FEAR The Walking Dead - Season 4 discussion...

[MinionZombie]

This thread is to discuss all of Season 4 of Fear The Walking Dead - bear in mind that there will be spoilers current to the latest episode that has been broadcast as the conversation continues.

4x01 "What's Your Story?" (airs April 15th 2018)

Directed by: John Polson
Written by: Scott M. Gimple & Andrew Chambliss & Ian B. Goldberg

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FTWD-S4-characters-01.jpg

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FTWD-S4-characters-03.jpg

[Harleydude666]

I don’t know how you guys feel bit Fear got a whole lot better last season after a sub par first two seasons. The new trailer looks great and very curious how Morgan will fit in. Personally I have no problem with the characters crossing over AS LONG as it’s done well and tastefully.
Would be cool if it turned out that Rick and Madison were brother a sister. Just a thought

[MinionZombie]

To be honest, some of my issues with Fear are just inherent to the setup - mainly that it's too similar to TWD in that we're following a group of civilians again. We've got that well covered on TWD, whereas Fear had the opportunity to explore other sides (e.g. government, military etc) and ignored that. We saw glimpses of it in Season 1, but I so wanted to see far more from that side of things as something different (imagine underground government bunkers - you could still deal with zombie action, but you'd have different problems and interpersonal machinations to deal with instead of retreading ground that was covered on TWD years ago).

I also feel that Fear struggles to fill its episode order of 16. TWD could benefit from being trimmed down to 12, but Fear has never managed to fill out the 13 and 16 episodes of the past two seasons.

This all said, an injection of new characters and a big time jump and a new showrunner has stopped me from abandoning the show (for now, anyway). I'm interested to see who these new people are and hopefully get some better stories and character arcs (some stuff in Season 3 felt too scrappy, or a bit 'been there done that', or generally unsatisfying - they really buggered the Nick character around quite a bit). Of course, it'll be interesting to see how Morgan factors into all this, too.

I get the suspicion that we'll see some flashback episodes or segments along the way explaining some stuff during the time jump as the gap is far greater for Fear than it will be for TWD when it goes into Season 9 (so we're hoping for, anyway).

[beat_truck]

I recorded it, but haven't even bothered watching most of the last season yet. The only reason I'm going to continue watching is hearing that it is supposed to improve more.

One of my biggest problems with the show is that they didn't even really show much of what they said the series would be about, which was the beginning of the outbreak. Well, they showed tiny glimpses for a few episodes, I guess.:rolleyes: That, and the first two seasons just felt like a watered down TWD knockoff. And then there is the whole Nick covering himself in guts as camo thing.:annoyed:

[Moon Knight]

Reviews are in and early reports say it’s S4 is better than anything TWD has ever done. Source is Forbes. Overhyped? Maybe but I can’t wait to find out for myself.

[Buzzbomb]

I'm worried that the changes in Series 4 are going to be detrimental to the Fear... TWD has got so much crap dialogue & wooden acting.
I enjoyed Fear series 3, especially the reprisal of Kim Dickens and Dayton Callie from Deadwood, though both shows are a bit bonkers plotwise.

[beat_truck]

I'd still like to know exactly how Morgan is going to get from VA to CA/Mexico (or wherever they are currently), when TWD characters just barely got from GA to VA. And, assuming the FTWD universe is at least a year or two behind TWD, are they going to jump that far ahead in time, plus however long it would Morgan to make his trip? Hmm.:rockbrow:

[MinionZombie]

Reviews are in and early reports say it’s S4 is better than anything TWD has ever done. Source is Forbes. Overhyped? Maybe but I can’t wait to find out for myself.

As-fucking-if. :rolleyes: :lol:

Not to slag off the show unfairly, but come on Forbes... :rockbrow:

Now, if it's a case of the best that Fear itself has ever been? Well that's something to go on and even look forward to.


I'm worried that the changes in Series 4 are going to be detrimental to the Fear... TWD has got so much crap dialogue & wooden acting.

Eh?! :stunned:


I'd still like to know exactly how Morgan is going to get from VA to CA/Mexico (or wherever they are currently), when TWD characters just barely got from GA to VA. And, assuming the FTWD universe is at least a year or two behind TWD, are they going to jump that far ahead in time, plus however long it would Morgan to make his trip? Hmm.:rockbrow:

Yep, it's gonna have to be that big of a time jump for Fear, although I do wonder if we'll get flashbacks along the way showing some of the 'then-to-now' stuff of how they hooked back up after that dam was blown up (frankly it's a bit "you wot mate?" that the four main leads all survived that and regrouped!)

In the trailer there's a great big truck thing that Morgan is seen in, so I'm assuming he drove in that (but I imagine it was terribly thirsty to make such a lengthy trip across multiple states) ... maybe he only drove in it part of the way? Making such a trek, with all the dangers along the way, does seem a bit odd.

[Moon Knight]

I’m assuming Morgan ran into the driver of the truck fairly early in his journey and they both traveled to Texas together.

Yeah I don’t buy that review fully but one thing is for sure, you can tell they really gave the show a much needed makeover. It actually does look and feel different going by the trailers.

[MinionZombie]

I’m assuming Morgan ran into the driver of the truck fairly early in his journey and they both traveled to Texas together.

Yeah I don’t buy that review fully but one thing is for sure, you can tell they really gave the show a much needed makeover. It actually does look and feel different going by the trailers.

Aye, it does look better just going off the trailers. They'd killed off several cast members last season so that helped make some room, and I'm glad to see the Mexican lady return after she went her own way in Season 2. It's a little weird that she just went off and now she's back, but anyway...

I'm really looking forward to Garrett Dillahunt's role on the show. I've enjoyed many of his appearances in various things along the way (e.g. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, Raising Hope, and heck, he was easily the best part of the Last House on the Left remake ... although I don't mean to damn with faint praise on that last point), and it looks like he's got a cool kind of gunslinger-ish character about him.

[Moon Knight]

A gunslinger in the ZA? I’m in.

[Harleydude666]

Have a strong feeling this is where the writing for Fear overtakes the writing for TWD

[MinionZombie]

So I put up a damn thread and nobody's got anything to say? :rolleyes::p

Anyway - watched it last night - it was the best damn episode of Fear since 1x01.

Mind you ... this episode featured four TWD characters, a TWD setting, and two new (good & cool) characters - John and 'Al' - and some Fear regulars only turned up in the last couple of minutes (in a good 'twist' vibe of an ending). The real test is gonna be if the show can sustain this quality beyond 4x01 as familiar faces return.

However, just going on this episode alone, they're off to a good start with Season 4 and it makes sense doing it this way - you give plenty of time to the 'Morgan crossover', but you also spend the vast majority of time on new characters to try and bring back some viewers who ditched the show after the dodgy second and third seasons. I hope this new showrunner has injected a new lease of life into Fear, because good lord did it need it. Fingers crossed they maintain this quality throughout the season from here on out ... but on past form I'm not holding my breath, but it's a good start.

Really digging the John character. Cool gunslinger of the apocalypse vibe, but he's also kind of a romantic (seemingly) and has a strange off-kilter niceness about him, and 'Al' is a nifty new face on the show also (sweet ride, too!) ... what's with the documentary stuff? Heck, it's a little bit World War Z, ain't it? Nice to get a bit of that 'documenting the apocalypse' stuff seeing as WWZ completely ballsed up the source material, eh?

Went a bit overboard with the desaturation, though. :D

[Harleydude666]

So I put up a damn thread and nobody's got anything to say? :rolleyes::p

Anyway - watched it last night - it was the best damn episode of Fear since 1x01.

Mind you ... this episode featured four TWD characters, a TWD setting, and two new (good & cool) characters - John and 'Al' - and some Fear regulars only turned up in the last couple of minutes (in a good 'twist' vibe of an ending). The real test is gonna be if the show can sustain this quality beyond 4x01 as familiar faces return.

However, just going on this episode alone, they're off to a good start with Season 4 and it makes sense doing it this way - you give plenty of time to the 'Morgan crossover', but you also spend the vast majority of time on new characters to try and bring back some viewers who ditched the show after the dodgy second and third seasons. I hope this new showrunner has injected a new lease of life into Fear, because good lord did it need it. Fingers crossed they maintain this quality throughout the season from here on out ... but on past form I'm not holding my breath, but it's a good start.

Really digging the John character. Cool gunslinger of the apocalypse vibe, but he's also kind of a romantic (seemingly) and has a strange off-kilter niceness about him, and 'Al' is a nifty new face on the show also (sweet ride, too!) ... what's with the documentary stuff? Heck, it's a little bit World War Z, ain't it? Nice to get a bit of that 'documenting the apocalypse' stuff seeing as WWZ completely ballsed up the source material, eh?

Went a bit overboard with the desaturation, though. :D

I already like the two new characters more than half the Walking dead regulars i.e. Tara, Enid, Aaron, Jadis, etc

[Moon Knight]

This is gonna be better than season 8.

Telling you, MZ, Fear has been steadily getting better and better and now it’s a completely new show. I’ll know for sure after the next episode.

[MinionZombie]

This is gonna be better than season 8.

Telling you, MZ, Fear has been steadily getting better and better and now it’s a completely new show. I’ll know for sure after the next episode.

Steady on, lad. :D

Fear got "steadily better"? I don't agree with you on that, it just went downhill for me, which was a bummer. I never felt all that fussed about the antagonists, the regular characters that I did like started to do stupid or annoying things - even Madison was on shaky ground for a spell there - and it was so chock full o'filler too often. It always felt drawn out.

There were certain characters or episodes or parts that I quite enjoyed, but I was ready to pack it all in by the end of Season 3 - only the drastic changes have brought me back out of curiosity and I've been rewarded with a groovy 4x01. We'll see how it goes from this point forth...

[Moon Knight]

Let me explain better. Seasons 1-2 weren’t really doing it for me. Season 3 though? That’s where the show started to pick up. Fear to me at this point isn’t any worse than the main show. Where the main show is killing me with it’s formuilac format like having Rick constantly away from the group to the same narrative being told over and over, Fear at least takes chances with its storytelling.

Both shows do share similar faults of course like the need to constantly separating everyone; a flaw I really hope both shows fix. S8 did a good job of staying away from complete bottle episodes and that’s why it was superior to S7.

In the end all I’m saying is that Fear isn’t the bad show it once was. It actually does feel different than the flagship program.

Loving the new characters so far.

[MinionZombie]

Fear at least takes chances with its storytelling.

Now that they've got a new showrunner, have done a massive time jump, and have inserted a whole bunch of new faces (plus Morgan).

And did you forget the major death mid-way through Season 8 of TWD? That was a major shake-up shocker.

I don't get this 'same thing over and over' criticism of TWD either, especially in relation to All Out War, as AOW has been different from any previous conflict with a climax that, again, is unlike any previous clash with antagonists and "what comes after" is, likewise, different from any previous conflict. :rockbrow:

The problem with FearTWD in the 2nd and 3rd seasons was it abandoned it's reason for being (to show the initial outbreak) and then went about retreading ground that TWD had already done (e.g. crazy Chris, various moral quandries).

Now, though, 4x01 feels like a new show - for the better - but I just hope they can maintain that from this point forth.

VIEWING FIGURES - the live airing figures showed a good bump for FearTWD. Season 3 had closed with 2.23m (after a series low of 1.99m for 3x11), but Season 4 kicked off with 4.09m ... there'll be the 'lookie lou' factor to take into account, so we'll see what next week brings, but of course these - much like with TWD - are just the live figures.

[Moon Knight]

The same thing over and over I was referring to is plot elements like “Are we too far gone?” “Should we kill or not kill?” “Can we come back from this?” and how many times has Rick gone from good guy, to murder jacket Rick, back to morally good Rick.

MZ, you got me mistaken haha you know how much I defended the show. But the four points I made above are issues to me that are always present somehow. On way or another. :)

As far as taking chances- I should have said they don’t shy away from gore and violence as much and yes they even added the two F bombs we were promised. :D

Okay that above point was kinda tongue in cheek.

[MinionZombie]

The same thing over and over I was referring to is plot elements like “Are we too far gone?” “Should we kill or not kill?” “Can we come back from this?” and how many times has Rick gone from good guy, to murder jacket Rick, back to morally good Rick.

As far as taking chances- I should have said they don’t shy away from gore and violence as much and yes they even added the two F bombs we were promised. :D

1) Yeah, we've had Rick swaying a bit, but you could also argue it's a seesawing world and scenarios he's dealing with change. However, all those things were repeated on FearTWD as well, to far lesser effect, both in terms of their execution as well as the fact that TWD had already covered them.

2) Really? Where were the f-bombs? :confused:

[Moon Knight]

1) Yeah, we've had Rick swaying a bit, but you could also argue it's a seesawing world and scenarios he's dealing with change. However, all those things were repeated on FearTWD as well, to far lesser effect, both in terms of their execution as well as the fact that TWD had already covered them.

2) Really? Where were the f-bombs? :confused:

For Fear? Nick dropped one as did Madison.

I agree, though, Fear did rehash some of the same themes TWD has done. Either way, I'm pretty hyped for this new season of Fear. I think it doesn't get a fair shake as of late but that's just my opinion. Both shows has flaws but I still enjoy them both tremendously.

[MinionZombie]

For Fear? Nick dropped one as did Madison.

Oh, in FearTWD? Ah, I thought you were talking about the supposed f-bombs they were gonna drop on TWD at some point in Season 8 (but then never happened despite the tee-hee-hee tease they made of the whole thing, along with the *gasp* naked walker! :rolleyes: )

[Moon Knight]

Oh, in FearTWD? Ah, I thought you were talking about the supposed f-bombs they were gonna drop on TWD at some point in Season 8 (but then never happened despite the tee-hee-hee tease they made of the whole thing, along with the *gasp* naked walker! :rolleyes: )

Haha yeah, dude, false advertisement!

[MinionZombie]

4x02 "Another Day in the Diamond"

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Andrew Chambliss & Ian B. Goldberg

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FTWD-402-01.jpg

Can episode two live up to the fresh new feeling of 4x01? Let's find out...

[Moon Knight]

I liked it, but, reserving judgement until we see what the heck happened with the Vultures outside their camp. Ffs we literally just went through this. Hopefully there is a twist. There has to be! I also hope Madison isn’t dead.

[JDP]

The episode was quite short on explanations as to how they got from the whole mess at the dam to the baseball stadium. They obviously will stretch these explanations through "flashbacks" in several episodes.

[MinionZombie]

Solid episode. Enjoyed it. Liked little details such as the exploding baseball distractions and the three presses on the walkie talkie.

Do you reckon that girl poisoned the crops, or was it just a convenient bit of bad luck for The Diamond that the Vultures could throw into their spiel?

[Moon Knight]

Solid episode. Enjoyed it. Liked little details such as the exploding baseball distractions and the three presses on the walkie talkie.

Do you reckon that girl poisoned the crops, or was it just a convenient bit of bad luck for The Diamond that the Vultures could throw into their spiel?

I was asking the same thing. I don’t believe she did anything to the crops after thinking about it. It’s still possible though.

I don’t mind them slowly peeling back layers of the past to give us the full story as long as it’s engaging. Nice to see them work together the way they were. Makes them look smart.

[MinionZombie]

Nice to see them work together the way they were. Makes them look smart.

Aye. I'd like to see more team work on TWD as we've had too many rogue agents amongst the group sodding off to do what they want instead of planning as a group, or regrouping before charging back in. I'd like to see that sorted out in Season 9.

Yep. As long as the before/now structure is backed up by engaging storytelling, characters, and week-to-week cliffhangers to keep you invested, then it should be okay. I do hope that it won't mean the "now" segments with John, Morgan, and 'Al' get sidelined (i.e. for fear of giving away spoilers of the "before" segments - e.g. at this point we don't know if Madison is okay or not as she isn't part of that group, but surely she'll be alright as she's the Rick of FearTWD and an incredibly important role, but they want us to ponder and worry about that :shifty: ).

[JDP]

I just re-watched the episode again, and noticed something I forgot to point out before: the strategy of this "vulture" gang seems rather risky. Camping right within shooting distance of the people you are trying to intimidate into giving you their stuff does not sound like a very a good plan. And these guys are not even bothering to take cover behind their vehicles, nothing, they just sit around drinking beer in plain sight. If you are the group "under siege" it seems like all you have to do to get rid of these clowns is put all your snipers ready in position and start shooting them down. If some of them manage to run for cover, then take down their vehicles by shooting their engines & tires so they can't use them. Now they are paralyzed and can't move around. Sitting ducks. They will sue for peace soon enough.

[MinionZombie]

4x03 "Good Out Here"

Directed by: Dan Liu
Written by: Shintaro Shimosawa

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FTWD-403-01.jpg

Episode 4x02 saw a dip from 4.09m to 3.07m for the live viewing figures, although that's to be expected because of the 'lookie lou' factor, especially as 4x01 was riding straight on the coat tails of TWD's season finale and was placed before Talking Dead. A slightly bigger dip than I was thinking might happen, but we'll see how 4x03 fares compared to 4x02.

[Buzzbomb]

Enjoyed EP1, but would have preferred more screen time with the regular cast.
The de-saturation thing that kicked in after Morgan left the dump was interesting, what with the camcorder screen stilll being in full colour...

It's a shame that Amazon here in the UK are a well & truly behind - EP2 won't be available until next Wednesday... so I guess I'll be reading this thread once the series is over.

The Swat vehicle & camcorder gal reminded me a little bit of Land & Diary...

[Moon Knight]

I personally like the washed out filter they are using.

- - - Updated - - -

This episode was brilliant. I don’t think anyone saw that coming.

[MinionZombie]

Well there goes a big one ... took me by surprise, did that. The actors did a cracking job in that scene, particularly Frank Dillane, so hats off to 'em.

It'll be interesting to see how the flashbacks are affected in terms of tension/suspense/etc now that we now what ultimately happens to a couple of key players. There's still some mystery (i.e. Madison, "The Diamond" compound), but hopefully the flashbacks don't falter from 'prequelitis'.

Solid story and I liked the mixing together of flashbacks and present day stuff (now the incredibly desaturated look makes more sense as a way of visually distinguishing past and present in a very simple and recognisible manner).

I'm definitely enjoying Season 4 a shedload more than Seasons 2 and 3.

[JDP]

WTF??? They killed Nick!!! And it's not even the season finale.

As predicted: they are going to stretch the "flashbacks" for quite a bit.

[MinionZombie]

I'm hoping that the 'past/present' structure will help cover any sense of it feeling dragged out, you know, help the pacing feel a bit brisker than you might have otherwise had. Fingers crossed. I reckon we've had a solid first three episodes to this season. :)

[Moon Knight]

You can just feel the difference compared to prior seasons. As a fan of Lost I don’t mind the flashbacks if done right and this episode proves it can work.

I won’t lie, I was prepared for Madison’s death at the end but switching it up and killing Nick was a real gut punch. Loved how they handled his death.

[Harleydude666]

You can just feel the difference compared to prior seasons. As a fan of Lost I don’t mind the flashbacks if done right and this episode proves it can work.

I won’t lie, I was prepared for Madison’s death at the end but switching it up and killing Nick was a real gut punch. Loved how they handled his death.

Great episode, however, Madison is kidnapped by that flag group and that’s why Strand and Alicia want to be taken to that group. My feeling anyway that she’s not dead.
I hope they don’t blow it this season because I’m enjoying the hell out of it

[Moon Knight]

Great episode, however, Madison is kidnapped by that flag group and that’s why Strand and Alicia want to be taken to that group. My feeling anyway that she’s not dead.
I hope they don’t blow it this season because I’m enjoying the hell out of it

Yeah, I can see that. I for one hope Madison isn’t dead. So far this season is so damn good.

[MinionZombie]

You can just feel the difference compared to prior seasons. As a fan of Lost I don’t mind the flashbacks if done right and this episode proves it can work.

I won’t lie, I was prepared for Madison’s death at the end but switching it up and killing Nick was a real gut punch. Loved how they handled his death.

Fingers crossed for Madison, as I've said before she's as important to FearTWD as Rick Grimes is to TWD. She's our core character, our guide.

The kidnap theory makes sense.

I really don't like that little girl, haha. What is it with this world and young girls murderin' up a storm? :lol:

Moon - like you I'm a fan of Lost and the flashbacks/flash forwards/flash sideways were integral to that show's structure, but it also helped with the pacing as you had parallel stories running but they were in different locations and times so you rarely ever felt trapped in one place or time. Lost's only real pacing issues were in the first three seasons because they had too many damn episodes, so you did end up with some filler (e.g. the episode where some of the gang manage to kickstart an old VW van).

Anyway, back to FearTWD ... Dillane's performance in his death scene was excellent. Felt quite visceral and tangible - as if he really did had a bullet lodged in him and his body was shutting down - made the character's death all the more powerful. They squandered the character in season 3 (and made him make some very dodgy decisions at times), but at least they brought him back up to par for season 4.

[Moon Knight]

Nick’s character was kinda weakened once they had him leave his family behind. I kinda liked him in season 3 when they grounded him a bit. Always hated how he would just walk around with the walkers by just smearing a little blood on his face. Luci always did it too and now she doesn’t do it all. Little bit of a plot hole but I don’t care, I hated that. Glad they realized the mistake.

His acting was perfect in that end scene I agree. I actually got choked up a bit only because of the story they told prior in the episode. His scenes with Madison and Morgan were really strong.

I don’t care for the little girl either haha. You think his sister noticed who it was that shot him?

[MinionZombie]

4x04 "Buried"

Directed by: Magnus Martens
Written by: Alex Delyle


Al's questioning uncovers some surprising truths about the group's past; John Dorie receives unexpected news.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FTWD-404-01.jpg

Live viewing figures for FTWD 4x03 were 2.71 million.

[JDP]

Did my eyes deceive me or a couple of the zombies that Alicia and Naomi/Laura killed at the swimming pool just "disappear"??? I can't see their corpses anywhere when we see the from-above point of view of the pool. I thought about them maybe "sinking" out of view, but the water appears to have been transparent enough for the corpses to at least still be vaguely visible at the bottom.

[MinionZombie]

Did my eyes deceive me or a couple of the zombies that Alicia and Naomi/Laura killed at the swimming pool just "disappear"??? I can't see their corpses anywhere when we see the from-above point of view of the pool. I thought about them maybe "sinking" out of view, but the water appears to have been transparent enough for the corpses to at least still be vaguely visible at the bottom.

Check again - two walker bodies are floating to the left of frame as the gals climb up the slide with the surviving walkers clustered at the mouth of the slide.

[Moon Knight]

Check again - two walker bodies are floating to the left of frame as the gals climb up the slide with the surviving walkers clustered at the mouth of the slide.

Was about to post the same thing haha.

I really did like how they put this episode together.

[MinionZombie]

I am concerned by the sapping of tension from flashback scenes because we know the fate of a character/characters. We now know how Nick dies, so therefore we know he's not gonna die in any flashback scene. Similarly, it seems that Naomi is dead ... but I'm wondering if that's just what they think rather than what they know?

[JDP]

Check again - two walker bodies are floating to the left of frame as the gals climb up the slide with the surviving walkers clustered at the mouth of the slide.

They killed 3 zombies in the pool. I took a closer look and was able to spot one of the apparently "missing" ones: he is floating sideways right next to the more clearly visible one that is floating face-up. But where is the third one? If he sunk to the bottom we still should be able to see its silhouette since we can see some other objects at the bottom of the pool as well, the water is not dirty enough to avoid seeing objects at the bottom.

- - - Updated - - -


I am concerned by the sapping of tension from flashback scenes because we know the fate of a character/characters. We now know how Nick dies, so therefore we know he's not gonna die in any flashback scene. Similarly, it seems that Naomi is dead ... but I'm wondering if that's just what they think rather than what they know?

They also seem to be "forgetting" to let us know how exactly they got from that whole mess at the dam in Mexico to the baseball stadium in Texas. They seem to be concentrating on flashbacks regarding these "vulture" guys and their "siege" while not giving enough background info as to what happened before that.

[Moon Knight]

That’s because that story isn’t relevant with this current situation. They timed jumped over a year, no reason to bring up events that happened so long ago until the time is right. For me personally it gives me something to look forward to as I enjoy the current story.

[MinionZombie]

They killed 3 zombies in the pool. I took a closer look and was able to spot one of the apparently "missing" ones: he is floating sideways right next to the more clearly visible one that is floating face-up. But where is the third one? If he sunk to the bottom we still should be able to see its silhouette since we can see some other objects at the bottom of the pool as well, the water is not dirty enough to avoid seeing objects at the bottom.

In their reality the third walker corpse will be under the feet of the walkers as the third kill takes place very close to the mouth of the water slide, while the other two took place further away and (specifically in the case of the first kill) the body is tossed aside in the direction where the two floaters end up in the aerial shot. Or, it's floating, but kind of bunched up between the rabble of walkers and the wall of the pool (e.g. just beneath the lip of the water slide and hidden from view).

In our reality it'd be inadvisable to have a large obstruction beneath the feet of stunt performers in a body of water. Or perhaps they didn't have a third 'fake body' that was dressed-to-match lying around to bung in the pool.

[JDP]

That’s because that story isn’t relevant with this current situation. They timed jumped over a year, no reason to bring up events that happened so long ago until the time is right. For me personally it gives me something to look forward to as I enjoy the current story.

It should be relevant at this point how they got there in the first place. For example, it would clarify why Nick has acquired some sort of phobia for going "out there" and instead spends most of his time at the stadium, when previous to that he was quite daring and would not be afraid of venturing into the wastelands even all by himself. I don't see much point in telling that story later, after all is said and done that led to his death due to this "vulture" gang.

[Moon Knight]

It should be relevant at this point how they got there in the first place. For example, it would clarify why Nick has acquired some sort of phobia for going "out there" and instead spends most of his time at the stadium, when previous to that he was quite daring and would not be afraid of venturing into the wastelands even all by himself. I don't see much point in telling that story later, after all is said and done that led to his death due to this "vulture" gang.

They already told us why he stopped going out.

[MinionZombie]

They already told us why he stopped going out.

Aye, I recall in the episode in which the character dies he was talking about it - essentially coming down to what the world out there does to you, what you have to be in order to survive it etc. He much preferred being on the inside of the walls where he didn't need to do any of those things.

[Moon Knight]

Aye, I recall in the episode in which the character dies he was talking about it - essentially coming down to what the world out there does to you, what you have to be in order to survive it etc. He much preferred being on the inside of the walls where he didn't need to do any of those things.

Absolutely correct. Also, bro, you have the best profile picture selections lol.

[JDP]

They already told us why he stopped going out.

That was hardly an "explanation", specially not for such a character. We have seen him endure all sorts of dangers and hardships before, and that did not have some deep impact on him that would change his manner of being, he kept on going through dangerous situations nonetheless. So we must assume that something really different happened to him this time, after the whole dam incident, than just the "typical" dangers he has already faced numerous times and did not change his manner of being. So what was it? What turned this well-seasoned tough survivor into a sort of "wimp" who would rather not be "out there" anymore??? Needs explanation. A real one.

[Moon Knight]

That was hardly an "explanation", specially not for such a character. We have seen him endure all sorts of dangers and hardships before, and that did not have some deep impact on him that would change his manner of being, he kept on going through dangerous situations nonetheless. So we must assume that something really different happened to him this time, after the whole dam incident, than just the "typical" dangers he has already faced numerous times and did not change his manner of being. So what was it? What turned this well-seasoned tough survivor into a sort of "wimp" who would rather not be "out there" anymore??? Needs explanation. A real one.

It really doesn't. We don't have to see him developing a fear of the outside world when the narrative made it easy to understand by using Morgan and Madison to move that story line beat. They told us what was up with Nick and kept it moving.

[MinionZombie]

Absolutely correct. Also, bro, you have the best profile picture selections lol.

Thanks, bud. :kiss::o:D


It really doesn't. We don't have to see him developing a fear of the outside world when the narrative made it easy to understand by using Morgan and Madison to move that story line beat. They told us what was up with Nick and kept it moving.

I'm glad that we didn't have to sit through all of that, because we already know where it ends up, and we've seen various things throughout the first three seasons to know why Nick would develop to a point where he doesn't want to go outside the walls any more ... especially as we've seen what the outside world in the ZA does to various people across both shows. It'd end up being filler, to be honest - best to cut to the chase and the part that provided something a bit fresher to work with.

The then/now structure is helping to keep the overall pace up, but I'm still concerned about tension being sapped by us knowing what ultimately happens to someone now when we're seeing them then.

I notice that they're trying out new names in the director's and writer's chairs with this season to accompany some familiar names. Good to see, and it offers a 'training ground' opportunity to maybe bring the cream of the crop over to TWD.

Live airing figures were 2.49m, btw.

[Moon Knight]

I agree absolutely. That’s what I was trying to say. We always complain how TWD usually drags out storylines only for a shitty payoff like Aaron and Oceanside last season. Cut the fat, twice short twice strong.

I also agree on some of the tension being kinda watered down due to the structure but so far so good. It’s still early, let’s see how they do. Fingers crossed.

[JDP]

It really doesn't. We don't have to see him developing a fear of the outside world when the narrative made it easy to understand by using Morgan and Madison to move that story line beat. They told us what was up with Nick and kept it moving.

This was not some secondary character, where you can more easily brush aside any changes in his behavior. Plenty of time was invested in showing us what he is like. This guy was afraid of practically nothing and would do things that most of the other characters would not have the guts of doing. But now skip sometime after the dam incident, and we find a mysteriously "wimpified" version of the character with no satisfactory explanation at all as to what brought about this drastic change. His comments about what being "out there" does to you do not answer anything after we have seen him endure a bunch of heavy stuff without it having such a deep psychological impact on him as to drastically alter his character. So, yes, the story ideally requires an explanation here. This is no secondary character but one the major ones.

And BTW, I am hardly the only one who has noticed this thus-far lack of any true explanation for this character's mysterious radical change:

https://www.inquisitr.com/4874953/fear-the-walking-dead-season-4-why-is-nick-so-afraid-of-the-outside-world/

All we have so far are some vague "hints" that something disturbing happened to him. This should be clarified before going much further into the "vultures" story, otherwise it will reach a point where it won't matter much since the character is already dead.

[Moon Knight]

It was a small storyline thread that was introduced in one episode and concluded on the next one. What else do we need to know? Eh, I was satisfied.

There was a time skip. At least over a year. Plenty of time for character changes.

[JDP]

It was a small storyline thread that was introduced in one episode and concluded on the next one. What else do we need to know? Eh, I was satisfied.

There was a time skip. At least over a year. Plenty of time for character changes.

Where was it "concluded"? I saw no conclusive explanations anywhere about either why Nick went through such a radical change of character, or how did they get to the stadium, or how in blazes did they all survive that whole mess at the blown up dam, etc., in any of the episodes shown so far. Since these events involve the major characters in the series, some meaningful explanations should certainly be required.

[Moon Knight]

We’re only 4 in, relax lol. Unless you want them to blow by the story. And yes Nick’s story has been concluded to the point that we know why he didn’t like going outside the gates.

As far as what he did prior, I’ll say if the mid season finale comes and goes with zero information than that’s a problem. Until then, I’m enjoying the layers getting peeled back slowly.

Don’t expect anything tonight cause it looks like it’s our John backstory. I can see getting your complaint ready. Haha.

[MinionZombie]

4x05 "Laura"

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Anna Fishko


The arrival of a wounded visitor in John Dorie's life forces him to change his ways.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FTWD-405-03.jpg

[JDP]

We’re only 4 in, relax lol. Unless you want them to blow by the story. And yes Nick’s story has been concluded to the point that we know why he didn’t like going outside the gates.

As far as what he did prior, I’ll say if the mid season finale comes and goes with zero information than that’s a problem. Until then, I’m enjoying the layers getting peeled back slowly.

Don’t expect anything tonight cause it looks like it’s our John backstory. I can see getting your complaint ready. Haha.

I don't see where this "conclusion" was. All I saw were vague references to what happened to Nick, not actual explanations of what actually happened to him that left him with such deep psychological scars. I mean, this fearless character, who would even walk among the dead and keep his cool all the way through, now can't seem to even drive a car straight without freaking out, for crying out loud! This is a MAJOR change of this character's behavior. So, this part of the story seems to still be "hanging". My concern is that if they go too deep into the "vulture" gang story there will come a time when answers to these questions regarding the previous season's "cliffhanger" finale won't matter much anymore. We now know Nick is already dead, and no very meaningful explanations regarding what exactly happened to him to change his character so drastically have come forth yet. What are they waiting for? This season's finale???

[Moon Knight]

John Dorie pretty much just became my favorite character.

[MinionZombie]

Friggin' loved this episode!

My top 3 episodes are 1x01, 4x01, and now 4x05. Big fan of Dillahunt already, so I was primed and ready for this episode. Really dug it, great character stuff, loads of nice little details from his half-moat, to the boots on the porch, to movie night and so on. John Dorie has become an instant favourite character for me ... I hope that Laura/Naomi actually is alive and Alicia & Co just think she's dead. I wanna see John and "Laura" meet again.

The machete shoulder walker was pretty damn sweet, too - and Laura/Naomi berating him for getting so much blood on the pair of them was a nice touch. It's a shame they didn't think about this stuff all the way back in TWD 1x02 or, at the very least, the next time they did that trick on TWD, but it's fair to say that FearTWD was the big culprit for overusing that gimmick. It's kinda sloppy how it's played out, but at least they're rectifying it now by adding an element of danger to getting zombie gunk on you. :)

I was trying to read Dorie's handwriting on the movie rental clipboard, but couldn't make it out. Anyone know what films he was watching?

Oh yeah - what did Laura/Naomi say to John at one point? She lost her what? Did she say child, or something? I couldn't make out what she said.

[Moon Knight]

Friggin' loved this episode!

My top 3 episodes are 1x01, 4x01, and now 4x05. Big fan of Dillahunt already, so I was primed and ready for this episode. Really dug it, great character stuff, loads of nice little details from his half-moat, to the boots on the porch, to movie night and so on. John Dorie has become an instant favourite character for me ... I hope that Laura/Naomi actually is alive and Alicia & Co just think she's dead. I wanna see John and "Laura" meet again.

The machete shoulder walker was pretty damn sweet, too - and Laura/Naomi berating him for getting so much blood on the pair of them was a nice touch. It's a shame they didn't think about this stuff all the way back in TWD 1x02 or, at the very least, the next time they did that trick on TWD, but it's fair to say that FearTWD was the big culprit for overusing that gimmick. It's kinda sloppy how it's played out, but at least they're rectifying it now by adding an element of danger to getting zombie gunk on you. :)

I was trying to read Dorie's handwriting on the movie rental clipboard, but couldn't make it out. Anyone know what films he was watching?

Oh yeah - what did Laura/Naomi say to John at one point? She lost her what? Did she say child, or something? I couldn't make out what she said.

I feel the same way! This is the kind of character stuff I love. So many little details in this episode that makes it so good. Makes you feel really sad for John and definitely makes you root for him.

Naomi did say she lost her child. Loved how they revealed that.

I tried looking at the movies but spent too much type analyizing his handwriting haha.

[JDP]

Why did that bunch of zombies attack the jeep blocking the damaged side of the bridge for no apparent reason at all? There was nobody inside it, except that dead machete-zombie, and, as far as I can tell, John & Laura/Naomi did not leave any music or the engine on, so why would the zombies attack a parked vehicle at random??? They are attracted by things like noise, fire/lights or movement, and, as far as I can tell, there seems to have been none coming from the parked jeep.

[Moon Knight]

Why did that bunch of zombies attack the jeep blocking the damaged side of the bridge for no apparent reason at all? There was nobody inside it, except that dead machete-zombie, and, as far as I can tell, John & Laura/Naomi did not leave any music or the engine on, so why would the zombies attack a parked vehicle at random??? They are attracted by things like noise, fire/lights or movement, and, as far as I can tell, there seems to have been none coming from the parked jeep.

Remember the car stuck in the river? There is a walker inside banging on the windows.

[MinionZombie]

Remember the car stuck in the river? There is a walker inside banging on the windows.

Plus they caused quite a commotion when dealing with the machete walker. While we didn't see any other walkers close by (to my recollection), I'd also reckon that some walkers were drawn to the spot of said commotion - the walkers themselves create a kerfuffle, so more walkers join the party.

Not the tidiest of ways to cover it on-camera, but yeah.

[JDP]

Plus they caused quite a commotion when dealing with the machete walker. While we didn't see any other walkers close by (to my recollection), I'd also reckon that some walkers were drawn to the spot of said commotion - the walkers themselves create a kerfuffle, so more walkers join the party.

Not the tidiest of ways to cover it on-camera, but yeah.

That couldn't be it, they killed all the zombies nearby, plus any of them that might still have been there would have followed John & Laura/Naomi when they left, they would not have fixated their attention on the empty, quiet jeep. The only explanation seems to be that they can somehow hear the zombie trapped in the car down in the river.

[MinionZombie]

Live airing figures: 2.46 million - so they're finding a steadier number now (last week was 2.49m).

[Moon Knight]

Live airing figures: 2.46 million - so they're finding a steadier number now (last week was 2.49m).

I’m seeing better reviews so far compared to prior seasons. People seem to be enjoying S4, sucks so many won’t watch simply because it’s FTWD.

[MinionZombie]

4x06 "Just in Case"

Directed by: Daisy von Scherler Mayer
Written by: Richard Naing


Strand wrestles with Madison's decisions; things take an unexpected turn at the Stadium.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FTWD-306-01.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


I’m seeing better reviews so far compared to prior seasons. People seem to be enjoying S4, sucks so many won’t watch simply because it’s FTWD.

Aye, season 4 is shitting all over the previous three seasons. It's still not as good as TWD, but I wasn't expecting it to be.

At the end of season 3 I was ready to pack-in FearTWD, and I only gave season 4 a shot because of the various tweaks - new showrunner, time jump, new characters, and even with my split feelings about taking Morgan from TWD and porting him over, that did intrigue me an equal amount. They nailed the first episode and they've done a lot to strip away some of the bullshit that was swallowing up the show in the previous seasons. They could still do with trimming the episode count down to, say, 12 (six and six), but they've made big steps forward with the show and it does deserve to win back some viewers at this point.

Perhaps AMC should put all of Season 4a on telly for a binge weekend afterwards so people can catch up, and do the same again prior to Season 4b getting going.

[Moon Knight]

TWD lately for me has been too formulaic for my tastes. What I love about Fear is that so far all four seasons felt different and don’t follow the same tent pole structure that Gimple has plagued TWD with. Example- Big Premier- nothing happens till mid season finale- cliff hanger- big premier- filler again- Big Finale. That got old after season five. I have hope Angela Kang will break that formula!

[JDP]

TWD lately for me has been too formulaic for my tastes. What I love about Fear is that so far all four seasons felt different and don’t follow the same tent pole structure that Gimple has plagued TWD with. Example- Big Premier- nothing happens till mid season finale- cliff hanger- big premier- filler again- Big Finale. That got old after season five. I have hope Angela Kang will break that formula!

FTWD is unfortunately still using some cliches as well, like the "paralyzed by fear/shock" syndrome so common in zombie movies (think graveyard scene in Fulci's Zombie, for example.) But at least in most zombie movies it has a passing because they usually happen during a time when the zombies are a surprise to virtually everyone, so one might understand why some people would not know how to react when coming face to face with a zombie. But FTWD is now happening quite into a zombie apocalypse. The zombies are no longer any "surprise" or "novelty". So late into this mess it is difficult to swallow that any survivor will act in the "shocked" manner that Laura/Naomi did in this latest episode when confronted by the zombies, personal emotions notwithstanding, and which nearly got her killed. By this time, basically no survivor ignores that the zombies are not the human beings they were before but cannibalistic monsters that will not respond to such concepts as being "family" or "friends" and will try to kill & eat anyone alive who crosses their path.

[Moon Knight]

FTWD is unfortunately still using some cliches as well, like the "paralyzed by fear/shock" syndrome so common in zombie movies (think graveyard scene in Fulci's Zombie, for example.) But at least in most zombie movies it has a passing because they usually happen during a time when the zombies are a surprise to virtually everyone, so one might understand why some people would not know how to react when coming face to face with a zombie. But FTWD is now happening quite into a zombie apocalypse. The zombies are no longer any "surprise" or "novelty". So late into this mess it is difficult to swallow that any survivor will act in the "shocked" manner that Laura/Naomi did in this latest episode when confronted by the zombies, personal emotions notwithstanding, and which nearly got her killed. By this time, basically no survivor ignores that the zombies are not the human beings they were before but cannibalistic monsters that will not respond to such concepts as being "family" or "friends" and will try to kill & eat anyone alive who crosses their path.

Every show has its cliches. Same with movies. That’s just Hollywood. But an entire season structure that always follows from A to Z consistently for years doesn’t have an excuse. That’s not even including the cheap gimmicks. Mind you, most of those gimmicks I’m sure is AMC mucking with things.

As far as Naomi, yeah, I can see the absurdity in that but no individual will handle certain situations the same; especially when it involves a deceased child. None of us here would ever know how another feels.

[MinionZombie]

I'd say there's a difference between a 'general apocalypse situation' and a scenario that involves a character's own torturous story (i.e with Naomi's backstory - not only the loss of her child, but that she hid the sick child, took too long to get the meds, then came back and - through her actions - caused the death and zombification of an entire FEMA camp). Faced with the toll of your bugger up, something which she's been running from for quite a while, would likely cause a breakdown. Indeed, in that moment, she might just want to shut down entirely and give up.

You make a fair point about the structure of TWD relying too much on premieres and finales, Gimple did get sucked into that cycle too much, but it's not fair to say that everything inbetween is just filler. You surely do have some 'filler' episodes (I'd advocate a trimming down to 12 episodes for FearTWD and TWD), but there are superb episodes dotted throughout the season ... but, yes, the middle episodes all feel to march to the beat of the premieres and finales. Now - remember episode 3x04 - that came out of nowhere and is one of the greatest ever episodes. Throwing a grenade like that into the storytelling throws the viewers off-balance and you start not knowing what to expect. If you know the big shit is, likely, only going to go down in the 'firsts and lasts', then suspense wanes. In fact, it'd make sense to throw unexpected curveballs into 'middle episodes' because people might be less likely to 'just watch it later' during those middle six weeks. So, aye, Angela Kang - get that on the 'To Do List' of things to sort out, please. :)

Anyway - back to FearTWD - I really hope they don't kill off John Dorie. He's the best damn thing to hit this show since, well, ever IMHO.

[Moon Knight]

A good example is Noami’s fate revealed six episodes in instead of being saved for the mid season finale. That’s something I hope Kang really fixes like I said before. There has to be payoff’s during the entire season not just the premiers/finales.

[MinionZombie]

A good example is Noami’s fate revealed six episodes in instead of being saved for the mid season finale. That’s something I hope Kang really fixes like I said before. There has to be payoff’s during the entire season not just the premiers/finales.

lol, I'd kind of forgotten that she was "dead", and always kind of believed that she'd turn up alive, so when she did I didn't have any surprise in it at all :lol::lol::lol: ... but I'm glad she's alive (HOPEFULLY DORIE SURVIVES TOO, DAGNAMMIT!)

So was Naomi part of the vultures at some point in the past (one of the camps she mentioned in previous episodes) and kept shtum, or actually more what I'm assuming, did she join them after The Diamond went under? I guess we'll see next week.

Yeah, it's good to get some twists and turns spread out. TWD isn't without sudden sharp turns - remember the invasion of the Wolves in Season 6? Carol watching the neighbour having a crafty ciggie and then BAM, a maniac storms in out of nowhere and chaos ensues, or 6x03 (IIRC) with the shock dumpster alleyway scene (although the red herring was too manipulative, I did still enjoy it) ... but TWD has too often relied upon a storytelling structure that needed to be kept more loose and adaptable, rather than becoming entrenched. It worked really well for seasons 4 and 5 - and, arguably, 6 - but the pattern became much more predictable in Season 7. Then Season 8 ramped up the action, but there's more to "pacing" than just action, you've also got to think about the rate at which events are progressing in the storylines, the rate at which time is passing in their world compared to our world.

Fingers crossed that Kang sorts these kinds of things out and freshens everything up nicely - it's worked a treat for FearTWD. At the end of Season 3 I was ready to ditch it, now I'm looking forward to the next episode!

[Moon Knight]

Haha yeah I love “JSS” except for the cold open.

I’m thinking she joined them after. I remember Mel giving them the Ultimatum of give them their stuff and they live and can even join them. In this past episode’s “Previously on Fear The Walking Dead”, they showed that exact same scene with Madison and Mel again so I knew it would come into play somehow, that’s how these shows work. They kind of give away a lot of stuff by remninding us of prior events.

[MinionZombie]

Haha yeah I love “JSS” except for the cold open.

I’m thinking she joined them after. I remember Mel giving them the Ultimatum of give them their stuff and they live and can even join them. In this past episode’s “Previously on Fear The Walking Dead”, they showed that exact same scene with Madison and Mel again so I knew it would come into play somehow, that’s how these shows work. They kind of give away a lot of stuff by remninding us of prior events.

But at the same time some of those 'previously on' can be quite helpful to refresh the memory for pertinent details that explain why something happens later on. Double-edged sword. It's a tightrope to walk with those, but I have seen some that have been so friggin' blunt on various shows. :lol:

[Moon Knight]

I remember we haven’t seen Jadis in a while and then she was shown on the recap clip so I knew she would be revealed that episode. Those are the ones I hate the most. Eugene’s bullet sabotage too.

[JDP]

I remember we haven’t seen Jadis in a while and then she was shown on the recap clip so I knew she would be revealed that episode. Those are the ones I hate the most. Eugene’s bullet sabotage too.

The "sneak peeks" at a future episode also sometimes can ruin a "surprise".

[Moon Knight]

The "sneak peeks" at a future episode also sometimes can ruin a "surprise".

Yeah, I try to avoid previews for everything now. Way too much shown.

[MinionZombie]

2.31m for the live viewing figures this time around.

[Moon Knight]

No episode this week. Guess I can catch up on Westworld.

[MinionZombie]

Why the week off? Is there some sporting event over in the USA or something?

[JDP]

Why the week off? Is there some sporting event over in the USA or something?

Zombies also celebrate Memorial Day.

[MinionZombie]

Zombies also celebrate Memorial Day.

Ah, that makes sense. Beyond Thanksgiving and July 4th we don't really know your holidays over on this side of the pond, even our Mother's Day dates are different (ours is in March).

[MinionZombie]

4x07 "The Wrong Side of Where You Are Now"

Directed by: Sarah Boyd
Written by: Melissa Scrivner Love


Strand wrestles with Madison's decisions; things take an unexpected turn at the Stadium.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FTWD-307-01.jpg

[Buzzbomb]

Didn't think too much of this episode... but overall the series so far has been quite good.

Hope that Madison's fate is revealed soon!

Main reason this episode seemed weak was:

a) the stand-off with guns pointed at near point blank range, yet no one got hit & by the next shot they'd all found vehicles to hide behind
b) some cringe-worthy dialogue from Nick's character
c) the argument between the two vulture brothers could have been made clearer, especially as it was crucial to the plot.

Alycia's character also seems out of... 'character', although it makes a change to see one of the main players turning into one of the bad guys. She should have shot at the tires of the SWAT truck though.

[MinionZombie]

All good points Buzzbomb.

This one was a bit of a filler episode, circling the landing zone that should come with 4x08. Some good moments in there (the baseball field of burned walkers), but felt too slow for this point in the season for the majority until things heated up later on ... although, sure, there was a gun fight at the beginning to be fair, but I did find the bulletproof nature of the vehicles a bit distracting. Indeed, I also spent a lot of that sequence cursing Alicia for shooting John, so... :D

Wouldn't the tyres on the SWAT vehicle be special tyres though? Not bulletproof or something, heh, but a special kind that would make the vehicle less vulnerable?

[Moon Knight]

It was a filler episode but I think it built up the tension quite nicely leading up to the finale.

One thing it also accomplished was giving us a bit more meat to Melvin’s character. He’s not a one dimensional villain. He actually showed he cared about Charlie and Charlie cared for him. Something small but I really liked that.

Agreed on the opening gunfight. So frustrating.

[MinionZombie]

One thing it also accomplished was giving us a bit more meat to Melvin’s character. He’s not a one dimensional villain. He actually showed he cared about Charlie and Charlie cared for him. Something small but I really liked that.

Oh aye, yeah, I liked that aspect. Made him a bit more complex and three-dimensional, albeit late in the day of his character's time on the show. Likewise Charlie getting taken under Morgan's wing ... she's got plenty to feel guilty about, having been kind of manipulated.

[Moon Knight]

Oh aye, yeah, I liked that aspect. Made him a bit more complex and three-dimensional, albeit late in the day of his character's time on the show. Likewise Charlie getting taken under Morgan's wing ... she's got plenty to feel guilty about, having been kind of manipulated.

Also, now we found out it was definitely Enis who was the vengeful Vulture and not Melvin initially. Didn’t think about the Charlie and Morgan dynamic; pretty cool.

[JDP]

Also, now we found out it was definitely Enis who was the vengeful Vulture and not Melvin initially. Didn’t think about the Charlie and Morgan dynamic; pretty cool.

Come on, let's be 100% honest: realistically-speaking, Luciana would have shot Charlie on the spot, no hesitations. So would Alicia. They got plenty of reasons to want her dead, kid or no kid.

[MinionZombie]

4x08 "No One's Gone"

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Ian B. Goldberg & Andrew Chambliss

...
...
...

Live figures for episode 4x07 were 1.97m - the lowest ever such rating for an episode of FearTWD (the previous low was in season 3 with 1.99m). The week off probably didn't help.

...

As for Luciana vs Charlie - regardless of what Charlie has done (killing Nick), Luciana was still faced with the very real reality of pointing a live, ready-to-fire weapon at the face of a child who is looking her right in the eye with terror. She's been through a lot, but she won't have killed a child point blank (or at all, most likely) in the ZA world. That's a whole other ball game right there. Charlie would deserve a death by vengeance for what she did to Nick, but also bear in mind that was after Nick killed her protector, so swings and roundabouts really. Even in the ZA there would be lines that people would refuse to cross.

[JDP]

4x08 "No One's Gone"

Directed by: TBA
Written by: TBA

...
...
...

Live figures for episode 4x07 were 1.97m - the lowest ever such rating for an episode of FearTWD (the previous low was in season 3 with 1.99m). The week off probably didn't help.

...

As for Luciana vs Charlie - regardless of what Charlie has done (killing Nick), Luciana was still faced with the very real reality of pointing a live, ready-to-fire weapon at the face of a child who is looking her right in the eye with terror. She's been through a lot, but she won't have killed a child point blank (or at all, most likely) in the ZA world. That's a whole other ball game right there. Charlie would deserve a death by vengeance for what she did to Nick, but also bear in mind that was after Nick killed her protector, so swings and roundabouts really. Even in the ZA there would be lines that people would refuse to cross.

We have seen an example of a kid getting executed in cold blood in this ruthless WD universe for quite less. Not only did Charlie kill Nick, but she also is directly and fully-intentionally involved in the chain of events that finally led to the stadium's demise. She should never have been trusted again after what she had already pulled. There's no way that in real-life Luciana or Alicia would have hesitated to kill this dangerous trouble-making brat who has caused so much damage already. Don't let the child appearance and the "I'm sorries!" fool you. This is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Moon Knight]

We have seen an example of a kid getting executed in cold blood in this ruthless WD universe for quite less. Not only did Charlie kill Nick, but she also is directly and fully-intentionally involved in the chain of events that finally led to the stadium's demise. She should never have been trusted again after what she had already pulled. There's no way that in real-life Luciana or Alicia would have hesitated to kill this dangerous trouble-making brat who has caused so much damage already. Don't let the child appearance and the "I'm sorries!" fool you. This is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Oh you mean Lizzie the mentally unstable girl who just killed her own sister so she could live forever as a walker? Also the same girl who killed animals for fun and was about to do harm to Judith? Yeah, quite less.

[JDP]

Oh you mean Lizzie the mentally unstable girl who just killed her own sister so she could live forever as a walker? Also the same girl who killed animals for fun and was about to do harm to Judith? Yeah, quite less.

You mean Charlie, the sane girl who infiltrated the stadium to spy and help undermine their efforts and then later on shot Nick, all of it 100% conscious of what she was doing to these people. Yeah, you bet it was quite less severe than what Charlie did.

[MinionZombie]

Well, there goes another O.G. cast member, and a strong character to boot. At least the way in which they dispatcher Madison was pretty stylish.

The roasted walkers were pretty cool.

This half-season definitely has been a big improvement over the last couple of seasons, but it still got skewered by filler because of, quite simply, too many damn episodes. Cut it back to 12 or preferably 10, AMC.

Speaking of which, they jacked up Preacher season 2 to 13 episodes and it really showed. Filler friggin' everywhere. For season 3 they've gone back to 10 episodes. Thank fudge for that!

...

As for Charlie - her motivations were very different to Lizzie. She only killed Nick because Nick killed her protector, and she almost instantly regretted it. Essentially, she's only up to the level of what our protagonists are capable of. Lizzie, on the other hand, is full blown crazy.

Carol's reason for executing Lizzie was necessitated because you can't go on living with a nutter like that nearby, especially not when she's already killed her own sister and was about to do the same thing to an infant. The execution was, essentially, carried out for humane reasons - and the sheer horror of the act was written all over Carol's face (one of the very best episodes of TWD ever, such a powerful moment).

Indeed, the sheer awfulness of killing a child - even in the ZA - was writ large. Despite what Charlie had done to Nick (because Nick killed someone important to her), Luciana was still faced with the very real and immediate possibility of murdering a child. I don't care how far into a ZA you are, but some lines can't be crossed by some people. If Luciana had killed Charlie it would have been out of pure revenge, and I don't think that'd be good for the audience (they'd lose respect for the character) and it'd ultimately doom her. Carol killing Lizzie was an entirely different scenario, with Carol backed into a corner and the only humane thing to do was what she did - it was a selfless act, essentially.

While Charlie has done bad things, they've all done bad things. We're on the side of Madison & Co because that's who we've followed. Now, much like The Saviours, the methods of the villains in season 4a wouldn't really fly for protagonists. Until Alicia turned back from the brink in this episode, I'd turned on her because she shot John ... you can only allow your heroes to go so far and only for certain reasons, otherwise they become villains themselves.

[JDP]

Well, there goes another O.G. cast member, and a strong character to boot. At least the way in which they dispatcher Madison was pretty stylish.

The roasted walkers were pretty cool.

This half-season definitely has been a big improvement over the last couple of seasons, but it still got skewered by filler because of, quite simply, too many damn episodes. Cut it back to 12 or preferably 10, AMC.

Speaking of which, they jacked up Preacher season 2 to 13 episodes and it really showed. Filler friggin' everywhere. For season 3 they've gone back to 10 episodes. Thank fudge for that!

...

As for Charlie - her motivations were very different to Lizzie. She only killed Nick because Nick killed her protector, and she almost instantly regretted it. Essentially, she's only up to the level of what our protagonists are capable of. Lizzie, on the other hand, is full blown crazy.

Carol's reason for executing Lizzie was necessitated because you can't go on living with a nutter like that nearby, especially not when she's already killed her own sister and was about to do the same thing to an infant. The execution was, essentially, carried out for humane reasons - and the sheer horror of the act was written all over Carol's face (one of the very best episodes of TWD ever, such a powerful moment).

Indeed, the sheer awfulness of killing a child - even in the ZA - was writ large. Despite what Charlie had done to Nick (because Nick killed someone important to her), Luciana was still faced with the very real and immediate possibility of murdering a child. I don't care how far into a ZA you are, but some lines can't be crossed by some people. If Luciana had killed Charlie it would have been out of pure revenge, and I don't think that'd be good for the audience (they'd lose respect for the character) and it'd ultimately doom her. Carol killing Lizzie was an entirely different scenario, with Carol backed into a corner and the only humane thing to do was what she did - it was a selfless act, essentially.

While Charlie has done bad things, they've all done bad things. We're on the side of Madison & Co because that's who we've followed. Now, much like The Saviours, the methods of the villains in season 4a wouldn't really fly for protagonists. Until Alicia turned back from the brink in this episode, I'd turned on her because she shot John ... you can only allow your heroes to go so far and only for certain reasons, otherwise they become villains themselves.

This is hardly convincing at all. Madison & company were minding their own business and not bothering anyone. On the contrary, they even kindly took new people in and made them part of the group. Madison even went out of her way to kindly invite these "vultures" in. It is very clear who the "good guys" are here. There are no "blurry" lines. It was Charlie and her parasitic "vulture" cronies, though, who maliciously and with full intent interfered with their lives and ended up ruining things for everyone, leading to the death of a bunch of people, including Nick and Madison. Comparing this to what a mentally unstable girl did is hardly fair. Charlie fully deserves to die, alongside all her "vulture" pals. Lizzie deserved to be interned in a psychiatric ward (but unfortunately there were none around, so she got executed instead.)

[Moon Knight]

You mean Charlie, the sane girl who infiltrated the stadium to spy and help undermine their efforts and then later on shot Nick, all of it 100% conscious of what she was doing to these people. Yeah, you bet it was quite less severe than what Charlie did.

Charlie isn’t a deranged killer and last I checked it’s the zombie apocalypse, everyone has blood on their hands.

[JDP]

Charlie isn’t a deranged killer and last I checked it’s the zombie apocalypse, everyone has blood on their hands.

Lizzie was just crazy and out of touch with reality, but Charlie did what she did perfectly conscious of what she was doing. The blood she has on her hands is the result of malicious intent. The entire "vulture" gang deserves to die, including Charlie. It wasn't Nick who unleashed an army of zombies on other people, resulting in a bunch of deaths and destruction. Nick killed that "vulture" guy because he totally deserved it. Charlie killed Nick because... that's how spiteful she is. She knows well that what that pal of hers did was wholesale murder, and thus deserved to pay for it. Nick is the "good guy" here, not that psycho, who totally had it coming.

[Moon Knight]

Lizzie was just crazy and out of touch with reality, but Charlie did what she did perfectly conscious of what she was doing. The blood she has on her hands is the result of malicious intent. The entire "vulture" gang deserves to die, including Charlie. It wasn't Nick who unleashed an army of zombies on other people, resulting in a bunch of deaths and destruction. Nick killed that "vulture" guy because he totally deserved it. Charlie killed Nick because... that's how spiteful she is. She knows well that what that pal of hers did was wholesale murder, and thus deserved to pay for it. Nick is the "good guy" here, not that psycho, who totally had it coming.

Bro, go back and watch it again. You purposely trolling or what?

You can see it in her eyes she regretted what she did the moment she pulled the trigger. She didn’t try hurting ANYONE since that. Don’t know how you see her as this vengeful demon.

[JDP]

Bro, go back and watch it again. You purposely trolling or what?

You can see it in her eyes she regretted what she did the moment she pulled the trigger. She didn’t try hurting ANYONE since that. Don’t know how you see her as this vengeful demon.

Really? She ran away pretty fast right after shooting him. Didn't stick around to express her supposed remorse, and actually went back to her "vulture" peeps, as per usual. And this after all the other damage and deaths they had already caused. She only came up with the usual "I am sorries!" when she had a gun pointing at her while her peeps were getting hunted & shot down (and justly so.) This character does not elicit any sympathies after all the rotten things she's done. I've already seen many a FTWD fan screaming for her blood. I can't blame them one bit. Totally deserves to die, kid or no kid.

[MinionZombie]

Well it's all a moot point as Luciana didn't pull the trigger - Luciana recognised that she was on the precipice of crossing a very particular line, and she chose not to cross it despite the grievance committed against her. Luciana did not want to murder a child. Gee, I guess some old world habits stick around, huh? :lol:

Charlie has also been manipulated by the vultures in certain ways, ideologically, but at the same time they've also not been physically abusive to her (she wasn't used by them in that horrible way, for example, but protected even when she went along with Madison & Co - but, indeed, her position as a child carries weight and it was a safe bet to put her in as a double agent). Charlie could have ended up in extremely dire straights in the ZA, but the vultures took her in and gave her a home - despite their own particular and screwed up ideology. Indeed, they seem to be far less evil than The Saviours, for instance, whose movers and shakers from grunts to lieutenants to Negan himself delight in the infliction of pain and suffering (remember the photos of Negan's handy works with Lucille that one guy took). The Vultures, on the other hand, seem split - the main protector of Charlie didn't want to unleash the walkers on the Diamond, so even amongst their ranks there is split leadership.

So, when Charlie sees her protector murdered by Nick, she lashes out almost instantly and, in-turn, immediately regrets her decision and flees in terror. She's riven with guilt at this point and will never be able to make amends for her mistake. FearTWD is presenting a more complex story than 'an eye for an eye' ... we've had plenty of that.

[JDP]

Well it's all a moot point as Luciana didn't pull the trigger - Luciana recognised that she was on the precipice of crossing a very particular line, and she chose not to cross it despite the grievance committed against her. Luciana did not want to murder a child. Gee, I guess some old world habits stick around, huh? :lol:

Charlie has also been manipulated by the vultures in certain ways, ideologically, but at the same time they've also not been physically abusive to her (she wasn't used by them in that horrible way, for example, but protected even when she went along with Madison & Co - but, indeed, her position as a child carries weight and it was a safe bet to put her in as a double agent). Charlie could have ended up in extremely dire straights in the ZA, but the vultures took her in and gave her a home - despite their own particular and screwed up ideology. Indeed, they seem to be far less evil than The Saviours, for instance, whose movers and shakers from grunts to lieutenants to Negan himself delight in the infliction of pain and suffering (remember the photos of Negan's handy works with Lucille that one guy took). The Vultures, on the other hand, seem split - the main protector of Charlie didn't want to unleash the walkers on the Diamond, so even amongst their ranks there is split leadership.

So, when Charlie sees her protector murdered by Nick, she lashes out almost instantly and, in-turn, immediately regrets her decision and flees in terror. She's riven with guilt at this point and will never be able to make amends for her mistake. FearTWD is presenting a more complex story than 'an eye for an eye' ... we've had plenty of that.

Not buying it. Her actions speak very loudly and clearly. Anyone who can't see why that "vulture" guy fully deserved to die is either insane or has a totally screwed up sense of "right & wrong". Let me repeat: the guy unleashed a friggin' army of zombies on an entire group of people, and to top it off also set them on fire... you know, to make even more sure that they would cause death & destruction galore. Now, Charlie is not crazy, but she is obviously devious and deceitful, that's why she keeps sticking with this cutthroat gang. She knows that what she and her "vulture" pals have been doing is rotten stuff. She knows well why Nick killed that bastard. There are no valid excuses here. Charlie deserves to be shot on sight, just like the rest of her gang.

[MinionZombie]

IIRC the one who unleashed the walker herd on the Diamond wasn't the same man who was Charlie's protector, Charlie's protector was the softer one of the two brothers. The one who unleashed the walkers was the harder, meaner one of the brothers. Indeed, Charlie's protector (I keep forgetting his name - anyone remember?) warned Madison to flee. Clearly, to him, unleashing a load of walkers was not a method he personally approved of but, as part of that group along with his more extreme brother, he found himself compromised by association.

Seemed there was a schism in their group - one man who just waited for the inevitable and picked over the leftovers, and another one who was more pro-active. I'd imagine Charlie was somewhat torn between the two, but the better of the two was the one who took her more under his wing.

What the vultures do/did is still wrong, but it's not simple black hat/white hat stuff going on in the TWD universe. Never has been, never will be. There's still a better side to be on (e.g. Team Rick over The Saviours), but you don't have moustache twirling villains tying damsels to railroads. Everyone's got a perspective, even if some groups are more predatory in their actions, but as we've seen in this half-season even our 'good guys' have done bad things or gone charging towards villainous territory (Alicia in particular).

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, I’m sure she wanted to stick around and tell his sister and girlfriend she’s sorry. Mel took her in and cared for her during this rather difficult time when the dead are eating people. I’m sure that has a little something to do with her loyalty to the Vultures.

Let’s not forget what Rick and crew did to the Saviors in their sleep. Compare that to Charlie spying on Madison’s group.

I’m convinced JD just likes f*cking with people here haha.

[JDP]

Yeah, I’m sure she wanted to stick around and tell his sister and girlfriend she’s sorry. Mel took her in and cared for her during this rather difficult time when the dead are eating people. I’m sure that has a little something to do with her loyalty to the Vultures.

Let’s not forget what Rick and crew did to the Saviors in their sleep. Compare that to Charlie spying on Madison’s group.

I’m convinced JD just likes f*cking with people here haha.

The fact that she ran away and did not face the consequences is already telling. If she was really sorry for what she did, she would have stayed and faced the consequences of her actions. But no, she ran right back to her gang, where she knows she was safe and would not have to answer for what she did.

The fact that this "vulture" gang was nice to her does not excuse the fact that she has been engaging in the rotten business they do. She is fully aware that what they do is bad and has grave effects on others.

Rick & company decided to take out the Saviors because those guys were bullying and forcing the Hilltop into submission. It was pretty clear that these Saviors were not "nice guys" at all even then! Plus technically-speaking, the war was started by the Saviors. Remember the road incident with the water truck? Abraham almost got executed in cold blood by the Savior bikers. If it wasn't for Daryl's opportune intervention, Abraham would have died that day. So it was them who really started the war.

[facestabber]

Well hell. With this much back and forth I will have to give fear another try. Think I saw 2 or 3 episodes of season 2.

[bassman]

Well hell. With this much back and forth I will have to give fear another try. Think I saw 2 or 3 episodes of season 2.

Ha, that’s exactly where I gave up on the show, as well. Like you, having heard so much about it and that it also improves as it progresses, I too am going to have to give it another try. I’ve seen recently that Hulu has the series for free, so with all these signs building up, I suppose it’s time for me to try again....

[MinionZombie]

If you packed it in during season 2 then don't bother with season 3, because that was just as naff ... season 4a, on the other hand, is a big improvement. So just hop back on with 4x01, I'd say.

Now, 4a certainly isn't without fault (our old friend filler returns, simply because 16 episodes a season is too many), but even still, 4a does a yeti-sized dump all over the previous couple of seasons. :elol:

[bassman]

Wouldn’t skipping Season Three leave us in the dark as to who’s there, who’s gone, where the group is living, etc? Or is it really that bad that it can be skipped with no issue?

[MinionZombie]

Wouldn’t skipping Season Three leave us in the dark as to who’s there, who’s gone, where the group is living, etc? Or is it really that bad that it can be skipped with no issue?

Well ... I suppose you'd miss out on certain events, the odd death or whatever and the intro of Luciana, but season 3 is chock full'o filler as well, and Season 4a has a big time jump after the climax of Season 3, which is only referenced, like, once.

By all means, watch the episodes you've not seen, but I will warn you that it might be a slog. I was ready to pack in FearTWD after season three (I kept watching in the hope it'd get better, but it was only doing the bare minimum). It was only the big changes for Season 4a - new showrunner, a time jump, Morgan heading over from TWD, new characters - that made me give it another shot.

But, if anyone is of the mindset that they'd rather not watch seasons 2 and 3, or just skim them (or even just read the synopsis on Wiki) - because they're not that fussed about FearTWD - then you could jump straight to Season 4a and ride out the odd curiosity.

To each their own. As a completist I understand the need to see all the episodes, especially with narrative drama such as this ... although, for me, season 3 was a bit of a chore.

[Moon Knight]

Season 3 is better than season 2 and 4 is so far the best in the series. My opinion of course.

What the new showrunners did really well was introduce 3 good characters and Morgan’s involvement has worked because he’s been used to push other characters stories along while not making it all about him.

[MinionZombie]

Season 3 is better than season 2 and 4 is so far the best in the series. My opinion of course.

What the new showrunners did really well was introduce 3 good characters and Morgan’s involvement has worked because he’s been used to push other characters stories along while not making it all about him.

Agreed. Well, with the second paragraph anyway. I don't know if I'd say season 3 was any better than season 2, IMHO.

[Moon Knight]

Agreed. Well, with the second paragraph anyway. I don't know if I'd say season 3 was any better than season 2, IMHO.

I guess I was more in favor of it because I really liked Troy and Walker as characters.

Not a fan of Luciana so season 2 and that whole Colonia storyline was very unappealing to me and really hurt Nick in the process.

[MinionZombie]

I guess I was more in favor of it because I really liked Troy and Walker as characters.

Not a fan of Luciana so season 2 and that whole Colonia storyline was very unappealing to me and really hurt Nick in the process.

I quite like Luciana, although wasn't much into Colonia either ... and I was fed up with Troy and Walker and all that lot very quickly, almost immediately in fact. :lol:

[Moon Knight]

I quite like Luciana, although wasn't much into Colonia either ... and I was fed up with Troy and Walker and all that lot very quickly, almost immediately in fact. :lol:

Troy was a loose canon and kinda unpredictable, at least that how it can off to me. I actually felt a bit of sympathy for him. Walker just didn’t feel like any character that came before. He wasn’t a villain yet wasn’t the good guy either. He’s just doing his thing. I dug that. I can see why you didn’t like S3 though. It did carry a lot of problems in writing.

As far as filler goes, I’ll take Fear’s S4 filler over the TWD’s current filler and just spending mundane time in a particular area with just a handful of the cast. That’s just how I feel about it.

At least Fear’s filler kinda moved things along with reveals and the entire cast.

Also, when I compare the two, I’m just using the current seasons. Fear’s S4 and TWD’s season 7 and 8; cause those two seasons were formatted and executed exactly the same.

Both shows suffer with poorly executed firefights though. They need to cut that shit.

[MinionZombie]

Live viewing figures for 4x08 were 2.32m - so a bump up again after a series low the week prior.

[bassman]

Season 4B Comic Con trailer:

ZwCT5s6-JGA

[MinionZombie]

Zombie-nado! :D

There's certainly no mistaking the double meaning of the word "refreshment" splashed on-screen in that trailer. Fear really has gone through a reboot, but considering how iffy the show had become over the 2nd and 3rd seasons, that's no bad thing.

Super stoked that John Dorie is alive and well, bringing the dual pistols and wry humour - my new favourite character. Enjoyed the elevator door bit, too.

[Buzzbomb]

I was pretty disappointed with the way 4x08 was done. It's been a while since I've seen it, but it seemed like it relied on mis-direction for the most part, and the ending was handled very poorly... I mean a stadium with just one exit? Also the number of walkers around the armoured vehicle varied dramatically from shot to shot...

Hoping the 2nd half get's better, but so far Gimple has made things worse overall I think.

[MinionZombie]

4x09 "People Like Us"

Directed by: Magnus Martens
Written by: Anna Fishko

A bit late putting the info up, but nevertheless...

Looking forward to storm vs zombies action, but the most intriguing element was Morgan deciding to head back to Virginia - will something get in the way to frustrate that, or will he really end up back on TWD and might he bring the cast of Fear with him?

Is this some sort of 'wrapping up Fear' enterprise now? Might they be looking to take the best characters and insert them into TWD and shut down Fear in favour of a new spin off? I wouldn't be surprised, although if that is the case then that decision would have been made a long time ago (perhaps as a result of season 3 and the continued decline of viewing figures then) ... but being that Gimple is, IIRC, working on a new show in the TWD universe, it'd make sense to not have three zombie shows on at once, but to shut down Fear, take the best (surviving) characters, and port them over to the main show, then start all fresh on a new spin-off.

Thoughts? Personally I'd really like to see John Dorie on TWD with Morgan back in the fold again.

[Moon Knight]

I would love for that to happen but my only concern is that TWD already has a bloated roster of characters and Daryl Dixon. What I really love about current Fear is the smaller and more intimate scale of characters. 8X9 felt really refreshing and gave me similar vibes to early TWD. Everyone shines and feels important.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, one of TWD's core issues is the sheer size of its cast. The same problem is in the comics, and is worse in the comics as so many of the drawings look quite similar to one another (and you don't have an actor's face and voice and everything else to help you differentiate, like you do on the show). I suppose we need 'core representatives' from each group, but at least on the show we've got rid of the Heapsters and have now just got Jadis/Anna.

Anyway, if they're planning on moving them over, I really hope to see John Dorie on TWD. That character is my new favourite FTWD character, he's blown all the others out of the water IMHO. :D

[Moon Knight]

Strand is up there for me. No one on either show is like him. A complex, fun, and charismatic character. I agree about John too. Great character that I really hope makes it far.

The comic problem is spot on. Are you caught up or close to it, MZ?

[MinionZombie]

Strand is up there for me. No one on either show is like him. A complex, fun, and charismatic character. I agree about John too. Great character that I really hope makes it far.

The comic problem is spot on. Are you caught up or close to it, MZ?

1) Yeah, Strand has always been compelling and intriguing and it's fair to say he stands out in a good way.

2) Umm, I follow it via the trade paperback releases (they come out every six months), and so I have read Volume 29 (which collects issues #169-174), but the next one doesn't come out until mid-September, and then the volumes themselves are usually a handful of issues behind the monthly comics releases as well (the comics are up to Issue #182, apparently).

So I've read as far as Issue 174, to cut a long and fastidious story short. :D

[Moon Knight]

1) Yeah, Strand has always been compelling and intriguing and it's fair to say he stands out in a good way.

2) Umm, I follow it via the trade paperback releases (they come out every six months), and so I have read Volume 29 (which collects issues #169-174), but the next one doesn't come out until mid-September, and then the volumes themselves are usually a handful of issues behind the monthly comics releases as well (the comics are up to Issue #182, apparently).

So I've read as far as Issue 174, to cut a long and fastidious story short. :D

I used to do that but a major isssue was spoiled for me so I try and buy the solo issues. Trades are way to go with this series, though. I really hope the show takes a different direction.

[Buzzbomb]

I thought 4x09 was quite a week mid-season opener... tacky CGI and the irritating thing TWD does when characters stop for a chat when they're supposedly on a urgent mission/errand.

Hope Morgan goes back to TWD land and leaves FTWD alone... worst case nightmare is Rick showing up in FTWD land.

Good to see Series one now on E4 here in the UK. A few people in the office used to watch TWD (most dropped out with the Saviours thread) but none have seen FTWD so far due to the channel it's been on.

[MinionZombie]

4x10 "Close Your Eyes"

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Shintaro Shimosawa

Live viewing figures for 4x09 was 1.88m, the lowest rating of not only the season, but of the entire run. Let's see what happens with this next episode if it bounces back a bit.

If the figures continue to slide like that, then my theory of them doing away with Fear (and replacing it with a new spin-off) and inserting the surviving characters into TWD seems more likely (although, yes, any such decision would have been made a long time ago - but the figures have steadily declined overall since, well, episode 1x01).

[Moon Knight]

The whole franchise peaked already. I don’t see the ratings increasing on either show.

[MinionZombie]

This episode couldn't really sustain just two characters. There were some interesting scenes, but overall I did find myself checking my watch on a few occasions. I've never really been all that fussed about the character of Alicia, but the girl pulled off some good stuff in this episode and packed some punch.

They desperately need to cut the episode order down to 10 episodes and hack out all the filler, mind. At the very least cut it back to 12 for both shows.

I'd be surprised if FearTWD got a 5th season, but as I've said before I reckon they'll be looking to graft the remnants of FTWD onto TWD. As for FearTWD overall, I think it has contributed to an overdose of zombies on AMC. You're chomping through zombie material at twice the rate and it saps the audience want for that content. It is fair to say that TWD has peaked, season 6 was probably the peak point overall. That's not to say there hasn't been good - and great - material since, but the instances of iffy stuff has increased overall unfortunately. But these sorts of shows can't really sustain this many episodes for this many seasons and still remain as potent as they once were - they've now become part of the televisual wallpaper, the TV 'establishment' if you will, rather than the hot new thing or the big success story. Those stages have passed.

For any new AMC zombie show they're gonna have to come up with something a hell of a lot more interesting than yet more civilian survivors going through the same motions that we've already seen in TWD and repeated in FearTWD.

[MinionZombie]

Live figures for episode 4x10 saw a tiny dip down to 1.86m.

[Buzzbomb]

4x10 was another rather lame episode... I'm not sure that it's the number of episodes per season that's the problem though. It seems like the writing/ideas aren't up to scratch.
From the youtube clips of 4x11 the next episode looks like it will be better (but then it can't get much worse).

Series 5 has been announced... so we'll see.

[MinionZombie]

Series 5 has been announced... so we'll see.

Oh, really? Huh...

Yes, one part of it is the individuals stories and characters (some are stronger and some are weaker), but another part is definitely too many episodes (which all in-turn require stories to tell). With fewer episodes there'd be less need for filler or dragging out certain subplots.

Will they do a time rewind to see what other folks were doing during the storm? Because if that's it just done and dusted then wtf was all the promo stuff about making such a fuss about the storm ... surely we'll see what the likes of Morgan and Dorie got up to during the storm.

- - - Updated - - -

4x11 "The Code"

Directed by: Tara Nicole Weyr
Written by: Andrew Chambliss & Alex Delyle

Hopefully this week will be better than last week, eh?

[Moon Knight]

The classic TWD storytelling has come to FTWD. Yay.

[JDP]

The level of patience/tolerance for complete a-holes that totally deserve to die in this show has reached very unrealistic levels. First the regular group, including Alicia, somehow have managed to forgive Charlie for all the rotten things she's done, and for which even she admits that she deserves to die. Now Morgan also mysteriously tolerates the total a-holeness of these three new characters who left him stranded, hands tied behind his back, and surrounded on all sides by zombies. I say: BULLSHIT! In reality anyone who would survive that would have beaten the living crap to death out of all three for putting him into such a deadly situation and then leaving him to his fate.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, Morgan was pushing it a bit in this episode, but he wasn't fully trusting - e.g. his misdirections to the truckers. Now, as for the truckers themselves, they're not villains but they're selfish and without a better purpose. We do see Morgan bring their better side out of them, so ultimately there's a point to Morgan's way and that's the key thing - it's Morgan's way. You don't have to agree with it, but it's his way. Now, it may very well scupper him one day, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Anyway, this episode was much more interesting - rather than the old rope of 'spooky abandoned house with some zombies in it' from last episode (a conceit that's positively old hat in the TWD universe now), we got a more mysterious set-up with this 'take what you need' truck. There was more to discover and layers to peel back, and Lennie James can support an entire episode on his back.

[Moon Knight]

The cinematography for “Close your Eyes” was really good. And for people who still want Charlie dead after that episode I don’t know what to say. Going by that logic, everyone in TWD should be dead.

Last episode was ok. I really hate when they do strings of bottle episodes like this, screams of Scott Gimple.

I dig Aaron Stanford and seeing him in TWD is pretty cool.

I just find it ridiculous for such a small group they still have to split them all up. Amazing.

[JDP]

The cinematography for “Close your Eyes” was really good. And for people who still want Charlie dead after that episode I don’t know what to say. Going by that logic, everyone in TWD should be dead.

I'm calling BS on that comparison. The good guys in TWD did nothing comparable to Charlie's treachery. And she knows very well that she totally deserves to pay for what she did. She has no choice now but to admit it. Her "Vulture" pals are gone, she has no one left to run to and protect her. She's at the mercy of the very people she totally cooperated to screw up.

[MinionZombie]

I just find it ridiculous for such a small group they still have to split them all up. Amazing.

While it can inspire some other stories to come forth, and let you focus on certain elements from time-to-time, having a string of them does indeed frustrate. You can't have everyone all clubbing in in TWD because the cast is too large for that (and too large generally), but FearTWD does, as you say, have a pretty small cast. Last week's episode simply couldn't sustain a two-hander between Alicia and Charlie, even if it did have some good scenes during it, but it felt like a B-plot over-inflated to fill an entire damn episode.

[JDP]

Yeah, Morgan was pushing it a bit in this episode, but he wasn't fully trusting - e.g. his misdirections to the truckers. Now, as for the truckers themselves, they're not villains but they're selfish and without a better purpose. We do see Morgan bring their better side out of them, so ultimately there's a point to Morgan's way and that's the key thing - it's Morgan's way. You don't have to agree with it, but it's his way. Now, it may very well scupper him one day, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Morgan is weird, but his patience/tolerance for total a-holes also has a limit, like everyone else's. I just don't buy it that anyone would be so casually forgiving to let these three ungrateful, dishonest, selfish, cruel bastards off the hook so easily. At least a major beating the living crap out of all three of them is in due order for the truly low and dangerous stunt they pulled on him. He could easily have gotten killed there with his hands tied and no weapon to fight with. Not "funny" or "amusing" at all if you happen to be in a position like Morgan's.

[Moon Knight]

I'm calling BS on that comparison. The good guys in TWD did nothing comparable to Charlie's treachery. And she knows very well that she totally deserves to pay for what she did. She has no choice now but to admit it. Her "Vulture" pals are gone, she has no one left to run to and protect her. She's at the mercy of the very people she totally cooperated to screw up.

Please. Rick and group killed a bunch of guys in their sleep haha. Not to mention Nick just finished killing Mel’s brother before he was shot; someone who was just happening to be protecting Charlie at the time.

No one is innocent. Ask Alicia why she had to kill someone back at the hotel. Nick also killed Troy’s father haha.

I’m not saying what she did was right, but what she did was no worse than anything Alicia or Nick during the ZA.

[JDP]

Please. Rick and group killed a bunch of guys in their sleep haha. Not to mention Nick just finished killing Mel’s brother before he was shot; someone who was just happening to be protecting Charlie at the time.

No one is innocent. Ask Alicia why she had to kill someone back at the hotel. Nick also killed Troy’s father haha.

I’m not saying what she did was right, but what she did was no worse than anything Alicia or Nick during the ZA.

But there is one key difference between all the cases you are referring to and what Charlie did: Rick & company and Madison & company killed those people because they were plainly trouble-makers who were screwing up other people's lives in the first place. Charlie, on the other hand, fully cooperated in screwing up other people's lives who weren't bothering anyone. In fact, quite the opposite: Madison was very kind to take her in and even invite all her "Vulture" pals in as well (which they refused, so that they could easily pick up the spoils after they finished undermining Madison's group efforts to keep the stadium functioning as a sanctuary for survivors.) Charlie and her peeps are truly a despicable bunch who lived up to their nickname and who totally deserve to die.

[MinionZombie]

And Charlie is clearly so full of remorse that she wants to commit suicide, so it's not like she's some devil child cackling behind people's backs. She found herself in a situation that she couldn't really extricate herself from where she was helping immoral people - who had done right by her and protected her during the ZA, a hellish and lawless place to be and an exceptionally dangerous one for a young girl to find herself in - and she recognised too late her mistake, then tried to double down once her protecter was murdered by Nick. Yeah, the dude deserved it, but from Charlie's perspective this was the man who saved her, protected her, and put a safe roof over her head and kept her fed and watered.

Charlie was indeed involved in a situation that was unjustified, no doubt, but she's also recognised the damage she has helped cause. When faced with the opportunity to kill Charlie - a child, let's not forget - Alicia couldn't do it. She'd been to a very dark place where she had almost lost everything about herself, but had come back. If Alicia killed Charlie then she'd be a monster like any other monster in the ZA. Alicia chose not to because of the lessons of her mother. 'Deserved' or not, killing Charlie would still be the murder of a child, and there's some lines many folks would never cross even in the ZA.

The likes of John Dorie is a bystander in all of it, so he just sees a child on the wrong path and in danger.

As for Morgan, different people have different moral codes, and Morgan in particular has a very different moral code to so many people in the ZA. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but just because he doesn't toe your particular zombie apocalypse moral line, doesn't mean he's wrong. He's done things I heartily disagree with as well as things I heartily agree with. He's walking a more complex and difficult path. The easy and lazy route is to just go around murdering or thieving or being a turncoat (e.g. the beer maker), but you wouldn't be achieving your full potential that way ... plus the thrust of both shows now is about rebuilding society, and that takes selfless acts of kindness and difficult choices. The ZA would screw up pretty much everyone in some way or another, but there's opportunity to reverse the rot and rediscover your better qualities - this is exactly what Morgan is looking to achieve not only with himself but with those he meets. It's at the core of his character.

[JDP]

And Charlie is clearly so full of remorse that she wants to commit suicide, so it's not like she's some devil child cackling behind people's backs. She found herself in a situation that she couldn't really extricate herself from where she was helping immoral people - who had done right by her and protected her during the ZA, a hellish and lawless place to be and an exceptionally dangerous one for a young girl to find herself in - and she recognised too late her mistake, then tried to double down once her protecter was murdered by Nick. Yeah, the dude deserved it, but from Charlie's perspective this was the man who saved her, protected her, and put a safe roof over her head and kept her fed and watered.

Charlie was indeed involved in a situation that was unjustified, no doubt, but she's also recognised the damage she has helped cause. When faced with the opportunity to kill Charlie - a child, let's not forget - Alicia couldn't do it. She'd been to a very dark place where she had almost lost everything about herself, but had come back. If Alicia killed Charlie then she'd be a monster like any other monster in the ZA. Alicia chose not to because of the lessons of her mother. 'Deserved' or not, killing Charlie would still be the murder of a child, and there's some lines many folks would never cross even in the ZA.

The likes of John Dorie is a bystander in all of it, so he just sees a child on the wrong path and in danger.

It's easy to tell why Charlie confesses she's guilty and is "full of remorse" for what she did: she has no choice now. Before the current situation, she could always run back to her "Vulture" gang and be protected and not have to answer to anyone for the vile underhanded stuff she was doing. And that's in fact what she did, not once but twice (first when the "Vultures" openly revealed themselves and their plans, and second right after killing Nick.) But now they are gone, they were wiped out (and deservedly so.) She's now at the mercy of the remaining members of the very group that she helped to screw up.


As for Morgan, different people have different moral codes, and Morgan in particular has a very different moral code to so many people in the ZA. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but just because he doesn't toe your particular zombie apocalypse moral line, doesn't mean he's wrong. He's done things I heartily disagree with as well as things I heartily agree with. He's walking a more complex and difficult path. The easy and lazy route is to just go around murdering or thieving or being a turncoat (e.g. the beer maker), but you wouldn't be achieving your full potential that way ... plus the thrust of both shows now is about rebuilding society, and that takes selfless acts of kindness and difficult choices. The ZA would screw up pretty much everyone in some way or another, but there's opportunity to reverse the rot and rediscover your better qualities - this is exactly what Morgan is looking to achieve not only with himself but with those he meets. It's at the core of his character.

We have seen Morgan go bonkers and mercilessly slaughter unpleasant characters before. I don't see why would it be different in this case, specially since he himself was the target of these 3 carefree bastards' potentially deadly little "prank".

[MinionZombie]

We have seen Morgan go bonkers and mercilessly slaughter unpleasant characters before. I don't see why would it be different in this case, specially since he himself was the target of these 3 carefree bastards' potentially deadly little "prank".

He's not in "bonkers" mode now, though. He wavered a smidge at the bridge, fearing he'd only find his new friends dead or worse, but aside from that little wobble his head is screwed on straight - so slaughtering folks isn't in his approach now. He knows full well what relinquishing control of yourself over to the ZA does to a person, so he's now treading a path to fight against the side effects of the ZA itself.

[Moon Knight]

Alright. You win. Charlie is a monster. The most vile person on television. Off with her head.

[JDP]

He's not in "bonkers" mode now, though. He wavered a smidge at the bridge, fearing he'd only find his new friends dead or worse, but aside from that little wobble his head is screwed on straight - so slaughtering folks isn't in his approach now. He knows full well what relinquishing control of yourself over to the ZA does to a person, so he's now treading a path to fight against the side effects of the ZA itself.

There's two "bonkers" modes for Morgan: one is kill everyone who crosses his path, "good" or "bad", it doesn't matter. We haven't seen that one in a while. He might be "cured" from that one. The other one is triggered when someone does something that pisses him off real bad. We have seen that one more regularly, and even as recently as his whole anti-Saviors "kill'em all" rampage. I would say that leaving you surrounded by zombies, with your hands tied up, and no weapon to fight with pretty much qualifies as something that would piss anyone off to no end. You would not very casually "forgive" anyone who purposefully left you in such a situation and who could easily have helped you but 100% willingly did not lift a finger to do so. Something tells me that your strongest instinct after getting out of that one (if you get out of that one, that is) would be to find the persons who did this to you and beat the holy living crap out of them as payback for their potentially deadly little "prank".

[MinionZombie]

Alright. You win. Charlie is a monster. The most vile person on television. Off with her head.

If we find ourselves in a zombie apocalypse, we'll know who to turn to for all our 'evil kid' slaying needs. :lol:;):lol:


There's two "bonkers" modes for Morgan: one is kill everyone who crosses his path, "good" or "bad", it doesn't matter. We haven't seen that one in a while. He might be "cured" from that one. The other one is triggered when someone does something that pisses him off real bad. We have seen that one more regularly, and even as recently as his whole anti-Saviors "kill'em all" rampage. I would say that leaving you surrounded by zombies, with your hands tied up, and no weapon to fight with pretty much qualifies as something that would piss anyone off to no end. You would not very casually "forgive" anyone who purposefully left you in such a situation and who could easily have helped you but 100% willingly did not lift a finger to do so. Something tells me that your strongest instinct after getting out of that one (if you get out of that one, that is) would be to find the persons who did this to you and beat the holy living crap out of them as payback for their potentially deadly little "prank".

Well that's how you might react to that specific scenario, but you're not Morgan and Morgan isn't you. Clearly his threshold for what justifies a rampage is different. :D

[JDP]

If we find ourselves in a zombie apocalypse, we'll know who to turn to for all our 'evil kid' slaying needs. :lol:;):lol:



Well that's how you might react to that specific scenario, but you're not Morgan and Morgan isn't you. Clearly his threshold for what justifies a rampage is different. :D

This goes beyond just a "me" and "you" reacting differently to some trivial situation. This is how most people would react to this very serious situation. You don't casually just forgive people who almost got you killed. It's just the way it is. Just look around our world. People kill or beat each other for quite less. Plus like I said, we have seen Morgan go bonkers for things that pissed him off before. The potentially deadly situation he was unnecessarily put in by those three bozos most certainly qualifies as something that would piss the hell out of anyone.

[MinionZombie]

This is how most people would react to this very serious situation.

Most, not all. Morgan's in the fraction who'd react differently. He's on a different path, and previous rampages have been triggered by very different things - the most recent being All Out War, an actual war with an organised bunch of sadistic psychopaths holding numerous communities to ransom, known for bashing people's heads in with a baseball bath, not just a trio of selfish dicks who gave him an option to come along quietly (which he himself chose not to do).

Clearly Morgan's approach worked in the end, though - he inspired a better side of these folks to come out, and that's exactly the whole point of his approach. There's full blown reason to Morgan's method. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you, but he's acting how he wants to act.

[JDP]

Most, not all. Morgan's in the fraction who'd react differently. He's on a different path, and previous rampages have been triggered by very different things - the most recent being All Out War, an actual war with an organised bunch of sadistic psychopaths holding numerous communities to ransom, known for bashing people's heads in with a baseball bath, not just a trio of selfish dicks who gave him an option to come along quietly (which he himself chose not to do).

Clearly Morgan's approach worked in the end, though - he inspired a better side of these folks to come out, and that's exactly the whole point of his approach. There's full blown reason to Morgan's method. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you, but he's acting how he wants to act.

If anything Morgan would react the same way most people would, in fact quite worse than most people. The guy has some very obvious anger-management issues. He not only went berserk on the Saviors, BTW, he even killed a Kingdomer with his bare hands and tried to beat up Jesus. Anyone who does something to piss this guy off is a target for his "bonkers mode". Now, Morgan has very good reasons to withhold important information from these new a-holes. They are NOT trustworthy. He's caught them lying, stealing and kidnapping. Despite that, Morgan was not doing anything against them except not giving them information regarding the location of his group. These three selfish carefree bastards then left him stranded in a deadly situation right after they thought they had gotten the information they needed. Which only further confirms what untrustworthy a-holes they are. Conclusion: most logical course of action for Morgan would be to get back at them really, really bad for the low shit they pulled. Yet he totally unrealistically just casually lets the whole thing go!

[MinionZombie]

4x12 "Weak"

Directed by: Colman Domingo
Written by: Kalinda Vazquez

Episode 4x11's live viewing figures saw another small drop down to 1.83m.

[Buzzbomb]

4x11 was better... at least I thought so until towards the end when I got the feeling it could have just been a discarded TWD script. Then I got to thinking that the storyline was out of place time-wise. 3-4-5 years in from the ZA there wouldn't be enough diesel to run a HGV truck and no way that a guy could hold out in his producing his craft beer...

4x12 = the title (sadly) says it all.

[MinionZombie]

I think we'll be something like 3 years into the ZA with the upcoming time jump in TWD, and I think it's about the same for FearTWD.

[MinionZombie]

4x13 "Blackjack"

Directed by: Sharat Raju
Written by: Ian Goldberg & Richard Naing

Episode 4x12 saw another drop in live viewing figures, setting a new low for the show: 1.52m ... not sure what the time shift viewing figures are, anyone know where to find them?

Too many damn episodes, too much content being consumed/recycled/dragged out - AMC, for the love of Grimes, reduce the episode count to 12 max or better yet 10 ... or hell, even 8.

[Moon Knight]

4x13 "Blackjack"

Directed by: Sharat Raju
Written by: Ian Goldberg & Richard Naing

Episode 4x12 saw another drop in live viewing figures, setting a new low for the show: 1.52m ... not sure what the time shift viewing figures are, anyone know where to find them?

Too many damn episodes, too much content being consumed/recycled/dragged out - AMC, for the love of Grimes, reduce the episode count to 12 max or better yet 10 ... or hell, even 8.

As long as that ad revenue keeps on trucking no chance of that happening anytime soon.

And I agree with you. The damn structure doesn’t help either. I really hope season 9 isn’t like this.

[MinionZombie]

Ad revenue, sure ... but surely if the figures keep sliding then advertisers aren't going to be keen to stump up the same cash 'cos they're not reaching as many viewers?

While fewer episodes would mean less ad revenue, they'd also not need to spend as much making it ... now, yes, there's the profit margin of ad revenue over production costs etc, but it really would be the best thing for the show itself for quality of product and sustainability. It feels all too often that AMC are now just milking the TWD cow, demanding too much of it, sucking the life out of it. :(

[Moon Knight]

Ad revenue, sure ... but surely if the figures keep sliding then advertisers aren't going to be keen to stump up the same cash 'cos they're not reaching as many viewers?

While fewer episodes would mean less ad revenue, they'd also not need to spend as much making it ... now, yes, there's the profit margin of ad revenue over production costs etc, but it really would be the best thing for the show itself for quality of product and sustainability. It feels all too often that AMC are now just milking the TWD cow, demanding too much of it, sucking the life out of it. :(

FTWD still gets more views and social media buzz than anything else AMC would air at that time instead. I just wish it never existed to begin with. TWD’s ratings decline started with season 6, right after the first season of FTWD aired.

As long as the TWD’s name is attached AMC ain’t budging. Hell, they making a third spin off lol. The price the fans pay for enjoying something too much.

[MinionZombie]

The price the fans pay for enjoying something too much.

Ridiculous, isn't it? :|

If AMC try to have three zombies on at the same time (i.e. within each broadcast year), then WTF. End Fear, take the best remnants (e.g. Morgan and John Dorie) and insert them into TWD, then do a new spin off if you must insist, AMC. I guess they don't really give a shit about "sustainability" and "audiece fatigue", nor chomping through story at a rate of knots.

If this new spin off is just yet another bunch of civilian survivors going through the same motions and plotlines we've already seen on TWD and then repeated on FearTWD I'm gonna be pissed.

This whole thing is a shame, too, because Fear started off with a purpose - to show the beginning of the ZA - but it botched that completely. Then it had another chance with the superb 4x01 rebooting things, but yet again because of so many damn episodes to fill and this insistence on splitting up the cast and scattering them to the wind, we've seen yet another decline over the course of this season. :(

[JDP]

The strange sudden ineptitude of some characters is also reaching hard to "digest" (pun fully intended) levels. Did Strand really need to risk getting bit just to get that bottle of booze inside the pick-up truck? Please! All he had to do is borrow Dorie's revolver and shoot the trapped zombie in the head. Presto. Getting rid of a zombie in your way is not that difficult when you actually have a gun and ammo readily available.

[MinionZombie]

The strange sudden ineptitude of some characters is also reaching hard to "digest" (pun fully intended) levels. Did Strand really need to risk getting bit just to get that bottle of booze inside the pick-up truck? Please! All he had to do is borrow Dorie's revolver and shoot the trapped zombie in the head. Presto. Getting rid of a zombie in your way is not that difficult when you actually have a gun and ammo readily available.

I think John's plan involved using the zombie as a distraction tool, but yes, Strand trying to get the bottle was a dumb ass move. However, he seems borderline suicidal or is just wallowing in a desperately drunken state and hopelessness. As he was saying in the ep, he has nothing to look forward to and has lost everything. He doesn't have the optimism and doggedly can-do attitude of John.

[Moon Knight]

We have to understand the shit these people have gone through and continue to go through. Completely different mindsets compared to us watching from a couch comfortably.

Was it stupid? Yes. Did it make sense for Strand’s current character? Absolutely.

- - - Updated - - -


I think John's plan involved using the zombie as a distraction tool, but yes, Strand trying to get the bottle was a dumb ass move. However, he seems borderline suicidal or is just wallowing in a desperately drunken state and hopelessness. As he was saying in the ep, he has nothing to look forward to and has lost everything. He doesn't have the optimism and doggedly can-do attitude of John.

Yep. Stand is very annoyed with John haha.

[JDP]

I think John's plan involved using the zombie as a distraction tool, but yes, Strand trying to get the bottle was a dumb ass move. However, he seems borderline suicidal or is just wallowing in a desperately drunken state and hopelessness. As he was saying in the ep, he has nothing to look forward to and has lost everything. He doesn't have the optimism and doggedly can-do attitude of John.

I don't remember anything about that trapped zombie being part of the plan. It seems like Dorie only wanted Strand to get the camper from the pick-up truck.

Strand is not suicidal by any means. That's why he refuses to attempt to cross the river in the first place. He wants to be safe and not put his life in danger. So it doesn't make much sense for him to engage in such clumsy actions that could have spelled his death sentence. All he had to do is borrow the revolver and shoot the zombie.

[MinionZombie]

Strand's aspirations reach no further than drinking for a few more days while they still have rations. He has no yearning to head back into the ZA and he certainly has no goal, unlike John. A suicidal person doesn't necessarily have to be going hammer and tongs for death, and indeed in a ZA scenario a person might just be very careless - as in, have no real concern for their own well-being. Yes, it's a dumb thing to do, trying to grab that bottle, but it's within the rationale of his current state of mind. There's no fight left in Strand at this point.

Gotta say, Dillahunt is the best thing in this show by a country mile. I dig how he plays Dorie, all the little movements or understatements or whatever - like when talking Strand into getting the shell off the back of the stranded truck. :cool:

[JDP]

Strand's aspirations reach no further than drinking for a few more days while they still have rations. He has no yearning to head back into the ZA and he certainly has no goal, unlike John. A suicidal person doesn't necessarily have to be going hammer and tongs for death, and indeed in a ZA scenario a person might just be very careless - as in, have no real concern for their own well-being. Yes, it's a dumb thing to do, trying to grab that bottle, but it's within the rationale of his current state of mind. There's no fight left in Strand at this point.

Not buying this "explanation". A suicidal person isn't going to prefer a slow agonizing death, and one where you will end up becoming a zombie as well to boot, over a quicker death that will likely not end up turning you into a zombie. If he was, he wouldn't care about the alligator at all either and would have had no trouble whatsoever playing "you can't catch me" with it. No. Strand is not in any "suicidal mood". Just being his usual selfish "me first!" way. He clearly wants to survive for as long as possible and not risk his neck. Therefore, his dumb actions regarding the zombie and the bottle of booze don't make much sense. He could easily have dispatched that zombie with Dorie's revolver, and then there would have been nothing in the way to get the "prize" he was after.

[MinionZombie]

4x14 "MM 54"

Directed by: Lou Diamond Phillips
Written by: Anna Fishko & Shintaro Shimosawa

The previous episode's live viewing figures saw a bit of a bump back up to 1.71m.

[Buzzbomb]

4x13 was a vast improvement - probably the best of the 2nd half. That James Bond wheelchair was a bit naff though... but then having a wheelchair-bound 3-4-5 years in is stretching it a bit.

[MinionZombie]

4x13 was a vast improvement - probably the best of the 2nd half. That James Bond wheelchair was a bit naff though... but then having a wheelchair-bound 3-4-5 years in is stretching it a bit.

I didn't mind the wheelchair, it would make sense to adapt it like that - but - I don't want too much of that. It's something that has to be used very sparingly and the limitations need to be recognised, and the reasons how/why they've made it that far into the ZA need to be explained. For example, Eugene wouldn't have made it on his own, but we saw exactly why he made it. Now, the wheelchair dude has obvsiously had a lot of help and protection from trucker lady, but in the ZA world at this point it'd be rare to find anyone who hadn't properly earned their breathing privileges. In the right circumstances Eugene earns his bread and butter, for instance.

[Moon Knight]

Wendal is becoming one of my favorites for sure. Sarah is cool too.

Mad the beer guy Jim is toast. We need more characters like him haha.

[MinionZombie]

Wendell's walker-killing wheelchair is toast, too - so we've had a taste of that, but this also means it won't be getting overused like some silly gimmick. Just a taste of that is all you need.

Yeah, I like the Wendell/Sara combo. Bring them and John and Morgan on back to TWD, ta muchly. :D

[JDP]

Wendell & Sarah deserve to die as much as the beer dude. They left Morgan stranded, hands tied behind his back, with no weapon, nothing, right in the middle of a deadly situation without a care in the world. Bizarrely enough, Morgan just casually "forgets" or forgives what these 3 a-holes did to him.

On top of that, Wendell stupidly did not kill the mad killer woman (Martha) who destroyed their rig and almost killed them. The perplexing dumb & paradoxical behavior of some characters just doesn't stop. In reality, that shotgun blast would have been aimed straight at her chest or head, no hesitations, right after seeing what that wacko has already done and is capable of doing.

[MinionZombie]

I was frustrated by not shooting the bad lady - she was right there - and more stupidly after a great diversion (the truck exploding) she's just stood there in an open door having a good old gawp, rather than slamming the door shut. That part really irked me.

We've been over the whole Morgan/truckers thing earlier in the thread, so we don't need to do it all over again.

[Moon Knight]

Dude thinks the twins deserve to die but Morgan is fine haha. Yeah, I guess Morgan made good after slaughtering so many during his “clear” phase.

Yep, MZ. Better to move on.

[JDP]

Dude thinks the twins deserve to die but Morgan is fine haha. Yeah, I guess Morgan made good after slaughtering so many during his “clear” phase.

Yep, MZ. Better to move on.

Morgan has obvious mental issues, these other guys don't. Morgan didn't even recognize Rick during his "clear" phase!

[Moon Knight]

Morgan has obvious mental issues, these other guys don't. Morgan didn't even recognize Rick during his "clear" phase!

So he gets a pass?! :D

[JDP]

So he gets a pass?! :D

Do you judge people with mental problems the same way as people without them? In a fully functional society, Morgan would be under psychiatric watch & treatment, but since he is living through a zombie apocalypse that has destroyed society he doesn't have the advantage of such help. The only meaningful help he has is himself: his own self-control. And so far he seems to have managed to keep his worst behavioral problems under control. We haven't seen him in the "clear" mode in a long time. What excuse do the other guys have for having pulled such a rotten thing on him, though? They did it because of their a-holeness!

[Moon Knight]

Morgan slaughtered innocent people simply for crossing him lol.

A-Holes and psychopaths are in different leagues, my friend.

[JDP]

Morgan slaughtered innocent people simply for crossing him lol.

A-Holes and psychopaths are in different leagues, my friend.

That's why they can't be judged by the same standards. Morgan didn't know what he was doing at the time, he didn't even recognize his friend. He was a different person than his normal self. These other guys did what they did being 100% aware of what they were doing, not because of some momentary insanity.

[MinionZombie]

Morgan didn't recognise Rick ... until he did. ;)

[Moon Knight]

Morgan didn't recognise Rick ... until he did. ;)

Haha.

[MinionZombie]

Episode 4x14 saw another little rise in live viewing figures - 1.87m (the highest figure for this back half so far has been 1.88m).

[Moon Knight]

Episode 4x14 saw another little rise in live viewing figures - 1.87m (the highest figure for this back half so far has been 1.88m).

You believe the ratings would be a bit higher if Nick and Madison were still around?

[MinionZombie]

You believe the ratings would be a bit higher if Nick and Madison were still around?

Hmmm ... good question. There's maybe a smidge of that, but I think the falling ratings (I'm just going on live figures, not sure what the time shift ratings are) is more a general symptom of a few things including AMC zombie fatigue as well as too much filler (i.e. too many episodes, I know I keep going on about it, but it's still true).

It is fair to say that the 'identity' of the show, for lack of a better term, has shifted with the loss of two main characters like Nick and Madison (you can't help but wonder if there's a 'leaving a sinking ship' vibe to their departure, quite possibly not, but the whiff of curiosity still lingers). The strongest characters this season are either a new entrant (John) or someone ported over from the main show (Morgan). With a selection of other new folks along the way, it's kinda like a different show in some regards.

Fear has always struggled for a real purpose in being. Focusing on another set of civilians lead to very similar scenarios as we've seen on TWD already, and the "beginning of the ZA" aspect was ditched very quickly and was never really deployed very well - they rushed through it in season one, although season one was generally quite good as we got to see some of the initial chaos and collapse - I recall episode two being particularly scary as it was so realistic how riots were breaking out and how easily things could fall apart. Since then Fear has just kinda been like a CSI instalment - it's TWD: Mexico then it's TWD: Texas, you know? They're struggling for story with too many episodes to fill.

TWD at least has the source material as a roadmap (in spite of one or two ill-advised diversions) as well as a strong cast of characters with whom the audience is really invested, but TWD as well would have benefitted from an episode drop. I mean, ideally, ten episodes in one shot (no split seasons) would have been perfect from the get-go - you wouldn't have chomped through story quite so quickly in some regards, you wouldn't require filler, and the actors would have more time to either pursue other projects as their profiles take off or spend some time with their families.

I think TV production in America really needs to drop these large episode orders to create a more sustainable work-life balance for everyone involved while unshackling the writers from the need to fill so many blank pages.

[Buzzbomb]

4x14 was a bit lame... Lot's of typical TWD-ism's... unrealistic injuries (husband in car impaled/not a scratch on wife) / exploding diesel lorry / the inevitable bite that wasn't noticed and seasoned survivors abandoning their senses - like barricades being built on beds with wheels.... or getting trapped on the top floor.
At least it had Zombies though... and we won't be seeing the souped-up wheelchair again (they must have heard Minion).

[MinionZombie]

4x14 was a bit lame... Lot's of typical TWD-ism's... unrealistic injuries (husband in car impaled/not a scratch on wife) / exploding diesel lorry / the inevitable bite that wasn't noticed and seasoned survivors abandoning their senses - like barricades being built on beds with wheels.... or getting trapped on the top floor.
At least it had Zombies though... and we won't be seeing the souped-up wheelchair again (they must have heard Minion).

:lol::lol::lol:

If only television production was that swift, haha. :D

Yeah, the barricades made from wheeled objects annoyed me - like, turn it over at least! I did enjoy the slow swarm of zombies following them through the hospital though. They found themselves in a bad luck situation which could happen in the ZA quite easily, so it was good to see them becoming desperate and getting pushed further and further back.

The bite on beer dude wasn't a shock. We've seen the 'lower back/love handles' bite a few times already, hidden beneath a shirt, but I suppose there's only so many places you can have a zombie bite somebody...

[MinionZombie]

4x15 "I Lose People..."

Directed by: David Barrett
Written by: Kalinda Vazquez

Two episodes left in Fear's fourth season...

[MinionZombie]

Even though Alicia and Charlie hadn't previously met this crazy 'make you stronger' lady, I was frustrated that they didn't just snuff her out. I know there's this thread of returning from the dark side to help people, but goddamn, some people are beyond help - and this lady is too damn crazy. They knew enough about her to make the distinction. Now, the trucker duo were just selfish in their survival, but you can tell there's something worth saving in them and that they have that chance to be a better person again - but crazy lady with the marker pen? She's batshit nuts. You can't have somebody that loony roaming around in the ZA.

Sure, Morgan was far gone, but he was brought back through far more effective methods and Morgan himself was more of a victim of his madness, whereas this lady is a victimiser.

Also, if beer guy ends up shambling about as a walker I'll be irked because they specifically stated that from a fall like that you'd just be a mangled mess unable to go anywhere - zombie or not, if the limbs ain't functioning they ain't functioning (remember the Black Sabbath-referencing walker in the wheelchair in season 4 during the post-Woodbury episodes for The Governer?)

This one did kind of stretch the workings of the walkers a little bit - they've all got eyes on the folks standing on the fire truck, but get distracted by a kinda distant car alarm - despite food being right there standing in front of them in full view. At least have them try to hide from view inside/on top of the truck prior to the car alarm plan (i.e. beer guy could have said for them to make themselves disappear from view - then he jumps).

[JDP]

Even though Alicia and Charlie hadn't previously met this crazy 'make you stronger' lady, I was frustrated that they didn't just snuff her out. I know there's this thread of returning from the dark side to help people, but goddamn, some people are beyond help - and this lady is too damn crazy. They knew enough about her to make the distinction. Now, the trucker duo were just selfish in their survival, but you can tell there's something worth saving in them and that they have that chance to be a better person again - but crazy lady with the marker pen? She's batshit nuts. You can't have somebody that loony roaming around in the ZA.

Sure, Morgan was far gone, but he was brought back through far more effective methods and Morgan himself was more of a victim of his madness, whereas this lady is a victimiser.

Also, if beer guy ends up shambling about as a walker I'll be irked because they specifically stated that from a fall like that you'd just be a mangled mess unable to go anywhere - zombie or not, if the limbs ain't functioning they ain't functioning (remember the Black Sabbath-referencing walker in the wheelchair in season 4 during the post-Woodbury episodes for The Governer?)

This one did kind of stretch the workings of the walkers a little bit - they've all got eyes on the folks standing on the fire truck, but get distracted by a kinda distant car alarm - despite food being right there standing in front of them in full view. At least have them try to hide from view inside/on top of the truck prior to the car alarm plan (i.e. beer guy could have said for them to make themselves disappear from view - then he jumps).

Writers are getting lazy. Plus there's also other contradictions with previous episodes. Example: remember when they were at the hotel in Mexico and a bunch of zombies started falling from the balconies? A whole bunch of them stood up and walked. But now it was stated that falling from such heights would damage the body too much to be functional, zombie or not. So which one is it then???

Crazy lady is too far gone. She would be shot on sight by anyone who is familiar with how insane she is. Too dangerous to let her roam around at her will.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, zombie or not, a fall from a great height is gonna mash up the human body a hell of a lot.

I'd hope that they show her with just the head cut off as her tool of 'making people stronger' (her whole reason for it is pretty patchy and vague and doesn't make a lot of sense, frankly) ... but I wouldn't be surprised if they completely ignore it and have beer guy shambling along with just like a broken arm or something. :rolleyes:

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, zombie or not, a fall from a great height is gonna mash up the human body a hell of a lot.

I'd hope that they show her with just the head cut off as her tool of 'making people stronger' (her whole reason for it is pretty patchy and vague and doesn't make a lot of sense, frankly) ... but I wouldn't be surprised if they completely ignore it and have beer guy shambling along with just like a broken arm or something. :rolleyes:

Oh Jimbo is on his feet next episode alright lol.

[Buzzbomb]

4x15 - have to agree with y'all - there's no way Jimbo would be anything other than mincemeat after that fall...

Also - having the firetruck conveniently outside & the generator with just enough fuel to operate the lifts was a bit of a stretch.

Started watching the series from the beginning to see if it improved any with second viewing... Noticed that in 4x01 Morgan gets shot in the leg before proceeding to leap about on the roof of the static caravan's in the hand-to-hand fight scene. So OK, probably just a glancing flesh wound... but afterwards (and in subsequent episodes) he's hobbling around unable to put weight on that leg. :duh:

In the first episode, there's also a scene where Morgan and John Dorrie have to scramble to the ground to avoid the random machine gun fire from the SWAT truck. Doesn't it seem odd that neither of them get hit, yet all the zombies somehow manage to get caught by enough bullets to presumably ensure they all took a round to the head?

With all the inconsistencies and coincidental stretches it's no wonder the ratings of this and TWD have gone down.

[MinionZombie]

4x16 "I Lose Myself..."

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: Andrew Chambliss & Ian Goldberg

Another little rise in live viewing figures came with episode 4x15 - 2.03m, which is the first time the ratings have been above 2 million for this half of the season.

[MinionZombie]

Well, that was ... ... :shifty:

I still think that crazy lady character was a fairly naff villain. I never felt any shred of sympathy for her, and her whole motivation didn't make any real sense. Seeing beer guy walking around at all as a zombie was stupid (and frustrating) after a fall from that height.

The convenient tanker of ethanol sitting around outside was a big WTF moment, with the silly 'oops I shot a bunch of holes in the thing we really needed' moment (if it was 'full' of ethanol there'd be plenty in there to collect from the holes (but no, just lie there gawping while the remainder drains away FFS!!!) ... the Augie's Ales truck was similarly convenient.

This whole back half of the season has screamed with filler and too many damn episodes, which is hampering the show severely and damaging the good parts! It's very frustrating to see that happening, although with FearTWD it's not exactly surprising, but the promise of 4x01 is a distant memory now. :(

Let's go to Alexandria ... ... actually, sod that, let's hang around here dispensing help boxes. Eh?!

[JDP]

Well, that was ... ... :shifty:

I still think that crazy lady character was a fairly naff villain. I never felt any shred of sympathy for her, and her whole motivation didn't make any real sense. Seeing beer guy walking around at all as a zombie was stupid (and frustrating) after a fall from that height.

The convenient tanker of ethanol sitting around outside was a big WTF moment, with the silly 'oops I shot a bunch of holes in the thing we really needed' moment (if it was 'full' of ethanol there'd be plenty in there to collect from the holes (but no, just lie there gawping while the remainder drains away FFS!!!) ... the Augie's Ales truck was similarly convenient.

This whole back half of the season has screamed with filler and too many damn episodes, which is hampering the show severely and damaging the good parts! It's very frustrating to see that happening, although with FearTWD it's not exactly surprising, but the promise of 4x01 is a distant memory now. :(

Let's go to Alexandria ... ... actually, sod that, let's hang around here dispensing help boxes. Eh?!

Strand had a plastic gallon in his hands ready to be filled with alcohol from the truck. It really made no sense at all that he didn't just walk to one of the bullet-holes where the alcohol was spilling out and just fill up the container.

[Hail]

I liked Season 4.
I did not like the previous 3 seasons at all, barely watched them.
But I think they killed off all the characters I didn't like. :)
Some parts of the Season4 final were...silly but it was fun.
And since I wasn't an avid fan I really wasn't 100% sure they weren't going to kill off all the characters, which would have been an awesome ending!, so it was suspenseful for me.
Beer probably wouldn't have been too effective but I liked how they tied it all up at the end.

[MinionZombie]

Beer probably wouldn't have been too effective but I liked how they tied it all up at the end.

Mmmm ... I did like the moment with Charlie guzzling down beers with John and June nervously looking on, and "one time thing" and all that, haha.

I also liked when they bust out from the truck stop doors and everyone got their moment to kill some zombies. It was well choreographed. But then the silly machine gun moment. :rolleyes:

[Moon Knight]

FTWD has better cinematography than TWD. Just look at that opening shot for example. Much better music too. All the remaining cast for the most part works too. Especially Strand and John. Alicia has grown on me.

Everything else though, really let me down.

Really can’t disagree with any of the above criticisms. No Alexandria? Really dissapointed.

[MinionZombie]

Better cinematography? Hmmm ... as-good-as, sure ... it has a different style and they do try out a few things, or choose some interesting angles/details for certain things, so TWD could spruce itself up with a few more fancy shots on occasion, but it's good that FearTWD has a slightly different 'look' about it. I like that we've regained some colour again, it's still quite desaturated, but I liked that the 'now/then' colour designs have kind of merged.

Music wise I still give the win to the main show.

[Moon Knight]

Better cinematography? Hmmm ... as-good-as, sure ... it has a different style and they do try out a few things, or choose some interesting angles/details for certain things, so TWD could spruce itself up with a few more fancy shots on occasion, but it's good that FearTWD has a slightly different 'look' about it. I like that we've regained some colour again, it's still quite desaturated, but I liked that the 'now/then' colour designs have kind of merged.

Music wise I still give the win to the main show.

Really go back and research the music. FTWD has more of a horror edge to it. Even the opening western jingle works. TWD music has really declined for me with the last best theme being the ending sequence during “Hearts Stll Beating”. Lately it really devolved to some pretty cheesy soap opera’ish scores; especially during “dramatic” scenes.