Iraq regime change

[Neil]

So the Iraq invasion for WMD, **oops sorry**, regime change (when none were found) has gone well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27828595


Islamist militants in Iraq have seized two new towns, widening their control after threatening to move on Baghdad.

The Sunni-led Islamists advanced into Saadiya and Jalawla in Diyala province and surrounding areas as security forces abandoned their posts.

[Publius]

Disappointing. Just heard they're evacuating U.S. personnel from Balad north of Baghdad, which is where I was. It's like Saigon 1975 all over again.

[Neil]

I can see militant/extreme Islam digging its claws into Iraq for a long time now. Fooking mess!

[Publius]

I can see militant/extreme Islam digging its claws into Iraq for a long time now. Fooking mess!
It can get way complicated. The Kurds up north seem to have a pretty good handle on things. But the more stable Iraqi Kurdistan gets, the more Turkey becomes nervous about its own restless Kurds. So the Iraqi Kurds are alleging that Turkey is supporting ISIS (the Iraqi rebels).

Meanwhile Iran surely doesn't want to see the Iraqi Shi'ite community get slaughtered, so Iran might get involved to prop up the Shi'ite-led government (according to some reports there are already Iranian Republican Guards in Iraq). And there are all kinds of complicated implications for the civil war in Syria (ISIS is one of the main rebel groups there too, and many Iraqi Shi'ite militiamen have been fighting on the side of the Syrian government and are now returning to Iraq to fight ISIS there).

[Neil]

So let me get this right. Bush and Blair got us into Iraq because of the WMDs and/or terrorist connections (Alqaeda)! - Infact I recall seeing footage on the news of discussion prior to the invasion, showing Hussein, with footage of the twin towers in the background.

Anyway, so after the invasion, it was pretty obvious there were not real WMDs, and certainly no Islamic terrorist groups (worth mentioning).


But what do we have now? The country filled with an extremist Islamic group, declaring war on anyone in their way!

And Blair is now currently on the news peddling more of his words of wisdom! Blair, F*** OFF! Let some people who know what the f*** they're doing any talking about handle it.


If you haven't noticed I'm pretty pi$$ed off at Blair raising his head again! He should be hiding in shame at the mess he's made of Iraq.

[rongravy]

Ehhh, that place should be left as nothing more than a smoking crater.
Just a bunch of assholes jockeying for position to oppress/rape/murder the rest of the population.
Sad.

[Mr. Clean]

So let me get this right. Bush and Blair got us into Iraq because of the WMDs and/or terrorist connections (Alqaeda)! - Infact I recall seeing footage on the news of discussion prior to the invasion, showing Hussein, with footage of the twin towers in the background.

Anyway, so after the invasion, it was pretty obvious there were not real WMDs, and certainly no Islamic terrorist groups (worth mentioning).


But what do we have now? The country filled with an extremist Islamic group, declaring war on anyone in their way!

And Blair is now currently on the news peddling more of his words of wisdom! Blair, F*** OFF! Let some people who know what the f*** they're doing any talking about handle it.


If you haven't noticed I'm pretty pi$$ed off at Blair raising his head again! He should be hiding in shame at the mess he's made of Iraq.

You don't think that the possibility exists that the WMDs were funneled up to Syria? Syria's sarin gas attacks could have came from those WMDs...

Just saying...

[EvilNed]

You don't think that the possibility exists that the WMDs were funneled up to Syria? Syria's sarin gas attacks could have came from those WMDs...

Just saying...

How convenient, now we've got a reason to go there as well!

[Neil]

Boris Johnson: Blair should 'put a sock in it' over Iraq - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27867265

[shootemindehead]

Johnson should STFU.

He considered the invasion of Iraq a "liberation" in 2004.

Bloody clown.

[Neil]

And the region (world) slips a little more back into the Medieval Ages - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28082962


Islamist militant group Isis has said it is establishing a caliphate, or Islamic state, on the territories it controls in Iraq and Syria.

More mindless inhumane religion based laws. Women treated as second class human beings. And all that other great stuff extreme Islam brings to the table!!

[EvilNed]

Geez, I like to think of myself as an open-minded, socialist and leftleaning spirit... But there are some religions I dislike more than others, and this is certainly one of them. Islam, more than any other religion in this day and age, pushes people to extremes and cause more pain and suffering than the Catholic Church is currently doing.

[shootemindehead]

What did everyone think was going to happen when the one guy that had all this shit under relative control was killed?

Libya's in a an absolute mess, as well since Gaddafi was whacked.

And if Assad goes in Syria, you can bet your life the same disaster will happen there.

[Geordie9]

I personally think Islam is a poison of a religion with people making it up as they go along. I just don't get all this religion nonsense, i think its a load of bollocks.

[Neil]

Pat Condell - my hero - has quite strong views on Islam... Many of which I have to admit make sense...

jIaGWURONRU

[Neil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28143749

"Britain is pure evil!"

"When the Islamic state comes to conquer Britain"

"God (Quran) has commanded us to kill"

Islam at times = :duh:

[Neil]

Seems the poor Iraqi's are now getting Islam's full humane and peaceful approach to the law - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-iraq-security-stoning-idUSKBN0GM0Q820140822

[Publius]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28143749

"Britain is pure evil!"

"When the Islamic state comes to conquer Britain"

"God (Quran) has commanded us to kill"

Islam at times = :duh:

It was apparently a Brit who beheaded James Foley too. I don't know what y'all are gonna do to stop that from repeating. But it looks like that might be the question of our century.

[Staredge]

Whether you agree with the initial invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein or not, the thought occurs that having us up sticks and leave because of a politically derived date on the calendar probably wasn't the best frakkin idea. If you're gonna start some shit, you need to see it through. This ain't on Bush anymore....this is purely on Obama.

[krisvds]

Seems the poor Iraqi's are now getting Islam's full humane and peaceful approach to the law - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-iraq-security-stoning-idUSKBN0GM0Q820140822

I do not think it's fair to put what is happening with 'IS' purely on the religion. Not every Muslim sympathises with these barbarians. Far from it.
Most of the young people who travel to Syria to fight know little of the religion. In Belgium two youngsters ordered the book 'Islam for Dummies' on amazon before travelling to the Middle East (no joke!).
These young men who are rapidly radicialising are doing so in a vain search for identity, are under a lot of peer pressure, and jump to a cause that gives them the feeling they 'belong'. Religion has little to do with it I believe...
Most of the muslims I know are as disgusted with what is happening now as the rest of us.

[shootemindehead]

+1...

[Neil]

I do not think it's fair to put what is happening with 'IS' purely on the religion. Not every Muslim sympathises with these barbarians. Far from it.
Most of the young people who travel to Syria to fight know little of the religion. In Belgium two youngsters ordered the book 'Islam for Dummies' on amazon before travelling to the Middle East (no joke!).
These young men who are rapidly radicialising are doing so in a vain search for identity, are under a lot of peer pressure, and jump to a cause that gives them the feeling they 'belong'. Religion has little to do with it I believe...
Most of the muslims I know are as disgusted with what is happening now as the rest of us.

Yes and no.

What is interesting is these horrible events are being described as the work of "extremists." But if we consider that matter for the moment, the Muslims living down the road from you are probably not devout Muslims following their religion (Quran) to the exact "law". Instead they'll be practicing their own (watered down) "version" of it.

These extremists of course, are simply following said religion to the exact letter. As such are they really extremists or just devout followers? Hence we end up with (as prescribed in the Quran) people being stoned to death for adultery, or being killed for not following Islam. Extremist? Or simply devout?


And on a related matter why are other Arabic countries surrounding/near Iraq not vocal on their disgust of IS' actions? What a strong statement it would be for Muslim organisations/countries/governments to raise their voices/hands against IS as it butchers innocent people eg: christians)?


ps: I apologise for my "strong feelings" on this, but Islam really does my f***ing head in at times, more so than other religions if only because it's seemingly so cock sure of itself at the expense of other people right not to just live in peace and practice their own beliefs, but to simply even be allowed to stay alive!



It was apparently a Brit who beheaded James Foley too. I don't know what y'all are gonna do to stop that from repeating. But it looks like that might be the question of our century.

All I know is I hope as many of these idiots are already over there as possible... and we keep them over there, until such time as a bomb can deport them from this plane of existance.

[shootemindehead]

No matter how crazy some peoples version of Islam happens to be, they've a long, long way to catch up on the crimes of Christianity throughout the centuries.

Any Muslim I have ever met has been nothing like the nutjobs one is looking at on the TV/web, like this ISIS (now just IS) crowd.

My barber is a pretty devout Muslim, from Baghdad, and he's appalled by the scenes as much as anybody else. IS certainly do not speak for him, his family or his friends. His opinion on the situation in Iraq is pretty much in line with my own and that's Saddam Hussein was keeping these radicals under lock and key and was demonised by the west for it, to justify an illegal war. Now, in the vacuum of power that exists, a band of just 10,000 disparate extremists can control huge swathes of territory, with arms largely supplied by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (who in turn had received them from the US).

This is also a group that the US and Britain has known about for some time as well. They haven't just sprung up out of nowhere. An offshoot of Al Qaeda (who has disowned them) and who were previously fighting against Assad in Syria, who were going to be indirectly backed by the US and Britain, if they had gotten involved in that theatre too. These guys haven't been quiet either. They've caused god knows what damage in Syria, but now they're public enemy No.1 because they have a strong hold in the oil rich Kurdistan area.

[Staredge]

No matter how crazy some peoples version of Islam happens to be, they've a long, long way to catch up on the crimes of Christianity throughout the centuries.



?!?!?!?!?!?!? Yeah, 'cause it was all dates and honey up until recent times for Islam.

[Neil]

No matter how crazy some peoples version of Islam happens to be, they've a long, long way to catch up on the crimes of Christianity throughout the centuries.True, but let's focus on today shall we. In which cultures and belief groups are people being stoned to death for apostasy, or witch craft etc? One religion will come out on top. And I know it's a cultural thing, BUT the fact the Quran tells/suggests it's followers should behave in this way, IMHO is a huge part of the problem.

How many mobs of Jain followers do you see in the news stoning some poor individual to death for simply deciding to change faith?


Any Muslim I have ever met has been nothing like the nutjobs one is looking at on the TV/web, like this ISIS (now just IS) crowd.

My barber is a pretty devout Muslim, from Baghdad, and he's appalled by the scenes as much as anybody else. IS certainly do not speak for him, his family or his friends. His opinion on the situation in Iraq is pretty much in line with my own and that's Saddam Hussein was keeping these radicals under lock and key and was demonised by the west for it, to justify an illegal war. Now, in the vacuum of power that exists, a band of just 10,000 disparate extremists can control huge swathes of territory, with arms largely supplied by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (who in turn had received them from the US).True, but I'd hark back to the point it could be argued these are NOT actually extremist, they are simply following the Quran "exactly". They are devout not extremist.


This is also a group that the US and Britain has known about for some time as well. They haven't just sprung up out of nowhere. An offshoot of Al Qaeda (who has disowned them) and who were previously fighting against Assad in Syria, who were going to be indirectly backed by the US and Britain, if they had gotten involved in that theatre too. These guys haven't been quiet either. They've caused god knows what damage in Syria, but now they're public enemy No.1 because they have a strong hold in the oil rich Kurdistan area.True, but once again, US and Britain's name comes up as if it's their job to police an Arabic area. And when we do, how does Islam see that? Can't win if we do (get involved) and can't win if we don't.


You what I'd love to see come out of this? Iran, on the ground, ending IS! What a powerful statement that would be!


ps: I know I'm at risk as coming across as "grumpy old man" with my attitude here, but I'm just so sick of seeing Islam as the repeated cause of people simply not being able to live the way they want to, and believe what they want to. Islam just seems at its core unable to let others go about their affairs without it deciding it knows better!

[Neil]

As regards IS being declared extremists simply because they are doing things we consider barbaric, let's consider their current grisly habit of beheading people. Is this extremism? Or are they simply following the Quran?

“I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” (Sura 8, Verse 12)

“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads.” (Sura 47, Verse 4)

[Neil]

As George Galloway says, is it 'their battle not ours'? Should we keep out of the battle against IS?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29376769

[Publius]

Now we've had an Islamist beheading right in Oklahoma. More fun times ahead, I'm sure.

[Neil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29921816

"The people killed by Islamic State are American agents. We must behead them as Allah said in the Koran."

As I've said before, these people are not really extremists... they are simply doing exactly what their religious doctorines them to do!

[Rottedfreak]

I think the West is going to crack down on Islam.

[Neil]

I think the West is going to crack down on Islam.

Something somewhere has to give. Some of the core principles of its religious doctorine and cultural expectations simply don't fit in with the 20th century, yet alone 21st!

[Neil]

IS take Ramadi!

What a mess - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32773780


Ramadi is the capital of Iraq's largest province, Anbar, and is just 70 miles (112km) west of Baghdad.

[Neil]

Now... How long until we start seeing the footage of the ancient buildings/artifacts at Palmyra being destroyed in the name of some virgin obsessed Sky Fairy - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32820857

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83136000/jpg/_83136116_83119806.jpg