TWD 7x03 "The Cell" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x03 "The Cell" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Alrick Riley (has previously pulled Directing duties on TWD with episode 6x14).
Written by: Angela Kang (has previously written/co-written 13 episodes of TWD - this is her fourteenth).

[AcesandEights]

I hope Wyld starts watching the show again, I am breathlessly awaiting his critique of Negan's means of grooming his henchmen...

Other than that, solid episode...man, I must be sick of the main group, because I am really appreciating the last two episodes. Even if Negan's...methods...are a bit goofy, I LOVE the characterization of Dwight, very well done.

Also, is ANYONE surprised that even Negan is lovestruck by the marysueism that is Daryl? Feh :bored:

[Moon Knight]

Wyld can stay far away from the show. I'm torn with this one. On one hand I enjoyed the story told with Dwight but on the other hand, it felt kind of lazy how they explained his experience with Negan and Iron compared to the book. I really hope they don't skip on some cool Sanctuary moments. Kinda bummed on the direction they are heading into. On its own though, I liked this one.

I'm ready to get back to the main group. I have a feeling the show is gonna stick to this formula for a while considering how many characters we follow now. I fear we will get a Hilltop exclusive as well as a Tara/Heath bottle episode. Sigh.

Also, that damn song, man, haha.

[babomb]

Negan reminds me of a kid I grew up with. His parents paid to have a skate ramp built in their yard. The kid held it over everyones head. Treated people horribly and they took it because they didn't want to be one of the kids that was banned. The kid busted his face open and the ramp was removed real fast. You never really saw the little fucker after that. He quit skating entirely. I always thought Bam Margera was him grown up. Apparently he got stuck in the parallel universe as Negan though.

When he was goin on about Dwights "Super hot wife and her super hot sister" it took all the wind out of his sails IMO. Neither of them were super hot for one thing, and the way he got pissed just telling the story about his "super hot fiance" taking off was just sad. Negan is just a douche-bag of Jersey Shore proportion!? It don't seem right.

I'm not trashing the show here. This season has been great so far. I'm just surprised by that scene and the way it seemed to portray Negan as a simple playground bully with an egg shell ego.

[MinionZombie]

Fascinating stuff for Dwight here - a prisoner of his own decisions, compromised by his actions, and teetering on the edge of outright villainy.

I suppose Daryl is a novelty for Negan - Negan's surrounded by yes men and whimpering helpers, or gurning "Kings" happy in their middle management positions. Even Rick cracked (but, considering what he was about to be made to do, it's hardly surprising!) ... whereas Daryl is intriguing to Negan. It wouldn't be realistic to Daryl to have said he was "Negan" in this episode, it's just a bit too soon for that - but he was crying by the end, so the 'treatment' is 'working'.

Kind of a depressing, bleak episode, really. A few fiddles with Negan's dialogue at the odd point might have smoothed over a crack or two, but good in general.

Next week's episode is an extended one, so there'll be a lot of ground covered in that I'd imagine. I think we'll be seeing Alexandria again, and perhaps other stories with other people ... but we shall see.

[JDP]

Correct me if I am misremembering this: but didn't Daryl offer Dwight & company the option of going back to Alexandria with him? Yet here they are willingly coming back to the tyrannical Saviors they were desperately trying to get away from, and suffering the consequences of their strange decision (Dwight with half of his face scarred & his wife having to be with his boss.) It looks to me that Dwight is pretty much a very short-sighted fellow who can't see how many options he really has out there besides being with the Saviors. It is not like he claims, that "there's nowhere to go", as if the only option was the Saviors or nothing. When he first met Daryl the Alexandrians had no idea who the Saviors were. So Dwight knows very well that there are groups out there where Negan's "empire" hasn't reached. He could easily have joined them and warned them of who the Saviors are, their numbers and locations, and put them on their guard against them. Anything but go back to such a cruel bunch of hoodlums they were trying to get away from in the first place!

[facestabber]

Correct me if I am misremembering this: but didn't Daryl offer Dwight & company the option of going back to Alexandria with him? Yet here they are willingly coming back to the tyrannical Saviors they were desperately trying to get away from, and suffering the consequences of their strange decision (Dwight with half of his face scarred & his wife having to be with his boss.) It looks to me that Dwight is pretty much a very short-sighted fellow who can't see how many options he really has out there besides being with the Saviors. It is not like he claims, that "there's nowhere to go", as if the only option was the Saviors or nothing. When he first met Daryl the Alexandrians had no idea who the Saviors were. So Dwight knows very well that there are groups out there where Negan's "empire" hasn't reached. He could easily have joined them and warned them of who the Saviors are, their numbers and locations, and put them on their guard against them. Anything but go back to such a cruel bunch of hoodlums they were trying to get away from in the first place!

Sounds right. Show is trying to get us to buy that Negan is everywhere, but I'd think a full tank of gas in one of those motorcycles could get you far enough away to never see a Savior again. I guess the security aspect similar to the prison keeps people around some what. Sure Negan is a murdering dick, but you don't have to worry about being eaten alive in your sleep. Guess its a risk vs reward mind game. Your analysis of Dwight is accurate.

[MinionZombie]

Well, when Dwight and Daryl met, they didn't hang around for long and didn't get to know each other that well - so why should Dwight believe anything Daryl says?

The Saviours are like a cult, run by a tyrant. Think of these countries that are a mess, ruled over by a dictator, and yet for decades nothing happens to change that ... sooner or later change comes, but a group of people are more open to subservience than you'd like to think. The will and power to make the change isn't as easily come by as you'd hope.

The average people in the Saviour's gaff are desperate and scared. They'll have likely been there from fairly early on, strong enough to survive for a little while (probably not moving too far from their homes), but were then picked up and found someone to lead them and put a roof over their heads and provide that protection. The Saviours are the mob of the zombie apocalypse, running a racket. Step out of line and the consequences are severe - you see what their methodolgy is: fear is primary in their toolset.

There'll be some in Negan's gang who are doing quite nicely, thank you very much - especially if they're enjoying a warm bed, food, time with a woman etc. Compared to eating road kill and barely surviving on the road (and all the perils and dangers that encompasses), there'll be plenty of folks not willing to do anything different. Some will see it for the hell it is and want out, some will see it for the hell it is and do nothing, and some won't give a shit because they're not doing too badly out of it.

Interesting stuff with Gordon, too - the guy that Dwight shoots in the back and brings back to be on the zombie wall/fence. The Saviours will exploit any weakness for their own ends.

...

TWD 7x03 Memes:


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ksWPvGFOEYA/WCCa3OokB_I/AAAAAAAAE9M/CrFUPF_QQAYPFPGSQI8mR60nm-DArvdpACLcB/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Daryl_Stop_Playing_ One_Song_Radio_Easy_Street_7x03_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[facestabber]

Daryl and Dwight did have a short interaction but Daryls actions should have established some integrity and trust. It certainly did with Sherry. That just highlights how weak minded Dwight is.

[JDP]

Well, when Dwight and Daryl met, they didn't hang around for long and didn't get to know each other that well - so why should Dwight believe anything Daryl says?

How about the fact that Daryl could have killed them, taken everything they had and left but did not do that and instead helped them escape the Saviors, putting his own life on the line? Instead of taking advantage of such a great opportunity, Dwight and his wife absurdly "repay" Daryl's troubles by stealing his bike and crossbow and leave him stranded... only to return back to the very gang they were trying to get away from! This pair do not make much sense. Quite frankly, both of them deserve to die. Preferably by Daryl's hands. Had they not made such stupid decisions they would likely have altered the outcome of future events in favor of the Alexandrians. All they had to do is go to Alexandria with Daryl and explain to everyone what happened, why they are defecting, and who these ruthless "Saviors" really are and how they operate. With this valuable information the Alexandrians would have been more careful in how to strike back at these thugs.

[facestabber]

How about the fact that Daryl could have killed them, taken everything they had and left but did not do that and instead helped them escape the Saviors, putting his own life on the line? Instead of taking advantage of such a great opportunity, Dwight and his wife absurdly "repay" Daryl's troubles by stealing his bike and crossbow and leave him stranded... only to return back to the very gang they were trying to get away from! This pair do not make much sense. Quite frankly, both of them deserve to die. Preferably by Daryl's hands. Had they not made such stupid decisions they would likely have altered the outcome of future events in favor of the Alexandrians. All they had to do is go to Alexandria with Daryl and explain to everyone what happened, why they are defecting, and who these ruthless "Saviors" really are and how they operate. With this valuable information the Alexandrians would have been more careful in how to strike back at these thugs.

whoa whoa whoa there. Lets keep Sherry around a bit. She's easy on the eyes. Overall this episode was just meh for me. Certainly not an episode I need to rewatch.

[MinionZombie]

The Termites were all lovely and welcoming until they started eating folks. :p

Trust is hard to come by in the zombie apocalypse.

One little additional thing I quite liked in this episode was there being music and TV in it. It'd drive me barmy not having different (or any) forms of media in my life in the zombie apocalypse (assuming I was living in an Alexandria type place where I had leisure time!), so it was fun seeing Dwight watching some telly, and music being played (albeit to torturous effect).

It was interesting what they were doing to Daryl - they stripped him of his clothes, so he's vulnerable, exposed, cold, but also that's a piece of his identity taken away. Then they're messing with his head with the music and interrupting his sleep. They're feeding him dog food sandwiches for crying out loud (although, considering he easily ate mud snakes and worms in season 4B, a dog food sandwich is like fine dining!), and then they stick him in that leisure suit thing with the "A" on it (there's that letter again in TWD). They tease him, tempt him (I wonder if the chunky guy deliberately left the door open? - Negan and his men were all ready for him in the motorcycle yard), and seek to remove all of his will and identity ... but this is Daryl we're talking about. If it was someone else they'd have cracked already, or perhaps been more willing to sell themselves out in the short term - but Daryl didn't have an easy time of it growing up, he's senn terrible things and experienced terrible people. He's been a bullied underling, so this kind of treatment isn't necessarily as shocking to him than it would be to others.

I doubt anyone's really stood up to Negan in a long time - he's probably experiencing a bit of malaise - so Daryl is something very interesting and new to him. He's all about the performance and theatricality, so he'd be drawn to an intriguing new play thing to bat around ... if you'll pardon the expression.

...

And just in case you wanna get your torturous, brainwashing groove on...
JoQ4GidQP-k
:D

[facestabber]

Minion I think Negan sees the character and skills of Daryl. If he can turn him, he has an amazingly loyal right hand man. Of course the fact Daryl's loyalty would switch is a contradiction to my original thought......Lets just say Negan admires strength as long as its controllable.

[Moon Knight]

Thanks for the song again, Minion, made my day haha.

[JDP]

By the way, does anyone remember if the word "zombie/s" was ever mentioned in any episode of Who's the Boss? If it ever came up then it is a huge contradiction to the fact that no one in TWD seems to know the word "zombie/s".

Another thing: Inquiring minds want to know whether Tony Danza and the rest of the cast became zomb... er, I mean "walkers", or are they alive and hiding somewhere??? Maybe it is time for a special guest appearance on TWD.

[facestabber]

Thanks for the song again, Minion, made my day haha.

That is just a way too happy song to exist. Lets lynch Minion

- - - Updated - - -


By the way, does anyone remember if the word "zombie/s" was ever mentioned in any episode of Who's the Boss? If it ever came up then it is a huge contradiction to the fact that no one in TWD seems to know the word "zombie/s".

Another thing: Inquiring minds want to know whether Tony Danza and the rest of the cast became zomb... er, I mean "walkers", or are they alive and hiding somewhere??? Maybe it is time for a special guest appearance on TWD.

Dude I'm right there with you about celebrity guest appearance. Would it be too hokey to have a seen with Rick and Sigourney Weaver, "Hey Ripley(winks), I know this isn't LV 426 but would you mind helping us with these walkers? Or maybe, We're fresh out of Pulse Rifles but here's a shotty........Oh my inner nerd came out

[rongravy]

Mmm mmm, dogfood sammiches...

[Moon Knight]

Celebrities appearing as themselves would be realistic yet very damn hokey haha. That said I wouldn't cringe at a Ripley cameo.

[JDP]

Celebrities appearing as themselves would be realistic yet very damn hokey haha. That said I wouldn't cringe at a Ripley cameo.

They do not necessarily have to appear alive, though. For example, sticking with the Who's the Boss example, how about the zombified cast of that sitcom appearing in the midst of a crowd of zombies. Now we finally get the answer of what happened to them :skull:

[AcesandEights]

For example, sticking with the Who's the Boss example, how about the zombified cast of that sitcom appearing in the midst of a crowd of zombies. Now we finally get the answer of what happened to them :skull:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/OrlandoGuitaristChurchMusician-SkepticalFace_zpstaiuleye.png

[kidgloves]

I'm enjoying it so far but this episode just confirmed to me that Daryl needs to die. And soon. The writers have weakened Negans character by sucking up to Daryl. Negan has just caved in two of the main characters heads yet he lets Daryl live. Why? Not only that but he stands up to Negan again. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Kill Daryl. Get rid of Reedus and let the story breathe again.

[rongravy]

They do not necessarily have to appear alive, though. For example, sticking with the Who's the Boss example, how about the zombified cast of that sitcom appearing in the midst of a crowd of zombies. Now we finally get the answer of what happened to them :skull:
With their careers, probably not a hard sale...
You could probably even get Milano to flop out a sweet zombified titty.

I'm enjoying it so far but this episode just confirmed to me that Daryl needs to die. And soon. The writers have weakened Negans character by sucking up to Daryl. Negan has just caved in two of the main characters heads yet he lets Daryl live. Why? Not only that but he stands up to Negan again. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Kill Daryl. Get rid of Reedus and let the story breathe again.

Maybe:
He might be taking Carl's place as the object of Negan's affection like in the comic, or whatever?

[MinionZombie]

Maybe Negan will try and get Daryl laid? :lol: Remember how Negan paraded his wives in front of Carl in the comic?

Good point about the challenge and use of being able to turn Daryl ... it's not necessarily such an extraordinary idea ... he went along with his brother on a variety of things, he was being dragged along, sure, but he was tagging along under an abuser's wing. That said, Negan will have to work hard to get Daryl to turn.

I think there's the intrigue of a challenge for Negan, and the lure of a capable individual - it might be worth the effort - he's turned so many people over to his cause, why not try and step up his game?

As for the episode in general, I would have preferred it if there had been a separate 'B Story' - we dipped back and forth between Daryl and Dwight, but they're both a part of each other's stories in this episode as well ... but it's a tricky one ... you have to show the gradual debasement and torture to get the power of it across, but then you're sucking up time. It'll be interesting to see what stories we get in next week's extended episode (although, that said, this time last year the extended 6x04 was purely about Morgan). Perhaps the pacing of this episode is partly down to the pacing of following episodes. You've got so many different groups of characters, some of them quite new (so you have to introduce them properly - entire communities to understand), so there's a lot of fresh work for the writers to do this season.

Figuring out the structure of your story, pacing the plot points, is a very tricky task. You can't always dictate everything, sometimes the story you're telling demands you tell things in a particular way. It's just how it is. Try and force it down a different (or even wrong) path, and you'll find yourself having all manner of knock-on effects and problems you've got to solve - and you might even end up sacrificing things you'd wanted to keep in order to try and make those changes that the story is willing you not to make for its own sake.

[shootemindehead]

Jesus...that bleedin song.

I'm sitting here with it floating around my head all day. Last week it was the advert in 'Halloween III'. This week it's feckin Easy Street.

I'm going mental.

[facestabber]

Jesus...that bleedin song.

I'm sitting here with it floating around my head all day. Last week it was the advert in 'Halloween III'. This week it's feckin Easy Street.

I'm going mental.

6 more days till Halloween, halloween

[MinionZombie]

6 more days till Halloween, halloween

"Six more days till easy street, easy street, easy street, six more days till the world's so sweet, silver shamrock!" :p

Audio torture mashup.

[Moon Knight]

I like Daryl. I do understand the hate and as a comics purist I have a small part of dislike for him for diminishing many other characters because of his presence. However, Daryl has once again aquired someone else's story here so to me it's not damaging Negan. In fact, in context to the show this is probably the smarter choice for now but not sure about the long run. I have a love/hate relationship with Daryl but I'm a fan. Should Daryl die already? Absolutely. Will he? Doubt it.

[AcesandEights]

I like Daryl. I do understand the hate.

He is a mary sue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue) to the Nth degree, and mary sues eventually kill storytelling, especially if this show is going to lean heavily on the elements of tension and horror. It's that simple.

[MinionZombie]

He is a mary sue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue) to the Nth degree, and mary sues eventually kill storytelling, especially if this show is going to lean heavily on the elements of tension and horror. It's that simple.

And let's talk hard, cynical economics. There are a vast swathe of Daryl fans. Whether the "if Daryl dies we riot (i.e. stop watching)" would actually happen or not is debateable (I'm a Daryl fan, but I'm a fan of pretty much everyone on the show, so I'd personally keep watching), but the risk is there. If less people watch, that means the advertising revenue drops, which means the production budgets drop, which means the show either has to cut back on episodes (not necessarily a bad thing, but not as likely to happen) or the whole thing has to get cheaper-looking (a bad thing, and perhaps more likely to happen).

Being that we're now in a period of the story where the world is opening up - a community, a society, is coming back together - you need those dollar bills to keep rolling in to pay for all of it.

[facestabber]

3 episodes in to season 1 I end up at same hotel as Reedus in Boston. I was a fan cause of BDS but we talked TWD. Offered to buy the man a drink, he accepted. So I sat there doing shots of Irish with him. Learned couple things. Absolutely friendly and a genuine guy. He can drink. Lung cancer may get him. And he even spoiled(shh) bits of info from future shows. Then Flanery showed up and I was too tipsy to hang. But my point here is, I like the man and I like Daryl. I can never root for his demise. Steps off soapbox

[UndeadHippo]

back to the old tropes with a vehicle crash (this time a bike)

don't worry Facestabber, you're not the only daryl fan. rumour has it there's a guy going around riding his bike, using his crossbow and wearing his clothes. Dwight has a total man-crush on Daryl lol

for me the coolest part of the episode was with Dwight actually. The field of crippled walkers, all with their legs or spines snapped (great work by Nicotero as always) made me go "huh?" the slow reveal of the blood splatter (again- Huh?) and the the reveal of walkers on the overpass blindly shambling over the edge to land in a crumpled heap. excellent payoff.

I do agree that Daryl is being used to substitute for another character here, but that may be because of the uncomfortable "grooming" aspect of the original storyline. They want us to like/hate Negan, not Hate/Hate him as the undercurrent may well invoke that in a lot of folks.

If Daryl dies we riot...ok, sure...but what if Daryl turns? becomes the Vader to Emperor Negan? that could have some serious story potential right there.

[MinionZombie]

I do agree that Daryl is being used to substitute for another character here, but that may be because of the uncomfortable "grooming" aspect of the original storyline. They want us to like/hate Negan, not Hate/Hate him as the undercurrent may well invoke that in a lot of folks.

If Daryl dies we riot...ok, sure...but what if Daryl turns? becomes the Vader to Emperor Negan? that could have some serious story potential right there.

1) That's a really interesting thought on the character switch-out. Whether that's part of the case or not, we don't know, but I hadn't considered this. There are some things in the comic that are grim enough, but when you see them brought to life in the show they take on a whole new dimension of grim - it's not just black and white pictures any more - now it's in full colour with living, breathing people performing it in 24 frames per second. So, yeah, something like that could easily take on a tone that isn't wanted.

2) Wouldn't that be something?! I doubt it'll ever really happen, though ... maybe he'll pretend to turn and wait for an opportunity?

Oh, and yeah, the overpass sequence was pretty neat - the F/X work was excellent. Peeling back the layers to reveal a little story that had played out long ago - a bit of implied storytelling - good fun. :thumbsup:

[Moon Knight]

I have a feeling we didn't get the whole story concerning Dwight at the Overpass. How exactly did his bike's tire get smashed like that? Either something was edited out or we may pay that scene another visit down the road.

[JDP]

I have a feeling we didn't get the whole story concerning Dwight at the Overpass. How exactly did his bike's tire get smashed like that? Either something was edited out or we may pay that scene another visit down the road.

I originally thought that the zombie that fell might have damaged the bike, but upon reviewing the scene again the zombie clearly hits the pavement and not the bike.

[MinionZombie]

I have a feeling we didn't get the whole story concerning Dwight at the Overpass. How exactly did his bike's tire get smashed like that? Either something was edited out or we may pay that scene another visit down the road.


I originally thought that the zombie that fell might have damaged the bike, but upon reviewing the scene again the zombie clearly hits the pavement and not the bike.

Aye - what's up with the busted bike wheel? I need information, dang it!

[Moon Knight]

Aye - what's up with the busted bike wheel? I need information, dang it!

They really went out of their way to show us the damaged tire.

[facestabber]

They really went out of their way to show us the damaged tire.

There was a chase scene filmed that was cut.

[AcesandEights]

There was a chase scene filmed that was cut.

Ah, cool. Was that mentioned on Talking Dead? I haven't been watching it this season due to scheduling issues.

[shootemindehead]

If that's the case, it's really clumsy editing. There were plenty of other areas to cut in that episode.

[MinionZombie]

There was a chase scene filmed that was cut.

Really? That's a bit bizarre ... it makes a big continuity issue, and just leaves viewers with a big mystery over wtf happened to his bike. :|

[Moon Knight]

There was a chase scene filmed that was cut.

Was that confirmed? Beacaue in they chase sequence previewed, Dwight had a female Savior with him and in this episode he was dolo.