TWD 6x01 "First Time Again" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 6x01 "First Time Again" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Greg Nicotero
Written by: Scott M. Gimple & Matthew Negrete

[AcesandEights]

Pretty strong start!

Surprised no one else has posted yet :shifty:

[Harleydude666]

Please keep all talk of episode 6x01 "First Time Again" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Greg Nicotero
Written by: Scott M. Gimple & Matthew Negrete

"Strong" is saying it mildly. It had a bit of everything. Sorry to see Carter so quick. A little surprised at Morgan's reaction to Rick putting Carter out of his misery. Morgan knows what needs to be done.
Next week looks even better, a more tension filled episode.

[Moon Knight]

Great episode and a tremendous way to start the season with what seems is the start of a very amazing and ambiguous storyline from the books.

I'll have more to say later but right now I just have to ask, where the f*ck is Holly? lol

[zomtom]

It was a solid episode. I'm going to re-watch it in a little bit. It was a big episode (if anything for the number of walkers) but I still felt just a little let down. I guess I fell for all the hype. Don't get me wrong; it was a good episode but nothing like Season 5's first episode. There just weren't any "sit on the edge of my seat" moments. That being said, they definitely have set up for next week. I think that one is going to be an ass kicker!

[Neil]

Pretty strong start!

Surprised no one else has posted yet :shifty:

It's not aired in the UK until late Monday evening, so I don't get to see it until Tue/Wed evening... :(

So I generally do not even come into these threads until Tue/Wed incase of a spoiler!

So to coin a phrase... I'll be back!

[MinionZombie]

I'll echo the "strong start" sentiments.

One of the small things I liked about this episode were the moments of humour in the dialogue ("respect the hair game" etc). It's something I try to incorporate into my own writing - even in bleak times, people still find a way to lace a bit of humour into their day.

I do agree that there weren't really any 'edge of the seat' moments. It was more of an epic, but one or two nailbiter moments would have been nice - although I imagine we'll have plenty of that in the next couple of episodes. I seem to remember cast/crew saying that the first three episodes are pretty crazy. :hyper:

Loved the vast scenes of them guiding the walker herd and setting up their plan - cutting back and forth between staging it and then doing it - it was a zombie fan's dream come true to see something like this, so I'm very pleased with this premiere. This one did require the additional running time, whereas I think the Season 5 finale didn't quite have enough content - or maybe just shock moments - to really fill out every minute of that extended Season 5 finale. Although, to be fair, I've only seen it once - so I'll re-assess when I get the S5 boxset on Blu-Ray.

Likewise surprised to see Carter (Ethan Embry) go so quick, but at least he had a good arc over the episode. I loved the bit where Eugene bumbled into their conspiracy meeting - that "Hello" cracked me up (another nicely observed and balanced bit of humour).

My favourite walker of the episode wasn't the one tangled up in a tree (which looked amazing in the promo pics, but didn't quite get enough detailed coverage to really show it off in the episode), but was in fact the first one to squeeze its way through the two truck trailers - when it's flesh all splits/peels away I was decidedly happy. Yet again KNB continue to rock it and find new ways to give we gore fiends something to really grin about. :elol:

Speaking of, the quarry of walkers kicked arse! Those grand shots boasted an awesome scale that reminded me all over again how lucky we are as zombie fans to have this show. Thinking back to the dark days of the 1990s when it was all rather thin on the ground zombie wise, my head would have exploded at the sight of something like the walker quarry! :D

Some interesting bits of character business throughout. Uneasy alliances (Glenn and Nicholas), some proper sour moments (Rick being, rightfully, proper effed off at Gabriel), and Abraham's curious mental slide ... all that talk about Pompeii brains and such ... I think we'll see some of the darkness that's been bubbling under the surface erupt. Looking forward to it. Plenty of other business dotted around to, particularly with Morgan (loved the call back to Michonne pinching one of his protein bars).

So all-in-all I'm very happy ... and who's honking that massive horn?! Shit is about to go down big style, methinks! :hyper:

...

TWD 6x01 Memes:
http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/mullet-edition-walking-dead-6x01-memes.html#more


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2HuLcFzYUDc/VhvNK95YaEI/AAAAAAAAERQ/2AMkU68zZcU/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Morgan_Michonne_Pro tein_Bar_Liar_Governor_6x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dVh9fkUTh9s/VhvNMTNPf7I/AAAAAAAAERY/U6TXTX0FmlA/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Tara_Eugene_Golden_ Mullet_Respect_The_Hair_Game_Alt_6x01_DeadShed.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8UJvtCQ6mDA/VhvNJTPl6qI/AAAAAAAAERI/ljkHryqNLIg/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Eugene_Respect_The_ Hair_Game_6x01_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[Ed]

I'm thinking it's Gabriel honking that horn.

[kidgloves]

Not sure about anyone else but I had a zombie boner :eek: all through this.

[slayerized]

One tactical nuke at the bottom of that quarry - problem solved!

[Moon Knight]

I must say, Corey Hawkins as Heath is a dead ringer for his comic counterpart.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, He's spot on.

This was a decent opener, although I kind of felt the time/colour shift a bit jarring at times, I have to say.

When the episode started, I was like "wait, WTF is going in? Did I miss an episode?"

No complaints in the zombie department though and a great "oh shit" ending.

[Buzzbomb]

I found the non-linear jumps and B&W footage irksome to say the least.

Also last season, when Nicholas & Aiden were taking Glen & Tara on a dummy run in the woods - didn't Aiden say that they they scouted out in a circle and had gone as far as 53 miles from Alexandria? You'd think they'd have gone past it more than once and would have known about the build up of zombies in the quarry.

If not Nick & Aiden then wouldn't Aaron or Daryl or one of the kids on walkabout have stumbled over the quarry or at least heard the walker noise that was attracting the DC walkers like flies?

Maybe it'll improve on 2nd viewing.

[MinionZombie]

I'm thinking it's Gabriel honking that horn.

I'm not so sure ... but if it is, then that bastard needs to die ... however, I'm thinking maybe - somehow - it's The Wolves. Perhaps we won't know who blasted the horn for a while yet. With a herd like that coming at Alexandria it's gonna be all hands on deck with no time to sniff out a culprit and apportion blame.


Not sure about anyone else but I had a zombie boner :eek: all through this.

:lol::lol::lol:

Yeah me too. :D


One tactical nuke at the bottom of that quarry - problem solved!

Had it not been for the walkers sneaking through (and then the ruddy truck crumbling off the cliff) then yeah, some kind of huge fire or something could have been an option. Then again, the walkers might not be the most flammable ... but if they'd had time they could have somehow masterminded a giant zombie bonfire and melted all the sods together into one giant mass, muahahahaaaaa. :elol: Mind you, that'd create a massive smoke cloud and potentially attract more walkers or nefarious sorts.


I must say, Corey Hawkins as Heath is a dead ringer for his comic counterpart.

Yep, thought the same. Very cool.


I kind of felt the time/colour shift a bit jarring at times, I have to say.

Personally, I liked it. It made the distinction clear - and it also had a vibe of the comic books about it. I think there needed to be a distinction (they'd considered desaturating the past and over-saturating the present, but the latter wouldn't have made sense for the long-established style of the show). It also made the most sense to cut back and forth between planning their moves and then enacting them. If it was laid out in a linear fashion it'd be very stilted (and you wouldn't be able to juxtapose scenes like Rick and Morgan discussing the inevitability of Carter's death - and then seeing Carter's death). You need to keep the momentum - the steps of their plan are revealed as they happen - and the pace of the episode is allowed to go up and down, rather than what would have likely been a very slow build and then a very full-on climax that would perhaps be a bit too rushed.

So all-in-all I thought it was an interesting choice that made sense. Wouldn't want to see it become a thing that they do, and despite it being slightly jarring, it was ultimately better than being confused about what was happening when at certain points.

That initial reveal of Rick & Co at the walker quarry at the start of the episode was epic! :cool:

[DayoftheZ]

Another one here who didn't like the time hop / colour change thing. I can see why they did it, but I sent the first ten minutes trying to work out if my TV was broken/Fox had a fault/or if I had missed an episode. I found the whole thing so distracting I missed some of the early action. I also think they are skirting a fine line with Rick and he is coming across as a bad guy (almost like the governor) and Morgan and Michonne see the potential problem with him. The whole taking Pete out with the trash thing isn't what I would expect of Rick Grimes, he was afterall a husband and father and a funeral should be for the family not the dead.

The Walker scenes were top drawer as was said above a real Living Dead fans wet dream. I also liked how they dealt with Sasha / Abe and Glenn and Nicholas. Heath looks like he is going to be a great character but with the new characters I hope we don't lose the likes of Maggie, Aaron, Tara and Rosita into the crowd. Even Carl was conspicuous by his absence.

Overall a great season opener and I cant wait until next week.

[shootemindehead]

It looks like an editing decision tough. I'd say it was shot in relative sequence, but due to time constraints, a decision was made to do the back'n'forth/black'n'white malarkey. That episode looked like there was enough material for a true 90 minute + episode and felt like their was some serious, heavy duty, cutting going on. It's probably more to do with me. When films and TV shows start doing that crap, I start looking for the cracks.

It's the only niggle I have with opener, although I think Andrew Lincoln needs to tone it down a little bit. Nobody can argue with the amount of zombie goodness going on and Morgan's back...yaaay.

[slayerized]

Another one here who didn't like the time hop / colour change thing. I can see why they did it, but I sent the first ten minutes trying to work out if my TV was broken/Fox had a fault/or if I had missed an episode.

Exactly! I thought the very same thing - Thought my TV was messed up -- Especially considering that some of those scenes were shown in the previews in color!

[MinionZombie]

Well the trailer showed them in colour as they were filmed that way, and it wouldn't make sense to do the B/W thing within the comic-con trailer. The reason for it wouldn't make sense until seeing the premiere - and perhaps at that stage they hadn't decided what they were going to do. Nicotero said they'd thought of other options for differentiating the past/present, until finally opting for B/W.

There is a moment in the initial shot (before it goes to black and Rick starts talking) where the colour bleeds out of the shot and it turns black and white. Perhaps if we'd been able to linger just a few seconds longer on that colour shot (to then really see the colour bleed out of it) then it might not have tripped up some folks.

As for the theory of a late in the game editing decision to cut the episode in the back/forth style ... I'm not convinced. It's possible to make a big change like that in the editing room, but we've heard no rumours about any such decision being made have we? Any talk of reconfiguring the premiere? I'd be surprised if that was the case. Nor did it feel like there were bits cut out of it - major bits anyway. There could be some stuff, but it felt okay to me.

As for Carl - we did get a single shot with him in it - he climbs a tower to hang out with his new lady friend (as some other kid looks on from below - I figured a love triangle sorta thing was going to come into play here between Carl and Edith, going on a shot or two from the Comic Con trailer). There's a huge amount of characters to work with, so it's amazing Gimple & Co handled it quite well. Sure, some of them get very little to do - but it's gonna happen. I doubt we'll get short-changed with big hitters like Maggie, but it will be a considerable juggling act ... however, with a herd like that heading for Alexandria, I reckon they're gonna have to die a shedload more graves pretty soon. I think the expanded cast is gonna shrink. :elol:

[shootemindehead]

As for the theory of a late in the game editing decision to cut the episode in the back/forth style ... I'm not convinced. It's possible to make a big change like that in the editing room, but we've heard no rumours about any such decision being made have we? Any talk of reconfiguring the premiere? I'd be surprised if that was the case. Nor did it feel like there were bits cut out of it - major bits anyway. There could be some stuff, but it felt okay to me.

I don't mean it was a decision taken late in the day. I meant that the decision was taken to edit the episode in such a way, because they probably had way too much footage for their allotted time, to run it linearly, or relatively linearly. The actual decision could have been taken long before the editing room got in on the game.

Either way, it feels awkward.

[Moon Knight]

I don't get it, I knew immediately what was going on and what the black and white scenes represented. Didn't bother me at all. In fact, it was pretty clever imo and also seconded as a cool homage to the source material. Now, if they continue this for the rest of the season then I'll have a problem with it. As a stand alone premier, I think they pulled it off beautifully.

[JDP]

Had it not been for the walkers sneaking through (and then the ruddy truck crumbling off the cliff) then yeah, some kind of huge fire or something could have been an option. Then again, the walkers might not be the most flammable ... but if they'd had time they could have somehow masterminded a giant zombie bonfire and melted all the sods together into one giant mass, muahahahaaaaa. :elol: Mind you, that'd create a massive smoke cloud and potentially attract more walkers or nefarious sorts.

I was thinking the same. If the zombies are not dried up and flammable enough, then use gallons and gallons of any flammable liquid you can find other than gasoline (too useful and increasingly scarce to waste on killing zombies.) I am sure that there would be many hardware stores around that would have plenty of gallons of paint thinners, turpentine, lighter fluid, paint/varnish removers and stuff like that. Unlike kerosene, which has other uses, including fuel for some types of generators, these flammable liquids have no other common use other than what they are sold for, so most survivors would not be very interested in looting things like paint thinners, there would be plenty of the stuff around. Once you have poured gallons of the stuff down the quarry, toss a couple of lit molotov cocktails down there and watch the huge zombie pyre. It sure as heck would be less risky than trying to "herd" such a horde.

[Neil]

I must say everytime I was watching Sasha and Abraham in the car, slowly driving along just 10ft in front of 2000 zombies, I was waiting for their car to stall/break down! If it had, they'd have been buried in zombies in 5 seconds! Seemed a bit of an accident waiting to happen!

I must admit I didn't quite understand why our heroes had to risk themselves running along through the woods next to the horde? Indeed, now a good lump of the horde are heading in a long wide offensive line from the road towards Alexandria, if the road is quite close, our friends might find themselves swamped (out-flanked) if they can't get around its fences quickly...

And has no one asked yet who is sounding the horn? Gabriel (the priest)? The son?




Once you have poured gallons of the stuff down the quarry, toss a couple of lit molotov cocktails down there and watch the huge zombie pyre. It sure as heck would be less risky than trying to "herd" such a horde.
Yeh, I was wondering the same thing... But I guess that wouldn't be so interesting to watch :)

[MinionZombie]

I don't get it, I knew immediately what was going on and what the black and white scenes represented. Didn't bother me at all. In fact, it was pretty clever imo and also seconded as a cool homage to the source material. Now, if they continue this for the rest of the season then I'll have a problem with it. As a stand alone premier, I think they pulled it off beautifully.

Ah! A like-minded fellow! Agreed across the board.


I was thinking the same. If the zombies are not dried up and flammable enough, then use gallons and gallons of any flammable liquid you can find other than gasoline (too useful and increasingly scarce to waste on killing zombies.) I am sure that there would be many hardware stores around that would have plenty of gallons of paint thinners, turpentine, lighter fluid, paint/varnish removers and stuff like that. Unlike kerosene, which has other uses, including fuel for some types of generators, these flammable liquids have no other common use other than what they are sold for, so most survivors would not be very interested in looting things like paint thinners, there would be plenty of the stuff around. Once you have poured gallons of the stuff down the quarry, toss a couple of lit molotov cocktails down there and watch the huge zombie pyre. It sure as heck would be less risky than trying to "herd" such a horde.

I think in that scenario you'd have to soak 'em and light 'em up as quickly as possible - otherwise the fluid would soak into the ground and not work as well (or at all?). So, I definitely like the idea of turps etc - but you could see about pinching a Fire Truck and pour all the flammable junk into the tank and hose the walkers down, and then set them on fire as they're still dripping wet. :elol::cool::elol:

In an ideal apocalypse you could do something like that, but as Rick thought correctly - the quarry was weak with rain, so that truck perched on the edge was going to come down sooner or later. However, if that part of the quarry had been reinforced before the apocalypse then they would have had the time. Particularly if they backed up another vehicle to block off the tiny gaps between the truck trailers that were letting out a few stragglers.

To be sure, it wouldn't be without risks, but if the area had been more secure it's something they could have done. Unfortunately time, nor quarry stability, wasn't on their side.


I must admit I didn't quite understand why our heroes had to risk themselves running along through the woods next to the horde? Indeed, now a good lump of the horde are heading in a long wide offensive line from the road towards Alexandria, if the road is quite close, our friends might find themselves swamped (out-flanked) if they can't get around its fences quickly...

Because they couldn't make any sound. The walker herd had to be unified behind one sound and moving image - the car and the bike - any anything else caused a distraction (e.g. the silver foil wrap thingy stuck in the tree that Abraham snatched away to stop that splinter group). Hidden within the tree line they could observe what was going on up close and relatively safe (shock horns not permitting). They had a good view, but also coverage (see how dense the leaves seemed from the road, as compared to being within the woods). They couldn't use vehicles as they'd make sound and it'd be a distraction (just like at that tractor shop).

[Neil]

Ah! A like-minded fellow! Agreed across the board.



I think in that scenario you'd have to soak 'em and light 'em up as quickly as possible - otherwise the fluid would soak into the ground and not work as well (or at all?). So, I definitely like the idea of turps etc - but you could see about pinching a Fire Truck and pour all the flammable junk into the tank and hose the walkers down, and then set them on fire as they're still dripping wet. :elol::cool::elol:

In an ideal apocalypse you could do something like that, but as Rick thought correctly - the quarry was weak with rain, so that truck perched on the edge was going to come down sooner or later. However, if that part of the quarry had been reinforced before the apocalypse then they would have had the time. Particularly if they backed up another vehicle to block off the tiny gaps between the truck trailers that were letting out a few stragglers.

To be sure, it wouldn't be without risks, but if the area had been more secure it's something they could have done. Unfortunately time, nor quarry stability, wasn't on their side.



Because they couldn't make any sound. The walker herd had to be unified behind one sound and moving image - the car and the bike - any anything else caused a distraction (e.g. the silver foil wrap thingy stuck in the tree that Abraham snatched away to stop that splinter group). Hidden within the tree line they could observe what was going on up close and relatively safe (shock horns not permitting). They had a good view, but also coverage (see how dense the leaves seemed from the road, as compared to being within the woods). They couldn't use vehicles as they'd make sound and it'd be a distraction (just like at that tractor shop).

No, I just mean why run along through the woods risking the very thing that happened in the end... one of them getting attacked. I guess Abraham at the front dealing with some being attracted by the foil is a good example, but how would our heros back along the horde have dealt with exactly the same scenario? They couldn't have... They'd risk attracting even more away?

[shootemindehead]

I must say everytime I was watching Sasha and Abraham in the car, slowly driving along just 10ft in front of 2000 zombies, I was waiting for their car to stall/break down! If it had, they'd have been buried in zombies in 5 seconds! Seemed a bit of an accident waiting to happen!

Well, considering TWD's penchant for vehicular accidents, I wouldn't have been the slightest bit surprised if Sasha went careering off into a tree or something.

[Doc]

Eh, this was ok. Walking Dead openings are usually some of the best, but this one was a letdown compared to Gimple's interesting "30 Days without an Accident" and tense "No Sanctuary". It had some of the usual Walking Dead melodrama that was crap (that stuff with Pete's son) and some questionable choices (why not just bury Pete a few feet from the gate and not risk traveling far?).

I still liked it better than that awful Season Two opening.

[Neil]

Come on then? Who's behind that horn?

[Moon Knight]

Come on then? Who's behind that horn?

My guess? The wolves attack Alexandria and a driver gets shot in the head forcing his slumped head to press the vehicle's horn uncontrollably. I just don't see a group member doing that.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, who's to say it's even the Wolves to begin with? That's the obvious choice and I have a feeling it's gonna be a bit more complex than that.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, it would be a bit obvious if it was Father Wobbly or the son of the guy Rick killed.

[DayoftheZ]

It’s got to be the Wolves hasn’t it but it could be Erin. I doubt Ron would risk doing something so reckless when his mum and brother are inside and Gabriel admitted he was wrong so it wouldn’t make sense him doing it either.

If they are going down the wildcard rout maybe Carol is giving Alexandria the ultimate test of metal!!

[Neil]

Yeh, it would be a bit obvious if it was Father Wobbly or the son of the guy Rick killed.

I agree... But I run out of ideas there, unless it is the Wolves?

[Buzzbomb]

The Alexandrian's presumably don't know that the plan to clear the quarry has had to be brought forward (ie. Rick & Co. were on a dry run when the trailer gave way)... so perhaps Deanna or any of the townsfolk are just raising the alarm to get Rick & Co to come back to town - which they might do if the town was under attack by the wolves?

I guess everyone spotted Rick saying the same lines Morgan said to him in the very first show... but did Rick repeat something Shane once said about not being cut-out for the world as it is now & therefore pretty much dead already?

[Neil]

The Alexandrian's presumably don't know that the plan to clear the quarry has had to be brought forward (ie. Rick & Co. were on a dry run when the trailer gave way)... so perhaps Deanna or any of the townsfolk are just raising the alarm to get Rick & Co to come back to town - which they might do if the town was under attack by the wolves?

I guess everyone spotted Rick saying the same lines Morgan said to him in the very first show... but did Rick repeat something Shane once said about not being cut-out for the world as it is now & therefore pretty much dead already?They had walkie talkies (so could talk to Alexandria)?

And why not 2-3 cars in the front... using their horns to keep the zombies' attention?

[Moon Knight]

Not to get off topic, but anyone else think Enid is somehow connected to the Wolves? Maybe she left that warning note in the car Daryl and Aaron were in?

[JDP]

I think in that scenario you'd have to soak 'em and light 'em up as quickly as possible - otherwise the fluid would soak into the ground and not work as well (or at all?). So, I definitely like the idea of turps etc - but you could see about pinching a Fire Truck and pour all the flammable junk into the tank and hose the walkers down, and then set them on fire as they're still dripping wet.

In an ideal apocalypse you could do something like that, but as Rick thought correctly - the quarry was weak with rain, so that truck perched on the edge was going to come down sooner or later. However, if that part of the quarry had been reinforced before the apocalypse then they would have had the time. Particularly if they backed up another vehicle to block off the tiny gaps between the truck trailers that were letting out a few stragglers.

To be sure, it wouldn't be without risks, but if the area had been more secure it's something they could have done. Unfortunately time, nor quarry stability, wasn't on their side.

They seemed to have had enough time to plan the whole thing and build the walls for the route they wanted to lead the zombies through, so they probably would have had enough time to gather plenty of flammables instead.

If you don't have a fire truck around to use your proposition of spraying the flammables, and the ground of the quarry is very absorbent and you are afraid that the flammable liquids will be absorbed too fast before you can light them on fire, then you could apply of couple of solutions:

1- Thicken the flammable liquids with other flammable things that are more viscous, like oils (hardware stores have lots of lindseed oil), so that they are not absorbed as fast

2- Dampen the ground first by pouring water. Flammable liquids like petroleum hydrocarbons and essential oils like turpentine are lighter than water and do not mix with it, so that would slow down the rate of absorption

Another method of delivery of the flammable liquids, in case you don't have a fire truck around, and don't want to pour them down the quarry either, would be to gather enough empty glass or ceramic containers, or even rubber balloons, all of which I would think there would be plenty of laying around, fill them with the flammables and start tossing them down the quarry so that they smash and spray the contents around. Once you have soaked the area with flammables (including the zombies) then throw in a couple of lit molotov cocktails.

[Buzzbomb]

They had walkie talkies (so could talk to Alexandria)?

And why not 2-3 cars in the front... using their horns to keep the zombies' attention?

They had 3x walkies at least - but as Rick told Morgan to relay the news of Carter's demise to Alexandria, I'm guessing all the walkies they did have were out in the field.

I had also originally thought that Alexandria would have been out of range - but I was wrong there - Deanna refers to the site as being only a few miles out & Ron was pretty much able to make it on foot to the quarry in roughly the same time as Rick & Morgan did in the car...

Yeah - I'd wondered too why they didn't have a sound system in the cars - like Merle so memorably did (or Aidan/Eugene did in the van)... I guess it wouldn't have sat nicely with the soundtrack.

The line I thought Rick recycled from Shane was on the porch when talking about Carter with Morgan:-"Somebody like that, they're gonna die no matter what"? Did Shane say that??

Also - just an observation - setting those 1000x zombies 20 miles out on the route north.... that doesn't seem like a terribly good plan. It could easily wipe out other settlements & just as easily they could change direction at some point in the future and wind up biting Alexandria in the arse.

Could Nicholas or the 3x people Deanna exiled be behind the airhorn?

[Doc]

I agree... But I run out of ideas there, unless it is the Wolves?


The Wolves certainly didn't seem above letting Walkers do their dirty work so, it's a possibility.

In fact, I'm rather bother they didn't even mention them. Shouldn't they be careful of a group of hostiles that might've been nearby?

[sandrock74]

I don't think burning the zombies in the quarry is as easy as it seems everyone thinks. For one, you'd need a LOT of flammable liquid, which is far better to conserve for other purposes and you'd get the zombies all riled up from them seeing people and hearing the noise that would inevitably be made. The trucks wouldn't have been able to hold back all those zombies pushing in one direction to get at their perceived food. Then, once the zombies are lit on fire, you'd have to wait for them to actually burn/melt enough to become dead (again). They can still walk around and come after you while they are roasting. Like the old joke says, "What's worse than being chased by zombies? Being chased by zombies on fire". Can you imagine if a bunch of zombies on fire spread out into the woods??

I think the plan they had wasn't bad considering their options, people involved and tools on hand. The old Pied Piper routine worked! It was only the horn blowing (which, I think we all know isn't accidental) that ruined things. Once Daryl and Sasha/Abraham led the zombies to the 20 mile point - or wherever they determined - they could easily race off into the distance and circle around far enough away out of sight and earshot of the undead horde. Not being too smart, the horde would just keep going "that way" westward.

The only bad point I can find with the plan is that you're most likely making this super mega horde someone else's problem at some later point. Chances are you're essentially condemning people to a gory demise. I would hate to have that hanging over my head like the proverbial sword of Damocles, but in the world of TWD, you don't have the luxury of thinking too far ahead, just react to the immediate threats.

Of course, for all Rick and crew know, there could be another zombie horde coming at them from the north or south because of similar actions by some other group of survivors!

[JDP]

I don't think burning the zombies in the quarry is as easy as it seems everyone thinks. For one, you'd need a LOT of flammable liquid, which is far better to conserve for other purposes and you'd get the zombies all riled up from them seeing people and hearing the noise that would inevitably be made. The trucks wouldn't have been able to hold back all those zombies pushing in one direction to get at their perceived food. Then, once the zombies are lit on fire, you'd have to wait for them to actually burn/melt enough to become dead (again). They can still walk around and come after you while they are roasting. Like the old joke says, "What's worse than being chased by zombies? Being chased by zombies on fire". Can you imagine if a bunch of zombies on fire spread out into the woods??

I think the plan they had wasn't bad considering their options, people involved and tools on hand. The old Pied Piper routine worked! It was only the horn blowing (which, I think we all know isn't accidental) that ruined things. Once Daryl and Sasha/Abraham led the zombies to the 20 mile point - or wherever they determined - they could easily race off into the distance and circle around far enough away out of sight and earshot of the undead horde. Not being too smart, the horde would just keep going "that way" westward.

The only bad point I can find with the plan is that you're most likely making this super mega horde someone else's problem at some later point. Chances are you're essentially condemning people to a gory demise. I would hate to have that hanging over my head like the proverbial sword of Damocles, but in the world of TWD, you don't have the luxury of thinking too far ahead, just react to the immediate threats.

Of course, for all Rick and crew know, there could be another zombie horde coming at them from the north or south because of similar actions by some other group of survivors!

There's so many things that can go wrong trying to keep such a large amount of zombies on the right path, that any other solution seems less risky.

If there are many hardware stores (think all the Home Depots, Lowes, Ace/Sears Hardwares, etc.) around that area there would not seem to be too much trouble finding flammable liquids. Remember that we are not talking about gasoline or kerosene or diesel, which can be used for many other purposes, but flammable liquids that most people would not really have much of an interest in looting, things like paint/varnish thinners/removers. There should be plenty of the stuff around since few people would have a use for such things anymore, survivors would be busy trying to find essential supplies and would not care about carrying non-essential stuff like this.

Another possible solution, and also less risky than trying to make a horde of zombies follow you for miles: since this happens to be a quarry, there should be a large amount of explosives around. If they are stored outside of the area where the zombies are confined, and if you can gain access to this storage place (it will likely be locked down), then you can blast the zombies to smithereens. If the workers were using dynamite-like explosives, just toss the full crates down the quarry (explosives used for commercial blasting operations are quite insensitive to shock, it takes a blasting cap/detonator to set them off, so the shock from falling down the quarry won't set them off) and finally using ropes lower the last crate with a blasting cap placed inside one of the sticks of dynamite and a fuse long enough for you to get out in time before the whole thing goes off. If they were using ANFO type explosives just drop the sacks down the quarry and then lower the last sack with a detonator inside and a long fuse. Or if they were using electric detonators (which is more likely in this day and age) then wire the last crate/sack with the electric detonator inside, lower it down the quarry and then go to a safe distance and set it off with an electric current via the wires. Whatever few zombies manage to survive the blast, falling rocks and landslides you can take care of one by one to finish the job.

[DayoftheZ]

The Wolves certainly didn't seem above letting Walkers do their dirty work so, it's a possibility.

In fact, I'm rather bother they didn't even mention them. Shouldn't they be careful of a group of hostiles that might've been nearby?

Rick and Daryl did very briefly mention them in one of the black and white scenes. They were discussing both Morgan’s and Daryl’s run ins with the men with W etched on their foreheads, “like the walker outside”

I kind of disagree with the explosives or walker fire thing, it would be equally if not more risky than talking the Walkers for ……… well a walk. Plus you have the addition risk of a smoke signal or noise attracting more walkers or worse still the real threat which is the living.

What I don’t understand is why team Rick didn’t make a plan to try and split the pack up a little bit more to spread the risk as much as possible. The walkers kept trying to split up anyway so why not take them to a cross roads of some kind on the street and split them. I know that would take more man power but you have plenty of capable people back at the safe zone twiddling their thumbs. Taking this route would have diluted the impact that the alarm is so obviously going to have.

[JDP]

I kind of disagree with the explosives or walker fire thing, it would be equally if not more risky than talking the Walkers for ……… well a walk. Plus you have the addition risk of a smoke signal or noise attracting more walkers or worse still the real threat which is the living.

More things can go wrong if you tried to make them follow you for miles. For example, your vehicle could break down, you could run into another group of zombies straight ahead (making you the "meat" in this zombie sandwich), or run into another group of survivors and all hell would break loose when they see an army of zombies coming their way (you would be caught right in the middle of it), some of the zombies could get distracted by other things and start walking in different directions, etc. A lot of unpredictable stuff could happen in this scenario. But attempting to burn or blast the zombies would not be as risky. As long as they are confined inside the quarry it is them who are at a disadvantage. You can freely move around them without them being able to get you, while you can keep bombarding them with flammables and/or explosives from on top, they are screwed!

As for other zombies hearing the noise and shuffling their way to the quarry, it would no longer matter much because after you have eliminated the ones that are trapped you can move the trucks, that way they won't be able to get trapped in the quarry anymore. The problem is that they have been accumulating for a long time down there, so that's what you want to avoid from happening again.


What I don’t understand is why team Rick didn’t make a plan to try and split the pack up a little bit more to spread the risk as much as possible. The walkers kept trying to split up anyway so why not take them to a cross roads of some kind on the street and split them. I know that would take more man power but you have plenty of capable people back at the safe zone twiddling their thumbs. Taking this route would have diluted the impact that the alarm is so obviously going to have.

Because they could end up heading to Alexandria again, which is what they are trying to avoid. They want to take them to a place where the zombies likely won't find their way back.

[MinionZombie]

Could Nicholas or the 3x people Deanna exiled be behind the airhorn?

Nicholas hasn't been exiled, but yeah, that could be a possibility - Alexandrian exiles. Hadn't thought of that.

On another topic, yeah, I think Enid is somehow connected to The Wolves ... or at the very least an exile, who themselves could be linked up with The Wolves. Murky things going on in them thar woods... :shifty:

[Buzzbomb]

Before the lorry/trailer gave way, they had another option to deal with the quarry walkers... ie. if they'd used some of their metal walling expertise they could have created a route for the walkers to follow - which would have lead them back over the cliff edge - the fall would have been enough to incapacitate them with broken bones/smashed skulls.... or created a controlable flow of walkers which could be terminated on a production line type scale.

It seems to me that the quarry is an excellent walker trap and an added line of defence for Alexandria - like the walker pits we've seen in previous series' but on obviously a much grander scale. Assuming that things don't go completely tits up in the next few episodes, they'd do well to make clearing the quarry a regular walker chore.

Nice to see Enid & Carl holding hands on the roof... playing with a lighter at night probably not such a good idea though, given the wolves may be out there?

[slayerized]

Before the lorry/trailer gave way, they had another option to deal with the quarry walkers... ie. if they'd used some of their metal walling expertise they could have created a route for the walkers to follow - which would have lead them back over the cliff edge - the fall would have been enough to incapacitate them with broken bones/smashed skulls.... or created a controlable flow of walkers which could be terminated on a production line type scale.

It seems to me that the quarry is an excellent walker trap and an added line of defence for Alexandria - like the walker pits we've seen in previous series' but on obviously a much grander scale. Assuming that things don't go completely tits up in the next few episodes, they'd do well to make clearing the quarry a regular walker chore.

Nice to see Enid & Carl holding hands on the roof... playing with a lighter at night probably not such a good idea though, given the wolves may be out there?

They had plenty of time to line up vehicles and build fences to corral the walkers on their path out of town...they should have focused on blocking them in the quarry permanently...they could have moved dozens of vehicles, sandbags etc in to fortify the 2 trucks at the bottom of the quarry -- make it an impassable barrier and then the road leading out the top - they should have just collapsed it ahead of the trucks so that any walkers that got past the trucks would just fall back into the quarry...

[facestabber]

Not to get off topic, but anyone else think Enid is somehow connected to the Wolves? Maybe she left that warning note in the car Daryl and Aaron were in?

I haven't trusted Enid since she was introduced. She is suspect. My first thought was that she is connected to the Wolves. But what are the wolves waiting for? And the show made it a point to show the wolves discovering the photos of Alexandria. Not that we saw their reaction but I read it as Alexandria was new to them. I could be wrong though.

Kudos Buzzbomb on your thoughts on the quarry. Im in the keep em there camp. The metal walls could have been better built to funnel them back down. My first thought was using some of that farm equip to excavate ditches beyond the semi trailer barriers which would force them back down the pit. In the end, blocking their exit seems far easier than that march. Too many things can go wrong.

The horn thing is bothering me. The writers really like messing with us.

[shootemindehead]

I don't think burning the zombies in the quarry is as easy as it seems everyone thinks. For one, you'd need a LOT of flammable liquid, which is far better to conserve for other purposes and you'd get the zombies all riled up from them seeing people and hearing the noise that would inevitably be made.

Plus, the resulting fire from 1000's of burning zombies would be seen from miles away, bringing all sorts of unwanted attention, both alive and dead.

[JDP]

They had plenty of time to line up vehicles and build fences to corral the walkers on their path out of town...they should have focused on blocking them in the quarry permanently...they could have moved dozens of vehicles, sandbags etc in to fortify the 2 trucks at the bottom of the quarry -- make it an impassable barrier and then the road leading out the top - they should have just collapsed it ahead of the trucks so that any walkers that got past the trucks would just fall back into the quarry...

That would be a temporary solution. The problem is that the zombies already trapped at the quarry keep attracting more zombies, they fall in and can't get out. So it gradually keeps on filling up. Unless you empty it from time to time, there will be so many of them that they will start to be able to climb up either the walls or the trucks blocking the exits. It might take a long time to happen, but it will eventually happen.

[Moon Knight]

I haven't trusted Enid since she was introduced. She is suspect. My first thought was that she is connected to the Wolves. But what are the wolves waiting for? And the show made it a point to show the wolves discovering the photos of Alexandria. Not that we saw their reaction but I read it as Alexandria was new to them. I could be wrong though.

Kudos Buzzbomb on your thoughts on the quarry. Im in the keep em there camp. The metal walls could have been better built to funnel them back down. My first thought was using some of that farm equip to excavate ditches beyond the semi trailer barriers which would force them back down the pit. In the end, blocking their exit seems far easier than that march. Too many things can go wrong.

The horn thing is bothering me. The writers really like messing with us.

I don't think she's with them but perhaps her parents or friends/group were killed by them prior to her arriving at the gates of Alexandria.

[Buzzbomb]

That would be a temporary solution. The problem is that the zombies already trapped at the quarry keep attracting more zombies, they fall in and can't get out. So it gradually keeps on filling up. Unless you empty it from time to time, there will be so many of them that they will start to be able to climb up either the walls or the trucks blocking the exits. It might take a long time to happen, but it will eventually happen.

But they wouldn't survive a fall - the one's entering the quarry were sliding down a slope, so were still mobile, but if driven over a cliff edge they would be incapacitated or killed. Granted there would still be the need to control the flow and dispose of the bodies, but it would be easier to manage.

I don't think the walkers are capable of climbing - unlike the Brad Pitt version :clown:

[babomb]

This episode was fantastic! Dealing with those walkers like that was like something straight out of my own head. I'd say it was the best episode since "Clear" IMO.

[JDP]

But they wouldn't survive a fall - the one's entering the quarry were sliding down a slope, so were still mobile, but if driven over a cliff edge they would be incapacitated or killed. Granted there would still be the need to control the flow and dispose of the bodies, but it would be easier to manage.

I don't think the walkers are capable of climbing - unlike the Brad Pitt version :clown:

The zombies in this series can climb. Look at season 1 when some of them were climbing up the construction site fence and the tank. Enough of them piled up against an obstacle like a wall, fence or vehicle and sooner or later they will be able to climb up.

[Moon Knight]

The zombies in this series can climb. Look at season 1 when some of them were climbing up the construction site fence and the tank. Enough of them piled up against an obstacle like a wall, fence or vehicle and sooner or later they will be able to climb up.

That was a Darabont thing. He also had them use tools like the rocks to break the windows. Kirkman axed that I believe.

Also, about the horn, what if it is a fellow Alexandria member sounding it off to alert the group back for reinforcements as they are attacked? Remember, to Alexandria, it was supposed to be a dry run. They have no idea the shit hit the fan.

[sandrock74]

Also, about the horn, what if it is a fellow Alexandria member sounding it off to alert the group back for reinforcements as they are attacked? Remember, to Alexandria, it was supposed to be a dry run. They have no idea the shit hit the fan.

Huh. Good idea, Moony! I hadn't thought of that. I guess the town wouldn't have known the plan went into effect 24 hours early!

[babomb]

I was puzzled at first by the sudden change to grayscale also. I thought maybe it was my buzz at the time. But the AMC logo was in color.

[zomtom]

If I'm not mistaken, Alexandria is only going to get hit by the second half of the herd. The first half had already passed by before the horn sounded. They were out of range and are still following Daryl, Sasha and Abraham. Even though the town is going to get hit by a shitload of walkers, it's better than the full load from the quarry.

[MinionZombie]

Plus, the resulting fire from 1000's of burning zombies would be seen from miles away, bringing all sorts of unwanted attention, both alive and dead.

A considerable downside to the burning options, I must admit.


That would be a temporary solution. The problem is that the zombies already trapped at the quarry keep attracting more zombies.

There's significant downsides to any option chosen, that's the bugger of the situation. There's various ways you could deal with it, but all of them have their challenges and downsides.


I don't think she's with them but perhaps her parents or friends/group were killed by them prior to her arriving at the gates of Alexandria.

Ooh! An intriguing possibility. Yes, she does seem to be a bit of an orphan. Either that or her folks/guardian were exiled ... in which case they might have joined The Wolves post-exile.


The zombies in this series can climb. Look at season 1 when some of them were climbing up the construction site fence and the tank. Enough of them piled up against an obstacle like a wall, fence or vehicle and sooner or later they will be able to climb up.

I don't think they'd be able to climb up the side of the quarry at all - just look at how some of them were crushed and splattered when the herd hit that turn in the road that they'd fashioned - the weight of the herd crushed a number of them against the steel wall, and then underfoot. There's no chance they'd physically climb on each other. About the closest you'd get to that would be a growing carpet of walkers underfoot - but you'd have to wait years for that to happen for such a high cliff face. As for the fence climbers in season 1 - a decided mistake on everyone's part - thank GAR they got rid of that shit idea thereafter. That's a moment in Season 1 that really jars and grates for me - it would have been better if the fence buckled at the join and let a few walkers seep through.

I don't mind them using 'tools' necessarily (e.g. smashing the windows in the department store in S1), but I understand Kirkman wanting to extract that aspect of 'reasoning' that is so linked to GAR's undead.


Also, about the horn, what if it is a fellow Alexandria member sounding it off to alert the group back for reinforcements as they are attacked? Remember, to Alexandria, it was supposed to be a dry run. They have no idea the shit hit the fan.

Yes, another possibility. The Alexandrians have been very secretive, so they might have enemies that they know about but haven't revealed - or - The Wolves have found the place. Yes, I'd forgotten that they found those pictures (it did seem like they didn't know about Alexandria - and IIRC that location was about 50 miles away from Alexandria).


If I'm not mistaken, Alexandria is only going to get hit by the second half of the herd. The first half had already passed by before the horn sounded. They were out of range and are still following Daryl, Sasha and Abraham. Even though the town is going to get hit by a shitload of walkers, it's better than the full load from the quarry.

Perhaps, but that horn is flippin' loud, so I think the rest of the walkers could very easily be dragged away. I doubt the bike and car would keep going once they figure out the herd has moved away behind them and is heading straight for Alexandria. Nail biting stuff!!! :eek:

[JDP]

I don't think they'd be able to climb up the side of the quarry at all - just look at how some of them were crushed and splattered when the herd hit that turn in the road that they'd fashioned - the weight of the ground crushed a number of them against the steel wall, and then underfoot. There's no chance they'd physically climb on each other. About the closest you'd get to that would be a growing carpet of walkers underfoot - but you'd have to wait years for that to happen for such a high cliff face. As for the fence climbers in season 1 - a decided mistake on everyone's part - thank GAR they got rid of that shit idea thereafter. That's a moment in Season 1 that really jars and grates for me - it would have been better if the fence buckled at the join and let a few walkers seep through.

I don't mind them using 'tools' necessarily (e.g. smashing the windows in the department store in S1), but I understand Kirkman wanting to extract that aspect of 'reasoning' that is so linked to GAR's undead.

The cliff wall is too high, but they might be able to make it up the side of the roads that are blocked by the trucks, and up the trucks themselves as well.

That the zombies have not completely lost their ability to climb up can be seen in one of the prison episodes, when many of them were pushing against a section of the fence and it started to tip. Some of the zombies are clearly climbing up the fence:

http://muleskinner.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/96b32eba-ce71-48d3-df94-83c682cc1acc_TWD_402_GP_0520_0431.jpg

So all you need is for them to get a bit of an inclined plane to be able to start climbing up to higher levels. Walkers piling up against an obstacle could provide such an inclined platform.

Another thing that we have seen the zombies in this series do is to crawl under obstacles. So a good question to ask is why haven't the quarry zombies simply crawled under the trucks blocking the exits?

I am not sure what you mean by the "weight of the ground". The zombies that got smashed against the wall it was because there were so many other zombies behind them pushing forward that they gained too much momentum. Had the herd been smaller that probably would not have happened. In any event, dead walkers for whatever reason would start piling up and make it easier for the other coming zombies to have a platform to stand on and reach higher.

[MinionZombie]

I am not sure what you mean by the "weight of the ground".

Meant to type "weight of the herd". :o

[babomb]

There is actually alot of things that could be done to deal with the situation. The preparation alone would be extremely long and dull though, not good for a TV show. Everyone in the group should be creating a central, shared knowledgebase. Not only is it extremely helpful to have information relating to your survival, but it creates a purpose for people which boosts morale. You'll never get anywhere if everyone feels defeated.

[Staredge]

Fire truck deck guns push water out at 350+ gpm. Engines hold 350-500 gallons in the internal tank. How much of the quarry could you cover in a minute? How many gallons of a non-specified flammable liquid are you going to be able to find in the nearby area? Add to that the explosive limits of whatever you're spraying. Fuels have to mix at a certain ratio with air. This defines the upper and lower explosive limits. If you have ANY heat source nearby that is within that range, you've got an ignition source. Spraying flammable liquids puts an awful lot of vapor in the air, and if it lights off it will ignite everything in a big giant fireball. Think Carol and Terminus, except it's going to burn vapor all the way back to the dispersal point (under your feet).

[JDP]

Fire truck deck guns push water out at 350+ gpm. Engines hold 350-500 gallons in the internal tank. How much of the quarry could you cover in a minute? How many gallons of a non-specified flammable liquid are you going to be able to find in the nearby area? Add to that the explosive limits of whatever you're spraying. Fuels have to mix at a certain ratio with air. This defines the upper and lower explosive limits. If you have ANY heat source nearby that is within that range, you've got an ignition source. Spraying flammable liquids puts an awful lot of vapor in the air, and if it lights off it will ignite everything in a big giant fireball. Think Carol and Terminus, except it's going to burn vapor all the way back to the dispersal point (under your feet).

Paint thinners and the like are not that volatile, it will take several hours for them to evaporate. They are not like acetone or concentrated alcohol, which will evaporate in minutes. Plenty of time for delivering the flammables and igniting them before any dangerous air-fuel mix develops. And even if you were afraid of such a thing happening, you can simply ignite the zombie pit via cables and a battery at a safe distance.

The point of the flammables is not to cause an explosion (which requires vaporization time to mix with the surrounding air) but to just burn the zombies. The explosion thing would be if you had access to the quarry explosives, which must be stored somewhere nearby (though maybe they stored them somewhere in the area where the zombies are trapped, so in such a case you could not try to gain access to them.)

The availability of flammable liquids like paint thinners would depend on how many hardware stores are around the area. Most places in America have hardware stores around, even in the more rural areas.

[babomb]

It would be safer to destroy the exits from the quarry. Wouldn't require that much explosive material for that. All you have to do is make it so they can't walk out. Then wall off the exits. If they're contained in the quarry then you can take your time killing them off. Smash em, burn em, shoot em, blow em up from the top rim of the quarry. Over a period of time.
You can't tell me not a single person in that group knows how to make crude explosives. It will draw a little attention at first, but it's already drawing attention. The more you kill the quieter the quarry gets.
Or build a funnel point, like in the cave in Day, so only a few can get through at a time. Then find or build a captive bolt pistol like the dr. had in FTWD. Or use a spear.
Burning them would be too chaotic to control.