TWD 7x11 "Hostiles and Calamities" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x11 "Hostiles and Calamities" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Kari Skogland
Written by: David Leslie Johnson

http://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/TWD-711-01.jpg

[Moon Knight]

I love Negan and all, but I really wanna see what Dwight is doing this episode.

[katholiday]

“Hostiles and Calamities” Episode: / *SPOILER WARNING!*

Airdate: 26 February 2017:

-Okay, here we go! Short and sweet, just like last week! First off, it was a bit of a “bottle” episode that concentrated on just a few characters, many people have a problem with these, but I think that they are necessary for character development.

Dwight realizes he’s lost Daryl, then he also loses his footing on Negan’s “Ladder Of Success”! -He even winds up in Daryl's old room for a little while! Eugene makes a required visit to the Saviors and Negan even gives him the “nice” guest room, complete with pickles & Spaghetti O’s! All that and a bag of chips! For awhile he starts to think that maybe he’s arrived at, “703 Easy Street”!

Meanwhile, Negan starts to gets suspicious of Cherry because she is missing too! But Dwight “confesses” to the dirty deed of letting Dirty Daryl escape. -So… Dwight heads out to scoop up whom he can from his old homestead. -But instead, he finds that nobody’s home! With recriminations in tow, he heads back to Negan with a lie in his head and and a lot of guilt in his eyes.

Finally, Negan tells Eugene what he wants from him and Eugene repeats the lie that he originally told Abraham. (...the lie that originally bound them, one to the other.) I guess, Negan’s just a sucker for a large vocabulary and he decides that he’s met his new “Wing-man!” (Get it… “Wing-man!” LOL! :))

-Eugene gets inspired when he actually gets to hang-out with some clean women! :) But… He is shocked when he discovers that these gal's may have a few issues of their own to sort out with Mr. Negan.

Later, Eugene wises up and discovers Negan’s true menace, when Negan gives him the 10 cent tour of the “Ironing-Room”! -Still... Negan’s gal’s just can’t seem to convince him to a get on, “The Warrior’s Path”!

So… Will Dwight ever find his true love? Will Cherry ever be found? -Will Lucille realize that Dwight is her true destiny… And, finally… Will Dr. Eugene actually get laid? -STAY TUNED!
But for now…

That’s all she wrote. :thumbsup:

[shootemindehead]

Wow. I completely forgot about mullet boy.

[MinionZombie]

I rather enjoyed this episode, Eugene really worked as the lead character here - we've got to know him gradually since Season 4, and he's certainly a stand out personality, so this one worked well in my opinion. It was also decidedly stronger over all that last week's.

He's getting crafty, too - notice how his face changes from whimpering small guy under Negan's thumb to the cockiness as he's lead away by the neck tattoo lady. Obviously he's still in deep shit and scared, but he's also calculating - he's engineered a 'worst case scenario' opt out for himself (the suicide pills), he's playing the 'I am Negan' game with convincing cowardice, and while he's helping The Saviours in some ways (the molten steel protected walkers on the fence - no headshots possible), I reckon he's also taking stock of the place quite carefully. Not only the layout, but the people as well - he'll be ideally placed to single out the ones who need to die and the ones who deserve to live (once they're freed from Negan's oppression).

It was quite funny at times with Eugene being Eugene, but there was some really good stuff with Dwight in there. Will Sherry turn up in Alexandria or one of the other communities somehow? Will one of Team Rick or their allies stumble across her and bring her into the fold (perfect insider knowledge under their protection)? Her letter to him, and his crumpled cigarette packet with her ciggy stub and their rings inside was a nice little touch. Much like Eugene, Dwight seems to be playing the long game - keeping his head down - but he also seems to be turning against Negan more and more in secret. He's entered the dark side and has realised quickly enough that there is hope for him, but he's got a lot of climbing to do to escape the hole he's dug for himself.

We also got a look inside the situation with Negan's wives - some have gone over (relatively) willingly, while others have been pushed into it by circumstance and are not dealing with their choice well.

...

TWD 7x11 Memes:


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9POhUCYvPkA/WLRY8yRnfJI/AAAAAAAAFJc/_n_hqebXddw3ymDo4Bv9QCU6DGlBsKODQCLcB/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Eugene_Negan_Bestes t_Friend_Posture_7x11_DeadShed.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JK4MhK2hlw8/WLRY8kNiPkI/AAAAAAAAFJY/4hBSK-JrgkonQLWMgPVbUYFOFDOcIjUhgCEw/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Eugene_Serious_Seps is_7x11_DeadShed.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Iz71_oFZFOc/WLRY6Yf9qEI/AAAAAAAAFJU/nJDKifVUM-07kr5_fGvQKai0mr5fMKmQwCEw/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Eugene_Dwight_Awkwa rd_Moment_Pickle_Bit_7x11_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[JDP]

Pretty funny episode. Not only do we witness the strange transformation of a self-admitted wimp/coward into a "badass" but we also learn that the Saviors have somehow managed to scavenge an Atari 2600 and at least one game for it. What did they do, raid a vintage video game convention? :)

Negan killing the doctor did not make much sense, though. As far as we know, he is the only doctor (of general medicine; Eugene did not claim to have experience in that field, important to keep that in mind) at the Savior's compound. People with medical knowledge and experience would be too valuable in such a world to get rid of them so casually. Deanna, for example, agreed to execute Alexandria's doctor only after he killed her husband, while she had conveniently overlooked all the other rotten things he had done before that and only gave him "slaps in the wrist" for them.

[Moon Knight]

Pretty funny episode. Not only do we witness the strange transformation of a self-admitted wimp/coward into a "badass" but we also learn that the Saviors have somehow managed to scavenge an Atari 2600 and at least one game for it. What did they do, raid a vintage video game convention? :)

Negan killing the doctor did not make much sense, though. As far as we know, he is the only doctor (of general medicine; Eugene did not claim to have experience in that field, important to keep that in mind) at the Savior's compound. People with medical knowledge and experience would be too valuable in such a world to get rid of them so casually. Deanna, for example, agreed to execute Alexandria's doctor only after he killed her husband, while she had conveniently overlooked all the other rotten things he had done before that and only gave him "slaps in the wrist" for them.

Negan already addressed this. "Good thing we have another Dr Carson."

Hilltop's Doc is the brother of the poor guy that Negan disposed of. I take it Negan will be paying the Hilltop a visit soon.

Anybody here had a copy of Yar's Revenge? Haha.

I really enjoyed this one.

[JDP]

Negan already addressed this. "Good thing we have another Dr Carson."

Hilltop's Doc is the brother of the poor guy that Negan disposed of. I take it Negan will be paying the Hilltop a visit soon.

OK, thanks for clarifying that. Was this specifically established in any episode of the show? I can't remember this detail of both doctors being related. I thought that Negan was referring to Eugene when he made the comment of having a "spare" doctor, since he was looking at him when he said that.

[Moon Knight]

OK, thanks for clarifying that. Was this specifically established in any episode of the show? I can't remember this detail of both doctors being related. I thought that Negan was referring to Eugene when he made the comment of having a "spare" doctor, since he was looking at him when he said that.

Yes, the show went out of their way to establish both doctors were named "Carson". Also, this isn't a comic storyline transitioned to screen, completely new. I'm just assuming it's a way to have Negan go to the Hilltop and confront Maggie again. Of course I could be wrong.

[shootemindehead]

Spending the apocalypse playing Yars Revenge. I'd join The Saviours for that.

[MinionZombie]

Moon - thanks for the clarification on the Dr Carson situation ... I was watching it and there was something buzzing about in the back of my mind about it.

Negan killed their Doctor - as well as his reaction over Lucille getting shot - shows a weakness in his control. I wonder if the underlings in Savioursville will get to grumbling about that? Allowing himself to lose control like that won't win him any fans and will erode the fear and respect he has gained from his loyal subjects.

When Eugene pledged his allegience to Negan in the penultimate scene it sounded so much like a romantic comedy when the two unrequited lovers finally admit their feelings for one another. :lol: Eugene's totally lying, of course, Dr Smarty Pants is playing the game and putting his RPG skills to use. Notice how he re-employed his 'Human Genome Project' spiel that he'd originally used on Abraham when they first met way back when. :sneaky:

[Moon Knight]

Spending the apocalypse playing Yars Revenge. I'd join The Saviours for that.

They really got it good, huh? Eugene is back home it seems.

You're welcome, MZ. Now we gotta see if Negan himself goes to the Hilltop or if he sends Simon.

[MinionZombie]

They really got it good, huh?

If you're on the inside of Negan's crew then yeah - you live pretty good and you can lord it over other people - so the mentality of (most) of those loyal to Negan will be similar and susceptible to enjoying that aspect of life under Negan's rule. Meanwhile the ones scruffing about are probably quite weak and have been there since the early days - if they'd been out on their own most would have probably perished by now - so they're too weak and cowed to do anything but endure the downsides.

Meanwhile the likes of neck tattoo lady (Laura?) and Simon have it pretty sweet. Seeing how Eugene reacted to his time at The Sanctuary perfectly illustrates how and why certain people would flourish under Negan's rule and be loyal to him (even if they have problems with him deep down). Although, I don't see Eugene becoming loyal to Negan's crew - he's just playing along to survive and is on the lookout for opportunities to help Team Rick.

[Moon Knight]

Eugene really has it good haha. Video games, books, good food, lady friends, etc. I can see him and Laura getting close. This episode really got me thinking, how come Rick doesn't have Eugene secure the walls like Negan quickly did. Negan even mentioned it. Eugene is quite useful! What the heck does he do in Alexandria all day? Haha.

[MinionZombie]

Eugene really has it good haha. Video games, books, good food, lady friends, etc. I can see him and Laura getting close. This episode really got me thinking, how come Rick doesn't have Eugene secure the walls like Negan quickly did. Negan even mentioned it. Eugene is quite useful! What the heck does he do in Alexandria all day? Haha.

Perhaps Eugene's skills haven't been used so much, or he's only just beginning to fully realise his potential.

Negan's far more twisted than Rick would ever be - so having a wall of tied up walkers wouldn't phase Negan, and Rick would never think of such a thing. Team Rick more think of defending themselves against the walkers (hence the cars with those traps that Morgan had set up in Season 3), whereas Negan is seeking to weaponise the walkers in one way or another.

[JDP]

Eugene really has it good haha. Video games, books, good food, lady friends, etc. I can see him and Laura getting close. This episode really got me thinking, how come Rick doesn't have Eugene secure the walls like Negan quickly did. Negan even mentioned it. Eugene is quite useful! What the heck does he do in Alexandria all day? Haha.

Alexandria's walls already look pretty secure, more than the ones at the Savior compound.

We have seen Eugene repairing/installing things around Alexandria and also for the Savior "tributes" before, so Rick has been employing him as a technician/handyman as well. He is like a nerd version of MacGyver (he even has the mullet :lol:) It's what Eugene is good at, and the reason why he has been able to survive so far into this messed up world.

- - - Updated - - -


...we also learn that the Saviors have somehow managed to scavenge an Atari 2600 and at least one game for it.

Just re-watched the episode and from what Eugene says it seems that they at least found two games for it. The other game he mentions they can play is Warlords:

http://www.atarimania.com/2600/boxes/hi_res/warlords_color_pal_cart_2.jpg

Which also means that the Saviors must also have found the paddle controllers to play it.

[Neil]

Question. When Eugene said he was Negan's head science type department dude... Was he telling the truth, or bluffing?

My understanding is that he is "Negan" and can take what ever he wants to, but I don't recall him being declared having a role?

He clearly does like the way these other people were being treated, so didn't want to "stomp" on them, but changed his colours and did!?

[MinionZombie]

Question. When Eugene said he was Negan's head science type department dude... Was he telling the truth, or bluffing?

He clearly does like the way these other people were being treated, so didn't want to "stomp" on them, but changed his colours and did!?

While we didn't seem him necessarily given that sort of title officially, that's exactly what he's there to do for them - all the nerdy stuff they'd never think of etc.

I'd imagine Eugene was the sort of person who grew up getting bullied throughout high school, and now he's in a position of power over other people and he doesn't quite know how to handle it or exercise it ... plus the whirlwind of emotions he'd be having as a result of being kidnapped in the wake of all the shit that went down in 7x08.

[Neil]

While we didn't seem him necessarily given that sort of title officially, that's exactly what he's there to do for them - all the nerdy stuff they'd never think of etc.

I'd imagine Eugene was the sort of person who grew up getting bullied throughout high school, and now he's in a position of power over other people and he doesn't quite know how to handle it or exercise it ... plus the whirlwind of emotions he'd be having as a result of being kidnapped in the wake of all the shit that went down in 7x08.

Going to be interesting to see if Eugene gets more and more into the power Negan gives him!

[Moon Knight]

The way that Negan questioned Eugene about Rick not utilizing him the way Negan just did followed by the way Eugene looked at him made me think Dr Porter kinda felt underutilized and appreciated. lol I think Negan treated him better than Rosita.

It's an interesting setup for Eugene. His story can go either way. If he follows the rules he'll be pretty safe and c'mon, let's be real- video games and popcorn. Haha. I like it.

Also, he was totally fluffing his credentials to Negan, just like he did Abraham.

[Neil]

Also, he was totally fluffing his credentials to Negan, just like he did Abraham.He can make bullets... Nuff said :)

[facestabber]

I don't have much to add this week. Simply, I like Eugene. Not sure why so much focus on Sanctuarys Atari 2600. The 5200 was much better. And secondly, our first day in Alexandria Coral is introduced to video games at porch dicks house.

[JDP]

I don't have much to add this week. Simply, I like Eugene. Not sure why so much focus on Sanctuarys Atari 2600. The 5200 was much better. And secondly, our first day in Alexandria Coral is introduced to video games at porch dicks house.

Not this vintage, though. It's just too funny that the Saviors have scavenged an Atari 2600. Did they raid a video game collector's pad? :lol:

Incidentally, it is very difficult to believe that no one in TWD knows the word "zombie" when in fact one of the very first ZOMBIE themed video games was for the Atari 2600:

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=23579

- - - Updated - - -


The way that Negan questioned Eugene about Rick not utilizing him the way Negan just did followed by the way Eugene looked at him made me think Dr Porter kinda felt underutilized and appreciated. lol I think Negan treated him better than Rosita.

It's an interesting setup for Eugene. His story can go either way. If he follows the rules he'll be pretty safe and c'mon, let's be real- video games and popcorn. Haha. I like it.

Also, he was totally fluffing his credentials to Negan, just like he did Abraham.

Negan is giving Eugene the "royal treatment", actually. Most of the Saviors themselves do not have it as good as he does. Let's hope it doesn't end up back-firing on him eventually, as it happened with Abraham, who punched him silly when his farce was uncovered. Negan is not going to be as "nice" as Abraham.

[MinionZombie]

Not this vintage, though. It's just too funny that the Saviors have scavenged an Atari 2600. Did they raid a video game collector's pad? :lol:

Incidentally, it is very difficult to believe that no one in TWD knows the word "zombie" when in fact one of the very first ZOMBIE themed video games was for the Atari 2600:

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=23579

In the TWD universe the word "zombie" doesn't exist, nor any zombie lore, so none of the characters have ever heard of the term let alone the concept of a zombie.

As for the creature comforts, it'll all be a part of the incentives for more loyal and motivated Saviours - to get their own room (as opposed to the camp beds in a big, open hall that the plebs of the Sanctuary get) with some snazzy things to occupy your downtime (Dwight is fond of sitcoms and has a TV/VCR set up, as we saw in an earlier episode). I'd imagine that once you've got your own room you're then permitted to scavenge things for yourself - videogames consoles etc would just be hanging out in any number of homes and left untouched - so they'd just pinch them for their own amusement. When you've got downtime, the zombie apocalypse must be ruddy boring without hobbies! :D

[shootemindehead]

In the TWD universe the word "zombie" doesn't exist

FqNQbdD3kLw

[JDP]

In the TWD universe the word "zombie" doesn't exist, nor any zombie lore, so none of the characters have ever heard of the term let alone the concept of a zombie.

But it seems like they should. For example, they have the same video game consoles, sitcoms and rock bands (ex: Merle listens to Motörhead; one of their songs mentions "the scratching zombie claw") we do. Too much "coincidence" to think that this is some "other universe". Their "universe" is just ours, except that the "zombies" have become a reality. The word should not be unknown to them.

This effort to avoid this word sounds much like how Romero tried to avoid it in his movies, except in Dawn, where the word did in fact somehow creep in into the dialogue and ruined the whole strange attempt to avoid it. So the people in Romero's "universe" do know the word after all, as it should be expected, since their "universe" is really just ours but with zombies having become a reality. Apparently most people just choose not to use the term.

[Moon Knight]

But it seems like they should. For example, they have the same video game consoles, sitcoms and rock bands (ex: Merle listens to Motörhead; one of their songs mentions "the scratching zombie claw") we do. Too much "coincidence" to think that this is some "other universe". Their "universe" is just ours, except that the "zombies" have become a reality. The word should not be unknown to them.

This effort to avoid this word sounds much like how Romero tried to avoid it in his movies, except in Dawn, where the word did in fact somehow creep in into the dialogue and ruined the whole strange attempt to avoid it. So the people in Romero's "universe" do know the word after all, as it should be expected, since their "universe" is really just ours but with zombies having become a reality. Apparently most people just choose not to use the term.

The word "Zombie" existed even before zombies were a thing in movies. "Jacob's Ladder" for example, was based off of real practices, drugged people to the point where they were on the brink of death but still technically alive; they were called zombies. The word predates NotLD and it goes perfectly with Peter's story about his ancestors which makes sense why he would use that Z word.

Me personally? Keep the word away if it ain't gonna be used right.

[UndeadHippo]

Perhaps people use the words "walker" "roamer" "biter" etc, in the same way we nowadays use the words Dyson or Hoover, we all know that they're basically vacuum cleaners, but no one ever refers to them as that :D

Nice bit of contrast at the end there after Eugene declares for Negan, having him and Dwight side by side. each in a position of changing loyalties, also the visual shorthand of Eugene being all in a long black coat at the end directing the saviours. Definitely his "vader suit" moment.

Easy Street makes it's (un)welcome return too, but this time Eugene really IS on easy street compared to Alexandria. Video games, popcorn, all the books he can read and attractive women to show off his science skills to.

All things considered, i'm not sure this is a long game plan at all, Eugene is a coward, but he's also a survivor, and part of that is being able to take advantage of a situation. I think he will probably be Negan's loyal man until such a time as it becomes obvious that it's no longer a winning strategy. I really like Eugene. I hope this doesn't backfire and get his sorry ass killed.

[MinionZombie]

Moon - IIRC the word goes back to the 19th Century with books written by explorers who visited Haiti and spoke of the voodoo ceremonies and stories. The flesh eating ghoul incarnation hits in the 1960s with Night of the Living Dead, but the common thread is the belief (or actuality) of someone having died and risen to walk the earth once again.


Their "universe" is just ours, except that the "zombies" have become a reality.

If you can accept that it's like our universe except for the fact that the living dead are real, then you can accept that it can also be different bar one other little difference - that they have no concept for the living dead as a cultural phenomenon.


FqNQbdD3kLw

:lol::lol::lol:

God damn I love that movie. I've seen it so many times, so I've been abstaining from watching it for a few years now to freshen it up again for myself. I might have to give it another spin some time soon.


Nice bit of contrast at the end there after Eugene declares for Negan, having him and Dwight side by side. each in a position of changing loyalties, also the visual shorthand of Eugene being all in a long black coat at the end directing the saviours. Definitely his "vader suit" moment.

I chuckled at the fact that Eugene is crunching on a pickle and then Dwight shuffles out and they have that awkward conversation about Eugene biting his todger. :lol:

[Moon Knight]

MZ- you are absolutely correct. The Z word goes way back. Haiti is most def the origin.

[shootemindehead]

God damn I love that movie. I've seen it so many times, so I've been abstaining from watching it for a few years now to freshen it up again for myself. I might have to give it another spin some time soon.

Do it.

It just doesn't get old. Best thing they ever did.

[Philly_SWAT]

Anybody here had a copy of Yar's Revenge? Haha.
I do. For sure it was one of the most fun and challenging games for the 2600.