TWD 7x15 "Something They Need" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x15 "Something They Need" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Michael Slovis
Written by: Corey Reed

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TWD-715-01.jpg

[Moon Knight]

Not expecting anything major. You just know they are gonna save the juicy material for the finale.

[facestabber]

Rick toting a Galil!!!! Nice to see Eric out on a mission but I can only guess it won't end well for him lol. Opposite of Eric I met Ross Marquardt yesterday and I must say he is one heck of a good guy. Very humble and very intelligent guy.

Well the stage is set. Sad to see season about to end.

[zomtom]

Overall it was a decent episode. They most certainly are gearing up for the finale next weekend. Still, I feel a little cheated. I would have liked to have seen Tara tell Rick about the weapons at Oceanside and what led up to it. I feel as though the earlier portion of this episode was rushed. I don't need the writers to walk me through the whole hour but they did make an issue of Tara not telling Rick in earlier episodes. I just would have liked to have seen that scene. Should be exciting next week though I don't know what I'll watch after the finale. Won't have Game of Thrones to jump right in to.

[JDP]

Overall it was a decent episode. They most certainly are gearing up for the finale next weekend. Still, I feel a little cheated. I would have liked to have seen Tara tell Rick about the weapons at Oceanside and what led up to it. I feel as though the earlier portion of this episode was rushed. I don't need the writers to walk me through the whole hour but they did make an issue of Tara not telling Rick in earlier episodes. I just would have liked to have seen that scene. Should be exciting next week though I don't know what I'll watch after the finale. Won't have Game of Thrones to jump right in to.

Or how about: how come Rosita did not kill Dwight on the spot and instead "captured" him? Rosita hates that dude and my impression is that her immediate reaction after spotting him would be to quickly draw, aim & fire and ask questions later. Or: how come Sasha allowed herself to be captured alive? This was supposed to be a suicide mission. She was ready to die in the attempt to kill Negan, so her capture came up as a surprise. Hopefully we will eventually get answers to these questions.

[facestabber]

Or how about: how come Rosita did not kill Dwight on the spot and instead "captured" him? Rosita hates that dude and my impression is that her immediate reaction after spotting him would be to quickly draw, aim & fire and ask questions later. Or: how come Sasha allowed herself to be captured alive? This was supposed to be a suicide mission. She was ready to die in the attempt to kill Negan, so her capture came up as a surprise. Hopefully we will eventually get answers to these questions.

Rosita witnessed the arrow through the eye incident. I too struggle as to how Dwight had anything more than a split second to breath before Rosita would shoot him. Rosita was on a suicide mission a few seconds earlier so why not kill the turd who murdered Denise? I did love Daryl's reaction. If Rick Grimes wasn't between them I have no doubt Daryl would have killed him. But yea either Rosita is a reckless assasin or she is a calculated and team player assasin. Seconds apart between those two ideals seems forced.

[MinionZombie]

Not getting to see Sasha's attack on the Sanctuary was more of a bummer for me. Seeing a scene of Tara telling Rick about Oceanside would have been filler. We know why she didn't, we know why she now is, we know Rick would be a smidge peeved but happy in the end. :p

I agree on the Rosita/Dwight thing - I'd like to know the mechanics of that exchange. I understand it wasn't shown to allow for the reveal of the final scene, although we'd all guessed it was Dwight in the shadows (especially as Daryl was with Rick & Co on the Oceanside mission) ... so it's a weird sort of thing to try and 'hide' from the audience. Doesn't feel very well conceived and positioned. There's been a few such moments like that throughout this season where it feels like the writers' mojo is off - as if they're not quite working together as well as before, so scenes from one episode clash with another, or certain events don't make a whole heck of a lot of sense.

I like the Daryl/Dwight set up, though. It's a nice addition to the existing Dwight material from the comics.

Anyway - Oceanside was better in this episode because we had a whole bunch of our familiar chums in the lead. It was good to see the schism between their leader and Rick, and how the people of Oceanside were pretty keen to fight back. They obviously owe a lot to their leader, but that yearning for action, to exact vengeance on the Saviours, was palpable. The barnacle walkers were cool.

Good scenes with Sasha/Negan - especially to begin with. It was interesting to see something we rarely see on this show - the threat of rape. If the zombie apocalypse really did come there'd be so much lawlessness in its wake that such a hideous act would be common. Naturally, TWD can't really stray into that territory - we've had suggestions and threats of it in the past (e.g. the Claimers, The Governor vs Maggie). This was an interesting episode for the culture of The Saviours - that they have rules to abide by, but that they have attracted some of the worst and weakest people to their cause. Moral fibre is in short supply in the Sanctuary, it seems.

Perhaps Eugene doesn't have much of a plan in the works, after all - maybe he has been cowed by fear once again. It was just that assured look he gave after walking away from Negan in his episode when he first arrived at The Sanctuary.

One thing I particularly liked - Jesus saying that he should have fought harder to convince Sasha and Rosita to not run off. Damn straight! :lol:

...

TWD 7x15 Meme:

http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/lady-nuts-edition-walking-dead-7x15.html

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H6fXunZgTuE/WNk5fFa7yFI/AAAAAAAAFNM/HzoD5za76jYCb6Jj9tNducROOiEB6RiKACLcB/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Season_7_Meme_Negan_Beach_Ball_Si zed_Lady_Nuts_7x15_DeadShed.jpg



:)

[Moon Knight]

Rosita didn't shoot because Dwight was in the dark. Honestly, from the silhouette I thought it was Daryl on first sight. It was clearly meant to look like that. Just look at her expression at the end. She was confused and unsure. Dwight didn't even have a weapon pulled out on her. It's not perfect and might be stretching it a little bit it makes sense. Now, you can say "Well why didn't she shoot him after?" I would like to know too. Maybe we'll get some answers but in the comic Dwight kinda appears out of nowhere too so I can live with it.

I agree thought about not showing Sasha getting captured. I would have loved to see her killing Saviors before being taken down. She wanted to go down fighting, not suicide. She failed on all accounts and now she's left with the worst choice.

Didn't need a long explanation from Tara. I loved how they didn't waste too much time in Oceanside. They would usually spend and entire episode on something like that. I'm happy.

Everything involving Negan/Sasha/Eugene was great. Awesome comic moment come to life.

Gregory was fantastic yet again. How perfect was that casting?

[facestabber]

Rosita didn't shoot because Dwight was in the dark. Honestly, from the silhouette I thought it was Daryl on first sight. It was clearly meant to look like that. Just look at her expression at the end. She was confused and unsure. Dwight didn't even have a weapon pulled out on her. It's not perfect and might be stretching it a little bit it makes sense. Now, you can say "Well why didn't she shoot him after?" I would like to know too. Maybe we'll get some answers but in the comic Dwight kinda appears out of nowhere too so I can live with it.

I agree thought about not showing Sasha getting captured. I would have loved to see her killing Saviors before being taken down. She wanted to go down fighting, not suicide. She failed on all accounts and now she's left with the worst choice.

Didn't need a long explanation from Tara. I loved how they didn't waste too much time in Oceanside. They would usually spend and entire episode on something like that. I'm happy.

Everything involving Negan/Sasha/Eugene was great. Awesome comic moment come to life.

Gregory was fantastic yet again. How perfect was that casting?

I certainly wouldn't expect Rosita to shoot at a target she didn't identify. Lol. I just meant as soon as she ID'd Dwight he was a dead man. That Denise murder still bothers me. Has to bother Rosita Daryl and Eugene too. Trust me I'd rather see the rational Rosita instead of the reckless one. But talk about inconsistent.

I'm gonna be a little mean here. I never expressed love for Tara. She has had a few memorable moments for sure but I just don't care for her acting. Swap her for Sasha right now. There are some damn talented actors on this show and she isn't one of them. As rude as this may be she is the only actor to get fat during the ZA. The show tries to hide it with her clothes but it's too much.

[Moon Knight]

Sasha told Rosita the group needed her sacrificing herself in the process. I'm sure Rosita was thinking with her head here instead of her anger. I'm assuming Dwight put down his weapons and said he has a plan that could help.

I would trade Tara for Sasha too. If Rosita dies before Tara I'm gonna drown myself in a bottle of tequila.

[facestabber]

Sasha told Rosita the group needed her sacrificing herself in the process. I'm sure Rosita was thinking with her head here instead of her anger. I'm assuming Dwight put down his weapons and said he has a plan that could help.

I would trade Tara for Sasha too. If Rosita dies before Tara I'm gonna drown myself in a bottle of tequila.

Speaking of Tequila Steven Ogg told me he can't stand it or whiskey. He is a beer man. My daughters were intimidated prior to meeting him. Then he shook their hands and joked around with him. Nice guy. He gave off an impression that he isn't too thrilled about his lack of screen time. Granted that's how I read his comments.

[Moon Knight]

Speaking of Tequila Steven Ogg told me he can't stand it or whiskey. He is a beer man. My daughters were intimidated prior to meeting him. Then he shook their hands and joked around with him. Nice guy. He gave off an impression that he isn't too thrilled about his lack of screen time. Granted that's how I read his comments.

Where did you meet him?

[MinionZombie]

As rude as this may be she is the only actor to get fat during the ZA. The show tries to hide it with her clothes but it's too much.

Or, rather, Alanna Masterson got pregnant. :rockbrow: Same thing with Sonequa Martin-Green (the black t-shirt, Bob's large military shirt). It was harder to hide in Tara's case, but life goes on outside of these shows, and not everyone can drop the extra weight in an instant.

[shootemindehead]

I'm in the opposite camp. I'd off Rosita and keep Tara. I like her quirkiness and I think the actress is doing a good job myself. Rosita is a bit of a cliche and Sasha has always been a bit meh for me too, to be honest.

Plus, fat?

No. Up the duff.

[facestabber]

Where did you meet him?

Chicago Walker stalker

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Or, rather, Alanna Masterson got pregnant. :rockbrow: Same thing with Sonequa Martin-Green (the black t-shirt, Bob's large military shirt). It was harder to hide in Tara's case, but life goes on outside of these shows, and not everyone can drop the extra weight in an instant.

Ofcourse I am aware she had a kid....in November of 2015. I don't expect an instant and I don't expect skin and bones healthy for any actors but I expect serious would put more effort in their roles. I don't hate her for it what so ever. Ah damnit yea I had no business picking on her. I'm done.

[Moon Knight]

I'm in the opposite camp. I'd off Rosita and keep Tara. I like her quirkiness and I think the actress is doing a good job myself. Rosita is a bit of a cliche and Sasha has always been a bit meh for me too, to be honest.

Plus, fat?

No. Up the duff.

She's a fun character but to me she peaked back in season 4.

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Chicago Walker stalker

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Ofcourse I am aware she had a kid....in November of 2015. I don't expect an instant and I don't expect skin and bones healthy for any actors but I expect serious would put more effort in their roles. I don't hate her for it what so ever. Ah damnit yea I had no business picking on her. I'm done.

Nice. I'm going in Dec, can't wait.

The actress playing Tara is looking quite good these days. Looks like she's working on it.

[MinionZombie]

I'm a fan of Tara - she brings some levity and wit to proceedings, a bit of a sly observation or two to throw into the mix. It helps ground the show a bit more to balance out the likes of Rick, Michonne, and Daryl. Folks like Tara and Eugene are more 'normal', if that makes sense? They're not superheroes and they have a different voice which keeps things interesting when going up against the big guns.

My main issue with Sasha and Rosita this season is their sheer lack of self-awareness. Sure, they've got beef and grief by the bucket load, but so does everyone else - hell, Maggie lost her husband and father of her unborn child, and yet she's got her head screwed on and biding her time. Jesus needed to fight harder to knock some sense into Sasha, and Gabriel for Rosita - but some people are willfully blind and become hellbent on revenge at any cost. I think their arc could have been worked in a bit better throughout this season as sometimes they do things that, to me at least, they're too smart to be doing.

[Moon Knight]

I'm a fan of Tara - she brings some levity and wit to proceedings, a bit of a sly observation or two to throw into the mix. It helps ground the show a bit more to balance out the likes of Rick, Michonne, and Daryl. Folks like Tara and Eugene are more 'normal', if that makes sense? They're not superheroes and they have a different voice which keeps things interesting when going up against the big guns.

My main issue with Sasha and Rosita this season is their sheer lack of self-awareness. Sure, they've got beef and grief by the bucket load, but so does everyone else - hell, Maggie lost her husband and father of her unborn child, and yet she's got her head screwed on and biding her time. Jesus needed to fight harder to knock some sense into Sasha, and Gabriel for Rosita - but some people are willfully blind and become hellbent on revenge at any cost. I think their arc could have been worked in a bit better throughout this season as sometimes they do things that, to me at least, they're too smart to be doing.

I gotta agree. I'm happy Rosita actually got a storyline but it's a really frustrating one that made everyone hate the character. Sasha definitely has history with selfishness and suicidal behavior so it's within character.

[facestabber]

She's a fun character but to me she peaked back in season 4.

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Nice. I'm going in Dec, can't wait.

The actress playing Tara is looking quite good these days. Looks like she's working on it.

It really is a great time. I love it more than my kids too. The pinnacle this year was finally meeting Lauren Cohan and Scott Wilson. Lauren is drop dead gorgeous and sweet. Scott was a genuine and humble guy. I will try and post pics later.

On topic the season has been up and down but I still love the show and hate waiting till October.

[Moon Knight]

It really is a great time. I love it more than my kids too. The pinnacle this year was finally meeting Lauren Cohan and Scott Wilson. Lauren is drop dead gorgeous and sweet. Scott was a genuine and humble guy. I will try and post pics later.

On topic the season has been up and down but I still love the show and hate waiting till October.

Yeah, this will be my third time. It's great fun; especially walking around double fisting coronas because the beer line is horrendously long haha.

This back half has been much better than the first half for me. I hate the structure this season and some of the character portrayals but I always enjoy it in the long run.

[JDP]

I gotta agree. I'm happy Rosita actually got a storyline but it's a really frustrating one that made everyone hate the character.

I don't know why. She has every reason to be frustrated and pissed off. Besides all the other mess that's going on in the world she lives in, she got majorly dumped in her personal life. Abraham was a valuable asset to the group and all, but in the end he treated her like crap by dumping her "cold turkey", no logical explanations for his action, no serious attempt at communication, nothing. Not cool, dude.

[Moon Knight]

I don't know why. She has every reason to be frustrated and pissed off. Besides all the other mess that's going on in the world she lives in, she got majorly dumped in her personal life. Abraham was a valuable asset to the group and all, but in the end he treated her like crap by dumping her "cold turkey", no logical explanations for his action, no serious attempt at communication, nothing. Not cool, dude.

Ive said this before while defending Rosita. I just believe they kinda forced it a bit much. I think Christian did an excellent job with it but casual fans don't like to see the greater picture. They just see her as annoying. Just my observation. Doesn't matter to me in the end, I get it. I wanted Sasha to slap her bad and that was the writers intent. My biggest gripe on it is that they should have toned it down a tad. She's still my favorite Latina although her Spanish is pretty terrible haha.

[Harleydude666]

I have no problem with Sasha or the Sonequa who plays her. But her story of vengeance is just downright retarded and laughable. They showed no storyline of her and Abe's romance over a period of time, it was like I like you and you like me and now he's dead and I just lost the love of my life of 10 years. Gimme a break. I get Rosita's hurt

[Moon Knight]

I have no problem with Sasha or the Sonequa who plays her. But her story of vengeance is just downright retarded and laughable. They showed no storyline of her and Abe's romance over a period of time, it was like I like you and you like me and now he's dead and I just lost the love of my life of 10 years. Gimme a break. I get Rosita's hurt

Spot on.

[Craig]

I've really enjoyed this seasons so far, not so much because it's been especially strong itself but for me it's gotten to the point where I'm willing to forgive most things, y'know? I mean especially with the introduction of the various and unusual survivor groups it really is more like a cartoon or a comic and I'm less worried about things like realism and believe-ability now as I once might have been.

A big part of the fun now is getting together with my sister and her fiance to watch it. Each week without fail my sister will sing-along and mime conducting the theme tune when it kicks in and each episode offers new opportunities to make jokes at the expense of the characters and ad-lib our own dialogue or plot twists. I'm looking forward to some shit going down in the finale.

[facestabber]

I have no problem with Sasha or the Sonequa who plays her. But her story of vengeance is just downright retarded and laughable. They showed no storyline of her and Abe's romance over a period of time, it was like I like you and you like me and now he's dead and I just lost the love of my life of 10 years. Gimme a break. I get Rosita's hurt

This is truth. Well said. Sonequa is one of the better actors on the show. But the Abe/Sasha love story was in its infancy. It was never translated well to the audience. Everyone in that lineup would understandably have emotional fallout and even a lifetime of trauma. But Abe/Sasha ended up being one of the writers way of telling us "thats the way it is" without showing us. To avoid spoilers or speculation I will refrain from diving too far into this topic. But my brain has an idea that may explain the driving force behind this issue. Check back in Sunday night and I will know if my gut is correct.

[Harleydude666]

This is truth. Well said. Sonequa is one of the better actors on the show. But the Abe/Sasha love story was in its infancy. It was never translated well to the audience. Everyone in that lineup would understandably have emotional fallout and even a lifetime of trauma. But Abe/Sasha ended up being one of the writers way of telling us "thats the way it is" without showing us. To avoid spoilers or speculation I will refrain from diving too far into this topic. But my brain has an idea that may explain the driving force behind this issue. Check back in Sunday night and I will know if my gut is correct.

You gonna tell us Sasha is pregnant???

[JDP]

You gonna tell us Sasha is pregnant???

Yes, and it is Shane's!!! :p

[Moon Knight]

This is truth. Well said. Sonequa is one of the better actors on the show. But the Abe/Sasha love story was in its infancy. It was never translated well to the audience. Everyone in that lineup would understandably have emotional fallout and even a lifetime of trauma. But Abe/Sasha ended up being one of the writers way of telling us "thats the way it is" without showing us. To avoid spoilers or speculation I will refrain from diving too far into this topic. But my brain has an idea that may explain the driving force behind this issue. Check back in Sunday night and I will know if my gut is correct.

For Sasha, she finally found someone that grounded her and was willing to say f*ck it and start a family during all this madness. Someone she could settle down with and leave the walker world behind with. They had Alexandria and they had walls. Also, if Maggie and Glenn could do it so could her and Abe. Negan took that away from her. At least that's how I justify it. I do agree it's kinda thrown together quickly but one could also argue the seeds were placed back in season 5.

Without spoilers, the character Sasha took over from the comics knew Abraham for a lot less of the time that Sasha did. In the end, I'm ok with it.

[shootemindehead]

/\

To me, this is the problem with writing this type of "soap opera" storyline. The writers wanted some "ooooohhh" in their plot having Abe do an about face and ditch Rositia for Sasha, something that really came out of nowhere and I'll be honest, that never sat right with me for a second - rather like Rick's hookup with Michone (that's just bullshit) - and it just makes Abe look like a dick. My wife got really pissed off with him :lol: . Now, we have a pretty unrealistic reaction to Abe's murder, from Sasha, who's going on like (as said earlier) she just lost the love of her life.

None of it rings true and it feels completely hollow.

Far too often, writers stick in a love story, because they've either run out of road with a character or they just don't have enough story to fill the running time (a lot of war movies suffer from this issue). Problem is, you need to build a love story gradually so it means something, or have it already established when you introduce your character, otherwise it doesn't feel organic.

[MinionZombie]

/\

To me, this is the problem with writing this type of "soap opera" storyline. The writers wanted some "ooooohhh" in their plot having Abe do an about face and ditch Rositia for Sasha, something that really came out of nowhere and I'll be honest, that never sat right with me for a second - rather like Rick's hookup with Michone (that's just bullshit) - and it just makes Abe look like a dick. My wife got really pissed off with him :lol: . Now, we have a pretty unrealistic reaction to Abe's murder, from Sasha, who's going on like (as said earlier) she just lost the love of her life.

None of it rings true and it feels completely hollow.

Far too often, writers stick in a love story, because they've either run out of road with a character or they just don't have enough story to fill the running time (a lot of war movies suffer from this issue). Problem is, you need to build a love story gradually so it means something, or have it already established when you introduce your character, otherwise it doesn't feel organic.

I reject this "soap opera" criticism that gets slammed on TWD from time to time. Not once have I seen someone's evil twin half-sibling that they never knew about come back from the dead via a brain transplant ... or an alcoholic gold digger with fading beauty marry a dying oil barron to screw said barron's kids out of their vast inheritence so she can pay off her massive debts to her loan shark/former husband/current bit on the side. :sneaky: That sort of shit is "soap opera" storytelling.

Stories are stories. Love and relationships are a huge part of the human experience (if they weren't, our population would have dwindled long ago). "Richonne" makes sense - they hooked up in Season 6 having known each other since Season 3, going from quite suspect - even antagonistic towards each other - to friends, and then to room-mates, and then to lovers. It was a gradual thing and it worked beautifully, I feel. They know what each other is about, they understand each other, and they had an inherent comfort with each other. Likewise, Michonne had a long-established good relationship and mutual respect with Carl (again, dating back to it's origins in Season 3 - 3x12 "Clear" in particular), and she was able to process the loss of her own child and accept Judith into her life (IIRC we saw this unfold in late Season 3/early Season 4). So "Richonne" makes total sense - two warriors who deeply understand each other - just like in the comics (although there was no such thing as "Richonne" in the comics, because Rick got together with someone else in the comics).

I do agree, though, that we got nowhere near enough Abraham/Sasha storyline to make her loss resonate enough. We needed to see them in a more intimate context - I don't necessarily mean bunking up, but a more domestic "we could have a normal life together" context. We clearly got the reason for Abraham breaking up with Rosita. He didn't handle it particularly well, but we did get his reasoning laid out quite clearly, and obviously Rosita thought they had something different. Perhaps some flashbacks for Sasha and Abraham in Season 7A - to show their blooming relationship - would have helped? Or, better yet, deeper exploration of their burgeoning relationship throughout Season 6.

[shootemindehead]

I use the term because the "love triangle/who's screwing who" is a basic element of that type of show and it's perfectly applicable to this cheap writing angle that 'The Walking Dead' has exhibited from time to time. Of course "stories are stories", but there are tropes from various genres that are, far too often and unfortunately, bolted on and used to up the game without requiring too much effort.

Also, "Richonne" doesn't make a lick of sense. They never even gave each other a look in such a manner up until the moment we saw them in the sack and a couple of episodes ago we have Michonne going all gooey eyed at the prospect of Rick being scoffed and her not being able to cope without him etc. That's just bad writing right there. Completely unconvincing for me. There was no build up to such a move and it came off as, oh this is happening now?

Abe/Rosey/Sash is even worse. There's nothing there except for a desire to give those characters something to do before they're written off.

[MinionZombie]

Also, "Richonne" doesn't make a lick of sense. They never even gave each other a look in such a manner up until the moment we saw them in the sack and a couple of episodes ago we have Michonne going all gooey eyed at the prospect of Rick being scoffed and her not being able to cope without him etc. That's just bad writing right there. Completely unconvincing for me. There was no build up to such a move and it came off as, oh this is happening now?

Erm, totally disagree with you on Richonne.

In Season 5 we clearly saw Michonne come over all tingly when Rick emerged from the shower - shirtless and freshly shaved - and there was another episode (I can't recall which) where, kind of subtly, Rick was checking out Michonne as she walked away. Plus all the stuff I said in my previous post on the matter: they'd been moving closer and closer together as a unit over a considerable amount of time (there were a few time jumps during the growth of their relationship and we saw them get closer and more comfortable with each other with each time jump).

Abe & Sasha? Yep, we needed to see far more of it during Season 6. But Richonne? You're way off base. :D

[shootemindehead]

Nah, I'm not really buying it. To me there was no real indication to lead where we have it now. The Lovey dovey wovey thing doesn't fly here. I don't really recall any glad eyes to lead me to believe that there was anything going to happen and Rick certainly didn't seem to give a tinkers cuss when he was looking to get into the blonde girls knickers either (whatever her name was). It needed more building. Much more. Christ, if anybody should be getting together it's Carol'n'Daryl. In any case, it all just feels a bit too shippy.

Besides, even Andrew Lincoln didn't know it was going to happen, as far as I recall.

In addition, how is this now going to play out, "going forward" as it were? Happy clappy families? Michonne brown bread? After all, the women that get involved with Rick don't tend to hang around too long.