since they aren't yet continuity-tied-in. I'm afraid they're gonna focus a significant amount on the Gov playing house with his Replacement Penny and New Sex Toy (which leaves sprained-ankle chick as Walker food at some point)...though I'm not ready to go all Chicken Little based on one episode and strong indications it'll be at least two episodes in a row.

Edit/Further Note: As to the debate about whether this or that character at the Prison would kill the Governor if he showed up there with 2 women and a little girl hanging onto him: I believe that even if almost all of them went soft, Michonne's "If he was in front of me right now I'd cut him in half, because that's the way it has to be" would remain in effect. Michonne ISN'T angry anymore. She's beyond emotion where it comes to the Governor. Now he's simply a piece of vermin in need of being put down in Michonne's mind. I think she's been ready to chop him up on a moment's notice for long enough that unless someone held her at bay via firearms, Michonne would be over or through the fence and on the Gov before he could finish two sentences once she was on scene. Her not going out anymore is recognition that Daryl's right, the trail is ice-cold (if only they knew, but they dont)...NOT her relenting in her determination to kill the man at the earliest opportunity. In Michonne's mind, when that bullet passed through Andrea's skull, pen was put to paper and the Gov's death warrant was signed, sealed, and all that remains is delivery.

[Harleydude666]

Right, because Michonne, Daryl, Rick, Maggie, Glenn, and Herschel will find no shame or guilt in putting a bullet in the head of the man with two women and a child clinging to his legs. Seems totally in character with them. I've read two reviews of the show and saw a number of people on IMDB suggest he might go to prison for help. It's not as implausible as you're attempting to make it seem, guy.

All due respect dude, if they go that route with the Gov "requesting help" the show takes a major tumble after an awesome buildup. So much bloodshed and our heroes are not gonna care who he's with. They will shoot first and ask questions later. Too much horrific history with this guy for Michone and company to care what he has to say at this point.

[MinionZombie]

A tip-top episode there. Good on them for not just diving straight back into 'crazy Governor' territory. They wanted to avoid a one-note villain in season three, so it's good that they're redressed the balance again here - you actually feel sorry for him - and it was good to see him in a fatherly role with the little girl. He's got a little snifter of something to live for again - he was done and dusted until he saw the girl in the window.

Nice to get away from the prison - and all those characters too - explore a separate part of this world, albeit with familiar characters (or just character, depending on if you've read the tie-in novels). Morrissey has done a grand job playing the character, giving him plenty of shading so he's not just a nutjob - this is a complex human being, capable of both foul and good deeds.

I was very satisfied with this episode - I'm eagerly looking forward to the next episode, particularly because Martinez is the leader of a new group - will there be a power struggle? We'll just have to wait and see, but it should be interesting.

One thing - I'm wondering if the dude who played Shumpert got a gig elsewhere and will get written out off-screen (e.g. Martinez informs Phil that Shumpert got snuffed out a while back). We see three tents, but we never actually see Shumpert himself.

Good on Martinez & Shumpert for ditching The Governor too - they only went along with him because they were just too stunned to do anything else, but clearly with a moment to breathe they were able to decide to ditch him, so good on them for that ... it redeems their characters and sets them apart from TG's evil deeds a bit, even though there is blood on their hands too.

I liked that they went back to the place where the army guys were staged (the truck was the same one that had the chopper on it). Nice touch.

Finally - they addressed the "why not just go and live in Woodbury?" angle that some folks were saying across the internet after 3x16. For one thing, as we've already discussed at length, it wasn't strong enough against people, but then also - as this showed - there's nothing to go back to anyway as it's all burned down now. I liked that they addressed that little querie from some sectors of the fanbase. :cool:


Im sure this was a merging of the novels and the tv show. Those new characters are from the first TWD novel. Not really sure though because I couldn't make it all the way through due to the terrible way it was written.
Anyway, this episode was a nice surprise. Would have liked to have seen more Governor on the road though

Aye, they're clearly been dipping into the novels. This episode took elements from "The Road to Woodbury", and I wonder if the next episode will take elements from "The Rise of The Governor".

On the novels and a theory on how they might tie-in some of that content to the show:

So yeah, we've got Lily in the picture now, who didn't turn up until Novel #2 - the sisters and ailing father is straight out of TRTW, but in that they were a travelling band of musicians IIRC. In the book the little girl was Penny before she died. It was cool to see them take some pieces of that book and rework them into the show.

Now, with The Governor encountering Martinez again, I'm wondering if they'll take a bit out of the second novel. In that they had a camp with lots of tents (including a Circus Tent) ... we see a glimpse of a tent city in the preview for 4x07, so perhaps they're bringing in that part of the second novel. Now - in that second novel, Bob Stookey was also at the tent city ... and this is all happening before the events of 4x01 (the timeline for 4x06 and seemingly all of 4x07 is in-between and, probably, leading up to the final shot of 4x05) ... in the 2nd book the tent city gets attacked and wiped out, and Bob goes off with Lily and a couple of others and eventually encounter Martinez and get taken to Woodbury.

However, what I'm thinking is ... might Bob Stookey be at this tent city run by Martinez? Does the camp get taken out? Is Bob working for The Governor? Or has Bob just accidentally ended up getting caught in the middle?

As a side note - he calls himself "Brian" - it's revealed in the first book that "The Governor" we know is actually Penny's Uncle, and it was initially his brother who went bat-shit crazy before they ever reached Woodbury, and that he then assumed his brother's identity when he took over from the original leader of Woodbury. So ... is that a hint that the TV show Governor is also just Penny's Uncle ... what about that picture? An Uncle with his Niece and Sister-in-Law? An Uncle with his Wife and Niece? Or is he truly Penny's father?

As for the novels themselves - I've read the first two, and will probably continue to read them - at least to wrap up The Governor storyline anyway. I do agree though, they're badly written. The near constant use of character's full names in the prose is laughable (and frustrating) - just call her Lily! She doesn't need to be addressed formally as "Lily Caul", likewise "Philip Blake" ... constantly ... that pissed me off so much.

Also, constantly informing us of the weather - the number of times I read variations of "gun metal grey sky" ... Christ! :rolleyes:

Furthermore, I routinely was ahead of the action in the book - Bonansinga takes way too long to describe a horde of walkers, so as you're traipsing through generic descriptions of identikit walkers, you already know where the scene is going half-a-page-or-more before you actually get there. There's also a bad tendancy to leave chapters on artificial cliifhangers, often with dreadful lines of text along the lines of "But they never heard the army of walkers approaching from behind..." - which is just daft anyway, because that sort of thing happens several times and you then think 'how on earth did these non-observant, constantly-distracted people ever survive this long?!'.

I endure the sloppy prose for the plot - I just want to fill in the gaps and get some additional story info ... but they really need to find a new writer, because Bonansinga's writing is not good. I'm surprised he's been able to maintain a career as a writer, to be frank.


One gripe...not convinced that ripping a walkers throat out will kill it...what was going on there?

Perhaps Wyld is right - he was trying to disable the spine ... or just a way to temporarily disable the walker so he could deal with the other, and then come back to sort it out good and proper. The throat rip and the bone-head-tear WERE AWESOME! :D

[Legion2213]

Oh, why do you guys think he ditched the food he was given from the girls?

I thought it was because "The Governor" distributes gifts and food from a place of security and authority...and the act of receiving further charity from these people really hurt his pride.

Any other ideas?

As an aside, I really want that mac he wears with the upright collar...it's well smart.

[AcesandEights]

The only other thing I disliked was how once again he has this improbable physical happenings-based luck. Ie: The other woman in the group manages to twist her angle walking on level ground, but the Gov can fall feet-first into an eight foot pit while at a near-run, the fall catching him completely by surprise, then bounce back to his feet unharmed and trashing Walkers barehanded like nobody's business. Yes, one could argue adrenaline could see him through such a life-or-death situation, but that would presuppose next week seeing him injured...which I very much get the sense isn't/won't be the case.

Yeah, that did annoy the hell out of me. Odd happenstance that makes sense or is a rare occurrence is fine, but after a point it throws all likelihood out the window and that makes me roll my eyes.

[Wyldwraith]

Agreed Aces,
Much has been said about the Gov's slasher-villain-like powers of stealth, great physical strength and fortitude, and what seems to be immunity to serious physical harm not resulting from a moment of high drama. Not to mention his absolutely charmed sense of perfect timing.

One more recent example: Daryl, Michonne, Tyreese and the boozer-medic (I forget his name) enter a building one would expect to be LESS infested with Walkers by FAR when compared with a nursing home full of all-but-completely helpless seniors apparently abandoned wherever they happened to be when the proverbial feces struck the fan, PLUS the slain members of the staff who remained. yet Daryl and Co. only got about sixty seconds of breathing room before Walkers were coming at them from all sides, and from which they escape by a very narrow, very high-risk margin. (Having to bust open a door you KNOW there are a bunch of Walkers behind, with the intention of ploughing through them no less means your potential escape routes have been narrowed almost to the point of nonexistence.)

The Governor, on the other hand, encounters one wheelchair-bound Walker, and one he's able to trap in its room easily, and is setting about completing his oxygen-bottle retrieval errand when he encounters some undead staff members and a couple of old-folk zombies, all coming from one direction, and all easy enough to avoid that he reverses direction for a moment to grab the oxygen tank, and STILL manages to exit by the same means he entered.

Now you can call that nitpicking if you want, but there's a well-established pattern of what can only be described as remarkably good breaks on the Governor's part when it comes to him being forced by circumstance into relatively close quarters with numerous Walkers that at times are downright inexplicable. One of the only examples of someone else being so absolutely swarmed by Walkers, yet emerging bite-free was Tyreese's quasi-suicidal delay in leaving the stranded vehicle, followed by his going all Viking-Berserker with a HORDE closing in from all angles. That scene, where he's madly whacking Walkers with a plain old claw hammer and furious abandon, while COMPLETELY surrounded, and multiple rows of Walkers deep around him was the sort of foolish physical prelude that usually leads to the classic "Zombies bear the victim to the ground via the press of bodies, as the closest zombies in the circle start hauling out lengths of the victims intestines, while others pull the abdominal cavity wide open" scene. When Tyreese hit that Walker from behind that had been obscuring him from the current camera angle and trots on over all fine and dandy physically, with NO depiction of an utterly exhausted Tyreese that might've helped overcome the implausibility of the scene....combined with him wearing a TANK TOP and as previously mentioned armed primarily with an extremely short-range melee weapon...yea that bugged the hell outta me.

All that said, that was only ONE instance of utterly implausible bite-free escape from an encircling horde by Tyreese. I can, just BARELY, suspend my disbelief by justifying it as one-time absolutely freakish luck. The Governor seems to make it a habit, dramatically lowering our sense of Walker danger-levels by making individual Walkers seem so impotent as to merit only the slightest motion in response to it advancing upon him, and proving able to blithely ignore and maneuver among numerous Walkers without coming to harm. A perfect example of this was Andrea turning all those Warehouse-Walkers loose on him from only two or three steps away, yet not only did the Gov emerge victorious despite running out of ammo as the swarm closed in, he was feeling spry enough and cocky enough to beat Andrea to the prison and then somehow lie in wait for her while attracting no attention from any of the two to four dozen Walkers within twenty yards of where he grabbed her. Especially seeing as how he had to completely leave cover to do the grabbing and silencing, with no way of knowing if any of a number of reasons would cause Rick to turn around and thus instantly spot him.

Barbed comments about a Predator-like personal cloaking system are fairly justified. Especially the way he was intently watching the Prison until he turned to face the camera. The man is lacking half his field of vision, yet where's the head-on-a-tilted-swivel situational awareness required to survive all alone for however long it was after Martinez and the other guy bugged out. It frustrates me because David Morrissey is so very capable of effectively conveying complicated behavioral nuances in a host of ways beyond mere dialog. Posture, a dizzying array of tones of voice, subtle to pronounced facial expressions, even the sort of dramatic just-a-moment-longer delay in his responding to someone, that it absolutely goes without saying that it's a matter of writing or direction...which could be an honest enough oversight.

In a survival-horror-based drama however, especially one that's ascended high enough in quality (and therefore popularity) to suck in a large % of otherwise not zombie-fans, and which is given the consideration of any other well-done serious TV drama by critics and the like, those who are part of TWD's creative process on an episodic level are among the people you want and expect to keep surprising you by setting the bar for the show higher and higher.

Is it a minor thing? Unquestionably. Is it a very obvious thing to those giving their full attention to what's happening onscreen? I believe the answer to be an emphatic yes. The classic successful lone zombie attack is nearly always a stealth-grab/bite. The zombie lurches out from the opposite side of the tree along the trail just as you pass by, and smacks into you from behind. The legless/partially paralyzed zombie crawls out from beneath an old car wreck you stopped next to for a few moments. Etc, Etc, Etc. It therefore follows that a readily apparent degree of vigilance/situational awareness would be all but expected from those who've lasted this long.

Another plot-point revolving around situational awareness. The dropped fruitbasket, and then blood trail leading to the lame girl's tattooed severed leg. You watch Rick and Carol cross a wide-open area to reach the point they see the dropped basket, and you wonder how in the Hell a Walker even got close enough to make the kill since Helen Keller would've noticed a staggering corpse cross fifty yards of obstruction-free road/sidewalk/front lawns as it approached someone. In THIS case, however, they make an emphatic point of portraying the "hippie pair" as lacking zombie-apocalypse survival skills. So that sort of one-off you automatically give a pass.

The Governor is another matter entirely, and here's my underlying point about the Gov: If they focused a bit more on some of the behavioral details that Morrissey is undoubtedly capable of portraying, the writing wouldn't NEED to give him one series of implausible breaks after another to serve the needs of the story. Take the warehouse where Andrea turned the Walkers loose on him: If the Gov had done something like immediately (as in before he was all but in a clinch with several Walkers) bull-rush a Walker that momentarily didn't have another behind it, thus knocking it down...and then, say, jump through the glass of one of the windows, his catching up to Andrea down the line would've been much more plausible. Instead they leave an escape from a dire predicament offscreen and go with a Jason Vorhees-style "stealth blitz" attack.

The Walking Dead has, to be fair and after last season to my surprise continued to improve in many ways. It's a very good show, yet the difference between very good and absolutely great is a collection of small things done very well, or attention to detail if you prefer. Many times the actual structure even of an otherwise unpopular episode is quite sound, but the ball got dropped in one or two significant ways. Was it absolutely in-character for the Governor to tie Andrea to his torture chair after her perceived betrayal and demand Milton kill her? You bet. Was Milton's inexperienced attempt to stab the Governor very believable? Again yes. The Governor reversing and burying the knife in Milton's guts, then leaving him to die slowly and then reanimate to become the Gov's undead tool of execution? Does one need to ask?

Then Andrea gets all yappy despite the fact the clock is counting down to her being eaten alive, and completely stopping her efforts to escape every time she opened her mouth. ONE utterly implausible character action, and it becomes IRRELEVANT that much of the episode was great stuff. The overall effect of that ONE script-decision wrecked an episode and took away from the drama of Andrea's passing after the tragic farewells. Details. Ask yourself this: Out of the episodes you didn't like at all, how many times was it one key thing in the plot going wrong that dragged down and otherwise-viable plotline. From my perspective I've seen very few episodes that were simply garbage. On the contrary, 90% of the time when I don't care for an episode it's because of the proverbial single bad apple spoiling the barrel.

[MinionZombie]

TWD 4x06 Memes:
http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/governor-edition-walking-dead-4x06-memes.html



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:)


Oh, why do you guys think he ditched the food he was given from the girls?

As an aside, I really want that mac he wears with the upright collar...it's well smart.

1) I read it as him not wanting to receive gifts out of some form of guilt - like he was punishing himself ... it was a bloody waste of spaghetti hoops, mind! :D

2) Yeah, it's well snazzy! :cool:

...

Flicking back through it, I realised where he got the name "Brian Heriot" from - the side of that barn.

TWD: The Road to Woodbury Spoiler:
In my previous post in the thread I pondered if it was a reference to the first book's reveal that The Governor was Brian, not Philip, and that he was Penny's uncle ... I'd forgotten that he saw "Brian" on the building, but I suppose that in itself is a little reference.

It makes sense to not introduce that whole 'identity switch' idea into the show, it'd just muddy the waters and come off as a late-in-the-game switch that wouldn't be needed. So, indeed, that really is TG's wife and child in the photo.

That'll teach me to not pay Ludovico-level attention to detail when watching TWD! :D

...

I really dug this episode. Overall very good indeed.

As for twisting ankles - well, it's just one of those things - you can twist an ankle piss easy without even trying. Clearly what she did was turn her body without moving her foot, so she lost her balance, and it was just the angle she went down that messed it up.

I twisted my ankle a few years ago really badly on a slightly bumpy path when I lost my balance (and then, two weeks later - just as it was really beginning to heal up - slipped on black ice and f*cked it all over again! :rolleyes:)

With TG, sure, he was running full-pelt, but the drop was so unexpected that he wouldn't be tensing up, and the pit isn't too wide, so he'd knock into the side wall and take some of the oomph out of it - plus it's just the luck of the draw. He could have just as easily knackered his ankle as not. Stranger things happen every day.

[AcesandEights]

As for twisting ankles - well, it's just one of those things - you can twist an ankle piss easy without even trying. Clearly what she did was turn her body without moving her foot, so she lost her balance, and it was just the angle she went down that messed it up.

I twisted my ankle a few years ago really badly on a slightly bumpy path when I lost my balance (and then, two weeks later - just as it was really beginning to heal up - slipped on black ice and f*cked it all over again! :rolleyes:)

With TG, sure, he was running full-pelt, but the drop was so unexpected that he wouldn't be tensing up, and the pit isn't too wide, so he'd knock into the side wall and take some of the oomph out of it - plus it's just the luck of the draw. He could have just as easily knackered his ankle as not. Stranger things happen every day.

It's just all horribly contrived after a whle. If it were being done for comic effect in a spoof of the genre it might be hillarious, but it comes off as a bit lazy when you see example stacked on top of example in a single episode.

Uh, oh...the Gov get's his Governor-sense a' tinglin', just as...woopsie, young healthy girl turns her ankle on level pavement as the Gov rounds the bend to see...a horde of zombies :rolleyes:

I don't think I'm too picky usually, but that's just lazy, and it's just one example.

[kidgloves]

I knew i'd seen the actress playing Lilly somewhere before.
She played Bobs wife Kim in The Unit. Well I never :).
I agree with others about the contrived falling over etc. Surely there must be a better way of setting the situation up.

[Andy]

It's just all horribly contrived after a whle. If it were being done for comic effect in a spoof of the genre it might be hillarious, but it comes off as a bit lazy when you see example stacked on top of example in a single episode.

Uh, oh...the Gov get's his Governor-sense a' tinglin', just as...woopsie, young healthy girl turns her ankle on level pavement as the Gov rounds the bend to see...a horde of zombies :rolleyes:

I don't think I'm too picky usually, but that's just lazy, and it's just one example.

The bottom of that pit looked pretty soft to me too.. The Gov' landed in mud.

All in all, a real change of pace but a fantastic episode i thought. I actually found myself feeling sorry for the gov' then later on actually cheering him on.

Now thats some good writing!

[MinionZombie]

The bottom of that pit looked pretty soft to me too.. The Gov' landed in mud.

All in all, a real change of pace but a fantastic episode i thought. I actually found myself feeling sorry for the gov' then later on actually cheering him on.

Now thats some good writing!

I was gonna just say the same thing myself. I was feeling sorry for him, and then that scene where he was playing chess I was rooting for him ... it was also a creepy scene in a way, how he was talking about pawns, and protecting the King (and how that's the one you want to go after), and then she drew his patch onto the white king ... it was a strange scene (in a cool way), one part creepy and one part endearing.

We got to see the man he was before, albeit in scattered moments flecked with sadness and regret.

Don't get me wrong, he still has to die, he's done so many terrible things that he must be punished for, but yeah - it's great how they were able to get us rooting for the enemy (on a personal level, anyway). This was his chance to 'change his history' as the showmakers talked about on the behind the scenes videos, to try and put his evil deeds in the past after months of wandering the wilderness alone in near-rags, and become someone new ... but he can't outrun his past ... but now he just has something to live for again ... ... for now.

[Ragnarr]

This episode is a good example of why a TWD spin-off series would work well I think. It was fun to see what happened to the Governor since we last saw him, him drifting down the road like a stoned Snake Plissken, encountering (for some strange reason yet uninformed) survivors, and what not. Knowing how the Gov can snap at any moment had me waiting for him to do so in nearly every scene.

[AcesandEights]

The bottom of that pit looked pretty soft to me too.. The Gov' landed in mud.

All in all, a real change of pace but a fantastic episode i thought. I actually found myself feeling sorry for the gov' then later on actually cheering him on.

Now thats some good writing!

You're too late, Andy. I've already babombed the episode!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/BaBombed_zps7d32f832.jpg

[facestabber]

I would like to elaborate more but I got my hands on a PS4. Not adrenaline inducing but I didn't care. I enjoyed the story very much. And how lucky is the governor to come across two completely doable chics?

Agreeing with Wylde about reactions from Daryl but even more so I want tyrese, Daryl Michonne and Bob to sit everybody down and speak about the possible impending doom of 7,000+ walkers.

[Neil]

Rick kills Daryl tonight...

-20 points to you then :)

- - - Updated - - -


It was actually a pretty good episode. A little slow but it didn't detract from it.

This episode shows more of the world they're in, which is what I like to see. There doesn't have to be action all the time IMO.
I just get sick of the same ol shit with the prison, and contrived plot threads. This was a refreshing break from all that. Looks like the next episode will explore things further.
Last 3 episodes have been pretty damn good. Hope that continues...

This is the kind of episode this (or the new series) cries out for. Stand alone threads of story line, that weave in/out with others only if/when they really need to.

- - - Updated - - -


Don't get me wrong, he still has to die, he's done so many terrible things that he must be punished for, but yeah - it's great how they were able to get us rooting for the enemy (on a personal level, anyway). This was his chance to 'change his history' as the showmakers talked about on the behind the scenes videos, to try and put his evil deeds in the past after months of wandering the wilderness alone in near-rags, and become someone new ... but he can't outrun his past ... but now he just has something to live for again ... ... for now.

I though the episode was going to end with him turning up at the prison and handing over the survivors to them, as he knew that's where their best chance was...

Nice to see I predicted wrong :)

[kidgloves]

-20 points to you then :)

- - - Updated - - -

This is the kind of episode this (or the new series) cries out for. Stand alone threads of story line, that weave in/out with others only if/when they really need to.

- - - Updated - - -



I though the episode was going to end with him turning up at the prison and handing over the survivors to them, as he knew that's where their best chance was...

Nice to see I predicted wrong :)

Im expecting something to happen to the Governors newly adopted family as a direct result of something Team Prison do. This is then the catalyst for the Governors total flip out and war ensues

[Moon Knight]

Such a fresh and interesting episode. With just one episode they really made me care for The Governor. So many little cool touches like the Chessgame with Meghan and Brian folding the picture in half so he could forever shield his eyes of his former self. A risky episode for sure but one that beautifully pays off.

As far as what MZ had to say...

I bet Bob is at that camp in this coming episode "Dead Weight".

[Wyldwraith]

Still,
You can say luck of the draw, but if I draw the Ace of Spades every single time we play high-card, the word "cheater" is gonna start rolling around in your brain. The ONLY time that an implausible break hasn't served the Gov's interests was his confrontation with Michonne, which as I said was a mandated moment of high drama/plot setup point.

We're back to an old gripe about TWD. DRAMATICALLY differing levels of threat posed by Walkers under the same circumstances, just because it's convenient. As for the "the bottom of the pit was soft" point, given that he dropped far enough, and had enough forward momentum when he went into the pit, loose earth would make it MORE likely, not less, that someone would twist an ankle or somesuch. The bottom is soft, so you hit it feet-first, one of your feet gets buried a few inches into the loose-ish dirt, and the forward momentum he had going when he felt into the pit provides the "levering point" on the ankle/knee. As for not tensing up, he was carrying a child in his arms and running from a threatening situation. You'd better BELIEVE he was holding her tightly!

I'll keep it relatively brief and close with a comment many have agreed with in the past. Under relatively equal circumstances, the Walker threat-level could be, and NEEDS to become more stable. Ping-ponging between "I can avoid Walkers with the slightest leaning out of the way" and desperate high-adrenaline moves required to dodge a singular Walker create a discordant note. EITHER a single Walker in a wide open space is a pitiable thing a child could avoid assuming no mobility-hampering injuries, or they're variable-speed, never know how a given Walker will move or at what rate/what level of coordination. They do a Zombie School for zombie extras, so this wouldn't be a terribly difficult thing to relatively standardize. I get that the mood/tone of certain episodes can be served by altering Walker danger-lvls, but I'm sure with a little thought alternative mechanisms that serve the story equally well could be devised.

Finally, from everything we've seen so far this Season, the general area depicted in the show is filling up with more and more Walkers by the day, similar to how the herd drifted into the woods adjacent to Herschel's farm. Daryl and Co. run into a mega-herd on a side-road, more Walkers than we've seen before...in relatively constant surges in Walker population at the Prison, the large herd partially on the road and partially scattered in the adjacent woods that the Gov and Co. encounter. You get the feeling that the writers are preparing us for a Hellish tidal wave of undead flesh surging in to confront the characters is in the offing.

Ok, really finally now: One thing I'd like to see, not all the time, just once in a long while, is the characters picking up on why a herd "happens" to have wandered into their area. Be it an understated depiction of a main highway that's impassible, that maybe is/was the only reasonable/viable way forward for a herd you see the Survivors hard-pressed to negotiate a vehicle through. Or Daryl and Co. on a run coming upon a group of recently-slaughtered foolish Survivors whose actions pulled in a bunch of Walkers...the possibilities are endless. I just don't want the appearance of large herds to ALWAYS just be "And suddenly the group became aware that there's a herd in close proximity." Keep the unpredictable almost-natural-disaster-like feel of herd movement most of the time, but every now and again feed us a visual cue that's SUGGESTIVE of why the current herd has moved this way (from the characters point of view).

As an example: The way they depicted it, you get the feeling that, if not for what turned out to be EPICALLY bad timing for a couple gunshots during the Rick Vs Shane and subsequent Carl putting down the Shane-Walker, the herd they flashed over to that was moving through the woods in a general flow that seemed to be passing the farm by was influenced to shift direction and pour into the area of the farm directly because of the sensory-stimuli of the gunshots attracting them. That kind of thing is pure gold, and I'd like to see similar cues for "And why are there so many damned Walkers here all of a sudden?" sort of thoughts on a character's part.

[Neil]

The only thing I didn't like about the episode - and these are petty - were:-
1) After all this time they didn't know walkers only died from head injuries? Really? They've survived year(s) never having killed one?
2) The zombie in the bath is still hold the gun?

As I said, small issues lost in a great episode :)

[MinionZombie]

The only thing I didn't like about the episode - and these are petty - were:-
1) After all this time they didn't know walkers only died from head injuries? Really? They've survived year(s) never having killed one?
2) The zombie in the bath is still hold the gun?

As I said, small issues lost in a great episode :)

1) My impression was (particularly from the novel it was based on) was that they rarely ventured outside of the apartment complex, and gathered most of their supplies from other (empty) apartments ... so it is, just about, plausible ... although even I thought "why not just try the head, give it a quick bash". :p

2) Stephen is still holding his gun as a walker in Dawn of the Dead, and here it was just on his lap, wasn't it? What's the problem?

[Neil]

2) Stephen is still holding his gun as a walker in Dawn of the Dead, and here it was just on his lap, wasn't it? What's the problem?
Holding it for few minutes vs a few years? ie: The zombie clung onto it for all that time?

Anyway, really is a very minor point :)



So this episode followed the comic did it?

[Andy]

1) My impression was (particularly from the novel it was based on) was that they rarely ventured outside of the apartment complex, and gathered most of their supplies from other (empty) apartments ... so it is, just about, plausible ... although even I thought "why not just try the head, give it a quick bash". :p

She said she was in police academy, police will be trained to shoot at the body or limbs but not the head.


So this episode followed the comic did it?

Not really the comic, we dont see much of the governor's background there but he does have a couple of novels detailing his history.

[facestabber]

She said she was in police academy, police will be trained to shoot at the body or limbs but not the head



Not really the comic, we dont see much of the governor's background there but he does have a couple of novels detailing his history.


Sorry my friend but that is completely wrong. Never taught to target limbs. In this order: 1. Center mass 2. If 1 happens and they dont go down HEAD baby(as they may have body armor).

[Neil]

Sorry my friend but that is completely wrong. Never taught to target limbs. In this order: 1. Center mass 2. If 1 happens and they dont go down HEAD baby(as they may have body armor).

In all the films I've seen, (1) shoot gun out of hand?

[MinionZombie]

Holding it for few minutes vs a few years? ie: The zombie clung onto it for all that time?

So this episode followed the comic did it?

1) To be fair it was just lounging around in a bath with no legs, so it wasn't going anywhere, and had nothing to do anyway - nobody rummaging around in its apartment etc, so as we've seen elsewhere, when the walkers have nothing to do or nowhere to go, they'll just stand around (e.g. the walkers in the shop in 3x01 when Michonne rocks up to go aspirin shopping). Again, I recall it being more in its lap. If it has no reason to move, then why would it? Even for an extended period of time (about 18 months at most, but likely a bit less than that ... depending on where this episode fits into the precise timescale between seasons 3 and 4).

2) Nothing to do with the comics. It was specifically taking elements from "The Rise of The Governor", the first tie-in novel ... except in that book it was before he was TG, and the characters and situations were slightly different, but they did take a fair chunk of 4x06's content from that book and adapted it. Pretty cool. Certainly somewhat daring - a side-story not featuring any of the main original cast but is interconnected, and which is not sourced from the comic book specifically, as well as essentially entirely being a flashback episode too.

...

I rather dug the opening sequence set to music. It's the best way to do a montage ... just loved the sight of TG shambling through the streets in a kind of purgatory.

[Neil]

2) Nothing to do with the comics. It was specifically taking elements from "The Rise of The Governor", the first tie-in novel ... except in that book it was before he was TG, and the characters and situations were slightly different, but they did take a fair chunk of 4x06's content from that book and adapted it. Pretty cool. Certainly somewhat daring - a side-story not featuring any of the main original cast but is interconnected, and which is not sourced from the comic book specifically, as well as essentially entirely being a flashback episode too.
Ahhh! I loved the scene where he got up in the morning and the rest of the guys had left him.

Going to be fascinating if these same men now just fall back into line again, or if they now see "Brian" as no one special!

[Legion2213]

In all the films I've seen, (1) shoot gun out of hand?

And shoot petrol tank of car to make a big 'splosion. :D

Police are generally trained to aim for the centre mass though...biggest target, biggest chance of incapacitating the perp.

[AcesandEights]

I rather dug the opening sequence set to music.

Oh MZ, you'll forgive any sins of your beloved! :D

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Ahhh! I loved the scene where he got up in the morning and the rest of the guys had left him.


That was great, it was like coyote ugly for evil dictators...

Castro Ugly?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/tumblr_mwgejmA5Ks1qhcqeqo2_500_zps87654dfa.gif

[Moon Knight]

I don't mind adding music; just not all the time. "Indifference" used it best. Hershel's theme was pretty cool, tho.

[AcesandEights]

I don't mind adding music; just not all the time. "Indifference" used it best. Hershel's theme was pretty cool, tho.

I prefer instrumental, though, and if you are going to add music don't add whiny countryesque knockoff music...it's been done to death.

[babomb]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when his new family finds out he lied about his name, and that he was actually the "leader that lost control". Cop girl apologized to him for lying about being a cop and said she'd never lie to him again.
The Gov is a liar on about the same level as Walter White. Lies constantly for the purpose of manipulation and cold calculation where human behavior is concerned.
He can't make the same promise not to lie again. He's not capable of that.

I wonder if it will be one of his new family that finally does him in?

[Wyldwraith]

I doubt it,
Honestly I don't peg those three as being long for this world. Sprained-ankle girl is currently in grave danger along with her sister, the Gov's new fuck-buddy. And killing off ANOTHER little girl he's coming to identify with in a paternal sense is something you just know has to be as tempting for the writers as a hit of their poison-of-choice is to a jonesing addict.

Of course I could be 100% wrong. I just don't see the Gov ending up watching the Prison in stalker-esque fashion if he's playing house after being welcomed into Martinez's bunch. Again, could be wrong. Maybe he's now possessed of a dual purpose. Revenge AND usurping the Prison for his new group. Time will tell, but I just have a feeling that domestic-type emotional healing isn't something in the cards for the villain we love to hate (and now sometimes pity).

[Moon Knight]

I prefer instrumental, though, and if you are going to add music don't add whiny countryesque knockoff music...it's been done to death.

I prefer instrumental too. However, I just love "Serpents". Just an awesome song that really elevated the comic con trailer.

[Legion2213]

I doubt it,
Honestly I don't peg those three as being long for this world. Sprained-ankle girl is currently in grave danger along with her sister, the Gov's new fuck-buddy. And killing off ANOTHER little girl he's coming to identify with in a paternal sense is something you just know has to be as tempting for the writers as a hit of their poison-of-choice is to a jonesing addict.

Of course I could be 100% wrong. I just don't see the Gov ending up watching the Prison in stalker-esque fashion if he's playing house after being welcomed into Martinez's bunch. Again, could be wrong. Maybe he's now possessed of a dual purpose. Revenge AND usurping the Prison for his new group. Time will tell, but I just have a feeling that domestic-type emotional healing isn't something in the cards for the villain we love to hate (and now sometimes pity).

Aye, would be pointless to reform the Gov...he would be a pointless character if he lost his rage, his pathological hatred of the prison crew and his desire to be the boss of whatever group he is with.

Martinez better watch his back as well...nothing more than a liability/obstacle for the Gov now if he wants to take control of this new group.

[AcesandEights]

Martinez better watch his back as well...nothing more than a liability/obstacle for the Gov now if he wants to take control of this new group.

Oh, totally. Seems like a loss of his family unit will turn 'Brian' back into the Governator and he will take over said group of cut throats. Right?

NEIL--there is a spoiler below, don't read it!!!




This could actually lead up to a confrontation at the prison more in style with the comics.

[MinionZombie]

Ahhh! I loved the scene where he got up in the morning and the rest of the guys had left him.

Going to be fascinating if these same men now just fall back into line again, or if they now see "Brian" as no one special!

Yeah, it was a right old Billy No Mates situation for the old Guvnah, wasn't it? :p

I'm surprised nobody has had a whinge about "ooh, but why didn't The Governor hear them packing up their stuff and leaving in that really grumbly truck?!" ... evidently he's a heavy-ass sleeper. :D

Yep, looking forward to the Martinez situation, who's now the leader. I am thinking Shumpert's been killed off-screen (the actor might be off elsewhere on another gig), as he wasn't in 4x06 at all, and he wasn't seen in the preview for next week either.


I prefer instrumental too. However, I just love "Serpents". Just an awesome song that really elevated the comic con trailer.

Initially I was a bit disappointed in this year's choice of song - but it's grown on me in a big bad way - I always end up loving their song choice for the comic-con trailers. They used an acoustic version of it for when Carol was banished, but I didn't like that version too much ... but the other version would have been too overpowering for the moment. But yeah - excellent track. :)

Some song choices haven't worked so hot for me in the show - such as the track playing as we creep into Woodbury's prison area and it's revealed that Andrea is tied up in the chair ... I never liked that song choice, and still don't. It should have been something much more chilling ... I know they were trying to get people pumped with that last scene, but the song didn't work for me there.

Other times songs have worked wonderfully - using "Civilian" by Wye Oak (used in the season 2 comic-con trailer) during "18 Miles Out" was perfect. It fit the context of the episode like a glove and it was just so cool to hear it as Shane's staring out the window at that lone walker in the field just trudging on.


Aye, would be pointless to reform the Gov...he would be a pointless character if he lost his rage, his pathological hatred of the prison crew and his desire to be the boss of whatever group he is with.

Martinez better watch his back as well...nothing more than a liability/obstacle for the Gov now if he wants to take control of this new group.

Any reformation of his character will be short-lived ... the truth will out in the end, inevitably, but I do like that we're getting to see different sides of him, and that he isn't just a total monster. The comic book counterpart was fairly one-note ... very memorable and iconic, but relatively one-note, a fully-formed psychopath villain ... whereas Morrissey's Governor is far more fleshed-out, far more complex, and far scarier as a result. There's an internal battle raging within him, and he's never the one who ends up on the tragic receiving end of it ... it's always some poor bugger who has been caught in his web by his nice side.

[babomb]

A theory:
Bob is a snake in the grass sent by Martinez' group to sabotage the prison. he's the one feeding the mice to the walkers. They round up walkers from those pits and bring them to the prison. The mice get them all riled up, and the carcass' are inside the fence which riles them up even more.

[Andy]

Was it just me or was TG's new girlfriend.. the nurse.. cant think of her name now... But anyway was it just me or did she really look and sound like maggie?

:shifty:

[Legion2213]

Was it just me or was TG's new girlfriend.. the nurse.. cant think of her name now... But anyway was it just me or did she really look and sound like maggie?

:shifty:

Slight resemblance...helped by the fact that she had pretty much the same hair-do as Maggie...the undead apocalypse obviously hasn't dented the mobile hair dressing trade (or the availability of hot women for that matter...bring that shit on!) :D

(and the govs new woman is a police chick, not the nurse)

[Andy]

Slight resemblance...helped by the fact that she had pretty much the same hair-do as Maggie...the undead apocalypse obviously hasn't dented the mobile hair dressing trade (or the availability of hot women for that matter...bring that shit on!) :D

(and the govs new woman is a police chick, not the nurse)

It was the nurse, the police chick was a lesbian. While they were talking she mentioned her ex-girlfriend.

i dont miss stuff like that dude :lol:

[Legion2213]

It was the nurse, the police chick was a lesbian. While they were talking she mentioned her ex-girlfriend.

i dont miss stuff like that dude :lol:

WTF? I'm gutted...I thought he was smashing the hot police chick!

That means the hot police chick (who is also a lipstick lezza) is the one with the whacked ankle and will be zombie chow in the next episode or so then...damn! :mad:

Can't believe I didn't take all this in the other day! :(

[Moon Knight]

Now I'm totally confused on who's who concerning these women. I assumed The Governor banged the nurse cause Meghan is her daughter. Someone must have been talking in my party cause I didn't catch the line with Tara talking about her ex-girlfriend.

[Legion2213]

Okay wiki says the gov is nobbing "Nurse Lilly", but it's "Cop chick muff diver Tara" who looks like Maggie IMO.

Next episode is called "dead weight"...Tara is dooooomed! :(

[Moon Knight]

Muff Diver lol

[babomb]

That was a brutal way of putting that old man down. Bash his skull in while his family watches. Why not put a knife in his ear? Alot less traumatic for everyone.

And when the Gov falls into the walker pit, he has to kill the walkers all by hand. Why wouldn't he have a weapon on him? Not even a knife? What's the logic here? When you see a group of walkers coming your way, drop all your weapons and run?
This is the lazy writing I'm always talking about. They abandon all logic in order to setup really simple gags. The logic they use is that the Gov has to drop all his weapons and run so that he can fall into the pit and smash a walkers face into another walkers bones, and use another bone to sever a walkers head from its jaw. If he still has his belt on, with his gun and knife, then he'll just use those and the scene won't be as gory or prolongued.
Because that's the important thing, getting the walker deaths and gore in there. To hell with logic and realism.

And then in that same scene they see the group of walkers and drop all their weapons and run, except the little girl. The little girl freezes up, and what does everyone else do? Instead of doing what any able bodied and mentally aware person would do and run over and grab her, they all stand there yelling for her to come. And even worse, the little girls mother pays no attention to the fact that her little girl is frozen in fear. No, she drops everything and runs, leaving her kid standing there.

[Moon Knight]

Lazy writing? C'mon dude just stop watching already. The Governor killing those walkers by hand was fresh and awesome.

This episode was full of interesting things to talk about and still, some of you continue with these dumb ass logic complaints. So negative at every chance possible.

[kidgloves]

Lazy writing? C'mon dude just stop watching already. The Governor killing those walkers by hand was fresh and awesome.

This episode was full of interesting things to talk about and still, some of you continue with these dumb ass logic complains. So negative at every chance possible.

Agreed.
Kills/gags are a staple of the genre. Occasionally the story has to suffer to set up a gag but it has to be there. Personally, I'm extremely impressed with the originality of the gags this season.
Great stuff

[Wyldwraith]

I kinda hate to be on the other side of this argument,
But I agree. Without stuff like "Fall through the ceiling Walkers", "Pop out the hedge Walkers", and yes even the Pit Walkers (Though you'll pardon me if I continue believing that the two prior example were MUCH more well done than the pit gag) it just wouldn't be TWD. Strange situations Walkers are found in is a staple of the show. They clue you in to that right out the gate with Bicycle Walker.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean if they're going for a kill/kills gag that they don't have a responsibility to set it up well. I really didn't mind the "Reach in the throat and tear" kill...I could see an enraged man protecting an icon/personification of his lost little girl plunging his hand into a half-rotted throat and while probably not SEVER the spinal column structurally, twist and break it enough to sever the cord. On the other hand, despite being a cool visual I wouldn't care for it if anatomically unfeasible kills became commonplace. As a one-off gag it's nothing to get worked up over...I mean c'mon, we accept Michonne's "Katana = Lightsaber" action all the time anymore. Ridiculous stuff, like sheering the front half of a skull as cleanly as a bone saw with one off-hand stroke, and the endless #'s of seemingly effortless decapitations and amputations. Zombie killing in TWD falls into a few subtle sub-categories that are employed as the needs of the story...but (more importantly, whether one likes it or not), the need to make the show something the 18-34 Male crowd continues faithfully tuning in to watch will at times trump realism.

The ONE "real" gripe I have related to the topic of zombie-kills in TWD is this: Their use of failed attempts to terminate a Walker by this or that character seemingly on a basis of "realism" ONLY being employed as a mechanism to ratchet up the tension/danger level of a scene. (Such as Carol getting her blade stuck in the Walker's skull when she was outside trying to clear the muck out of the water-tube.) No problem with the mechanism, EXCEPT I'd like to see it happen now and then to a character when a) It doesn't neatly serve the plot's needs at that moment in a fits-like-a-glove way, and b) When it has nothing to do with increased jeopardy to a character. A perfect example of what I'm talking about would be Daryl shooting a Walker in the forehead with his crossbow and the bolt not going deep enough to do the job. Wouldn't automatically place Daryl in grave jeopardy, wouldn't feel contrived, and would add to the grit-level of the show on a realism basis.

However, I'll concede that this is a minor gripe in the big-picture view. TWD has always embraced the Trenchcoating Katana-wielder model of commonly occurring Survival Horror tropes, that's just something one has to accept because it's never going away. The fact they realize Walker-kills in a more "realistic" way the majority of the time is something to celebrate when one considers the full spectrum of nauseatingly cheesy and just downright done-to-death kill gags that litter the genre. Hell, at least no one is pouring cut-in-half dimes down saw-offed shotgun barrels, which magically stay in place as if gripped by magnetism until the protagonist wants to fire despite being carried in barrel-pointing-down-type holsters in TWD. (Just thought I'd toss in a bit of perspective there)

[MinionZombie]

Lazy writing? C'mon dude just stop watching already. The Governor killing those walkers by hand was fresh and awesome.

This episode was full of interesting things to talk about and still, some of you continue with these dumb ass logic complaints. So negative at every chance possible.


Agreed.
Kills/gags are a staple of the genre. Occasionally the story has to suffer to set up a gag but it has to be there. Personally, I'm extremely impressed with the originality of the gags this season.
Great stuff

Agreed with both ye lads on both counts, yarrrr...

*ahem* Pirate mode off...

Just seeing a bunch of head-stabs or head-shots would get lame very quickly if that was all we got. Same with how they crop up in places. Season 4 has really stretched itself to bring in new scenarios and threats (ceiling walkers, kudzu walkers, pit walkers, tree walker, fence walkers, mah-hoo-sive herds, etc).

Also, just maybe, the Governor doesn't have a knife - perhaps he lost it, buried in a walker's skull, and with more coming at him he just had to leave it (remember when Carol nearly got munched when her machete-type deeley got lodged in that walker's noggin when she was clearing out the water hose?) ... three head stabs would have been meh, done before, seen it already ... what we got I've never seen before (tearing a head open with a feckin' bone! :hyper::elol::D) and lovely gloopy practical blood effects (the throat rip is exactly why it's best to go real if you can).

[AcesandEights]

Lazy writing? C'mon dude just stop watching already. The Governor killing those walkers by hand was fresh and awesome.

I think it's pretty fair to call the whole scene from where the Governor takes his surrogate family on the road to his pit and pummel pretty lazy as it both leans too heavily on writer fiat while simultaneously bending the preexisting rules of the story's setting and common sense.

That said, the writing as it pertains to the Governor and his meet up with the family was compelling enough, and it was overall a decent episode.



Kills/gags are a staple of the genre. Occasionally the story has to suffer to set up a gag but it has to be there. Personally, I'm extremely impressed with the originality of the gags this season.
Great stuff
This is a bit more balanced of a view overall...we'll always have to accept certain genre staples, like zombies can bite through denim and often even leather, for example, and new situations like zeds dropping through the roof really do bring a cool factor. I'm still not looking for too much reality bending lunacy in TWD, though. But where people draw lines about cool and eyerolling is going to differ.




Just seeing a bunch of head-stabs or head-shots would get lame very quickly if that was all we got.

Well, I'm sure you and Dave Navarro would both agree on how totally awesome the Gov's throat rip and bone scrape kills were.

...

Was that too low a blow? :confused:



Plus, you guys need to open your eyes and see what's coming down the pipe--this whole Governor story arc is a complete rip off of...Road House.

Let me say that again for the sake of reading comprehension: they are rehashing the storyline from Road House.

-A new stranger saunters into town
-He's a man with a past he's not entirely at peace with
-There's some bad elements in town making it rough for the locals
-He makes a star crossed connection with a lovely lady
-There's an evil bad guy & petty thugs threatening the people the Stranger has just met
-and perhaps most damning of all... the throat rip
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/roadhousestill70_zps2b18d414.jpg


Admit it, I just blew your minds.

[Moon Knight]

Mind blown.

[blind2d]

Heh, Road House... Yeah, true. But still, good ep. I liked all the kills. They were believable and engaging, which is the most important thing, I feel.
She's a lesbian? Oh, no wonder she's the tough one then! Good job propagating stereotypes, guys.
Meh, we'll see where this goes.

[Andy]

Heh, Road House... Yeah, true. But still, good ep. I liked all the kills. They were believable and engaging, which is the most important thing, I feel.
She's a lesbian? Oh, no wonder she's the tough one then! Good job propagating stereotypes, guys.
Meh, we'll see where this goes.

Think their reusing the "rule of one" from season 3 but with lesbians now instead of black people?

Carol leaves so a younger one is brought in, and will be killed just in time for carol's return ;)

:lol:

[Neil]

Think their reusing the "rule of one" from season 3 but with lesbians now instead of black people?

Carol leaves so a younger one is brought in, and will be killed just in time for carol's return ;)

:lol:

Carol was not a todger dodger! :)

[MinionZombie]

Well, I'm sure you and Dave Navarro would both agree on how totally awesome the Gov's throat rip and bone scrape kills were. Was that too low a blow? :confused:

http://charactergrades.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Screen-shot-2012-03-19-at-1.20.37-AM.png

T-Dog is not amused. :shifty:

Cheeky fecker, Aces. :p:D

Who was a worse Talking Dead guest - Dave Navarro or Marilyn Manson? :sneaky:


Plus, you guys need to open your eyes and see what's coming down the pipe--this whole Governor story arc is a complete rip off of...Road House.

Admit it, I just blew your minds.

:lol::lol::lol:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6804/beztytuurlk.jpg
ROAD HOUSE! :cool:

So not only is The Walking Dead a re-telling of Toy Story, it's now a re-telling of Road House. What next ... Back to the Future? I wonder what that would be like... ;)


Think their reusing the "rule of one" from season 3 but with lesbians now instead of black people?

Carol leaves so a younger one is brought in, and will be killed just in time for carol's return ;)

:lol:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--hUr7-dU2R4/UL3Mhp6ygqI/AAAAAAAABFk/GLamVsK5y74/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_3_Meme_Axel_Dating_Tips_00 1_DeadShed.jpg

:cool:

- - - Updated - - -


Carol was not a todger dodger! :)

:lol::lol::lol:

I've never heard that one before.

[babomb]

To clarify, I don't have a problem with the walker kills or gags at all. I know they're a staple and I wouldn't want them gone, it's not the kills/gags I have issue with. It's the setup for them as with the pit walkers. I think they could've come up with a better way to show those kills without abandoning logic.

[rongravy]

Who was a worse Talking Dead guest - Dave Navarro or Marilyn Manson? :sneaky:

Navarro by a mile in second place behind Kevin Smith. I actually kind of found Manson to be more interesting than I usually don't...
:elol:


As far as this episode, it reminded me of South Park in two ways:
1. It reminded me of the episode following the cliffhanger where they were going to tell who Cartman's dad really was, though they never did. Instead of showing the conclusion, they aired a Terrence and Phillip episode instead. Although I personally loved it, alot of people were super pissed. I felt this way watching this turd of an episode, cheated.
2. The Governor's gawd awful beard reminded me of the episode where Kyle is in a hospital bed with a full beard, and when he wakes up, they remove his "face warmer". I also cringed at how easy it was to just go back to looking like a baller again, exactly like before his Forrest Gump trekking across the apocalyptic wasteland...
I did not like this episode, more so than last season's Andrea/Michonne hanging out in Woodbury one. I found it all hokey, and the kills in the pit?
Ugh. Whilst I realize you can't just do the same old same old, that was just plain silly. They might as well have had him choking them down like Steve Martin in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid when he heard a certain couple of specific words together...
"Cleaning woma-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-n!!!

[Ragnarr]

Ahhh! I loved the scene where he got up in the morning and the rest of the guys had left him.

Going to be fascinating if these same men now just fall back into line again, or if they now see "Brian" as no one special!

Actually Governor Brian is going to likely have some explaining to do to his new friends when his old friends begin filling them in on the massacre on the road, the severed heads aquarium, etc. etc. besides "Brian" not being his real name.

[Andy]

Carol was not a todger dodger! :)

Sure.... so she says.

Just a coincidence, thats all :)


Actually Governor Brian is going to likely have some explaining to do to his new friends when his old friends begin filling them in on the massacre on the road, the severed heads aquarium, etc. etc. besides "Brian" not being his real name.

If their following the novels, his real name IS brian, he was lying when he said philip.

[MinionZombie]

Good point Ragnarr - I was so distracted by everything else going on that I hadn't thought of them revealing to Lilly & Co what TG's past is.

Andy - on "Brian" and the first novel:
I don't think they're following the novel on the "Brian" issue.

In this episode TG gets the name from the side of that barn with all the graffiti on it - "Brian Heriot" - Morrissey said TG chose the name as it was a chance to be someone else and try and discard his past (when Lilly & Co asked him his name), and that he also chose it because judging from the words on the barn, Brian Heriot was someone that people cared about.

I did wonder if they might be referencing that part of the first novel, but no - there'd be too much to do in order to put in that twist, plus it's too late now. We didn't even get to see his brother - there wasn't even a mention of him having a brother from what I recall in season three - so the identity switch with his brother isn't part of the show, which I think is the right thing to do on the TV version.

[Andy]

Good point Ragnarr - I was so distracted by everything else going on that I hadn't thought of them revealing to Lilly & Co what TG's past is.

Andy - on "Brian" and the first novel:
I don't think they're following the novel on the "Brian" issue.

In this episode TG gets the name from the side of that barn with all the graffiti on it - "Brian Heriot" - Morrissey said TG chose the name as it was a chance to be someone else and try and discard his past (when Lilly & Co asked him his name), and that he also chose it because judging from the words on the barn, Brian Heriot was someone that people cared about.

I did wonder if they might be referencing that part of the first novel, but no - there'd be too much to do in order to put in that twist, plus it's too late now. We didn't even get to see his brother - there wasn't even a mention of him having a brother from what I recall in season three - so the identity switch with his brother isn't part of the show, which I think is the right thing to do on the TV version.

Yeah i noticed the name on the garage, hence why i wasnt sure if they where going that direction or not.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah i noticed the name on the garage, hence why i wasnt sure if they where going that direction or not.

I think that because it came from the side of the barn in this episode, they're not going to go the novel route on that particular issue.

[zombieparanoia]

This epsiode sucked balls. And not in a good way.


The intro was basically 5 minutes of the governor showing off his zombie protection cheat codes. I didn't realize that in TWD all you had to do was a small side step to evade and lose a zombie that was coming right for you. The one on the sidewalk he barely steps out of its path and it just kind of carries on past. And the walkers don't follow you or anything if you're the governor.

The ridiculous "new family" WTF?? So these people have not only managed to stay completely uninformed about the zombies and how to destroy them during the entire rise of zombies, fall of civilization and year or so post apocalypse because they have a truckful of canned goods and pepperoni sticks parked outside? That noone else in all the time since the zombie apocalypse started ever looked at or tried to take? While we're at it why are there basically no zombies outside the building? every other place the living gather seems to draw the walkers like flies to crap. They don't seem to have any barricades or traps. They don't even lock their doors!

Nobody locks their doors! :mad: I mean ok, not everyone is going to fully barricade their sleeping spot for the night but the governor who is supposed to be fresh off months on the road solo and is nuttier than squirrel shit, doesn't even lean a chair against the door and sleeps on the couch in front of the door? It's one of the things that bothers me the most about this series, the total lack of any character acting at least as security conscious as a person does who is sitting at home watching the show. team prison doesn't even think to close their doors until it's too late a second time!

Them running into martinez at the end, I don't know who is dumber for not immediately shooting the other in the face martinez or the governor. Martinez knows who the governor is and what he's capable of and has abandoned the governor once already. Either of them should want to kill the other on sight.

Looks like the next episode is still in camp woodbury 2.0 so we can expect the writers are going to have daryl do something crazy about Carol in the midseason finale. All cliffhanger like.

[Wyldwraith]

Honestly I didn't want to be so critical,
But if I'm honest with myself I agree with you completely zombieparanoia. That tiny sidestep and the Walker just sorta falling past him, then its just gone, irritated the HELL out of me. (Yes writers, I understand you were in Dramatic Montage Mode, but C'MON!) The uninformed family was more than a bit implausible after exposure to Morgan and his late son, who were FAR more realistic examples of the "Sit tight and dig in" zombie apocalypse survivors. They brutally sacrificed all sense of realism to make the Governor's meeting up with, interaction with, (Including the run for the oxygen tank. Daryl, Michonne, Tyreese and Bob can't sneak into an abandoned VETERINARY SCHOOL without Walkers flooding out at them from damned near every direction, but the Governor can waltz into a nursing home full of all its undead elderly residents and undead staff and out again like it's no big deal to wander into a building full to the brim with zombies.)

Things got a bit better when the Governor smashed in the old guy's face just as he reanimated and grabbed the grieving girl. Then kinda nosedived again with the dramatically-convenient sprained ankle on level ground, followed seconds later by the spotting of a huge herd on an otherwise deserted country side road. I mean I've got NO problem with the notion that herds wander aimlessly, fits the genre perfectly. However, why were they all just bunched up at one spot in the bend in the road at the perfect spot not to be seen by anyone headed down the road until they turned the corner? When they did it to Rick in one of the first season episodes it made FAR more season. It was a major metropolitan area, a narrow street between two large buildings that would funnel the Walkers together etc etc.

Here's another question: Walkers are as stupid as rocks. Why would Martinez build a pit hidden behind a slight rise in the ground, when a) Said rise in the ground would actively encourage Walkers to skirt around it, (thus skirting the pit), because if you notice you can see off to the Gov's right just as he goes into the pit the ground is tabletop-flat like five feet to the right, and b) Is completely unnecessary if the purpose is to catch Walkers, and poses a massive threat to any human traversing the area?

Any one or two of the little things that went wrong with this episode could, if they were otherwise isolated occurrences, be called minor flaws/nitpicks. The problem with this episode is its absolutely littered with these individually small implausibilities, to the extent they build and build upon each other into a completely implausible viewing experience.

Lastly, a big AGREED with the sentiment about Martinez shooting the Gov in the head the INSTANT he laid eyes on him. Martinez has witnessed the Governor mass-murder people he'd lived with and lead for months, simply for running for their lives with Walkers popping out of doors in the dark, sirens going off, and people firing automatic weapon at them as they came out the door. His (Martinez) "betrayal" was MUCH greater, quietly ditching the Gov and thus endangering him as he slept. Martinez should be thinking "OH SHIT, this crazy S.O.B iced thirty people cuz they ran for their lives. He'll kill my ass if he makes it out of that pit alive!"

All in all something of a disappointment after the very well-timed and menacing manner in which he appears as the Gov spies on the goings-on at the Prison. They have GOT TO STOP this nonsense with the Governor seeming absolutely invulnerable to Walkers no matter how dire the circumstances/how much they favor the Walkers.

Comparison: Two of Team Prison's VERY BEST fighters, a big muscular African-American man, and an army medic veritably armed to the teeth only NARROWLY escape from a building the ONLY POSSIBLE REASON I can imagine humans stayed in was due to its relatively heavy/seemingly-secure construction. That turns out to not ONLY be absolutely TEEMING with Walkers INSIDE, but ALSO has large groups of Walkers dotted all around the immediate area.

The Governor, alone, enters a building logic would dictate is almost CERTAINLY brimming with Walkers and yet he gets out the same way he came in because this large # of Walkers can't even manage to cut off one hallway space already half-blocked by Wheelchair Walker.

The problem with displaying numerous scenes where Walkers are absolutely no problem for the Governor is it destroys the very possibility of tension and uncertainty in every future encounter between the Governor and Walkers. Ie: If they couldn't get him while his gun's empty in a narrow warehouse-space, and they couldn't TOUCH him in a narrow old folks home hallway, why should I the viewer ever believe the character is in anymore danger than Rick Grimes?

[MinionZombie]

1) If Martinez shot TG as soon as he saw him - there goes the plot of the rest of the season. :rolleyes:

2) When Martinez first lays eyes on him - he's got a child wrapped in his arms right next to his head!

[zombieparanoia]

1) If Martinez shot TG as soon as he saw him - there goes the plot of the rest of the season. :rolleyes:

2) When Martinez first lays eyes on him - he's got a child wrapped in his arms right next to his head!


Disagree on both points. 1. Martinez and his new group could easily fill whatever threat to the prison that the governor was intended to play in the further season, they've already shown the group to be marauders who have a "might makes right" ideology. Martinez is no slouch at being a cold blooded mofo either, both in his actions on behalf of woodbury and when he watched and didn't stop the governor as gov killed the entire "woodbury army" on a whim for basically no reason. Those people would have been martinezs friends and neighbors. 2. At that range? Not a concern hitting the child, considering how they've implied martinez is pretty handy with a gun. Or wait until the moment he puts the kid down.

[zomtom]

This latest episode was probably my least favorite of the season, so far. That's why I haven't commented on it until now. I was all hyped up and waiting for Daryl to rip Rick a new asshole (about the Carol banishment), and I ended up with a whole episode away from the prison. For me it was a let down. That being a said, I must say, I am naïve enough to feel bad for the Gov., considering I know he is a monster. Still, can he ever be forgiven for all of the atrocities he's committed? I know one thing; if I were a writer for TWD, I would be hanging out on this site, getting lots of ideas on how the hell the fans actually feel.

- - - Updated - - -

This latest episode was probably my least favorite of the season, so far. That's why I haven't commented on it until now. I was all hyped up and waiting for Daryl to rip Rick a new asshole (about the Carol banishment), and I ended up with a whole episode away from the prison. For me it was a let down. That being a said, I must say, I am naïve enough to feel bad for the Gov., considering I know he is a monster. Still, can he ever be forgiven for all of the atrocities he's committed? I know one thing; if I were a writer for TWD, I would be hanging out on this site, getting lots of ideas on how the hell the fans actually feel.

[Wyldwraith]

I agree that it was poor timing to duck away from the Prison right now, before letting us see Rick lay out the Carol issue for Daryl, and Daryl's reaction to that.
The way it's done gives you the feeling they just wanted to create a contrived sort of cliffhanger for the midseason break. Honestly, I can't understand TWD writers sometimes. These are men and women paid to immerse themselves creatively in the plot-continuity, yet they often seem to lack an understanding of plot flow. The time to do the sit-down with Daryl should have been what we saw last Sunday, THEN do this stuff with "What's the Governor been up to?"

I say that because they have Rick immediately communicate what he did about Carol to Maggie and Herschel pretty much at his earliest opportunity. The group Daryl led on the run to the Vet Hospital then returns, and once things are settled down Daryl asks Herschel where Carol is. Herschel gives a "I'm staying out of it" sort of response, redirecting Daryl to Rick....we're all waiting to see what happens when the shoe drops and Rick tells Daryl what he did, and then......cut away to completely unconnected plot elements. Now, no matter WHAT they do with regards to Rick explaining himself to Daryl, a large chunk of the tension surrounding Daryl's possible reactions to the news is gone. Had there been a compelling story reason to sacrifice that tension, all well and good. Unfortunately, a pseudo-pathos-ridden Governor-centric catchup Montage is NOT what I would call a compelling story reason. Unlike the Rick/Daryl face-off, the depiction of the Gov's recent past had nothing about it to say: "This fits right here."

Add to that the high degree of probability that the writers will have the Rick-character spew something like "I made the choice that was best for the group, and best for Carol." Then, Daryl will either a) Be seen as blithely accepting this, or b) Will be readying himself to go find Carol, until either a plea from Rick about the people here needing Daryl more than Carol does right now, or Michonne regurgitating a warped version of Daryl's own reasoning about why he thought she should stop going out to look for the Governor. You know, stuff about Daryl having no idea where to look for her.

Lastly, one point I highly doubt we ever see raised is Daryl angrily pointing out that Rick had no right to sit on that info during the interval between Daryl's group returning and when Rick gets around to telling Daryl what's what. By delaying disclosure, Rick has made it exponentially more difficult for Daryl to find Carol....if not impossible. I think that, however we each might individually view Rick's call about Carol from our own moral perspectives, that we should all be able to agree Rick has no morally-justifiable reason to delay disclosure to one of the parties most impacted by his decision. Sitting on the info amounts to Rick attempting to make Daryl's decision for him. (And it's not like Rick doesn't know that's the most likely course for Daryl to take, based on his established pattern of behavior...or if not outright "know"...Rick has every reason to BELIEVE Daryl would go tearing off after someone he cared for that was in danger.)

[sandrock74]

Why does everyone assume Daryl will fly off the handle about Carol's banishment? Maybe initially being upset about it, as a knee jerk reaction, but it shouldn't take him (or anyone) long to realize Rick essentially spared her from the wrath of Tyresse. Rick didn't just throw her out into the wilds; he made sure she had a car load of supplies, weapons and gas. It doesn't mean Daryl would be happy about it, but not all going crazy over it either.

[Buzzbomb]

This series has (for me) been excellent so far. The end of each episode has left me pondering over what happens next and left me eagerly looking forward to the following week.

After last week's closing shot and this weeks "Live Bait" title, I'd kind of expected the Governor to show up at the Prison with Carol on the end of the hook... But then came this week's mind-fcuk.

Sure there have been niggles with Series #4, but I doubt any 'Zombie' flick would stand up to the same scrutiny that's heaped on TWD. (and for the record, the big box of guns in last weeks episode looked like it was a waste bin or laundry basket with wheels).

The Governor's spell in the wilderness - to me he seems like someone who ultimately defines himself by his role as a father. He's beyond redemption, but this weeks encounters with the biters/walkers just show someone who's sunk to the point where he doesn't really give a toss about his own fate - and now has something to live for.

Martinez could have easily shot the Governor rather than abandon him in the first place, so there's no reason for him to do now?

If/when the Governor shows up at team prison, I wonder if Rick will ask him 3 questions...:clown:

I can't help but wonder if Carol is now in the same group as Martinez.... and there's still the unanswered question over the likely murder of the hippie chick & wherabouts of Sam?

Wanna-be police woman should learn to tie her shoe-laces...

Roll on next week!

PS: I find it amazing that the vehicles in TWD that have been standing for 2 years plus, still work without needing a major overhaul.

[AcesandEights]

Why does everyone assume Daryl will fly off the handle about Carol's banishment? Maybe initially being upset about it, as a knee jerk reaction, but it shouldn't take him (or anyone) long to realize Rick essentially spared her from the wrath of Tyresse. Rick didn't just throw her out into the wilds; he made sure she had a car load of supplies, weapons and gas. It doesn't mean Daryl would be happy about it, but not all going crazy over it either.

I agree, I think people are setting the table to have something to complain about based on a false premise.

[MinionZombie]

PS: I find it amazing that the vehicles in TWD that have been standing for 2 years plus, still work without needing a major overhaul.

Erm, the green mini van they find at the kudzu-covered garage? They had to get a new battery, and even then they had to get the battery working again, so there was a fair bit of work to get that car working again so they could continue their journey.

There are times, yes, when you think "well, that battery would be flat by now" ... but on the other hand, it'd be too clunky/awkward/impossible to then have to write in the boring mechanics of finding a new battery - you've got to keep the main plot moving, so if it's not part of the scene at large, leave it aside and remain focused on the story. :)

[Buzzbomb]

There are times, yes, when you think "well, that battery would be flat by now" ... but on the other hand, it'd be too clunky/awkward/impossible to then have to write in the boring mechanics of finding a new battery - you've got to keep the main plot moving, so if it's not part of the scene at large, leave it aside and remain focused on the story. :)

True... it wouldn't just be the battery though (and would you drink 2 year old distilled water like Darryl did?)...

Aside from the battery, I'd expect there'd be a few mechanical problems, with rust / corrosion taking it's toll and water condensing in the fuel tank? and Fuel would be pretty scarce - in the initial days of the outbreak there would have been a lot of panic buying & folks on the move - supplies disrupted etc.

At least Michone arrived on horseback this series, which reminded me of the 70s 'Survivors' BBC TV show, where they were were vehicle-less pretty soon after the apocalypse hit.

TWD has gone some way in showing the inevitable decay in the man made infra-structure. (Last series, when Merl did his zombie 'pied piper' bit, his tyres were flat, which I thought was a nice touch, and then there's recently been a noticeable increase in the vegetation reclaiming the streets...)

It'd probably be too difficult to do with TV, but it'd be nice to see the effects of time on the state of the roads. It's been a while since I read it, but I think Terry Nation's "Survivors" book describes how the pot-holes created by winter ice etc made some roads impossible to travel.

PS: re not locking doors - it occurred to me that if the stairs were wooden, they could have removed a section so walkers could not have reached the upper floors & and the living could have placed a temporary walkway over the gap when needed.

[babomb]

True... it wouldn't just be the battery though (and would you drink 2 year old distilled water like Darryl did?)...

Aside from the battery, I'd expect there'd be a few mechanical problems, with rust / corrosion taking it's toll and water condensing in the fuel tank? and Fuel would be pretty scarce - in the initial days of the outbreak there would have been a lot of panic buying & folks on the move - supplies disrupted etc.

At least Michone arrived on horseback this series, which reminded me of the 70s 'Survivors' BBC TV show, where they were were vehicle-less pretty soon after the apocalypse hit.

TWD has gone some way in showing the inevitable decay in the man made infra-structure. (Last series, when Merl did his zombie 'pied piper' bit, his tyres were flat, which I thought was a nice touch, and then there's recently been a noticeable increase in the vegetation reclaiming the streets...)

It'd probably be too difficult to do with TV, but it'd be nice to see the effects of time on the state of the roads. It's been a while since I read it, but I think Terry Nation's "Survivors" book describes how the pot-holes created by winter ice etc made some roads impossible to travel.

PS: re not locking doors - it occurred to me that if the stairs were wooden, they could have removed a section so walkers could not have reached the upper floors & and the living could have placed a temporary walkway over the gap when needed.
What's wrong with 2 year old distilled water?

The way they cruise around in vehicles is something that's always bugged me. They never run out of gas, but you never see them forage for it either. They must have some place that's stocked up well on unleaded, and well out of the way that nobody else has found it and tried to declare it. But you never see them go there. And it would have to be a place that's setup for long term fuel storage. Normal gas stations don't have gas long enough for it to be stabilized long term.
Realistically, all the vehicles on the road that long after the outbreak would be diesel. It's easier to come by, lasts longer in storage, gets better mileage.
And if push comes to shove you can make bio-diesel.
I know it's not a survival documentary, but damn, you'd think they'd put SOME thought into the details of survival since they're making a show that takes place in the apocalypse. They just pretend it isn't an issue. But at some point it has to become an issue. They can't be in season 7, 6 years into the outbreak, and all the cars are still going strong, no ammo shortages, all the batteries they need. That's just gonna be too much. In the apocalypse, those would be the battles everyone really fights. Battling hunger, maintaining mobility when infrastructure and logistics is long gone. Bridges and roads fail, major flooding cuts off access to many paths, violent storms wipe out towns and cities that have no ability to cope with it. These things happen NOW.

[Buzzbomb]

What's wrong with 2 year old distilled water?

Thinking about it - nothing - my bad call. I thought bacteria might be a problem, but I think maybe Darryl was seen to sniff it and take a swig without swallowing first, so it would have been low risk, compared to the water they've probably had to drink whist surviving on the road....

Weak 'Ale' would be a good idea in the case of a zombie apocalypse...

[Legion2213]

Thinking about it - nothing - my bad call. I thought bacteria might be a problem, but I think maybe Darryl was seen to sniff it and take a swig without swallowing first, so it would have been low risk, compared to the water they've probably had to drink whist surviving on the road....

Weak 'Ale' would be a good idea in the case of a zombie apocalypse...

"Hellz Yeah!!!"
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