Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi (film)

[Neil]

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[ProfessorChaos]

anyone else get the feeling that this is going to be pretty much a rehash of empire strikes back? i think we've almost reached peak star wars, and we are now sacrificing quality for quantity. it just seems they keep retelling the same story and don't seem to want to try anything new or risky....just keep reiterating the same themes and ideas, just with more diversity in the casting. yay. :|

[Neil]

For me it's starting to feel more and more like Harry Potter!

[bassman]

anyone else get the feeling that this is going to be pretty much a rehash of empire strikes back? i think we've almost reached peak star wars, and we are now sacrificing quality for quantity. it just seems they keep retelling the same story and don't seem to want to try anything new or risky....just keep reiterating the same themes and ideas, just with more diversity in the casting. yay. :|

I think The Force Awakens was very intentionally referencing the original film. I personally don't feel like it was THAT similar or distracting, but I know that's one of it's biggest criticisms​ from fans. As the first film of this new trilogy, essentially re-introducing these characters to the audience, it makes sense that they kept the plot in somewhat familiar territory.

That being said, I don't think Last Jedi will borrow from Empire if because of nothing more than director, Rian Johnson being a really unique and independent director. All of his films have a very distinct​ stamp on them. Even his episodes of Breaking Bad, while part of the same series, very much stood out on their own("Fly"). So I don't feel like he would be the kind of writer/director to play it safe and rehash past entries.

[shootemindehead]

Difficult to know how it's going to turn out, but it's very true that 'The Force Awakens' "borrowed" from 'Star Wars' to idiotic levels. Nearly everything in it was a 2.0 version of what we've seen before. Coupled with some awful and meh characters, who engage in some really questionable actions, that film ended up be merely OK for me.

Frankly, 'Rogue One' wiped the floor with it. 'The Force Awakens' gets worse with every watch, 'Rogue One' gets better. if it was up to me, I'd give Gareth Edwards every single Star Wars film for the next 10 years.

[EvilNed]

Difficult to know how it's going to turn out, but it's very true that 'The Force Awakens' "borrowed" from 'Star Wars' to idiotic levels. Nearly everything in it was a 2.0 version of what we've seen before. Coupled with some awful and meh characters, who engage in some really questionable actions, that film ended up be merely OK for me.


I agree here. I have no high hopes for this film. I did not see Rogue One. Felt like the marketing team got to write a premise tailored to the what toys would sell the most.

[MinionZombie]

Rogue One rocked. :thumbsup:

I also dug Episode 7, and to be fair, A New Hope follows 'the Hero's Journey' so closely that it's hard to set a film in the same universe - that takes place in the 'Episodes continuity' without it feeling familiar. I would like to see Episode 8 tread its own path, but the similarities between 7 and 4 never bothered me that much. I think it was quite intentional. There was an article explaining that angle on it, but I can't recall where I read it.

[EvilNed]

Rogue One rocked. :thumbsup:

I also dug Episode 7, and to be fair, A New Hope follows 'the Hero's Journey' so closely that it's hard to set a film in the same universe - that takes place in the 'Episodes continuity' without it feeling familiar. I would like to see Episode 8 tread its own path, but the similarities between 7 and 4 never bothered me that much. I think it was quite intentional. There was an article explaining that angle on it, but I can't recall where I read it.

I don't think anyone is arguing wether it was intentional or not. That much is clear. But there are plenty of ways to retell a hero's journey without copying A New Hope almost scene by scene.

[shootemindehead]

I think it was obviously intentional. Disney wanted to play it safe. They want their billions back. But they played it soooo safe, it bordered on parody. We simply didn't need Tatooine 2, Empire 2, Death Star 2, ad nauseum.

Also, following a narrative structure like "The hero's Journey" isn't the same as directly ripping things out of one of the films in the same franchise, because you're afraid to make something new.

[MinionZombie]

I will admit that 'it's like the death star, just bigger' was the iffiest bit - still enjoyed it though - the Empire/New Order must be swimming in cash to keep pissing it up the wall on spherical death machines. :lol:

[EvilNed]

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Repeat after me:

"Disney is breathing fresh air into the franchise"

[MinionZombie]

Fudge sake ... they need new trailer editors! :lol:

But the art of trailer editing has been almost entirely lost in the last 15 years or so. Either they show you the whole damn movie, or they copy every other trailer out there ... but this takes the piss. :lol:

[JDP]

Fudge sake ... they need new trailer editors! :lol:

But the art of trailer editing has been almost entirely lost in the last 15 years or so. Either they show you the whole damn movie, or they copy every other trailer out there ... but this takes the piss. :lol:

I also miss that announcer guy who said things like "In a world gone mad..." with a deep voice. He could be heard in almost every damn movie trailer back in the day. He passed away some years ago.

[MinionZombie]

I also miss that announcer guy who said things like "In a world gone mad..." with a deep voice. He could be heard in almost every damn movie trailer back in the day. He passed away some years ago.

Aye, you don't get 'trailer voice guys' so much these days, do you? Now it's just lots of big words on the screen, or segments of sentences that are too spaced out by clips full of noises and dialogue so you've forgotten the first third of the sentence by the time you get to the second third of said sentence. :rolleyes:

[EvilNed]

I also miss that announcer guy who said things like "In a world gone mad..." with a deep voice. He could be heard in almost every damn movie trailer back in the day. He passed away some years ago.

He got fired.

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[Neil]

^^ lol!

[Neil]

So... Anyone seen it? Hearing very mixed reviews!!!

[shootemindehead]

Not yet.

But yet, very mixed audience reactions. There's a number of threads I've seen where some people are outright hostile to it. A lot of people are saying it's hamstrung by some really dumb "comedy" as well. That was one of the things I hated about 'The Force Awakens', which suffered from some terrible writing and poor characters.

It doesn't bode well.

- - - Updated - - -

So, yeh, saw this last night.

It's wildly unfocused film, with some truly terrible "comedy" moments that are so off, it's a wonder they made it in. It has parts that are very good, but some that are woeful. Unfortunately, the good parts cannot offset the bad parts. There's an entire "find the codebreaker" subplot that could have been stripped out or stripped back and a couple of new characters that need not have been there at all. One of whom (Rose) was a pure box ticking excercise and added nothing whatsoever.

There's an entertaining film in there trying to get out, but it's smothered by some dreadful decisions in writing, pacing and plot elements.

Is it better than the lack lustre 'The Force Awakens'? In parts yes, in parts no. But, I still come away from Disney's Star Wars thinking that the just don't know how to do it. In saying that, I thought 'Rogue One' was excellent, but that's looking increasingly like a one off (and probably has a lot to to with Edwards actually understanding the 1977 movie), but with zero enthusiasm for the upcoming 'Solo' and the depressing news that Jar Jar Abrams will helm Episode IX, it seems it'll be like that for the foreseeable future.

Maybe the inevitable 'Kenobi' film might add another entry that's worth watching?

[EvilNed]

Saw it Friday morning.

I have very little good to say about and a lot of bad.

Is it as dreadful as Lucas' prequels? No, but it suffers from completely different problems entirely.
The film continues to ignore large parts of the original trilogy, especially in terms of character development. The Luke presented in this film is in no way a continuation of the character from Return of the Jedi and there's some pretty jarring inconsistancies with his actions in that film and this film. That's actually my main gripe.

Other than that, as Shootem said, a large bulk of the middle act is pointless and literally runs into a dead end. They spend a lot of time following two of the characters, including a new pointless character named Rose, down a rather extensive sidetour that leads absolutely nowhere. Literally. You could have written the entire thing out, replaced it with something much shorter and gotten a similar result. It's unnecessary to the point where my jaw almost dropped.

Likewise, the film tries very hard to deconstruct the idea of any hero being a white male. All the heroes are either female or minorities. I don't mind the idea of this, but it's just so hamfisted that the result ends up being rather unfocused, like the subplot mentioned above.

[Neil]

^^ Oh dear :(

It's amazing how divided the review are!

[shootemindehead]

There's certainly a rift bewteen what critics are saying and what actual audiences are saying.

I can't help but feel if this film was sans Star Wars in the title, it would have been given a rougher ride by the professional critics.

[EvilNed]

There's certainly a rift bewteen what critics are saying and what actual audiences are saying.

I can't help but feel if this film was sans Star Wars in the title, it would have been given a rougher ride by the professional critics.

Maybe, but the opposite is true of the audience too. It carried a lot of baggage and screwed a lot of it up - on purpose.
If it hadn't been carrying all that baggage, it'd been a better film. But being part of the Star Wars saga can be a blessing and a curse.

[bassman]

I liked it a lot. Nobody can say it ripped off the OT, and I saw Luke's change of spirit made perfect sense. There were multiple flashbacks explaining it, even finally paying off that shot of his hand on R2 that we saw in the trailers for Force Awakens.

Visits from classic characters, and an ending that gave me the chills. I thought it was great.

[Moon Knight]

I liked it a lot. Nobody can say it ripped off the OT, and I saw Luke's change of spirit made perfect sense. There were multiple flashbacks explaining it, even finally paying off that shot of his hand on R2 that we saw in the trailers for Force Awakens.

Visits from classic characters, and an ending that gave me the chills. I thought it was great.

I’m with you. It was fun and because of the Star Wars name it’s gonna be harder for people to look past the issues, and yes, there were issues.

Some characters really deserved better.

Luke’s character segments by far was my favorite moments in the film. The classic call back to the original film gave me goosebumps.

So, in short, I really enjoyed the film and on the other, it really pissed me off. However, it’s not the worst Star Wars film made.

[bassman]

It was no doubt enjoyable to see the return of Luke, but for money, Rey and Kylo were the characters that really drew me in. I now see why those particular actors were cast and they're perfect for it! I truly felt like one could go in either direction.

[MinionZombie]

I liked it a lot. Nobody can say it ripped off the OT, and I saw Luke's change of spirit made perfect sense. There were multiple flashbacks explaining it, even finally paying off that shot of his hand on R2 that we saw in the trailers for Force Awakens.

Visits from classic characters, and an ending that gave me the chills. I thought it was great.


I’m with you. It was fun and because of the Star Wars name it’s gonna be harder for people to look past the issues, and yes, there were issues.

Some characters really deserved better.

Luke’s character segments by far was my favorite moments in the film. The classic call back to the original film gave me goosebumps.

So, in short, I really enjoyed the film and on the other, it really pissed me off. However, it’s not the worst Star Wars film made.

I'm with you guys. I finally got around to seeing it this afternoon.

It is fair to say that the casino subplot is ultimately fruitless in many ways, but I thought the direction of Luke in this film was challenging but ultimately rewarding and it made sense throughout the film. Indeed, it builds upon Kenobi and in-turn Yoda ... interesting that the themes of 'moving forward' seem to be have been missed by some of the complainers out there. Rey picks one avenue, Kylo picks another.

Snoke was also a hell of a lot better looking here than in the previous one. I know he's CGI, but it was far better looking in this one.

All this fuss about "the Porgs!", though, and they're barely in it. They're essentially pets, a cross between a puffin and a penguin that happen to be native to the island that Luke is on. They're comic relief at times, yes, and they're cute, yes, but they do very little in the movie - so the "oh, it's another friggin' Jar Jar" whines weren't called for.

Imperfect, but then again what is? Pacing wise I felt it was pretty solid (the casino stuff was too long, particularly as it's ultimately pointless in many ways), and the movement from scene-to-scene felt slick with the film cutting to the disparate characters at the right time when we needed to know what was coming.

The comedy is broader in certain instances, but then again is it really so out of line? Poe's stalling for time against Hux, for instance, is exactly the sort of thing Han Solo would (and did) do in the original movies. The Porg hitting the window? Yeah, a silly moment, but at the same time the little bugger isn't seatbelted in and the Millennium Falcon makes a sudden turn, so it is justified. I didn't feel like the humour damaged the film in anyway, it felt generally well balanced. Great work from pretty much everyone, I reckon, and in some ways it is bolder than a franchise of its age would usually be - but in such a way that still feels justified IMHO.

[bassman]

I’ve found that I enjoy The Last Jedi more and more with further viewings. It does have its issues, but I applaud Johnson for taking the series outside of its “comfort zone” and making a unique installment. It’s never going to be hailed as the best Star Wars film, none of these new films could ever live up to that title, but I do feel like it will fair better with the passage of time. At least these overly heated haters of the film will learn to judge it on its own terms rather than comparing it to “their” film in their own minds, anyway.

I also highly recommend the Home video release too, btw. There’s a fantastic feature-length documentary and Johnson’s commentary is a great listen!

[bassman]

A couple days ago I mentioned in the shoutbox that some fans had taken their opinions of the Star Wars franchise so far as to harass the actress that played Rose in TLJ with personal attacks against her looks, race, etc. She eventually deleted her social media accounts because of the attacks. That was sickening enough, but then today I see that these “fans” have banded together into some sort of group and are actually proud of their actions:

https://i.imgur.com/3xosHdT.png

That makes my skin crawl! Everyone is entitled to their opinion when it comes to films and by all means, it’s acceptable to hate The Last Jedi or any other film, but this is just sickening.

[blind2d]

A couple days ago I mentioned in the shoutbox that some fans had taken their opinions of the Star Wars franchise so far as to harass the actress that played Rose in TLJ with personal attacks against her looks, race, etc. She eventually deleted her social media accounts because of the attacks. That was sickening enough, but then today I see that these “fans” have banded together into some sort of group and are actually proud of their actions:

https://i.imgur.com/3xosHdT.png

That makes my skin crawl! Everyone is entitled to their opinion when it comes to films and by all means, it’s acceptable to hate The Last Jedi or any other film, but this is just sickening.

Oh wow, I'm with you, that's just revolting... :( I really liked Rose, and stuff, but... I just don't understand people like this. I wonder if they're too far gone for saving... :(

[MinionZombie]

The Finn/Rose segment of the movie mostly felt superfluous and was ultimately pointless for the Rebellion, even if it did serve a narrative purpose (so the bad guys could know where the good guys were heading), but that doesn't mean Kelly Marie Tran deserves that ... not in a million lifetimes.

Bizarre, too, in their wording with them calling themselves a rebel alliance ... the rebel alliance are one of the most inclusive groups in cinema history!

Now, there's a separate argument about tokenism in a much wider context of not only cinema but of society at large, but Rose's race has bugger all meaning in TLJ. The only disappointment was that the majority of the Finn/Rose subplot was kinda naff ... it had good bits, and it allowed other moments to be of import (e.g. the kid with the broom at the very end, the battle aboard the ship - although Phasma was practically blink and you'll miss her), but it did kind of feel sort of awkward amongst all the other stuff that was hardwired into the main thrust of the movie. For instance, Poe's subplot was really good.

But, again, KMT doesn't deserve that at all. :(

It's weird how you see some things like this, or different versions of it - like when Josh McDermott left social media because a bunch of TWD fans were badgering him over the actions of the fictional character he plays on TV. :rolleyes:

[shootemindehead]

https://i.imgur.com/3xosHdT.png

I wonder how real that is. So, we're to now believe that the low RT score for 'The Last Jedi' was orchestrated by this wanker? I thought it was Russian bots? :lol:

TBH, that tweet sounds more like it's an elaborate troll, rather than some neckbeard coming clean, as it were. This guy's probably never stepped outside is house to talk to anybody in the real world. It's some nobody looking for a few minutes of dubious "fame" on the back of The Last Jedi's dividing nature.

[bassman]

It’s only a rumor at this point, but some reliable sources are reporting that Lucasfilm and Disney are now putting their Star Wars spin-off/anthology films on an indefinite hold: http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/lucasfilm-rumored-to-be-putting-their-star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold-195-02

Of course one of the reasons leading to the decision is Solo’s box office returns. I personally think it’s stupid to cancel future movies because of only one film making moderate box office returns. What they should do instead, is focus more on the quality and stop mining characters or stories from the original trilogy. Make film with all new characters in different parts of the galaxy. It’s an endless well of possibilities, they just keep drawing from past films rather than being creative. I enjoyed Solo, but nobody was asking for a Han Solo prequel. The next films were also drawing from previous stories(Obi-Wan and Boba Fett), which begs the question of why start these anthology films and say you’re going to tell all new stories, but then only fill in some needless gaps in the history of established characters??

For now they’re focusing on Episode IX and Rian Johnson’s announced trilogy. I’d thought Johnson’s trilogy was also part of their anthology plan, but this suggests otherwise. Surely they’re not letting him make the next trilogy of the saga films? After The Last Jedi was so divisive among fans, I find it hard to believe that they’re giving him a whole trilogy, and giving him the next part of the saga films seems even more crazy.

[Neil]

I've not watched the last two films ("Last Jedi" and "Solo")...

[MinionZombie]

I dug "The Last Jedi". It wasn't perfect, but then again few films are.

The Star Wars thing in general - Solo flagged up the company's fear of veering from a very narrow path when they hired-then-fired Lord & Miller. Marvel are so successful in-part because they dare to do different things with their films, or at least they dare to have a different feel to them (spy thriller, comedy caper, heist movie etc) and get newer talents to helm their flicks.

Star Wars is playing it far too conservative with certain things. Likewise, I didn't need a Solo movie - and I've not watched it yet either, and will likely wait for it to roll around onto Sky Movies - and, as you say Bassman, they need to explore new characters and regions of the SW universe.

Another area where they need to fix things? ADVERTISING - good fucking God, SO MUCH GODDAMNED ADVERTISING. KNOCK IT OFF!!! The advertising for TLJ was so preposterously intense that, frankly, I think a lot of people were fed up with it before the movie had even been released. There was all the SW-specific advertising, but then there was so much of that 'synergy' advertising, whereby it's a car advert ... but Chewbacca and the Millennium Falcon turn up ... or it's an insurance advert ... but then the Meerkats are playing with BB-8 and lightsabers! TOO. MUCH. ADVERTISING. Months and months and months of relentless advertising ... get tae fuck! :mad:

So ... they need to explore entirely new characters & regions, they need to hire more creatively diverse filmmakers (e.g. Marvel hired Waititi for Thor 3, a film that nobody was really fussed about at all, and knocked it out of the park for a big success ... ... although I'm yet to see it, but it should roll around pretty soon on the telly by now!), and they need to stop shoving it down everyone's throats during every single advert break and on every single billboard/burger carton/whatever else.

A film every ruddy year? Too much Star Wars - every other year would be plenty.

[shootemindehead]

It’s only a rumor at this point, but some reliable sources are reporting that Lucasfilm and Disney are now putting their Star Wars spin-off/anthology films on an indefinite hold: http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/lucasfilm-rumored-to-be-putting-their-star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold-195-02

Of course one of the reasons leading to the decision is Solo’s box office returns. I personally think it’s stupid to cancel future movies because of only one film making moderate box office returns. What they should do instead, is focus more on the quality and stop mining characters or stories from the original trilogy. Make film with all new characters in different parts of the galaxy. It’s an endless well of possibilities, they just keep drawing from past films rather than being creative. I enjoyed Solo, but nobody was asking for a Han Solo prequel. The next films were also drawing from previous stories(Obi-Wan and Boba Fett), which begs the question of why start these anthology films and say you’re going to tell all new stories, but then only fill in some needless gaps in the history of established characters??

For now they’re focusing on Episode IX and Rian Johnson’s announced trilogy. I’d thought Johnson’s trilogy was also part of their anthology plan, but this suggests otherwise. Surely they’re not letting him make the next trilogy of the saga films? After The Last Jedi was so divisive among fans, I find it hard to believe that they’re giving him a whole trilogy, and giving him the next part of the saga films seems even more crazy.

Disney have no idea what to do with Star Wars. They're clueless. Into the bargain, they're trying desperately to "Mavelise" the series and that's completely the wrong way to approach it. Star Wars is not Marvel and it never will be.

They need to get a bit of balls and make new films, with entirely new characters and not keep hanging their coat on the old crew, especially in these types of "before they were famous" movies.

But, TBH, I don't see much of a future for Diswars at this point. 'Rogue One' is looking more and more like an outlier. An exception to a poor run. 'The Force Awakens' was a lazy nothing of a film. 'The Last Jedi' was terrible, apart from the scenes with Rey and Luke on the island and 'Solo' was a meh film that not even the fans wanted to see.

It's simply amazing, how Star Wars can keep getting screwed up continuously.

Also, after the disaster that 'The Last Jedi' was, I wouldn't Rian Johnson near another Star Wars film...ever. I think he may be getting shunted soon and there'll be a damage limitation type announcment about him "pursuing" other projects, while Disney regroup and try to figure out what it is they're doing that is so wrong.

[MinionZombie]

I disagree on The Last Jedi, and feel it's a better overall film that The Force Awakens, which had Rey too capable from the outset and fell back on fan service and 'memberberry style nostalgia (although I did rather enjoy it!). Rogue One worked very well, and I'd probably put that as top dog of the new films under Disney's roof. It managed to be in the same continuity, feature certain returning supporting characters and locations, but feature new protagonists who fit into the overall story, and it saw a return to '1970s Star Wars' and made Darth Vader badass again - and the third act is a veritable slaughter, but totally earns the right to do so.

Some of the hate that TLJ gets is, frankly, overblown and falls into the realm of simple hatin' - Ep7 was "too this, do it different" while Ep8 was like 'alright, bruv, how about this?' and these fans were like "wah, it's not enough like Ep7!" :rolleyes:

If RJ continues in the SW universe, I'd like to see him create his own assortment of characters and do his own thing within the sandbox rather than do another trilogy to follow Ep9. I think 9 films in the main continuity is more than enough and we need to see a much wider scope of stories, characters, and settings - hell, it's an entire universe filled with life and planets and such, so there must be plenty of stories to tell elsewhere in the SW realm!

[shootemindehead]

Nah, 'The last Jedi' just too stupid in too many areas and the "comedy" was woefully unfunny. Johnson is just not a humourous writer and his unneeded efforts at levity show that all too clearly. But, that doesn't mean that 'The Force Awakens' was a good film by any stretch and, yes, the story was a cut and paste job (what else would you expect from JJ Abrams) and the characters are dreck. Rey is a ridiculous wish fulfilment joke and Finn is probably one of the worst characters ever to be in a Star Wars film. He's completely the wrong type of person to fit that role and is never once convincing as somebody that had spent over 20 years as a soldier. He's so bad, Johnson didn't have a clue what to do with him in 'The Last Jedi' and had to create another rubbish character in Rose and send them of to Las Vegas planet just to give him something to do. Poe is just meh. Both of them take up far too much of Rey's time. The only one out of the new set that comes out looking well is Adam Driver's Kylo.

'Rogue One' is the only thing in Diswars that has kept me interested. Before that, I considered Star Wars a busted series. It still is.

Also, the "it's too samey/it's too different" thing doesn't work. The real problem is that they are just not good movies, 'Solo' included. 'The Last Jedi' was rubbish in too many areas. It matters not that it was "different". Different is fine, if the film is good. That film is littered with terrible writing. That slow space chase was laughable (especially when hyperspace is a thing) and the whole arc of Rose was fucking nonsense, right up to her dumb closing line. Awful, awful stuff. The kind of crap a 9 year old girl would write. If that's an indication of Johnson's character writing, he can stay away. Far away.

Agree on broadening the stories. It's what Star Wars needs. Maybe now that 'Solo' tanked, Disney will understand that they can't milk nostalgia forever and will have to either shelve the whole thing or take a risk and actually write something new. But, it needs to be in the hands of somebody who can actually write a good yarn. So far, apart from 'Rogue One', that's been serious lacking.

[MinionZombie]

RE: Ep8 & Hyperjump thingy - it did make sense, though, because usually you'd be able to hyperjump and get outta dodge and leave the baddies behind BUT The New Order has got new tech that allowed them to follow the Resistance, so that option was no longer viable for the Resistance. Plus it was the fuel consumption of hyperjump, they had enough fuel for one more jump - but said jump would be pointless because the New Order would be able to follow them - so it purely came down to a war of attrition with their rear shields just about managing to keep them at bay. The New Order just had to wait a little bit and wear them down without having to risk their own troops or fighters etc.

[shootemindehead]

I'm not talking baout the resistance. Why didn't the first order not hyperjump ahead and cut off the slow moving Resistance ships? That's what doesn't make sense. The whole idea is ill thought out and is too easy to poke holes in. But, it's just one example of how badly written the film was. There's tons of stuff that's been gone over, all across the web.

'The Last Jedi' was just careless with everything that came before it, and didn't give a shite about what came after. Johnson, almost litterally, threw everything over his shoulder.

There are some good parts, if we exclude the two completely redundant subplots and concentrate only on Rey/Luke. But, the film is largely a bad one, even objectively speaking.

[MinionZombie]

Can you hyperjump such a short distance, though? The system seems to have a wind up and wind down included, no? Hux was getting a kick out of it, too, taking the role of the sadistic Nazi type with a superiority complex.

I enjoy the Poe Dameron character quite a bit, but I do agree that Finn's arc in Ep8 was pretty perfunctory. There were a few snippets of purpose to that whole subplot, but the payoffs were very small (e.g. the peasant kid who pulls the broom to him using the Force).

[bassman]

I enjoy Last Jedi, but I do have to agree with shootem about it being a touch too “singular” for the trilogy. Rather than just giving Johnson the reigns and saying “do your thing”, they should have a more marvel approach in that they say “you have to hit these certain points, but other than that, make it your movie”. Basically Star Wars need a more Kevin Feige approach.

It’s going to be very interesting to see how Abrams follows Johnson and closes out this particular trilogy...

[shootemindehead]

Can you hyperjump such a short distance, though? The system seems to have a wind up and wind down included, no? Hux was getting a kick out of it, too, taking the role of the sadistic Nazi type with a superiority complex.

Sure, why. There are no rules for hyperspace and if there were, then have a character mention them and remove the questions from the audiences mind. It ends it just looking stupid and badly thought out. As for Hux, he's another awful character. He's a mincing joke, completely devoid of any real menace. Take the officers in the Empire. They're efficient and militaristic. They look the part. Hux looks like he walked in from a farce.[/QUOTE


I enjoy the Poe Dameron character quite a bit, but I do agree that Finn's arc in Ep8 was pretty perfunctory. There were a few snippets of purpose to that whole subplot, but the payoffs were very small (e.g. the peasant kid who pulls the broom to him using the Force).

Broom kid was woeful. Utterly pointless. That whole gamble planet thing should have been excised completely. All it does is adds running to an already overlong movie and Dameron's mutiny subplot was wretched. Holdo just comes across as complete jerk, more interested in teaching him a "lesson" rather than running the ship in Leia's absence. But, then, all the men in these films have been either stupid or incompetent in some way. Even Solo has to have help from Rey on the MF. A vehicle he's been flying for 40 bleedin years.

[bassman]

The casino thing should have been cut, or at least cut down, but I loved the idea of the peasant kids and the force. If nothing else, thst has the potential to break away from the Skywalkers and start telling different stories. That’s the same reason I’m hoping they don’t reveal Rey to be a descendant of the skywalkers or Kenobi. Enough with the family angle, it’s a whole galaxy.

[EvilNed]

The casino thing should have been cut, or at least cut down, but I loved the idea of the peasant kids and the force. If nothing else, thst has the potential to break away from the Skywalkers and start telling different stories. That’s the same reason I’m hoping they don’t reveal Rey to be a descendant of the skywalkers or Kenobi. Enough with the family angle, it’s a whole galaxy.

I disagree. Star Wars works best as a fairytale. Keep it to the Skywalkers.
The more we learn about the universe, the dumber it gets. Why would anyone call himself the Dark Lord of the Sith?

[bassman]

I disagree. Star Wars works best as a fairytale. Keep it to the Skywalkers.
The more we learn about the universe, the dumber it gets. Why would anyone call himself the Dark Lord of the Sith?

“Well you see that’s implausible with the writer’s intentions, etc etc.” :lol: :p

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

Anyway, I see what you’re saying but with all the major original characters now gone, one being an unfortunate early death, it kind of kills the possibilities of continuing that thread. Of course there’s still Ben/Kylo, but wasn’t the whole idea of these new films to move on to new characters and let the past be? I’d rather see Rey be “the one” like they’ve hinted at and it goes onto possibly a new family thread that can continue on into the new trilogies. The Skywalker thread is getting tougher to weave into these films.

[EvilNed]

“Well you see that’s implausible with the writer’s intentions, etc etc.” :lol: :p

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

Anyway, I see what you’re saying but with all the major original characters now gone, one being an unfortunate early death, it kind of kills the possibilities of continuing that thread. Of course there’s still Ben/Kylo, but wasn’t the whole idea of these new films to move on to new characters and let the past be? I’d rather see Rey be “the one” like they’ve hinted at and it goes onto possibly a new family thread that can continue on into the new trilogies. The Skywalker thread is getting tougher to weave into these films.

So dont continue Star Wars. Or tell another fairytale set in the world. But don’t try to explain shit, because that unravels Star Wars.

[Neil]

It’s only a rumor at this point, but some reliable sources are reporting that Lucasfilm and Disney are now putting their Star Wars spin-off/anthology films on an indefinite hold: http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/lucasfilm-rumored-to-be-putting-their-star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold-195-02

Of course one of the reasons leading to the decision is Solo’s box office returns. I personally think it’s stupid to cancel future movies because of only one film making moderate box office returns. What they should do instead, is focus more on the quality and stop mining characters or stories from the original trilogy. Make film with all new characters in different parts of the galaxy. It’s an endless well of possibilities, they just keep drawing from past films rather than being creative. I enjoyed Solo, but nobody was asking for a Han Solo prequel. The next films were also drawing from previous stories(Obi-Wan and Boba Fett), which begs the question of why start these anthology films and say you’re going to tell all new stories, but then only fill in some needless gaps in the history of established characters??

For now they’re focusing on Episode IX and Rian Johnson’s announced trilogy. I’d thought Johnson’s trilogy was also part of their anthology plan, but this suggests otherwise. Surely they’re not letting him make the next trilogy of the saga films? After The Last Jedi was so divisive among fans, I find it hard to believe that they’re giving him a whole trilogy, and giving him the next part of the saga films seems even more crazy.

Spoke to my friend at Pinewood tonight.

Supposedly Disney still have 5yrs of bookings at Pinewood, for the new trilogy of films, and a TV series...

[shootemindehead]

I disagree. Star Wars works best as a fairytale. Keep it to the Skywalkers.
The more we learn about the universe, the dumber it gets. Why would anyone call himself the Dark Lord of the Sith?

Um...I think one of the biggest mistakes Disney has made was hanging everything on the old crew, including the Skywalkers. They should have had the balls to forge ahead with new characters completely, but probably felt insecure as to how the audience would recieve them. Maybe they were right. Their new characters, Rey, Finn and Poe, were pretty bad. But, they didn't have to be.

'Rogue One' showed that new characters can be written well and work within an entirely new story, even if that story was hooked onto an already existing story.

I understand Disney's want to use the OT crew. But, in the end they scuppered them as well and angered many fans into the bargain.

[EvilNed]

Um...I think one of the biggest mistakes Disney has made was hanging everything on the old crew, including the Skywalkers. They should have had the balls to forge ahead with new characters completely, but probably felt insecure as to how the audience would recieve them. Maybe they were right. Their new characters, Rey, Finn and Poe, were pretty bad. But, they didn't have to be.

'Rogue One' showed that new characters can be written well and work within an entirely new story, even if that story was hooked onto an already existing story.

I understand Disney's want to use the OT crew. But, in the end they scuppered them as well and angered many fans into the bargain.

I just Said Keep it to the Skywalkers, not necessarily Luke or Anakin.

[MinionZombie]

I don't think you need to 'keep it to the Skywalkers', whoever they may be ... there's so many stories in such a populated universe. We could do with, perhaps, seeing some more concise and personal stories so you can really focus on entirely new characters in other movies in the franchise. It'd be good to take a slightly Marvel-like approach in terms of the creative direction of different movies within the same universe - so you could have a heist-centric movie, then have another that plays more like a gritty war film (we kind of got that with Rogue One, actually, which worked very well).

Indeed, thinking of Solo, in hindsight seeing how wobbly it's been (it's been Ron Howard's best ever box office opening IIRC, but on SW's own scale it's a poor showing) they'd have been much better risking it on the original directors - it'd be fascinating to know what that version of Solo would have been like. They might have done better to have remained bold, rather than lose their nerve as they did - and what a costly reversal it has been both in terms of budget and BO results.

[EvilNed]

I don't think you need to 'keep it to the Skywalkers', whoever they may be ... there's so many stories in such a populated universe.

Tell to many stories and the rather ludicrous setup falls apart tho.

[bassman]

Even though it’s not doing great by SW standards, and indeed has its issues, I think Solo is actually a good direction for the anthology films. If you kind of take out the fact that it has Han Solo in it, it’s a fantastically fun adventure film. It’s like a western film with train heists, gun duels, gambling, etc. It’s really fun and these films need that again. SW is supposed to be fun adventures. Last Jedi didn’t quite deliver the fun.

Solo is actually a successful direction for their spin off films in terms of the plot and separation from the main saga films, it’s just being seen in a negative light because of it featuring a young Solo.

[MinionZombie]

Tell to many stories and the rather ludicrous setup falls apart tho.

I don't really see it that way. As long as you play by the established rules, as it were, and don't radically change the tone (e.g. gross-out comedy, hyper-violent revenge thriller, romcom), then I don't see why telling other entirely different stories within the same universe would be a bad thing.

[EvilNed]

I don't really see it that way. As long as you play by the established rules, as it were, and don't radically change the tone (e.g. gross-out comedy, hyper-violent revenge thriller, romcom), then I don't see why telling other entirely different stories within the same universe would be a bad thing.

The premise is kinda dumb tho. The good and evil part of it. Only works in a fairytale.

[bassman]

I’ve heard a lot of people talking about Knights of the Old Republic, which takes place thousands of years before the Skywalker series. I’m not too familiar with it, but apparently it’s a fan favorite storyline. Maybe something like that, including it’s own journey or fairytale, could be something that would be more pleasing? Finish out this current trilogy, then maybe the Johnson trilogy could be this?

[shootemindehead]

Even though it’s not doing great by SW standards, and indeed has its issues, I think Solo is actually a good direction for the anthology films. If you kind of take out the fact that it has Han Solo in it, it’s a fantastically fun adventure film. It’s like a western film with train heists, gun duels, gambling, etc. It’s really fun and these films need that again. SW is supposed to be fun adventures. Last Jedi didn’t quite deliver the fun.

Solo is actually a successful direction for their spin off films in terms of the plot and separation from the main saga films, it’s just being seen in a negative light because of it featuring a young Solo.

It should never have been about Han Solo though. That's where its downfall lies.

Nobody wants/wanted to see Han Solo without Ford.

That movie should have been 'Kelly's Heroes' in the Star Wars galaxy. Have a bunch of Imperial soldiers fighting on that backwater planet and their CO dies. But, before he dies, he lets them in on a big score he heard about. They head off in seacrh of it, pursued by criminal gangs, the rebellion and the Empire.

There's your film.

No Solo. No Chewbacca. No Lando. No embarrassing fuck ups.

- - - Updated - - -


I’ve heard a lot of people talking about Knights of the Old Republic, which takes place thousands of years before the Skywalker series. I’m not too familiar with it, but apparently it’s a fan favorite storyline. Maybe something like that, including it’s own journey or fairytale, could be something that would be more pleasing? Finish out this current trilogy, then maybe the Johnson trilogy could be this?

'Knights of the Old Republic' was a computer game, put out when there was, literally, nothing Star Warsy about.

If you ask me, its popularity is perplexing and, frankly, it never felt like Star Wars to me. It's more fantasy based, as in 'Lord of the Rings' in a Star Wars setting. There's just a lot of people saying that they want to see that, because they liked the game 15 years ago. But, it doesn't mean it'll translate into a good film, or even a coherent story.

Star Wars is strange. It means so many different things to so many different people and they'll never get what they want. There's people out there "wanting" Boba Fett movies, Yoda movies, movies about Luke after 'Return of the Jedi', movies about Princess Leia before the 1977 film and it's all nonsense. None of those will work and certainly not on a level that will satisfy fans of all flavours. That's why Disney should just do new stories, with new characters, but based in a familiar universe. It's a big universe, George made it that way. But, filmmakers (including Lucas, it has to be said) keep reducing it down to the size of a backyard.

[bassman]

It should never have been about Han Solo though. That's where its downfall lies.

Nobody wants/wanted to see Han Solo without Ford.

That movie should have been 'Kelly's Heroes' in the Star Wars galaxy. Have a bunch of Imperial soldiers fighting on that backwater planet and their CO dies. But, before he dies, he lets them in on a big score he heard about. They head off in seacrh of it, pursued by criminal gangs, the rebellion and the Empire.

There's your film.

No Solo. No Chewbacca. No Lando. No embarrassing fuck ups.


Perhaps I didn’t get it across the way I’d wanted, but that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. It’s not a successful spinoff because of Han Solo, it’d in fact probably be a better film without him, but the execution of the film is exactly the kind of thing they need to do if they insist on continuing these spinoffs. If they’d used all new characters the way you suggest, I could see “Solo” gaining a much better reception as the western of the series. Much like the better reception of “Rogue One” being the heist film of the series.




That's why Disney should just do new stories, with new characters, but based in a familiar universe. It's a big universe, George made it that way. But, filmmakers (including Lucas, it has to be said) keep reducing it down to the size of a backyard.

Agreed. This is why I’m hoping Favreau’s TV series and Johnson’s proposed trilogy step away from the Skywalkers and the nine saga episode entries.

Speaking of Lucas....in a recent interview he gave a few hints as to the outlines he’d turned over to Kennedy for the new films after the purchase of Lucasfilm. Apparently he was going to dive even deeper into the midichlorian/blood thing from the prequels that most fans dislike. Maybe we should count our blessings with the new films that we did receive! :p

[ProfessorChaos]

former big-time star wars fan here, just chiming in to say i've not seen episode 8, nor do i plan to. not bothering with solo either. episode 7 was okay, but i really just prefer to leave it to the original trilogy and the prequels, which are far from perfect, but have some redeeming qualities. i did however, see rogue one...and i think it's a bit over-rated. everyone says "it's like a war film", but i've watched lots and lots of war films and rogue one was nothing to get excited about, sorry. just a bunch of fan-service and shitty characters in a story that wasn't terribly original, imo.

my star wars fandom pretty much died as the ink was drying on the contract lucas signed with disney. i knew they'd try to marvel-ize it, milk the hell out of it, and run it into the ground. like MZ was saying, the non-stop in-your-face advertising for star wars has been going on since mickey got his grubby hands on it, and it's beyond stale.

[shootemindehead]

Perhaps I didn’t get it across the way I’d wanted, but that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. It’s not a successful spinoff because of Han Solo, it’d in fact probably be a better film without him, but the execution of the film is exactly the kind of thing they need to do if they insist on continuing these spinoffs. If they’d used all new characters the way you suggest, I could see “Solo” gaining a much better reception as the western of the series. Much like the better reception of “Rogue One” being the heist film of the series.

Sure. I was agreeing with you, but I phrased it arseways. 'Solo' is diminished because it was a about Hank Solo and not Han Solo.

As regards these spinoffs, I think Disney really missed the trick here with expanding a recognisable universe. I, too, would see 'Solo' having a better reception if they'd made a separate character. In fact, the film could almost play out exactly the same way.

It still wouldn't have made a ton of money though, but probably could have been a modest success. The whole production, as it plays out, was a clusterfuck from beginning to end, with the hiring (and firing) of directors unsuited to such material. No monitoring of progress during the shoot (they completed 80% of the film before somebody said to Kennedy it was rubbish). Bad casting. Bad character ideas. Bad marketing, etc. It was a disaster from beginning to end and costs just spiraled out of control. In fact, it's amazing that Ron Howard managed to pull anything out of that fire. It still remains a, merely, mediocre movie that's cost upwards of 300 million dollars.


Agreed. This is why I’m hoping Favreau’s TV series and Johnson’s proposed trilogy step away from the Skywalkers and the nine saga episode entries.

Favreau maybe, if he can get away from kiddie star wars, like 'Rebels', and give his show a bit of grit, it might be good. I fear he may try and lace the show with stupid comedy moments and jokes. Johnson, probably, won't get his trilogy after the division over 'The Last Jedi' and I think that's a good thing. I'm not sure he's suited to this stuff.


Speaking of Lucas....in a recent interview he gave a few hints as to the outlines he’d turned over to Kennedy for the new films after the purchase of Lucasfilm. Apparently he was going to dive even deeper into the midichlorian/blood thing from the prequels that most fans dislike. Maybe we should count our blessings with the new films that we did receive! :p

Yeh, heard about those Lucas mumblings. Frankly, his ideas sounded terrible. Simply put, Lucas was a great ideas man, that needed somebody like Gary Kurtz to temper his steel. When he's let go about things "unregulated", as it were, we end up with the likes of the prequels.


former big-time star wars fan here, just chiming in to say i've not seen episode 8, nor do i plan to. not bothering with solo either. episode 7 was okay, but i really just prefer to leave it to the original trilogy and the prequels, which are far from perfect, but have some redeeming qualities. i did however, see rogue one...and i think it's a bit over-rated. everyone says "it's like a war film", but i've watched lots and lots of war films and rogue one was nothing to get excited about, sorry. just a bunch of fan-service and shitty characters in a story that wasn't terribly original, imo.

my star wars fandom pretty much died as the ink was drying on the contract lucas signed with disney. i knew they'd try to marvel-ize it, milk the hell out of it, and run it into the ground. like MZ was saying, the non-stop in-your-face advertising for star wars has been going on since mickey got his grubby hands on it, and it's beyond stale.

Yeh, Star Wars is not Marvel and it never will be. But, if somebody at Disney had a bloody clue, these films would almost make themselves.

But, really, the only thing I wanted from Disney was for them to release the original films on blu ray.

In saying that, I thought 'Rogue One' was superb and right up there with the original trilogy AFAIC. Gareth Edwards really got what made the 1977 film so interesting. As for it being "a war film", I can see why people would put it like that. It's a squad of troops going into enemy territory to get something. Kind of like 'Where Eagles Dare'. I also thought the characters were very good and they suited the tone of the film as well. Plus, the fan service was really limited to a few scenes only. If anything, there's far more fan service in 'The Force Awakens' than there is in 'Rogue One'.

[bassman]

But, really, the only thing I wanted from Disney was for them to release the original films on blu ray.

As I understood it, Disney couldn’t release the original trilogy for a few more years. I think Fox retained the rights to home video releases until 2020-something. Of course that could all change within the next year now that Disney is purchasing Fox.

[MinionZombie]

As I understood it, Disney couldn’t release the original trilogy for a few more years. I think Fox retained the rights to home video releases until 2020-something. Of course that could all change within the next year now that Disney is purchasing Fox.

Damn, I'd really like to see those original versions of Ep4,5,6 - carefully restored in HD without any of Lucas' sore-thumb CGI additions. I've avoided watching the original trilogy for a long time now specifically because of how dreadful most of those additions are.

Tweaks after the fact aren't always a bad thing - Blade Runner sets the template - very small things to make adjustments, some bigger (removal of that god-awful VO in the theatrical version) some smaller (e.g. in the final cut, although the colour correction in the final cut was excellent as it managed to get rid of the evident difference between live plates and matte paintings).

Those CGI changes to the original trilogy are just offensive in their obviousness, in their silliness, and even in how they mess things up for no good reason (making Han shoot second). I'd love to see the original trilogy - in it's original incarnation - in a spiffing HD restoration with only the most delicate of touches to the existing effects at the most (i.e. aforementioned colour correction, or improving the landspeeder effect).

[JDP]

Damn, I'd really like to see those original versions of Ep4,5,6 - carefully restored in HD without any of Lucas' sore-thumb CGI additions. I've avoided watching the original trilogy for a long time now specifically because of how dreadful most of those additions are.

Tweaks after the fact aren't always a bad thing - Blade Runner sets the template - very small things to make adjustments, some bigger (removal of that god-awful VO in the theatrical version) some smaller (e.g. in the final cut, although the colour correction in the final cut was excellent as it managed to get rid of the evident difference between live plates and matte paintings).

Those CGI changes to the original trilogy are just offensive in their obviousness, in their silliness, and even in how they mess things up for no good reason (making Han shoot second). I'd love to see the original trilogy - in it's original incarnation - in a spiffing HD restoration with only the most delicate of touches to the existing effects at the most (i.e. aforementioned colour correction, or improving the landspeeder effect).

Also known among hardcore fans as The Unfucked-with Trilogy.

[shootemindehead]

Damn, I'd really like to see those original versions of Ep4,5,6 - carefully restored in HD without any of Lucas' sore-thumb CGI additions. I've avoided watching the original trilogy for a long time now specifically because of how dreadful most of those additions are.

Tweaks after the fact aren't always a bad thing - Blade Runner sets the template - very small things to make adjustments, some bigger (removal of that god-awful VO in the theatrical version) some smaller (e.g. in the final cut, although the colour correction in the final cut was excellent as it managed to get rid of the evident difference between live plates and matte paintings).

Those CGI changes to the original trilogy are just offensive in their obviousness, in their silliness, and even in how they mess things up for no good reason (making Han shoot second). I'd love to see the original trilogy - in it's original incarnation - in a spiffing HD restoration with only the most delicate of touches to the existing effects at the most (i.e. aforementioned colour correction, or improving the landspeeder effect).

Download Harmy's despecialized editions. You can torrent it pretty easily. You won't be disappointed.

It's the only way I can watch those films these days.

[bassman]

Well, it turns out that they are indeed still moving forward with Rian Johnson’s trilogy. A new producer has signed on and stated that it definitely is all-new characters. Could see the first film within two or three years.

https://makingstarwars.net/2018/06/icymi-ram-bergman-to-produce-rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy/

[MinionZombie]

Well, it turns out that they are indeed still moving forward with Rian Johnson’s trilogy. A new producer has signed on and stated that it definitely is all-new characters. Could see the first film within two or three years.

https://makingstarwars.net/2018/06/icymi-ram-bergman-to-produce-rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy/

I'll be interested to see where it goes, what it'll be about, etc. New characters and everything - good! The haters will still find plenty to whine about, of course, but one thing they won't be able to whine about is Johnson doing anything they specifically don't like regarding existing characters. :p

[bassman]

JJ Abrams has announced his cast for Episode IX, and Carrie Fisher is included. Apparently there was sufficient extra footage from Force Awakens that is allowing them to “complete her story”. That sounds a bit sketchy to me, but I guess at this point they’ve already gone through all the footage and decided it could work.

[MinionZombie]

JJ Abrams has announced his cast for Episode IX, and Carrie Fisher is included. Apparently there was sufficient extra footage from Force Awakens that is allowing them to “complete her story”. That sounds a bit sketchy to me, but I guess at this point they’ve already gone through all the footage and decided it could work.

I was kinda hoping for this, because we do need to wrap up her story. It'll be interesting to see how they do it, likely a mish mash of CGI recreation and unused footage, and I wonder if there'll be digitally created lines of dialogue even. Obviously she was supposed to be in that movie, and they'd never do anything to disrespect her so I think this is fine and dandy to do.

I wonder what they'll do with Lando as he's coming back apparently. Will he actually survive to the end of the film? It'd be a bit of a piss take to kill him off as well.

[bassman]

They’d said before that they wouldn’t use CGI, ala Leia in Rogue One, out of respect for Fisher. So apparently they feel they can craft her scenes out of what was already filmed on the set of Force Awakens, and they got permission from her estate to do so. Surely it can’t be too substantial? I imagine it will only come to a few minutes of screen time.

[blind2d]

I'm sure bass is right, and I'm really looking forward to finally seeing Lando in this new trilogy! BILLY DEE!!! RIP Ms. Fischer as well. I still miss her.