TWD 5x04 "Slabtown" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 5x04 "Slabtown" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!


Episode 504: Slabtown - “In this episode we get to meet a whole group of other survivors, but what looks safe and nice on the outside has a bit of a dark side.”

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis, Written by: Matthew Negrete & Channing Powell.

http://c534909.r9.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/504-Photo.jpg

[Moon Knight]

Here's hoping it's not an entire episode dedicated to Beth. Oh, who am I kidding of course it is. Hopefully they end it here and not carry over to a second episode. Not excited for this one honestly. Let's see how it turns out!

[MoonSylver]

Here's hoping it's not an entire episode dedicated to Beth. Oh, who am I kidding of course it is. Hopefully they end it here and not carry over to a second episode. Not excited for this one honestly. Let's see how it turns out!

Agreed.

OT: Hey, I just realized, my Avatar & yours are having a Marvel Team-Up! :lol:

http://cs619627.vk.me/v619627706/15cc9/-ubARfVwqwc.jpg

[MinionZombie]

Oh calm down. There'll be other people in the friggin' episode ... buncha cry babies. :rolleyes::p:D

Quite looking forward to this one ... who are these other people ... where are they ... why are they there and doing whatever it is they're doing?

Beth FTW!

[Moon Knight]

Haha sorry, MZ, just not a fan of the Beth character. Last time an episode was dedicated to her it was "Still", and that one even had Daryl as the co-star. But, yeah, I don't want to be THAT guy, so here's for another Walking Dead Sunday night!!

MoonSylver, those two are my favorites for sure! That pick was my cell phone lock screen pic for a very long time. :D

[facestabber]

Beth as a character doesnt do much for me but I'm with Minion on this. I wanna see other societies and how they've survived. Now If its all Beth for several episodes, then yes I will retract. Unless the story is just damn great lol.

[MoonSylver]

Oh calm down. There'll be other people in the friggin' episode ... buncha cry babies. :rolleyes::p:D

Quite looking forward to this one ... who are these other people ... where are they ... why are they there and doing whatever it is they're doing?

Beth FTW!

Geez, touchy much? :lol: I like Bethy ok...I could stare at her all day (:D), but just the look of the episode hasn't got me super stoked. I'm sure it'll be ok though. :)

[AcesandEights]

Yeah, I expect a down cycle for this episode, but that's good; if I keep my expectations tempered I may end up loving it if it's decent.

- - - Updated - - -

Definitely enjoyed a step away from the group and a look at a new twisted 'community' in this episode.

[MoonSylver]

Wha...? What tha...?!?! :stunned::eek::annoyed:

Decepnt episode after all. I was afraid it was all going to be a dream, or that it was going to be some lame ass "secret government group". Was it just me, or was there a sort of "Day" vibe to their little group on the edge. ;)

Left with as many questions as before. Looks like Abraham's group next week, so at least two weeks before we find out WTF is going on...?:annoyed::lol:

[Moon Knight]

Here we go with the jumping back and forth again. Sigh.

Decent overall with the exception of the last 15 min. That elevator shaft scene was amazing. Really creepy and well shot. The comparison to Day actually makes sense now that I think about it. What was up with that Joan chick? Was honestly confused at times. That kid Noah is the actor who played a young Chris Rock in "Everyone hates Chris." Im guessing he runs into Daryl and Carol.

[MoonSylver]

Here we go with the jumping back and forth again. Sigh.

Decent overall with the exception of the last 15 min. That elevator shaft scene was amazing. Really creepy and well shot. The comparison to Day actually makes sense now that I think about it. What was up with that Joan chick? Was honestly confused at times. That kid Noah is the actor who played a young Chris Rock in "Everyone hates Chris." Im guessing he runs into Daryl and Carol.

That was Carol that got wheeled in at the end. Daryl would make sense though. Cue rescue mission?

Yeah, the jump-around occurred to me too. But...*meh*. Hopefully they wrap up the individual threads fairly quickly.

[Moon Knight]

That was Carol that got wheeled in at the end. Daryl would make sense though. Cue rescue mission?

Yeah, the jump-around occurred to me too. But...*meh*. Hopefully they wrap up the individual threads fairly quickly.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Carol and Daryl to the rescue!

[facestabber]

I have to rewatch the episode but did anyone else feel the description of Beth's "rescue" was off? I can't explain it yet but I will rewatch tomorrow.

Additionally for a place that is concerned about resources, the implication was that Beth has been in a coma for a long ass time, so why the effort from these people? And the coma was caused by a strike(causing a cut) which still hasnt healed?

So are we set up to see the battle between certified badass Carol and superbitch cop? Carol has solid medical skills thanks to Hershel which makes her a liability to those goofballs.

Overall a decent episode. Previous 3 were much better. I can assume we now have a good idea who Daryl takes back to group.

[ProfessorChaos]

Here we go with the jumping back and forth again. Sigh.

totally agree. i really couldn't give any less of a shit about beth or who took her. now i wish that she was abducted and devoured by the terminus folks....this little side-tale about a hospital full of delusional power-tripping rapists was a total dud in my book. i was really hoping they'd wrap this detour from the main crew up in one episode, but it looks like we'll be seeing more of them in the coming weeks. i had a feeling that at some point this season would stumble a bit, it started off too good to sustain momentum and stay on course. i guess with 16-episode seasons you're gonna have some filler, but seriously, it seems like there has been about a dozen episodes wasted over the life of this show that have killed the pacing and could have been left out all together or edited into other episodes.

and did anyone else feel like they were trapped between two feuding divorced parents or something with all the "get online and visit keep amc or you'll never see the walking dead again!!!!!" and "don't believe amc, directv still loves you and you'll get to keep watching your beloved zombie show" commercials? what was even more annoying was the scrolling banners that amc kept popping up during the show reminding you of how much you love their show and can't live without it....ugh.

[Moon Knight]

totally agree. i really couldn't give any less of a shit about beth or who took her. now i wish that she was abducted and devoured by the terminus folks....this little side-tale about a hospital full of delusional power-tripping rapists was a total dud in my book. i was really hoping they'd wrap this detour from the main crew up in one episode, but it looks like we'll be seeing more of them in the coming weeks. i had a feeling that at some point this season would stumble a bit, it started off too good to sustain momentum and stay on course. i guess with 16-episode seasons you're gonna have some filler, but seriously, it seems like there has been about a dozen episodes wasted over the life of this show that have killed the pacing and could have been left out all together or edited into other episodes.

and did anyone else feel like they were trapped between two feuding divorced parents or something with all the "get online and visit keep amc or you'll never see the walking dead again!!!!!" and "don't believe amc, directv still loves you and you'll get to keep watching your beloved zombie show" commercials? what was even more annoying was the scrolling banners that amc kept popping up during the show reminding you of how much you love their show and can't live without it....ugh.



I don't have DirectTV so I didn't see any of those ads, but I heard how annoying they were. Sucks.

[thxleo]

totally agree. i really couldn't give any less of a shit about beth or who took her. now i wish that she was abducted and devoured by the terminus folks....this little side-tale about a hospital full of delusional power-tripping rapists was a total dud in my book. i was really hoping they'd wrap this detour from the main crew up in one episode, but it looks like we'll be seeing more of them in the coming weeks. i had a feeling that at some point this season would stumble a bit, it started off too good to sustain momentum and stay on course. i guess with 16-episode seasons you're gonna have some filler, but seriously, it seems like there has been about a dozen episodes wasted over the life of this show that have killed the pacing and could have been left out all together or edited into other episodes.


Agree 100%, Professor - an absolutely godawful episode. I was hoping that maybe last season was just an anomaly and that this season would be an improvement. Episodes 501 and 503 were very good. 502 not so much. But this one tonight was a turd and I'm worried that Gimple is going to take this show down a similar path as last season. I can't stand the guy. If you have to go on Talking Dead, like he did a few weeks ago, and explain all sorts of minutiae about the episode, which he did, that just shows your story telling ability is lacking. IMHO

[kidgloves]

Terrible, terrible episode. The Beth ones are so uninteresting and half baked.
Lots of navel gazing from me I'm afraid

[MinionZombie]

Not the best, but far from the worst.

Interesting to see another group surviving in a city ... very creepy hierarchy there, not a lot of trust. I liked Beth's fighting spirit - no weapons, so she yanks her IV out and brandishes the needle ... the cop lady is kind of weird too, and potentially very dangerous, that whole "greater good" thing ... as soon as you're not useful you're dead. There's no trust in their group, everyone's a commodity, a scythe forever dangling over their heads in case they're deemed unnecessary.

Carol's going undercover, I reckon. They'll stumble across Noah, hatch a plan, Carol goes in undercover while Daryl returns to Team Rick with Noah, and then they all go on a merry jaunt to get her ... that's what I'm assuming anyway.

As a stand alone episode it wasn't as strong as when The Governor was re-introduced (and I wasn't a fan of the music in the early part of the episode). Beth, as a character, is probably stronger when in a group that we're familiar with.

I would like to see our group reassemble properly sometime soon, but I'm not turned off by it either. It does mix things up a little bit and we get to mess with the time a bit, which shakes things up compared to say seasons two and three where the passage of time was not only very linear, but also very condensed.

Facestabber: As for the timescale in this episode, only a matter of days have passed between Beth getting snatched away from Daryl and where we currently are, so I'd imagine the passage of time in this episode is somewhere under a week's worth.

[MagicMoonMonkey]

Thought we were entering into a Day of the Dead scenario when the bitten girl was yelling about 'not being able to control them', sadly it was not to be. I hope we do get to a point where the Rick and the group enter in to a situation similar to the original script for Day of the Dead for a season or two.

On another note, would the companion series be better received if it was given a format like American Horror Story, with each new season being a new story/scenario with different characters?

[MinionZombie]

There was some pretty neat ideas in this one - Officer Dawn Lerner's "system", the whole "greater good" approach, the sacrifice of morals as well as trust, the paranoia that such a setup would create ... everyone fearful of becoming expendable etc.

Glad that creepy sour apple lollipop rapist guy got smashed and munched, too.

MMM - well, with the spin-off series, anything is possible I guess. They'd have to have that intention from the get-go though. It'll be interesting to see how that works out ... it'll absolutely need really compelling characters to pull viewers in week after week, particularly when TWD is so based around these characters and these actors, you know?

I'm pretty sure the actress who plays Dawn (cop lady) was in "Hello Ladies" (that HBO show with Stephen Merchant ... she was the female bestie living in his guest house) ... *checks IMDb* ... yep, it's her, Christine Woods: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2147876/?ref_=tt_cl_t2

I also enjoyed see the background details of how their little 'greater good' society functioned. The food and water collection on the roof, the car batteries, the static bicycled hooked up to batteries for charging etc.

TWD 5x04 Memes:
http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/lollipop-edition-walking-dead-5x04-memes.html


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MuOpbEBNO1c/VFezDk9F7kI/AAAAAAAADT0/GY77Q8KiBkE/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Dawn_Greater_G ood_Hot_Fuzz_Simon_Pegg_Angel_Shut_It_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8W1mSalki_Q/VFey_m-zclI/AAAAAAAADTk/Dl_I9gffpfc/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Beth_Noah_Elev ator_Lift_Face_Plant_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gR3VZH7YgCE/VFey8Ytr5VI/AAAAAAAADTU/iswuxxrRX6k/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Beth_Gonna_F_Y ou_Up_With_Some_Lollipops_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UkWyDgp-uJs/VFezCh1pJ7I/AAAAAAAADTs/CwCKKz-xpTg/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Beth_Real_Tire d_Suck_Ass_Hospital_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--inJ4VaQQBY/VFey9AXHe5I/AAAAAAAADTc/Eye_YFOIpQE/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Beth_Haters_Be _Like_Hater_Beth_Be_All_Flip_Bird_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vc89Clh9imU/VFezHUvQSSI/AAAAAAAADUE/Zo6FhQBfqRI/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Doctor_Beth_MD _Her_Prescription_Pain_Walker_Head_Stomp_DeadShed. jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hrLWAGbMMiA/VFezF5sd-3I/AAAAAAAADT8/k-mEqxFToDg/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Walker_Dafuq_H appened_Hand_DeadShed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_wDM5XVRiYk/VFey6y0pB7I/AAAAAAAADTM/1t0pVT4ufw8/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_5_Meme_5x04_Beth_Lollipop_ Attack_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[DayoftheZ]

I have to say I didn't connect with this episode at all, in fact for me personally I would say that it was the worse one across all five series.

I have read people say that Beth is a weak character and I hadn't really seen it until she was given a solo episode she really is a weak character and could do with being walker food. As far as the other characters, I didn't find the Lolly Pop man too convincing although it was nice to see him go. The police lady was a bit "paint by numbers" especially after a solid bad guy in Gareth. The doctor and Noah were interesting but I hope they don't join the main group because to me they need to keep the numbers they have now. A traveling group of twenty plus just wouldn't work.

I unlike a few here have loved nearly every episode of TWD from Days Gone By, with only minor niggles along the way. To me this was just poor and I found myself switching off a little when I am usually hooked.

Other than that good episode.:D

[Buzzbomb]

After last week's cliff-hanger... the great leap sideways... and it was a bit of a let-down to get thrown back in time, although I'd guess with Noah's escape, Carol's arrival and the last weeks final scene, I'd hope/guess the loose ends will all get tied up next week.

Thought the execution of the storyline was dealt with pretty well, the way the doctor & cops & patients played off each other... and how that was revealed to Beth & the audience, but felt more than a bit disheartened how in the TWD post-apocalyptic world, it seems again that only the nut-cases seem to have survived.

Glad the lollipop pig got his 'just deserts'.

PS: What were those frames on the roof?

[Legion2213]

Dawn reminds me of Admiral Cain from the rebooted BSG series, similar philosophy about survival, although she doesn't have half the control or ruthlessness of Cain.

I enjoyed this episode and was pleased to see a "city based" community.

#teambeth :p

[AcesandEights]

Sometimes you don't get the episode you want, you get the episode you need.

Now suck on that lollipop.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/Walking-Dead-504-The-Lollipop-Guild_zps1cc8bdc6.jpg

:D

[Rottedfreak]

He's evil? but her gave her a wowipop!

[Trencher]

#teambeth

Never the less I feel that this episode had only half an episode of content. It was too slow. I think they went for a slow pace to give us the chills when we came to realize that the hospital was run by bastards. However them riding around in black cars with white crosses on them, all the people in charge where white with conservative hair cuts and wearing spotless police uniforms whit shiny badges prominently placed there never was any doubt that they were evil to the core.

As a result I thought they were going to be more evil than they were. The hospitaliers would rape and give you a beating if you did not clean their shorts while the villains we met before would rape, torture, kill and eat you. (And some of them would probably eat your shorts afterward) It does not have the weight the writers thought it would have. The actors were great and it made the story bearable but in the end all that matters is if Beth escapes, these villains are just a bump in the road IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE BOSS OF THE HOSPITAL UNDERSTANDS THAT HELP IS NOT COMING OR NOT! I understand that the writers wanted to contrast the noble Vatos to the evil cops but that is just a rich boy fantasy that belong to the old world. It does not work in reality and it would certainly not work in the zombie apocalypse.

That said the actors were good and the story were allright just paced slow and the fans want to see what happens to Rick and company. Me personally dont hate skipping back and fourth as long as the stories are whole. No jumping back and fourth in episode please.

[MinionZombie]

PS: What were those frames on the roof?

Yeah, what were those things? That drove me nuts.


I enjoyed this episode and was pleased to see a "city based" community.

#teambeth :p

1) Indeed, we've always been out in the sticks or small towns and this is the first time we've been in the city since, what, season one? So it was cool to get a different visual texture here - and see a post-bombing Atlanta. Hopefully we'll be seeing more action in the built up areas over the next couple of episodes.

2) :D


Sometimes you don't get the episode you want, you get the episode you need.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rHl9g-Tyaws/TOsb6jIFe1I/AAAAAAAAAgY/Gaj1OqVbka8/s1600/batmanaxt.jpg

Batman approves this message. :D

...

We're also in a transitionary period, we're between big bad guys and between bases of operation, we're cast adrift ... we need to play with time and see events happening in different places at roughly the same time, otherwise it'd become very linear, the entire gang going from "A" to "wherever B ends up being, eventually" ... plus, splitting the group up, while a bit annoying on one hand, also affords the opportunity for individual or small teams of characters to really shine - the back half of season four did that so well (except for 4x12 "Still", which was generally a duff episode with nowhere near enough content to fill the running time ... although the car boot scene rocked).

5x01 was hella good, and everyone got a moment - but it was just a moment - that episode really belonged to Carol (as well as Rick, Tyreese and Gareth), with everyone else essentially getting not much to do, and there certainly wasn't time for any real dramatic meat beyond what was rightfully afforded to Carol. The group is very large at the moment, so this is an issue they'll have to work out soon, we can't have them all split up all the time, they need to be a unit, but splitting into groups some of the time also works very well to hold up certain characters to let them shine on their own away from the crowd ... perhaps that'll work better once they have a new base of operations to work from.

I think Beth got to evolve some more in this episode. Traditionally she's been supported by others, but after the prison she was out there with just Daryl - which is quite handy - but she learned a few things in that time. In this week's episode she was about to kill the Doctor and only stopped because she saw Carol getting wheeled in. Likewise Beth taught that rapist what for and used an impending walker to her advantage. She's also ruddy good with a gun now, so she can fend for herself.

Every character shouldn't be a hard case, we need a range of outlooks in this world ... Beth is a softer soul, but when backed into a corner she now knows how to fight her way out effectively ... even though, generally, this episode needed a bit of work.

Two thumbs fresh for Beth! :thumbsup:

[AcesandEights]

Two thumbs fresh for Beth! :thumbsup:

Yeah, I completely fail to see the problem with this week's episode, aside from the fact that it was a break in pace (and sorry, that has to happen sometime). The set up was very telegraphed, but that's hard to avoid when a character is forcibly taken and the very series itself thrives on conflict.

Other than that, it offered a nice change of pace and setting. There was still plenty of action and the hospital besieged by the undead was pretty menacing. The scene where Beth and Doctor Edwards go down to that first floor entrance was waaaaay creepy, to me anyway.

[kidgloves]

One thing I am really looking forward to is Rick showing these fools how law enforcement should be acting in an apocalyptic scenario :evil:

[sandrock74]

...all the people in charge where white with conservative hair cuts...never was any doubt that they were evil to the core.

Pardon me? Seems like a rather out of place racist comment. Only non-white people with crazy hair can be good?

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, I completely fail to see the problem with this week's episode, aside from the fact that it was a break in pace (and sorry, that has to happen sometime).

I've been seeing a lot of interesting comments online in various places regarding this episode - former Beth haters turning around on the character and enjoying this episode.

As for pace - damn straight - you can't be up-to-ninety all the time as it'd become tiresome, boring, repetitive, and ultimately meaningless. The troughs help define the peaks, and vice versa, you need the rollercoaster, the ups and downs, the quiet and the loud, the rough and the smooth, you absolutely need that contrast.


One thing I am really looking forward to is Rick showing these fools how law enforcement should be acting in an apocalyptic scenario :evil:

Hell yeah! I'd love to see Officer Friendly rock up there, whip out his Python and start swinging it around ... ... hang on a minute... :confused: :lol: :p ;) :D

[Christopher Jon]

One thing I am really looking forward to is Rick showing these fools how law enforcement should be acting in an apocalyptic scenario :evil:

Getting people killed with his poor choices and lack of leadership?

[ProfessorChaos]

I swear, they could have an entire episode with just one character out in the woods taking a poop, trying to find a substitute for toilet paper, and attempting to escape a single walker and some of you guys would still cream your jeans and defend every single scene. It's almost as if the show can do no wrong with some of you guys. I'm sorry, I guess I must have misplaced my rose-tinted fanboy glasses. ;)

This episode was such a step back in my opinion. I sincerely hope that the next episode gets the story back on the right track....And I realize that the show can't be balls-to-the-wall every single episode, but the ones that are supposed to be more cerebral and try to get a deeper meaning across usually fall flat in my book.

I'm still optimistic about this season, and that is really saying something compared to how I have felt about the majority of the show since the break in the middle of season 3. However, I will echo the sentiment that someone made about the group getting too large, and I really don't want them to start adding new characters just yet until they kill a couple more off. With too many extra characters, it is harder to be emotionally invested and connect with the main ones.....fingers crossed for next week, and in the meantime I'll start looking for those fanboy glasses again.

[MoonSylver]

Not necessarily. I think there's just different expectations from different viewers, & different levels of satisfaction or dissatisfaction depending on those expectations. I thought this episode was aight. Not great, but ok. I liked the look at the city & at a different group. Mostly it was a bit of filler & has me curious as to what's going to happen next.

[facestabber]

Getting people killed with his poor choices and lack of leadership?

Is the statement coming from someone that has never had to lead in a stressful and deadly environment?

At times I feel Rick Grimes is the antichrist to some of you.

[Buzzbomb]

With Noah gone AWOL at least Joan's mob had the good sense to pick up Carol.

....At least their laundry will still get done. ;)

[Neil]

Are people saying that was Carol wheeled in at the end? I actually rewatched it carefully and didn't recognise her. Looked like a bloke to me? Guess it would be a more appropriate ending though!

[MinionZombie]

With Noah gone AWOL at least Joan's mob had the good sense to pick up Carol.

Dawn.

Joan was the girl who got her hand/lower arm cut off.


Are people saying that was Carol wheeled in at the end? I actually rewatched it carefully and didn't recognise her. Looked like a bloke to me? Guess it would be a more appropriate ending though!

Did you have a blindfold on or something? It was blatantly Carol! :lol:

[Neil]

Did you have a blindfold on or something? It was blatantly Carol! :lol:
Wow! I guess in my defence I was watching that bit sitting in bed watching our 20" TV!

But I even swivelled my head around to see the face better! Wow!

[Trencher]

Pardon me? Seems like a rather out of place racist comment. Only non-white people with crazy hair can be good?
Lol no.

Point is that it was obvious that they were evil from the beginning. Because people like that are "always" evil in TV shows just as there was no suprise that the Vatos gang were good guys because people like that are always good guys in TV shows and movies.

Off course exceptions to this TV rule exist but the issue is the lack of surprise by watching the events unfold.

Again this only apply to TV and movie shows not reality at all.

[Wyldwraith]

Buzzbomb raised an excellent point:
While it's understandable that essentially nomadic, hand-to-mouth types would become feral in a post-apocalyptic environment, and understandable that even some groups blessed with secure shelter and relatively abundant resources will still go bad, the problem I'm having is that essentially everyone who isn't Team Rick are almost entirely amoral. Even the Vatos, who are supposed to represent good people stuck in a horrible situation, behaved in a reprehensible way for much of their interactions with Rick & Co.

Logically, it stands to reason that there must be other groups which have learned to walk the knife-edge between the pragmatism required to survive their harsh environment, and retaining some level of humanity. Don't get me wrong, I would EXPECT that groups like the Claimers and the Terminians would dramatically outnumber those groups that have retained common human decency. That said, the groups which retain a moral code shouldn't be so extremely outnumbered by feral savages that we never see any such groups.

I could think of several ways that survivors could've well, SURVIVED, up to this point. Just an example: During the initial chaos of the zombie apocalypse, people would, among other activities, have made major runs on the gas pumps. The same could not be said of the DIESEL supply. One long-haul trucker happens to pick up whatever survivors he/she encounters along the way....they retrofit the trailer into a secure mobile apartment and voila, a viable survivor group.

[MoonSylver]

#teambeth

Never the less I feel that this episode had only half an episode of content. It was too slow. I think they went for a slow pace to give us the chills when we came to realize that the hospital was run by bastards. However them riding around in black cars with white crosses on them, all the people in charge where white with conservative hair cuts and wearing spotless police uniforms whit shiny badges prominently placed there never was any doubt that they were evil to the core.

As a result I thought they were going to be more evil than they were. The hospitaliers would rape and give you a beating if you did not clean their shorts while the villains we met before would rape, torture, kill and eat you. (And some of them would probably eat your shorts afterward) It does not have the weight the writers thought it would have. The actors were great and it made the story bearable but in the end all that matters is if Beth escapes, these villains are just a bump in the road IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE BOSS OF THE HOSPITAL UNDERSTANDS THAT HELP IS NOT COMING OR NOT! I understand that the writers wanted to contrast the noble Vatos to the evil cops but that is just a rich boy fantasy that belong to the old world. It does not work in reality and it would certainly not work in the zombie apocalypse.

That said the actors were good and the story were allright just paced slow and the fans want to see what happens to Rick and company. Me personally dont hate skipping back and fourth as long as the stories are whole. No jumping back and fourth in episode please.


Pardon me? Seems like a rather out of place racist comment. Only non-white people with crazy hair can be good?


Lol no.

Point is that it was obvious that they were evil from the beginning. Because people like that are "always" evil in TV shows just as there was no suprise that the Vatos gang were good guys because people like that are always good guys in TV shows and movies.

Off course exceptions to this TV rule exist but the issue is the lack of surprise by watching the events unfold.

Again this only apply to TV and movie shows not reality at all.

I wasn't sure of their motives until I saw this guy...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sM0F3rgffrc/TDoU0Ksyl5I/AAAAAAAAAFY/wWfZOSU8iag/s1600/preview.PNG

...then I was pretty sure they were up to no good. :lol:

[AcesandEights]

I will admit, when Officer Gorman first showed up in the cafeteria I was surprised his first lines didn't include: "Well lookie here..."

- - - Updated - - -


Wow! I guess in my defence I was watching that bit sitting in bed watching our 20" TV!

But I even swivelled my head around to see the face better! Wow!

Time to get them eyes checked, Neil...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/tumblr_neg8a4yWJG1u0q1o6o2_500_zpsy1yhfoel.gif

[MoonSylver]

Now that I get a better look, is that Tyreese? :lol:

[MinionZombie]

On groups who generally function well...
We will be seeing such a group - or groups - in future, we just haven't got to that point in the overall TWD story yet.

Gorman was a bit dastardly in a fairly obvious manner, but then again I suppose there's little reason for him to hide his nefarious tastes. It seems to be happening quite openly in that place, not flagrantly right in front of Dawn, but she damn well knows about it (hence what Joni said to Dawn just before her arm got cut off). I wonder if Dawn wanted to save her to keep a 'rape target' around for the sick entertainment of assholes like Gorman, to help keep them in check? Possibly keep them off her own person too? ... *shudders* ... when you start thinking more about this episode, the creepier it gets.

Gorman's arc was just this one episode, so it had to be handled quite quickly, but I do agree that they could have toned him down a bit in his first scene. He was instantly recognisable as a bad apple from the get-go, it would have been nice if he'd been toned down a bit in that first scene so he was a little more 'coldly pragmatic', rather than 'sex for cafeteria food or else'. After that you'd then notch him up - e.g. the lollipop scene as-is, and then continue as-is from there.

- - - Updated - - -


Now that I get a better look, is that Tyreese? :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

[Neil]

Time to get them eyes checked, Neil...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/tumblr_neg8a4yWJG1u0q1o6o2_500_zpsy1yhfoel.gif

Wow that looked so different in my bedroom on that TV!

[MoonSylver]

Wow that looked so different in my bedroom on that TV!

Uh huh...sure you weren't in there watching "The WANKING Dead" instead? :rockbrow::lol:

[Moon Knight]

How did Joan get bit? I'll be honest, this episode confused me at times. Maybe because I wasn't really into it.

[Neil]

How did Joan get bit? I'll be honest, this episode confused me at times. Maybe because I wasn't really into it.

Wasn't she trying to escape?

- - - Updated - - -


Uh huh...sure you weren't in there watching "The WANKING Dead" instead? :rockbrow::lol:

Here come the stiffy jokes!

[zombieparanoia]

Buzzbomb raised an excellent point:
While it's understandable that essentially nomadic, hand-to-mouth types would become feral in a post-apocalyptic environment, and understandable that even some groups blessed with secure shelter and relatively abundant resources will still go bad, the problem I'm having is that essentially everyone who isn't Team Rick are almost entirely amoral. Even the Vatos, who are supposed to represent good people stuck in a horrible situation, behaved in a reprehensible way for much of their interactions with Rick & Co.

Logically, it stands to reason that there must be other groups which have learned to walk the knife-edge between the pragmatism required to survive their harsh environment, and retaining some level of humanity. Don't get me wrong, I would EXPECT that groups like the Claimers and the Terminians would dramatically outnumber those groups that have retained common human decency. That said, the groups which retain a moral code shouldn't be so extremely outnumbered by feral savages that we never see any such groups.

I could think of several ways that survivors could've well, SURVIVED, up to this point. Just an example: During the initial chaos of the zombie apocalypse, people would, among other activities, have made major runs on the gas pumps. The same could not be said of the DIESEL supply. One long-haul trucker happens to pick up whatever survivors he/she encounters along the way....they retrofit the trailer into a secure mobile apartment and voila, a viable survivor group.


I don't know that the "humanity" many on here expect people and groups of people to show is really something that extends beyond modern, first world 20/21st century society BECAUSE of the abundance and technology we have at our disposal. Look at bottom tier 3rd world countries, modern times of resource insecurity or how society worked even just a couple hundred years ago, outsiders = never welcomed, possible threat and possible source of resources. If you're in Northern Waziristan and you're not from a village, don't expect them to run out and offer you water, food and shelter. Odds are you'll end up on the working side of a rifle, being told in abrupt pashto to GTFO of there. Or how in any famine situation people are simply left to die rather than share resources. Or look at many of the warlord devastated areas of Africa, they don't just brutalize each other, they brutalize their own equally, check out the VICE guide to liberia to get some sense of the kind of day to day atrocities people commit when it's rules off, weapons hot (spoiler alert: we're talking about raping and eating children to gain "magical protection" and burning or macheteing to death people suspected without evidence of being wizards and witches). People are not inherently as nice and kind as we would like to believe unless we have an abundance of resources for several decades so we take the resources for granted.

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong here, I just think that historical human behavior during times of extreme resource scarcity shows the truth about how people would act post zombie apocalypse.

[Buzzbomb]

The more I watch this episode, the more my intial reservations slip away. Like most TWD I think it works much better when you can watch 2 or more episodes at a time, rather than having to wait a 'nail-biting' week between espisodes.

Wyldwraith's post got me thinking about how in today's world pyschopathic personalities tend to become leaders like politicians, & company bosses... In a post zombie-apocalypse world, it's conceivable that the same kind of turds would float to the top & become leaders in the various groups (especially as those with psychopathic traits are more likely to stick their neck out in combat situations...). Also, given every survivor would be bereaved & no doubt 'unhinged' by the collapse of everything they've taken for granted, it'd be easier to fall in & follow some nitwit.

In an earlier post I said that pretty much everyone Rick's group encountered were nut-cases, but thinking about it... Herschel's extended family were good folk, and elements of Martinez' group, Woodbury & the Prison had some good people too.

ZombieParanoia raised some good points. I'd hope that things might be different, given that in the immediate aftermath there would still be people with some altrusitic beliefs... In the situations you describe there has only been a cycle of poor government, inept western government/commercial intervention & little democaratic history.

In terms of Episode reservations... I'd guess a hospital would have it's back-up diesel generators, so it'd be possible to keep the lights on for the 2-3 years since "Z-day" assuming that a fuel truck or two were lying around, and only one floor of the hospital was occupied. This doesn't explain why they have to hook medical equipment up to batteries... unless all the juice was used to heat water for the laundry... Collecting water from the roof & using guinea pigs for food was neat (though Rabbits might have been better).

On the downside - staying in a city would be bad news, even without the walking dead there would be lots of disease, feral dogs, rats... A group of police staying 2-3 years 'waiting rescue' is pretty incredulous, especially since they have been doing recon to pick up weapons based on intelligence from new the patients they encounter. I mean they must have known that no help would ever be coming?

Curious that Noah also seemed to be the only (surviving) male patient....

[MoonSylver]

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong here, I just think that historical human behavior during times of extreme resource scarcity shows the truth about how people would act post zombie apocalypse.

Excellent points. That's pretty much the gist of one of the main sources of dramatic conflict in these scenarios (& TWD in particular) innit? Do we try to hang on to those morals & values in the face of the zombpocalypse, or allow ourselves to slide into, or even embrace, the savagery we're capable of in the interest of survival? ;)

[Moon Knight]

Wasn't she trying to escape?

- - - Updated - - -



Here come the stiffy jokes!

Thanks. Like I said, not a terrible one but it wasn't holding my interest.

[zombieparanoia]

Excellent points. That's pretty much the gist of one of the main sources of dramatic conflict in these scenarios (& TWD in particular) innit? Do we try to hang on to those morals & values in the face of the zombpocalypse, or allow ourselves to slide into, or even embrace, the savagery we're capable of in the interest of survival? ;)

Yeah, but isn't that a crap conflict? Do we engage in behaviors that will essentially ensure we perish but allow us to "die with our principles intact" or behave in ways that give us a chance of long term survival? It just feels artificial how they make it all about how if we're really mean or aggressive we "lose our humanity" as though this idea of humanity they hold so dear is some kind of weak utopian version that holds no basis on any reality.

[Moon Knight]

Has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps Rick and Dawn know eachother? Maybe they were together in Kings County before Dawn moving over to Atlanta? Who knows, doubt it but would be a really cool tie in.

[MoonSylver]

Yeah, but isn't that a crap conflict?

Is it? Witness disasters like Katrina or 9/11. There are plenty of tales of courage, sacrifice, selflessness as well as selfishness, cruelty, & depravity.

Granted, in the zombpocalypse it would be even harder to hold on to some principals & ideals compared to the examples, as there is is no end in sight & no help on the way, but I don't find it unbelievable that there would still be people willing to try.

Even in real life, there are folks who die all the time rather than compromise their principals & what they believe.

I don't see the question being
if we're really mean or aggressive we "lose our humanity" per se, it's a question of how far do you go, under what circumstances, for what reasons, & what is the cost to you, & are you willing to pay it? Trying to decide when the ends justify the means, & when they don't. Being able to tell the difference. The toll it takes. Do you go so far over the line that eventually you CAN'T tell the difference? How much of a savage do you allow yourself to become while fighting savages before you become one yourself? How low do you go before you stop being "us" & become "them"?

I'm not really disagreeing with you here. There's no doubt that if such a scenario went down there's going to be a lot more "me first/every man for himself/I got mine, you get yours" behavior than charitable, moral, & altruistic. That's pretty much the way it is in real life as it is, even WITHOUT all that going on. But just like in real life, I have no doubt there would still be people & groups trying to cling to their morals, values, & beliefs. They would be the exception rather than the rule though I'm sure.

But that's what makes for good moral conflict & dilemma IMO. It's not holding on to your morals, values, & beliefs because it's EASY to, but because it would be easy NOT to, & that when you DO have to compromise, when you DO have to do things that go against those principals, then what transpires as a result.

[MinionZombie]

Has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps Rick and Dawn know eachother? Maybe they were together in Kings County before Dawn moving over to Atlanta? Who knows, doubt it but would be a really cool tie in.

I saw an image posted online from the second webisode series of a cop photo with Rick and Shane in it, which also had another two coppers - one of which was a woman - but of course it's not the same actress.

It's a possibility, I suppose, but it's also a bit of a stretch - and it'd be quite the co-incidence, I'm sure. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

...

Moon - well said, Sir, well said. :cool:

[facestabber]

Has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps Rick and Dawn know eachother? Maybe they were together in Kings County before Dawn moving over to Atlanta? Who knows, doubt it but would be a really cool tie in.

Or maybe she was not law enforcement prior to these events and self appointed. But it would be an interesting meeting if they did know each other.

[Wyldwraith]

As a retort:
MANY cultures from the Bronze Age onward had STRONG traditions of hospitality. Their reasons differed, but were often semi-religious (For example, a Viking leader wouldn't refuse a plate of perfectly edible but not first-rate food and a cup of mead to a beggar that announced themselves at their Hall. There's even a religious/cultural warning of the Viking leader who DOES turn such a wanderer away, the wanderer ends up being Odin...and Odin rains down divine punishment on all present.)

The Greeks weren't as specific, but they had a general sense of "give the beggar/wanderer/unfortunate some bread and a glass of water, because the Gods might be watching and they punish the inhospitable."

Or there's the Bedouins and some other groups from the Arabian peninsula which had strong codes of behavior detailing the duties of the host to the guest and vice versa.

No, none of these cultures exist in the reality of a zombie apocalypse...but "bottom tier 3rd world nations" were mentioned...so I thought these examples might serve as contrast. The point being that hospitality has been a Virtue to varying degrees among most cultures around the world.

[Buzzbomb]

The kind of extinction level event like the zombie apocalypse also differs from your average regional or national emergency in terms of the percentage of survivors...

In situations where the food/water/shelter are scarce, but the number of survivors is reasonably large, there will be some conflict & survival of the strongest... but if, say, there were only 1 in a 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 survivors then I reckon there would be more willingness to co-operate & fight the common enemy.

If you think these odds are incorrect, think about how many zombies Team Rick have dispatched... if they've only killed an average of 3 zombies each per day, & they are three years in that would be roughly 1,000 kills per person, yet the zombie numbers have not diminished... so presumably the odds of still being alive are considerably worse than 1 in 1,000...

[Staredge]

From what I've seen and read, those who have the least are usually the most likely to share what they have with others.

[shootemindehead]

Wow that looked so different in my bedroom on that TV!

Turn the TV around. It's better to have the screen facing you.

- - - Updated - - -


...using guinea pigs for food was neat (though Rabbits might have been better).

I don't know anything about guinea pig meat, but you only eat rabbit, you'll starve. The meat is way too lean.

[MoonSylver]

Guinea Pig as food:


The common guinea pig was first domesticated as early as 5000 BC for food by tribes in the Andean region of South America (the present-day southern part of Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia)

Guinea pigs (called cuy, cuye, or curí) were originally domesticated for their meat in the Andes. Traditionally, the animal was reserved for ceremonial meals by indigenous people in the Andean highlands, but since the 1960s, it has become more socially acceptable for consumption by all people.

It continues to be a major part of the diet in Peru and Bolivia, particularly in the Andes Mountains highlands; it is also eaten in some areas of Ecuador (mainly in the Sierra) and Colombia.

Because guinea pigs require much less room than traditional livestock and reproduce extremely quickly, they are a more profitable source of food and income than many traditional stock animals, such as pigs and cattle; moreover, they can be raised in an urban environment. Both rural and urban families raise guinea pigs for supplementary income, and the animals are commonly bought and sold at local markets and large-scale municipal fairs. Guinea pig meat is high in protein and low in fat and cholesterol, and is described as being similar to rabbit and the dark meat of chicken.

I had discovered this when reading up on them as pets when considering getting one for my oldest daughter, so I wasn't too surprised by their appearance on TWD (though I was to discover their origins originally! :stunned:)

[Legion2213]

Shootem' is correct, rabbit is so lean that it really has little to no food value for long term survival. Probably good for filling a cavernous hungry belly in an emergency and supplementing other food though!

Interesting stuff about the guinea pigs...looks like the writers did a little bit of thinking on this issue...props to them!

[Doc]

I'm worried that Gimple is going to take this show down a similar path as last season. I can't stand the guy. If you have to go on Talking Dead, like he did a few weeks ago, and explain all sorts of minutiae about the episode, which he did, that just shows your story telling ability is lacking. IMHO


I too had high hopes for Gimple and have been disappointed. Granted, after the meandering soap melodrama that WD was converted into under Glen Mazzara's regime Gimple is still at the very least, a cut above that.

Anyway, I found this episode an interesting departure from the rest of our heroes. Better than the lackluster 'Strangers' and time wasting 'Four Walls and Roof'. I didn't mind spending an hour Beth though, the execution did leave much to be desired. The hospital seems yet another settlement with a dark secret. On the surface, it looks better than what’s outside. But it doesn’t take long to figure out that it’s built on a flaw that will rip it apart. That’s a fairly cool concept. I can't help, but feel we're back to the same scenario of the latter Season Four though. The group is fractured again. There’s no clear direction for the characters or the show. Eh.

[DayoftheZ]

Well I watched this episode for a second time before tonight's episode and I have to say it was better on second viewing. I think I would say it is still the weakest episode of all series but certainly not as bad as on first viewing.

I must have been in a right old mood last week.

[Doc]

I don't have the same resentment towards the Beth-centric episodes or portions as others here do. I consider 'Still' to be one of the finest episodes of WD ever made in this new era. It was a character-piece, something WD stuck in its melodrama, rarely if ever attempts and with such success. It put a little flesh on her bones, so to speak.

[shootemindehead]

I have no problems with Beth at all and I think the actress does a decent job. In amongst the Daryl's and the Governors, she's a breath of fresh realism. I've known girls like her. But, I've never met a single Daryl in my life.

But this episode was just "off" for me. It had its moments. but after the blistering start of the first three episodes, the setting here was just too different an angle. It may all tie up in the end though. I suppose it will. It's just another example of why watching 'The Walking Dead' from week to week doesn't compare to a marathon run of multiple episodes.