Contains Spoilers! TWD 5x03 "Four Walls And A Roof" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN* [Archive]

MinionZombie

26-Oct-2014, 10:12 AM

Please keep all talk of episode 5x03 "Four Walls And A Roof" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

“Rick and the group find themselves pitted against some very nasty people, but our group might just have a plan to gain the upper hand.”

Directed by: Jeffrey F. January, Written by: Angela Kang & Corey Reed.

http://c534909.r9.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Walking-Dead-503-02.jpg

MoonSylver

26-Oct-2014, 11:14 PM

Hurm. Interesting title & blurb. Should be fun to see what tonight brings! :hyper:

AcesandEights

27-Oct-2014, 01:50 AM

Well, that escalated quickly.

sandrock74

27-Oct-2014, 02:13 AM

I love it when the bad guys are quickly (and harshly) dealt with!

facestabber

27-Oct-2014, 02:14 AM

Abraham is a tough guy but there is no way I leave Rick Grimes side. Dude is a stone cold badass yet, as Bob alluded, is a good man.

I'm glad Gareth begged first. And Ricks stare down eye fuck of Gareth the entire time in the church was epic and gave me the chills. Red handled machete for the win!!!!!!!!! Hey Gareth, you FUCKED with the wrong people.

RIP Bob. I liked the character, sad to see him go

MoonSylver

27-Oct-2014, 02:15 AM

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8464/8113460504_c0b3ea6f1a_b.jpg

Promise kept. :D

Wyldwraith

27-Oct-2014, 02:27 AM

Such a rare thing,
When characters do *exactly* what YOU would do. There's a certain quasi-orgasmic quality when characters are freed from writer-stupidity and allowed to behave in a manner that from a viewer's-eye view you can just viscerally react with a FUCK YEA!

Really liked this episode, because it correctly "read" Gareth. Ie: The guy could plan, intricately, but he was only a one to two-steps-ahead chess player. Add to that he was accustomed to being the predator and having surprise on his side. It gave him a blindspot where it came to defense, and the script did a beautiful job of playing that out.

Now from a purely atavistic point of view, I nearly wept tears of joy when Gareth was like "You could've shot us when you came in. There has to be a reason you didn't." And Rick responds "Yea, we didn't want to waste the bullets...and I made you a promise." Seldom have I seen a remorseless massacre portrayed on television that elicited such emotional satisfaction and sense of moral rightness. You got the sense that there was a sense of Release on the part of Team Rick's members. I mean they obviously ENJOYED it on some level....now whether or not Team Rick would be ready to ADMIT they enjoyed it is arguable, more likely they'd cloak their savagery under the mantle of Necessity...and maybe I'd go so far as to say Team Rick might currently even BELIEVE that...but the level of overkill demonstrated Rick and his people were getting SOMETHING out of it besides simply removing antagonists dogging their trail threatening their lives.

The taking of revenge for a terrible wrong done one is so quintessentially HUMAN. Forgiveness is nice, in our modern world of legal checks and balances...but retribution has been a FAR more EFFECTIVE mechanism of social re-balancing for so very much longer than Law has. By comparison to venerable gray-haired Retribution, Law is still a squalling babe.

All in all quite satisfying. No complaints here.

Edit: OK, ONE complaint. Abraham is STILL escalating in Prickdom...and his whole demand for Glenn and Maggie in exchange for not just abandoning them all there at that moment just made me feel like everyone would be better off if Rick had just suddenly shot Abraham in the back of the head.

facestabber

27-Oct-2014, 02:37 AM

Hey Wylde you're right about satisfying. It was savage. Rick even stole a line from The Gov about not wasting bullets. Pleasure or not Team Rick swung with the vengeance of a father whose family member was mutilated. It was absolutely right, beautiful and felt friggin good. WAR team Rick!!!!!

Moon Knight

27-Oct-2014, 03:39 AM

Very satisfying episode. Intense and brilliant. Didn't think they would have killed off The Hunters so quickly but there you have it. Loving the pacing. Will have more to say later. RICK!

MinionZombie

27-Oct-2014, 12:46 PM

It was probably a stretch to think they'd have drawn Gareth & Co out until mid-season, so I was wrong on that aspect, haha!

Wow - didn't expect them to be snuffed out so quickly ... but I did expect the harshness as it was in the comics. Interesting to see the reactions of Glenn & Maggie, witnessing such brutality. Sasha's face afterwards, having committed such a vicious attack, said it all. There was vengeance, there was release, but they've also perpetrated an act of abject horror. Rick handled it easier as he'd already had the 'morning after' stunned face look in 4x16 after he ripped out the guy's throat with his bare teeth.

It's good that they're not wasting too much time dragging out mini mysteries along the way - e.g. Father Gabriel's secret being cleared up at the start of this episode - you'd otherwise get to the point that the small reveal wouldn't be enough pay off if you leave it longer, so it's great to see Gimple & Co's grasp of pacing continuing to provide us with strong narrative drive and complexity. :cool:

This episode had excellent tension - I was literally on the edge of my seat with my fingers all jumbled together tightly - and it was an excellent episode for Bob & Sasha. Lawrence Gilliard Jr in particular really got a lot of opportunity to shine in this episode. I loved his interactions with Sasha in this one, his humour in the face of certain death (in such messed up circumstances), and his "TAINTED MEAT!!!" flip-out at the beginning.

Good sense of mis-direction too - the stuff about the walkers at that window, and it cracking, just after Rick & Co had headed out. It was awesome when they'd out-played Gareth & Co and snuck in behind them and took them down efficiently.

Thinking back to the Season 5 Comic-Con trailer, the skills of their editors still amaze me. It looked like Gareth had, somehow, joined up with Team Rick for some sort of purpose - but as we've seen, these first three episodes have been entirely different.

Next week's episode is blates gonna be a Governor-style episode all about Beth, which I'm very much looking forward to. I'd imagine that 5x05 will also continue that story and then tie back in to the end of this episode (5x03) by the end of 5x05 ... that's my pacing theory at least. Has something happened to Carol? Has Daryl found Beth? Why does he have that look on his face? I can't wait for next week's episode!!! :hyper:

Moon Knight

27-Oct-2014, 03:21 PM

Please, not two episodes dedicated to only Beth. Just not a big fan of hers. I can deal with The Governor episodes cause he was really interesting. I'd rather Beth been offed last season honestly.

Wyldwraith

27-Oct-2014, 04:17 PM

Bit of logic,
At the end of the episode Daryl's telling SOMEONE to "Come out"...and since Beth is still in the psychos hospital apparently, one could surmise he might be talking to Carol...or Daryl could've picked up someone new. Problem with that is the group doesn't seem very pro-strangers at the moment...so perhaps it's Morgan with Daryl?

Got nothing to back this up, but my gut tells me either a) Whoever Daryl is with is known to one or more members of the group, or b) Whoever it is is so obviously a non-threat that Daryl's good-ole-boy code couldn't let him leave said person out there alone. I lean towards Option A, because Daryl has had a LOT of whatever altruism he might've ever possessed burned out of him.

That said, if it isn't Carol it raises the question where is she. I absolutely 1000% do NOT believe they'd kill Carol off-camera at this point and then re-tell it in some sort of flashback. Carol might be casing the hospital where Beth is...don't know. Although I'll echo Moon in saying I REALLY don't want 2 episodes sucked up by almost entirely Beth-focused content. Don't dislike Beth or anything, just getting really burned out on ping-pong episodes again...just been too much of that last Season, and I for one feel the show needs a break from constant split-perspective content. 3 relatively unified episodes hasn't been enough for me to lose the burnout on split-party content yet. Which incidentally, is why I'm so irritated by Abraham's success in pulling Glenn & Maggie away from Team Rick. It was a dick move on his part...and his little note to Rick on the map doesn't soften/mollify my view of Abraham at all. Many assholes are quite genial right after getting everything they want. He can talk about the group deserving to be around for the world's recovery (they do, but that isn't the point), but being willing to walk off and ditch them all at a moment's notice, disregarding his considerable obligation to Carol...one of the people he had zero problems abandoning without a thought.

Yes, there are times I'm a "Ends justify the means" kind of guy, but I really detest people/characters who can easily leave major debts unpaid in favor of doing what they want to do. Loyalty is big with me, and Abraham is just a dick on some many levels.

MinionZombie

27-Oct-2014, 05:55 PM

On the subject of Abraham - he's a very focused dude. He's got his mission set firmly in his sights and that's all there is to him first and foremost ... he's set on achieving his goal in a big bad way. It's a shame that Glenn, Maggie, and Tara opted-in to the mission so readily, although for Tara I suppose it'd be far, far easier a decision to make - particularly with her history with Team Rick, even if she was forgiven with a fist bump from the man himself. :D

However, after the events in the church, I wonder if Glenn and Maggie were somewhat spurred on to leave, horrified as they were by the actions of Rick and Sasha and, admittedly, Abraham. Hmmm...

Speaking of which, that scene is interesting in the reactions it has so far brought about - different people taking away different things - Gareth & Co absolutely had to go, no ifs, buts, or coconuts, they 100% needed to be snuffed out from the world to save someone else down the line ... and while it was an immensely satisfying scene as a TWD viewer, the main thing I took from the scene was the cost to the souls of those involved (just look at Sasha's face). What about you folks, what was the main thing you took from that scene?

Another question strikes me - had they been left alive, do you think Gareth and his merry band of cannibals would have stuck to their (Gareth's) word of leaving Team Rick alone?

On who's with Morgan ... I'm not convinced it'll be Morgan. For one thing Daryl's never met him, but also (in a subtle detail in 5x01) when Morgan passed the "No Sanctuary" sign there was foliage grown over it unlike when Rick changed the sign. So some time has passed ... and it seems that the markings were left by Gareth & Co (his line about marking their path ... but marking it back to what, now that Terminus was a burning crater) ... so what will happen with Morgan ... ooh, the mystery! It could be Beth, but she could be all messed up in the head somehow ... or probably someone linked to the group that has Beth, more likely ... there's many ways to read that scene. Daryl's definitely seen something and knows something - and whatever that is, it can't be cheery - but who knows?! Yes ... perhaps Carol stayed behind to watch the place and reconnoiter the area.

TWD 5x03 Memes:
http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/machete-edition-walking-dead-5x03-memes.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LOnlC9lGX-0/VE6Ac2ydUDI/AAAAAAAADSc/Mh5R-KUGB-Q/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Meme_Maggie_Crazy_Girlfriend_Spoi l_TWD_Corrected_Them_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GglW0MNBrc4/VE6AeZJ7WMI/AAAAAAAADSo/5AzHvf8s0GU/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x03_Bob_Dead_Mans_ Opinion_Nightmares_End_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0cowLhtKIy0/VE6Agxc0e5I/AAAAAAAADS0/vW6DXwzGjxk/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x03_Father_Gabriel _Lock_Doors_Up_Late_Watching_Comic_Book_Men_DeadSh ed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2ZdNl7QmlV0/VE6Aj41NKhI/AAAAAAAADS8/_GpuObchMco/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x03_Gareth_Rick_Fo rgive_Me_Confession_Machete_DeadShed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qFrYJe7ZLEg/VE6AeWjK_0I/AAAAAAAADSk/UqMySfr6_nM/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x03_Bob_Tainted_Me at_Scream_DeadShed.jpg

Moon Knight

27-Oct-2014, 06:24 PM

I agree 100% with Wyld on this one. Splitting the group yet again is very frustrating. Also, I'm pretty sure it's Beth that Daryl has. Time seems to play a factor in TWD and I'm betting we see what Daryl and company were up to during the last couple days of Team Rick slaughterhouse. Or it can just be Morales, who knows lol

Kidding on the last one of course.

AcesandEights

27-Oct-2014, 06:26 PM

On who's with Morgan ... I'm not convinced it'll be Morgan.

Quite existential, MZ. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/monocle.gif

facestabber

27-Oct-2014, 07:40 PM

Moon Knight

27-Oct-2014, 10:53 PM

Personally, I wouldnt believe it niether. After all they been through they just can't go back to normal everyday life. There's no way. Rick said it best during his conversation with Bob on the way to the food drive.

AcesandEights

28-Oct-2014, 12:10 AM

Mission oriented must be his coping method to this world.

Good way of looking at Abraham's motivation, I think.

zombieparanoia

28-Oct-2014, 08:09 AM

Abraham is a dumb man. Mission oriented must be his coping method to this world. Regardless I wonder if Rick believes the BS Abraham and Eugene are spewing? Rick agreed to go to DC but was it just to stay together. It's not like they had a country club where they were at. When survival is the only day to day goal, do people grasp at any sign of hope? Rick heard Jenners speech at the CDC. I don't think Rick believes the cure. What say you?

This is a very good point. Rick and the group have already been at the CDC where they were told straight up by the only man left on the inside, nobody anywhere has any idea of how to cure this. Why would they believe the poorly constructed story of eugenes?

MinionZombie

28-Oct-2014, 11:06 AM

Quite existential, MZ. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/monocle.gif

:lol::lol::lol:

D'oh! Although as typo's go, it's not half bad ... will Morgan be with Morgan when Morgan arrives? :sneaky:

Abraham is a dumb man. Mission oriented must be his coping method to this world. Regardless I wonder if Rick believes the BS Abraham and Eugene are spewing? Rick agreed to go to DC but was it just to stay together. It's not like they had a country club where they were at. When survival is the only day to day goal, do people grasp at any sign of hope? Rick heard Jenners speech at the CDC. I don't think Rick believes the cure. What say you?

There's certainly an element of that, I think - good point - I'll also point out that even though they're friends with Team Rick, they've only known them for a matter of days. Team Rick Proper have known each other for nigh-on two years, there's a huge difference there. Abraham, Rosita, and Eugene have been together as a little unit for a very long time, they've been constantly pursuing their goal, so even though Carol saved their lives, she saved all of their lives - the bulk of the people she saved was Team Rick, and she also had no idea Abraham/Rosita/Eugene/Tara were with them ... so the loyalty issue becomes less firm.

Whether we believe Eugene or not, Abraham and Rosita absolutely do - and their mission is certainly an extremely important one that, if it can work, supercedes everything (as hard-skinned as that may be). We'll see how far they get...

Comic-Con Trailer observation relating to Abraham & Co:

They mustn't get too far because I recognised that white short bus from the trailer:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hBHZu_Xl66U/U9PVCmzSxOI/AAAAAAAADKA/XCVVii-E-DU/s1600/The+Walking+Dead+Season+5+Comic+Con+Trailer+029.jp g

This is a very good point. Rick and the group have already been at the CDC where they were told straight up by the only man left on the inside, nobody anywhere has any idea of how to cure this. Why would they believe the poorly constructed story of eugenes?

To be fair that was also at the very start of the apocalypse. Their communications were unreliable, they don't know if other government installations were more successful both in terms of survival and research. Jenner was also not a brilliant scientist - his wife was, but she died - he was good, but was struggling with figuring it out. Remember his line about how great a loss to mankind the death of his wife was ... whether she could have figured it out or not is something we'll never know, but could there be others like her out there doing just peachy?

However, yes, if I was Rick I'd be extremely sceptical too and more concerned with day-to-day survival. Had Team Rick all been together then they'd all have gone, but they were down three people (plus a fourth in Beth), and this family is the most important thing to Rick. For him that comes first.

It's a good line in the sand between Rick and Abraham, two alpha male leaders in conflict.

facestabber

28-Oct-2014, 02:51 PM

Minion I agree Jenners speech was early on. Ive always believed his praise of his wife was rooted more in a mourning husband. Not saying she wasnt special, but I dont think Jenner is a moron. He had to be capable enough. Now I never liked his speech about fossil fuels and the gov't running out of power etc. But that was his reason for all gov't installations failing and the French being the last to fall. I believe he did say the French were close to solution but how that gets to the US is beyond me. IMO one of the first things the gov't would do would be to send an overwhelming miitary force to nuclear power plants and bogart all its power to critical installations.

Good point on Abraham's exposure to Team Rick. He has only known him for a matter of days so it's understandable that he would rather stay on his belief. Im not happy about Maggie and Glen bailing. It was obvious by the looks on their faces at the Gareth slaughter that they are disturbed at the brutality Team Rick had to dish out. With no communications the reality of ever seeing their family again is slim to none. Despair of the world may have got the best of them and they need to cling to hope of a cure. I understand the hope factor but seperating is just not good mojo. Is Eugene any safer on the road in a smaller group or with a group of certified survivors/badasses?

Ofcourse I will just admit I love everything Maggie and need her alive:)

sandrock74

28-Oct-2014, 03:29 PM

I see what Abraham's true plan was; he took all the hotties with him on the short bus. :p

MoonSylver

28-Oct-2014, 04:45 PM

I see what Abraham's true plan was; he took all the hotties with him on the short bus. :p

:lol:

Maybe not so dumb after all. Mullet & Flattop FTW. :D

MinionZombie

28-Oct-2014, 05:41 PM

:lol:

Maybe not so dumb after all. Mullet & Flattop FTW. :D

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QZnlb96LZ-A/UzBarniLXQI/AAAAAAAAC0A/rbEjHFVu7oI/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_4_Meme_Eugene_Tara_Serious ly_Hot_I_Like_Girls_Oh_Hell_Yeah_Score_4x15_DeadSh ed.jpg

:D

DayoftheZ

28-Oct-2014, 08:25 PM

Another great episode, its really is going to be difficult to pick out a favorite from this series.

I was delighted to see the human on human violence allowed to shine here because in previous series they have held off slightly (aside from the claimed group). This wasn't overly graphic and advanced the story so it needs to be shown and it packed a major punch or machete if you will. It was used well on Gareths group and it is great that Joe and Gareth both got iconic deaths because they were great characters.

I know a few have spoken negatively of Abe but I think he is a great character and is good muscle / backup to Rick with Daryl out of the way. Gabriel was also a good addition in my mind, he is obviously messed up but he seems harmless enough and its nice to see a different type of character.

Further to my Tyresse issues, there seemed to be a few hints that he may snap in this episode so I have hope there.

Neil

28-Oct-2014, 10:49 PM

Shame Bob's bite was so clearly hinted at last episode. Would have been better if it had come as a proper surprise.

Also shame them eating infected meat came to nout too. Thought they might go out in a suicidal blaze after they started getting ill!

Buzzbomb

28-Oct-2014, 11:16 PM

Another good 'un....

The execution of Gareth & co, I think showed how far Rick has deteriorated. They needed to be killed, but the manner in which it was done, I think killed a bit more of Rick's humanity.

(That said, I've also thought they could have just tied them up, & put them in a room with Bob and just waited... that would have been a bit of poetic justice, giving 'Bob' ('Buub') some revenge... eating those who eat him... and as a bonus none of the 'living' would have had to kill the 'living'... Or perhaps that's the kind of sick thing the Governor would have done...)

It would have been interesting too, to see if Gareth & co would have turned having eaten cooked "tainted meat". If cooking it didn't lead to zombification, then it would open up a new & plentiful source of food.

Also loved the shot of Maggie briefly picking up a bible or hymn book/putting it down... combined with later the retort to Gabriel's "This is the house of the Lord"... with the otherwise unfathomable episode title.

A bit worried about Morgan... if he follows the signs Gareth made... he'll either wind up at the Elementary School chock-full of walkers & the 'nearly' broken glass window... or back at Terminus where the dude being cut up at the slaughterhouse in EP.1 looked quite a bit like Rick.

Carol had the right idea in EP.2 to get the hell out. Eugene & Abraham are on a wild goose chase... I know weapons research is on a 'need to know' basis, so the CDC may have been out of the loop, but Abraham... nah. I bet he couldn't tie his own shoelaces.

Good to see Glenn stand up to Rick. Eugene etc did help him reunite with Maggie, so I can understand him leaving Rick & co. Sometimes any plan, however shite, is better than no plan....

Bob was tremendously positive till the end, so on a positive note if Tyresse 'had' killed the chap in the shed (Martin?) then Michonne wouldn't have got her sword back.

A bit out on the limb, but I reckon Darryl brought back snow white and seven dwarfs... :clown:

Publius

29-Oct-2014, 02:50 AM

This is a very good point. Rick and the group have already been at the CDC where they were told straight up by the only man left on the inside, nobody anywhere has any idea of how to cure this. Why would they believe the poorly constructed story of eugenes?
The way I saw it, Jenner was approaching the problem from a totally different angle from Eugene. Jenner was CDC, and his mindframe is about stopping the spread of the disease and curing the infected. His conclusion is there's no hope, everyone's already infected. Eugene is coming from a biological warfare perspective: taking for granted that there's no way to cure the disease, he realizes the next best hope is to engineer a biological weapon that's targeted to kill the reanimated. I still think Eugene's full of crap, but it's plausible that they would not have discounted Eugene's theory immediately just because of what Rick heard from Jenner.

Andy

29-Oct-2014, 08:41 AM

The way I saw it, Jenner was approaching the problem from a totally different angle from Eugene. Jenner was CDC, and his mindframe is about stopping the spread of the disease and curing the infected. His conclusion is there's no hope, everyone's already infected. Eugene is coming from a biological warfare perspective: taking for granted that there's no way to cure the disease, he realizes the next best hope is to engineer a biological weapon that's targeted to kill the reanimated. I still think Eugene's full of crap, but it's plausible that they would not have discounted Eugene's theory immediately just because of what Rick heard from Jenner.

The only flaw in your logic is if everybody is infected and eugene engineers a biological weapon to target the infection.. surely it will kill everyone living and undead?

COMIC SPOILER!!

Not that it matters anyway because we all know Eugene's full of shit, It's just when and how they will reveal it on TV that I'm looking for too! :D

Publius

29-Oct-2014, 09:42 AM

The only flaw in your logic is if everybody is infected and eugene engineers a biological weapon to target the infection.. surely it will kill everyone living and undead?
Obviously his countervirus or whatever would have to distinguish between the passive infection in the living and the active infection in the undead. The virus presumably interacts with the body's cells in different ways when the body is living versus dead. Eugene would have to think he can design a counter-virus that can target only the reanimated stage of the virus.

MinionZombie

29-Oct-2014, 10:18 AM

A bit worried about Morgan... if he follows the signs Gareth made... he'll either wind up at the Elementary School chock-full of walkers & the 'nearly' broken glass window... or back at Terminus where the dude being cut up at the slaughterhouse in EP.1 looked quite a bit like Rick.

Eh? :confused:

The guy getting hacked up on the slab in episode one - while Rick & Co were hanging their heads over the blood trough - was Gareth's brother (killed in 4x16 during the confrontation with Rick).

I'm pretty sure Morgan following those signs was after Team Rick walked on by (there's more foliage grown over the sign when Morgan passes through, than when Rick passes through).

Andy

29-Oct-2014, 10:27 AM

Obviously his countervirus or whatever would have to distinguish between the passive infection in the living and the active infection in the undead. The virus presumably interacts with the body's cells in different ways when the body is living versus dead. Eugene would have to think he can design a counter-virus that can target only the reanimated stage of the virus.

Presuming Eugene knows that the living are infected already..

shootemindehead

29-Oct-2014, 10:42 AM

Another decent ep.

Kind of sorry to see Gareth and the wankers go though. He was a really effective villain. Probably the best in the show so far. I was sort hoping that they would be stalking Rick'n'Co for a few more episodes as they...ahem..."make their way to Washington".

Next week is going to be fresh, seeing as the cannibals arc is done. So, this years series could go anywhere.

Neil

29-Oct-2014, 12:50 PM

Another decent ep.

Kind of sorry to see Gareth and the wankers go though. He was a really effective villain. Probably the best in the show so far. I was sort hoping that they would be stalking Rick'n'Co for a few more episodes as they...ahem..."make their way to Washington".
I was hoping after eating infected meat, and spotting a few tell-tale signs, they realised they only had a couple of days to live, and decided to go all jihad on Rick's gang!

facestabber

29-Oct-2014, 03:52 PM

Someone clear this up. Was Eugene proposing that his 'cure' would target the Walkers or just the living? Or Both? A cure for the living to not turn upon death could be a plausible idea to a degree. Cure what is left then go on a killing spree of Walkers or just wait for them to decay into oblivion.

Targeting the Walkers would essentially be a large scale chemical weapon that would basically re-kill the already dead. I would say even in this made up world it would be beyond belief that the cure would reverse the Walkers to live folks.

Not that hope is bad, and its ok to try, but the probability at this stage IMO makes the cure idea flawed. Granted we have a small window of a handfull of counties in Georgia to gage a world view. But the view doesnt look good. Jenner confirmed the virus crossed the ocean. Walkers seem to far excede the numbers of the living. Communications dont exist(cell phones/land lines for us older folks:). There is probably minimal if any gov't or infrastructure left. So even if a cure is discovered, how in the hell would/could it be delivered? Washington can't advertise or sell the idea.

At minimum the only comeback of the living that Abraham speaks of would be limited to a small society of living people that have been cured of the virus which takes over an Island and starts over. The new world may need a Rick Grimes but it would take generations before the comeback was in full force.

I may go along with Abraham but only because he's a good fighter, seems trustworthy etc but specifically because what the hell else am I going to do?

AcesandEights

29-Oct-2014, 04:18 PM

My general feeling about the TV plot line for Abraham, Eugene & the quest for DC is:

Rick will go along with it, to keep the group together, but never have any faith in it. He very well may not go out of his way to say so, but in the end it will keep a strong group together and get them to some new ground, while keeping their eyes open for options.

MinionZombie

29-Oct-2014, 05:15 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/akerjlg/rhodes.gif

I don't want them to do anything but drop over!

...

I'd have thought Eugene's brilliant idea is probably for some sort of chemical weapon that targets the walkers specifically. There has to be some kind of difference between the living and the dead, even though the living are infected. If you die of natural causes you resurrect, but you can live your life without turning into a zombie (if you remain safe) ... however if you get bitten then it's game over within 48 hours ... so that there is a key difference, and there must be something in that where there's a distinction to be made - and targetted - and then it'd be dispersed in the atmosphere.

I'd imagine the walkers would then do as Rhodes dreamed of and just drop over. You'd clear an area and spread out accordingly ... now, of course, walkers aren't going to abide by an invisible line, you'll get 'bleed over' across the boundaries of the chemical's effectiveness, but you could clear entire areas quickly where walker populations are high. You'd have to do that on a somewhat rogue basis making your way through America, no doubt with the aim to reach certain government facilities to see if anyone's still alive - if they are then you can team up and start re-establishing a network, and you go from there.

That's what I'd imagine the thinking would be ... whether it'll actually happen or not is an entirely different thing.

I've read the comics, so I know stuff ... and thaaangs. :shifty:

shootemindehead

29-Oct-2014, 05:32 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/akerjlg/rhodes.gif

https://www.avforums.com/styles/avf/editorial/products/8e67881fd917390f7cbafdb1656d7b5c_8233.jpg

"Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"!

I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human."

MinionZombie

29-Oct-2014, 06:32 PM

https://www.avforums.com/styles/avf/editorial/products/8e67881fd917390f7cbafdb1656d7b5c_8233.jpg

"Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"!

I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human."

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130728045135/legendsofthemultiuniverse/images/2/22/CaptainRhodes.jpg

Keep talkin' Frankenstein ... I'm listenin'

:lol:

Andy

29-Oct-2014, 06:39 PM

Trin

29-Oct-2014, 09:07 PM

Hey all! I'm all caught up! Fun season so far!

5x03 was (finally) an episode that felt right. Team Rick were on the offensive and (as many have said) did what the viewers would want done. It was a stand up and cheer moment when the headshots popped those two jerks threatening to kill everyone in the office. And Gareth shot and begging was icing on the cake. Rick finishing him was (again, finally) a very satisfying moment that resonated with me.

I really like that they didn't drag out the plotline for tons of episodes. That has been such a problem in the past. This time it was detailed and full of characters so it felt rich. It was slow enough to settle into but not so long I felt like they wasted tons of screen time. It was very good pacing across the 3 episodes.

I'm not very happy with the Abraham/Eugene "let's rush to Washington" plotline. Abraham's goal is to get Eugene to Washington. Fine. I think that's a good goal. So he should choose the best possible course of action to see that done. I understand his middle of the night desire to perform an "immediate extraction" of Eugene. That made sense given the Gareth threat. But with the Gareth threat neutralized common sense would dictate that there's no hurry and his mission would have a greater chance of success with Team Rick accompanying him, especially if they find Carol and Daryl. Take a few days and resupply, secure better transport, and let Team Rick regroup.

From the Team Rick perspective, I have no problem following Abraham to Washington. There is really nothing better for them to be doing. But I'm not going to take a lot of risks doing it and I'm not going to leave people behind just for sake of expediency. Eugene hasn't given us any reason to believe he can actually cure anything. He's just a goofy bastard with a semi-plausible theory. Washington has waited 2 years and counting for Eugene to arrive. It can wait as long as necessary.

If Eugene is really the best hope for humanity then they should take every step in the most planned and methodical way possible. Not go driving off in a broken down schoolbus with a fraction of the available resources.

It's good to be back. *waves at everyone*

MoonSylver

29-Oct-2014, 09:44 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/akerjlg/rhodes.gif

I don't want them to do anything but drop over!

https://www.avforums.com/styles/avf/editorial/products/8e67881fd917390f7cbafdb1656d7b5c_8233.jpg

"Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"!

I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human."

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130728045135/legendsofthemultiuniverse/images/2/22/CaptainRhodes.jpg

Keep talkin' Frankenstein ... I'm listenin'

:lol:

http://videoportjones.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/terry-alexander-smiling.jpg

"Sheet! You two be crackin' me up, mon." :D

BTW, that GIF of Rhodes looks like either A) He's playing the worlds angriest game of "Pull My Finger" or B) A guy yelling at kids to get off his lawn. :lol:

Publius

29-Oct-2014, 10:19 PM

Again, your assuming that Eugene knows the living are already infected..
I don't think it'd take a huge logical leap. It should be clear by now that everyone who dies reanimates, not just those who are bitten. The simplest assumption is that transmission of the virus from a walker (e.g. through bites or scratches) is unnecessary to cause reanimation because the virus is already present in the living.

They definitely should be asking Eugene more questions, though. He's making a pretty remarkable claim, and I'd want to see how well he can back it up before taking big risks to help him.

From the Team Rick perspective, I have no problem following Abraham to Washington. There is really nothing better for them to be doing. But I'm not going to take a lot of risks doing it and I'm not going to leave people behind just for sake of expediency. Eugene hasn't given us any reason to believe he can actually cure anything. He's just a goofy bastard with a semi-plausible theory. Washington has waited 2 years and counting for Eugene to arrive. It can wait as long as necessary.
I would have better things to do. My reasoning would go like this:

Georgia: approximate population density 175 people per square mile, 75% urban, 40% gun owners
Washington, DC metro area: approximate population density 1,000 people per square mile, <30% gun owners
Alabama: approximate population density 95 people per square mile, 60% urban, 50% gun owners
Mississippi: approximate population density 65 people per square mile, 50% urban, 55% gun owners

Fewer pre-crisis people, fewer walkers. More pre-crisis people, more walkers. Things are most likely to be stable in areas with a low population density, low percentage of urban population (which will generate massive swarms roaming the countryside), and high percentage of gun ownership. Unless Eugene has a really good explanation for why he thinks he can his idea will work and why he thinks there's still anyone in DC who can implement it, my motto is "go west, young man!"

Buzzbomb

30-Oct-2014, 12:05 AM

Eh? :confused:

The guy getting hacked up on the slab in episode one - while Rick & Co were hanging their heads over the blood trough - was Gareth's brother (killed in 4x16 during the confrontation with Rick).

Your right - it was Alex & he had a head shot, so no re-animation. I thought he looked a bit like Rick though...

- - - Updated - - -

I'd have thought Eugene's brilliant idea is probably for some sort of chemical weapon that targets the walkers specifically.

I've wondered whether the chemical weapon could either just confuse them, so they couldn't tell the living from the dead, or turn them into veggies... in the first instance, they'd largely eliminate themselves.

But then I know nothing & I haven't read the comics :)

Trin

30-Oct-2014, 06:17 AM

@Publius... I agree with your analysis. I still think if I were in their position I'd entertain the Abraham/Eugene plan given the potential to end the threat world-wide. But I'd pursue it with your stance in mind. Running off ill-prepared to Washington is silly for the exact reasons you mention.

First, I'd want Eugene to instill some confidence in the group that he has a clue. That means he needs to sit his ass down and explain in detail (with a full FAQ document) EXACTLY what he plans to do and how he thinks he can do it. I honestly don't care if it takes weeks. It's critical for the group to believe in his solution.

Assuming some buy-in to Eugene's solution, the group needs to plan how to most safely succeed. Assuming it is Washington or bust, they need to plan the trip. They need to treat Eugene like precious cargo. You don't drive Eugene around in an old bus. They need to move deliberately and methodically. They need contingencies. That might mean going west for a bit to scavenge military vehicles, guns, ammo, gas, etc. where populations are lighter.

Given the size of Team Rick I'd have Eugene travelling a day behind an advance group that is setting up safe areas ahead of his arrival. Communicate via radio and have fallback safe-houses. Collect guns and ammo and vehicles and only advance if you have a solid base of supplies with good recon of what's ahead. If the road ahead looks dangerous.... fall back and reassess.

I'd expect Abraham to do more to assure the success of his mission than he's doing. Especially with Eugene's brainpower backing him up. They seem to be a bit cavalier about driving across the post-apocalyptic countryside toward a heavily populated area with humanity's sole hope.

I agree it is riskier than heading to a remotely populated area and just setting up shop. I just think that the risk (well-managed) would be worth it. Even if there is no "cure" to be developed in Washington, the possibility of there being infrastructure and safe areas around Washington is very plausible. If Abraham or Eugene can find them and have credentials to get you in... that's pretty valuable. And they could potentially determine that from miles out via radio.

Oh, and just for the record, even though I have NOT read the comics or comic spoilers... my prediction is that there is a 0.1% chance that Eugene has a clue. In my plan they'd fail at Step 1 when Eugene cannot instill any confidence. :D

zombieparanoia

30-Oct-2014, 08:14 AM

Ok, I liked the way they took Bob out, he had been the sole survivor of several previous groups and thought he was "cursed" sort of then he finds sasha, gets a bit of happiness and goes out in his sleep. The cannibals eating his leg aside I thought it was not a bad way to go in the post rise world, get a bit of your faith in humanity restored before you die.

I thought how they dealt with Gareth and friends was good, showed Rick may have found his balls again, but still it was not nearly harsh enough. And I for one am really sick and tired of how many characters they still have clinging to these weird ethical stands that even in a pre walker world would be naive at best. Glenn, shocked and appalled at how they killed Gareths group? HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE NEXT AT THE TROUGH! I swear if one more character does this "I know those cannibalistic, rapist murderers were going to torture, kill, rape and eat us, in no particular order, but you didn't have to be so MEAN about it!" I'm going to shit a kitten. And Tyreese, time to man the fuck up, seriously, you have a potentially fatal case of being a little bitch for no good reason. As I said before who the hell can't kill a man who tells you to your face he's going to kill you and the baby you're protecting? " Oh I beat him up real good though" get fucked. Just stop carrying that hammer and just put a box of tampons and midol in your belt because clearly the idea of surviving just makes your vagina hurt too much.

The abraham/rain man with a mullet storyline is getting tired fast, it seems to consist of abraham saying "We're going to washington! fuck any potential making a plan of how to actually get there successfully! Washington! Woo!" And rain man mumbling some poor attempt at technical bluffing that could be seen through by judith, who still has her mind blown by object permanence in peek a boo. Honestly, the entirety of his explanation so far beyond "it's classified" has made boomhauer from king of the hill look like charlie chaplin making his final speech in the great dictator.(look it up, seriously awesome speech btw) Nobody with half a scintilla of critical thinking would follow that guy to the gas station for a pack of smokes let alone to washington DC for a "zombie cure" You just wouldn't survive that long post zombie apocalypse being that friggin dumb. Unless rosita goes back to hot pants and there's an extended rosita/beth/maggie shower scene coming up soon, I'm going to get pretty choked.

MinionZombie

30-Oct-2014, 11:11 AM

http://videoportjones.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/terry-alexander-smiling.jpg

"Sheet! You two be crackin' me up, mon." :D

BTW, that GIF of Rhodes looks like either A) He's playing the worlds angriest game of "Pull My Finger" or B) A guy yelling at kids to get off his lawn. :lol:

We're here all week! :D

Ok, I liked the way they took Bob out, he had been the sole survivor of several previous groups and thought he was "cursed" sort of then he finds sasha, gets a bit of happiness and goes out in his sleep. The cannibals eating his leg aside I thought it was not a bad way to go in the post rise world, get a bit of your faith in humanity restored before you die.

I dug it, too. Cannibalism aside, he went out peacefully next to someone who meant so much to him. It was good to see that even in the face of such adversity Bob still had hope and positivity.

On the issue of Team Rick killing the Termites - well, you could have just killed them quickly with a machete to the brain and had it done in a jiffy. It was the extent of the brutality that was shocking ... Sasha recognised that in herself after she's finished stabbing her kill. Part of it would be frustration and anger, and a little bit of revenge, but you have to ask where's the line in the sand ... at what point do you stop being yourself and start being someone more like The Governor?

AcesandEights

30-Oct-2014, 04:11 PM

I thought how they dealt with Gareth and friends was good, showed Rick may have found his balls again, but still it was not nearly harsh enough.

I guess they were supposed to do what with Gareth and co.? Torture them for the sake of satisfaction or some twisted sense of justice? Yeah, that usually works out real well for the people who commit and witness such acts after the fact, sort of like an anti-team building exercise.

Trin

30-Oct-2014, 04:18 PM

You have to admit, what they did to Bob was harsher than what they got for it.

Maybe an appropriately harsh punishment would be for Gareth and Co. to be locked in a room and forced to listen to Dale explain morality to them for 2 seasons. That about killed me.

AcesandEights

30-Oct-2014, 04:25 PM

I guess they could have vindictively killed them in some horribly drawn out and torturous way that would give many of the frustrated TV viewers an outlet for the petty injustices they feel are heaped upon them by a cruel world in their day to day lives. Sure. :rolleyes:

MoonSylver

30-Oct-2014, 04:46 PM

MinionZombie

30-Oct-2014, 05:16 PM

I'm all for justice & vengeance, but come now, how much harsher should they have dealt with them than BEATING AND HACKING THEM TO DEATH?!? :rockbrow: :eek:

Gareth & company fucked with wrong people, & got what they deserved. Rick & crew took them out expeditiously, end of story. No need to make it uglier than it had to be, or turn it into something that it wasn't. :|

Indeed, and remind me Moon, when the zombie apocalypse happens, to team up with you. :D

I'm sure The Governor started out with good intentions before he started chopping off people's heads and dunking them in his aquarium, or binding people to chairs and then stabbing someone else so they slowly bleed out/turn/kill the bound one.

Sadism and sickening brutality isn't the answer. On the one hand you've got survival of the mind, body, and soul ... and on the other you've got hatred, vengeance, and brutality. Rick, Sasha, and Abraham's snuffing out of Gareth's gang was somewhere in-between and it's vital that they don't tip towards the latter hand. If you're going to sacrifice the goodness in you then what the hell is the point? That's no life to lead.

MoonSylver

30-Oct-2014, 05:21 PM

You bring chicks, whiskey, & weed & you are in MZ. :thumbsup::lol:

DayoftheZ

30-Oct-2014, 05:37 PM

You bring chicks, whiskey, & weed & you are in MZ. :thumbsup::lol:

Indeed, and remind me Moon, when the zombie apocalypse happens, to team up with you. :D

Can I join you both, I know the cure............. its classified!:shifty:

I agree with all that said the justice dished out by Team Rick was spot on.

blind2d

30-Oct-2014, 07:12 PM

Yep, Bob's awesome, and I'm gonna miss him. Felt a little sorry for Gabe, but what'reyagonnado? He was scared and panicked... I would've done the same in his shoes, perhaps. Amazing that he's kept his faith, sort of.
Yay, Michonne got her sword back!
Yay, tainted meat! I guess we'll never know... Or find out next ep.
Daryl's back?! What does this mean?!
Gabe's a wuss though. Screw that guy.

MoonSylver

30-Oct-2014, 11:50 PM

Can I join you both, I know the cure............. its classified!:shifty:

Depends: you must have an awesome hairdo or facial hair. Preferably both:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/ef/34/a4/ef34a42d3dbd9334e8d19b8575dd72d8.jpg

http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/Music-Hair-Cuts-Infographic-Full.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5273/5837727031_424697ffd1_b.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E3kv45jW7Dc/Ukpb8wA7sCI/AAAAAAAAAws/_BV-hEpNqgA/s1600/How-to-Choose-the-Right-Beard-Shape-for-Your-Face-Shape.jpg

:lol:

DayoftheZ

31-Oct-2014, 08:05 AM

I’m ok then as I am in the process of growing a beard. I will give the mullet a serious thought though after all mullets are “Business at the front party at the back”.

Back to the episode. I watched again last night and I don’t know if I misread it but was the idea to swerve the termites Tara’s? She said she would got to Washington but she had an idea which I read to mean she knew how to deal with the termites. If so it shows she was accepted into the group and not only did Rick do the awkward fist bump he trusted her judgement. Nice touch if I haven’t got my wires crossed.

Andy

31-Oct-2014, 08:08 AM

Indeed, and remind me Moon, when the zombie apocalypse happens, to team up with you. :D

I'm sure The Governor started out with good intentions before he started chopping off people's heads and dunking them in his aquarium, or binding people to chairs and then stabbing someone else so they slowly bleed out/turn/kill the bound one.

Sadism and sickening brutality isn't the answer. On the one hand you've got survival of the mind, body, and soul ... and on the other you've got hatred, vengeance, and brutality. Rick, Sasha, and Abraham's snuffing out of Gareth's gang was somewhere in-between and it's vital that they don't tip towards the latter hand. If you're going to sacrifice the goodness in you then what the hell is the point? That's no life to lead.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/filepicker%2FNlwcuyYsQ0KYX6xO3wT5_welcome_dark_sid e.jpg

MinionZombie

31-Oct-2014, 10:54 AM

You bring chicks, whiskey, & weed & you are in MZ. :thumbsup::lol:

http://www.fbtroll.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/chicks-with-guns.jpg

Done.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/5d/55/ce/5d55ce97272a7fcb427a47a7d427c32d.jpg

Done.

http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/P2250002.JPG

And done. :D

Can I join you both, I know the cure............. its classified!:shifty:

Good enough for me! :lol:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/filepicker%2FNlwcuyYsQ0KYX6xO3wT5_welcome_dark_sid e.jpg

When the zombie apocalypse comes, I guess we'll all have to start calling you "The Guv'nah", eh? :sneaky:

Annnnnnnnd I'll let ya'll get the topic back on track. :p

shootemindehead

31-Oct-2014, 01:25 PM

Wait...WTF were we're talking about again?

rongravy

31-Oct-2014, 02:16 PM

I guess they were supposed to do what with Gareth and co.? Torture them for the sake of satisfaction or some twisted sense of justice? Yeah, that usually works out real well for the people who commit and witness such acts after the fact, sort of like an anti-team building exercise.
It kind of reminded me of a video from Mexico I watched where lower level cartel thugs killed a whole slew of people at the same time with assorted weapons. They all started at the same time, and it was brutal. I'm also sure it will be done to them eventually, probably by the rival gang that they had done it to. An endless cycle...
That being said, TWD gang could've at least stuck some firecrackers up their butts and lit them.
We want vengeance, we want blooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.
Justice!!!
I j/k, bee tee dubs.
Quick and dirty.

Wyldwraith

01-Nov-2014, 05:38 PM

Again,
Completely support and agree with Team Rick's heated massacre of the Terminians. You try to hurt/kill a person's family and close friends, with malicious premeditation, you shouldn't be surprised that however "civilized" the person(s) might be in "normal" life, that the inner barbarian within us all will come to the forefront and do whatever is necessary to eliminate the threat to one's self and family. I guess I could understand Sasha, Glenn and Maggie (in particular) being somewhat thrown after the fact...we all hug certain elements of self-deception close, and the massacre of the Terminians quite probably cast those self-deceptions into sharp relief. Rather than stick it out and face that, it was easier and much more comfortable to simply put a lot of distance between themselves and the place where it all went down.

Although I agree with whoever said that it didn't make a lot of sense for Abraham to be in such a rush to leave once the immediate threat which had lead to him wanting to move out in the middle of the night was eliminated. Given that a bit earlier in the night all of Team Rick had agreed to go to D.C....one would've thought a military man would have considered sacrificing 24-48hrs inside a defensible structure and with no immediate threat at hand a small price to pay in exchange for gaining 6 more veteran combatant-survivors. In fact, lacking anything remotely resembling recent intelligence concerning either the areas through which they intend to pass on the way to D.C, and D.C itself, it only makes sense to go with as strong a force as can be mustered.

Put another way: Where's the upside of rushing off with just the 6 of them in the bus, when waiting in a well-secured church for one or two more days would CERTAINLY DOUBLE the size of the group headed to D.C? It just doesn't make any sense, so it comes of feeling like the writer-contrived excuse to split the group up that it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm REALLY enjoying this Season. Yet the # of highly visible applications of writer-fiat seems to be reaching an all-time high. That's bad, because it denotes a certain kind of intellectual laziness on the part of the writers.

Just my opinion. As always your may vary wildly and still be all good.