TWD 6x05 "Now" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 6x05 "Now" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Avi Youabian
Written by: Corey Reed

[facestabber]

Kind of a meh episode. Not bad but not ground breaking. I think we all suspected Maggie was pregnant. So that reveal wasn't too shocking. I do however love Maggie and want to see more of her.(insert prego puns).

Again Riggs confirmed again he can't act. That fight scene looked horrible.

Was that whiny brat trying to bait Rick into going after Enid? I wasn't sure there.

Deanna is goofy as fuck too. What the hell does banging on a fence prove. Pure death awaits on the other side and it's just dumb to rile up those walkers.

[Harleydude666]

Kind of a meh episode. Not bad but not ground breaking. I think we all suspected Maggie was pregnant. So that reveal wasn't too shocking. I do however love Maggie and want to see more of her.(insert prego puns).

Again Riggs confirmed again he can't act. That fight scene looked horrible.

Was that whiny brat trying to bait Rick into going after Enid? I wasn't sure there.

Deanna is goofy as fuck too. What the hell does banging on a fence prove. Pure death awaits on the other side and it's just dumb to rile up those walkers.

This was an episode where it's a holding pattern story but also they are shoving some really terrible writing down our throats. That scene where Deanna's son rallying the troops to stick together at the food bank was cringe worthy. It reminded me so much of the scene where Andrea was rallying the troops at Woodbury when the people were down in the dumps. We need to get back to pragmatic writing for these characters and stop the preaching for crying out loud. There's enough going on in this story line where I feel we don't have to take a time out for a group hug every 15 minutes.

[MoonSylver]

Heh. What a cock tease. Another Sophia in the Barn. :lol:

[zomtom]

This was an okay episode. Nothing to write home about. I pretty much figured we aren't going to learn of Glenn's fate until the mid-season finale, so I wasn't disappointed in that regard. As for the blood dripping on the fence at the end of the episode? I'm thinking Spencer killed himself. He was up there doing watch duty.

[Doc]

Typical Walking Dead. Nothing happened. Again!

And everyone felt the need to tell their well prepared and 'inspiring speeches. Again!


I love how Rick wanted to not attract attention to Alexandria, but sets up a regular watch there, so there will always be live people in sight of the hungry dead. Apparently, the Alexandrians also ignore his advice as I see lights on at night, people talking, even people loudly arguing. Also, they were apparently plentiful with food in 'JSS', but now in dire need to preserve in this episode? They have fewer mouths to feed now so, I don't know how that makes sense.


That's just some of the things that bothered me.

I did like more Aaron screentime even though the subplot he was in was ridiculous. :-)

[JDP]

I love how Rick wanted to not attract attention to Alexandria, but sets up a regular watch there, so there will always be live people in sight of the hungry dead.

I think that for the moment being Rick has no choice but to do that. He is expecting the other members still outside of Alexandria to give some sort of sign that they are coming back or at least that they are still alive, so they have to be on the lookout for that possibility. After that situation is resolved, then they can implement the plan of being less conspicuous to the zombies outside.


Also, they were apparently plentiful with food in 'JSS', but now in dire need to preserve in this episode? They have fewer mouths to feed now so, I don't know how that makes sense.


Maybe some of the food got stolen or ruined during the Wolves' surprise raid. In any event, they always rationed food and supplies in Alexandria. Now that the survivors are more scared than ever and envision that they have their days numbered some of them are not happy with the rationing, and forgetting reason and common sense demand more. As the saying goes, "Living for today".

[sandrock74]

Something I noticed on the Talking Dead: Alexandra Breckinridge has her hair dyed. Aren't they still filming the end of the season? (Insert all crazy speculation here.)

The sewer zombies were awesome; truly gross! It was good to see more of Aaron and Maggie as it feels like we haven't seen them much this season. Also, with nightfall at the end of the episode, the one day all this seasons episodes have taken place in finally ends!

[MinionZombie]

Also, with nightfall at the end of the episode, the one day all this seasons episodes have taken place in finally ends!

Oh yeah ... four episodes worth of content in less than 24 hours in-show time. What an exhausting day!!!

So the todger tease over Glenn's fate continues! :mad: Yeah ... it's gonna be 6x07 or 6x08 when we finally find out what's going on. Considering the condensed time period it's entirely possible.

The sewer, or "sludge", walkers were AWESOME. Sooooooo gross when Maggie slid her hand/arm up inside that chest cavity ... proper rank, so it was!

A bit of a holding patten episode in a way, but it also gives us some time to handle a fair bit of character business. Deanna's on her way back from somnambulant town, Ron continues to be a shifty bastard, Denise+Tara, Rick+Jessie ... Spencer failing to lead by example in secret.

The speeches did irk me. There was like four in this episode - Rick, Aaron, Spencer, and Jessie ... although only Spencer's irked me generally as it was a bit too written, if that makes sense? I thought his drunken rant at Deanna felt more rough and in-the-moment, and it's good to see Alexandrians (Jessie and Spencer particularly) realising that Rick & Co were right, albeit reacting in very different ways. Although Spencer's speech didn't sit so well with me in how it played, I did like the purpose of it - those buggers all just digging in selfishly - they need some reality up in their face. They need to pull together. I get where they're coming from, but curling up in a sad ball with a twinkie or three shoved in your mouth isn't helping anybody - and good that Spencer laid out what he achieved during the Wolves' attack, while that other guy did three fifths of sod all.

Deanna banging on the fence - it's a sign of defiance - Reg's fence is still standing and it's like her way of saying F.U. to the walkers ... of course, the blood that seeps through at the very end is a sign - to me at least - that there's a weak spot. Guaranteed a section of that fence caves in - it's gotta happen - shit is most definitely going to hit the fan in a big, bad way.

Cool - but sad - to see that Betsy (wife of David from 6x03) killed herself. It's just a minor, fleeting story to us - but to those characters that's a huge tragedy.

The pus syringe moment made my skin crawl ... that's more what makes me cringe ... although, as I've said, those sludge walkers were ridiculously gross (and amazing).

I think Ron is up to something - he wants to kill Carl - and he hates Rick (he'll hate him even more now that Officer Friendly is getting fresh with his Mum) ... so I think Ron wants to learn to shoot so he can try and eff up Rick/Carl's day ... ... and I expect it to go badly wrong for the little bastard. :elol::D:lol:

Glad to get some quality Maggie (and Aaron) time, as well! There's been so much going on that some have been sidelined a bit, but these quieter episodes do give us the time to check in and get some business done (see how Carol isn't even glimpsed in this episode - just a quick reference - but had an awesome time in 6x02).

So sure, this isn't going to be an episode to write home about - but frankly you're never going to have every single episode be knock you down fantastic - you need episodes like this to get some much-needed business and character stuff done, so that the big events have the impact they do. The sheer amount of speeches, though, was annoying.

...

TWD 6x05 Memes:

http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/cookies-and-kisses-edition-walking-dead.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JyhfdRk6LfI/VkDE_5T7njI/AAAAAAAAEZA/qjj_nn6o8l0/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Jessie_Sam_Cookies_ 2_6x05_DeadShed.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-124St4D4cyg/VkDE-86VdHI/AAAAAAAAEY4/Ol9MYPn7PAk/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Maggie_Aaron_Find_G lenn_Changed_Mind_Kidding_Me_6x05_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WnW60loM0T8/VkDE-hQjl7I/AAAAAAAAEY0/MZT3xlc3lvA/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Denise_Tara_Pus_Kis s_Rick_Jessie_Kiss_6x05_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[facestabber]

Something I noticed on the Talking Dead: Alexandra Breckinridge has her hair dyed. Aren't they still filming the end of the season? (Insert all crazy speculation here.)

The sewer zombies were awesome; truly gross! It was good to see more of Aaron and Maggie as it feels like we haven't seen them much this season. Also, with nightfall at the end of the episode, the one day all this seasons episodes have taken place in finally ends!

I believe the season finale is being filmed today. But you may be too fast on the single day events ending. Next week looks like we get Daryl Abe and Sasha's story.

Minion you are right about Deanna's fence deal as act of defiance. I just dont know why she feels it necessary to entice the horror that sits on the other side.

Aside from Reg's walls this town is not ready. Glass doors, front porches with low windows. Keeping everything pretty is not a good idea in this world. At minimum I would remove all stairs to second levels, add ladders in place of them and everyone sleeps on second floor. People are on night watch which is great but if they get in how do you signal the sleeping people? What system is in place? For all the talk of how dangerous it is "out there" when the Walkers get in, its going to get dangerous in Alexandria.

One of many things this show is good at is creating fan speculation. Keep us guessing. The blood or substance oozing through the wall has us all talking about it. Someone speculated suicide. Or maybe another Wolf with a well placed arrow knocks over a guard into the fray. I need to say I dont care about the Glenn reveal. The fact that the show is teasing us is comedy on my end. I've said before I believe Glenn should be dead. No way he survives. And as Minion has said they better have some amazingly genius reason for surviving. Regardless when the show decides to provide the absolute truth I am fine with it. I think the show does this as a way to balance the large cast they have. So many characters get lost weeks on end. So in Glenn's case(if he is alive) they write him off for awhile. Maybe Steven Yeun had an important life event he wanted to be at.

[Moon Knight]

I just figured out how Glenn survives!

Enid

This theory has nothing to do with the comics and is just pure speculation on my point. Just added the tags because last time I gave my thoughts someone went ahead and added the tags; which I'm totally cool with.

[DayoftheZ]

I just figured out how Glenn survives!

Enid

This theory has nothing to do with the comics and is just pure speculation on my point. Just added the tags because last time I gave my thoughts someone went ahead and added the tags; which I'm totally cool with.

I had that theory too MK although I feel it could also be......... beware comic book spoiler only read if you have read the comics or dont mide spoilers Jesus

That would be some entrance and make him an instant fans favourite

Maybe its just me but I was glued to the screen on this episode, I absolutely loved it!

It was great to see Rick acting less like a dick and actually showing some humanity which made him a must watch character for so long. It was also great to see more Maggie because she its a great character and has so far been under utilized. Also Aaron is fast becoming a solid Walking Dead character andceratinly one of the stand outs from the Alexandra originals.

Deana is a really odd one, she is an awkward character and seemingly an even more awkward actress but she is really interesting because I cant see what will happen with her. I cant tell if she will pull it together or mess up big time. I also enjoyed the exchanges between Tara / Denise and Jessie / The cookie monster.

I agree that the fight between Ron and Carl was just terrible and I couldn't help but laugh at that one. Either way Ron and Spencer need to be eaten alive.

[Neil]

What did everyone interpret the ending as? Blood splurging through the fence from squished zombies on the other side?

[Moon Knight]

What did everyone interpret the ending as? Blood splurging through the fence from squished zombies on the other side?

Yeah, pretty much.

- - - Updated - - -


I had that theory too MK although I feel it could also be......... beware comic book spoiler only read if you have read the comics or dont mide spoilers Jesus

That would be some entrance and make him an instant fans favourite

That did run by my mind but I don't think they would want to change his introduction from the source material considering the mystery surrounding his arrival is pretty important and furthers the impact of the discovery of more communities among our Survivors. You never know though!

[AcesandEights]

So no obvious set of double guards on the gates at night? Even if they were pulled off the wall to not stir up the walkers?

Maybe they were there and not featured in the shots and not questioning someone who was acting oddly, but it seems poorly thought out considering this is a world where people are sometimes apt to go 'round the bend.

- - - Updated - - -


Just added the tags because last time I gave my thoughts someone went ahead and added the tags; which I'm totally cool with.

That may have been me. A couple weeks ago? Sometimes I forget what has been referenced from the comics already, what hasn't and what hasn't actually even happened in the monthlies. I must be getting old.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/3u6shz_zpsncpjyjzm.jpg

[Moon Knight]

So no obvious set of double guards on the gates at night? Even if they were pulled off the wall to not stir up the walkers?

Maybe they were there and not featured in the shots and not questioning someone who was acting oddly, but it seems poorly thought out considering this is a world where people are sometimes apt to go 'round the bend.

- - - Updated - - -



That may have been me. A couple weeks ago? Sometimes I forget what has been referenced from the comics already, what hasn't and what hasn't actually even happened in the monthlies. I must be getting old.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/3u6shz_zpsncpjyjzm.jpg

Lol it's alright it happens. I will never post anything from the comics or confirmed spoilers without spoiler tags but I get some people don't want to even hear certain theories haha. No worries.

[Neil]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer?

2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers?

[DayoftheZ]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer?

2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers?


1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer?

2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers?

On The Talking Dead they said that the original idea was to have four “Sludge Walkers” and they were intended to be the four people that Deana had exiled attempting to get back into Alexandria. I suppose the explanation is the ladder fell and killed them as they were trying to return.

Ricks hope is that Daryl, Sasha and Abe will return and lure away the walkers. If the walkers are as Rick said twenty deep you would have a serious barrier to getting out if needs be. I would assume there are some cars left in the safe zone that could potentially be used to escape if the time comes and running through walkers would be easier than running over them.

[MinionZombie]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer?

2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers?

1) Yeah, people in the sewer got killed by the falling ladder - and then the bodies got caught up in a load of sewer sludge (there must be so many turds floating about down there - turd walkers!!!)

2) I know, right?! I would have been doing that from the get go - at the fence/entrance - but also from above with some kind of fashioned spears. You'd have to make sure you were anchored to your own side (so the walkers couldn't pull on the pole and drag you down into the herd), but I'd have people up there popping as many skulls as possible. They're lucky that they don't have every walker there, but you could also thin them out some more ... on the downside though, it does provide a lot of activity which could rile them up (more so than just Rick standing quietly and quite still on his tod, looking for signs from the others).

As for next week's episode / the 'one day' thing, it reads to me as if they've been going all-night, so Daryl is exhausted, and it could very well take place during the 2nd day. That's what I presume, anyway.

Also - in case anyone's interesting - Greg Nicotero's got an Instagram feed with a bunch of cool stuff on it: https://instagram.com/gnicotero/

[shootemindehead]

I had that theory too MK although I feel it could also be......... beware comic book spoiler only read if you have read the comics or dont mide spoilers Jesus

That would be some entrance and make him an instant fans favourite

Now that would make me forgive any Glenn is still alive crap. That would be a cool entrance.

[Trin]

I liked this episode. I LOVED seeing the walls surrounded by walkers. And Rick running that final distance being chased by a horde of zombies was classic zombie goodness.

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent.

And, yes, I'd be at the walls thinning the herd in any way possible. That means poles with spikes on the end, nooses to drag them up and knife them. Drill some 2" holes in the wall at head height and spear them. Kite them a few at a time to the sewer grate. I don't care if the numbers end up being overwhelming, or they pull a Dawn 2004 ("for every one we shoot two more appear"). At least show them doing something!

Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.).

I've come to terms with Glenn living. I just hope he lives and we don't have a big jerk-around where they make it seem like he'll live and then don't. Or that we lose someone else equally important in the exchange, like either of the two girls who kissed.

The only real problem I have with this episode is that they foreshadowed lots of internal treachery/mishaps, and I'm pretty sick of the human vs. human (or human vs. idiocy) conflict when we're just getting to some good human vs. zombie.

[facestabber]

I liked this episode. I LOVED seeing the walls surrounded by walkers. And Rick running that final distance being chased by a horde of zombies was classic zombie goodness.

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent.

And, yes, I'd be at the walls thinning the herd in any way possible. That means poles with spikes on the end, nooses to drag them up and knife them. Drill some 2" holes in the wall at head height and spear them. Kite them a few at a time to the sewer grate. I don't care if the numbers end up being overwhelming, or they pull a Dawn 2004 ("for every one we shoot two more appear"). At least show them doing something!

Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.).

I've come to terms with Glenn living. I just hope he lives and we don't have a big jerk-around where they make it seem like he'll live and then don't. Or that we lose someone else equally important in the exchange, like either of the two girls who kissed.

The only real problem I have with this episode is that they foreshadowed lots of internal treachery/mishaps, and I'm pretty sick of the human vs. human (or human vs. idiocy) conflict when we're just getting to some good human vs. zombie.

Yes Trin I'm on board with you regarding Aaron and Maggies trip. Obviously she has some smarts by loading up some mags and taking a handgun. That armory is well stocked with some very nice guns. Kid in a candy store for me. Maybe ammo is limited but it can't be down to zero as we saw Maggie loading. These two also just witnessed an attack by Wolves who may very well be on the outside in great numbers. How any of these characters go without a long gun as a primary and a mandatory handgun on their respective hips is beyond my understanding. I think I was so excited that Maggie was doing something that I didnt pay attention to Aarons lack of arming. I like Maggie in case ya'll wonderin.

[MinionZombie]

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent.

Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.).

1) To be fair those people in the pantry have no idea what the world is like out there. They have no real survival instincts. They're delusional, having been protected by other people in their quaint little walled-off bubble. It's only in the last couple of weeks that they've had everything get a bit crazy - and even then they're just hiding away inside their homes. They've not had to defend themselves, or endure near-starvation (just think of Season 3's opener where Carl was ready to chow down on dog food only for the group to dig into a few scraps of owl meat) ... so those chumps just have their bellies in mind. They've already given up, they believe they're dead and that's that. Rick & Co are problem solvers ... the pantry raiders are mewling babies living on borrowed time.

2) Maggie was tooled up - they conversed in the armory - and Aaron had a pack with him, right? I'd imagine he'd be tooled up in there - and he might have been carrying a gun on a hip holster we didn't happen to see ... but we also know that Aaron's M.O. is much like Glenn's was/is - sneaking around on the sly. Maggie was gearing up to go head-on through the walkers, but he had his own little route. Also, even if you have a load of guns, facing that many walkers you might as well have a pea shooter. You'd not be able to carry enough ammo to deal with them all, and you'd ideally not want to fire a single damn shot as it'd bring a lot of attention down on you - move quick and quiet. They're going after Glenn specifically - yeah, they might encounter Nicholas (as they don't know he's dead) - but that's it. Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl are all off elsewhere dealing with the other half of the herd and are skilled survivors. Glenn is skilled but he's not given a signal or returned - so something is afoot.

They'd probably have a few protein bars and a canteen in their pack, but the mission is very specific and takes them not too far from Alexandria - so it's all about speed and stealth.

:)

[Neil]

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent.Guns don't taste so good?

ps: Yes, I'd be thinning the herd with spears too!

[Trin]

Guns don't taste so good?

ps: Yes, I'd be thinning the herd with spears too!They taste like freedom with a side of peace of mind.

[Moon Knight]

I'm glad Rick made it back this episode. I'm also ok with them not showing us Rick escaping the RV as it was quite obvious he could just run past the herd before he got totally swarmed. Just the simple image of Rick running with his last breath as he's pushing nearby Walkers away was good enough of me.

Was disappointed we really didn't get much screen time with Carol, Michonne, or Morgan; who just had a 90 min episode just so he can be a mere background character this episode. I also wanted to know what was going on with Carol after "JSS".

With Scott pretty much in bad shape, where the hell was Heath? I guess we can blame the Denise switch for that but damn lol.

Father Gabriel was also missing. Disappointing.

That fight between Carl and Ron was embarrassing. Even The Talking Dead poked fun at it.

I don't trust Ron and I don't trust Spencer. F*ck those guys.

I'm glad we got to see more of Maggie this episode and I'm also happy she didn't leave Alexandria. I really didn't want her to go off on yet another search mission. Was it a coincidence that the writers had Maggie talking to Aaron about Not knowing if Glenn is alive or dead; almost as if she was speaking on the viewers behalf. A meta comment if you will. I'm pretty sure it was. This show just doesn't say or show anything if it didn't have some kind of meaning behind it.

Great make up work on the two sludge walkers. The original plan was for it to be the exiled Alexandrians who had died trying to get back into the community. I still want to know what happened to Davidson dammit!

Man, is Rosita the new T-Dogg or what. It's frustrating seeing characters like Tara and Sasha get way more screen time than my fellow Latina. Even Denise already feels more important. And please don't hook her up with that douche Spencer. No.

Deanna is in an interesting place right about now. I believe she's trying to fight back but I'm not too sure she's all there mentally. She just lost her son and husband, her community isn't the safe haven she once thought, most of her people were just murdered, walkers surround Alexandria, and her remaining family just blamed her for everything after being a hypocrite and raiding the pantry of booze and crackers. Hmmmm.

Overall not a great episode but a needed one. I usually defend the show on it's writing but not this one. Too many forced speeches and that laughable shoving match was awful. I also wanted to see Rick's reaction to the Wolves attack. Oh well.

Btw, how was it established that the woman who opted out and became a walker was Betsy? They say her name?

Let's hope this is the season's weakest episode.

[MinionZombie]

Was disappointed we really didn't get much screen time with Carol, Michonne, or Morgan; who just had a 90 min episode just so he can be a mere background character this episode. I also wanted to know what was going on with Carol after "JSS".

That fight between Carl and Ron was embarrassing. Even The Talking Dead poked fun at it.

This show just doesn't say or show anything if it didn't have some kind of meaning behind it.

Man, is Rosita the new T-Dogg or what. It's frustrating seeing characters like Tara and Sasha get way more screen time than my fellow Latina. Even Denise already feels more important. And please don't hook her up with that douche Spencer. No.

I also wanted to see Rick's reaction to the Wolves attack. Oh well.

1) If you had to have every single character in every single episode your storytelling options would be severely limited and constrained, and frankly it would make for an incredibly disjointed episode with not enough time for anyone to do, let alone say, anything fully. There is the 'week to week' issue of viewing it, but these events are taking place over a very condensed timeframe (four episodes for a single day in this case).

2) Yeah, the brief shove fight was a bit crappy ... but then again they're both teenage boys ... when do you ever remember two teenage boys fighting like they were in a Rocky movie?! :lol:

3) Indeed - there's always a reason for something. We get a lot of foreshadowing, call backs, and dropped hints these days with Gimple as showrunner, which is a lot of fun. Remember the painting Michonne found in Season 4 which prefigured Mary at Terminus? The dropping of the chocolate bar wrapper - which was later found by The Wolves? All these small things link up - there is always a larger plan and story afoot - we've just not seen all of it yet.

And I've gotta say, sometimes it might not be an issue of what's written - it might be an issue of how something is staged on the day (e.g. the gripes about the position of the dumpster and the walkers surrounding it) ... plus, it ain't easy to write a show like The Walking Dead, or most shows for that fact. There's a hell of a lot to think about, especially when you're mapping out an entire season and seeking to make things link up.

This isn't me excusing everything - Spencer's speech was a bit of a cringer, and felt far too 'designed' and 'written' rather than somebody in the heat of the moment - and generally the episode was speech-heavy (four bloody speeches!) ... but as I've figured out over the years, everything is harder than you think it is, screenwriting very much included. There's a hell of a lot of work that goes into these scripts, like any good script, and even if there's some faults here and there, frankly TWD shits all over a great swathe of TV and movie writing out there (particularly network stuff, which always feels so constrained by censorship and writing-by-committee).

End of rant. ;)

4) Yes. More Rosita, please!

5) Rick's reaction? We kind of get the aftershocks, and even if we did see what else would it be but sheer horror? Much like Rick escaping from the RV, we know what would happen/how it would go down ... sure I'd like to have seen it, but some things have got to be jettisoned to make room for other stuff (which further illustrates my point in #1 above).

[Moon Knight]

1) If you had to have every single character in every single episode your storytelling options would be severely limited and constrained, and frankly it would make for an incredibly disjointed episode with not enough time for anyone to do, let alone say, anything fully. There is the 'week to week' issue of viewing it, but these events are taking place over a very condensed timeframe (four episodes for a single day in this case).

2) Yeah, the brief shove fight was a bit crappy ... but then again they're both teenage boys ... when do you ever remember two teenage boys fighting like they were in a Rocky movie?! :lol:

3) Indeed - there's always a reason for something. We get a lot of foreshadowing, call backs, and dropped hints these days with Gimple as showrunner, which is a lot of fun. Remember the painting Michonne found in Season 4 which prefigured Mary at Terminus? The dropping of the chocolate bar wrapper - which was later found by The Wolves? All these small things link up - there is always a larger plan and story afoot - we've just not seen all of it yet.

And I've gotta say, sometimes it might not be an issue of what's written - it might be an issue of how something is staged on the day (e.g. the gripes about the position of the dumpster and the walkers surrounding it) ... plus, it ain't easy to write a show like The Walking Dead, or most shows for that fact. There's a hell of a lot to think about, especially when you're mapping out an entire season and seeking to make things link up.

This isn't me excusing everything - Spencer's speech was a bit of a cringer, and felt far too 'designed' and 'written' rather than somebody in the heat of the moment - and generally the episode was speech-heavy (four bloody speeches!) ... but as I've figured out over the years, everything is harder than you think it is, screenwriting very much included. There's a hell of a lot of work that goes into these scripts, like any good script, and even if there's some faults here and there, frankly TWD shits all over a great swathe of TV and movie writing out there (particularly network stuff, which always feels so constrained by censorship and writing-by-committee).

End of rant. ;)

4) Yes. More Rosita, please!

5) Rick's reaction? We kind of get the aftershocks, and even if we did see what else would it be but sheer horror? Much like Rick escaping from the RV, we know what would happen/how it would go down ... sure I'd like to have seen it, but some things have got to be jettisoned to make room for other stuff (which further illustrates my point in #1 above).

I agree with you about the writing. I guess that's the point I tried making earlier. Sure the Spencer speech was cringeworthy but for the most part the writing is already great in my opinion. My biggest gripe is the weak handling of background characters whether they are red shirts or the people of Woodbury. Sometimes it feels like they just throw anyone out there without the care and special handling like someone like Carol or Gabriel would get. See a show like GoT and how it feels like every character is well written and acted regardless of screen importance. Anyway, minor gripe aside, episodes like "The Grove" and "Clear" and even "Too Far Gone", are great examples on this show's great writing.

I didn't expect a good fist fight between the teens but c'mon, man lol that was bad. :D

Also, concerning Rick's reaction, I personally thought the events from "JSS" would have had a bigger emotional impact back home but I'm not mad about it. Sometimes expectations going in can let you down at times but I completey understand what you're saying.

[facestabber]

Im with you Moon regarding Rosita. Her character is underdeveloped. I'd trade her for Sasha right away. I too want to see Ricks reaction to the Wolf attack. I have a feeling its coming soon and its gonna get bad between Rick and Morgan. Rick saw the W's on his attackers at the RV and he will find out about Morgan. The captured Wolf is likely gonna do harm to someone. I have s scary thought as to who but wont risk spoiler.

Minion, you can find teenage GIRLS brutally fighting on youtube...LOL I don't expect Rocky but that was embarrassing.

[MinionZombie]

My biggest gripe is the weak handling of background characters whether they are red shirts or the people of Woodbury. Sometimes it feels like they just throw anyone out there without the care and special handling like someone like Carol or Gabriel would get. See a show like GoT and how it feels like every character is well written and acted regardless of screen importance. Anyway, minor gripe aside, episodes like "The Grove" and "Clear" and even "Too Far Gone", are great examples on this show's great writing.

Well, if the red shirts were handled like Carol or whoever else, then they wouldn't be red shirts - they'd be main characters. :p ;) :D

Seriously though, the fact we're calling them "red shirts" goes to show that such a treatment of background/one episode only characters isn't anything new. Any time you give them is all time taken away from the people you've been following for far longer. I think the handling of the red shirts in 6x03 was some of the best in the show - David in particular. He had a backstory, he interacted directly with a main cast member in a way that also related to their story, they ran a gamut of emotions, and their death had an impact a couple of episodes later with Betsy (his wife) slitting her wrists.

I'd imagine there's also a production/financial element involved too, e.g. background extras vs a bit player ... then you've got someone who does a single episode, but if you're in more than two then you're a "recurring character", so there's probably some extra cash and such for that. Ultimately, if you're going to kill them off - someone of little real story or character importance to your main cast (which, in TWD, is very large) - then do you really want to splash that extra cash (that could pay for a more awesome walker kill, or additional zombie extras, etc)?

Game of Thrones ... hmmm ... there's plenty of nameless characters getting their throats slit or flashing their bits n pieces dotted around, sometimes saying a line or two ... all shows have bit players, background characters, red shirts etc.

I do agree that there are ways to work in a little bit more stuff to flesh them out a bit - I refer back to David in 6x03 - which, like in David's case, gives more of an illusion that they are the lead character in their own story. However, the real 'support work' has to be focused on the supporting characters rather than those who are just there for an episode, or even a scene. On the other hand we get some amazingly detailed walkers that are only glimpsed. :D


Minion, you can find teenage GIRLS brutally fighting on youtube...LOL I don't expect Rocky but that was embarrassing.

True, but not all people fight like wild cats ... you rarely/never see on YouTube all the countless 'fights' that are embarrassingly brief/inept etc. I agree that in this show it should have been a bit beefier (but only just a bit), but at the same time neither of them are Van Damme or whoever you like. Remember all those duff fights you saw when you were at school - there'd be a load of build up, a bunch of circling about, then a few piss-poor punches with bugger all aim or skill, and then a teacher would come along and break things up and everyone's all "we stayed after school for this shit?" :lol:

...

Just having a skim through Nicotero's Instagram and this is a nifty look at the sludge walker that Maggie gets her arms stuck inside: https://instagram.com/p/92SFSSoNFW/?taken-by=gnicotero

[shootemindehead]

Just amazing makeup.

I'm constantly impressed by it.

[Moon Knight]

Well, if the red shirts were handled like Carol or whoever else, then they wouldn't be red shirts - they'd be main characters. :p ;) :D

Seriously though, the fact we're calling them "red shirts" goes to show that such a treatment of background/one episode only characters isn't anything new. Any time you give them is all time taken away from the people you've been following for far longer. I think the handling of the red shirts in 6x03 was some of the best in the show - David in particular. He had a backstory, he interacted directly with a main cast member in a way that also related to their story, they ran a gamut of emotions, and their death had an impact a couple of episodes later with Betsy (his wife) slitting her wrists.

I'd imagine there's also a production/financial element involved too, e.g. background extras vs a bit player ... then you've got someone who does a single episode, but if you're in more than two then you're a "recurring character", so there's probably some extra cash and such for that. Ultimately, if you're going to kill them off - someone of little real story or character importance to your main cast (which, in TWD, is very large) - then do you really want to splash that extra cash (that could pay for a more awesome walker kill, or additional zombie extras, etc)?

Game of Thrones ... hmmm ... there's plenty of nameless characters getting their throats slit or flashing their bits n pieces dotted around, sometimes saying a line or two ... all shows have bit players, background characters, red shirts etc.

I do agree that there are ways to work in a little bit more stuff to flesh them out a bit - I refer back to David in 6x03 - which, like in David's case, gives more of an illusion that they are the lead character in their own story. However, the real 'support work' has to be focused on the supporting characters rather than those who are just there for an episode, or even a scene. On the other hand we get some amazingly detailed walkers that are only glimpsed. :D



True, but not all people fight like wild cats ... you rarely/never see on YouTube all the countless 'fights' that are embarrassingly brief/inept etc. I agree that in this show it should have been a bit beefier (but only just a bit), but at the same time neither of them are Van Damme or whoever you like. Remember all those duff fights you saw when you were at school - there'd be a load of build up, a bunch of circling about, then a few piss-poor punches with bugger all aim or skill, and then a teacher would come along and break things up and everyone's all "we stayed after school for this shit?" :lol:

...

Just having a skim through Nicotero's Instagram and this is a nifty look at the sludge walker that Maggie gets her arms stuck inside: https://instagram.com/p/92SFSSoNFW/?taken-by=gnicotero

David was an awesome example of a minor background character done right. Go and watch "Made to Suffer" and "The Suicide King" and watch the background Woodbury residents and see just how terribly acted they are lol that's what I'm getting at.

- - - Updated - - -


Just amazing makeup.

I'm constantly impressed by it.

Yeah, dude, it's amazing.

[MinionZombie]

David was an awesome example of a minor background character done right. Go and watch "Made to Suffer" and "The Suicide King" and watch the background Woodbury residents and see just how terribly acted they are lol that's what I'm getting at.

To be fair that was Season 3. I agree though, in the past there have been some rubbish background characters. It's been far better since then ... a random one that pops into my head, albeit without a name attached to it, was when Tyreese and Carol team-up in Season 4B, and he comes across a father and teenage son getting munched by walkers. We find out through Carol, and the guy himself, that he and his son were heading to Terminus and hooked up with Carol, and of course we saw what became of him before we saw him alive, which was a groovy bit of time-play (I quite enjoy Gimple's manipulation of time from Season 4 onwards as it keeps things unpredictable and you can get some pretty nifty reveals etc out of it ... plus it's a richer way to tell the story). :cool:

We still get some red shirts even today, but as I've elaborated on earlier in this thread, there just ain't the time to spend - nor the audience wish - to fleshing out every single bit player, because it would inevitably mean much less time to spend with our (rather large) central cast. So I think a mix of the traditional red shirts - as all shows have - with some stand-out tie-in bit parts like David (which also paid off two episodes later with Betsy), is the best balance.

[DayoftheZ]

On the subject of background characters, I have just watched the episode where the Alexandrians have a welcoming party at Deana’s house for Team Rick. One of the main background characters was the woman who got killed first by The Wolves.

The best thing was Spence warned Sasha about this woman because she was constantly banging on about a Pasta maker. One of Team Rick later on walked passed her and she was talking about making Pasta also, this theme continued on the run that resulted in Aidan and Noah dying when they were told to keep their eyes open for the damn pasta maker.

I had missed that part on the first watch because it was all just a throwaway kind of comment but it made me chuckle knowing what the payoff was with Carols put down and the woman’s subsequent demise.

[Moon Knight]

On the subject of background characters, I have just watched the episode where the Alexandrians have a welcoming party at Deana’s house for Team Rick. One of the main background characters was the woman who got killed first by The Wolves.

The best thing was Spence warned Sasha about this woman because she was constantly banging on about a Pasta maker. One of Team Rick later on walked passed her and she was talking about making Pasta also, this theme continued on the run that resulted in Aidan and Noah dying when they were told to keep their eyes open for the damn pasta maker.

I had missed that part on the first watch because it was all just a throwaway kind of comment but it made me chuckle knowing what the payoff was with Carols put down and the woman’s subsequent demise.

Yep, and Eric also mentioned her during the Dinner with Aaron and Daryl.

Another thing that bothered me from back in season 3-4 was that out of everyone that Rick took in from Woodbury, not ONE was strong enough to become a valuable member of the group? Lol. At this point I'm surprised Tara is still around but I have my theories on her.

I'm not sure I mentioned this before but I really like Jesse's character. I feel sympathy for her and she is proving she belongs with Rick and the group. Just like Aaron.

[facestabber]

The people of Woodbury were horribly done. The whole pit fighting with Walkers scene was not consistent with the rest of the arc. Screaming and cheering for Walkers and human combatants and practically foaming at the mouth in excitement. Woodburyites were made to look extremely naive and dumb. They definitely weren't the type to enjoy toying with walkers. The image was cool to see but I never thought it matched what the Woodbury people actually were.

[MinionZombie]

I'm not sure I mentioned this before but I really like Jesse's character. I feel sympathy for her and she is proving she belongs with Rick and the group. Just like Aaron.

Agreed - these last few episodes she's been rocking it - especially when she took down that Wolf. Good to see her cottoning on to Team Rick's way of doing things - and the pragmatic take down of Walker Betsy was solid. Nice to see Rick getting a little bit jiggy too ... poor bugger needs some special time. He's certainly earned it! :lol:

Comics Spoiler:

I wonder if they'll follow up on Jessie's demise from the comics in the show ... it was brutal as hell and a standout moment, but now that Alexandra Breckinridge is getting some quality stuff to do (and doing it impressively, as well!) I kinda don't want her character to die. I want my cake and I want to eat it, too.

Breckinridge did have that blue dye thing going on with her hair on Talking Dead, though ... perhaps Jessie's not long for this world?


DayoftheZ - good spot! I've not been re-watching the episodes since the beginning of Season 5 so that I can really enjoy them fresh - almost like seeing them for the first time - when I get the Blu-Ray ... the downside of course is that I do miss some of these elements that are sewn through multiple episodes! Again, good spot! It'll be nice to rewatch the season in a short amount of time to get all the little things going on that you usually don't see because of all the big business that's up-front and in your face. :)

[Moon Knight]

Agreed - these last few episodes she's been rocking it - especially when she took down that Wolf. Good to see her cottoning on to Team Rick's way of doing things - and the pragmatic take down of Walker Betsy was solid. Nice to see Rick getting a little bit jiggy too ... poor bugger needs some special time. He's certainly earned it! :lol:

Comics Spoiler:

I wonder if they'll follow up on Jessie's demise from the comics in the show ... it was brutal as hell and a standout moment, but now that Alexandra Breckinridge is getting some quality stuff to do (and doing it impressively, as well!) I kinda don't want her character to die. I want my cake and I want to eat it, too.

Breckinridge did have that blue dye thing going on with her hair on Talking Dead, though ... perhaps Jessie's not long for this world?



Comics Spoiler:
I really do think that both Jessie and Ron will be killed off in similar fashion; the impact it created in the comics was too important to just skip over in the show. Just imagine the horrific visual on screen as Rick does what he does to save Carl. Actually, Carl is a lot older here and that wouldn't really make sense now. Anyway, I still believe they both die. I also do believe Sam will survive and will end up with Carol.

[MinionZombie]

Comics Spoiler:
I really do think that both Jessie and Ron will be killed off in similar fashion; the impact it created in the comics was too important to just skip over in the show. Just imagine the horrific visual on screen as Rick does what he does to save Carl. Actually, Carl is a lot older here and that wouldn't really make sense now. Anyway, I still believe they both die. I also do believe Sam will survive and will end up with Carol.

Continued Comics Spoiler/Future Show Theory:

Oh geez, another creepy adopted kid for Carol? The gal's got duff luck, so she does! :lol: Although a cookie monster is far better than a psychopathic killer kid.

Even with Carl being older, he's still not adult-level strong, and facing such a huge amount of walkers - and someone refusing to let go of you - I think it could still definitely work. If they do go ahead with this scene, as they should (although I'd still be gutted to lose Jessie), then holy shit it's going to be awesome! :eek: