Doesn't anyone want to see.......

[Harleydude666]

An important death lets say Rick, Daryl , Glenn etc die an abrupt death with no explanation?

For example when in The Departed Leo Dicaprio gets blasted in the head getting out of the elevator and poof an extremely important lead gone in a flash, very stunning end to his life. Now of course there was an explanation to his death because it's a two hour movie with a plot. But let's take Daryl or Glenn, maybe one of them all of a sudden gets tackled by a walker when we least expect it and just dies. No buildup, no moving music or anything like that, just maybe the characters discussing afterwards amongst themselves and reflecting and mourning on an old friend who's now gone, and really no time to do that, just keep moving on.

To me, in an apocalyptic world, there would be no doubt unpredictable surprises and deaths along the way with no time to build tension for an audience. I guess what I'm saying it would be really cool if the writers shocked us once in awhile while maybe not writing the death with the audience in mind. That would throw me off really well.

Also, would love if one of the groups would die or never find everyone else and just ended up on their own and we had two story lines going or we just never see that group again like the Morales family from season 1. Always keeping us wondering what ever happened to them. If you ask me we should never see Beth ever again, I love her character but the way she was kidnapped....she's a goner. Either she's being repeatedly raped, cannibalized or whatever, but in this vast land where know one knows where anyone is, no cell phones, no radio or television it would be impossible to find her healthy and happy and alive. I want her disappearance a mystery for the rest of the show.

I love what they did with Morgan, in this world he went nuts, didn't want to search for salvation anymore, and he's gone. Although I love his character, I like that we will never see him again, or I should say we should never see him again for the good of the show's integrity. In this world that's what happens to some people and it adds to the apocalyptic realism for me.

[bassman]

I'd definitely want to see if happen with Daryl. He needs to go soon.

But Rick has a while to go. He's going to die before the end of the series, just not quite yet.

[facestabber]

You copied and pasted my mind. With the exception of Rick dying. The show started with him and I wanna see the show through with his story. From hospital bed to whatever they decide. Morales and Morgan situations, I completely agree. In fact with the talk of a spin off show maybe this break in the group is for exactly that.

You hit on something good here though. We dont need a half hour build up of each characters death. Sometimes we just need shit to happen to keep things real to a zombie apocalypse. Good thread man

[bassman]

In fact with the talk of a spin off show maybe this break in the group is for exactly that.


I won't go too far in fear of spoilers, but the split isn't meant for that.

[AcesandEights]

I'll reiterate my second season frothiness: Daryl must die for this show to have a full set of balls again.

This season has been great and I like the character, but come on...he's just too much.

[bassman]

I'll reiterate my second season frothiness: Daryl must die for this show to have a full set of balls again.

This season has been great and I like the character, but come on...he's just too much.

Agreed. Daryl has become a TV-only character that everyone seems to love. I like the character too, but to keep the surprise alive, they need to kill him.

[shootemindehead]

As far as I'm concerned there's already been a number of important deaths in the show. A lot of things can be leveled at 'The Walking Dead', but being afraid to kill off characters isn't one of them.

[Neil]

As far as I'm concerned there's already been a number of important deaths in the show. A lot of things can be leveled at 'The Walking Dead', but being afraid to kill off characters isn't one of them.

Queue entry of Andy and talk of Carol :)

[shootemindehead]

It'd be a shame to knock off Carol at the moment. Her story and how she's got to where she is now has been great.

To me, Carol is one of the most important characters in the series as she illustrates perfectly (more so than anyone else) the extreme loss that would inevitably occur to most people and strength an everyday, average, person would need to muster in order to survive in the world as depicted.

But then again, her senseless death would be a brilliant end to her tragic existence.

[Harleydude666]

As far as I'm concerned there's already been a number of important deaths in the show. A lot of things can be leveled at 'The Walking Dead', but being afraid to kill off characters isn't one of them.

You responded but you didn't read the post.

It's being afraid of killing off main characters that we are discussing, it's the way I want to see some of them go.

[MinionZombie]

It would only work in a context that'd make sense.

Comic Spoiler:
For example: Abraham's death in the comics. Out of nowhere he's cut off mid-sentence and he was a major character.

However, just chucked in at-random, in a context that doesn't really make sense, it'd just be a slap in the face for fans of the character. There has to be a narrative purpose behind killing someone off, even if it was to be engineered in a way that made the death sudden.

Axel was killed off suddenly mid-sentence before we could get enough time with the character and, while it was a shock moment, I was simultaneously pissed off that we didn't get more time with his character. I felt they'd underwritten him and not done enough with him, so it felt, partly, like he was just being thrown away.

In terms of a death happening off-screen, or someone just vanishing from the world, again it'd have to be in a context that'd make sense for such a thing to happen. There'd have to be a good enough reason that characters couldn't go searching for them, but ultimately I think most viewers - the vast majority - would feel decidedly cheated if an important character, perhaps even their favourite character, was just there one minute and gone the next and that was that, no rhyme nor reason.

If it made strict narrative and thematic sense, in a very particular set of circumstances, then it could potentially work, but otherwise it'd just be, for a writer, cutting yourself off at the knees.

I don't get some folks' passion for wanting Daryl to be killed off ASAP, as I rather like the character and find him interesting and well-suited to the zombie apocalypse world. However, thinking about it, there is a place where it could happen:

MAJOR Comic Spoiler (Issue #100):
In Issue 100 Glenn is killed at random by Negan. It didn't matter to Negan who he killed, he picked Glenn at random, and it was such a horrific and anger-inducing death that the war and hatred against Negan was entirely justified in one fell swoop.

That said, it inspired a lot of ire in the fanbase and some people were majorly pissed off about it, so there'd be a hell storm of shit if Daryl was snuffed out in that manner.

Perhaps less controversially than that, they could kill him off during the war against Negan ... which I'm only half-way through at the moment (I keep up with the Trade Paperbacks, so I've only seen half of said war), so don't spoil anything beyond issue #120 for me! :)

He could die for a good cause, but he could also go down in a quick and stunning manner (e.g. a sniper).

Considering the wide appeal of Daryl (not just to the uber-fangirls) it's a tricky decision for the show makers. How do they handle that? When do they handle it? There's certainly been a lot of foreshadowing going on - I don't believe he'll be killed off yet, but he has had some properly close calls of late, so it's good that they're doing a little preparatory ground work. It's undeniable that Daryl is a huge part of the show - like it or lump it - and you don't want to scupper an entire show (e.g. losing a big chunk of viewers because of killing him off, and then having your budget cut as a result). Everybody loses in that instance.

In the case of Daryl, eventually he'll suffer the fate that most characters endure, but it'll have to be done in a way that's satisfying enough for his most hardcore followers. A viewer is a viewer is a viewer, and they all deserve respect.

However, at the same time, when all is said and done, The Walking Dead is ultimately a story about a father raising a son on his own in a horrendous environment. There always has to be a constant through-line for an ever-evolving narrative to carry everyone through. Killing off someone like Rick, particularly Rick, would be a gimmick and nothing more.

The only time when it was truly make sense to kill of Rick would be at the very end of the show/comic. The long journey has come to an end, he's shepherded Carl into adulthood and self-sufficiency, and the entire story reaches a cathartic conclusion with Rick's eyes closing. A black screen lingers. A single gun shot. Credits. No music. End of an era.

There's a long way to go before then though, if that's how it was to go.

[AcesandEights]

I don't get some folks' passion for wanting Daryl to be killed off ASAP...

He's been around since the first season and he's gotten some great character treatment and a metric ton of fan service.

Off the top of my head we have...
--Ragdolling a zombie as if he were a well-practiced SAS man, then commando rolling into covering himself with a dead body without a second thought or moment's hesitation.

--Computer precision auto-shotting zeds with his crossbow...guaranteed to never miss unless the plot demands it.

--Nonchalant knife toss in his tête-à-tête with Martinez.

--Showdown against a legion of high caliber toting troops at the prison...with super flimsy cover.

--White men can jump grenade in the tank barrel.

--Always getting away by the skin of his teeth with that characteristic Dixon backwoods gumption.

Adding that Bieberesque hair to his heavy handededly enforced rule of cool status and his outlandish plot armor and I don't see why so many people don't want the character treated with the respect of giving him a thematically and genre appropriate death.

It can be fun to watch, but it also gets old and played out after a while. He makes Michonne come across as a pretty reasonable character, though :) That said, he just smells too safe and I hope to see that end.

[kidgloves]

Add me to the list of "Daryl must go". His presence is clearly getting in the way of the development of other characters. Tyrese is a shadow of his character from the comic and I fear the same will happen with Abraham.

[MoonSylver]

I don't get some folks' passion for wanting Daryl to be killed off ASAP, as I rather like the character and find him interesting and well-suited to the zombie apocalypse world. However, thinking about it, there is a place where it could happen:

MAJOR Comic Spoiler (Issue #100):
In Issue 100 Glenn is killed at random by Negan. It didn't matter to Negan who he killed, he picked Glenn at random, and it was such a horrific and anger-inducing death that the war and hatred against Negan was entirely justified in one fell swoop.

That said, it inspired a lot of ire in the fanbase and some people were majorly pissed off about it, so there'd be a hell storm of shit if Daryl was snuffed out in that manner.

Perhaps less controversially than that, they could kill him off during the war against Negan ... which I'm only half-way through at the moment (I keep up with the Trade Paperbacks, so I've only seen half of said war), so don't spoil anything beyond issue #120 for me! :)

He could die for a good cause, but he could also go down in a quick and stunning manner (e.g. a sniper).

Considering the wide appeal of Daryl (not just to the uber-fangirls) it's a tricky decision for the show makers. How do they handle that? When do they handle it? There's certainly been a lot of foreshadowing going on - I don't believe he'll be killed off yet, but he has had some properly close calls of late, so it's good that they're doing a little preparatory ground work. It's undeniable that Daryl is a huge part of the show - like it or lump it - and you don't want to scupper an entire show (e.g. losing a big chunk of viewers because of killing him off, and then having your budget cut as a result). Everybody loses in that instance.

In the case of Daryl, eventually he'll suffer the fate that most characters endure, but it'll have to be done in a way that's satisfying enough for his most hardcore followers. A viewer is a viewer is a viewer, and they all deserve respect.

However, at the same time, when all is said and done, The Walking Dead is ultimately a story about a father raising a son on his own in a horrendous environment. There always has to be a constant through-line for an ever-evolving narrative to carry everyone through. Killing off someone like Rick, particularly Rick, would be a gimmick and nothing more.

The only time when it was truly make sense to kill of Rick would be at the very end of the show/comic. The long journey has come to an end, he's shepherded Carl into adulthood and self-sufficiency, and the entire story reaches a cathartic conclusion with Rick's eyes closing. A black screen lingers. A single gun shot. Credits. No music. End of an era.

There's a long way to go before then though, if that's how it was to go.

Agree completely. It's starting to feel like some people are calling for his death just as a knee jerk reaction to the popularity of the character. That's be a shitty reason, & I wouldn't want to see it happen just for shock value. I'm still enjoying the character, so I'm in no hurry to see him go. TBH I'd be more ok if they killed off Rick at this point. *shrugs* :|

[Legion2213]

Suck my cock bitches! :D

Seriously though, it seems people want Daryl to die simply because he is a popular character and not form the comics...well, I have the first 4 hardback editions of TWD (unread, still) and I say fuck you D-Dog haters. He is one of the best characters in this show, and I will bet you anything that he is the last man standing...because he pulls in viewers and is a top crossbow wielding, redneck character of tracking awesomeness.

Daryl is TWD's Boba Fett (the cool EU Boba Fett, not the skunk pussy prequel Fett).

Sorry if a few of you Tyreese fanboys are all upset and stuff, but for the first time in my life, I'm going to say "fuck ya'll comics guys" I saw the show first and I like it...and I like it's major characters, and I like like Dayrl...he is a great character.


Legion2213 - Founder of the Squeely Wet Knickers Daryl Appreciation Society

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, axel's death was shocking and totally unexpected. the episode where lori and t-dog bit the dust was also out of nowhere and very impactful as well. we need more of that, and less of these episodes like dale's last day of getting on everybody's nerves before he was killed by a ninja walker, or an entire season of andrea's dipshittery before her overly-dramatic and silly death.

no need for a character to get a special-send off episode. in real life, folks die in car crashes, freak-accidents, etc. in war, troops are sniped, torn apart by bombs, etc. if this show is set in a world where it's a war of the living versus the dead, there ought to be more unexpected deaths, and not just filler characters like beth's boyfriend zack, (which was the most obvious and blatantly telegraphed death on this show yet), the harry potter look-alike clown who was offering darryl a blowjob in the season opener, or any of the other woodbury citizens with targets on their backs from the moment they stepped off the bus at the end of season 3.

somebody falling off a roof or through a floor and impaling themselves on something in a basement would be a great example of just how random death can be, particularly in a post-apocalyptic setting. my top three choices to be put on the chopping block:
1. darryl
2. glenn
3 (and i know it'll never happen, but a guy can dream) kooorrallll

how this show feels at times:
http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/300e40ac52d9be2125fe63ffae42b1e8208b3001.jpg

[Legion2213]

how this show feels at times:
http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/300e40ac52d9be2125fe63ffae42b1e8208b3001.jpg

Because if we have to learn about new characters every two episodes, then they get killed, then we have to start over, we'll get pissed off and stop watching (the masses).

You need a bit of continuity in these stories, and characters generally drive them and provide said continuity.

All my opinion obviously.

[MoonSylver]

Because if we have to learn about new characters every two episodes, then they get killed, then we have to start over, we'll get pissed off and stop watching (the masses).

You need a bit of continuity in these stories, and characters generally drive them and provide said continuity.

All my opinion obviously.

*Nods* It may kinda suck in a "realism & accurate portrayal vs TV drama" sort of way, but there it is. There are going to be certain concessions made for a variety of production reasons, (everything from logistics, technical, budgetary, all the way to dramatic, series structure, etc, etc, etc) when you're making a TV drama, & as you point out, "red shirts" getting killed off while series regulars continue on is, for better AND worse, one of those concessions.

Of course they're going to do it every once in a great while to shake things up & keep it somewhat edgy. But not too often. :|

[facestabber]

Suck my cock bitches! :D

Seriously though, it seems people want Daryl to die simply because he is a popular character and not form the comics...well, I have the first 4 hardback editions of TWD (unread, still) and I say fuck you D-Dog haters. He is one of the best characters in this show, and I will bet you anything that he is the last man standing...because he pulls in viewers and is a top crossbow wielding, redneck character of tracking awesomeness.

Daryl is TWD's Boba Fett (the cool EU Boba Fett, not the skunk pussy prequel Fett).

Sorry if a few of you Tyreese fanboys are all upset and stuff, but for the first time in my life, I'm going to say "fuck ya'll comics guys" I saw the show first and I like it...and I like it's major characters, and I like like Dayrl...he is a great character.


Legion2213 - Founder of the Squeely Wet Knickers Daryl Appreciation Society

WAR Legion!!!!!!

[AcesandEights]

Suck my cock bitches! :D
You act like we just ransacked your bedroom and tore down all your Daryl Dixon posters :p

[Legion2213]

You act like we just ransacked your bedroom and tore down all your Daryl Dixon posters :p

I'd be much more hysterical and outraged if you'd done that... :D

(but the honest to goshness of it is...I do like DD as a character, the show would survive without him, but it would be a pointless killing).

[MinionZombie]

Because if we have to learn about new characters every two episodes, then they get killed, then we have to start over, we'll get pissed off and stop watching (the masses).

You need a bit of continuity in these stories, and characters generally drive them and provide said continuity.

All my opinion obviously.


*Nods* It may kinda suck in a "realism & accurate portrayal vs TV drama" sort of way, but there it is. There are going to be certain concessions made for a variety of production reasons, (everything from logistics, technical, budgetary, all the way to dramatic, series structure, etc, etc, etc) when you're making a TV drama, & as you point out, "red shirts" getting killed off while series regulars continue on is, for better AND worse, one of those concessions.

Of course they're going to do it every once in a great while to shake things up & keep it somewhat edgy. But not too often. :|

Well said chaps.

Plus, the characterisation effort you'd have to put in to establishing a new character - only to plug them a couple of episodes later - takes away much-needed screen time from the main cast of characters, and the main thrust of the plot. If you go skittering off hither and thither to look at red shirts all the time you'd lose any real sense of season-wide narrative structure ... it'd become an unfocused, patchy, cobbled together mess of pieces, rather than having a coherent set of plotlines for a coherent set of characters for a coherent season-wide story.

It's super easy to chuck in a shit load of background characters in the comic - it's just lines on paper - but in a TV show, those are all people that need paying and feeding and sheltering. Contracts, direction, on-set shepharding, the works.

The inevitable 'get rid of the backgrounders' moments do irk me - in various shows (e.g. Lost - a show that I love, but there are inherent problems with a plane-load of passengers - it'd be unrealistic to not have them, but in-so-doing, they become a weight around the writers' necks at times) ... you couldn't have the 'prison community' without a range of background folks, but inevitably you've got to thin down your cast to the main players only once more. To us they're bit players and extras, but to the characters, they're friends and comrades.

However - look at 4x01 and 4x02 - Zack and Patrick - both introduced as potential new characters, both with clearly defined characteristics, and both killed off by the end of the episode. You can't do that all the time - eventually it becomes a cheap gimmick that's just as likely to annoy the audience as it is to shock them or keep them guessing - but from time-to-time it works. Another example would be the guys Rick & Co met in the bar in season 2. We know exactly what sort of guys these are, but this will just so happen to be those guys' last minutes on this earth.

Finally - if folks have made it this far into the zombie apocalypse, they're doing something right when it comes to survival, so I don't want to see cast members dropping like flies. We've lost the vast majority of the season one cast as it is (only Rick, Carl, Daryl, and Carol are left IIRC). Some people are bound to survive for a long, long time - and there has to be a good chance for some people, otherwise what's the point?

It'd become like one of the later Saw sequels. The films started by giving the game victims a chance of survival, albeit via horrid means, but they could actually survive those traps. In the later sequels they became fodder and nothing more - there was no chance for them to survive at all - so what's the point? There's nothing and no-one to root for.

I'd also prefer character deaths to be more spaced out, to be a more rare event, as the impact would be greater when they do go, and it'd stop us losing side characters before we've had a good enough time with them (e.g. Axel - who was sorely underused in season 3).


You act like we just ransacked your bedroom and tore down all your Daryl Dixon posters :p

:lol::lol::lol:

Respect to Legion, he speaks from the heart. I too am a big fan of Daryl Dixon, but I'm also a big fan of so many of the characters on the show. There's very few, if any, characters that I'm not fond of come to think of it. Different reasons for liking all of them, too. They all offer something different.

[facestabber]

Well said chaps.

Plus, the characterisation effort you'd have to put in to establishing a new character - only to plug them a couple of episodes later - takes away much-needed screen time from the main cast of characters, and the main thrust of the plot. If you go skittering off hither and thither to look at red shirts all the time you'd lose any real sense of season-wide narrative structure ... it'd become an unfocused, patchy, cobbled together mess of pieces, rather than having a coherent set of plotlines for a coherent set of characters for a coherent season-wide story.

It's super easy to chuck in a shit load of background characters in the comic - it's just lines on paper - but in a TV show, those are all people that need paying and feeding and sheltering. Contracts, direction, on-set shepharding, the works.

The inevitable 'get rid of the backgrounders' moments do irk me - in various shows (e.g. Lost - a show that I love, but there are inherent problems with a plane-load of passengers - it'd be unrealistic to not have them, but in-so-doing, they become a weight around the writers' necks at times) ... you couldn't have the 'prison community' without a range of background folks, but inevitably you've got to thin down your cast to the main players only once more. To us they're bit players and extras, but to the characters, they're friends and comrades.

However - look at 4x01 and 4x02 - Zack and Patrick - both introduced as potential new characters, both with clearly defined characteristics, and both killed off by the end of the episode. You can't do that all the time - eventually it becomes a cheap gimmick that's just as likely to annoy the audience as it is to shock them or keep them guessing - but from time-to-time it works. Another example would be the guys Rick & Co met in the bar in season 2. We know exactly what sort of guys these are, but this will just so happen to be those guys' last minutes on this earth.

Finally - if folks have made it this far into the zombie apocalypse, they're doing something right when it comes to survival, so I don't want to see cast members dropping like flies. We've lost the vast majority of the season one cast as it is (only Rick, Carl, Daryl, and Carol are left IIRC). Some people are bound to survive for a long, long time - and there has to be a good chance for some people, otherwise what's the point?

It'd become like one of the later Saw sequels. The films started by giving the game victims a chance of survival, albeit via horrid means, but they could actually survive those traps. In the later sequels they became fodder and nothing more - there was no chance for them to survive at all - so what's the point? There's nothing and no-one to root for.

I'd also prefer character deaths to be more spaced out, to be a more rare event, as the impact would be greater when they do go, and it'd stop us losing side characters before we've had a good enough time with them (e.g. Axel - who was sorely underused in season 3).



:lol::lol::lol:

Respect to Legion, he speaks from the heart. I too am a big fan of Daryl Dixon, but I'm also a big fan of so many of the characters on the show. There's very few, if any, characters that I'm not fond of come to think of it. Different reasons for liking all of them, too. They all offer something different.

Very solid replies and I have to agree. If I understand the OP correctly he wasnt advocating killing off main characters quickly and cheaply just for the sake of it. But in the interest of keeping it real to the ZA an occasional death out of the blue without a build up would be alright. I actually felt Dale's death was like that. I didnt think they would off him there like they did. There is a difficult balance/medium that the writers must deal with and it can't be easy.

I'm not gonna knock the comic fans as I have now attended 3 comic-cons. Quick side note: There are some messed up people at those events. Back to point: I don't get comic books at all. Even as a kid they did not entertain me. I tried reading TWD comics and after 1 read I just put it back in the package and called it a day. The comic crowd is a band of brothers as I have witnessed. It seems they are the biggest proponents of killing Daryl. His ass kicking has detracted from their comic hero's role. Daryl has invaded their territory so it frustrates them. Well fuck ya'll comic nerds.....I kid, seriously. I will admit the trademark crossbow has prevented his character from being practical. It's a cool weapon and all but not worth a shit in a tight jam with multiple targets. My attachment and fandom has more to do with Norman Reedus. Lucky enough to walk into my hotel in Boston(2 or 3 episodes of season 1 had aired) and Reedus was outside smoking. We chatted and I offered to buy him a drink at the bar. Next thing I know I'm doing shots of Irish with Norman Reedus. The guy is as nice and genuine as the come. Humble as hell. So sorry to you comic fans but I will proudly oppose Daryl Dixon's death.

[shootemindehead]

I think a lot of people want Daryl dead because he's essentially a silly character. He's the boy version of Michonne, an equally silly character. They both subtract, terribly, from a realism that all the other characters inject into the story. On one hand we have a moody (albeit less so now) katana wielding nerd wankfest. That's...er...Michonne and on the other a poncho wearing, crossbow slinging, super tracker redneck.

Whereas everyone else looks like they could exist, these two are pure bollocks.

That said, I don't want to see him gone, just yet. But if he did go, it wouldn't bother me at all. TBH, I'm getting sick of his deadshot crossbow act.

Also, I like Michonne better in the show now that they've dropped the "I'm not talking to anyone" nonsense and allowed whatsherface a bit of room to actually act the part. If she traded in her silly katana for a machete, she's be even better.

[MoonSylver]

I think a lot of people want Daryl dead because he's essentially a silly character. He's the boy version of Michonne, an equally silly character. They both subtract, terribly, from a realism that all the other characters inject into the story. On one hand we have a moody (albeit less so now) katana wielding nerd wankfest. That's...er...Michonne and on the other a poncho wearing, crossbow slinging, super tracker redneck.

Whereas everyone else looks like they could exist, these two are pure bollocks.

That said, I don't want to see him gone, just yet. But if he did go, it wouldn't bother me at all. TBH, I'm getting sick of his deadshot crossbow act.

Also, I like Michonne better in the show now that they've dropped the "I'm not talking to anyone" nonsense and allowed whatsherface a bit of room to actually act the part. If she traded in her silly katana for a machete, she's be even better.

Hm. Fair enough point, even if I don't totally agree, but I can see some degree of what you're saying.

This is just an off-the-cuff thought in response, in that the thought hadn't occurred to me until I read your post, but, maybe there is a portion of the audience that enjoys more "heroic" level characters as opposed to "gritty realism"? By throwing in a DD & Michone you satisfy that urge/fanbase, and still have the opportunity to explore more "realistic" characters & scenarios via the rest of your cast.

BTW, I don't think this was a calculated move on their behalf, at least not in the terms of DD. It seems to have been something that evolved organically. The audience responded, either to the character, or to Reedus himself (who I always thought was a likable guy onscreen), & the show responded. Or the producers, writing staff, somebody saw something there they liked, & started beefing up the part. In either case, he started off with a "also starring" credit (like Emily Kenny has now), & is now second billed if I noticed the credits right...

Now Michone was already written as such in the comics. Actually now that I think of it, at the point that they're at in the comics, Michone is still kind of sulky & closed. There has been some wonderful acting moments that have evolved on the show between her & Chandler Riggs. Again, I suspect this has been an organic evolution, but a welcome one. No such interaction exists in the comic if I'm not mistaken. (At least not at the point they're at now).

I'll even go out on a limb & say that by having a second/male "zombie ass kicker" character on the show, it has taken some of the burden of being that character off of the Michone character?

By having two of them, you can bounce back & forth & develop them as characters & still have the other doing "zombie ass kickery" type stuff, with out risking the perception that either is "going soft".

It's kind of a balancing act, IMO, trying to service different audiences all within the same show. You've got character driven drama fans, survival/simulation buffs, folks that prefer more action, & horror/gore hounds, and then some who enjoy ALL of those aspects, to one degree or another (which is probably where I would consider myself).

So, it seems like you try to throw in different elements that please those different members of your audience, without trying to alienate the others. So far I think they're doing a fine job of it. Sometimes they may go a little too much one way or the other, but that's the nature of a balancing act I suppose. But at the end of the day it has all evened out nicely thus far, so I'm happy.

Anyway, hadn't intended on going on this long. Saturday morning having the coffee & posting on the internet ramble. :)

[MinionZombie]

Good points Moon, plus characters like Daryl and Michonne help balance the show out so it doesn't become some unremittingly bleak tale of loss and woe. You need a character or two who, even though they have their own drama to contend with, can kick arse and take names. It adds an element of empowerment for the viewers at large ... for example, there was a lot of negative reaction to Skylar White on Breaking Bad, and the show makers discovered quite to their surprise, that it was ultimately because she was seen as a 'helpless' character that big chunks of the audience disliked her.

Likewise, with such horrors and bastards populating much of the zombie apocalypse world, you need to have a couple of capable hands to bring a sense of balance and justice. Otherwise it'd just be horrible things happening to good people who can't fight back against the dark.

Also, extending a point I made earlier, you can't get to this point in TWD without being someone adept at surviving in this world. Sometimes it might be a case of having good comrades (e.g. Eugene, and how Beth used to be) and sometimes it might be a case of being a survivalist (e.g. Daryl) or a dogged pragmatist (e.g. Michonne) or someone who is, for whatever reasons, just a born survivor (e.g. Rick).

[facestabber]

Well said Moon. Nothing wrong with coffee fueled rants.

[AcesandEights]

He's a good character, he's had his various arcs, he's troped it up hardcore, but making him bulletproof just because he's a fan favorite is a losing proposition.



It's kind of a balancing act, IMO, trying to service different audiences all within the same show.
I'll bow to your superior wisdom on this subject, Moon, as I know you have shedloads of experience in servicing folks.

[MoonSylver]

Well said Moon. Nothing wrong with coffee fueled rants.

I get more done before 12pm than I get done the rest of the day. :lol:


I'll bow to your superior wisdom on this subject, Moon, as I know you have shedloads of experience in servicing folks.

Don't be hatin' just because I've been laid more than a brickyard. :fin:

[AcesandEights]

Don't be hatin' just because I've been laid more than a brickyard. :fin:
:lol: ;)

[Zombie Snack]

I think a lot of people want Daryl dead because he's essentially a silly character. He's the boy version of Michonne, an equally silly character. They both subtract, terribly, from a realism that all the other characters inject into the story. On one hand we have a moody (albeit less so now) katana wielding nerd wankfest. That's...er...Michonne and on the other a poncho wearing, crossbow slinging, super tracker redneck.

Whereas everyone else looks like they could exist, these two are pure bollocks.

That said, I don't want to see him gone, just yet. But if he did go, it wouldn't bother me at all. TBH, I'm getting sick of his deadshot crossbow act.

Also, I like Michonne better in the show now that they've dropped the "I'm not talking to anyone" nonsense and allowed whatsherface a bit of room to actually act the part. If she traded in her silly katana for a machete, she's be even better.

No here in the southern United States, especially in the small country towns, there are many guy's that are like Daryl with the crossbow and tracking skills. Hell in the south some mountain people do not eat if they do not hunt and kill, then skin and dress out their kill. For a good time them redknecks will get drunk, turn out all the lights and start swinging until only 1 is left standing. Michonne is the one that seems unreal to me.

[zombieparanoia]

No here in the southern United States, especially in the small country towns, there are many guy's that are like Daryl with the crossbow and tracking skills. Hell in the south some mountain people do not eat if they do not hunt and kill, then skin and dress out their kill. For a good time them redknecks will get drunk, turn out all the lights and start swinging until only 1 is left standing. Michonne is the one that seems unreal to me.

This.

It's weird because I keep hearing how Daryl is the unrealistic character, when in a lot of ways, he's probably the closest to reality for a good chunk of north america. The poor, rural, hunting, not so book smart type who maybe been to county a couple times. I've probably known half a dozen guys like daryl in my life, guys who are kind of dirtbags but can be good friends when the shit hits the fan, guys who LIKE going hunting with a bow, a back pack and a sleeping bag for over week, shelter? they'll make one, fire? no problem, tracking and skinning and trapping? Things they like to do.

I've never met a black woman who can handle a katana like michonne or a white small town cop who goes back to save a guy he handcuffed and left for dead or an old grandfatherly type who was full of wisdom and morality instead of viagra and jim beam.

[AcesandEights]

This.

It's weird because I keep hearing how Daryl is the unrealistic character, when in a lot of ways, he's probably the closest to reality for a good chunk of north america.

Oh, yeah...all those grenade slam dunking, commando trained, hard as nails North American types :lol:

Daryl really is some sort of wish-fulfillment for lots of male viewers, though. That much is clear.

[shootemindehead]

Hm. Fair enough point, even if I don't totally agree, but I can see some degree of what you're saying.

This is just an off-the-cuff thought in response, in that the thought hadn't occurred to me until I read your post, but, maybe there is a portion of the audience that enjoys more "heroic" level characters as opposed to "gritty realism"? By throwing in a DD & Michone you satisfy that urge/fanbase, and still have the opportunity to explore more "realistic" characters & scenarios via the rest of your cast.

BTW, I don't think this was a calculated move on their behalf, at least not in the terms of DD. It seems to have been something that evolved organically. The audience responded, either to the character, or to Reedus himself (who I always thought was a likable guy onscreen), & the show responded. Or the producers, writing staff, somebody saw something there they liked, & started beefing up the part. In either case, he started off with a "also starring" credit (like Emily Kenny has now), & is now second billed if I noticed the credits right...

Now Michone was already written as such in the comics. Actually now that I think of it, at the point that they're at in the comics, Michone is still kind of sulky & closed. There has been some wonderful acting moments that have evolved on the show between her & Chandler Riggs. Again, I suspect this has been an organic evolution, but a welcome one. No such interaction exists in the comic if I'm not mistaken. (At least not at the point they're at now).

I'll even go out on a limb & say that by having a second/male "zombie ass kicker" character on the show, it has taken some of the burden of being that character off of the Michone character?

By having two of them, you can bounce back & forth & develop them as characters & still have the other doing "zombie ass kickery" type stuff, with out risking the perception that either is "going soft".

It's kind of a balancing act, IMO, trying to service different audiences all within the same show. You've got character driven drama fans, survival/simulation buffs, folks that prefer more action, & horror/gore hounds, and then some who enjoy ALL of those aspects, to one degree or another (which is probably where I would consider myself).

So, it seems like you try to throw in different elements that please those different members of your audience, without trying to alienate the others. So far I think they're doing a fine job of it. Sometimes they may go a little too much one way or the other, but that's the nature of a balancing act I suppose. But at the end of the day it has all evened out nicely thus far, so I'm happy.

Anyway, hadn't intended on going on this long. Saturday morning having the coffee & posting on the internet ramble. :)

Yeh, I've no argument with anything there really.

But, saying that, I prefer my horror deadly serious and a "gritty realism" trumps cartoon characters and failed attempts at humour every single time. I've never really understood people that cannot take a serious film. It still amazes me to this day that the likes of 'Day of the Dead' or 'The Thing' bombed at the box office.

Your right about Daryl. He was just little more than an extra at the beginning. The redneck brother of, frankly, an equally awful character (at least at the beginning) that's mutated into what he is today. But, I'll always have issues with these kind of "kewl" characters, especially when everyone else is painted so stark. Even if he dropped his crossbow, it would make a difference. Speaking of that crossbow...it must be made of some kind of super titanium or something, because the amount of zombie heads it's bashed in must be in double figures at the moment. Even an old fashioned, solid wood, arbalest would have shattered by now.

As for trying to please everyone by resorting to tokenism, this is a mistake that TV producers make all the time and end up eventually alienating a lot of their own audience. Thankfully, the silly characters have been kept to a minimum in 'The Walking Dead' and I hope it stays that way.

- - - Updated - - -


No here in the southern United States, especially in the small country towns, there are many guy's that are like Daryl with the crossbow and tracking skills. Hell in the south some mountain people do not eat if they do not hunt and kill, then skin and dress out their kill. For a good time them redknecks will get drunk, turn out all the lights and start swinging until only 1 is left standing. Michonne is the one that seems unreal to me.

That's all well and good if you're tracking something for YOUR food.

However, a crossbow is probably the worst weapon in anyone's arsenal if there's 8 or 9 hungry zombies barreling down on you and even worse when it's other humans, armed with something much better. Regardless of how cool Daryl thinks his crossbow is, practicality would dictate a better weapon for use.

Give Daryl a rifle and less "kewl" and I'll ease off on him. :D

But, as I already said, I don't really mind either Michonne or Daryl. But they do detract from the "realism" as it where.

[MoonSylver]

Oh, yeah...all those grenade slam dunking, commando trained, hard as nails North American types :lol:

Daryl really is some sort of wish-fulfillment for lots of male viewers, though. That much is clear.


Yeh, I've no argument with anything there really.

But, saying that, I prefer my horror deadly serious and a "gritty realism" trumps cartoon characters and failed attempts at humour every single time. I've never really understood people that cannot take a serious film. It still amazes me to this day that the likes of 'Day of the Dead' or 'The Thing' bombed at the box office.

Your right about Daryl. He was just little more than an extra at the beginning. The redneck brother of, frankly, an equally awful character (at least at the beginning) that's mutated into what he is today. But, I'll always have issues with these kind of "kewl" characters, especially when everyone else is painted so stark. Even if he dropped his crossbow, it would make a difference. Speaking of that crossbow...it must be made of some kind of super titanium or something, because the amount of zombie heads it's bashed in must be in double figures at the moment. Even an old fashioned, solid wood, arbalest would have shattered by now.

As for trying to please everyone by resorting to tokenism, this is a mistake that TV producers make all the time and end up eventually alienating a lot of their own audience. Thankfully, the silly characters have been kept to a minimum in 'The Walking Dead' and I hope it stays that way

That's all well and good if you're tracking something for YOUR food.

However, a crossbow is probably the worst weapon in anyone's arsenal if there's 8 or 9 hungry zombies barreling down on you and even worse when it's other humans, armed with something much better. Regardless of how cool Daryl thinks his crossbow is, practicality would dictate a better weapon for use.

Give Daryl a rifle and less "kewl" and I'll ease off on him. :D

But, as I already said, I don't really mind either Michonne or Daryl. But they do detract from the "realism" as it where.

Don't really disagree with either of these assessments. But a do still like & enjoy the character, even though I'm subliminally aware of all of the above.

For me at least, one of the nice things has been I've been getting both my "kick ass action" and "serious dramatic" urges satisfied IN THE SAME SHOW without one detracting TOO MUCH from the other. True the show might be more plausable & realistic if they were to ditch the former & concentrate solely on the latter. But it might not be as enjoyable either. *shrug*

As seen last night, they still have some wrinkles left to write for the character from a dramatic standpoint too, so its all good for the moment. :)

[Doc]

I'll reiterate my second season frothiness: Daryl must die for this show to have a full set of balls again.

This season has been great and I like the character, but come on...he's just too much.

I honestly feel the TWD writers have been cowardly about this. The only death, I've felt has been ballsy up to this point is Herschel. Every other character who have perished have either been either redshirted non-entities (T-Dog, Sophia, Axel, etc.) or are central characters who have been so extensively demonized that the audience cheers when they're killed (Andrea, Lori, Shane, etc.).

[zomtom]

I believe the "average" fan of TWD are not really "zombie" fans. They have jumped onto the bandwagon of something which has become popular. Many of us are into the apocalypse and dark endings., etc. Your average fan is not. Killing Daryl or Rick would be the beginning of the end of TWD. Many of these "average" fans would probably desert the show in droves. Gimple, Kirkman, and company are not stupid enough to ruin what they have to satisfy the urges of some zombie fans. As for me, I'm quite happy with what they are offering.