Bush Vetoes Stem Cell Bill As Promised.....

[Adrenochrome]

I can't even go off on this lame f*ck for this........

Way to go Christians!!!! Keep Humanity in the Dark Ages!!!!!!




dumb-asses.

[bassman]

This looks like a job for...Christopher Reeve!



Ah Crap....

[Adrenochrome]

This looks like a job for...Christopher Reeve!



Ah Crap....
No, seriously.....this is something that NEEDS TO BE!!!!!!
F*ck these creepy christians and their con job!!!
Christians in 2006 need to reboot their brains and realize what reality is all about!
"Oh, my God will be there and help"......"Oh, I put my life in GOD'S hands"........what the flying f*ck!!??
It's time for Christianity to be put on the back burner with all the other failed religions.

[Marie]

No, seriously.....this is something that NEEDS TO BE!!!

In all honesty I disagree. I think the adult and umbilical stem cells, which have been neglected as avenues of research, have rich potential without using potential life as a basis for research.

I've never heard that being pro life is "creepy" but oh well....

M_

[Adrenochrome]

I've never heard that being pro life is "creepy" but oh well....

M_
That's what creeps me out about these guys......they haven't got a clue when it comes to science and REALITY!!!!!!
"NO, you can't do this!!!"......"YES you can do that!!!!"
I can ask my Christian friends ONE question.......and they ALL do the same thing..........they don't answer.....they gripe and bitch and point fingers toward everyone but themselves...they try and take said question into another relm,.......(yes, this is ONE thing....because all of them do it).....like eating and zombifying themselves in front of their TVs....they don't "think". There is only ONE way,......as long as I can give you many many many directions to get there. ---- What The Flying mutha fu*kin F*ck!!??

I still love my Christian friends....but, dammit if they ain't a weird bunch of f*ckers!!!!?



oh my.....let me get back to the point......Pro Life - Pro ME
I am VERY pro life!!! BUT...I am also VERY pro self.


Everyone that makes it out of the womb and survives a lifetime is alright by me!!!! I don't give a flying fuc* how you live as long as it dosen't interfere with my life!!!!
If ya never made it out? Sorry.....wasn't my decision. - nuff said there..

Stem Cell Research could save alot of lives, but, do we have enough space?

[prettycorpses]

HEY HEY HEY why does everyone always have a go at us christians because of a select few!?!? You cant tar us all with the same brush and I'll have you know its only the nuts who stay in the dark ages not christianity and if you knew anything about christianity you'd know most of us are very accepting! Yeh theres stuff in the world we moan about but who doesnt, its just people who dont know better seeing the religion from the outside and sticking their oar in.....ok rant over.........I do agree a lot of so called christians need a reality check though!

God Bless :) :lol:

[Marie]

That's what creeps me out about these guys......they haven't got a clue when it comes to science and REALITY!!!!!!

The reality is, that even in places where the restrictions that America has put on stem cell research don't appy... very little has panned out. And what HAS panned out can use adult or umbilical stem cells....

THAT'S the reality. Like it or not... totally without religous bias.

M_

[Adrenochrome]

And what HAS panned out can use adult or umbilical stem cells....

THAT'S the reality. Like it or not... totally without religous bias.

M_
I know this.....but, as long as you have the resources to test different angles....go for it! Why not? Science has found MANY answers via researching EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!!!!!!
Christians hold TOO many things "sacred"......what if "Something is not to be touched" cures AIDS?

[Kaos]

I can't even go off on this lame f*ck for this........

Way to go Christians!!!! Keep Humanity in the Dark Ages!!!!!!




dumb-asses.

Agreed. This specific line of research has shown the most potential for success out of all other methods, and that is including the fact that many companies have had to pursue alternatives or lose federal funding since Bush has been in office.

Bush's veto is a lame toss to his conservative base. I doubt that if a Republican wins in the next election (and that is not an insignificant "if" by any reasonable measure) that s/he would continue this ban, but you never know. Of course, if a Democrat wins the ban is gone...at least for 4 years. :|.

Take this as a lesson Democrats - if given the choice between a conservative ideologue and a liberal ideologue, the conservative tends to win in America. If you put up a centrist and pragmatic Democrat against a conservative ideologue, the centrist is more popular. Bill Clinton being the classic example. I believe he was a member of a centrist caucus in the Democratic party, but the name of which escapes me.

(In case you are wondering, I have voted Libertarian in every election since the early 90's. I vote my conscience every time.)

[Rottedfreak]

Why can't this minority realise that theres some people in the world with little quality of life that could be helped one day by this research.

[MinionZombie]

I find this shocking ... I really despair at this sort of sh*t.

How is a bundle of cells a "life" or equal magnitude to anyone from a baby/toddler to an OAP? COME ON PEOPLE - CELLS - JESUS!!!

Stem Cell is well known to be quite possibly the biggest and best scientific advancement since sliced bread *chuckles*, but I'm serious, cutting this off to appease a bunch of know nothing rednecks who somehow think Stem Cell research means sucking spinal fluid out by your mouth from foetuses.

How can a life be a life without achieving consciousness and mobility?

The sooner STR gets approved the better, hideous conditions like Alzheimers or a multitude of diseases could be cured or at least afford people some dignity - especially with alzheimers. If these idiots blocking this sort of research actually paid attention to the horror of living your life in a state of constant, fierce decline then maybe they'd have some f*cking compassion for once in their miserable little lives.

"Yo Blair!" indeed...:rockbrow:

It's like here in the UK when "Frankenstein Food" was getting tested, the idiots of gubment (surprise surprise - LABOUR) TELL protesters where the trials are taking place. Said tree hugging hippy know-nothings turn up and destroy countless millions worth of crops and research ... we could have solved world hunger with that, but oh no, some hairy-arm-pitted, smelly weed smoking layabout reads one article by one of their favourite radical know-nothings and then humanity takes a giant step backwards...

...

And another point - why should a bunch of Christian scared-e-cats stop athiests and agnostics from having access to potentially life-saving science!!!??? Democracy my arse. It's like with the UK's "assisted suicide bill" - again, a bunch of complainer religious nuts stop folk who don't believe in THEIR god from having the ability to choose to cease existing in a vegetable state, oh thanks a f*cking bunch! :mad:

What do you expect from the sort of people that call "creationism" a SCIENCE ... I mean, come on...

Be a Christian, I don't give a sh*t, but don't dare encroach on my right to human advancement, life-saving science (that can save THEIR asses too!) and the ability to die with dignity should the situation arise.

Ack! Now I'm all p*ssed off...it's too damn HOT today too, f*ck this sh*t...

[Debbieangel]

HEY HEY HEY why does everyone always have a go at us christians because of a select few!?!? You cant tar us all with the same brush and I'll have you know its only the nuts who stay in the dark ages not christianity and if you knew anything about christianity you'd know most of us are very accepting! Yeh theres stuff in the world we moan about but who doesnt, its just people who dont know better seeing the religion from the outside and sticking their oar in.....ok rant over.........I do agree a lot of so called christians need a reality check though!

God Bless :) :lol:
You said it right! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Graebel]

from what i understand, embryonic stell cells have never helped any condition, only adult stem cells... second, at what point of development does this fetus have to be terminated?

Usually very early. Before the blastocyst stage. Which means that there are just a ball of cells, no distinguishing features, no organs, blood vessesl or anything.

Another fact to consider is that 2/3 of all pregnancies undergo natural miscarraiges. Most women do not even know they have them. If every life is sacred then women shouldn't be allowed to have sex since we don't maintain every pregnancy.

Last point, if we disallow stem cell research then we should shut down every in vitro clinic as they waste (and experiment on) hundreds more embryos than any stem cell research would ever have access to........Its okay to waste embryos to create a baby - but not to save any one else's life.:rockbrow:

[Kaos]

from what i understand, embryonic stell cells have never helped any condition, only adult stem cells...
Even if true, and I couldn't say either way, it misses THE point entirely. Embryonic Stem Cell Research has been scientificly shown to have more potential in areas of spinal cord injury, juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's etc...etc...etc...

Adult stem cells have been shown not to have this same potential. If you are a scientist who is trying to solve these problems, you want to be able to investigate and experiment in those areas that grant you the most potential.

It is not like scientists are not doing this research now. They are, but some are doing it without federal funding. It is also currently ok to experiment on a certain group of embryonic stem cells that is exempt from the federal funds ban, but the problem is that it is a limited and possibly tainted population.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Here's my question...if nutso Christians are so concerned about these embryonic stem cells, instead of merely stunting important life-saving stem cell research, why aren't they, en masse (like they do with abortion), trying to close down each and every IVF clinic? Why are they only outspoken against embryonic stem cell research and abortion? To me, this says "We're not okay with using these cells for life-saving research while at the same time helping infertile couples procreate, but we're okay with helping infertile couples procrate and we'd rather just toss the lil' suckers." I'm not saying they love IVF, but I don't see them having nearly as big a fit about it. Must be Bush's precious Snowflake Babies that's got them turned around on that. *groan*

Also, just for the record, because I just love stating my unpopular opinions, because I really just don't give a rat's a$$ who disagrees with me...I consider Anti-Choice folks creepy. I also consider all Christians as living in the Dark Ages...it's a silly, childish superstition, and generally, the world would be a better place without it, and really, anyone who believes there's anything other than what we've got right here. I feel that those Christians who sit there and pick and choose the things they like about their chosen religion and reject what they don't are worse than fundies. At least the fundies take it seriously and don't just say "Oh, I'm a Christian, but I am fine with gays." Please. And don't give me any crap about the individual or branch interpretation of the bible, because that in itself should tell you a little something about your word of god.

Let me repeat that I don't care if you disagree. There's no possible way that anything you can say would ever change my opinion on this matter. Thank you. :D

[erisi236]

Of course this is only a ban on FEDERAL FUNDING on stem cell research, it's not a ban on stem cell research in general. No one ever seems to get the distinction tho'

In fact if stem cells are so great why aren't Governments in every other country pumping billions into it? or why hasn't private enterprises taken up the cause?

Actually I think this quote pretty much answers my question...

"You've never worked in the private sector before, they expect results" :D

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

"You've never worked in the private sector before, they expect results" :D

Too true. IVF certainly didn't get where it is now through Federal Funding (much for the same reasons embryonic stem cell research is having trouble now--a cause they seemed to have dropped, not for moral reasons, but for reasons of popularity)--it succeeded in the private sector.

But like most Christian causes, it's the galling fact that they force their morality on everyone else, regardless of what others might believe. Because they want to protect clumps of cells, my (very much alive and viable in their selfhood) nieces might die of something they wouldn't have had to in their adult lives. Disgusting and entirely presumptive.


... why should I pay extra taxes for one more scam that will never show results...


You mean like IVF? :rolleyes: Please see above post. I'm sure a lot of couples who this procedure helped have children would beg to differ with this assessment.

Please excuse the double post.

[Cody]

I do think stem cell has its advantages, for example its going VERY well for the Japanese they wont be plagued by as much as us non enginered

[AcesandEights]

In fact if stem cells are so great why aren't Governments in every other country pumping billions into it? or why hasn't private enterprises taken up the cause?


I've thought about this before, and the pesimist in me wants to say that there's more money in keeping people sick for big business, but that's way to convenient of an answer.

Maybe I should try and find out what, if any, private sector entities have been involved in funding research.

To Google!

[Kaos]

yeah, let private foundations fund it... why should I pay extra taxes for one more scam that will never show results...

...like every telethon and money raising ploy out there today:evil:

Those get federal funding too.:rolleyes:

[MinionZombie]

But the thing is we're bitching about that select few, not all Christians. I'm a laid back kinda guy (at least I used to be before I started paying attention to politics) ... anyway, each to their own, you can be a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew or whatever (except Scientology, that's a rich man's cult quite literally - it should have stopped at a self-help book and gone no further).

Anyway ... the Christians that rant and shout are the ones who get the attention and therefore the bad name on behalf of the ones who don't speak up. We should have more Christians (or whoever) speaking up against the twats that are banning important research such as this, or saying EVERYBODY (regardless of faith - or lack thereof) isn't allowed to have the right to die when the time comes (physical and/or mental vegetation), or even be allowed to go and watch The Jerry Springer Opera without having a bunch of frothing-at-the-mouth nosey parkers saying "you're going to hell" ... freedom of the media anyone?

*ack!* I'm getting ranty again ... point is, we're just bitching about the vocal minority, who end up feeling like the vocal majority, because we don't hear anything from the silent majority...

[Marie]

Even if true, and I couldn't say either way, it misses THE point entirely. Embryonic Stem Cell Research has been scientificly shown to have more potential in areas of spinal cord injury, juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's etc...etc..

Let me see if I understand your arguement Okay? Please understand I'm really not trying to be snippy.

You just said that you didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside) But since the same people who gave us GMO crops that have been suspected to poison us as well as the insects, say it'll help we should just give them a pass and do this?

Interesting thought. What's next? Using the indigent and the handicapped as organ doners for the rest of us, which BTW has the advantage of being a proven technique. We CAN transplant successfully.

See? What your missing here is the cost of this line of research. The cost is our humanity.

M_

[Kaos]

Let me see if I understand your arguement Okay? Please understand I'm really not trying to be snippy.

You just said that you didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside)

M_
You definitely misconstrued the statement in context the message I was responding to. Doom made a statement that embryonic stem cell research hasn't helped anyone as of yet. I agreed to the possibility that his exact statement MAY be true, in as much as this type of stem cell research or any type of medical research it takes time to develop and eventually reach patients. I was demonstrating that this is not a particulary relevant point since his statement was true of aspirin at one time.

The scientists who are working in this field know a whole lot more than you or I on the viability of this research. The majority say it is viable and worthy of research. I know that George Bush did not veto the bill based upon the scientific viability but due to his moral opinion of the issue. (At least if you want to take him for his word.) He isn't really coming out swinging against the scientific community on their analysis regarding viability. I think he knows better than to do that.

I know you weren't being snippy, you are a good debater who feels strongly on this issue, and I respect that.

The only arguement that has any merit for debate(since the viability issue has really been objectively decided) is on whether the research is moral. You have your stance, and I have mine. Both are subjective by their very nature so I won't bother arguing with you about them. I respect your right to have your opinion.

The only other arguement I might entertain is whether the government should be funding medical research. Maybe yes, and maybe no. But if no, then no medical research should be funded whatsoever including all forms of cancer (childhood forms included).

[Tied2thetracks]

Can you guys discuss this without being assholes? I don't need to be called a dumb ass or a redneck or anthing else being tossed at christians on this thread. Enough with the blanket statements, plenty of non christians are against abortion. I am equally annoyed moderaters are joining in on the name calling.

[p2501]

HEY HEY HEY why does everyone always have a go at us christians because of a select few!?!? You cant tar us all with the same brush and I'll have you know its only the nuts who stay in the dark ages not christianity and if you knew anything about christianity you'd know most of us are very accepting! Yeh theres stuff in the world we moan about but who doesnt, its just people who dont know better seeing the religion from the outside and sticking their oar in.....ok rant over.........I do agree a lot of so called christians need a reality check though!

God Bless :) :lol:


because "you" don't self police your asshole membership.

mainline Christians keep giving fundies a pass, so to me they're guilty by apathy.


I can't even go off on this lame f*ck for this........

Way to go Christians!!!! Keep Humanity in the Dark Ages!!!!!!




dumb-asses.


pfft come on, your supprised?

what hasn't bush blunderfukked his way through on.

here's hoping nacy reagan beats his monkey ass.

[Marie]

The only other arguement I might entertain is whether the government should be funding medical research. Maybe yes, and maybe no. But if no, then no medical research should be funded whatsoever including all forms of cancer (childhood forms included).

Actually, you won't get much arguement from me on that... I think if the government concentrated on policing (including themselves therefore watching out for our enumerated rights) ,national defense and road maintence I'd pretty much be happy. Truthfully they're not doing any of this to my satisfaction.

Let Doctors and drug companies persure the research. I think someone else pointed out that when a private company is paying the bills what counts is results.

M_

[HLS]

That's what creeps me out about these guys......they haven't got a clue when it comes to science and REALITY!!!!!!
"NO, you can't do this!!!"......"YES you can do that!!!!"
I can ask my Christian friends ONE question.......and they ALL do the same thing..........they don't answer.....they gripe and bitch and point fingers toward everyone but themselves...they try and take said question into another relm,.......(yes, this is ONE thing....because all of them do it).....like eating and zombifying themselves in front of their TVs....they don't "think". There is only ONE way,......as long as I can give you many many many directions to get there. ---- What The Flying mutha fu*kin F*ck!!??

I still love my Christian friends....but, dammit if they ain't a weird bunch of f*ckers!!!!?



oh my.....let me get back to the point......Pro Life - Pro ME
I am VERY pro life!!! BUT...I am also VERY pro self.


Everyone that makes it out of the womb and survives a lifetime is alright by me!!!! I don't give a flying fuc* how you live as long as it dosen't interfere with my life!!!!
If ya never made it out? Sorry.....wasn't my decision. - nuff said there..

Stem Cell Research could save alot of lives, but, do we have enough space?

Well i am Christian and all for stem cell research. It must be the Catholics, lol

[dmbfanintn]

didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside)
M_

Again Marie, you never ceae to amaze me.

Do you really believe that there is NO potential in ESCR?

you say that your reading puts in the not catagory. What is the source of your "reading" and do you ever read things from sources that are, say, a little more liberal? There is plenty of reading out there that says there is plenty of potential in this reasearch, do you just choose not to read those articles?

You're a pretty hard line conservative aren't you?

how do you feel about Global Warming? I know there was a thread about it a couple of days ago, but I do not recal you participating.

Do you hold the same opinion as your president? That global warming is BS?

[Graebel]

For all Pro-Choicers.....instead of arguing drive by your nearest pro-choice clinic and tell the volunteers working there - (The ones who guard incoming patients.) - that they're doing an awesome job.

It definitely makes more sense and a bigger impact to offer praise than to argue a point. We'll never change each other's minds and the volunteers appreciate it very much.

:D

[Marie]

Again Marie, you never ceae to amaze me.

Do you really believe that there is NO potential in ESCR?

you say that your reading puts in the not catagory. What is the source of your "reading" and do you ever read things from sources that are, say, a little more liberal? There is plenty of reading out there that says there is plenty of potential in this reasearch, do you just choose not to read those articles?

Do you hold the same opinion as your president? That global warming is BS?

Glad to know I amaze you:D .

I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect.

Global warming is IMO part of the natural progression of planetary weather. We've been coming out of an ice age for the last 5,000 years. Humanity as a race grew up in a fall or winter of the planet...now it's high summer. In a few hundred years it may well be approaching fall again. I believe that the human race has contributed minimally to this process. if at all. The world is a big place, and me living in third world conditions or us allowing the rest of the planet's people to tell us how to live isn't going to change that.

I have answered you seriously and honestly. Respond as you will.

M_

[Kaos]

Can you guys discuss this without being assholes? I don't need to be called a dumb ass or a redneck or anthing else being tossed at christians on this thread. Enough with the blanket statements, plenty of non christians are against abortion. I am equally annoyed moderaters are joining in on the name calling.
Speaking soley for myself:

Since you used the plural of the word "moderator", I presume you mean that I was involved in name calling. First and foremost, you are incorrect. I haven't called anyone anything. Second, to agree that a group is behaving inexplicably against the interest of humanity is an acceptable opinion, and it is not name calling. Third, to deny that a vocal community of conservative Christians is against the research is like saying that radical Islamists do not support terrorism. Keep saying the former and people will look at you like you said the latter.

But seeing as you are a Christian, and in all likelihood, not insane, I agree that the rhetoric is getting a tad hot surrounding the religion itself.

Please ease up a bit, folks. If you are criticizing a political movement which happens to be composed of Christians, please make sure you are clear it is the political movement you are criticizing.

[HLS]

:p Well, I am going to make someone mad, so I apologize in advance but i just gotta say it. It is unfair to label this the fault of the christians. Just because Bush vetoes the bill on stem cell research does not mean all christians are against it. There are some die hard radical christians out there granted but not all christians are against stem cell research, I know some non-christians and agnostics that are equally against stem cell research. Not every christian is like Bush.
stupid people that make stupid decisions come in all religions.:D

[Kaos]

:p Well, I am going to make someone mad, so I apologize in advance but i just gotta say it. It is unfair to label this the fault of the christians. Just because Bush vetoes the bill on stem cell research does not mean all christians are against it. There are some die hard radical christians out there granted but not all christians are against stem cell research, I know some non-christians and agnostics that are equally against stem cell research. Not every christian is like Bush.
stupid people that make stupid decisions come in all religions.:D

I most sincerely doubt this post will make anybody mad.

[MinionZombie]

Now, my science is pretty ropey these days (I was educated under the Labour gubment ... i.e. cram a bunch of info for one exam then forget it all afterwards) ... but global warming is because of carbon dioxide right? As in there's too much, it forms a layer around the earth, which stops the heat from the sun escaping after having penetrated our atmosphere. Therefore the earth warms up ... surely the simple solution would be to just whack up a shedload of trees around the globe, which would suck up the CO2 and belch out oxygen...at the very least it'd help a good bit.

[dmbfanintn]

Glad to know I amaze you:D .

I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect.

Global warming is IMO part of the natural progression of planetary weather. We've been coming out of an ice age for the last 5,000 years. Humanity as a race grew up in a fall or winter of the planet...now it's high summer. In a few hundred years it may well be approaching fall again. I believe that the human race has contributed minimally to this process. if at all. The world is a big place, and me living in third world conditions or us allowing the rest of the planet's people to tell us how to live isn't going to change that.

I have answered you seriously and honestly. Respond as you will.

M_

I am not exactly sure what you mean by that last sentence, I read it sarcastically. I don't recall ever being anything more that Serioous and Honest with you either.

I see where your coming from on your points, but you really didn't answer the main questions I had:

"My reading puts it in the NOT catagory"

That was my main point for you Marie, Your reading.

As I said before, It all depends on where your get your reading from.

The way I interpret your post, is that you do not seek out alternative view points, you have a comfortable source of information that you do not deviate from.

Words like this:

I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect.

Farming People????? WTF That right there is definitley some right wing, Christian (No offense, at least I capitalized it!) rhetoric!

Once again: Global Warming IMO

The case being made for global warming right now is not made up of Opinion, these are facts!

I am rambling now, I guess my question really falls back to this:

Do you watch and read news and info sources for many viewpoints and then decide for yourself, or do you stick strictly to the sources that only support and promote your idea of the truth.

(Everyone can't be right ya know)

[p2501]

For all Pro-Choicers.....instead of arguing drive by your nearest pro-choice clinic and tell the volunteers working there - (The ones who guard incoming patients.) - that they're doing an awesome job.

It definitely makes more sense and a bigger impact to offer praise than to argue a point. We'll never change each other's minds and the volunteers appreciate it very much.

:D

agreed. and while your there, drop them some cash. PP centers are nearly always underfunded.

[Marie]

Do you watch and read news and info sources for many viewpoints and then decide for yourself, or do you stick strictly to the sources that only support and promote your idea of the truth.

(Everyone can't be right ya know)

Yes, I get my information from various sources. And like anyone else, I filter it through my mind and therefore put my own slant on it unless the conclusion is inescapable. You do this too. Everyone does.

The fact remains that NO particular benifit has yet arisen from fetal stem cell research. Certainly none that canot be duplicated from willingly donated adult stem cells or umbilical stem cells. If it had then private companies would be standing in line to do it and reap the rewards... instead of whining to the rest of us to finance it.

M_

[coma]

The 26 stem cell lines already being researched are
contaminated
And 26 lines are hradly representitive of billions.

Also
Those 6 day old embryos will be destroyed wheteher they are used for researched or not. They are "backups" for in vitro fertilization. They are NOT available for adoption, unless they are specifically allowed to be by the donor. They are hardly ever authorized to be donated. Usually, once a woman gets a succesful pregancy, they dump the extra embryos.

Bush and his cronys lied. They know they lied. If anyone did even 2 minutes of research they would find the truth.
I watched the beginning of that speech, turned off the TV, then 20 minutes later turned it on and he was saying the exact same thing.


. If it had then private companies would be standing in line to do it and reap the rewards... instead of whining to the rest of us to finance it.

M_
Fact is, it IS being researched by private companies.
Problem is
PATENTS and corporate secrecy.
The govt is "open source". NO Patents, TM or (C). All the info is free amd open. So noone can be resrticted from benefiting.
The US has been the leading light of scientific research. But not any more. It was also the leading funder and most of the advanced have been from projects funded by the govt.

I for one think having to suffer thorogh a disease because of a powerful but extremly small minority that is uninformed, and trying to force an unrelated matter under the element of Abortion is repugnant. Bush Quoted the "Right to life, liberty, persuit of happimess" bit but said only the Life part. Just code for the wacko section of his base.
There are NO FACTS to the anitistem cell argument.
Only ideology forcing itself selfishly on another issue in the hopes of furthering the Anti choice agenda.
Its selfish and amoral and a big fat glass of Kool Aid.
They dont care about life, just being "right" and winning.
Dont believe the hype

[Danny]

Now, my science is pretty ropey these days (I was educated under the Labour gubment ... i.e. cram a bunch of info for one exam then forget it all afterwards) ... but global warming is because of carbon dioxide right? As in there's too much, it forms a layer around the earth, which stops the heat from the sun escaping after having penetrated our atmosphere. Therefore the earth warms up ... surely the simple solution would be to just whack up a shedload of trees around the globe, which would suck up the CO2 and belch out oxygen...at the very least it'd help a good bit.

it wouldnt work were making more and more veryday and chinas setting up all those coal factorys, america will never get rid of fossil fuels till they literally have ...and us brits are just too lazy in our comfort zone to do owt and the trees couldnt produce and intake fast enough.

i earnt that g.c.s.e in science!:lol:

[MinionZombie]

But if you literally put up f*cking LOADS of trees all over the world it'd do a lot of good, not solve it, but do a lot of good.

Also, it's a bit retarded the gubment moaning and whinging at us everyday joes, taxing us for it when really they should be targetting major corporations that do at least 50% of it on their own. Also, things like trucks and busses need to be turned into hybrids. If we had a working rail network we could ship a lot of stuff cross-country and then use hybird trucks for short distances to various destinations for the products shipped en mass by rail.

We should also start recycling (I don't trust our gubments when they say we are, did you see that Dispatches on Channel 4?) rather than sticking sorted trash into landfills still.

It's all mouth and no trousers this anti-global-warming movement, all thanks to pricks like Bush and Blair ... and people should in theory fart less, that doesn't help the atmosphere. In fact, the methane given off by a single cow in a day is worse than the emissions from a Land Rover during a week - FACT.

Or we could just fly to an ice planet and cut out a HOOGE slab of ice and drop it in our oceans, a la Futurama. :lol:

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

So, I was reading this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/30/AR2005053000872_2.html) and this stuck out:


Nightlight, which has received more than $800,000 in grants from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to promote embryo adoptions, is one of only a few agencies that treat embryos exactly like infants.

So...we can't use tax payer's cash to fund stem cell research, but we can use it to fund a f*cking embryo adoption agency (which, by the way, only 128 out of 400,00 (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13973858/site/newsweek/) have actually been adopted)? I get this odd feeling that once a serious medical breakthrough is accomplished through the privately funded embryonic stem cell research (and I have no doubt that it's just a matter of time), it's going to be saving a hell of a lot more lives than 128 out of 400,000.

[AcesandEights]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted. :|

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted. :|

Sure got a point there. *sigh*

[coma]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted. :|
But there's no ideological benefit in that.:(

[MinionZombie]

I get this odd feeling that once a serious medical breakthrough is accomplished through the privately funded embryonic stem cell research

Damn straight. Many big breakthroughs come from people working independently, or against the system (or without their knowledge/permission). Fact is gubment folk aren't visionaries, but the folks prodding these embryos are those visionaries. It's like in most walks of life, it's always some guy tinkering in his shed or a few dedicated souls coming up with something new that cause the biggest ripples - not ALL the time, but quite a chunk of it at least.

[coma]

I woukld pont out that govt grants are grants for NON govt employees, like researchers working at a university. Orphan Diseases (rare diseases, of which I have one) are ONLY researched by scientists with Govt funding. Private funders only fund projects where profit is a strong possibility.
If you have an Otphan disease, and there is no Govt funding for any related reasearch, you litereally have NO hope for relief.

Relating Govt funding for research to Govt agencies like the DMV is a misnomer and not very accurate, respectfully