TWD 8x07 "Time For After" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 8x07 "Time For After" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Larry Teng
Written by: Matthew Negrete & Corey Reed


Negan has to enlist the help of his lieutenants in solving a huge issue facing the Sanctuary; Rick and the group continue to enact the plan.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TWD-807-02.jpg

[Moon Knight]

The penultimate episodes are usually meh, hopefully this delivers. Season 2 and 3 had the best penultimates.

[facestabber]

The penultimate episodes are usually meh, hopefully this delivers. Season 2 and 3 had the best penultimates.

Season 2 continues to grow on me. It is my favorite season as a whole. And you are correct. Rick and Shane showdown with the impending horde closing in. Damn I loved it.

[Moon Knight]

Season 2 continues to grow on me. It is my favorite season as a whole. And you are correct. Rick and Shane showdown with the impending horde closing in. Damn I loved it.

Season 2 is very underrated imo. We just don’t get set ups like that anymore.

Tonight was exactly what I expected. Nothing amazing but not horrible. In fact, it was a poor choice to center the penultimate episode around Eugene. I just can’t take a whole episode dedicated to that character. Becomes grating.

However, I can’t believe they gave Rosita the cool Maggie line from the book. A nice little surprise considering I figured they just scrapped it for the show.

This episode wasn’t my favorite. Daryl and Tara aren’t very likable at the moment.

I also still can’t figure out why the group went back to the Scavengers for help. They nearly killed Michonne and they still trust them. Smh.

Anyway, the sneak peak from Talking Dead got me pretty hyped for the mid season finale.

[MinionZombie]

I wouldn't say Rick trusts the Scavengers/Heapsters. It's more of a necessary evil. Better to try and get them on Rick's side than have to face off with the Saviours and the Heapsters - especially as the Heapsters are free roaming the world (unlike the Saviours who are ... or were bottled up inside the Sanctuary).

I liked that Rick's plan worked to get them on side and that whats'ername got sod all but what Rick was willing to give her in the negotiations. :D Naturally, things have gone a bit pear-shaped because of Tara & Daryl. It was good to see Michonne and Rosita back down and decide to "believe in Rick Grimes" and trust in the plan. Even Daryl was wavering, but his allegiance to Tara (concerning Denise) tipped him over the line into (reluctantly) doing what they did. Would have been nice if Michonne and Rosita had fought a bit harder to try and prevent the dumptruck thing, mind you.

I'd imagine (and hope) that that very act - of crashing the dumptruck into the doors and letting the walkers inside the Sanctuary - will prove to be an act that comes back to bite someone in the arse at some point down the line in what comes after All Out War. It's an act that will likely stir up resentment within the civilian populace of the Sanctuary in particular - the ones who survive, at least.

It was interesting to see Eugene wrestling with this and that, trying to figure out which side to go for. He's in denial about the fact he's made the wrong choice and he's massively guilty about it and his part in allowing any badness to continue (e.g. his broken deal with Negan's 'wives'). Kinda funny to see him chugging a bottle of red wine as if it was a bottle of Jack, hehe. Now Dwight's more in-the-right than Eugene, simply because of Eugene's weakness.

Gabriel - so it's confirmed then: sick because of the guts. It would have been nice to have a bit more of that potential fed into prior uses of guts as camo, but at least they're covering it now. Fear The Walking Dead, meanwhile, continue to treat such a disgusting act as if it was merely a mud bath at a spa. :rolleyes:

Anyway, nifty psychological bits here and there as well: e.g. Negan vs Eugene and how he silver-tongued him into Negan's corner, manipulating Eugene's weakness etc, playing to his baser instints/needs by praising him (calling him his second most important person in the Sanctuary).

A better episode than last week, which was a bit patchy, and fortunately this one paid off the question mark that was Rick vs the Heapsters.

[JDP]

A better episode than last week, which was a bit patchy, and fortunately this one paid off the question mark that was Rick vs the Heapsters.

This part was not entirely clear. What was the purpose of capturing Rick? Just to take his boots and clothes, take pictures of him and then unleash a zombie on him so it could bite him? Pretty darn stupid and pointless "plan" (and there is no way this was a "test", like the one they already put Rick through before; Rick already proved to them that he was more than capable of taking on a zombie "mano a mano".) Rick is such a valuable prisoner. Negan would be most interested in getting his hands on him. These guys could have negotiated a new better deal with Negan by using Rick as the bargaining chip. Scoundrels like these would certainly have thought about the high price they could easily have asked for delivering Rick to Negan.

[MinionZombie]

This part was not entirely clear. What was the purpose of capturing Rick? Just to take his boots and clothes, take pictures of him and then unleash a zombie on him so it could bite him? Pretty darn stupid and pointless "plan" (and there is no way this was a "test", like the one they already put Rick through before; Rick already proved to them that he was more than capable of taking on a zombie "mano a mano".) Rick is such a valuable prisoner. Negan would be most interested in getting his hands on him. These guys could have negotiated a new better deal with Negan by using Rick as the bargaining chip. Scoundrels like these would certainly have thought about the high price they could easily have asked for delivering Rick to Negan.

I think maybe just a game of some sort. Jadis has a weird fascination with Rick - she wants to sculpt him in the nude, for cryin' out loud. Was Jadis hedging her bets, trying to make a decision over who to choose? The Heapster stuff has generally been awkward ... but pulling back a little bit, they're like a country who went from Axis to Allies when they saw the tide turning.

Building on a recent post I did in the thread for last week's episode, consider the communities of All Out War kind of like different countries. It's the World War of TWD, as opposed to disparate and localised spats between villages (Team Rick's previous fights with other groups on the show).

Meme:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tEr52af4Ub4/WiWA06E0-zI/AAAAAAAAFgM/Au9j8PO2HNE17kht_x4frK-jjNRHZMLRACLcBGAs/s1600/The_Walking_Dead_Seas_8_Meme_Eugene_Negan_Handshak e_Royal_Kiss_DeadShed_8x07.jpg

:)

[Moon Knight]

Negan is definitely playing to Eugene’s insecurities. That’s a joy to watch. Eugene is good to me in spurts, not the focus of an entire episode. However, I’ll give the show credit for interweaving other storylines into the current crop of bottle episodes. A nice compromise for the depressing season seven story structure.

Jadis isn’t playing with a full deck. It felt more like she was trying to humiliate Rick. I really want to know what she was like before all this but I don’t want an entire episode dedicated to her.

If she was a lone survivor that acted strange and made people uncomfortable I would enjoy her more. Surrounding her with an army of like minded weirdos is just a bit too cartoony; even for me. Still, when Jadis is on screen something draws me to her.

[MinionZombie]

Negan is definitely playing to Eugene’s insecurities. That’s a joy to watch. Eugene is good to me in spurts, not the focus of an entire episode. However, I’ll give the show credit for interweaving other storylines into the current crop of bottle episodes. A nice compromise for the depressing season seven story structure.

If she was a lone survivor that acted strange and made people uncomfortable I would enjoy her more. Surrounding her with an army of like minded weirdos is just a bit too cartoony; even for me. Still, when Jadis is on screen something draws me to her.

1) Handling different stories with disparate groups of characters within the same episode definitely helps. Adds a bit of variety to the episode's story and structure, keeps more paciness about it, and you're not left missing characters for too long. They've definitely been juggling the vast cast better in Season 8 than in Season 7, and much of that comes down to the structuring of the episodes/stories. They could go a little further with this current approach, even.

2) Yeah, if the rest were more 'normal' and just 'going along with their weird leader' it'd play better. Like, Ezekiel works because those around him act normally in contrast to his theatrics - but even still, we knew who he really was by the end of 7x02, and we've also seen the King image torn down these last few episodes. Jadis needs more work, less weirdness around her, but yeah, I don't want too much time spent on her at the same time. Not all that keen on the Heapsters generally. I don't despise them, but I don't miss them at all when they're not on screen. :p

[Moon Knight]

1) Handling different stories with disparate groups of characters within the same episode definitely helps. Adds a bit of variety to the episode's story and structure, keeps more paciness about it, and you're not left missing characters for too long. They've definitely been juggling the vast cast better in Season 8 than in Season 7, and much of that comes down to the structuring of the episodes/stories. They could go a little further with this current approach, even.

2) Yeah, if the rest were more 'normal' and just 'going along with their weird leader' it'd play better. Like, Ezekiel works because those around him act normally in contrast to his theatrics - but even still, we knew who he really was by the end of 7x02, and we've also seen the King image torn down these last few episodes. Jadis needs more work, less weirdness around her, but yeah, I don't want too much time spent on her at the same time. Not all that keen on the Heapsters generally. I don't despise them, but I don't miss them at all when they're not on screen. :p


Couldn’t agree more on both statements.

[DayoftheZ]

Up and down episode but for the most part I enjoyed it.

I loved the walkers flooding into the sanctuary, it really reminded me of Land of the Dead for some reason. Negan was once again a great watch.

I was glad to see Michonne and Rosita wise up to the plan which was doomed to fail (even if , as I say I liked how it played out.)

Can't say I am a fan of what the TV show has done with Eugene, as it's going to take a pretty big redemption story to make it believable he can become Team Rick again. He is playing the part well , but it seems to me like Eugene is a bad guy now and not just playing it safe.

Once again the Garbage Gang killed an episode dead, such a waste of screen time. I have to say, I'm not a fan of the spike helmeted walkers either.

[MinionZombie]

I loved the walkers flooding into the sanctuary, it really reminded me of Land of the Dead for some reason. Negan was once again a great watch.

I was glad to see Michonne and Rosita wise up to the plan which was doomed to fail (even if , as I say I liked how it played out.)

Can't say I am a fan of what the TV show has done with Eugene, as it's going to take a pretty big redemption story to make it believable he can become Team Rick again. He is playing the part well , but it seems to me like Eugene is a bad guy now and not just playing it safe.

1) Aye, I see what you mean. Perhaps it's the 'industrial surroundings' element, like when the zombies invade the slums first before heading to the tower?

2) Yeah, I liked that Michonne and Rosita realised they'd got what they needed - they needed to see the plan working - and didn't want to screw it up further. Might have been nice if they fought a bit harder, especially as Michonne dropping out had Daryl on the edge of packing it in, too. He reluctantly went along with the plan, but this way there should be consequences and unfortunate ramifications further down the line.

3) Eugene is an interesting case. He was taken hostage, essentially, so might there be an element of Stockholm Syndrome involved? Certainly he just went along with it to make life easier as he saw no immediate way out (or rescue coming - Rosita entirely forgot about him quite quick! :lol: ), he even found some common ground with the 'wives', then he became trapped - then war breaks out and he's stuck on the wrong side of the front line, forced to hedge his bets in order to survive. He admitted his cowardice recently IIRC, so it plays into that. I had thought in this episode he might decide to go along with Dwight - but he failed that test - however, his 'down the wine' moment suggests he knows he made the wrong choice there. He's guilty about the cowardly choices he's made and is trying to self-medicate to forget about it, but sooner or later he'll have to sober up and face it head-on.

Might he end up in some kind of limbo exile? Might he be left behind at the Sanctuary as a fragile ally, a sort of 'man on the inside' for Team Rick's benefit, but to also keep him at arm's length until he can prove himself and make up for his cowardice?

:)

[shootemindehead]

Decent episode that - except for the trash heap scenes. They need to go asap.

But, by christ, I want to see that mullet wearing autistic sack of crap dead. I was nearly roaring at the TV for Dwight to just push him off into the zeds below. He's a different character to what appeared in the comic for sure, but Josh McDermott is doing a great job. I absolute hate the git. :lol:

[Moon Knight]

Eugene is a different character for sure but I think it makes him more interesting. I really don’t like his comic book version. Josh’s version is much more enjoyable. Funny thing is, at this point, I want him dead too.

That Land of the Dead comparison was spot on.

[JDP]

Eugene is a different character for sure but I think it makes him more interesting. I really don’t like his comic book version. Josh’s version is much more enjoyable. Funny thing is, at this point, I want him dead too.

But put yourself in his shoes, though. If he did not comply with what Negan tells him to do, he would be dead by now. I see Eugene more as a victim of circumstances that are beyond his control. He is doing what it takes not to get killed. His only choice at this point to remain loyal to his previous group would have been to feign failure to come up with solutions to the Savior's problems, but Negan has cut short this possibility by letting him clearly know that unless he comes up with workable & effective solutions to the problems he is on top of his execution list. It seems to me that Eugene has pretty much been pushed into being a "bad guy". He did not have much of any choice left but to become one.

[shootemindehead]

It's the gusto with which he's selling out his former comrades that's dirty though. Former comrades that were willing to overlook his previous selfishness and take him into the fold.

The guy's a shit. No matter what rocks and hard places he finds himself in.

[Moon Knight]

When Eugene told Gabriel he’s just “keeping himself alive and pretty damn good at it” was the moment he was lost to me. I get it’s in character but that’s just plain selfish. He’s been doing this from the start, beginning with Abraham.

Funny thing is the writers were definitely going the comic route during seasons 5-6 then changed course during season 7. He’s really not the same character to me.

Looks like he helped the Saviors escape and is ready to turn in Dwight at any moment.

[Neil]

Once again the Garbage Gang killed an episode dead, such a waste of screen time. I have to say, I'm not a fan of the spike helmeted walkers either.

Agreed. Whenever they're involved it just feels like a contrived pantomime!

[JDP]

Looks like he helped the Saviors escape and is ready to turn in Dwight at any moment.

But look at the pressure he's under, though. It is very easy for Dwight to tell him "just do nothing, and you will be on the winning side", but that does not take into account the fact that Negan has given Eugene a deadline: if he does not come up with workable solutions to their problems in due time, he is the first one who will be executed. If I was Eugene, my answer to Dwight's suggestion would be: "Fine, but if by date X you have not killed Negan, I will have to take action and solve the problem, otherwise I am the one who will be dead-meat." Feigning failure to come up with viable solutions for the Saviors' problems in order to stall for time is no longer an option for Eugene. Negan has eliminated that possibility by giving Eugene a deadline.

[Moon Knight]

But look at the pressure he's under, though. It is very easy for Dwight to tell him "just do nothing, and you will be on the winning side", but that does not take into account the fact that Negan has given Eugene a deadline: if he does not come up with workable solutions to their problems in due time, he is the first one who will be executed. If I was Eugene, my answer to Dwight's suggestion would be: "Fine, but if by date X you have not killed Negan, I will have to take action and solve the problem, otherwise I am the one who will be dead-meat." Feigning failure to come up with viable solutions for the Saviors' problems in order to stall for time is no longer an option for Eugene. Negan has eliminated that possibility by giving Eugene a deadline.

Hmmm, perhaps. Makes sense.

I keep flipping on feelings with this guy and I guess that’s the point.