TWD 7x10 "New Best Friends" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x10 "New Best Friends" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

http://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/TWD-710-07.jpg

Directed by: Jeffrey F. January
Written by: Channing Powell

[AcesandEights]

Kind of feels like the wheels were spinning this week, and things felt a bit silly.

[Harleydude666]

This episode sucked. As a matter of fact the series as a whole is starting to let the cheese factor creep in. I hate the way this new group speaks, it's just plain stupid. I have a feeling this show is not going beyond season 8

[facestabber]

This show will always be my favorite tv adventure. The magic is fading. I didn't hate this episode at all. The Scavengers were dumb. I just don't feel the dread about the apocalypse that the show delivered so well early on.

[JDP]

Why did the Scavengers need to "test" the group again? They already know very well what the Alexandrians are capable of. They were spying on them when Rick and Aaron successfully passed the zombie-infested lake to get to the cache of weapons, something that they themselves did not want to take the risk of doing. So throwing Rick into a pit with a zombie does not prove anything that they aren't already aware of. They know this guy and his group are tough and get things done.

[Moon Knight]

Why did the Scavengers need to "test" the group again? They already know very well what the Alexandrians are capable of. They were spying on them when Rick and Aaron successfully passed the zombie-infested lake to get to the cache of weapons, something that they themselves did not want to take the risk of doing. So throwing Rick into a pit with a zombie does not prove anything that they aren't already aware of. They know this guy and his group are tough and get things done.

Gabriel told Jadis "Rick can do anything".

Decent episode not great.

[MinionZombie]

Gabriel told Jadis "Rick can do anything".

Decent episode not great.

Agreed.

Fetching the supplies from the boat is one thing. Fighting off a spiked and shielded walker with no weapons while trapped inside the bottom of the trash hole is another thing entirely - as we saw, when Rick stumbled on the remains, others have failed the same test.

This episode was more about getting some business in order - such as Ezekiel, after just saying "no" to Rick's request of joined forces, having an encounter with The Saviours in which the situation sours further. Eventually Ezekiel will say yes, but there's a journey to getting to that point - this episode featured a part of that. Likewise we had to get Carol and Daryl back on screen together, and it was interesting to watch him lie to Carol in order to save her from herself. I'd imagine the lie won't last too long, but Carol clearly needs some time to get her head in order - they all deal with the situation in different ways, and slaughtering people and having to put down a psychopathic kid is far from an ordinary situation. It'd be insanely unrealistic to not see someone suffer the mental consequences of such actions. We also needed an intro to 'The Scavengers' (although it sort of feels like one community too many now ... but we need realistic numbers to fight Negan's forces, so...) - and will Tara reveal Oceanside? She'll have to, I reckon.

So a quiet episode, really, getting some business sorted etc. It's a slow build ... hopefully it'll ramp up as 7B progresses ... but I wouldn't be surprised if Season 7 ends on a cliffhanger promising full blown war in Season 8A.

Garbiel's explanation to Rick about what went down at the beginning of the previous episode was clumsy - it wasn't anywhere near clear enough to see that suggestion. I had to go back and specifically look out for the 'second person' rising up in the back seat of the car he drives off in, and it's hard to spot (I completely missed it last week). As such, Gabriel's explanation in this episode felt like a porkie pie, rather than the truth, because it wasn't suggested well enough that Gabriel was acting in 7x09 according to his 7x10 story to Rick.

Was anyone else confused by that whole thing?

...

TWD 7x10 Memes:


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E8qfVUrZrYY/WKsiitmWNQI/AAAAAAAAFGo/4yr87IQRtWI9uo1p32DYZVeey0d4ZY8vACLcB/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_If_Daryl_Dies_Shiva _Riots_7x10_DeadShed.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UcPzPbkPeQ8/WKsikDkOhCI/AAAAAAAAFGs/lINlZK9UCHkuQZSQEr6B2b82jLMykRlnACEw/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Morgan_Stick_Saviou r_Must_Die_Rick_7x10_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[Moon Knight]

MZ, the Gabriel story made sense to me. Everything he said fell into place nicely looking back into what happened during the cold open. It's just that the cold open from last week was a bit clunky to begin with. I saw what they were attempting, it just could have been handled a smidge better. However, I'm just glad it was Gabriel who overheard "Boat" and wrote the note on his own instead of the Scavengers themselves leaving it behind.

[JDP]

Fetching the supplies from the boat is one thing. Fighting off a spiked and shielded walker with no weapons while trapped inside the bottom of the trash hole is another thing entirely - as we saw, when Rick stumbled on the remains, others have failed the same test.

Sounds like overkill. They already know these guys can handle themselves around zombies. At the lake they did not have any guns and yet they managed to get through the zombie trap, which, again, the Scavengers themselves were not willing to risk to get through. It would be different if they had given Rick a totally different dangerous task to see how would he handle it. As it is, it's just superfluous. They already know this guy can deal with zombies, and not just one, but even many of them at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -


Gabriel told Jadis "Rick can do anything".

Decent episode not great.

Sure, but then they should give Rick another totally different dangerous task to test Gabriel's claim, not something that they already know this guy is good at (i.e. dealing with zombies without having recourse to guns.)

[MinionZombie]

Most people who have made it this far into the zombie apocalypse are going to be generally pretty capable. The way I take it is that the boat situation is like an initial audition, a step in the door, while the one-on-one with that messed up walker - and we've seen how someone beforehand failed that test.

Team Rick have come to them asking them to get involved in a war with a formidable enemy that they haven't encountered yet (The Scavengers' M.O. is to steer clear, it seems - no wonder, they live in a garbage dump! :lol:), so they need to know that Rick is an above-average zombie apocalypse survivor. Dealing with some normal walkers chin-deep in water while you've got a boat and back up is one thing - dealing with a walker covered in giant metal spikes with a solid metal helmet protecting its entire head above the nose with no backup and no weapons is an entirely different situation. Even getting close to that thing could mean death by getting skewered.

It's not the cleanest couple of episodes in terms of slotting the pieces together (see my confusion over Gabriel's cold open in 7x09 and his explanation to Rick here in 7x10), but it still works.

[JDP]

Most people who have made it this far into the zombie apocalypse are going to be generally pretty capable. The way I take it is that the boat situation is like an initial audition, a step in the door, while the one-on-one with that messed up walker - and we've seen how someone beforehand failed that test.

Team Rick have come to them asking them to get involved in a war with a formidable enemy that they haven't encountered yet (The Scavengers' M.O. is to steer clear, it seems - no wonder, they live in a garbage dump! :lol:), so they need to know that Rick is an above-average zombie apocalypse survivor. Dealing with some normal walkers chin-deep in water while you've got a boat and back up is one thing - dealing with a walker covered in giant metal spikes with a solid metal helmet protecting its entire head above the nose with no backup and no weapons is an entirely different situation. Even getting close to that thing could mean death by getting skewered.

It's not the cleanest couple of episodes in terms of slotting the pieces together (see my confusion over Gabriel's cold open in 7x09 and his explanation to Rick here in 7x10), but it still works.

You forgot that they had no guns at the lake, which was full of zombies, the boat was full of bullet-holes as well and was sinking into that zombie "pit". There is a reason the Scavengers were not willing to take the risk themselves. This is not an "average" situation. It was an obvious on-purpose death-trap. So the Scavengers were just waiting to see who was brave enough to attempt to get through it and be successful. They know that Rick & company can do it. To throw Rick into yet another type of pit with yet another zombie is not something that I would consider a totally different task. It's almost like two of the same thing. If I want to further test this guy's abilities, I would give him a truly different task that I may not be sure if he can really accomplish, not having him fight yet another zombie.

[slayerized]

You forgot that they had no guns at the lake, which was full of zombies, the boat was full of bullet-holes as well and was sinking into that zombie "pit". There is a reason the Scavengers were not willing to take the risk themselves. This is not an "average" situation. It was an obvious on-purpose death-trap. So the Scavengers were just waiting to see who was brave enough to attempt to get through it and be successful. They know that Rick & company can do it. To throw Rick into yet another type of pit with yet another zombie is not something that I would consider a totally different task. It's almost like two of the same thing. If I want to further test this guy's abilities, I would give him a truly different task that I may not be sure if he can really accomplish, not having him fight yet another zombie.

Rick and Aaron were up against a time crunch to get back to Alexandria when they came upon the lake of zombies so they had to risk it with the bullet-hole filled boat. The Scavengers were under no such time crunch, so why didn't they just go find another boat (without bullet holes) or something else that floats or just take the time to dispatch enough of the zombies to make it across the lake to the houseboat and get the supplies - hell there were enough of them with guns...And if they are afraid of a lake of zombies, are you really going to want them on your side against an army of living Saviors? And the way they talk and walk around all slow and mysterious is just plain lame - these were functioning adults in the pre-apocalypse world yet they sound like they come from 100 years after the fall of civilization...I don't know, I think the writing is starting to get a bit tired I'm sorry to say...

[JDP]

Rick and Aaron were up against a time crunch to get back to Alexandria when they came upon the lake of zombies so they had to risk it with the bullet-hole filled boat. The Scavengers were under no such time crunch, so why didn't they just go find another boat (without bullet holes) or something else that floats or just take the time to dispatch enough of the zombies to make it across the lake to the houseboat and get the supplies - hell there were enough of them with guns...And if they are afraid of a lake of zombies, are you really going to want them on your side against an army of living Saviors? And the way they talk and walk around all slow and mysterious is just plain lame - these were functioning adults in the pre-apocalypse world yet they sound like they come from 100 years after the fall of civilization...I don't know, I think the writing is starting to get a bit tired I'm sorry to say...

Yes, totally agree, man. The Scavengers look like a bunch of chickens if they would not attempt to tackle with the zombie lake trap on their own and had to wait for someone like Rick and Aaron to do it for them. Then how could this bunch of cowards really be of much help against a bunch of ruthless cutthroats like the Saviors??? Seems contradictory.

[shootemindehead]

A weak episode in a weak series this year, it has to be said.

And these new guys? Looks like the writers have been playing too much Fallout recently.

[kidgloves]

I enjoyed parts of this but it felt like an episode of Star Trek to me. 2 poor episodes to start the 2nd part of the season IMHO

[facestabber]

After another watch I can say I hate the scavengers. It got worse second view. Add that Rick Grimes hasn't trusted new people in recent seasons and now is trusting this group? This will backfire.

[MinionZombie]

After another watch I can say I hate the scavengers. It got worse second view. Add that Rick Grimes hasn't trusted new people in recent seasons and now is trusting this group? This will backfire.

Erm, his trust levels were on the rise again - he'd realised that the native Alexandrians were also part of his team, and he was a part of their team. He'd also connected with The Hilltop, and is on friendly enough terms (albeit without a deal being worked out) with The Kingdom. So he's not the closed-off Rick he'd been earlier in season 6.

I will say that the leader of The Scavengers irked me - that arrogant sort of tone she gave off, it's kinda smug, and it grates on me. The 'walking about' bit felt overly theatrical and I wasn't keen on that either.

As for not bothering with the supplies on the boat - that was explained - The Scavengers don't go out of their way to get supplies. They don't get involved in other people's business unless there's a really good reason (or a deal) on the cards. They have some weird philosophy about how they let things come to them.

Generally not that impressed by The Scavengers. I don't hate them, but I don't like them either. Wasn't keen on Oceanside either (except for that one reasonable lady who Tara got on well with). The Hilltop and The Kingdom are both fine and dandy by me - I enjoy those locations and characters.

Season 7 has definitely been the most uneven season since Season 3 - but that said, Season 3 also featured some of the greatest ever episodes (3x01, 3x04, 3x15 to name three). Thus far with Season 7 I've thoroughly enjoyed 7x01, 7x02, 7x03, 7x08, and 7x09. The others have been up and down (7x06 was a decided series-wide low point for me).

[JDP]

As for not bothering with the supplies on the boat - that was explained - The Scavengers don't go out of their way to get supplies. They don't get involved in other people's business unless there's a really good reason (or a deal) on the cards. They have some weird philosophy about how they let things come to them.

But their "explanation" does not make much sense. So they don't care enough about other people's business but yet they spy on them waiting for the opportunity to take things away from others once they have gone through the actual risk of getting them? Ahem! Pardon me, but that just means they are a bunch of cowardly opportunistic thieves, nothing else. Hardly the people that you would expect to want to join a motley "army" that is going to openly butt heads with a much larger group of organized ruthless thugs.

[facestabber]

Erm, his trust levels were on the rise again - he'd realised that the native Alexandrians were also part of his team, and he was a part of their team. He'd also connected with The Hilltop, and is on friendly enough terms (albeit without a deal being worked out) with The Kingdom. So he's not the closed-off Rick he'd been earlier in season 6.

I will say that the leader of The Scavengers irked me - that arrogant sort of tone she gave off, it's kinda smug, and it grates on me. The 'walking about' bit felt overly theatrical and I wasn't keen on that either.

As for not bothering with the supplies on the boat - that was explained - The Scavengers don't go out of their way to get supplies. They don't get involved in other people's business unless there's a really good reason (or a deal) on the cards. They have some weird philosophy about how they let things come to them.

Generally not that impressed by The Scavengers. I don't hate them, but I don't like them either. Wasn't keen on Oceanside either (except for that one reasonable lady who Tara got on well with). The Hilltop and The Kingdom are both fine and dandy by me - I enjoy those locations and characters.

Season 7 has definitely been the most uneven season since Season 3 - but that said, Season 3 also featured some of the greatest ever episodes (3x01, 3x04, 3x15 to name three). Thus far with Season 7 I've thoroughly enjoyed 7x01, 7x02, 7x03, 7x08, and 7x09. The others have been up and down (7x06 was a decided series-wide low point for me).

No doubt necessity has lowered Rick's standards for allies. The Kingdom was easy choice as Morgan was living there. Though philosophically different than Rick, Rick knows that Morgan is a good man and therefore trusts him. Hilltop was somewhat easy as well. Jesus was in the bedroom with naked and sleeping but more importantly vulnerable Rick & Michonne. In a perverted sense Jesus earned their trust by his voyeurism LOL.

Other than numbers what has the garbage kids done to earn Ricks trust? FG looked in complete distress. He wasn't being treated very well IMO. When the saviors eventually find the garbage kids what ethical code do they appear to live by which indicates that they wont simply side with the Saviors? The Saviors can show a larger and much better equipped group than a guy with a hatchet and 6 shooter. Oh and Michonnes Katana. Rick telling stories about the Boogeyman isn't gonna be enough. The garbage folk haven't experienced the brutality of the Saviors. Its similar to Gregory and Hilltop talking about Negan and the Saviors and Team Rick just blew them off as a bump in the road. Rick is too trusting here and he should know better.

[Moon Knight]

The Scavengers are well... scavengers. That's what they do. She explained it to Rick haha. They just take. Rick is looking for numbers and surviving this long with such a well put together system they must be doing something right.

[AcesandEights]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/DougOBrien/own-meme_58ac933ca62e48774_zpsaarkuv5v.jpg

[MinionZombie]

:lol::lol::lol:

The first hipsters of the zombie apocalypse? :D They're certainly smug enough for it.

[Tricky]

I'm still watching the series but I'm not really liking all these weird new groups and characters that I don't really care about. I've not read the comics as far as the series is at so I don't know how it plays out in them, but I'm really not into "The Kingdom" or the scavengers, they're just too odd and don't really fit with the way other groups including our main group were in earlier seasons. I'll stick with it, but in all honesty I hope the series moves past these odd communities soon.

[Moon Knight]

I'm still watching the series but I'm not really liking all these weird new groups and characters that I don't really care about. I've not read the comics as far as the series is at so I don't know how it plays out in them, but I'm really not into "The Kingdom" or the scavengers, they're just too odd and don't really fit with the way other groups including our main group were in earlier seasons. I'll stick with it, but in all honesty I hope the series moves past these odd communities soon.

Don't worry. Honestly, this part of the comic was kind of a lull for me but it does get much better. If done RIGHT, things get pretty horrific.

[Neil]

Kind of feels like the wheels were spinning this week, and things felt a bit silly.

I agree... The new group just felt like writers got carried away, and not very realistic/believable etc...

Couple of other parts of the episode were interesting, but felt a bit like a fill in episode.

[shootemindehead]

Don't worry. Honestly, this part of the comic was kind of a lull for me but it does get much better. If done RIGHT, things get pretty horrific.

Yeh, this series is suffering from a bit of a "calm before the storm" syndrome. Series 8 will probably concentrate of the proverbial hitting the fan. That is if we assume it follows the logic of the comic.

In any case, this year is destined to go down as the worst series since the second one, I feel. It's still enjoyable, but I'm getting fed up making internal excuses for its shortcomings.

[Tricky]

I agree... The new group just felt like writers got carried away, and not very realistic/believable etc...

Couple of other parts of the episode were interesting, but felt a bit like a fill in episode.

They're really odd in a way crappy religious cults are always portrayed on TV, the way they all silently slope along behind the exceptionally weird leader and circled around Rick and co, then stood there not saying anything until they repeated what she said. The Walking Dead started as what I considered to be quite a realistic take on the zombie apocalypse theme in the way characters behaved and the overall bigger picture of how society has fallen apart and I loved it, but now I'm at a stage where I'm watching it half heartedly while hoping it goes back to how the first 5 seasons were. I don't want to give up on it but it's slipping down on my priorities of series to watch at the moment behind things like Black Sails, The Man in the High Castle, Game of Thrones etc

[Moon Knight]

Yeh, this series is suffering from a bit of a "calm before the storm" syndrome. Series 8 will probably concentrate of the proverbial hitting the fan. That is if we assume it follows the logic of the comic.

In any case, this year is destined to go down as the worst series since the second one, I feel. It's still enjoyable, but I'm getting fed up making internal excuses for its shortcomings.

I can agree with that.

There are plenty of things I hate about this season.

[MinionZombie]

Yeh, this series is suffering from a bit of a "calm before the storm" syndrome. Series 8 will probably concentrate of the proverbial hitting the fan. That is if we assume it follows the logic of the comic.

In any case, this year is destined to go down as the worst series since the second one, I feel. It's still enjoyable, but I'm getting fed up making internal excuses for its shortcomings.

I think Season 2 has been getting a better and better reception as time has gone on. Undoubtedly, week-to-week, 2A was slow as hell and suffered from a lot of padding (and the mess that was the whole situation surrounding the first episode - cobbled together from the original 2x01 and 2x02). Season 2B really kicked things into high gear, however, and watching Season 2 on your own schedule helps paper over the pacing troubles of 2A.

I think Season 7 - thus far - can be considered as uneven as Season 3. There's some awesome stuff in there, but there's also too much filler scattered around and certain elements that different people dislike for different reasons.

Oceanside and The Scavengers don't feature in the comics (unless one or both are shaping up to become other, future plot points in the comics). Tricky - I know what you mean - The Scavengers feel a bit cliche with their 'post apoc theatrics' ... their leader's general smugness irks me, I must say. These elements needed much more work, to be frank.

The Kingdom and The Hilltop are doing well, though (both featured in the comics).

I have a feeling Season 8 will be focused on the coming war ... but we'd better get at least a satisfying preamble and initial skirmish by the end of this season. I'd imagine another between-seasons cliffhanger is in the offing, which will likely piss some viewers off, but perhaps reward AMC with high figures for 8x01. Then 8A (perhaps even into 8B) could be dominated by the war, showing us a relatively condensed period of time somewhat akin to Season 6A.

In some ways it's difficult. Team Rick need to be under Negan's thumb for enough time so it's not a case of 'boo hoo, we are Negan' and then two minutes later they're all of a sudden back to Team Rick mode - that'd be silly - but the pacing of 7A was definitely troubled (7x06 has become the focus of my ire in that regard within the context of 7A). If they had ended Season 6 with the deaths of Abraham and Glenn, we could have perhaps had a time jump to find everyone a chunk of time into a Negan dictatorship and gotten back towards fighting fit shape quicker ... but that has problems, too. You'd miss the initial loss of leadership from Rick, you'd miss the breaking apart of the team, you'd miss the chance for the characters to grieve their losses, and you'd leap into action against The Saviours too quickly in terms of screen time and the impact of their arrival would be considerably weakened.

Basically, neither approach is without problems.

[facestabber]

Tad off topic but I loved season 2. And that is because it felt like the ZA. The group felt isolated as if the world had ended and the farm was their safe sanctuary. Admittedly season 2 had to have the ramped up second half for it to work. The Sophia reveal is still a punch in the gut to watch. 2 worked because I felt dread. Many episodes were with minimal walkers but you knew they were coming and the group feared them. Now the Walkers are more of a nuisance as bickering humans forgot how to be humane. In short, for me, the show is losing its magic. Still love the characters and will still watch.

[shootemindehead]

I think Season 2 has been getting a better and better reception as time has gone on.

Perhaps, but it's still generally considered the worst. But, hey, if that's the worst it gets, then I'm ok. It is littered with simne really stupid stuff though. That zombie in the well scene? WTF? Let's take that guy out of the water, sure it'll be grand then.


watching Season 2 on your own schedule helps paper over the pacing troubles of 2A.

We agree on this, that binging is the way to go. But still, binging doesn't eliminate the stupid.


I think Season 7 - thus far - can be considered as uneven as Season 3. There's some awesome stuff in there, but there's also too much filler scattered around and certain elements that different people dislike for different reasons.

This one started off with one of the best episodes of any TV show I've ever seen and I said it at the time, I feared that they'd shot their bolt. They kind of did. Now, they may up the game in the next 6 episodes, but who knows. As it stands, this whole season ( <- I'll never get used to that, I feel like I'm talking about the weather) is going down as one large filler at the moment.


In some ways it's difficult. Team Rick need to be under Negan's thumb for enough time so it's not a case of 'boo hoo, we are Negan' and then two minutes later they're all of a sudden back to Team Rick mode - that'd be silly - but the pacing of 7A was definitely troubled

Pacing is difficult and even when it's essential, it can still feel wrong. I'm blue in the face telling "kids" that 'Dawn of the Dead' is supposed to be "boring", cos the film has to show that the survivors have reached their end game. The need to understand that the mall is not their paradise, it's their prison. The long stretches of them becoming bored needs to be on screen.

"But...but...in the remake, they didn't get bored....."

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/20151210/5275500/mr-furious-o.gif

[Moon Knight]

I loved season 2 and it still has my all time favorite character and episode. I remember people complaining about being stuck on the farm and wanted new locations and now, well, lol. For real, though, Season 2 was fascinating to me.

My main issue with this season are the bottle episodes and now we are getting another this week. Joy.

[MinionZombie]

I'm blue in the face telling "kids" that 'Dawn of the Dead' is supposed to be "boring", cos the film has to show that the survivors have reached their end game. The need to understand that the mall is not their paradise, it's their prison. The long stretches of them becoming bored needs to be on screen.

"But...but...in the remake, they didn't get bored....."

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/20151210/5275500/mr-furious-o.gif

:lol::lol::lol:


Now the Walkers are more of a nuisance as bickering humans forgot how to be humane. In short, for me, the show is losing its magic. Still love the characters and will still watch.

They were a huge problem in 6A with the whole quarry full of walkers and the swarming of Alexandria. But you can't have an entire season, or every season, dominated by walker threats as it becomes stale, likewise it can't all be about human threats as it's a zombie show - so they have a pretty good mixture in there, I think.

Other humans would be a considerable threat - especially as they've made it this deep into the ZA.


My main issue with this season are the bottle episodes and now we are getting another this week. Joy.

Do you mean 7x11, or 7x10?

Next episode we'll be seeing what happens with Eugene at the Saviours' gaff, but hopefully we'll get some general propulsion forwards in the whole escalation to war. I do feel that some episodes are missing a step or two towards the whole drive to war, or the element they provide isn't meaty enough to satisfy or provide enough momentum (e.g. the Oceanside episode gave us one thing: they have a weapons store - and at the best part of 50 minutes of telly time, it didn't feel enough. I know we get introduced to a new community in that episode - but it was too many new faces/communities in too short a time (three within six episodes) - it's hard to explain ... the pacing and structure feels off and a bit frustrating).

Anyway...

[Moon Knight]

MZ- I'm talking about 7x11. Like, at least throw in the Hilltop, I really don't want to spend entire episode with the Saviors.

[MinionZombie]

MZ- I'm talking about 7x11. Like, at least throw in the Hilltop, I really don't want to spend entire episode with the Saviors.

I see what you mean, about not wanting to necessarily spend an entire episode in one of these relatively new locations - it's nice to mix things up and have 2 or 3 stories to follow throughout the episode. It's not always a good way to go as sometimes a singular story can work wonderfully (I know I've said it before, but 6x04 - the Morgan-centric episode - is great).

The key is having a compelling story to explore in that hour of drama.

[Moon Knight]

I see what you mean, about not wanting to necessarily spend an entire episode in one of these relatively new locations - it's nice to mix things up and have 2 or 3 stories to follow throughout the episode. It's not always a good way to go as sometimes a singular story can work wonderfully (I know I've said it before, but 6x04 - the Morgan-centric episode - is great).

The key is having a compelling story to explore in that hour of drama.

"Here's Not Here" and "The Grove" are two of my favorite episodes so I'm not totally against the format. This season just seems unnecessary to have so many with all the different characters and locations we have now. My main point is we shouldn't have to wait weeks to get back to certain characters and storylines. The Kingdom was introduced in 7x2 and we didn't go back until 7x8.

[facestabber]

:lol::lol::lol:



They were a huge problem in 6A with the whole quarry full of walkers and the swarming of Alexandria. But you can't have an entire season, or every season, dominated by walker threats as it becomes stale, likewise it can't all be about human threats as it's a zombie show - so they have a pretty good mixture in there, I think.

Other humans would be a considerable threat - especially as they've made it this deep into the ZA.



Do you mean 7x11, or 7x10?

Next episode we'll be seeing what happens with Eugene at the Saviours' gaff, but hopefully we'll get some general propulsion forwards in the whole escalation to war. I do feel that some episodes are missing a step or two towards the whole drive to war, or the element they provide isn't meaty enough to satisfy or provide enough momentum (e.g. the Oceanside episode gave us one thing: they have a weapons store - and at the best part of 50 minutes of telly time, it didn't feel enough. I know we get introduced to a new community in that episode - but it was too many new faces/communities in too short a time (three within six episodes) - it's hard to explain ... the pacing and structure feels off and a bit frustrating).

Anyway...

Minion as you said Walkers were featured heavy in 6a. But my point is that they aren't the threat they once were. We see the group herding, or in a sense playing with this gigantic force of Walkers. IMO they would have never considered that move in the first few seasons. Admittedly they have more experience and knowledge of Walker behavior but I do not experience the level of dread and fear for our survivors anymore regarding the living dead. I think they've lost that element.

[Moon Knight]

Minion as you said Walkers were featured heavy in 6a. But my point is that they aren't the threat they once were. We see the group herding, or in a sense playing with this gigantic force of Walkers. IMO they would have never considered that move in the first few seasons. Admittedly they have more experience and knowledge of Walker behavior but I do not experience the level of dread and fear for our survivors anymore regarding the living dead. I think they've lost that element.

Fair point but it was bound to happen.

I remember reading this arc in the book and thinking the same exact thing.

[MinionZombie]

"Here's Not Here" and "The Grove" are two of my favorite episodes so I'm not totally against the format. This season just seems unnecessary to have so many with all the different characters and locations we have now. My main point is we shouldn't have to wait weeks to get back to certain characters and storylines. The Kingdom was introduced in 7x2 and we didn't go back until 7x8.

Oh, "The Grove" ... yes, one of my all-time favourite episodes. There were many reasons why that worked so well - it tied up a season-long arc with Lizzie and Micah, and while Tyreese had only been around since the middle of Season 3, he was a commanding presence - and of course we had Carol as the lead in the episode, so you've got one of the strongest (and O.G.) characters leading the way. It also had a very well written and quite contained story with a devastating climax, a great use of music and scoring throughout. Plus, the ramifications of that episode reverberate still to this day through Carol.

I know what you mean, narratively we're getting stretched thin at the moment - your point about The Kingdom is spot on. Hopefully now we can start pulling these disparate threads together into a more cohesive whole and close some of the gaps.


Minion as you said Walkers were featured heavy in 6a. But my point is that they aren't the threat they once were. We see the group herding, or in a sense playing with this gigantic force of Walkers. IMO they would have never considered that move in the first few seasons. Admittedly they have more experience and knowledge of Walker behavior but I do not experience the level of dread and fear for our survivors anymore regarding the living dead. I think they've lost that element.

You've already answered yourself for me, hehe. In the first few seasons they were only a few weeks in to the ZA. Now they're two years deep.

I don't agree though, they still get into tricky situations - Glenn and Nicholas on the dumpster? Scary as shit. The swarming of Alexandria? Bloody nora!

There is an element of audience desensitisation involved, so they do have to work hard to up and ante and wring out the tension from the situation, but I feel they do a pretty good job of that most of the time. Not all the time, but most of the time.