TWD 9x08 "Evolution" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 9x08 "Evolution" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
Written by: David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick


A small rescue mission braves a dangerous herd in their hunt for a missing comrade, only to discover a surprising threat that could doom them all.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/TWD-908-05.jpg

[Zombie Snack]

creepy photo

[DayoftheZ]

I'm back to being excited for the new episodes again, bless you Angela Kang. Monday can't come soon enough and its the damn mid-season break already.

[MinionZombie]

I'm back to being excited for the new episodes again, bless you Angela Kang. Monday can't come soon enough and its the damn mid-season break already.

This front half of the season has flown by, hasn't it? And with all that's been going on it already feels like we've had at least three 'premiere/finale' style episodes in terms of their grandeur and importance. Lovely stuff - hopefully Kang & Co can keep it up in the back half as well. :thumbsup:

[Moon Knight]

The creepy atmosphere in this episode is off the charts. This is the kind of stuff I’ve been asking for!

[DayoftheZ]

This front half of the season has flown by, hasn't it? And with all that's been going on it already feels like we've had at least three 'premiere/finale' style episodes in terms of their grandeur and importance. Lovely stuff - hopefully Kang & Co can keep it up in the back half as well. :thumbsup:

I have every faith that the new team can keep this up. Just wish Andrew Lincoln could have been a part of it as all. Seeing the ratings is a shame but the feedback on social media has been much more positive than the last couple under Gimble.


The creepy atmosphere in this episode is off the charts. This is the kind of stuff I’ve been asking for!

Pictures like the above are a living dead fans wet dream. This type of show should creep you out like the great dead films Romero gave us.

Really excited for this one having seen the sneak peek.!!

[Moon Knight]

From what I’ve seen as well that scene is gonna be intense.

Hold up just watched!

Damn, those scenes were great. Not happy with the death but it was really well done. When that walker ducked and stabbed Jesus, damn! Then he whispered into his ear as he died. F*ck.

[Zombie Snack]

wow, great episode. The creep/horror factor was back in a big way. I totally did not see the death coming, but damn it was done well. The entire cemetary scene was spot on, I still am curious what the beef is between michonne and the others.
Parts of this episode had me comparing it to some of GARs better work.

[MinionZombie]

Yep, another groovy episode and I definitely didn't see the death of Jesus coming ... kind of a bummer, really, I dug that character (but I suppose this opens the doors for Maggie's return as Hilltop is now without a leader, aside from Deputy Tara anyway).

The stuff with Henry is all good and interesting, although it does make me wonder what it would have been like seeing Carl in that storyline ... but we won't ever see that (thanks, Gimple :rolleyes: ) ... ... but even still, our new older Henry is doing a fine job and I liked that he realised how his move to Hilltop to apprentice blacksmithing, being away from home at the Kingdom as-it-were, was a big move in the end. It's like going away to college for the zombie apocalypse. :)

All the Whisperer stuff was very cool and the creep factor was high. Excellent use of the horror aesthetic, too, what with the spooky barn and creepy graveyard. First impressions of the Whisperers on TV is good, so I'm really hoping they can improve upon what was a rather mixed bag in the comics. The added horror vibe is definitely helping ... 8 or so years deep into the zombie apocalypse you're likely going to stumble across some messed up folks.

Also - Negan on the loose ... hmmm! What will he do? Maybe get a proper shower or catch some rays or sprawl out in a king size bed. :p

[shootemindehead]

Have to admit, I'm just not feeling it any more for this show. With Rick going, the central character is no longer around and it's just a bunch of supports now, even if some of them rank as my favourites, like Carol or Jesus (who's now also gone :rolleyes: ). But, the audience has followed Rick's story for nearly a decade, not anyone else's. It's been the events happening to Rick Grimes and the folk that surround HIM. So, there's a definite vacuum going on that's impossible to deny.

Sure, there are decent set pieces, like last night's graveyard scene, the make up is still top notch, and it's been ok in general. But, it's not been enough to lift my waning interest and it's a show that's lost its way, in many respects, largely because of Lincoln's jumping ship.

I dunno, maybe it will improve in the arse end of S09. But, at the moment, I just don't really care. I feel like I'm watching just to watch now and that's not a good sign.

:(

[Moon Knight]

I got the original story with Rick and Carl in the comics. Wish Rick was still around but I’m alright with something a little different as long as the quality stays strong.

[DayoftheZ]

Excellent episode, really enjoyed it. As others have said the creep factor was well done and even the whispers seemed well executed .

I have to admit I had a tantrum when Jesus died, but then I realised that this is what the show has been missing, shock deaths.

I can accept the concerns about there being no more Carl or Rick especially Rick if I am honest. I can only imagine Andrew Lincoln in this new world it would have been great.

That said in Rick's absence we have some space for Michonne, Daryl, Aaron, Eugene and Gabriel to shine and they really are.

[facestabber]

I’m not sure how I made peace with Ricks absence. I think the major factor I’m still here is because he wasn’t killed off. There is hope in my world regarding Rick. I think this would be better with him in it 100%. But and it’s a big but.....I am enjoying this. This episode was just creepy. The characters are experiencing fear again and I love it. The Whisperers are a legitimate threat. And think their timing works. What I mean by that is if they showed up a year into the apocalypse I think a heard of 140 or 300(Walker/whisperer mix) would have been easier to deal with. We saw belt fed machine guns, RPG’s, grenade launcher and plenty of ammo to boot. Those weapons against a bunched up heard would have done enough damage to force the whisperer element to flee, revealing themselves.

Bummer about Jesus. Just a god guy and good character that I believe should have been allowed to continue. But alas Jesus is no more. The manner he left was very well constructed. An extremely skilled warrior killed by an unsuspecting foe.

Really want to hear the story about Michonne because as it stands she is coming off very stubborn. I’m glad Carol called her out about losing kids and moving forward.

I’m not really feeling the Henry character or storyline. That may just be bitterness manifesting over Carl’s treatment. I was never high on chandlers acting but he would do far better than this Mintz kid.

I also wanted to hate Siddiq but I don’t. He’s a good guy and I enjoy how level headed he is.

[Moon Knight]

Using Jesus as a death in order to introduce the Whisperers was genius. Tom wanted out and this was a perfect way to handle it. Have your best warrior get killed by a hidden foe means anyone can get killed by them. (Lol except Daryl) Jesus was kicking ass and feeling cocky until that one walker moved unpredictably. That was his end. Awesome.

I agree about Henry, definitely the weakest part. But to me Carl or Henry, that was the part of the story I never cared for. With that said, Henry’s actor isn’t doing too bad. Chandler wasn’t that good.

[MinionZombie]

TWD has always been an ensemble show, but before it was an ensemble with Rick as the leader, now it's just an ensemble show ... and I don't say "just" in a derogatory manner. As has been said, I've been surprisingly okay with Rick's exit, helped in no small part by the fact that the character is still alive and we will see him again (as long as we get him back on the show at some point in the future, with a story that makes sense for keeping him away for so long in the intervening time, then I'll be happy).

I think this Mintz kid is doing fine - the moment where he realises that this has been a big decision as Carol sheds a tear and moseys on back to the Kingdom sold me on it.

Sad to see Jesus go, but aye, the manner of his end worked well ... that apparent walker suddenly moving like a skilled warrior, with the sort of fluidity that Jesus had in combat, was quite appropriate in some ways and indeed: a shock death. Wasn't expecting it at all.

For a show to rediscover its mojo in its ninth season is quite something. We're only half way there and it feels like we've had a season's worth of material already and I'm hungry for more. :cool:

[facestabber]

Had they decided to kill Rick I think Jesus death would have really worked. It really was unsuspecting, especially for the characters. They’ve been killing Walkers for 10 years so every character would not anticipate that.

[shootemindehead]

TWD has always been an ensemble show, but before it was an ensemble with Rick as the leader, now it's just an ensemble show ...

Regardless of his (very human) flaws, we woke up with Rick, we've been with Rick every step of the way. We've seen other people join HIM. We seen antagonists battle mainly against HIM. The "ensemble" gathered around HIM and, frankly, there's not a single person on the show now that can fill that gap. Not Michonne, not Daryl, not Carol. They are all secondary and tertiary characters, designed as an extension of the main character that the audience has "identified" with, for better or for worse. We've experienced the world of TWD largely through HIS eyes, not his sidekicks.

The fact that he's no longer there is a huge blow to the series and there's no point in glossing over that Mini, just because the first couple of episodes without him have been ok.

Andrew Lincoln has really put the producers of this show in a quandary.

[MinionZombie]

While I agree it's a big change and I'd still prefer to have him on the show (or at least have still had Carl there for bloodline continuity), the quality of season 9 has thus far been very good and has greatly exceeded my expectations. Sure, we'll have to see how the show handles the lack of Rick from here on out, but the six year time jump does help things as the world looks very different to what it looked like before, so we've at least got this sense of separation already.

Now, I've only read as far as Volume 30 of the trade paperbacks, but post AoW Rick as a character in the comics has been fairly sidelined for the most part (not helped by having one arm and a gammy leg). He's had bits of business here and there, but has mostly been confined to Alexandria and more of an 'office job' as-it-were, so there wasn't particularly strong material coming for the character IIRC. Of course, yeah, they could have written new stuff and made improvements to his storyline from the comics, but so far they're handling it surprisingly well.

I know what you mean about needing a leader and I agree with the 'we woke up with Rick' viewpoint - I've said that very same thing myself, and certainly did after news hit that Lincoln was departing the show ... however, I've been pleasantly surprised with how the show has felt refreshed under the leadership of Angela Kang.

[Moon Knight]

In this point in the story Rick isn’t really needed. The biggest stories in the comics now don’t even involve him. His last great moment came during this Whisperer arc imo.

In fact he is more like a background character to me while Michonne is more the focal point.

Losing TV Rick sucks but I’m still enjoying the show more than I did the last couple years.

So knowing what’s coming ahead makes it easier to move on from Andy’s era.

[Zombie Snack]

I also hated the idea of rick leaving the show but I honestly have not really been affected so far. I think the job Kang has done with the show has helped alot. If only she had been at the helm a year or two earlier, who knows how things would have played out.

[facestabber]

I certainly understand anyone that loses interest because of Ricks absence. Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most. There are some characters I love on the show. Granted not as much as I love Rick Grimes. So I’m watching because: Rick is alive and at some point will make an appearance(maybe at the end) which I feel will be a huge payoff. This is the ZA with some quality actors/acting and amazing makeup/effects. Angela Kang has been doing a stellar job. I only wish she’d taken over during season 7. Truthfully I’m shocked that I’m cool with a Rickless show. When I first heard about his departure I was pissed to hell and back. The loss is enormous but I think there is some quality left and mostly hope that Rick will eventually reunite with Judith, Michonne, is unknown son and for me Daryl.

[Moon Knight]

I certainly understand anyone that loses interest because of Ricks absence. Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most. There are some characters I love on the show. Granted not as much as I love Rick Grimes. So I’m watching because: Rick is alive and at some point will make an appearance(maybe at the end) which I feel will be a huge payoff. This is the ZA with some quality actors/acting and amazing makeup/effects. Angela Kang has been doing a stellar job. I only wish she’d taken over during season 7. Truthfully I’m shocked that I’m cool with a Rickless show. When I first heard about his departure I was pissed to hell and back. The loss is enormous but I think there is some quality left and mostly hope that Rick will eventually reunite with Judith, Michonne, is unknown son and for me Daryl.

I feel the same way. I think Rick’s departure being leaked was the best thing that could have happened.

[MinionZombie]

I feel the same way. I think Rick’s departure being leaked was the best thing that could have happened.

'Leaked' eh? :D

But yeah, you have all the shock and the aggro initially, then it got addressed officially at Comic-Con by Lincoln - but in a way that gave you a little bit of hope (instead of all the bullshit clickbait headlines that were flurrying about the internet at the time), and then you go into the new season knowing full well and having already kind of accepted it, so there's little to really distract from Kang & Co's storytelling.

It was a canny move. I don't think it really did them any favours advertising wise, but I think for those who have stuck with the show it was a good move for the aforemenionted reasons.

[shootemindehead]

Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most

This is what everyone was watching the show for, whether they liked Grimes or not, or want to admit it or even know it. A fiction, generally, needs a central character and most, if not all, of the events happening in that fiction are impacted on or by that central character. Without that grounding, the story can become floaty and uninteresting.

And even in ensemble pieces, there is usually (nearly always) a central figure for the audience to hook onto.

In 'The Walking Dead', that figure was Rick Grimes.

I don't want to labour the point here, but I just can't see a satisfactory solution to this problem for the show. Trying to push Michonne to the fore isn't going to work, she's just not that interesting and Daryl is the very definition of support guy. A grunty wingman, prepper fantasy, and nothing more. He's the human embodiment of the dog who's now his sidekick.

And while the first couple of episodes have been ok, and the genius stroke was made of not actually killing Grimes off, it's extremely rare that a TV show can continue on for long after the central character of that show leaves and past precedent bares that out. In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of 'Midsomer Murders' that has done it successfully. But, they could have replaced Barnaby with a robot and the old ladies that watch that show would still have tuned in. :D

Most, simply limp on until the plug is pulled as viewer figures drop, and the viewer figures have been dropping for the show for some time.

Anyway, as I said, I don't want to labour the point, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

[Moon Knight]

For those who saw the preview for next year, damn, Beta looks like an absolute beast.

[MinionZombie]

I wouldn't say Daryl is 'just' a prepper fantasy or sidekick as he's had his own journey going on. Not of the same level as Rick, but he's gone from the subjugated little brother of a drug-addled racist from an abusive family and social background, a guy whose outlook on life was quite limited and guided by lesser minds and attitudes, to a man who can stand and act on his own two feet and contribute to the group while being welcomed into said group as an equal. Rick regarding Daryl as his brother was a huge thing for him. In recent seasons (i.e. 7 and 8) he was shafted more to just grunting a lot, but he's really shown much more independence in these recent episodes while staying true to his kinda lone wolf vibe.

[Moon Knight]

I wouldn't say Daryl is 'just' a prepper fantasy or sidekick as he's had his own journey going on. Not of the same level as Rick, but he's gone from the subjugated little brother of a drug-addled racist from an abusive family and social background, a guy whose outlook on life was quite limited and guided by lesser minds and attitudes, to a man who can stand and act on his own two feet and contribute to the group while being welcomed into said group as an equal. Rick regarding Daryl as his brother was a huge thing for him. In recent seasons (i.e. 7 and 8) he was shafted more to just grunting a lot, but he's really shown much more independence in these recent episodes while staying true to his kinda lone wolf vibe.

Yeah, I’m digging this return to form for Daryl this season. Plus he has Dog.

[Neil]

That reveal at the end got a big OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! From me!

Nice stuff!

[Moon Knight]

That reveal at the end got a big OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! From me!

Nice stuff!

Very nicely done!

[MinionZombie]

For those who saw the preview for next year, damn, Beta looks like an absolute beast.

I just scampered off to have a gander at that preview ... beast, indeed!

From the preview:
When he's tossing Daryl around like a rag doll - bloody nora! :stunned:

[Moon Knight]

I just scampered off to have a gander at that preview ... beast, indeed!

From the preview:
When he's tossing Daryl around like a rag doll - bloody nora! :stunned:

I’m telling you, they have a chance to really improve this story arc and so far it’s already better. Fingers crossed!