TWD 6x08 "Start to Finish" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 6x08 "Start to Finish" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Matthew Negrete

The mid-season finale! TWD returns Valentine's Day 2016. :p

[Moon Knight]

Death predictions:

Deanna, Ron, Tobin, Bruce, Scott, and Jessie.

Wildcard: Tara.

[MinionZombie]

I'd be surprised if no-one dies, particularly with all that chaos about to come down upon them ... shit's gonna get real. :eek:

Death Predictions:
Ron, Sam, Jessie ... ... Judith.

Not necessarily all, possibly a combination of some of those names and possibly some other names. I don't think (and hope) we'll see a main character go, although there are ones who I think/feel are running short on time. Whether or not they cark it in the mid-season finale or not remains to be seen, but they do have to pace themselves.

[Moon Knight]

I'd be surprised if no-one dies, particularly with all that chaos about to come down upon them ... shit's gonna get real. :eek:

Death Predictions:
Ron, Sam, Jessie ... ... Judith.

Not necessarily all, possibly a combination of some of those names and possibly some other names. I don't think (and hope) we'll see a main character go, although there are ones who I think/feel are running short on time. Whether or not they cark it in the mid-season finale or not remains to be seen, but they do have to pace themselves.

I can see them killing Sam and Rick cutting off Jessie's arm in the process of saving Judith.

Wish this one was 90 min. :(

[facestabber]

Sam, Ron, Jessie, Deanna, Handful of redshirts. I think Morgan's Wolf is gonna kill Carol or the chubby Dr lady

[Staredge]

I really don't understand why the premieres/finales aren't regularly longer. It's not like they don't have enough story......it ain't like they don't make enough money.

[facestabber]

Fuck you AMC. Forcing us to watch Badlands to see our show!!!! I will never under any circumstances support badlands. Chicken shit move.

[Moon Knight]

What a c*ck tease. A whole episode of build up with no payoff. Dissapointed.

[facestabber]

What a c*ck tease. A whole episode of build up with no payoff. Dissapointed.

AMC best pay close attention to the backlash that is going to happen. I don't think this ends well for them. And it's not fair to TWD cast or fans that they are being used to promote a new show. Fuck that. I'm pissed.

[sandrock74]

I feel this Badlands show is very intrusive into my Walking Dead viewing. First, I had to give up watching Talking Dead since they put it on after Badlands and now I'm supposed to sit thru some of it to see next episode/previews stuff that they normally air during TWD credits?? I'm not going to be forced to watch a new show, so now I miss stuff. This Badlands show has been becoming more of a pain in the @$$ each week.

Also, I felt this was a tense episode but ultimately weak since, as already mentioned, there was no payoff of any kind. When the episode ended, my reaction was "That's it?? This is where you end it?!?". I could deal with it if it was a normal one week wait, but waiting almost three months? Bad planning on the creative staffs part.

On a bright side, I did like the "Invincible" figures in the mop-top kids room. Nice shout out to Kirkman's other comic.

[Moon Knight]

AMC best pay close attention to the backlash that is going to happen. I don't think this ends well for them. And it's not fair to TWD cast or fans that they are being used to promote a new show. Fuck that. I'm pissed.

I agree 100%. Not cool.

[Rottedfreak]

I'm thinking the Walking Dead is pointless now if it's just going to be a retread of the comics.
Fear The Walking Dead may be what we want.

[kidgloves]

What bullshit. Seems to me AMC are hell bent on pissing the audience off.
No respect whatsoever and quite a lame episode for a mid season finale.

[JDP]

Fuck you AMC. Forcing us to watch Badlands to see our show!!!! I will never under any circumstances support badlands. Chicken shit move.

This is the third time that I miss something connected to TWD because of this annoying as hell AMC strategy of wanting to force people into watching a new show. Thankfully, this time they repeated the preview of the coming episode during Talking Dead, so I did not really miss it. They should air all TWD-related previews/special-messages during the two proper shows for this kind of stuff, not during some other totally unconnected show.

[Moon Knight]

What bullshit. Seems to me AMC are hell bent on pissing the audience off.
No respect whatsoever and quite a lame episode for a mid season finale.

They really are making some head scratching decisions this season. If that last scene would have at least played out we would all be talking about this one differently.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm thinking the Walking Dead is pointless now if it's just going to be a retread of the comics.
Fear The Walking Dead may be what we want.

I prefer they follow the comics. That's when the show is at its best.

[MinionZombie]

I knew it was going to be a cliffhanger!!!

That makes total sense ... even if it was an extended episode they wouldn't be able to cover all the chaos in 63 minutes. Hell, even in 88 minutes (two standard length episodes) they probably won't cover everything, so a cliffhanger makes the most sense - even if it is annoying - we want to know what happens next, but boy am I eager to see 6x09!

However - it's not like they're the first show to end/pause on a cliffhanger - and f*ck me, calm down, it's only two sodding months you have to wait!!! :lol::stunned::lol: Deadwood just ended with no conclusion, Twin Peaks ended - twenty five years ago - without a conclusion and a gigantic cliffhanger ... hell, Season 4 ended with them all locked in a train car and we had to wait several months for the chaos ... so I think we can all manage just a couple of months (with the distraction of Christmas thrown in for good measure). :D

I'd have slapped that Sam kid, though, because damn is he a liability! Clearly that's not Jessie's way of doing things - especially as a victim of spousal abuse, it's the last thing she'd ever do (and, besides, mother's tend to love their offspring to a fault at times, even if being harsh with them in that rare moment might prove to be the best choice ultimately). Personally, I'd have told the kid to NOT SAY A SINGLE WORD, DON'T MAKE A SOUND, DO EXACTLY AS I TELL YOU TO DO, AND TRUST ME. Then again, with the cookie monster babbling away we're going to see some serious shit in 6x09 - it's going to be a hell of an episode!!! :hyper:

Would I have liked to have seen it unfold now? Sure! Who wouldn't? But I don't mind them 'cliffhangering' me either.

As for not getting a payoff? Dying Deanna going full badass isn't enough? Carol versus Morgan isn't enough? The intense episode-long tension isn't enough? Greedy guts! :elol::p

Clearly there's a huge amount of stuff going on in this episode - decisions and actions that will have significant ramifications in Season 6B, so in some ways we're being set up for what's to come. We got some serious action (Maggie's panicked escape from that cluster of walkers had me waving my arms frantically at the screen for our dear farmer's daughter to get up that damn ladder - SOOOOO TENSE!!!!), and some good emotional stuff too (I loved the interactions that Michonne had with Deanna in this episode).

So ... my death predictions were off ... for this episode. I'll shift them over to 6x09, whether they all happen or not, we'll see.


F*ck you AMC. Forcing us to watch Badlands to see our show!!!! I will never under any circumstances support badlands. Chicken shit move.


I feel this Badlands show is very intrusive into my Walking Dead viewing. First, I had to give up watching Talking Dead since they put it on after Badlands and now I'm supposed to sit thru some of it to see next episode/previews stuff that they normally air during TWD credits?? I'm not going to be forced to watch a new show, so now I miss stuff. This Badlands show has been becoming more of a pain in the @$$ each week.

I completely understand AMC's decision regarding Into The Badlands ... ... however, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Shoving it between TWD and Talking Dead is intrusive enough as it is (incidentally TWD and TD will be back together again in February, so no worries there), but are you guys saying they took the tag scene with Abraham/Sasha/Daryl and inserted it somewhere between parts of Into The Badlands? If that's the case then f*ck me - that's bloody cheeky!

I understanding them wanting to give their new show a good chance, but annoying the fans of your #1 show isn't the best way to go about it - you'll create resentment and even hostility towards Into The Badlands as a result, and it seems AMC have somewhat done that. If you're gonna watch, you'll watch, if you're not gonna watch, you won't. I understand all this 'lead in' stuff that American networks seem particularly fond of, but they have messed around with the existing Sunday night schedule too much, I think. Even Comic Book Men got shafted entirely (we're missing three episodes at this point - back in February apparently, but for those of us who enjoy CBM it's a nuisance).


If that last scene would have at least played out we would all be talking about this one differently.

I prefer they follow the comics. That's when the show is at its best.

Yeah, it would have been nice if they'd gone further with that particular scene ... but then again if they did go a step further, they'd need to go several steps further beyond that, as the action would spiral out of control. So I understand why they cut where they cut.

Agreed. The comics provide an excellent backbone - and they regularly meander from the path, but they do so in ways that still provide surprises and changes things up. Carol and Daryl affect the plot in numerous ways that they never did - or were ever able to - in the comics, for instance.

...

Circling back to Deanna - I commend Tovah Feldshuh on her performance in this episode, she really nailed it, and her final moments were very well writting. I liked that she was using humour as a defence mechanism, while also being resigned to her fate, but that she wasn't just going to give up either. I liked that moment where she just wanted to see Judith one last time - the mother inside of her coming out ... just think of that, she's about to die, and this is the last time she'll see a baby, and feel that twang of motherhood. In many ways that's quite poignant. I dug her little line about Rick's beard - it is one hell of a beard, after all ... and of course it was awesome to see her just fling that door open and take down six of those fetid bastards. Like Feldshuh said on Talking Dead, it played into her 'greater good' mentality.

It'll be interesting to see how Alexandria's leadership goes from here on out for Rick. He's been a whirlwind for these people, a hell of a culture shock, but he's their only real hope.

...

TWD 6x08 Memes:

http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/bigger-tease-edition-walking-dead-6x08.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v4tcmFO0ZFs/VlxpKg7sEMI/AAAAAAAAEcs/r6xkQsQx0qU/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Rick_Christmas_Xmas _Mid_Season_Finale_Feeling_6x08_DeadShed.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p4BSdhnBCq0/VlxpMfniNlI/AAAAAAAAEc0/2d7CtqPaIu8/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_6_Meme_Rick__Deanna_Hell_O f_A_Beard_Final_6x08_DeadShed.jpg


:)

[kidgloves]

Dawn MZ. Does ANYTHING piss you off.

I had a good read of the comments on AMC''s Facebook page and it's 99.99% f*ck you AMC. They really are digging a hole with that Into the Badlands bullshit. Lots of very very unhappy people

[MinionZombie]

Dawn MZ. Does ANYTHING piss you off.

I had a good read of the comments on AMC''s Facebook page and it's 99.99% f*ck you AMC. They really are digging a hole with that Into the Badlands bullshit. Lots of very very unhappy people

So I'd imagine they'd want to steer clear of such things in the future, which would be the sensible thing to do.

Yes, things do piss me off, many things in fact ... but a Walking Dead cliffhanger? Why would that piss me off? It's a bit annoying that I have to wait until February to see how the story continues, but that was always going to be the case, cliffhangers have been used by practically every show in existence, and there was a lot of awesome stuff in 6x08.

AMC's pushing of Into The Badlands is a separate issue - and clearly it's pissed off a lot of people by sandwiching it inbetween TWD and TD (again - those two shows will be back-to-back once more come the mid-season premiere ... indeed, it almost sounded a bit like Hardwick was a bit exasperated by AMC's decision on that front in the way he assured TWD/TD fans of the shift back to normal procedure in February ... that's how it sounded to me, at least). I understand AMC wanting their new show to do well, but absolutely it should not get in the way of existing (and highly popular) shows. You're just going to create resentment rather than intrigue.

6.4m and 4.8m for the first two episodes, so it'll be interesting to see from an observer's perspective how the figures for the remaining episodes shake out - where will they bottom out? Even if it ultimately proves successful with enough viewers, the amount of aggro the scheduling has generated isn't worth it. Clearly AMC were trying something out, but I think even then they went too far in the "while you wait for more TWD, watch THIS won't you?" shtick.

...

All of this is besides the point - the point being the episode itself - which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Yes, it irks me that I'll have to wait until February to see the story resolve, but sooner or later the mid-season break was coming, and I always kind of figured we'd have a cliffhanger situation to keep the fans hungry for the show's return. It's fun to have a little mystery to keep you guessing and drooling over. They don't over-do cliffhangers, and look at last year's mid-season break - there was a distinct splice down the middle, which did make it kind of two mini-seasons rather than a whole. I think this temporary cliffhanger will result in a more fluid viewing experience on home video when you're watching it all in your own time. :)

[rongravy]

I thought they showed the Negan name drop scene immediately before the Badlands show started, or pretty darn quick. They also reshowed it during TD, so no biggie. I was more pissed about not being able to skim through commercials for the stupid plane mini episode...
I was expecting for them to leave us hanging like this. But, yeah...
More, more, more!!!

[kidgloves]

I'm thinking the Walking Dead is pointless now if it's just going to be a retread of the comics.
Fear The Walking Dead may be what we want.

I'm with you on this one.
The shows roughly at the same stage that I lost interest in the comics. I made it to the end of "All out war" at a struggle and then I was done.

For me, this has been the worst half season so far. Episodes 1&2 were outstanding and I really enjoyed last week's, despite the Glen controversy.
I no longer feel like any of the main characters are in danger. We haven't had a season 1 death since Andrea in season 3 and I can't help thinking that the upcoming big death from the comics will end up being Morgan who I'm beginning to dislike immensely in the show anyway.

[Moon Knight]

I'm with you on this one.
The shows roughly at the same stage that I lost interest in the comics. I made it to the end of "All out war" at a struggle and then I was done.

For me, this has been the worst half season so far. Episodes 1&2 were outstanding and I really enjoyed last week's, despite the Glen controversy.
I no longer feel like any of the main characters are in danger. We haven't had a season 1 death since Andrea in season 3 and I can't help thinking that the upcoming big death from the comics will end up being Morgan who I'm beginning to dislike immensely in the show anyway.

Dude, you aren't lying. I think All out War can be good TV if done well but the comics drop off for me there too. I try and keep up to date but after issue 144 I lost complete interest.

Also agree on the show not killing main characters. It has to be Daryl, Glenn, or Carol by season's end. Anyone else will be dissapointing.

[shootemindehead]

I see that zombie smell shit is back.

Seriously. F*ck all of that.

Meh.

6 Started off great. Ballsed it up completely.

Hopefully the next half will redeem itself.

[Harleydude666]

Wow, this episode and the entire first half of this season is very underwhelming. The Glenn thing pissed me off, no way he survives, that whole thing was a bottle of cheese wiz to me. The writers are now insulting our intelligence.

I'm also sick to my stomach with all these long drawn out boring speeches every single character all of a sudden feels the need to spew. Nothing but preposterous drivel, especially that Spencer one at the food armory. Seriously, there are walkers surrounding you and all of a sudden everyone thinks they're Hamlet

The delivery of some zombie attacks are lazy and pathetic at best. How do you not hear a walker coming upon you in the woods. But these zombie attacks go back far in the series. Andrea in the woods, zombies reaching through the trees, Dale's attack, the zombie pinned behind a boulder a couple of weeks ago reaching out and just grabbing the guy at will, and Carter's death(how pathetic was that one)? I expect better especially when Nicotero is part of this crew. How about a little more effort and imagination in these zombie attacks? Sheesh

How does the crew watch the dailies and say "this is great!"?

To me the show is becoming stale, and fast. I'd fire these writers and hire some writers who truly know what the horror genre is about. I'm predicting a ratings decline as the second half moves on unless something is done quick. If there is no threat people become bored. I'm getting bored and I dreaded that this day was gonna come. I just didn't think it was gonna come this early for me.

[facestabber]

I am seeing so much negative feedback, outside this forum as well. This is not good AMC. Those assholes better take notice. This first half as a whole is probably my least favorite. Season 2,4 and 5 mid season breaks were really powerful. There were some good moments here but something just felt off.

But I must add, in the past when it seems the show is in a bit of a rut, they knock it out of the park. I remember the back to back Dale, Shane deaths and the chaos at the farm. 06-09 looks to be down right wicked, and I think my death predictions look promising.

[JDP]

I completely understand AMC's decision regarding Into The Badlands ... ... however, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Shoving it between TWD and Talking Dead is intrusive enough as it is (incidentally TWD and TD will be back together again in February, so no worries there), but are you guys saying they took the tag scene with Abraham/Sasha/Daryl and inserted it somewhere between parts of Into The Badlands? If that's the case then f*ck me - that's bloody cheeky!

I understanding them wanting to give their new show a good chance, but annoying the fans of your #1 show isn't the best way to go about it - you'll create resentment and even hostility towards Into The Badlands as a result, and it seems AMC have somewhat done that. If you're gonna watch, you'll watch, if you're not gonna watch, you won't. I understand all this 'lead in' stuff that American networks seem particularly fond of, but they have messed around with the existing Sunday night schedule too much, I think.

That's exactly what they have done for the last 3 episodes, ever since the premiere of the new show. Not only they sandwiched it between TWD and TD, but then aired special messages and previews having to do with TWD during the commercial breaks for Into the Badlands, not like they always do, which is during TWD or TD, the two proper shows to air such things. This is a very blatant attempt at twisting the arms of TWD and TD viewers, who right now are AMC's core audience, into watching the new show. I also understand that they want to promote the new show, and I would not have any problem with it except for this disruptive and forceful manner in which they have done it. Instead of gaining many new viewers for the new show, they will very likely cause many TWD and TD viewers to not want to watch Into the Badlands at all. AMC is being too pushy with its core audience, and many fans of TWD are not liking it.

- - - Updated - - -


I thought they showed the Negan name drop scene immediately before the Badlands show started, or pretty darn quick. They also reshowed it during TD, so no biggie.

No, they didn't, they aired it during the first commercial break for Into the Badlands. This time they also aired it later, during TD, but they did not do this for the two previous times they pulled the same stunt. For example, I totally missed Steven Yeun's special message to fans because they only aired it during one of the commercial breaks for Into the Badlands. Yes, I know it seems rather trivial just for a special "thank you" note or whatever, but it pissed me off that they pulled this cheap gimmick to try to keep the TWD audience tuned in for the new show. As if sandwiching a new show between TWD and TD was not already disruptive enough. I find these attempts at twisting arms into watching a new show very bothersome.

[MinionZombie]

I completely agree on the Into The Badlands related forcefulness that AMC have been pulling.

As for "weakest half season yet" ... are you guys high?! :confused:

2A was too drawn out and padded with filler, while 3B was very patchy (it included some of the very best as well as some of the very worst episodes in TWD history). I enjoyed it all, but those facts remain.

Sometimes I just don't know about you folks ... :shifty: ... when the show fucks up I recognise it and expect better, but this thread is just downright bizarre to me. :confused:

And another payoff moment: Carl vs Ron! Good to see the fight was much more rough and tumble, rather than tha hilarious slap exchange we got last time. I dug Carl's confidence about wanting to deal with the issue himself - and not resorting to absolute violence to solve the problem, and instead laid down some truth for ass hat Ron ... although I would have sought a quiet word with Rick ASAP. However, in that moment there's little point ultimately as the main issue is blocking off the walkers and getting out of the house alive.

Incidentally, them walking through the walkers was really creepy. Some of the walkers inside the house gave me a Romero vibe. It's interesting to see them just meandering about from time to time as opposed to always in attack mode, if that makes sense ... the secret life of walkers, haha.

Loved how Carol played possum and used her head wound to trick Morgan. I dug what Kirkman was saying about how Carol was scared because she realised that she would kill Morgan in order to kill the Wolf. She absolutely didn't want to, but she was fully prepared - and even intended - to do just that, and that scared the hell out of her. Good to see some vulnerability still in there, that's she's not just become a pure warrior - that she's still human, that she still feels, that she is far down the line but not so far that she can't recognise the fact.

[kidgloves]

We're going good to have to agree to disagree then MZ.
I expect better quality in my TV shows and at this stage I can help think what would have happened had Darabont not been ousted.
This season has turned into a very lazily written and thinly stretched bore fest.
The writers have NO idea how to write natural dialogue. People don't talk to each other like they do in this.
How many times do we see characters fall over to generate jeopardy? There were 2 situation's in this episode alone. Unimaginative and lazy.

Edit

And if I see one more person say "it makes more sense when you watch the in a block", I'm going to scream. That's not how it's broadcast originally and consumed by 90% of the audience and, quite frankly, its a cop out.

[Moon Knight]

As dissapointed I am with the last 3 episodes, no way this is the worse first half. Let's not let the hate fool us. Season 2 was saved by the second half. I'm fairly confident this back half will knock it out the park. I wasn't a fan of season 5's first half and because of the excellent second half it became one of my favorites.

- - - Updated - - -


We're going good to have to agree to disagree then MZ.
I expect better quality in my TV shows and at this stage I can help think what would have happened had Darabont not been ousted.
This season has turned into a very lazily written and thinly stretched bore fest.
The writers have NO idea how to write natural dialogue. People don't talk to each other like they do in this.
How many times do we see characters fall over to generate jeopardy? There were 2 situation's in this episode alone. Unimaginative and lazy.

Edit

And if I see one more person say "it makes more sense when you watch the in a block", I'm going to scream. That's not how it's broadcast originally and consumed by 90% of the audience and, quite frankly, its a cop out.

I agree on people falling over. That shit is getting out of hand.

[shootemindehead]

As for "weakest half season yet" ... are you guys high?! :confused:

The last few episodes have been pretty weak in fairness, especially after the rollicking opening few. The duff "Miracle of Glenn", time wasted with Morgan's "Kung Fu" episode and just some generally stupid crap that has crept into the show has seriously exposed that it's dropped the ball in some respects.


And another payoff moment: Carl vs Ron!

Loved how Carol played possum and used her head wound to trick Morgan.

Unfortunately, the writers chose THAT particular time for those characters to make their move, which has to be some seriously shitty writing, I have to say. The worst offender being Ron. I mean really. Yeh there's a ton of zombies outside, threatening to batter down the house and scoff everyone inside. I'll deal with Karl now.

FFS.

Carol's move, too, was pretty stupid and made at a stupid time, when waiting and dealing with the bigger problem would have suited her character better.


Incidentally, them walking through the walkers was really creepy.

Nah Mini, it's not. It's simply dumb.

People on here, by now, know that I cannot stand that "zombie super smell" stupidity and seeing scenes like that takes any suspense away, because the idea is, A.) completely idiotic and B.) a method that's shown to work in the show's universe and therefore should be used ALL OF THE TIME as a camouflage solution. The zombies don't bother them when they use it, so they've would use it every time they have to come into contact with them.

The logic fail with that nonsense is just immense.

It's extremely poor writing.

[MinionZombie]

It wouldn't be all that easy to use the 'gut sheets' approach all the time. You'd have to constantly replenish the gore, and it's not safe in the long run - Kirkman mentioned the risk of falling ill by doing that - plus it's ridiculously disgusting, so I doubt you'd want to be roaming about covered in that gunk (in soaring temperatures to boot!) all the damn time. It's for extreme emergency situations only. It's been used, what, four times in six seasons? Three times intentionally.

I do agree that the 'science' reasoning behind it is a bit iffy - but the 'die from a bite' science is just as curious when everyone's infected already as it is ... but I don't let that spoil my good time either.

*looks underfoot*

So much piss all over the floor in this thread. :elol::p;)

[Moon Knight]

As an episode in itself and if you don't go by the comics and judge it on its own, “Start to Finish” was pretty good. My biggest gripe is that they used the usually epic mid season finale for a much bigger payoff and explosion for the return in the back half; and if you are like me and constantly look at the time, then it was easy to tell that nothing was going to happen so in turn all the tension is gone.

As Kidgloves pointed out earlier, and this is something I didn't even realized until I read his post, two people once again lost their legs and stumbled to the ground for false jeopardy. However, in Deanna’s case it really did prove fatal. See, I can understand her fumbling, she's older and inexperienced, but Carol? Nah, no way. They need to remove that trope from the show immediately.

Also, with all the Walkers inside Alexandria, I would have liked to see what everyone else was up to. Aaron, Eric, Heath, Tobin, Bruce, Olivia, where were these people? Instead we had to spend time with Carl and Ron bickering and Carol and Morgan having a stand off; all while the giant herd is inside their community. Really, Carol, that couldn't wait? Again, all build up for a payoff next episode and I kind of have a feeling what the showrunner has planned.

For me it's a double edged sword, I always said this story should have been drawn out over a few episodes and it now looks like we are getting exactly that. Having to wait until the second half isn't what I had in mind, however haha. I think the writers tried to be a little too fancy but instead everything just didn't play out right in the week to week story structure. I would have personally combined “Now” and “Always Accountable” for example.

I did like Deanna’s performance in this one and her exit was handled well.

Father Gabriel being featured in this one was also pleasant.

One thing I noticed is how Eugene actually degressed back into bumbling Eugene after how he stepped up during “Spend”. A step backwards but perhaps they have something better in mind. “Shrugs”

Overall, this first half started great but the structure hurt it a bit down the end. Too much time wasted and some of our favorites were pretty much an afterthought.

I'm confident with what lies ahead. Negan is here and as long as they don't stray too much off from the source material, everything should be just fine. Just get rid of all that lazy writing and typical Hollywood tropes. Please.

[shootemindehead]

The way that episode should have ended was with everyone trapped in their respective positions with the dead outside clawing to get in and their immediate future looking very bleak indeed.

Then in episode 7, have Negan and his goons show up, clear out the walkers and start demanding tributes from the Alexandrians, thus starting off that thread of the story.

There's an incredible amount of ire in webland over that episode and I can understand why.

[Neil]

Not sure why they couldn't have literally killed the walkers at the bottom of the stairs... then when the next ones came forwards repeat... then again... and again... and again?

[Moon Knight]

Not sure why they couldn't have literally killed the walkers at the bottom of the stairs... then when the next ones came forwards repeat... then again... and again... and again?

Eh, that wouldn't be as intriguing. :D

[zomtom]

To me it was an okay episode. I'm not jumping up and down over it, but in the same respect I'm not saying it was terrible. I keep reading too many comments from the actors who keep claiming these are phenomenal episodes full of blood and excitement only to get a meh episode. Maybe I allow my expectations to get raised too high only to be disappointed. Why couldn't this episode be 90 minutes? I would have much preferred it now as opposed to Morgan and his damned stick! And how the hell did the writers take a great character like Morgan and turn him into somebody who's death you're looking forward to?
And don't get me going about Into the Badlands!! Talk about aggressive marketing!! I resent having that show shoved down my throat. I can't help but feel that type of marketing is going to bite AMC in the ass. I still love The Walking Dead to death, but I hope the writers and producers don't take the fans for granted. I can't help but feel we are being played with.

[MinionZombie]

As an episode in itself and if you don't go by the comics and judge it on its own, “Start to Finish” was pretty good.

A calm and collected assessment (I just cut it down to this line so it wasn't a great big quote taking up a load of unnecessary space) - thank you. I don't necessarily agree on all points, but your considered response is a welcome one.

On the week-to-week/binge watch issue - I think it's still a valid point, because in this day and age of binge watching we've all been spoiled rotten. We can charge through something at our own pace - but then we also lose all the time in-between to talk and discuss and anticipate - and it also means we're so eager for the next episode that when we have to wait an entirely reasonable and normal amount of time between episodes we get all revved up to an OTT degree.

With some of the other cast members, yes, they do go missing a bit - but this is an inherent problem with having such a large cast - it's just going to happen, but on the up side it opens up numerous avenues for conflict and conspiracy, and it also helps keep the characters fresh (i.e. we don't get bored of seeing them every single episode over and over again). Sometimes it can just come down to script and production requirements - script requirements in that you need a certain amount of pages to focus on each of your stories you're telling in an episode, and the rule is to generally stick to about three plot - A, B, and C - any more than that and you run into problems with pacing, structure, focus, and so on. Particularly here in Season 6A we've got so much going on simultaneously, which is a different approach than we've seen in the past. Perhaps this has created some problems, but it's also had positive effects too - sometimes in life everything happens at once and you don't have enough time to get your ducks in a row and you're forced to improvise.

It's quite something that Abraham/Sasha/Daryl didn't even figure into this episode at all - this is how large the cast has become. I can see what you're saying about combining a couple of episodes ... but I would warn that it's much easier said than done. Writing a show - particularly one this complex, with a cast this big - is a difficult task. Every choice you make on the page has positive and negative effects for the remainder of the script and the knock-on effects of what might initially seem to be a simple change can be massively complicated and troublesome.

Neil - I agree - in a normal world you would try to just kill the walkers from behind that sofa. However, you wouldn't be able to get all of them - eventually you'd not be able to reach, and you might not have the supplies to create a 'pokey stick' from what you have upstairs (e.g. if there is Duct Tape in the house, it'll probably be in the garage of a downstairs storage space). So sooner or later you're going to have to make a move ... it'd also be boring as all hell to just watch people stabbing heads for hours from a sedentary position. Yawn-o-rama. Things need to happen, people need to move, danger needs to occur - chaos must bubble up and consume our protagonists. The real-world solution to a problem doesn't necessarily make for compelling TV. :D

Agreed on Father Gabriel - good to see him getting stuck in, and vowing to do what Rick needs him to do. His arc is, in some ways, complete in that regard. He's come around to Rick's way of thinking ... ... sorta. He's got a lot to learn, but he's now taking on the reality of the situation and seeing what needs to be done.

And aye, I'll say it again - Deanna flippin' rocked in this episode. With so many strong characters in this show you can easily overlook one of the newer characters - but boy, did Deanna go out strong. It was a hell of a moment that got my skin prickling.

Another thing I've rather enjoyed this half season - the music - particularly in this episode towards the end (and as the tower collapsed at the end of 6x07). I've been digging the vibe. I felt that maybe the music had softened a bit (for sore lack of a better term) in the previous season (although I'll see if my assessment is maintained when I re-watch S5 pretty soon, having just snatched it up on Blu-Ray) ... but in these recent episodes the music has been great. :cool:

...

On the entirely separate issue of Into The Badlands/AMC's scheduling - yeah - what a slap in the fan's faces. I see what they're trying to do - they want their new show to succeed - but getting in the way of your #1 show is a dumb idea. It'll be fascinating to see how the viewing figures change now that TWD is on a break and ITB has to stand on its own two feet (the third episode got over 5m viewers ... I wonder how many stopped watching after that A/S/D scene with the bikers).

Fortunately it'll be business as usual come February 14th, but geez - talk about shooting yourself in the foot. They've stoked resentment against ITB, which is unfair to all the people who worked on the show itself - these sort of scheduling decisions will be way out of the hands of the people who actually create the shows - and forcing TWD fans to watch ITB just for a preview scene (that, quite frankly, should have been shown at the end of TWD's credits in the first place - just as they did here in the UK) or some other tidbit is damn cheeky. I hope that AMC recognise the backlash to that scheduling decision they've taken in the last three weeks and seek to never repeat it again.

TWD has Talking Dead afterwards - it's a two-part package - and TD gets the prime slot after TWD's most prime of all slot (if that makes sense), whereas the slot after Talking Dead is getting a bit late on a Sunday night, so I understand that it's not an ideal place to start a new show, but wedging ITB between TWD and TD is not a good idea from an audience perspective.

[facestabber]

I liked Tovah's pitch about being immune to the bite. At some point I think that would be an interesting arc. I think that's what is done in Znation but at least TWD can breath life into it.

[Trin]

I'm one and a half feet in the hater camp on this and the last episode (which I'll address together). I enjoyed them for the most part but I'm not thrilled at the writing and plausability of several twists.

Pros -
- The zombie threat is real! Great twist having the tower fall and breach the wall. Totally digging the zombies swarming into Alexandria! This was probably the most Romero-esque feeling TWD has generated!
- Morgan's talk with Carol and Rick about his stance on killing was very good. He defended his position well and made his actions seem plausible.
- Carl has been refreshingly centered and shown an ability to man-up. Carl is a great example of Morgan's ideology done right.
- Having Glenn back in action has been fun to watch. It feels like we have an ace up our sleeve with him out there.
- A lot of the characters (not all, obviously) are acting sane and sensible.
- The acting and character interactions have been very well executed.
- The action scenes have also been very well executed.
- I liked Eugene in these episodes for some reason I cannot quite pinpoint.
- Tara giving Rick the finger was the feel-good moment of the season.

Cons
- The entire Ron plot is weak. They wasted screen time foreshadowing his dickishness and it's been tedious watching it unfold. Having the group put at risk over it is the last straw. Having the group repeatedly put at risk over Alexandrian's ineptness and pettiness is getting old.
- Carol takes matters into her own hands....again... and divides and imperils the group. *sigh*
- Rosita needed to shoot the Wolf guy, not give him guns.
- Yes, the Glenn thing... I don't mind them saving him from insurmountable odds. But don't use tricky camera angles and misdirection in HOW it is filmed to mislead us. They could've shown Nicholas getting ripped to shreds on top of him surrounded by zombies and the same sense of peril would've been present without the casual jerking-around.
- And, as a result of the Glenn thing... I thought Deanna was going to be okay. Why? Because the scene where she was injured never showed her getting bitten, but it DID show a zombie's hand near the wound site, and the wound looked like it COULD have been a rip from a hand with fingernail marks instead of teeth marks. Thank you TWD for making me hyper-questioning of everything I'm shown.
- The zombie guts things. As shootmeinthehead commented, "It's simply dumb ... The logic fail with that nonsense is just immense." If it worked they'd use it regularly. And in this particular situation there's NO WAY those kids and baby are going to pull it off, and any idiot would know that. Plus, you really only needed one or two of them to do it. The rest could blockade the stairs and hide. So it doesn't even make sense to try it.
- If you hide under a dumpster the zombies all wander off but if you hide in a bedroom they won't??
- Alexandria's preparation was crap. No guns distributed around? No secondary defenses/fortified buildings? No plan for who goes where in a breach? There was widespread concern for the walls failing yet NO ONE DID ANYTHING to prepare for it??

As a husband, parent and a regular guy I'm just imagining Jessie's reaction to Rick suggesting they cover themselves in zombie guts and go for a stroll.
Jess - "You want us to what?"
Rick - "Don't worry, I've done this before."
Jess - "And that makes it better? Why am I just now hearing this?"
Rick - "It's the only way. We're not safe here."
Jess - "Yeah, I don't think so. If you like zombie guts so much why don't you get your sweaty ass out there and kill zombies until the stairway is blocked with zombie carcass. Or better yet, go wander out and get the CARS you said we COULDN'T get because we COULDN'T get past the zombies."

[DayoftheZ]

I have really enjoyed this season for the most part. I remain a little disappointed that Glenn didnt die when he "died" because I feel robbed of a cool and shocking death. We havent really had a bolt out of the blue death since Dale and Glenn going out that way would have matched any other TWD death.

I have just finished a marathon of Seasons 1-5 and agree that TWD is best watched in bulk because it really is a "bigger picture" story. Waiting a week (or now two months) for a story to play out is a bit tedious but watching one after the other is very satisfying.

The thing I dug about this episode was the ants crawling in at the same time as the walkers, it also answered the riddle as to why Sam loves cookies so much. Seeing Negans group was also great but like somebody said earlier up this is where I lost interest in the comics so I hope they stray as far away from the comics as possible.

By the way Sam has chosen the wrong time to realise he needs the toilet.

[shootemindehead]

It wouldn't be all that easy to use the 'gut sheets' approach all the time. You'd have to constantly replenish the gore, and it's not safe in the long run - Kirkman mentioned the risk of falling ill by doing that - plus it's ridiculously disgusting, so I doubt you'd want to be roaming about covered in that gunk (in soaring temperatures to boot!) all the damn time. It's for extreme emergency situations only. It's been used, what, four times in six seasons? Three times intentionally.

Of course it would.

You could bring your clean poncho with you when out on a run and if things get hairy and the opportunity presents itself, go camo. It wouldn't be that hard.

Also, by "all the time" I mean they would use it "all the time" when the need arises. In other words, they could have done it to get someone out of the siege they've just been through, after the botched cattle run, to get through the horde at the walls of Alexandria and then draw the wall zombies away, instead of just sitting around wondering what they were going to do.

That's the problem with this deus ex approach to this smell nonsense. If you're going to go with it, then it needs to be a thing that you do on a consistent basis. Not just something that cheaply helps the writer out of situation they've penned themselves into.

Besides, it isn't that hard to write around those situations.

As for Kirkman mentioning illness, that's also bunkum, as clearly that's not an issue in the show either as, weekly, the characters hack and slash their way through zombies with gay abandon, regularly covering themselves in their blood and gore.

The problem with that kind of writing is that it takes no care to consider future scenarios. If zombies can smell humans, they would have smelt Glenn under the bin. They would have smelt the characters hiding under the cars in series 2 and no doubt the the characters are going to be in situations down the line where they could be "smelled" too

If they're sticking with this shitty idea, at least be consistent.


I do agree that the 'science' reasoning behind it is a bit iffy - but the 'die from a bite' science is just as curious when everyone's infected already as it is ... but I don't let that spoil my good time either.

There's no science behind it at all. It makes no sense whatsoever. Nobody, especially not a rotting corpse, would be able to "smell" a "clean" human amongst the powerful odors of putrid, rotting, flesh.

Half of them don't even have noses?

It's just mind numbing.

[MinionZombie]

Trin - Deanna's wound looked exactly like a bite should, from what I saw. :rockbrow:

That was an interesting bit. When Deanna escaped those walkers when Rick pulled her up - and I saw that one chomping away just near her back - I thought "boy, that was a mighty lucky escape!" ... so when it's revealed that she was bitten it was oddly satisfying, for lack of a better term. I didn't want Deanna to die - there are few characters I actively want dead (aside from villains, and then Ron and Sam of late :elol:) - but everything about her final scenes/moments in the show was excellent.

I do agree that there needs to be some tighter writing in terms of how Alexandria wasn't properly prepared. However, the trouble is that it's such a compressed time over which all these events have occurred in these eight episodes (like what, two days?!). They've not had a chance to train the Alexandrians in how to shoot - and you don't want some chump who doesn't know how to shoot a gun running around armed. They're just as likely to kill you (or themselves) as a walker. I think they could have clarified that lack of time in that regard ... but there were moments of downtime, albeit brief, in 6x07 ... so they could do with being a bit more consistent in mapping out some of these issues. Rick mentioned getting Alexandria sorted and stowed away, but the plan kind of got lost in other things (such as the silly and irksome overuse of 'big speeches' in that one particular episode ... 6x05 or 6x06, I forget which).

It'd be nifty if they hired somebody in the writer's room specifically for the task of saying "But what about?" (e.g. "But what about Rick's plan to strengthen Alexandria?" or "But what about trying to thin out the herd with knives on sticks a la Season 4?") - to help smooth over some of these little inconsistencies in the storytelling. There's room for improvement on that front.

This said though, the amount of stuff they get right far outweighs the slip ups (some of which are fleeting). However, as we've seen, they always seek to learn from their mistakes and aim to improve the show in areas where it needs improvement. They don't always address every issue (aye, if you're going to have someone fall over, it needs to be staged better and as an unavoidable encounter rather than a dumb accident - even if such things do happen in life, hell, I badly twisted my ankle walking slowly down a very gentle slope a few years ago!) ... but they do make changes and - what's even better - they look for ways to keep it fresh, to get the best material out of the comics and change things up along the way. Season 4 was a reaction to the mistakes of Season 3B. Season 2B paid off the padding of Season 2A. 4x08 gave us what we were bizarrely promised (but never received) in 3x16, and did so in extraordinary style (4x08 is one of the all-time great episodes IMHO).

As zombie fans, with TWD, we're sitting pretty like Scrooge McDuck on his mountain of gold, luxuriously afforded the chance to nitpick over nickels and dimes. ;)

...

Ooh, here's some Behind The Scenes pictures from 6A.

http://dailydead.com/behind-the-scenes-photos-from-the-walking-dead-season-6s-first-half/

e.g.
http://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Walking_Dead_6_BTSt12.jpg

[Trin]

Trin - Deanna's wound looked exactly like a bite should, from what I saw. :rockbrow:
Yes... Yes it did. And Glenn *looked* like he got his guts ripped out. That's my point. My brain is now trained to second-guess what I'm seeing to figure out what trick they are trying to pull.

My first instinct upon seeing the bite was, "Oh, dang, she got bit....crap."
My second instinct was, "Heeeeey... I didn't actually SEE her get bit. Fool me once..."
So I watched the opening again and still didn't see her get bit. I saw a zombie briefly clawing at her side. I looked at the wound again. Twisted my head around and squinted real hard. Yeah, it kinda looks like it *could* be a zombie chunk clawed out of her instead of bitten. "I wonder...."

Yes, it's totally bonkers. But, again, that's my point. They have me second-guessing stuff based on their own duplicitous filming trickery.

And regarding the zombie gut camo, I wholesale agree with shootmeinthehead ... it's not that the zombie guts thing is bad (okay, it's dumber than f*&k) but if it's gonna be a thing, use it. Make it part of your general problem solving arsenal. Or make up a better reason why you DON'T use it more.

I agree that we're enjoying a zombie panacea compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago. But if you'd told me then that today we'd have a weekly zombie-based post-apocalypse TV show on ... I'd have expected to be WAY more into it than I am with TWD.

[Moon Knight]

I'm ok with the guts trick.

[JDP]

The camouflaging yourself with zombie guts idea, whether you think it is dumb or not, has been a feature of the series from very early on, so I have no problem with it, but as some have already pointed out, the problem comes from how inconsistently it is used by the human characters. If it is really so effective, we should expect it to be used more often. However, it is only used as a get-out-of-jail-free card when the characters are in very tight situations.

By the way, way more difficult to accept than camouflaging yourself from the zombies by covering yourself with their guts is the also fairly early idea of camouflaging yourself by just keeping a couple of zombies around you without them attacking you and alerting the others of your presence, introduced with Michonne's character. If that works then all you had to do is capture a couple of zombies, knock their teeth out, cut their arms and keep the zombies close to you with ropes or chains, then you could have gone in and out of Alexandria despite the zombie blockade. No need at all to go through the disgusting process of smearing zombie guts all over yourself to cover your smell. I enjoy this show, I think it is one of the most entertaining things to happen to TV, but it is true that it has several plot holes and logical fallacies and contradictions. Sometimes it is necessary to overlook them to fully enjoy the show.

[Craig]

The camouflaging yourself with zombie guts idea, whether you think it is dumb or not, has been a feature of the series from very early on, so I have no problem with it, but as some have already pointed out, the problem comes from how inconsistently it is used by the human characters. If it is really so effective, we should expect it to be used more often. However, it is only used as a get-out-of-jail-free card when the characters are in very tight situations.
The Monopoly analogy is exactly how I saw the 'masking' methods - you'd think at least the seasoned main characters would've adopted these camouflage tactics more regularly and in a variety of situations.
The inconsistencies and stupid decisions/character behaviours are becoming particularly apparent this season in my opinion. 'Tiresome' is probably the best word to describe how, not all, but a lot of it seems. The bottom line is I really want to enjoy The Walking Dead - sometimes the show creators/writers make it easy and sometimes they make it bloody difficult. Safe to stay I'm gonna stick with it, but I needed to air these gripes in public.

[MinionZombie]

A quick note on the "Into The Badlands" issue:

That show went from 5.1m (ITB 1x03 following TWD 6x08) to 2.4m (ITB 1x04 with no TWD episode to be linked to).

Hardly surprising. I wonder what 1x05 got - did it drop further, or has it found it's actual core audience number?

[facestabber]

A quick note on the "Into The Badlands" issue:

That show went from 5.1m (ITB 1x03 following TWD 6x08) to 2.4m (ITB 1x04 with no TWD episode to be linked to).

Hardly surprising. I wonder what 1x05 got - did it drop further, or has it found it's actual core audience number?

AMC deserved this. That was a cheap move they pulled on us TWD and TD fans.

[MinionZombie]

AMC deserved this. That was a cheap move they pulled on us TWD and TD fans.

Agreed.

I understand the decision to try that scheduling setup - but the amount of annoyance caused to fans (of their two biggest hitters, no less), and the ill will that was caused, was not a proportionate cost in any way - and I personally think it was a really dumb move on AMC's part, one that I'd hope they won't make again. It even screwed over Comic Book Men fans (yes, there's not many of us, but I'm one of them) with three episodes getting shafted to 2016 when they should have aired in November.

2.4m is still a solid figure and it generally did pretty well, but it just goes to show how uncommitted to ITB those additional millions of viewers were. They only stuck around for the TWD content and not ITB.

Doing it for one episode - the premiere episode of ITB - you can almost figure as being okay (e.g. if ITB was going to have a normal air date of Monday night - so you kick off with a one-two premiere Sunday/Monday night with a one off wedge between TWD and TD) ... but three episodes? Not to mention the last three episodes before Xmas, including the mid-season finale? What a bone-headed decision!

They might have sucked up a little extra cash in those three weeks, but it ain't worth the trouble and disrespects the fans of your biggest (and most profitable) draw.

[JDP]

Agreed.

I understand the decision to try that scheduling setup - but the amount of annoyance caused to fans (of their two biggest hitters, no less), and the ill will that was caused, was not a proportionate cost in any way - and I personally think it was a really dumb move on AMC's part, one that I'd hope they won't make again. It even screwed over Comic Book Men fans (yes, there's not many of us, but I'm one of them) with three episodes getting shafted to 2016 when they should have aired in November.

2.4m is still a solid figure and it generally did pretty well, but it just goes to show how uncommitted to ITB those additional millions of viewers were. They only stuck around for the TWD content and not ITB.

Doing it for one episode - the premiere episode of ITB - you can almost figure as being okay (e.g. if ITB was going to have a normal air date of Monday night - so you kick off with a one-two premiere Sunday/Monday night with a one off wedge between TWD and TD) ... but three episodes? Not to mention the last three episodes before Xmas, including the mid-season finale? What a bone-headed decision!

They might have sucked up a little extra cash in those three weeks, but it ain't worth the trouble and disrespects the fans of your biggest (and most profitable) draw.

Unfortunately, the new show is paying for AMC's aggressive pushiness. I hope they learned the lesson and stop intruding on other shows just to promote new shows. It is not a good idea. Let new shows stand on their own. If they are good, they will eventually gather a following. No need to be so intrusive on other already successful shows with a large audience.