TWD 9x04 "The Obliged" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 9x04 "The Obliged" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Rosemary Rodriguez
Written by: Geraldine Inoa

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TWD-904-01.jpg

[Moon Knight]

They just had to bring this Jadis crap back. Hoping it’s sqaushed once and for all tonight. Fingers crossed.

[MinionZombie]

They just had to bring this Jadis crap back. Hoping it’s sqaushed once and for all tonight. Fingers crossed.

Feels more to me like the ghosts of her past deals coming back to haunt her, rather than her reverting to type so much ... last episode we heard how she wanted to be seen as having changed, but Rick questioning her suggested all she'd tried to do hadn't quite worked (not in a devious way, but in a genuine way it seemed to me). She wants to be Anna rather than Jadis, but Jadis' history lingers, you know?

[facestabber]

Michonnes conflict. Rick and Carol completed with tears. Rick and Daryl Brothers. I almost hate admitting that I am really enjoying this season. But seeing Rick impaled just has me torn.

[MinionZombie]

Some really good stuff in this episode - I wonder what has transpired back at the camp, and ooh - two herds about to merge. Blimey!!!

The whole bit with Rick/Daryl fighting it out in the sinkhole - both the verbal confrontation and then having to get out as walkers come tumbling in - was one of my highlights of the episode, and possibly my favourite bit of this episode in fact.

And Anne - she needs an "A" to get access to where she wants to go, but she's left Gabriel there ... either she's fleeing somewhere else in shame, or she needs to find a new "A".


Michonnes conflict. Rick and Carol completed with tears. Rick and Daryl Brothers. I almost hate admitting that I am really enjoying this season. But seeing Rick impaled just has me torn.

I'm wondering if Rick being impaled is a cliffhanger red herring. Daryl and Maggie and thingymy (forget her name, but the bow & arrow lady from The Kingdom), are all out there in the vicinity. Perhaps it could be Maggie? That crossroads is on the way to Alexandria, after all, and it would impede her plan to 'visit' Negan.

And don't 'hate to admit' you're enjoying this season, facestabber, just enjoy it - this season has so far been great. :):thumbsup:

Sure, I'm trepidatious about Rick's exit from the show, but there's some things we can't control.

[Moon Knight]

Best episode yet.

GOTDAMN I can’t express how much I loved Rick and Daryl’s arc this episode.

I really wish we got Angela Kang a lot sooner.

The ending was heartbreaking.

[MinionZombie]

GOTDAMN I can’t express how much I loved Rick and Daryl’s arc this episode.

I really wish we got Angela Kang a lot sooner.

The ending was heartbreaking.

1) There were some very 'deep man emotions' in their looks going back and forth before they split, Rick heading the herd off with a horse.

2) Yep. I wish she'd taken over at Season 8. Carl would have still been alive, quite possibly, and the things that the show has improved upon here would have come much sooner.

3) Did you notice the parallel to the very first episode of TWD? Rick, on a horse, at a crossroads, surrounded by zombies - in 1x01 his horse rears and here in 9x04 his horse rears, and in both he ends up getting encroached upon by countless walkers.

[Moon Knight]

Not too mention both times the horse kicked Rick off; almost exactly the same way. This time he wasn’t so lucky. Ouch, man, the feels.

[JDP]

3) Did you notice the parallel to the very first episode of TWD? Rick, on a horse, at a crossroads, surrounded by zombies - in 1x01 his horse rears and here in 9x04 his horse rears, and in both he ends up getting encroached upon by countless walkers.

Except that this time Rick being toppled from the horse was quite unnecessary. Unlike the pilot episode, where he was truly surrounded by zombies and closed spaces from all sides and could not have escaped by riding the horse, this time he could easily have maneuvered his way around the encroaching zombies. He had plenty of clear open space around to do this without any zombies whatsoever nearby.

[facestabber]

Best episode yet.

GOTDAMN I can’t express how much I loved Rick and Daryl’s arc this episode.

I really wish we got Angela Kang a lot sooner.

The ending was heartbreaking.

If I ever invent time travel I will add a Gimple visit to my list. He won't go past season 5.

The last shot had an Ariel view that panned up and away just like the pilot. Tough pill to swallow. There is some irony here. Basically what they are saying is that there is an element of luck to survive in this world. Rick surviving Atlanta was a miracle but he did it. This time he lands on some random metal pipe.

Rick Grimes is a legend and I can't say enough how much I respect and appreciate Andrew Lincoln. The guy delivered time and time again.

[Moon Knight]

Except that this time Rick being toppled from the horse was quite unnecessary. Unlike the pilot episode, where he was truly surrounded by zombies and closed spaces from all sides and could not have escaped by riding the horse, this time he could easily have maneuvered his way around the encroaching zombies. He had plenty of clear open space around to do this without any zombies whatsoever nearby.

Ffs stop. Please.

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If I ever invent time travel I will add a Gimple visit to my list. He won't go past season 5.

The last shot had an Ariel view that panned up and away just like the pilot. Tough pill to swallow. There is some irony here. Basically what they are saying is that there is an element of luck to survive in this world. Rick surviving Atlanta was a miracle but he did it. This time he lands on some random metal pipe.

Rick Grimes is a legend and I can't say enough how much I respect and appreciate Andrew Lincoln. The guy delivered time and time again.

That’s what I love about it. It’s so random. It can happen to anyone.

[JDP]

Ffs stop. Please.

Did you bother to carefully look at the sequence? Do so before making such "comments". He could easily have avoided the two herds of zombies. Plenty of open space to his right side without any of them around. Could easily have steered the horse in that direction to avoid them.

[Moon Knight]

Did you bother to carefully look at the sequence? Do so before making such "comments". He could easily have avoided the two herds of zombies. Plenty of open space to his right side without any of them around. Could easily have steered the horse in that direction to avoid them.

I just don’t see it like that.

[JDP]

I just don’t see it like that.

I am not sure how could you see it any other way. It's just the way and the location the sequence was shot. Look at this:

https://static2.thisisinsider.com/image/5bd66ecd48eb1201550a9982-1776/rick-other-roads.png

Now, don't tell me how you can't see that Rick could easily have just steered the horse pretty much anywhere to his right side and easily avoided the advancing zombies. A guy on horseback could easily have maneuvered his way out of this one. Even if there were more zombies coming from the road pointed by the red arrow, he still could easily have gone to the field with the construction materials (also to Rick's right hand), where there also are no zombies whatsoever.

[MinionZombie]

:rolleyes:

Two different horses, two different scenarios - they both got skittish about the encroaching walkers (understandably so). The sequence had sod all to do with Rick's handling of the horse and all to do with the horse itself and how it got scared. Rick needed to be close to guide the herd, but the horse had enough of that shit and wanted out (even if it only moved to the bottom of the frame in the final shot ... fickle damn thing).

So yeah, nothing to do with Rick, everything to do with the horse itself. I doubt any of us would be calm or collected with two herds of flesh-munching zombies coming at us.

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, I’m not gonna blame a horse on that one. Shit happens and Rick paid for it. Easy as that.

Edit-

MZ that wasn’t directed at your post. I agree with what you’re saying. Horses don’t think like humans. Horse got scared, Rick gets knocked off.

I actually really like how that happened. Can’t see Ric getting bitten or taken out by a Savior.

[JDP]

:rolleyes:

Two different horses, two different scenarios - they both got skittish about the encroaching walkers (understandably so). The sequence had sod all to do with Rick's handling of the horse and all to do with the horse itself and how it got scared. Rick needed to be close to guide the herd, but the horse had enough of that shit and wanted out (even if it only moved to the bottom of the frame in the final shot ... fickle damn thing).

So yeah, nothing to do with Rick, everything to do with the horse itself. I doubt any of us would be calm or collected with two herds of flesh-munching zombies coming at us.

Another totally unconvincing excuse. We can see that Rick mishandled the situation and allowed the zombies to get closer until he finally lost control of the horse. The horse was not panicking before when Rick first mounted it and rode it, even with the zombies approaching it, and it is still not panicking right after throwing off Rick, it is in fact still around not running off to somewhere else, with the zombies still approaching the area. We can very safely assume that this horse has seen zombies up close before, and is now used to them. It doesn't easily panic and go running away like crazy when it sees them. Plus the point is that in the pilot episode it was done in a way we can believe the whole thing. Rick and the horse were truly trapped by the encroaching zombies. Here there is no such situation. We can plainly see at least two very easy ways out of it, with plenty of open space and no zombies around anywhere in sight. There is no reason for the horse to panic or Rick to have lost control of the situation.

[facestabber]

The interaction Rick had with Eugene, Carol and Daryl have my focus far greater than whether or not the horse scene was shot correctly. I hate the fact that Rick Grimes story is coming to an end. But I'm thankful that he is leaving on respectable and honorable terms. And that includes Maggie. She's blinded by hate, which I understand completely but Rick is trying to fulfill a bigger picture. As anticlimactic as some may say about him falling on rebar, Daryl Dixon knows he was doing that to spare everyone else. That was very selfless of Rick. Would I rather he ride away with Daryl? God damn right I do. But like Hershel, Rick risked his life for a greater good.

[Moon Knight]

The interaction Rick had with Eugene, Carol and Daryl have my focus far greater than whether or not the horse scene was shot correctly. I hate the fact that Rick Grimes story is coming to an end. But I'm thankful that he is leaving on respectable and honorable terms. And that includes Maggie. She's blinded by hate, which I understand completely but Rick is trying to fulfill a bigger picture. As anticlimactic as some may say about him falling on rebar, Daryl Dixon knows he was doing that to spare everyone else. That was very selfless of Rick. Would I rather he ride away with Daryl? God damn right I do. But like Hershel, Rick risked his life for a greater good.

From everything going on in these last few episodes that dude once again argues over the dumbest things.

The saddest moments are Rick’s interactions with his fellow survivors knowing those will be the last. Eugene, Carol, Dary, all good stuff. Rick risking his life was definitely the right choice. Whether he made the right choice of attempting to save the bridge we’ll just have to wait and see.

Also, anyone else notice the Walker way back in 9x1 that collapsed onto the rebar during the museum trip? The way Rick looked at it now has a lot more meaning behind it.

[JDP]

From everything going on in these last few episodes that dude once again argues over the dumbest things.

"Dumbest things"??? It is the sloppy way the most important character in the show is absurdly being written off! LOL!

[Moon Knight]

"Dumbest things"??? It is the sloppy way the most important character in the show is absurdly being written off! LOL!

Oh I ain’t just talking about this post or this section. You just love baiting people into arguments where you are never wrong.

[facestabber]

I think many people are on edge due to Lincolns departure. This show has passionate fans for sure. In 2010 us Romero/Zombie fans finally received validation and quality entertainment on tv. TWD is my favorite tv show in the history of my lifetime. I know it doesn't have the magic it once had, but it's certainly not because actors/directors aren't trying. So at times what is on the screen doesn't agree with us. So people complain. Not because they hate the show, but because they love the show and don't want it to go away. I am more apt to air my grievances here than to casual fans. I guess we all have different levels regarding attention to detail. Example for me is much of the gun play is terrible, but many here have no problem with it. I don't think this show has much more time left, so I am trying to just have fun with it.

[Moon Knight]

The gun play definitely is terrible. No doubt about that. As are the extras. I have many issues with the show and find many isssues sprinkled throughout. There is a reason it’s not on GoT levels of fan and critic appreciation. The budget and AMC are the root of those issues. I just decide not to focus on that and talk about what I do like about it; and this is a lot to like about it.

With that said, this season is really strong so far. Gimple should have done seasons 4-6 and Kang should have taken over since 7.

[MinionZombie]

Agreed on the scenes Rick had with other characters, such as Eugene. I think those affirmations will have resounding effects for all of them, help guide them back to the right course when times get tough and so on. Wise words to live by, so-to-speak.

Gripes such as the gunplay can be levelled at many shows, though, not just TWD. There are occasions where some some of those things do take the piss (e.g. Carl in the back of the supply truck with a bead on Negan - they just needed to tweak the scene by including a gun jam to throw a spanner in the works and it would have been fine and dandy), but the show gets so much right that the good dwarfs the bad by a considerable margin. I've also always believed that if someone is intent on focusing on the negative, especially the minute stuff, they're just going to spoil the experience for themselves. It's especially curious considering the shit that other shows or movies are allowed to get away with. Yes, we love the show, but part of love is acceptance.

Seasons 7 and 8 certainly had bigger flaws that were bedded down in more ethereal things like story structure, but they also played better on second viewings according to your own binge-viewing schedule (rather than being viewed week-by-week). If you look hard enough you'll find flaws in anything, and if you keep focusing on those flaws you'll ignore all the good stuff.

[shootemindehead]

Gripes such as the gunplay can be levelled at many shows, though, not just TWD. There are occasions where some some of those things do take the piss (e.g. Carl in the back of the supply truck with a bead on Negan - they just needed to tweak the scene by including a gun jam to throw a spanner in the works and it would have been fine and dandy), but the show gets so much right that the good dwarfs the bad by a considerable margin. I've also always believed that if someone is intent on focusing on the negative, especially the minute stuff, they're just going to spoil the experience for themselves. It's especially curious considering the shit that other shows or movies are allowed to get away with. Yes, we love the show, but part of love is acceptance.

Seasons 7 and 8 certainly had bigger flaws that were bedded down in more ethereal things like story structure, but they also played better on second viewings according to your own binge-viewing schedule (rather than being viewed week-by-week). If you look hard enough you'll find flaws in anything, and if you keep focusing on those flaws you'll ignore all the good stuff.

That's never a good excuse though, for anything, in fairness. Something being shite in one thing doesn't allow another thing to get away with it. TWD has a LOT about it that's open to criticism and I've given my fair share of harsh words toward it and plenty of other stuff too on here.

However, whinging about a bolting horse is just silly levels of non-criticism. I'm no hostler or anything, but I do know that horses can be spooked at the slightest thing and WILL buck if they don't want to go a certain way or do a certain thing. They can be freaked out by the slightest smell or sound, even ones that they "should" be used to. Professional showjumpers have been thrown from horses that they've ridden all of their lives, when their horse decided a jump wasn't for them. I've seen it happen first hand. While they are generally animals that will obey human commands, once trained, they still do have a mind of their own.

In the show, there's nothing wrong with how the horse reacts. She's clearly frightened by the zombies coming down the road - there's a swell in the music to indicate a heightened tension - and she doesn't want to go the way Rick wants her to go.

[JDP]

That's never a good excuse though, for anything, in fairness. Something being shite in one thing doesn't allow another thing to get away with it. TWD has a LOT about it that's open to criticism and I've given my fair share of harsh words toward it and plenty of other stuff too on here.

However, whinging about a bolting horse is just silly levels of non-criticism. I'm no hostler or anything, but I do know that horses can be spooked at the slightest thing and WILL buck if they don't want to go a certain way or do a certain thing. They can be freaked out by the slightest smell or sound, even ones that they "should" be used to. Professional showjumpers have been thrown from horses that they've ridden all of their lives, when their horse decided a jump wasn't for them. I've seen it happen first hand. While they are generally animals that will obey human commands, once trained, they still do have a mind of their own.

In the show, there's nothing wrong with how the horse reacts. She's clearly frightened by the zombies coming down the road - there's a swell in the music to indicate a heightened tension - and she doesn't want to go the way Rick wants her to go.

Trying to compare genuine horse accidents with what we saw in the episode is what truly is "silly levels of non-criticism". Being involved in such an incident myself when I was young, as you say the panicked horse just "bolts". I wasn't thrown off the horse (not for lack of trying on the horse's part) but it ran like crazy from what "spooked" it and there was no way I could stop the damn thing. The horse owners had to follow me on horseback and get a firm grip on the reins in order to stop it from running away. Here we see no such thing. The way this scene was shot is nowhere nearly as believable as the one in the pilot, that simple. In that one we could see why would the horse panic and why Rick couldn't do anything about it either. There truly was no way out of that one for the horse. It had nowhere to try to run to. The strange thing there would have been for the horse to not panic. But here we can plainly see the horse isn't panicked by the approaching zombies. It is quite calm all throughout the sequence, despite there being approaching zombies nearby all the time, and even after throwing Rick off it is still calmly hanging around the area, quite unconcerned by the slowly approaching zombies. It has plenty of open spaces to go to when the zombies do get close enough for it to actually panic and want to get away from them. We can see the horse isn't trying to get away at this point. The zombies are simply not close enough for it to panic and want to get away.

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Comments from the website I took that picture showing that Rick could easily have gotten out of that situation:

https://www.thisisinsider.com/walking-dead-will-rick-live-2018-10

"The thing that bothered us most is that when the final scene zooms out, you can see there was another road for Rick to travel down. Instead of panicking, why didn't he just run off with the horse down that other roadway? It seemed like a no brainer."

Spot on! It is in fact Rick, not the horse, who panics and eventually loses control of the situation. The horse was quite calm through the whole thing, and it is still quite calm after throwing Rick off. If anything, it is Rick's erratic actions when he sees the other approaching zombies that eventually confuse the horse and lead to his being thrown off. Absurd. Rick is a seasoned survivor who should have known better and remained more calm and in control of the situation, not easily panic by the appearance of more slowly approaching zombies.

[Moon Knight]

Sometimes I feel like I’m :deadhorse:

[MinionZombie]

Rick didn't want to go down that road for specific reasons - he doesn't want to sacrifice the bridge (and everything he's been striving to build post-AoW). Very simple and stated clearly in the episode. Daryl suggests leading the herd across the weak bridge as their combined weight will collapse it and wash the walkers away. Rick chose another plan.

What Rick wasn't anticipating, when he opted to spare the bridge and lead them elsewhere, was that the second herd (again, referenced earlier in the episode with Eugene talking about two distinct herds that hadn't - at that time - joined together) were bearing down from the road he wanted to go down (so it seems). It's a four-way junction, so the only options are either leading them to Alexandria (yeah, right) or leading them across the bridge - his plan goes out the window, he's trying to think around it, but the horse gets spooked and says "fuck this".

[shootemindehead]

Trying to compare genuine horse accidents with what we saw in the episode is what truly is "silly levels of non-criticism". Being involved in such an incident myself when I was young, as you say the panicked horse just "bolts". I wasn't thrown off the horse (not for lack of trying on the horse's part) but it ran like crazy from what "spooked" it and there was no way I could stop the damn thing. The horse owners had to follow me on horseback and get a firm grip on the reins in order to stop it from running away. Here we see no such thing. The way this scene was shot is nowhere nearly as believable as the one in the pilot, that simple. In that one we could see why would the horse panic and why Rick couldn't do anything about it either. There truly was no way out of that one for the horse. It had nowhere to try to run to. The strange thing there would have been for the horse to not panic. But here we can plainly see the horse isn't panicked by the approaching zombies. It is quite calm all throughout the sequence, despite there being approaching zombies nearby all the time, and even after throwing Rick off it is still calmly hanging around the area, quite unconcerned by the slowly approaching zombies. It has plenty of open spaces to go to when the zombies do get close enough for it to actually panic and want to get away from them. We can see the horse isn't trying to get away at this point. The zombies are simply not close enough for it to panic and want to get away.

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Comments from the website I took that picture showing that Rick could easily have gotten out of that situation:

https://www.thisisinsider.com/walking-dead-will-rick-live-2018-10

"The thing that bothered us most is that when the final scene zooms out, you can see there was another road for Rick to travel down. Instead of panicking, why didn't he just run off with the horse down that other roadway? It seemed like a no brainer."

Spot on! It is in fact Rick, not the horse, who panics and eventually loses control of the situation. The horse was quite calm through the whole thing, and it is still quite calm after throwing Rick off. If anything, it is Rick's erratic actions when he sees the other approaching zombies that eventually confuse the horse and lead to his being thrown off. Absurd. Rick is a seasoned survivor who should have known better and remained more calm and in control of the situation, not easily panic by the appearance of more slowly approaching zombies.


One word...bollocks.

[JDP]

One word...bollocks.

It certainly fits your absurd "replies" very well.

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Sometimes I feel like I’m :deadhorse:

In this case you should rather post a graphic of a horse beating a dead Rick, which is what the show is quite sloppily using to write off the main character, LOL!

[Moon Knight]

Rick didn't want to go down that road for specific reasons - he doesn't want to sacrifice the bridge (and everything he's been striving to build post-AoW). Very simple and stated clearly in the episode. Daryl suggests leading the herd across the weak bridge as their combined weight will collapse it and wash the walkers away. Rick chose another plan.

What Rick wasn't anticipating, when he opted to spare the bridge and lead them elsewhere, was that the second herd (again, referenced earlier in the episode with Eugene talking about two distinct herds that hadn't - at that time - joined together) were bearing down from the road he wanted to go down (so it seems). It's a four-way junction, so the only options are either leading them to Alexandria (yeah, right) or leading them across the bridge - his plan goes out the window, he's trying to think around it, but the horse gets spooked and says "fuck this".

Bro, he’s just trolling you. That’s what he does. Just ignore his post from now on.

[JDP]

Rick didn't want to go down that road for specific reasons - he doesn't want to sacrifice the bridge (and everything he's been striving to build post-AoW). Very simple and stated clearly in the episode. Daryl suggests leading the herd across the weak bridge as their combined weight will collapse it and wash the walkers away. Rick chose another plan.

What Rick wasn't anticipating, when he opted to spare the bridge and lead them elsewhere, was that the second herd (again, referenced earlier in the episode with Eugene talking about two distinct herds that hadn't - at that time - joined together) were bearing down from the road he wanted to go down (so it seems). It's a four-way junction, so the only options are either leading them to Alexandria (yeah, right) or leading them across the bridge - his plan goes out the window, he's trying to think around it, but the horse gets spooked and says "fuck this".

Not only has he two other roads to go to, as pointed out by the site (and they imply that one of these roads doesn't lead anywhere important and is the one he could easily have taken) but he also clearly has an open field to his right, with no zombies at all coming from that direction either. There is no need to steer the horse back 180 degrees and straight into one of the oncoming zombie herds (plainly absurd decision!), then turn 180 degrees back again, eventually confusing the horse, who naturally shakes this erratic rider off its back and then CALMLY goes its own way. We can plainly see that the horse is not in any hurry to get away from the SLOWLY approaching zombies, since it has A WHOLE BUNCH OF OPEN SPACES to go to whenever it feels like they are getting "too close for comfort". This horse is plainly not "spooked" by them. If it was, it would be running like hell away from them already.

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Bro, he’s just trolling you. That’s what he does. Just ignore his post from now on.

Look who's talking :rolleyes:

[Philly_SWAT]

My thoughts on the ending of TWD "The Obliged" episode...

As a general thought, a problem that a lot of television shows suffer from is that the writers make a firm decision of how they want a storyline to go, and then have the characters engage in discussions and actions that get from point A to point B in the story regardless of how logical and/or true to the characters those discussions or actions are. Also, the writers have random events happen that are just TOO convenient to be believable. TWD is more guilty over the entirety of its existence than a lot of other shows in this regard. I understand that writing for a television show is incredibly difficult, and both time and budget constraints can hamper even the best of writers. And I believe that it is also possible/likely that in a television series, even if the series is excellent, a few episodes here and there may not be up to the same quality level, and that even in an excellent episode of a series, there could be one or more things that are less then excellent. To state and acknowledge this does not mean I hate a show or think it sucks, it is just accepting the imperfection that most all shows have. When I think of the small list of "greatest TV shows ever", a big factor for me is how few of these inconsistencies they have that I am supposed to overlook as a viewer.

A couple of TV shows come to mind, "The Americans" and "The Wire", where there is very little opportunity to find things to nitpick about. Almost everything makes sense within the universe the TV show has created, and the actions of the characters ring true. I count those two shows on my personal list of "the greatest TV shows ever". I do not include TWD on that list, even though I have watched the show from the beginning, enjoyed the comics before there was a TV show, and the "zombie genre' is one of my personal favorites. There has been a lot to enjoy about TWD during its run, and a lot of things that, to me, were worthy of criticism. That doesnt mean that I am trolling others by pointing out things that I think could have been done better...they are just my honest opinion about things. One of my biggest gripes in TWD universe is the TV show "The Talking Dead". No one on that show EVER points out an obvious logic problem, a sloppy storyline, etc. It would be a more enjoyable show if it actually presented HONEST discussion about the shows, pointing out both good and bad, rather than only looking at everything though rose colored glasses.

As far as the episode at hand, there was some good conversations between characters on the show. The plight of Daryl and Rick fighting out of the pit was an interesting one. It still remains to be seen exactly how the Rick story will end, but I have no problem with a random accident being the cause of his ultimate demise. Certainly right now, in real life, unfortunate accidents cause the death of people every day. It only adds to the realism that such a random event could befall a TWD character. My main issue with the last scene of this episode was the way it was filmed. Watching it live, as soon as the camera moves up and zooms out I said to my girlfriend something like " what the fuck, there was all kinds of room there!" I am sure the writers made the decision to have two herds coming together and Rick gets thrown off the horse and falling on the rebar, and then they filmed that scene as best they could. It would have made more sense if it was a path up against a mountain or with an impenetrable thicket of forest blocking an avenue of escape for Rick, but that would make it harder to get cameras in good positions to get good shots for a tv show. Interesting camera angles and movements can add a lot to a tv show or a movie, and the ending of this episode was exactly that. Start close on Rick, impaled and unable to move,then pan up and show two herds moving in on him from two different directions. That is textbook good and interesting camera movement.

The problem is, to me, when that camera movement shows how much room there was available in areas where there were no zombies for Rick to move to. Rule number one...if there is a bunch of zombies in your vicinity, move quickly to a different vicinity where there are no zombies. Once safely out of range, if need be, take a second to come up with a plan of action of what to do next. Do not just mill around and wait for disaster to happen. But if there is no other vicinity to move to, and youre surrounded, Ok, youre toast. But when the camera pans out, it clearly shows an abundance of room for Rick to move out of the general vicinity. In fact, that was a fair amount of room right there near the rebar...at least move a couple of feet away from that potential danger, just in case. Rick falling exactly as needed to get impaled is already right at the edge of plausibility...oh right,he would fall RIGHT THERE?!?! But it is a tv show and SOMETHING has to happen, otherwise we are staring at a blank screen. So if you are going to do that, DO NOT right afterwards go to a wide shot showing how much room he had to get out of there. Me feeling this way does not mean I hate this new season..I dont. I think it has shown improvement over recent seasons (as easy as someone might be inclined to think that is to do). It doesnt mean I hate this episode, or that Rick's demise might be attributed to something as simple as an unfortunate fall. I dont. However, I do think that the way the scene was presented on screen could have been handled in a different, better way.

[JDP]

My thoughts on the ending of TWD "The Obliged" episode...

As a general thought, a problem that a lot of television shows suffer from is that the writers make a firm decision of how they want a storyline to go, and then have the characters engage in discussions and actions that get from point A to point B in the story regardless of how logical and/or true to the characters those discussions or actions are. Also, the writers have random events happen that are just TOO convenient to be believable. TWD is more guilty over the entirety of its existence than a lot of other shows in this regard. I understand that writing for a television show is incredibly difficult, and both time and budget constraints can hamper even the best of writers. And I believe that it is also possible/likely that in a television series, even if the series is excellent, a few episodes here and there may not be up to the same quality level, and that even in an excellent episode of a series, there could be one or more things that are less then excellent. To state and acknowledge this does not mean I hate a show or think it sucks, it is just accepting the imperfection that most all shows have. When I think of the small list of "greatest TV shows ever", a big factor for me is how few of these inconsistencies they have that I am supposed to overlook as a viewer.

A couple of TV shows come to mind, "The Americans" and "The Wire", where there is very little opportunity to find things to nitpick about. Almost everything makes sense within the universe the TV show has created, and the actions of the characters ring true. I count those two shows on my personal list of "the greatest TV shows ever". I do not include TWD on that list, even though I have watched the show from the beginning, enjoyed the comics before there was a TV show, and the "zombie genre' is one of my personal favorites. There has been a lot to enjoy about TWD during its run, and a lot of things that, to me, were worthy of criticism. That doesnt mean that I am trolling others by pointing out things that I think could have been done better...they are just my honest opinion about things. One of my biggest gripes in TWD universe is the TV show "The Talking Dead". No one on that show EVER points out an obvious logic problem, a sloppy storyline, etc. It would be a more enjoyable show if it actually presented HONEST discussion about the shows, pointing out both good and bad, rather than only looking at everything though rose colored glasses.

As far as the episode at hand, there was some good conversations between characters on the show. The plight of Daryl and Rick fighting out of the pit was an interesting one. It still remains to be seen exactly how the Rick story will end, but I have no problem with a random accident being the cause of his ultimate demise. Certainly right now, in real life, unfortunate accidents cause the death of people every day. It only adds to the realism that such a random event could befall a TWD character. My main issue with the last scene of this episode was the way it was filmed. Watching it live, as soon as the camera moves up and zooms out I said to my girlfriend something like " what the fuck, there was all kinds of room there!" I am sure the writers made the decision to have two herds coming together and Rick gets thrown off the horse and falling on the rebar, and then they filmed that scene as best they could. It would have made more sense if it was a path up against a mountain or with an impenetrable thicket of forest blocking an avenue of escape for Rick, but that would make it harder to get cameras in good positions to get good shots for a tv show. Interesting camera angles and movements can add a lot to a tv show or a movie, and the ending of this episode was exactly that. Start close on Rick, impaled and unable to move,then pan up and show two herds moving in on him from two different directions. That is textbook good and interesting camera movement.

The problem is, to me, when that camera movement shows how much room there was available in areas where there were no zombies for Rick to move to. Rule number one...if there is a bunch of zombies in your vicinity, move quickly to a different vicinity where there are no zombies. Once safely out of range, if need be, take a second to come up with a plan of action of what to do next. Do not just mill around and wait for disaster to happen. But if there is no other vicinity to move to, and youre surrounded, Ok, youre toast. But when the camera pans out, it clearly shows an abundance of room for Rick to move out of the general vicinity. In fact, that was a fair amount of room right there near the rebar...at least move a couple of feet away from that potential danger, just in case. Rick falling exactly as needed to get impaled is already right at the edge of plausibility...oh right,he would fall RIGHT THERE?!?! But it is a tv show and SOMETHING has to happen, otherwise we are staring at a blank screen. So if you are going to do that, DO NOT right afterwards go to a wide shot showing how much room he had to get out of there. Me feeling this way does not mean I hate this new season..I dont. I think it has shown improvement over recent seasons (as easy as someone might be inclined to think that is to do). It doesnt mean I hate this episode, or that Rick's demise might be attributed to something as simple as an unfortunate fall. I dont. However, I do think that the way the scene was presented on screen could have been handled in a different, better way.

Nicely written. Indeed, you and I have no problem seeing that this scene was shot in a way that is just too forceful on the viewer. They are asking us to make too many concessions: Rick doesn't see the obvious plenty of possible escape routes, Rick turns the horse in the direction of one of the oncoming zombie herds instead of all the other empty spaces he has available, Rick gets thrown off very "coincidentally" on the rebars, of all places... Overall, the somewhat similar thrown-off-the-horse scene in the pilot episode was better executed. There we could see that Rick could not have maneuvered the horse out of that situation. He and the horse were truly trapped by the oncoming zombies.

Having said that: the show-makers likely need for Rick to have at least one escape route, otherwise his end will be to be killed and devoured by the zombies. They probably want a different ending for him. So Rick must somehow escape this situation in the end, albeit badly -possibly even mortally- wounded. So they probably needed to leave one exit left for him. But they could have done this in a better manner, one that makes us believe that Rick did not have many options, just one, and which he was reluctant to take: going to the bridge. We know from the previous exchanges between Rick and Daryl that this is the only thing in Rick's mind that is totally straight regarding the oncoming zombies: he does not want to take them to the bridge. Daryl tells him that "there is no other way", but Rick answers "I will find another way". This means that Rick is willing to improvise what he will do with the zombies. With such a mindset, it is obvious that Rick is willing to consider any of the other roads other than the one that leads to the bridge. We can clearly see, then, that he had two other roads to take, plus an open field to his right. There is no reason for him to go all bonkers and not know what to do when the other zombies show up in one of these available roads. He still had two very obvious options left to lead all those zombies to besides the bridge.

[MinionZombie]

One little thing I really liked in this episode was Michonne's little montage - not only because of the character detail that it had as she wrestled with warrior life vs civil leadership life, but because it displayed a passage of time (something like a week, I'd reckon), which we got so rarely during Gimple's tenure as showrunner. We could have really done with such a montage, for instance, in the early days of Alexandria being under the thumb of the Saviours post-Lucille/Abraham/Glenn, because as it stands it feels like they recover from the emotional trauma a bit too quick in some regards ... the oppression of the Saviours felt a bit rushed at that early point. We didn't need to see it drawn out for months and months (albeit enough time to really make an impact), but some more of those little 'time passing montages' would have aided the storytelling.

So anyway - it's good to see Angela Kang & Co bringing them back! :)

[Moon Knight]

One little thing I really liked in this episode was Michonne's little montage - not only because of the character detail that it had as she wrestled with warrior life vs civil leadership life, but because it displayed a passage of time (something like a week, I'd reckon), which we got so rarely during Gimple's tenure as showrunner. We could have really done with such a montage, for instance, in the early days of Alexandria being under the thumb of the Saviours post-Lucille/Abraham/Glenn, because as it stands it feels like they recover from the emotional trauma a bit too quick in some regards ... the oppression of the Saviours felt a bit rushed at that early point. We didn't need to see it drawn out for months and months (albeit enough time to really make an impact), but some more of those little 'time passing montages' would have aided the storytelling.

So anyway - it's good to see Angela Kang & Co bringing them back! :)

The slow passage of time during Gimple’s run is scary.