One thing that just occured to me...

[AssassinFromHell]

One of the big highlights in the original trilogy was hiding from the problem. Isolating yourself in a secure area in order to survive the problem. In Night of the Living Dead, you had them hiding out in the farm house. In Dawn of the Dead, you had them hiding out in a mall. In Day of the Dead, you had them hiding out in an underground bunker. That was where a majority of the movie took place. It wasn't really out in the open, and going through the mess.

In Land of the Dead, when the Dead Reckoning was hijacked, it took us out into the open. Even though the movie focused on an isolated city, we saw alot of the outside world. Through the guys exploring the ruins of civilization, and through the fight for the Dead Reckoning. It wasn't like the others, where the main characters were fighting the problem from within a building or isolation.

Anyone ever think about this?

[MinionZombie]

Come to think of it, I'd never actually thought of it in that way...nice point there AFH.

It's part of why I like Land so much - you see this ravaged world we've spent all this time hiding from, now we see what's become of it - and the simple topics of how they survive - by going out raiding. :cool:

Yay "Land of the Dead"!!!

[bassman]

I don't think I ever thought of it that way.

Personally, I really enjoy the zombies being the protagonists and the commentary on the film(although I think most around here didn't).

Even the "They're just looking for a place to go" line that everyone whined about. It was a bit straight-forward but Romero's films have always been like that. It says something about the world today and I really dig it.

[AcesandEights]

That's one of the reasons that makes LOTD so refreshing, it takes that next ponderous step forward in the telling of the broader story. I mean, I know most people on these boards must have stopped and thought about the state of those who managed to survive for any real length of time in the Romeroverse, and, while LotD doesn't take as keen a look as I'd like into the workings of the survivor's society, it is a refreshing change to see this portrayed in a Romero film. And naturally you're not going to build much of a society in an underground bunker, or a shopping mall, so we finally got to see a little (more) daylight and some decent wreckage.

It's what really got me enjoying the whole playing up of man's ability regarding, and self-proclaimed penchant for, survival, and how humanity has a way of hauling itself up from the edge of the abyss, just to spit in the eye of providence, take life for granted and forget how close death can truly be at hand. It reminded me a lot of that Robert Frost passage about Ararat (http://www.poemhunter.com/quotations/famous.asp?people=Robert%20Frost&p=3), especially the scenes of the carefree raiders seemingly oblivious to the horror that surrounds them and the fact that they are, possibly, a hair's breadth away from extinction.

Anyway, I hope we'll get to see more flicks that look at how the world at large fares and copes (or fails to cope) more than just a few days or weeks after the rising and the conflicts between those that only wish to survive off the bloated corpse of the old world and those who want to build anew.

[MinionZombie]

And a BIG plus in favour of Land - it wasn't another 'beginning of the plague' movie - none of that crap of a bunch of people shooting them in the chest and wondering why it's not working *argh!*

All you ever see is the beginning of the plague *yawn - it's been done enough* - Land gave us 5 years down the track at essentially mankind's last chance for survival.

I also really liked the "they're just looking for a place to go" thing - it was what GAR was going for, putting the zombies and the people on an even level - and occasionally making you feel sympathy for the zombies at times.

AND - Land features "Number 9", the hottest zombie chick ever ... 'sick' perhaps, but it is just a woman in make up...but for a zombie she's pretty hot, lol. :D

[jdog]

i also like the fact that land takes place when society is just starting to rebuild and adapt to the zombie plague.
and yes "number 9" is hot even as a zombie

[Adrenochrome]

i also like the fact that land takes place when society is just starting to rebuild and adapt to the zombie plague.
and yes "number 9" is hot even as a zombie
mmmmm #9

[Arcades057]

Don't like to see them getting shot in the chest? Nearly every shot from Land WAS in the chest! You'd think that after, what, three years the people would know one-shot-one-kill.

What I want to see from a zombie movie (hopefully from Land 2 if it's given the green light) is a movie that expands more on the world. I want to see the first days, but from a wide perspective, not just on one group. Imagine Dawn 78, but expanded. I want to see zombies in NY, zombies on the white house lawn, the last plane leaving La Guardia as hundreds of civilians wait on the tarmac for another plane that will never come, I want to see the reaction of the Muslim world to the rising dead, I want to see the Pope's response to the rising, I want to see a scene reminiscent of War of the Worlds, where the army and air force throw everything they have at the zombies only to see thousands more coming. Admittedly, that's a lot to show, but it can be done. I watched a movie called "The day after" last night about a nuclear war. They used stock footage of ICBMs taking off and exposed film to mimic the thermonuclear clouds; low budget but it looked nice. A really good friggin movie that probably cost about a tenth of Land.

Land left me wanting more. The things I liked most about the movie were the little things: Seeing the plane smashed through a wall when they leave the city, seeing the individual zombies and how they died, I liked seeing how the humans lived. But that was about it.

[MinionZombie]

Better to be left wanting more than sat looking at your watch is what I always say.

As for that epic across America zombie tour you described...probably quite far beyond GAR's resources...and some of it would have been situated much earlier in the franchise, say around the time of Dawn of the Dead.

But of course - not everyone's going to be capable of pulling off a head shot - e.g. Kaufman, who'd be too busy drinking champagne than taking time out on the shooting gallery. Plus he (and others) would be cakking their pants, lulled into a false sense of security that they were safe - they let their guard down - many didn't bother about learning how to use a gun.

Also, getting a headshot with an M16, through a big fence, facing a HOARD of zombies you weren't expecting ... probably not the easiest thing. Plus, sometimes it just has to happen to keep the plot moving, if they shot them all in the head then the movie would grind to a halt.

But there were still plenty of head shots throughout you have to admit.

[Arcades057]

The headshot I was mainly talking about was the one where the zombie gets stuck on the fence. The idiot shoots off a whole magazine to kill it.

[axlish]

Judging by the progression of the previous four films, part 5 should be about total all out war. Either we take it, or they do. In Land, we are no longer hiding, but they are getting smarter. In part 5, there will be more Big Daddy level zombies, training others. They'll all be carrying weapons. Part 5's name, WAR OF THE DEAD!!!! Big Daddy marches on Dead Reckoning and Cleveland... TONIGHT! :p

[AcesandEights]

The headshot I was mainly talking about was the one where the zombie gets stuck on the fence. The idiot shoots off a whole magazine to kill it.

I always felt the "officer" on duty should have made that chick police up her brass after wasting so many shots. Then again, I would have had standing orders to collect any spent shells when not in the middle of an emergency (i.e. after target practice and in "controlled situations," such as what we saw at the perimeter fenceline shooting).

[bassman]

It might of just been some kind of scheme to get Romero's daughter on film a bit longer. The woman shooting the zombie on the fence is Romero's daughter.

Romero says this on the commentary and he said that she loved shooting that gun so they probably just rolled on her for alittle while and then ended up editing in a bit more than needed into the final film.

[Scousezombie]

OOh that's an interesting bit of trivia, I hadn't realised she was his daughter.

The film was a lot less static than Night or Day; I didn't feel that Dawn 78 was quite as limited, as we did get to see a few different locations, plus news and radio reports.

As I was watching the film, in particular the street market scenes showing us the disaffected poor of the city, I kept thinking of that old series 'The Equaliser' although perhaps that was also because Charlie used to be in it...

[Tullaryx]

My brother and I talked about the godawful marksmanship from the soldiers employed by Kaufman and we boiled it down to two things. One, they were pretty much panicking once they realized the zombies had gotten in and an assault rifle is a kind of weapon that needs a steady hand for accuracy. Plus, they were spraying burst instead of taking steady single-shots. Second, the soldiers probably became so complacent with having the river and the electrified fence protect them from the zombies that they never had a chance to practice real life shooting. This could easily have been done by sending out not just raiding parties (and the raiders seemed to have better aim if one looked at the film), but by sending out patrols of soldiers to search and destroy pockets of zombies near the city.

[bassman]

Great points, Tullaryx.

I didn't really think of that. I guess they would have gotten accustomed to the fence/rivers protecting them...

[Tullaryx]

Great points, Tullaryx.

I didn't really think of that. I guess they would have gotten accustomed to the fence/rivers protecting them...

not just that but Kaufman and his police/soldier force failed to study the bible of zombie survival: Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide. Just because the zombies had stopped trying to get through the electrified fence, it doesn't mean they're still not out there. By going out to do regular search and destroy missions they would not just lower the immediate zombie population in the area, but keep their men trained to deal with the real thing.

[jdog]

not just that but Kaufman and his police/soldier force failed to study the bible of zombie survival: Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide. Just because the zombies had stopped trying to get through the electrified fence, it doesn't mean they're still not out there. By going out to do regular search and destroy missions they would not just lower the immediate zombie population in the area, but keep their men trained to deal with the real thing.
very good points. that would make for a good scene for the film to.
and yes it would make sence to go out and distroy the zombies. this would give the soldiers practice
but just because we never seen it in the movie it dosn't meen that it didn't happen. we just have to use our imaginations a little to see it.

[Tullaryx]

very good points. that would make for a good scene for the film to.
and yes it would make sence to go out and distroy the zombies. this would give the soldiers practice
but just because we never seen it in the movie it dosn't meen that it didn't happen. we just have to use our imaginations a little to see it.

Yeah, but the way those soldiers reacted once the zombies got in tells me theyve gotten laxed. Like someone else said somewhere around here. A disciplined firing line that gradually rotated back would've thinned out the horde considerably. They probably would've still been overrun in time since groups of zombies could've come out in other directions, but firing wildly and barely getting much headshots in told me they didn't get the practice.

[Deadman_Deluxe]

not just that but Kaufman and his police/soldier force failed to study the bible of zombie survival: Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide. Just because the zombies had stopped trying to get through the electrified fence, it doesn't mean they're still not out there. By going out to do regular search and destroy missions they would not just lower the immediate zombie population in the area, but keep their men trained to deal with the real thing.


So far as i know Land of the Dead was somewhat of a "serious" movie ... whereas the book by max brook's is actually classed as "humour".

Had they actually followed the advice given in this work of fiction/modern day comedy classic they would most likely have been stuck in Mr K's penthouse as a result of somone destroying the staircase or something :D

Search and destroy would do nothing except bring even more of them into the immediate area, and would be a bad idea in general considering they probably had less ammunition than would be required to handle on ongoing siege, nevermind search and destroy.

[Tullaryx]

So far as i know Land of the Dead was somewhat of a "serious" movie ... whereas the book by max brook's is actually classed as "humour".

Had they actually followed the advice given in this work of fiction/modern day comedy classic they would most likely have been stuck in Mr K's penthouse as a result of somone destroying the staircase or something :D

Search and destroy would do nothing except bring even more of them into the immediate area, and would be a bad idea in general considering they probably had less ammunition than would be required to handle on ongoing siege, nevermind search and destroy.

Pfft! Max Brook's Bible is sacred! SACRED!

Actually, shutting down the elevators in Fiddler's Green would've worked and saved those who weren't on the main level. And Brook's book may be all in jest, but it does point out quite good tips on surviving. Some of which seems very common sense. I get yer meaning about the Search and Destroy thing and maybe the low-amount of ammo they may have in stock, but if they're still able to come out with new assault weapons (that fancy looking one at the armory which really is a H&K G36 compact), then I'm assuming they have a small, but adequate way of manufacturing ammo.

[Zombieapocalypse]

I think when Brooks released the book most people really thought it was to be this monumental book dedicated to the survival in a plagued world, yada yada yada. After successfully reading this "Guide" in about 30 minutes I was sorely dissapointed. Which brings me to GAR's movies!:cool:
I think you can learn from all of his films, LOTD included, about survival. The runs for supplies showed that at least the humans became somewhat organized. The fighting and bickering between eachother (Mostly) stopped long enough to make these runs for the much needed supplies.
I really enjoyed LOTD and GAR's constant attention on the zombies ability to adapt and to learn. This gave the film a much fresher (If the smell of Carrion can be considered fresh :p ) and "Open" feel for the newer and the old school Zombie fanatics out there.

[Tullaryx]

One thing that LOTD made me contemplate was whether survival in such a world, especially when gathering a large number of survivors, would require an iron-fist type of leadership or will civil rights and democracy still be the benchmark people would follow. It seems that as horrible as it might sound to champions of civil rights, i'd rather be led by an iron-fist type of leader who does whats needed to help the group survive than constantly debating whether someone was violating someone else's rights.

To that extent Fiddler's Green was a success. A shame its leaders and protectors didn't build on their initial success.

[Zombieapocalypse]

I agree with you completely Tull. I think if I was forced to be a follower and NOT a leader I would be much more inclined to follow the Iron-fist then some yuppy looking to better his/herself. In a world of survival the group will get much further than a single person I believe.

[MinionZombie]

But also think of it this way - they're soldiers in the movie, but are they *really* soldiers. Most certainly MANY military men were chewed up and therefore you'd probably get a bunch of soldier n00bs who haven't gone through the proper training that real soldiers get. They're probably really only soldier by title, rather than training.

[Tullaryx]

But also think of it this way - they're soldiers in the movie, but are they *really* soldiers. Most certainly MANY military men were chewed up and therefore you'd probably get a bunch of soldier n00bs who haven't gone through the proper training that real soldiers get. They're probably really only soldier by title, rather than training.

Yeah, that was another factor that came to my conclusions. But I'm sure there were enough former military and police personnel with most of the "soldiers" in the film. But even such people could be trained to fight properly if their commanders and those in power really wanted to protect the city. Those soldiers seemed more guards at keeping the population in rather than keeping the zombies out.

Plus, the notion that search and destroy missions would bring in more zombies is abit misleading since the area around the electrified fence have enough human activity and noises to attract the zombies en masse. The same goes for the vehicle depot where Dead Reckoning, the vehicles and some of their weapons and ammo storages were kept at.

[Brubaker]

My brother and I talked about the godawful marksmanship from the soldiers employed by Kaufman and we boiled it down to two things. One, they were pretty much panicking once they realized the zombies had gotten in and an assault rifle is a kind of weapon that needs a steady hand for accuracy. Plus, they were spraying burst instead of taking steady single-shots. Second, the soldiers probably became so complacent with having the river and the electrified fence protect them from the zombies that they never had a chance to practice real life shooting. This could easily have been done by sending out not just raiding parties (and the raiders seemed to have better aim if one looked at the film), but by sending out patrols of soldiers to search and destroy pockets of zombies near the city.

I think there just weren't enough soldiers. You only had two in the tower, one of whom was the guy that got eaten jumping down. The other was the woman who shot up the zombie at the fence earlier in the movie. Between the guy who got eaten the second he jumped from the tower and the two morons taking target practice, you had three guys who were dead without ever killing a single zombie.

Brubaker was on the ground with one or two other men firing on the fence. One of these guys had a completely different uniform from the rest of the soldiers. There may have been 3-4 others who were in the mix that weren't necessarily visible on the screen. Guys that rushed out from the building or from somewhere else in the background. I get the impression, at the most, there may have been between 8-12 soldiers who would be out there to fight off any zombies. You may say there are more "soldier zombies" than that roaming around inside the building where the ammo was, when Riley gets inside, but two of them would probably be the guys who were taking target practice. If Brubaker was already a zombie, then those two would have been and they would have wandered into the ammo building.

Thirdly, I don't think any of them had the opportunity to get more ammo since whatever weapons they had on them at the moment would be it. Brubaker and the rest started shooting the second the alarm went off, meaning they weren't able to really reload.

They would have probably been facing between 500-1000 zombies, give or take. The thing that surprised me wasn't their marksmanship but the fact that they never bothered retreating since they could have just headed for the river or into town.

Now say that Cholo never steals Dead Reckoning and those zombies rush the fence while the soldiers and Dead Reckoning are there. Does it turn out any differently?

[ssbib]

Yeah, good point. It was interesting to see the ruined world and you believed as they drove through the Chaos driven streets that there were thousands of stories out there to be told.

One thing that has occured to me though is that now were at the stage in the outbreak where most of if not nearly all of the world has been overrun by Zombies then if Romero DOES another sequel then it wont include my favourite part of the Zombie outbreak...THE START. I'd love to see a Romero Zombie film set exclusively in the City limits just as Zombie numbers begin to rise to a threatening level. People running scared and explosions goin off everywhere. Imagine the first 8 minutes of Dawn04 but running for 90 mins. And another thing I loved from the first 2 movies were the news reports which gave you a view into what was happening in the outside world. I loved the news reports and also the DVD extras on Dawn04. Quality stuff

[Brubaker]

Yeah, good point. It was interesting to see the ruined world and you believed as they drove through the Chaos driven streets that there were thousands of stories out there to be told.

One thing that has occured to me though is that now were at the stage in the outbreak where most of if not nearly all of the world has been overrun by Zombies then if Romero DOES another sequel then it wont include my favourite part of the Zombie outbreak...THE START. I'd love to see a Romero Zombie film set exclusively in the City limits just as Zombie numbers begin to rise to a threatening level. People running scared and explosions goin off everywhere. Imagine the first 8 minutes of Dawn04 but running for 90 mins. And another thing I loved from the first 2 movies were the news reports which gave you a view into what was happening in the outside world. I loved the news reports and also the DVD extras on Dawn04. Quality stuff

It is something to think about. How long before most of society fell to the undead? That and people were STILL giving out "news" reports stating that outposts were being established and pondering what would happen if the zombies ever started to think. I wonder how long people were issuing reports on the crisis and how long the EBS was actually up. Where were people being told to go and what were they being told to do after rescue stations were no longer an option?

[darth los]

Yeah, good point. It was interesting to see the ruined world and you believed as they drove through the Chaos driven streets that there were thousands of stories out there to be told.

It's too bad that there weren't thousands of zombies depicted out there to go with those stories. You would think that the perimeter around a city like pittsburgh would be crawling with ghouls.

[Philly_SWAT]

It's too bad that there weren't thousands of zombies depicted out there to go with those stories. You would think that the perimeter around a city like pittsburgh would be crawling with ghouls.

Well, there is a lot of empty houses in the 'Burgh.....

[darth los]

Well, there is a lot of empty houses in the 'Burgh.....

I guess i'll have to defer to you on that one seeing as i've never been there. :)

[sandrock74]

I rather liked Land of the Dead. I liked that we got to see a bit of the outside world for a bit. It looked like I imagined it would, abandoned ruins. Not many zombies around as they tend to travel once reanimated. Maybe they went to the mall?
Romero did do a good job giving the sky an eternally dark appearance and made it oppresive and dreary even thou it was outside. It was a good touch.

[SRP76]

I'm opposite.

It drove me up the wall to see a lack of zombies outside Pittsburgh. This is the point in time where the dead have overrun EVERYTHING. Evry square inch of the "outside world" should have been flat-out crawling with flesheaters. Instead, Riley and crew are just chilling at the roadside, with a handful of them far off on a hillside. And I won't mention the lack of dead when Mouse gets dropped off.

And speaking of roadside, major aggravation point #2:

Dead Reckoning has to take "main roads", and just rolls all over the damn place, unhindered. YEAH, RIGHT! Every single street in America would be absolutely choked with abandoned husks of wrecked automobiles. The Reckoning wouldn't have made it ten feet out of Pittsburgh.

There are plenty of other things, but this isn't an essay....

[sandrock74]

I don't know, zombies are perfectly mobile so why would they stay where they dropped at the time of death? They wouldn't. They would shamble about.
Also, just WHY would streets be full of cars? I think we are conditioned to think of "there was an apocalypse and so natuarally everyone drove their cars into the street and left them there before running off to die" due to past movies. I don't think this would happen so much in small towns or rural areas. Big cities thou, for sure.
For all we know, the Dead Reckoning crew had already worked to clear the streets of the surrounding towns to make life easier for them later. That would make sense...and also account for the lack of zombies in the area.

[Legion2213]

I rather liked Land of the Dead. I liked that we got to see a bit of the outside world for a bit. It looked like I imagined it would, abandoned ruins. Not many zombies around as they tend to travel once reanimated. Maybe they went to the mall?
Romero did do a good job giving the sky an eternally dark appearance and made it oppresive and dreary even thou it was outside. It was a good touch.

Yes, visually, it was absolutely spot on...there wasn't a single beam of sunshine in the whole movie...even when it was light, it was still gloomy, oppresive etc

[Trin]

I enjoyed seeing the world outside the protected areas in Land. I agree that it was well shot and gave a good post-apocalyptic feel.

But I want to know, like others, where were the zombies? The whole movie was just devoid of zombies. None at the fences, on the riverbanks, or in the surrounding countryside. They weren't clearing them out as they extended their scavenging outward, and they weren't beset by zombies at the fences the next day as the newly attracted ones followed them back.

In Day it was months into the outbreak, they appeared to be in a very remote location, and still new zombies were showing up at the fences daily. It was clear that zombies would be attracted from a very large radius around a human population.

Given the utter lack of zombies I'd think Mulligan and crew could've just walked out and been okay.

[Legion2213]

I enjoyed seeing the world outside the protected areas in Land. I agree that it was well shot and gave a good post-apocalyptic feel.

But I want to know, like others, where were the zombies? The whole movie was just devoid of zombies. None at the fences, on the riverbanks, or in the surrounding countryside. They weren't clearing them out as they extended their scavenging outward, and they weren't beset by zombies at the fences the next day as the newly attracted ones followed them back.

In Day it was months into the outbreak, they appeared to be in a very remote location, and still new zombies were showing up at the fences daily. It was clear that zombies would be attracted from a very large radius around a human population.

Given the utter lack of zombies I'd think Mulligan and crew could've just walked out and been okay.

I think I saw more zombies on screen in Dawn and Day than I did in Land. Very disapointing. Hell, there were more in the Dawn remake as well.

[clanglee]

Yeah, the beginning of Day had a LOT of zombies. As soon as they heard miguels whiney bullhorned voice they swarmed out of buildings and alleys where they were just SITTING. Not wandering, but just sort of sitting or laying around. One small downtown area was able to produce a small horde of zombies in only a few minutes. But outside of Pittsburg:rolleyes: and we get 5 or 6? Hmmm

[SRP76]

I don't know, zombies are perfectly mobile so why would they stay where they dropped at the time of death? They wouldn't. They would shamble about.
Also, just WHY would streets be full of cars? I think we are conditioned to think of "there was an apocalypse and so natuarally everyone drove their cars into the street and left them there before running off to die" due to past movies. I don't think this would happen so much in small towns or rural areas. Big cities thou, for sure.
For all we know, the Dead Reckoning crew had already worked to clear the streets of the surrounding towns to make life easier for them later. That would make sense...and also account for the lack of zombies in the area.


Yes, the dead might shamble around. And those dead that shamble away from Pittsburgh would be replaced by dead that are shambling toward Pittsburgh, from other places. And if they had any idea that there was live meat in that city, well they'd never leave. There would just be more and more every day.

And choked traffic happens if one city gets hit with a hurricane. Now, imagine EVERY city on planet Earth getting struck, which is what happens here. People panic, and jump in their cars, EVERY SINGLE TIME. All that traffic would end up abandoned, because the dead don't just hang around at the offramp. They'll be wading right into the traffic jams, eating people right out of their seatbelts.

[sandrock74]

To die in a traffic jam...my nightmare. Only thing worse is to die at work!
As to the lack of zombies, I figure they just die off eventually. We only have Logans word (Day) that they could be mobile for several years. I don't know about ANY of you, but I never took ANYTHING he said too seriously. He was obviously unhinged and was grasping at straws same as everyone else.
What's to say most or all of the "original" zombies haven't rotted away by this point? And factoring in how many may have been dispatched by scouting patrols and/or previous raids, the zombie count would be lower than expected.
Either case, it's just a movie. :)

[7734]

Either case, it's just a movie. :)

?!?!?!?!?

That's like saying the bible is just a fictional account of....

wait. bad example.

[Trin]

Uniontown disproves almost any theory of zombies dying out or wandering off or losing interest in humans. Uniontown was full of zombies. They were still attracted to humans. They were still wearing clothing from a pre-outbreak period (baseball uniform, gas station attendant, butcher shop apron). Everything there was exactly how you'd expect a town to be that had been essentially undisturbed since the outbreak.

There's almost no way to justify the lack of zombies around the Green without assuming that the residents cleared out the half million zombies that would've been at the fences, walls and riverbanks, and then further assuming that they kept those areas cleared for years afterward as new zombies arrived. The zombies simply would've still been there if that hadn't been the case.

Here's my theory of why the guards and military failed. I believe that after the Green was created and the area was secured Kaufman took the guns away from those that did the work (guys like Mulligan) and he put in place his own watered down military filled with lackeys. They were chosen for their sheep-like loyalty and their ability to keep the humans in line, not for their skills at zombie defense. It's a theory - poke holes in it.

How scary would it have been if there were a million zombies outside the walls and Cholo takes Dead Reckoning and threatens to rocket the walls to let them in? Maybe he rockets one wall every hour that he doesn't get his money. That's the movie I'd like to see.

[Legion2213]

Uniontown disproves almost any theory of zombies dying out or wandering off or losing interest in humans. Uniontown was full of zombies. They were still attracted to humans. They were still wearing clothing from a pre-outbreak period (baseball uniform, gas station attendant, butcher shop apron). Everything there was exactly how you'd expect a town to be that had been essentially undisturbed since the outbreak.

There's almost no way to justify the lack of zombies around the Green without assuming that the residents cleared out the half million zombies that would've been at the fences, walls and riverbanks, and then further assuming that they kept those areas cleared for years afterward as new zombies arrived. The zombies simply would've still been there if that hadn't been the case.

Here's my theory of why the guards and military failed. I believe that after the Green was created and the area was secured Kaufman took the guns away from those that did the work (guys like Mulligan) and he put in place his own watered down military filled with lackeys. They were chosen for their sheep-like loyalty and their ability to keep the humans in line, not for their skills at zombie defense. It's a theory - poke holes in it.

How scary would it have been if there were a million zombies outside the walls and Cholo takes Dead Reckoning and threatens to rocket the walls to let them in? Maybe he rockets one wall every hour that he doesn't get his money. That's the movie I'd like to see.

Mate, it would've been sh*t your pants time without Cholo threatening to blast the walls...it would've been "Land of the Dead" as it should have been!

The rest of you post is also spot on IMO...I've no military experience, but those guards didn't seem like profesional/real soldiers to me...more like blokes wearing military gear without any of the training.

[MinionZombie]

As for the guards or whomever, surely the vast majority of real military folk would have been on the front lines from the get go, 3 years before the events of Land of the Dead. What I mean is, most would have no doubt been killed or gone MIA, so they'd have to recruit their own guards and soldiers, who wouldn't be given the training real soldiers would get - and with limited ammunition, or not wanting to waste a load, they'd have limited firearms training.

Makes sense to me.

[Legion2213]

Which begs the question - "who secured the Green?"

Sure as Hell wasn't the bozo's who were unable to fend off Big D and his "army of dozens..."

[bassman]

Which begs the question - "who secured the Green?"

Sure as Hell wasn't the bozo's who were unable to fend off Big D and his "army of dozens..."

Maybe some soldiers that have since left Pittsburgh? Or if you're one that believes Romero's films are all connected, maybe the swat teams like the one that Roger and Peter ran out on?

[MinionZombie]

Or the soldiers who cleared the place out went on to clear out another place somewhere else - remember than Kaufman set up places all over the country, so no doubt the soldiers who did the heavy work would be required to go elsewhere, rather than just hang around - hence the need for new soldiers, so you get some of your survivors to fill in, hence the poor training and lack of real skill.

See, this is a great thing with Land, you can extrapolate the story from the plot of the film itself, it's not just handed to you on a platter like some other movie with a much thinner plot that perpetuates the switched-off stereotype of the genre.

Also of note, the main military presence (poorly trained at that) were on the other side of the river and on the very outskirts of the city, not within it, and no doubt spread thin. Weapons were limited within The Green, like when Cholo has to hand in his weapons. Cholo was a common man, and not one wanted in The Green, so I doubt they're going to want a bunch of armed, unshaven, dirty-haired gun-toters hanging around - thus reminding the residents of The Green that they aren't back to normal, but are in fact surrounded by zombies. Remember that The Green was about forgetting, ignoring the zombies, and getting back to normal life.

[Trin]

See, this is a great thing with Land, you can extrapolate the story from the plot of the film itself, it's not just handed to you on a platter like some other movie with a much thinner plot that perpetuates the switched-off stereotype of the genre.
I agree that the plot is many-layered and worthy of discussion and I'm right with you that that's a good thing.

However, in addition to the worthwhile discussion, a lot of this boils down to concocting elaborate theories to try to explain away the nonsense. Land shouldn't need that.

Maybe after the Green was secured Kaufman saw the military as a threat and gradually arrested all of them and threw them out in boxes with the trash. That's another perfectly reasonable explanation that is far-fetched, couched in assumption, and is grasping at straws to explain what we saw onscreen.

[SRP76]

Of course, there's no way they could have got Pittsburgh locked down, in the first place.

It isn't like you'd be trying to lock the things out. They will be starting off INSIDE the city, in the first place. You are starting out in an overrun state, and trying to not get killed, while building fences and whatnot (while fighting off hordes of dead from OUTSIDE, trying to get to you), with no supply lines, attacks from without and within at the exact same time, all the while pulling both manpower and material out of your ass, since nether exist, and there's no way to get them to the line.

In addition, you are dealing with the living trying to run your not-even-built-yet barricade, trying to get out of the city. That helps the dead outside get you, as well as helping the dead inside get you.

NOT POSSIBLE.

There should be no Fiddler's Green, in the first place.

[acealive1]

Of course, there's no way they could have got Pittsburgh locked down, in the first place.

It isn't like you'd be trying to lock the things out. They will be starting off INSIDE the city, in the first place. You are starting out in an overrun state, and trying to not get killed, while building fences and whatnot (while fighting off hordes of dead from OUTSIDE, trying to get to you), with no supply lines, attacks from without and within at the exact same time, all the while pulling both manpower and material out of your ass, since nether exist, and there's no way to get them to the line.

In addition, you are dealing with the living trying to run your not-even-built-yet barricade, trying to get out of the city. That helps the dead outside get you, as well as helping the dead inside get you.

NOT POSSIBLE.

There should be no Fiddler's Green, in the first place.



trying to secure pittsburgh is a task and isnt possible with all the cities adjacent to it. monroeville,oakmont,butler to name a few

[Mutineer]

This was a huge dissapointment for me

When I heard LAND of the Dead, I thought LAND

Day of the Dead gave me more a sense of a world overun with Zombies and all we ever saw was the little street in Florida

LAND should have been just hundreds upon hundreds of undead.


I'm opposite.

It drove me up the wall to see a lack of zombies outside Pittsburgh. This is the point in time where the dead have overrun EVERYTHING. Evry square inch of the "outside world" should have been flat-out crawling with flesheaters. Instead, Riley and crew are just chilling at the roadside, with a handful of them far off on a hillside. And I won't mention the lack of dead when Mouse gets dropped off.

And speaking of roadside, major aggravation point #2:

Dead Reckoning has to take "main roads", and just rolls all over the damn place, unhindered. YEAH, RIGHT! Every single street in America would be absolutely choked with abandoned husks of wrecked automobiles. The Reckoning wouldn't have made it ten feet out of Pittsburgh.

There are plenty of other things, but this isn't an essay....

[MinionZombie]

Maybe after the Green was secured Kaufman saw the military as a threat and gradually arrested all of them and threw them out in boxes with the trash. That's another perfectly reasonable explanation that is far-fetched, couched in assumption, and is grasping at straws to explain what we saw onscreen.

But that actually doesn't make sense, whereas mine does. :D

If he threw them out, they'd just make a plan to re-take the Green, they're the military guys after all. If they were locked up, they'd make a plan to escape, which would probably be easy enough for military folk being guarded by either no-one or poorly trained guards.

Whereas Kaufman moving from one place to another and sending his limited number of troops to the various places he has around the country does make sense. Once the initial job is done, they're needed elsewhere to do another "initial job".

As for extrapolating from the plot to theorise about the story, how is it different from what we do with the previous three films?

[7734]

more importantly...
how could riley and co. expect to get anywhere without refueling Dead Reckoning before leaving pittsburgh?

that rig couldn't get more than 4 miles to the gallon (or 1.7 km to the litre).

[Legion2213]

On further reflection, it's possible that real military and survivor types saw the fate of the Green very early on (no weapons, no real soldiers since Kaufman empowered "yes men" and a general sloppy attitude to defense, the threat of "revolution/trouble from the second class citizens etc).

It's a fair bet that they simply decided to take their chances alone or in small groups and moved on elsewhere...I wouldn't live in the Green if I had a choice, I'd rather go it alone.

[SRP76]

On further reflection, it's possible that real military and survivor types saw the fate of the Green very early on (no weapons, no real soldiers since Kaufman empowered "yes men" and a general sloppy attitude to defense, the threat of "revolution/trouble from the second class citizens etc).

It's a fair bet that they simply decided to take their chances alone or in small groups and moved on elsewhere...I wouldn't live in the Green if I had a choice, I'd rather go it alone.

Most definitely.

That's another thing I couldn't understand: how Kaufman even got into power.

In the beginning, all hell's breaking loose. It's dog-eat-dog. Some clown starts giving orders, and says, "well, you have to listen, because I'm rich".

I would have flung him headfirst into the nearest group of zombies. So would 99.9999% of all human beings.

[MinionZombie]

Most definitely.

That's another thing I couldn't understand: how Kaufman even got into power.

In the beginning, all hell's breaking loose. It's dog-eat-dog. Some clown starts giving orders, and says, "well, you have to listen, because I'm rich".

I would have flung him headfirst into the nearest group of zombies. So would 99.9999% of all human beings.
Don't think so, the point in GAR's humans is they're selfish and all about money/consumer items. They'd sell each other out for a buck, 99% would, but it's the 1% who survive.

Kaufman would have powerful friends in powerful places and plenty of cash to back up his requests. Even when money meant nothing in Dawn, people were still obsessed by it and snatched it up even though it had no worth anymore. But in Land, they've set up their own little economy, so once again it actually means something - therefore, people can be bought and paid to do a certain job.

[clanglee]

See, this is a great thing with Land, you can extrapolate the story from the plot of the film itself, it's not just handed to you on a platter like some other movie with a much thinner plot that perpetuates the switched-off stereotype of the genre.

.

The only extrapolation of the story going on is poor attempts to explain away the mistakes and holes in your beloved plot man. The plot wasn't handed to us because it was hardly there in the first place. ANY survivor should know how and where to shoot a zombie to kill it. Training, or lack thereof don't enter into it. All this argument continues to be is people pointing out the flaws in LOTD and people fighting tooth and nail to defend and justify those flaws. :bored: I'm tired.

[Trin]

But that actually doesn't make sense, whereas mine does. :D

If he threw them out, they'd just make a plan to re-take the Green, they're the military guys after all. If they were locked up, they'd make a plan to escape, which would probably be easy enough for military folk being guarded by either no-one or poorly trained guards.
I don't think you understood me. It was clear Cholo was helping to make Kaufman's enemies disappear one body at a time taking them out with the trash in boxes dripping blood - i.e. dead. It stands to reason those enemies would include anyone who stood up to him or posed a threat, as would any well-trained military personnel.


Whereas Kaufman moving from one place to another and sending his limited number of troops to the various places he has around the country does make sense. Once the initial job is done, they're needed elsewhere to do another "initial job".
And he sent them all? And he didn't call them up as soon as Dead Reckoning had rockets trained on him?

I'll admit that your theory is possible, but I still think mine makes more sense, and for the record I think they're both far fetched.


As for extrapolating from the plot to theorise about the story, how is it different from what we do with the previous three films?In the other stories we work from the starting position that the events make sense and the extrapolation is to fill in the gaps and get a better understanding. With Land the extrapolation is to try to bring sense to the chaos. The events cannot make sense without the extrapolation. It's very different.

[MinionZombie]

I could equally say the haters are fighting tooth and nail to diss the theories/extrapolations of the lovers, but it'd be an equally odd statement.

[clanglee]

But a good movie shouldn't need defending. Theorizing and explaining the plot holes should not be neccissary. All movies have some plot holes. But the mark of a GOOD movie is everyone looking past them, or not even noticing them. This movie is polarizing as hell. Both sides are vocal as hell too. That's the one good thing about the movie is the great arguments it starts. But before you get all excited about that as a bonus, the arguments are all about stupid insipid parts of the movie that MOST people noticed. Not about statements and ideas.

[MinionZombie]

That still makes no sense.

Dj is constantly defending Yawn04, so does that make it a sh*t film (well, to me it's shiite, but to him it's awesome).

It's an arbitrary argument because it's all opinion. I, along with other lovers-of-Land, am putting out the common sense story theories...just like everybody else does with the other 3 films, it's no different.

[clanglee]

Not as much argument on the other 3 films. Better constructed movies. It is rare in the other 3 movies to make up scenarios that are nowhere in the movie to explain away some defect in the movie. But you're right. It's all opinion. I guess I can't do anything about other people's bad taste. :D ;)

[Trin]

Not as much argument on the other 3 films. Better constructed movies. It is rare in the other 3 movies to make up scenarios that are nowhere in the movie to explain away some defect in the movie. But you're right. It's all opinion. I guess I can't do anything about other people's bad taste. :D ;)Well said.

Common sense theories - wow. I'm glad you enjoyed the movie. More power to you.

[SRP76]

Don't think so, the point in GAR's humans is they're selfish and all about money/consumer items. They'd sell each other out for a buck, 99% would, but it's the 1% who survive.

Kaufman would have powerful friends in powerful places and plenty of cash to back up his requests. Even when money meant nothing in Dawn, people were still obsessed by it and snatched it up even though it had no worth anymore. But in Land, they've set up their own little economy, so once again it actually means something - therefore, people can be bought and paid to do a certain job.

The money is useless. Nobody will listen to someone with money. People may be obsessed with consumer items, but in a crisis like this, they can simply take what they want, for free. What in the world would they bother with money for?!

The looters in the L.A. riots certainly didn't hang around in a checkout line, or worry about "purchasing power". Everything is simply there for the taking; they aren't going to give a crap about some fool that happens to be "rich". They can get all he has, by force.

[Legion2213]

The money is useless. Nobody will listen to someone with money. People may be obsessed with consumer items, but in a crisis like this, they can simply take what they want, for free. What in the world would they bother with money for?!

The looters in the L.A. riots certainly didn't hang around in a checkout line, or worry about "purchasing power". Everything is simply there for the taking; they aren't going to give a crap about some fool that happens to be "rich". They can get all he has, by force.

Or put it another way...Zombies are eating their way through your neighbourhood...who do you follow/listen to?

The rich guy who has friends in wall street, doesn't have the first clue about survival, tactics or fighting...or the British Para/US Marine who has fought in and lived through a dozen conflicts...

I know who's opinion/advice I am going to listen to...I know who I am going to team up with as well.

[DVW5150]

The shot of the train that had crashed through the bridge wall was very effective. I wonder how the people fared on that train every time I see it.
The world itself was a character .
Land is (I think) real quality .