TWD 4x09 "After" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

The mid-season premiere!

Please keep all talk of episode 4x09 "After" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/faq.php?faq=comm_item#faq_spoilersyoutube) (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!


The Walking Dead Episode 409 – After: “As Rick deals with old wounds, members of the prison have to come to terms with their new environment and ask themselves if survival alone is enough.”

Written By: Robert Kirkman
Directed By: Greg Nicotero

[rongravy]

My kid was texting me today from work of some way he claimed we could watch the episode early through XBOXONE. Apparently, by the time he got home, whatever screw up was already fixed. I was hoping to lord it...
I would've still treated tomorrow night's premiere like she was fresh out of the box, though. My wife wasn't home when I would've watched it, so I could've gotten the full scoop and acted like I was just really good at guessing what the episode was about when it comes on officially. Too bad because she would've freaked.
Alas, a butt ton of woulda/couldas in there that will now never come to fruition. Phooey.
Either way, I'm hoping to get up super late so I don't have as long to wait for the show. So-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o close...
Hoping it gets cray cray.

[kidgloves]

Wahaaay. We're back.
Didn't seem that long tbh.

[bassman]

My kid was texting me today from work of some way he claimed we could watch the episode early through XBOXONE. Apparently, by the time he got home, whatever screw up was already fixed. I was hoping to lord it...
I would've still treated tomorrow night's premiere like she was fresh out of the box, though. My wife wasn't home when I would've watched it, so I could've gotten the full scoop and acted like I was just really good at guessing what the episode was about when it comes on officially. Too bad because she would've freaked.
Alas, a butt ton of woulda/couldas in there that will now never come to fruition. Phooey.
Either way, I'm hoping to get up super late so I don't have as long to wait for the show. So-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o close...
Hoping it gets cray cray.

Surely another "accidental" leak from AMC. But yes, the episode is already out there...

[facestabber]

Damn happy today is finally here. Looking forward to the discussions to follow.

[Zombie Snack]

I really really really really really wanted shoe grabber walker to sink his teeth into Carls leg.

[Wyldwraith]

At one time I would've agreed, but Carl has become a lot more interesting lately. In part I believe because we don't often see characters his age as anything but helpless burden/dependents in your typical zombie fare. Was good stuff hearing him get all that stuff off his chest while Rick was unconscious...though of course one wishes he'd have had the stones to say it to a conscious Rick. Rick DID let the prison group down by sliding into the delusion that they could simply fence the zombie apocalypse out and go on with a pre-apocalyptic sort of life. One wonders how things might've been different had Lori survived...because it was really her death, and Rick's subsequent breakdown due to it that set things up in Rick's head for the Farmer Rick-style complacency.

Carl DID have a point about Rick knowing the Governor was out there, no doubt seething with rage and plotting revenge. Yes, I realize the "plague" so drastically reduced manpower that even if up until that point they'd instituted tighter security it would've probably fallen apart when damned near everyone got sick. What resonated with me though was the realization that it wasn't everything going south at the Prison that caused Carl to turn his anger on Rick...it was the fact that in Carl's mind Rick simply abdicated his responsibilities and therefore didn't even try to head off what ultimately happened. That, and Carl never had any patience for Farmer Rick to begin with.

Was interesting to see Michonne fall back on her Walker-Camo act...and even juicier was the Walker in the herd she was plodding along with that bore a STRONG resemblance to Michonne. The actress did a great job of conveying the medley of complex emotions that sight provoked in a non-verbal way.

Something I still wonder about is where Michonne ever found a master-crafted katana in the modern American South. Don't have any problem with it...just would love to see a webisode of how that came about.

[clanglee]

I really really really really really wanted shoe grabber walker to sink his teeth into Carls leg.

Oh me too!!

It was a great episode.. . . I just have one major problem with the whol Micchone thing. I can understand her two previous zombies on chains being so docile. They had been around her so long that they no longer saw her as food and were no longer aggresive. But these two new ones. . . one minute they are impailing themselves on spikes to get her. . . and then . . all pf a sudden. . just because they no longer have arms or jaws. . . they are docile little kittens? Makes no sense. THEY don't know they can't eat her, they are brainless automotons. How would they know they no longer have the means to get her and ingest her? And why would they just go where she wanted them to just with a little guide rope? Shouldn't they be chasing her? Instead she is somehow able to follow just behind them and all the other zombies just dont pay her any attention? Silly

[Legion2213]

Not a great season opener IMO.

I did like Carls initial reaction to seeing the big TV and console set-up, before the realisation sank in that it was all useless apart from a couple of cables. Also liked his message on the bedroom door - "walker inside, got my shoe, didn't get me" :D

I think Michonne can walk with the dead because she is so calm and doesn't panic, the walkers seem to be reactive creatures rather than pro-active. I also think that black female walker with dreads reminded her of herself as well...which is why she flipped out and butchered them all.

Edit: Glad she took care of Hersh as well...he deserved the peace of a proper death! Opening shot of all the walkers milling around also rocked...very "Dawn-like", evoked a real twinge of GAR nostalgia for me!

[sandrock74]

Not a great season opener IMO.


It wasn't. :p

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, a mid-season opener. :p

I wasn't expecting some big, grand episode - certainly not after 4x08's massive ruck ... a quieter affair, and I dug it. Good to focus on just Carl and Michonne (with some Rick). I liked all the father/son stuff - Carl's growing up, but he's not the all-capable and all-knowing badass he thinks he is ... it was a really good arc for this episode, and particularly with Carl being around about 13, it speaks to every father/son relationship out there ... there will come a time when you finally go head-to-head with your own Dad and start challenging his authority as you stride out on your own, but at the same time you're inevitably going to make mistakes and fall flat on your arse again, at which point you realise your old man's not so controlling after all ... and likewise, a father realises his son has to be let loose somewhat to become his own man.

An excellent character episode.

I did find an issue with Michonne's new pet walkers suddenly being docile, but at the same time it'd just take up too much screentime to show them calming down - you just need the essentials - Michonne needs protection, she gets two new pets, the end, so fair enough.

Good stuff for Michonne too - having been a loner, and then having finally gained something new that was worth holding dear, she instantly lost it all. Heading back into the woods as a loner, but then it all comes flooding back - good to see some backstory on her pet walkers (and that she had a child) - and that she eventually came around and tracked down Rick & Carl. Wise to get this stuff inside a single episode.

I wonder if we'll get three episodes on-the-trot covering different pairings of groups, by the end of which we get the band back together?

I also dug the moment when Carl found the boy's bedroom with the sweet gaming set up etc. A little glimmer of what he once was, that he's still somewhat of a child, and then the realisation that it was all gone.

A strong episode all-round. I knew it would be a quiet one, and liked that ... and a spiffing opening too (I had wondered if they'd address Hershel's undead head, so I'm glad that they did).

...

TWD 4x09 Memes:

http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/lone-wolf-carl-edition-walking-dead.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kUvRCVrEjFI/UvkBtuFiMgI/AAAAAAAACnk/GZM82TMm9no/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Stole_Walker_C hocolate_Pudding_4x09_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DirWyBJZwE0/UvkBxDATpYI/AAAAAAAACoA/5NvSMTrFl0c/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Walker_Bundle_ Pile-On_4x09_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EcXVx9TVHyY/UvkBwm-6D6I/AAAAAAAACnw/hqoY3hD1whc/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Swearing_Hole_ Face_4x09_DeadShed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bt-Ih7zxqfY/UvkBxUH8OnI/AAAAAAAACn8/vhbV2gZp0Qw/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Carl_Walker_Pile_Da y_Worse_4x09_DeadShed.jpg

[Legion2213]

It wasn't. :p


Yeah, a mid-season opener. :p

Oh, I see...like that is it...fecking smart arses! :D

Oh, yeah, another little life lesson for "the carlster" little boys can't shoulder barge doors in... :)

And for the record, it wasn't a bad episode, just not a great one...but hey...TWD is back, and that's all that counts!

[Trencher]

I thought it was a great episode, it had exploration AND well written character development, in the comic Carl spends most of his time sitting by Rick and I am glad they did not go that route it would have been cheap. Very nice stuff.

[Moon Knight]

Man, great start to the second half of the season. I loved how peaceful and quite it was; with Michonne's killing spree a needed exception, this was a cool episode. All the little touches like Carl not being able to shoulder ram the door open like Dad and the console and tv setup- great stuff. Glad they addressed Hershel' s head too. The last episode ended so explosive that the following episode needed to slow things down a bit as our survivors try and catch their breath; sometimes with unpredictable situations. This episode also felt extremely different. All the prison haters should feel happy. Marvelous stuff.

[MinionZombie]

Was it just me, or during the scene where Michonne is walking through the woods with the gaggle of walkers, the puppet zombie in that single shot ... was that a reference to An American Werewolf In London? It looks an awful lot like the guy who gets savaged by the wolf at the beginning and then appears all mangled as an undead version of himself in the porno cinema.

You can see a couple more glimpses of the puppet in this video.

S0sKgJm_QRQ

Gotta love a bit of zombie puppet work. :cool:

[Legion2213]

Just spotted a really horrible error in the opening shot (38 to 42 second mark)...if you have it recorded, check out the top down view of all the walkers wandering around...there is one that is meant to be dead lying on the floor, but the scale is way off!!! If it was standing up it would be about 12ft tall! :D

[MinionZombie]

Just spotted a really horrible error in the opening shot (38 to 42 second mark)...if you have it recorded, check out the top down view of all the walkers wandering around...there is one that is meant to be dead lying on the floor, but the scale is way off!!! If it was standing up it would be about 12ft tall! :D

haha! You're right! Green shirt, blue jeans - waaaaay off-scale compared to the others. :p

Maybe they thought it looked too small otherwise, so they enlarged it, but now that I've seen it, it does look a bit daft. Hadn't noticed that (it's right on the bottom of the opening frame) as I was distracted by the burning tank - although I was hoping to see the tank commander guy walked around as a walker (or see his munched-on body).

[Legion2213]

haha! You're right! Green shirt, blue jeans - waaaaay off-scale compared to the others. :p

Maybe they thought it looked too small otherwise, so they enlarged it, but now that I've seen it, it does look a bit daft. Hadn't noticed that (it's right on the bottom of the opening frame) as I was distracted by the burning tank - although I was hoping to see the tank commander guy walked around as a walker (or see his munched-on body).

It's like some kid dropped his action man in among his star wars figures...or maybe it's a Tyrant a la Resi Evil :D

[thxleo]

Was it just me, or during the scene where Michonne is walking through the woods with the gaggle of walkers, the puppet zombie in that single shot ... was that a reference to An American Werewolf In London? It looks an awful lot like the guy who gets savaged by the wolf at the beginning and then appears all mangled as an undead version of himself in the porno cinema.

You can see a couple more glimpses of the puppet in this video.

S0sKgJm_QRQ

Gotta love a bit of zombie puppet work. :cool:

MZ, that is indeed dead Jack from American Werewolf in London. Another zombie cameo from Greg, who loves that stuff!

[rongravy]

Overall I loved it. Herschel's head made me let out a big "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww." I'd love to have that badboy.
My beef is with the Michonne pet walkers, too. First, the whole not smelling fresh meat because two docile walkers are tagging along. Cringe worthy...
And someone already mentioned their immediate peacefulness as soon as they lost the ability to rend flesh. Those walkers around her should've torn her to shreds.
I did like her flashback, very nice. But they need to shitcan the whole smell deal. If they can see you, you should be toast.
I know it's not my show to command and make the rules, but come on.

[Morto Vivente]

I've really enjoyed season 4 so far and last night's episode was another to add to the list. Although, the whole smell/camo issue seems contradictory. I remember Nicotero saying that for the season 2 finale they removed the extras' breath vapour from the shots because zeds don't breath... Okay fair enough. However, if they don't breath, how can they smell anything? I just tried smelling my sweaty armpit without breathing, nothing, not a whiff. :eek:

Am I missing something here?

[sandrock74]

I don't think its outright smell that zombies go by but some undefined new "detection sense" that they use. This sense can obviously be "scrambled" by moving at their same pace, staying quiet and in the presence of docile walkers. As it is, it didn't seem to take the other walkers too much time (you know, for walkers) to hash out the human in their midst once Michonne started to move in a coordinated manner and make some noise. Almost like they suspected her but their "detection sense" was being screwed with (like Dutch covering himself in mud to avoid the Predators infrared vision).

Remember, the whole smell idea was just a guess by the survivors, not some scientific evidence that was presented as fact.

[zomtom]

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. It certainly wasn't as good as the mid-season finale but it was still a solid episode. I really enjoyed Carl's storyline. Who would believe he was a little prick just two seasons ago? Totally loved Michonne's backstory. Now I can understand her character a little better. FINALLY. somebody tells Rick off and the sombitch has to be unconscious!! I just wished they actually showed the scene of all three reuniting at the end. Loved the acting by Carl and Michonne. It's a damned shame this show doesn't get any love from the Emmy's or the Golden Globes.

[ProfessorChaos]

Who would believe he was a little prick just two seasons ago?

some of us still feel this way in season 4 :|


It's a damned shame this show doesn't get any love from the Emmy's or the Golden Globes.

there's just too many other great show on tv, as we're in the "golden age of television".....breaking bad, game of thrones, boardwalk empire, homeland, mad men, downton abbey.....the list goes on and on of other shows that are more deserving.....perhaps for special effects for walkers, but one thing that's starting to really annoy me is the constant hissing, snarling, and teeth-gnashing the walkers do. i find walkers, ghouls, zombies, whatever you want to call them way creepier when they moan or don't make any sound at all.

and it also seems that almost all walkers sound alike, almost like a "laugh track" used for sit-coms. THEY ALL SOUND ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME...kinda distracting.

[shootemindehead]

Oh me too!!

It was a great episode.. . . I just have one major problem with the whol Micchone thing. I can understand her two previous zombies on chains being so docile. They had been around her so long that they no longer saw her as food and were no longer aggresive. But these two new ones. . . one minute they are impailing themselves on spikes to get her. . . and then . . all pf a sudden. . just because they no longer have arms or jaws. . . they are docile little kittens? Makes no sense. THEY don't know they can't eat her, they are brainless automotons. How would they know they no longer have the means to get her and ingest her? And why would they just go where she wanted them to just with a little guide rope? Shouldn't they be chasing her? Instead she is somehow able to follow just behind them and all the other zombies just dont pay her any attention? Silly

Agreed, and that was going through my mind too. Again, bad writing.

I also just don't get why the other zombies would simply leave her off. Why? If the pet zombies thing works, then why wouldn't walking amongst a load of zombies quietly not work just as well?

[MinionZombie]

I think with the pet walkers, they're kind of the 'lead' to other walkers ... the pet walkers aren't causing a fuss, so why should any of the others? The other walkers are taking their cue from the pets. Yes, the whole smell deal has been a bizarre addition that seems very confused/contradictory ... it's far from a deal breaker, it is what it is, I'm not really fussed about it generally.

Nobody has tried 'walking like a zombie' on the show really, and that might look a bit daft, but then I'd imagine no survivors would really want to test that theory. It didn't really seem to work for The Governor during his opening montage in 4x06 when the walker went for him, albeit in a rather sedate pace, so maybe it worked to an extent that it didn't get the walker all riled up, but the walker still went for him.

[shootemindehead]

The smell thing we can still let go, as it were, because the characters could be wrong, if you get me. I go into the show with the caveat that we really don't know what attracts the zombies to their meal. The characters may think it's smell, but it could be something else setting them off.

With the pets though, we have Michonne gawping at her zombie lookalike and nothing's happening, when they've been set off on a lot less. It's just not a very good setup or good writing and unnecessary too, as that whole set up is written just to give her some sort of bollocks epiphany anyway.

It's another notch in the foundation of what is a good show over all. I keep saying it but there really does need to be an oracle, of sorts, who acts as a logical naysayer to cheap writing.

For instance, instead of having Michonne and her instant pets, they could just have had her skipping through the woods avoiding the zombies. She could then stumble upon her lookalike and have pretty much the same reaction. Perhaps she's hiding in some bushes and watching affixed from a short distance. She could then be attacked and her slaughter can ensue then and there.

It's the same outcome, less awkwardly done.

[bassman]

Easily the closest comic-to-film episode since Darabont's Days Gone Bye. So many awesome comic moments. Really got the comic nerd in me smiling.

Nicotero has come really far with his directing skills since the first webisode series. Very, very nice episode. The Michonne dream sequence was top-notch.

[facestabber]

Overall very happy with this episode. Expected and content that Michonne returned to pay her final act of respect by ending Hershel's misery. I felt Michonne couldn't let Hershel's situation go unresolved. I have a good feeling and connection with Michonne. I hope now that we know her back story we don't lose her soon. Dissapointed that the Gov's corpse wasn't being torn apart ala the horse from 1-1. Some of the Walker rules get bypassed and a recently dead corpse should be devoured.

[MinionZombie]

I'd totally forgotten, but someone pointed out elsewhere that the opening shot of 4x09 mirrors the closing shot of 1x01 - a tank swarmed by walkers viewed from above. :)

As for 'not ending the episode with Michonne, Rick, and Carl meeting' - it's better to go out on more of a punch note. Seeing that re-team is inevitable anyway, so why do we need to see it happen? The episode would end on a trailing-off moment, rather than a nice sharp moment ("it's for you"), which also somewhat ties into the broader themes of the episode. :)

A nice touch that I didn't initially quite pick up on was, as Nicotero explained, that Carl turns his head and exposes his neck to what he thinks is his walker-ised father - he doesn't want to go on without him, so he'd rather die, and is fully prepared to let that happen.

Great episode for Chandler Riggs, too - he's just getting better and better on the show - and when, with the start of Season 4A, they were talking about how they thought Riggs was ready to basically head-up his own episode, I was thinking of just this sort of thing, anticipating Volume 9 of the comics would come into play sooner or later. So it was cool to see the lad get the chance to essentially lead a whole episode. I think the father/son themes were stronger here in this episode than they were in the equivalent part of the comics as Riggs is older than his comic book counterpart (although I did notice in Volume 19 that Carl seems to have aged, somewhat suddenly, by a year or two's worth), and - like I was saying before - around about that age of 13 is when boys start challenging their fathers ... it's just that here it's in the wake of a horrible tragedy that has torn their world asunder once more, so it's even more amped-up.

Very pleased with the episode, and I agree with bassman, Nicotero's direction is getting stronger with each episode he does. :)

Pleased to see that next week's episode will be Tricia "Clear" Brock's third episode. :hyper:

[rongravy]

As for 'not ending the episode with Michonne, Rick, and Carl meeting' - it's better to go out on more of a punch note. Seeing that re-team is inevitable anyway, so why do we need to see it happen? The episode would end on a trailing-off moment, rather than a nice sharp moment ("it's for you"), which also somewhat ties into the broader themes of the episode. :)

Maybe, just maybe...
Next week's episode will end with the OTHER rest of the group about to come in the back door as Michonne is about to come in the front. Then the next weekend after that, they can finally just all... meet back up and chill out in the living room for a spell.

[Legion2213]

Further observation - Rick really needs to loot a new fucking shirt! :D

[Neil]

Not a bad mid-season starter.

Have to ask why Carl didn't seem very worried his dad wouldn't wake up, and seemed more than happy to sleep next to someone who could therefore "wake up" any second? Do these people not learn?

[Legion2213]

Not a bad mid-season starter.

Have to ask why Carl didn't seem very worried his dad wouldn't wake up, and seemed more than happy to sleep next to someone who could therefore "wake up" any second? Do these people not learn?

Aye, he's just sorted himself a really cool bedroom as well!

[zombieparanoia]

I thought it was pretty good, I liked carl taking the lead and becoming his own person/adult. I just hoped he would have told his dad off while he was awake. I thought the michonne backstory was nice but also hope they expand on it a bit more, all the characters really could use a solo backstory episode at this point. I thought it was good they left the rest of the group until the next episode, didn't break up the story into too many pieces that way.

I am still really surprised that more characters have not started becoming much more proficient with hand weapons by this time. I'm not saying they should all be wielding low maintenance katanas and being all navy seals or anything but it would be nice to see them start to realize the efficiency of a shovel or hatchet or machete in dispatching small numbers of walkers.

[Neil]

How many skulls did that katana slice through like butter? That's one sharp sword! Have we discussed if a sword can really slice through skulls like that?

[ProfessorChaos]

i was rolling my eyes and groaning during that bit. they had to throw a shit-ton of gore in there to please the masses, i guess.

michonne's katana has always seemed kinda goofy to me, even from her first appearance in the comics.

[MinionZombie]

Further observation - Rick really needs to loot a new fucking shirt! :D

I know right, that thing looks like it could stand up and walk itself to the nearest river for a bloody good wash ... could you imagine the stench?! :lol:


Aye, he's just sorted himself a really cool bedroom as well!

Aye, true enough.

Although it's probably so that he could be there if Rick needed him, as well as to provide a watchful eye over Rick as he slept off his beat-down. I don't think Carl really thought Rick was going to die necessarily, but at the same time he knew Rick was in a seriously bad way.

I think he blasted Rick while he was still passed out due to frustration, as well as it being a testing of the boundaries. He's really letting Rick have it, but the child side of him isn't quite brave enough to say all that to his face. Although, he might have done regardless of whether he was awake or not - he'd got to a point where he needed to just let it all out right there and then, he just needed to blurt it out as part of the process of moving onto the next step in survival.

Also, I'm totally fine with Michonne's sword, realistic blade or not. :D

[shootemindehead]

Yeh. It's stupid comic wank in an otherwise straight universe.

But, I just don't see it any more.

What I DO see, is other people NOT using blade weapons as their first line of attack. I'd have two machetes strapped to each leg, as well as a glock on my bum...

...and I'd be dressed head to toe in leather.

NO...not THAT leather.

[Neil]

I know right, that thing looks like it could stand up and walk itself to the nearest river for a bloody good wash ... could you imagine the stench?! :lol:



Aye, true enough.

Although it's probably so that he could be there if Rick needed him, as well as to provide a watchful eye over Rick as he slept off his beat-down. I don't think Carl really thought Rick was going to die necessarily, but at the same time he knew Rick was in a seriously bad way.

I think he blasted Rick while he was still passed out due to frustration, as well as it being a testing of the boundaries. He's really letting Rick have it, but the child side of him isn't quite brave enough to say all that to his face. Although, he might have done regardless of whether he was awake or not - he'd got to a point where he needed to just let it all out right there and then, he just needed to blurt it out as part of the process of moving onto the next step in survival.

Also, I'm totally fine with Michonne's sword, realistic blade or not. :D

If you're shouting and shaking someone who is wounded, and they will not rouse, then I know for a fact, I would not fall asleep next to them!

[zomtom]

Wheezie, (I mean Rick) sounded like a walker throughout the episode. I had a feeling the writers were going to try and put one over on us and trick us into thinking Rick died and turned. Of course, there's no way in hell they're going to kill Rick off any time soon. Still, if I had been Carl there would be no way in hell I would be sleeping right next to him!!

[Neil]

Still, if I had been Carl there would be no way in hell I would be sleeping right next to him!!Absolutely! He would have at least tied his leg or something to the couch or something...

[Wyldwraith]

About the "Pet Zombie technique",
One thing we DO know from TS-(whatever # it was), the episode with Dr. Jenner showing reanimation moment by moment on the big screen and narrating what the group was seeing...is that the "R-Complex" reactivates first. HOWEVER, Jenner did NOT say the R-Complex reactivates undamaged/unaffected. Just first. The reason I make the distinction is scientists believe that bit of reptile jelly may have as much to do with the urge to screw as it does the urge to eat. Since we don't see sexualized Walkers, that bit must remain offline.

But ANYWAYS, my point in even mentioning the R-Complex. If the Walkers are indeed "Eat Motivated" on a primal neurological level then there's a case to be made for Walkers losing their active impetus if they completely lose the implements required for biting/ripping etc etc. No, I don't think it would be as fast as "Chop, chop, Slice the Jaw. Chop, chop, slice the jaw. Poof, instant undead marionettes." I would be MUCH happier with the phenomena if they depicted something like the Walkers mutilated in such fashion as sort of "spazzing out" for a minute or so as instinct fails to come to grips with their altered physical reality.

Second and last point is a two-parter. One, they let Michonne get away with it cuz Darabont obviously thought it was a cool idea at some point. Two, consider the logistics of a Jawless, Double-Amputee Walker still trying to attack someone. It would quite literally have people laughing hysterically in many cases, and that just wrecks the hell out of the show's atmosphere.

Last thing: If they wanted to do a better job of selling the Mutilated Pet Zombie mechanism, they'd show us some Walkers that whether by misadventure or simple advanced decomposition have been rendered structurally unable to hunt being equally apathetic about the presence of humans.

I DID enjoy zombies like the moss-covered half-zombie reminiscent of Bicycle Zombie from episode one. That was an excellent and very believable example of what would happen to a corpse in Central/South Georgia that was rendered immobile for a prolonged length of time. Little touches like that from last season help sell the entire Walker phenomena, at least IMHO.

[MinionZombie]

Interesting points there Wyld.

I think in the end they just didn't have the time to show the walkers lose their motivation to eat. The episode isn't about that, there's more important things for the episode to be looking at, so they have to take a cheeky short cut to get to the inevitable end-point of that decision - Michonne needs walker pets to survive in the woods once more, she gets them, the end. So, as cheeky a short cut as it is, it will have just come down to there not being enough time to show that.

There's also interesting cases like the Tree Walker from season 4A. It still wants to get Carl and Hershel, but it's totally stuck under that fallen branch. We've also seen how some walkers, when there's no food for them to get at and nothing to attract their attention, they'll just stand/sit there - e.g. in 3x01 and 3x12 (the grocery store, and restaurant respectively) - so without a reason to go looking some place, they won't seek out food deliberately. Another interesting one was in 3x05 with the walker that ate all of Lori (although whether it literally was all of her, or most of her - because wtf about the skeleton, you know?) ... but anyway ... it was jam-packed full-o-Lori, so it was incredibly listless when Rick stopped by. It could barely lift an arm to get at him, and certainly couldn't stand, so that's another intersting walker of note.

:)

[Morto Vivente]

Second and last point is a two-parter. One, they let Michonne get away with it cuz Darabont obviously thought it was a cool idea at some point. Two, consider the logistics of a Jawless, Double-Amputee Walker still trying to attack someone. It would quite literally have people laughing hysterically in many cases, and that just wrecks the hell out of the show's atmosphere.

I think some of the "Zombie Rules" from the 1st season have been reconsidered as the show moved on after Darabont's departure. Originally the zeds could breathe, going back to 1x02 one sniffs Rick and Glen as they walk past it, while covered in zombie gore. In season 2 it seems the ability to smell has been dropped based on comments by Nicotero.

[MinionZombie]

I think some of the "Zombie Rules" from the 1st season have been reconsidered as the show moved on after Darabont's departure. Originally the zeds could breathe, going back to 1x02 one sniffs Rick and Glen as they walk past it, while covered in zombie gore. In season 2 it seems the ability to smell has been dropped based on comments by Nicotero.

One thing I'm glad they got shot of was also in 1x02 - how they could climb over a fence - I've always hated that. Glad they dropped that. Much better in 2x13 where a herd builds up to such an extent behind a wooden fence that they eventually just break through with sheer combined force.

[blind2d]

Well I liked it.
Herschel closure (and really the best kind possible, considering his state at the time).
Governor should've been a feast a la Rhodes from 'Day', but meh, I guess it's alright.
I did notice Michone's new pets becoming domesticated super quickly, and it felt funny, but it made sense for the story to progress.
Carl got cocky and it almost got him killed. Good life lesson for the times there. Also, who doesn't like pudding?!
Rick... I'm sick of Rick... Sorry, had to be honest. Kinda wished he had turned, even if it meant Carl's death, which would be a shame, since the little bugger has been growing on me.
Michone's dream! Oh my god, I could watch that over and over! Man, I totally understand her emotional deal a lot better now... Wow.
Carl got new shoes. So that's good.
What's gonna happen with Glenn and Maggie?!
Yeah, thanks... Mmmm... I like tanks. Good ep.

[Morto Vivente]

One thing I'm glad they got shot of was also in 1x02 - how they could climb over a fence - I've always hated that. Glad they dropped that. Much better in 2x13 where a herd builds up to such an extent behind a wooden fence that they eventually just break through with sheer combined force.

Totally agree, a definite walker faux pas. It diminished that whole Rick and Glen sequence. With some minor alterations the tension could still be preserved, such as the ignition keys not being where they predicted, forcing Glen to search the corpse of a Fedex driver, therefore allowing enough walkers to converge on the gate and force it open. Maybe forcing the gate that quickly is slightly far fetched but preferable to the "assault course zombie", IMO.

[Trencher]

I disagree completly, Darabount did a much better job with depicting zombies as a real threat and not just as a danger to the really stupid and or insane.
In fact the weaker zombies is the greatest reason why I think the quality of the show has dropped.

[Legion2213]

I think zombie rules should be simple, if a human can do it, a fresh zombie can do it (physical things, obviously, not operate a VCR or anything). :D

Sight, sound, vision, a bit of clumsy dexterity are all within the bounds of realism (when dealing with an absolute creature of fantasy). As the zombie ages and gets more ravaged by time and rot, these abilities would decrease rapidly until it was just a shambling husk, and eventually ending up totally immobile like the beautiful tree zombie.

This would give plausibility to the concept of the original zombie outbreak overwhelming the world, as the first wave in the first few weeks and months would be relatively fresh and mobile, and several years later they have become pretty weak and physically non-threatening unless in big mobs cornering people or catching them off their guard.

[blind2d]

Well said, Legion. I agree in full. Most logical.

[Morto Vivente]

All good points. The problem with 1x02 IMO is the lack of consistency. One walker can vault a 10' gate, but earlier in the episode they couldn't climb a ladder, i.e. when Rick meets Glen. I personally prefer the more disabling approach, but which ever one is picked, at least be consistent. Could it be that the more Nicotero was involved, the better the show became in this respect?

[Zombie Snack]

I say the Governor should have went out more like Rhodes in Day. I kind of expected it, and thought it would have been a great homage to a classic scene from a classic movie. The way he went out left me feeling sort of let down. It felt anti climatic...like sex without an orgasim.

[Morto Vivente]

I say the Governor should have went out more like Rhodes in Day. I kind of expected it, and thought it would have been a great homage to a classic scene from a classic movie. The way he went out left me feeling sort of let down. It felt anti climatic...like sex without an orgasim.

A homage to Rhodes would have been great. :cool:

[AcesandEights]

A really good episode to pick things back up with! I also like to see the survivors out in the world somewhat, though I wonder how quickly that will get repetitive and phoned in by the writers.


I say the Governor should have went out more like Rhodes in Day. I kind of expected it, and thought it would have been a great homage to a classic scene from a classic movie. The way he went out left me feeling sort of let down. It felt anti climatic...like sex without an orgasim.

The death of the Governor in the comic was great for several reasons, but I didn't need to see the Governor get torn apart, per se. The most important element of the Governor's death for me was that it came from...

one of his own people...at least coup de grace did.

Also, I loved how abruptly it all ended for the Governor in the comic. He's trying to reorganize and lead people to the very end and finally someone just decides he's a liability that would be better used as a momentary distraction.

In the end, I'm just happy we got a proper prison showdown and that the Governor is dead and gone.

[Buzzbomb]

Like Legion says - there would be some variation in the ability with the decomposition over time....

It's reasonable to assume also that there could be some variation in physical ability, between your average potato couch zombie and an olympic athelite - (perhaps that answers the question in 'Juan Of The Dead' as to why some of them move slow and some of them move fast :D).

Re: Breathing - in order to grunt/moan zombies must 'breathe' - unless they just rely on gases from decomposition - but then how many of them belch?

If leg, arm & jaw muscles still work then why not chest muscles?