TWD 9x15 "The Calm Before" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 9x15 "The Calm Before" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Laura Belsey
Written by: Geraldine Inoa & Channing Powell


The fair at the Kingdom is underway, with all four communities coming together in celebration for the first time in years; while some pacts are renewed, other deals will come at a much steeper price.

https://dailydead.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/TWD-915-28.jpg

[facestabber]

My goodness. Well we all know Moon has to be the happiest guy here considering the shows choice of victims.

[Moon Knight]

My goodness. Well we all know Moon has to be the happiest guy here considering the shows choice of victims.

You have no idea.

[Zombie Snack]

Well Alpha showed Daryl she has an ace up her sleeve if the communities want to fight.

[MinionZombie]

Holy shit!!! That was a great episiode.

The subversion of expectations and the red herrings, but also the destructive nature of Alpha's actions (notice how many of the kills split people apart - friends, partners). It was good that they even managed to properly humanise background characters or folks just introduced (e.g. the cold open folks - we get to see a snippet of their lives over a long period of time, and it plays in beautifully with Alpha's infiltration of The Kingdom what with the hair and the clothing).

I was genuinely totally gripped by this episode, my mind racing to try and figure out who was going to get it. I was thinking, over the last few weeks, that those killed would be different to the comics - particularly Ezekiel - as with the disappearance of Rick we'd have been pretty light on 'strong male leader' characters, so I figured he'd survive this time around unlike in the comics. I was thinking Rosita would go as per the comics, but the switcheroo and have it be Tara was gutting (not that I wanted Rosita to die, but I was prepared for that to happen).

Killing Henry was a real surprise, too! The way they handled it, cutting back and forth between the horrors slowly being revealed and how it happened (in part) being show at the same time was superb editing. Daryl rushing in to stop Carol from seeing it ... heartbreaking stuff, but sooooooooooo good!

Henry, Tara, Enid, Ozzy, DJ, Addy, Tammy, Frankie, Alec, and Rodney

The Highwaymen were only in it briefly, but they made an impact (particularly Ozzy), and even with the bit-parters they managed to find ways to make it have an impact, which goes back to what I was saying about the devestation that Alpha's choice of victims brought.

Henry - huge impact on Ezekiel, Carol, Daryl, and Lydia.
Tara - another long-timer, another leader for Hilltop gone (leaving them in a weak and troubled place).
Enid - Alden's partner, a caregiver (with Sidiq).
Tammy - leaves behind her husband and an adopted child. She's the only kill that matches the same sequence in he comic books.
Addy - she wasn't in it too much, but I really liked her and thought she was pretty sweet, so there's tragedy in such an innocent person dying.
Rodney and Frankie - again, a little partnership of two friends (in two instances) is torn asunder.

Man! What an episode!

A comparison of deaths on the show versus the comics:

https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/2019/03/24/the-walking-dead-spoilers-which-characters-are-killed-pikes-comics-whisperers-915-calm-before/
Among the slain were Highwaymen Ozzy (Angus Sampson) and Alek (Jason Kirkpatrick), former Savior DJ (Matt Mangum), former Sanctuary member Frankie (Elyse Nicole DuFour), and Tammy Rose (Brett Butler), Rodney (Joe Ando Hirsh), and Addy (Kelley Mack) of the Hilltop. Unlike the victims in the books, who were abducted or otherwise lured away from a community fair before their murders, Tara, Enid, and the others are seen in flashback engaging in an ultimately futile last stand against an overwhelming number of Whisperers before their deaths.

The Walking Dead issue #144 sees Rick Grimes, accompanied by son Carl and recently rescued former Whisperer Lydia, stumble across the horrific display erected by Lydia’s mother, Alpha. They’re then joined by Michonne, Dante, and Andrea, who asks, “What do we do now?”

Alpha claims one dozen victims in the books, including Michonne’s once-lover King Ezekiel, a pregnant Rosita, and Olivia, Josh, and Erin of Alexandria, Amber of the Sanctuary, Luke, and the Hilltop’s Ken, Larry, Carson, Oscar, and Tammy Rose.

In the show, the above minor characters are either long dead (Olivia, Ken, Carson, Erin), little-seen (Amber), or uninvolved (Josh, Larry). Ozzy, Alek, and DJ are show-only creations, as are Enid, Henry, and Tara (who shares no resemblance to a Savior named Tara in the books). Rodney and Addy are also exclusive to the show, with the latter inspired in part by Anna, a teen who had a crush on Carl, Henry’s comic book counterpart.

This leaves Tammy — who had recently adopted an abandoned Whisperer baby with husband Earl (John Finn) — as the sole character to be piked in both the comic and the television series. Surprisingly, Luke (Dan Fogler) was spared his comic book fate, leaving the group of Yumiko, Magna (Nadia Hilker), Kelly (Angel Theory), and Connie (Lauren Ridloff) in tact — for now.


And now winter is coming!

Carol vs Alpha - it's gotta happen now. Come on Carol!!! :hyper:


You have no idea.

:lol::lol::lol:

A choice new avatar there, too. :D

[Zombie Snack]

I know the communities will fight back and want to destroy the whisperers, to avenge deaths of their friends, but that seems like a daunting task with the knowledge the whisperers have a horde of thousands of zombies they can unleash on them. Eager to see how the communities come together to do battle with these skin wearing sickos. It should be epic.

[facestabber]

I know many people expect Carol to Hulk up and go Terminus mode again. But I could see her just completely detaching. A person can only take so much. If there ever was a point Carol could parallel her comic story this could be the beginning. Either path I could understand though I expect the show needs Carol to Terminus.

Daryl. His popularity has made him Cool to hate to a growing segment. But I tell ya, I continue to like and respect him. His core and inner code is honerable as hell. He isn’t a social butterfly but he cares. He doesn’t complain about pain but rather tries to shield others from pain. Daryl has just as much reason to break down at the pikes, as he’s known several of those people for years.

I love Samantha Morton’s portrayal of Alpha. Scary as hell. She has now rivaled the gov as bonifide psychopath. Ruthless.

[Moon Knight]

Thank you, Angela Kang! My girl lives.

Yeah I really loved the episode too. I think it was a smart idea keeping Ezekiel alive after losing Rick, Maggie, and Jesus all in the same season. It’s a shame we lost Enid, though. That one was truly surprising.

I been calling for Tara over Rosita for the longest time but didn’t think they would do it, especially considering how Rosita and her quartet’s storyline has been going. Now where do we go from here? Freakin’ excited for Rosita but I’ll admit, gonna miss having Tara’s bounce around.

They were telegraphing so many comic deaths but then went ahead and flipped the entire script with the exception of poor Tammy Rose, and boy did she put on a fight. They all did.

Also, they even made me think poor Dog was getting it too by leaving him in The Kingdom. Bastards.

As MZ said, Daryl crying out to Carol was heartbreaking. And as Facestabber said, Daryl is just awesome. I was turned off from him during recent seasons but Angela Kang brought him back.

People will be happy Henry was killed but I was saddened by his early demise. He did start all this and it makes sense he would have to pay that receipt. Now we will never see him and Morgan reunite. Morgan would have been proud.

Looks like winter is here next week. How awesome is that? Love this season.

[MinionZombie]

I know many people expect Carol to Hulk up and go Terminus mode again. But I could see her just completely detaching. A person can only take so much. If there ever was a point Carol could parallel her comic story this could be the beginning. Either path I could understand though I expect the show needs Carol to Terminus.

Daryl. His popularity has made him Cool to hate to a growing segment. But I tell ya, I continue to like and respect him. His core and inner code is honerable as hell. He isn’t a social butterfly but he cares. He doesn’t complain about pain but rather tries to shield others from pain. Daryl has just as much reason to break down at the pikes, as he’s known several of those people for years.

I love Samantha Morton’s portrayal of Alpha. Scary as hell. She has now rivaled the gov as bonifide psychopath. Ruthless.

Carol's character in the comics was, to be blunt, pretty naff. Comics Carol was kinda annoying and lame. She's a huge distance away from TV Show Carol, who is friggin' awesome - not just in terms of her heroic moments, but also her emotional core. Melissa McBride has absolutely owned that role with poise and panache and crafted one of the greatest TWD characters ever - so I can't really see her going the way of Comics Carol. TV Show Carol is an entirely different beast.

Yep - Morton is breathing a whole new sense of life and depth into Alpha that was never really there in the comics. I was always a bit 'meh' about The Whisperers storyline in the comics - but holy shit have Kang & Co ditched the crap bits and heightened the good parts, and then the likes of Morton come along and raise the bar even higher.

It was a nice little flip in this episode, as well, as Alpha did what our guys did a few episodes ago and infiltrated The Kingdom by donning their guise, in this instance "Debbie". All the while she's wearing someone else's scalp!!! Really damn creepy. I had to go back and flick through my volumes of the comics to see if Alpha infiltrated The Kingdom - and she did - although it was kinda minimal. Here on the show they really made the most of it from the cold open to being there during the fair to her reveal to Daryl of her walker army (in the comics she reveals that to Rick).


Thank you, Angela Kang! My girl lives.

Yeah I really loved the episode too. I think it was a smart idea keeping Ezekiel alive after losing Rick, Maggie, and Jesus all in the same season. It’s a shame we lost Enid, though. That one was truly surprising.

I been calling for Tara over Rosita for the longest time but didn’t think they would do it, especially considering how Rosita and her quartet’s storyline has been going. Now where do we go from here? Freakin’ excited for Rosita but I’ll admit, gonna miss having Tara’s bounce around.

They were telegraphing so many comic deaths but then went ahead and flipped the entire script with the exception of poor Tammy Rose, and boy did she put on a fight. They all did.

Also, they even made me think poor Dog was getting it too by leaving him in The Kingdom. Bastards.

As MZ said, Daryl crying out to Carol was heartbreaking. And as Facestabber said, Daryl is just awesome. I was turned off from him during recent seasons but Angela Kang brought him back.

People will be happy Henry was killed but I was saddened by his early demise. He did start all this and it makes sense he would have to pay that receipt. Now we will never see him and Morgan reunite. Morgan would have been proud.

Looks like winter is here next week. How awesome is that? Love this season.

1) It was a shame that Enid didn't really get much to do this season, especially in the back half, but them's the breaks of having a huge ensemble cast. There just ain't time for everyone. In an interview she expressed her frustration with that, but that it kinda felt like her character had run out of story anyway.

2) Yeah. I've really liked Tara throughout her stint on the show, and especially her sense of humour - so hopefully we won't lose too much of that, as her little comments and outlooks on situations were always a pleasant little balancing act to keep things fresh and fun.

3) Speaking of Dog - I loved the moment when Daryl chose Connie to look after Dog. It was a simple but sweet moment, and I really want to see more of Daryl and Connie together. It'd be interesting, too, if Daryl could maybe even skirt towards something romantic with Connie, as that's something so outside of Daryl's wheelhouse it'd be interesting to see how that would develop or even work with a character like him. He's grown so much over the course of the show.

I think Daryl was underused during the Saviours arc. Gimple just reduced him to mostly grunting and looking cool, whereas he's at his best when he's getting some emotional stuff to chew on as well - there's a lot of depth to that character and that's what makes him work. Looking cool is just the surface of it all. There's a lot going on inside that character and I've loved seeing that brought out again thanks, once more, to Kang & Co.

4) The loss of Henry is an interesting one. Carl hasn't had loads of good stuff to really do in the comics for a long time now, so it was curious to see his story get shunted over to Henry, and in a way it's almost respectful to let that side of things die now that The Whisperers storyline is well underway. Interestingly, this is the third member of the Lintz family to appear on the show (and get killed off of it!).

5) Winter on TWD. Finally! :lol: There were a few seasons there which all took place in a small chunk of time, but it was funny to see blazing heat in the first half of a season give way to autumn chills and wool-lined jackets in the back half, only for the blazing heat to return in the next season! :lol: It's good to see we'll be getting to see a bit of something else, although with Season 10 starting to shoot at the usual time, surely there'll be a time jump again, perhaps to spring?

...

Massive walker herd ... I forsee communities being inundated ... ... perhaps Negan will find an opportunity to prove his worth?

[Moon Knight]

I can really see Negan getting released from his cell now. I love every scene he’s in. Alpha also killed Frankie, Negan won’t be happy about that.

As far as winter on TWD- it’s about damn time. I’m looking forward to walkers in the snow and I just know Nicotero has some cool bits in store for us.

Daryl having Connie look after Dog was really nice. I’m digging their relationship.

There is a character coming up that can fill Tara’s light hearted and quirky role, so I’m sure that void will be filled next season.

Edit: I see MZ can appreciate my avatar update. :D

[MinionZombie]

I can really see Negan getting released from his cell now. I love every scene he’s in. Alpha also killed Frankie, Negan won’t be happy about that.

There is a character coming up that can fill Tara’s light hearted and quirky role, so I’m sure that void will be filled next season.

Edit: I see MZ can appreciate my avatar update.

1) Was Frankie one of Negan's wives? I'd forgotten about them! I haven't re-watched Season 8 yet, and with the ensemble cast being so large it's tough trying to remember everyone (and their names!) :p

2) You mean the one with the pink wrap? Hopefully, if she does appear on the show, they'll write her so she's not so full-on and find a talented actress to ground her while maintaining the sense of humour.

3) :lol::lol::lol: Yes, very appropriate. :D

[facestabber]

Without spoiler tags from comic Carol I was referring to a specific act she does that is a WTF moment. Not the boringness of her comic role.

I agree with ya moon about Zeke. I think his death would have been far more impactful BUT another main departure could prove devastating. The loss of Glenn Rick Carl and Maggie have created a loss of viewership. A tier 2 level death or two may have helped the scene. Most of the heads I empathized with but wasn’t gonna lose sleep over. Father G, Eugene and I won’t mention Rosita for Moons sake. Hahahaha. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying I wanted those deaths. I just think fans have more attachment to them but not at main cast level.

I like Enid. Not sure why but I always have. JSS. I guess because I have daughters I would hope they would JSS like Enid did.

I have been vocal about Tara in the past. I don’t hate her but just wished she could have died rather than Tyrese, Sasha, Bob etc. seeing her head on the pike did make me sad. She was a good person.

Is winter a homage to GOT final season????

[Moon Knight]

Frankie was indeed one of Negan’s wives, MZ. That’s why they had Eguene looking for her, so we could remember who she was.

I also know what Facestabber was getting at with comic Carol. That would be tragic.

MZ- Yeah, that’s her. I really like that character, a bit over the top, yes, but with someone who calls herself “The Princess of Pittsburgh”, any Romero fan can appreciate that haha. I’m sure she will be toned down. Look at how much more believable Ezekiel was written and portrayed.

[JDP]

Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own?

[MinionZombie]

Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own?

I'd imagine she had a few tagalongs lurking about helping facilitate her plan, but she would have also been getting people alone, which would have been easy enough with the vast majority of people all congregated in the same area(s). Find a way of getting someone alone - then pounce.

However, we don't see those mechanics in action as it would just take too long, for one, and for two, it'd not really fit into the big reveal sequence at the end. The emotion and the revelation of the scene is what's important to get across to the viewer, whereas the literal how of it isn't.

[JDP]

I'd imagine she had a few tagalongs lurking about helping facilitate her plan, but she would have also been getting people alone, which would have been easy enough with the vast majority of people all congregated in the same area(s). Find a way of getting someone alone - then pounce.

However, we don't see those mechanics in action as it would just take too long, for one, and for two, it'd not really fit into the big reveal sequence at the end. The emotion and the revelation of the scene is what's important to get across to the viewer, whereas the literal how of it isn't.

The "how" is important. Without any explanation whatsoever regarding this detail, it certainly makes you wonder how could they pull this off. Kidnapping a bunch of people in broad daylight in such a crowded place is not something that is bound to easily go unnoticed. On top of that, most of these people were seasoned survivors, not exactly the easiest kind to abduct. Katelyn Nacon herself is not satisfied with how this was handled:

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2468876/one-walking-dead-star-thinks-character-was-killed-off-because-writers-ran-out-of-story

Katelyn Nacon was also frustrated that The Walking Dead didn't show how Alpha managed to kidnap the people in her group, including Enid -- whose mantra was always JSS, Just Survive Somehow.

They could simply have shown that Alpha infiltrated the fair with a few also disguised confederates, for example, which would make the scenario a bit easier to swallow.

[Zombie Snack]

I think the "how" that all these people were captured/kidnapped was not shown to get the most shock value from the ghastly reveal of the severed heads. Now that we have seen who was piked I do think they should do a flashback scene showing how this was accomplished, more than the scene off them fighting and being killed, that was shown, how did they get there, what transpired that got them in that situation.

[facestabber]

I’m cool with them skipping the How for this episode. If we saw a team of whisperers gear up and infiltrate it would kill the mystery. We weren’t sure what Alphas plan was beyond gathering intel and confronting Lydia. I have read many theories that Siddiq was allowed to live for a reason.....

The fair goers definitely let their guard down. After a decade of hell I can understand complacency setting in for something so unique and fun as a fair/movie. Now and after the reveal I would certainly like to see how Tara was caught considering her vocal objection to Lydia’s presence. She was on alert.

JDP I understand what you’re saying and agree. I just don’t agree that the How fits to this episode.

[Moon Knight]

Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own?

I knew the episode was running an extra 25 minutes and saw the actual listing on the cable box running until 10pm. I then set it to record and extra 30 minutes after just in case. AMC is the worst.

So, one quick example was the pipes needing attention so Henry went to investigate it quick before the movie, a nice call back to 9x06 when he was working on the piping. He was knocked out and quietly taken. I assume this also happened to the others, too. Alpha asking Ezekiel where the storage for clothing was another example on how she tricked people into being alone and away from the group.

I personally don’t have to know exactly how everyone was taken, don’t need to see it cause I can put things together quite well. The reveal scene worked so much better without knowing in advance who was up there.

[MinionZombie]

I knew the episode was running an extra 25 minutes and saw the actual listing on the cable box running until 10pm. I then set it to record and extra 30 minutes after just in case. AMC is the worst.

So, one quick example was the pipes needing attention so Henry went to investigate it quick before the movie, a nice call back to 9x06 when he was working on the piping. He was knocked out and quietly taken. I assume this also happened to the others, too. Alpha asking Ezekiel where the storage for clothing was another example on how she tricked people into being alone and away from the group.

I personally don’t have to know exactly how everyone was taken, don’t need to see it cause I can put things together quite well. The reveal scene worked so much better without knowing in advance who was up there.

Exactly. Editorially speaking it'd be far too clunky to try and mash in the "how" of their abduction, because as I said before the whole point of the reveal scene is 1) revealing who's dead and 2) the emotional impact of that revelation. You've got to keep things clean and focused.

As for showing a flashback for the "how"? What's the point? The horse has bolted, so to speak, and trying to shoehorn an "oh and by the way" scene into proceedings then buggers up the telling of the current episode's story.

I think we got enough clues as to the "how" throughout the episode, particularly with the cold open - notice how when the cart was discovered the bodies weren't. So they didn't know who had been killed, and with no easy communication abilities nor fast transport, you can't really expect them to go charging about (at medium speed) to solve that mystery when who is dead isn't most important, what is most important is that there is some shit going down and they need to get some folks back to Hilltop to guard it.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice some dotted "I"s and crossed "T"s in order to allow the story itself to flow properly. But, again, we saw enough glimpses to give us solid clues as to the "why". There was an element of opportunism, too - Alpha separated Ezekiel from the group, but she didn't end up sticking his head on a pike. No doubt the opportunity didn't arise. However, when Henry had to go and check those troublesome pipes that was a golden chance to kidnap him. They weren't taking people in broad daylight amidst all the people, they specifically chose their moments away from the masses, the masses which initially allowed them to infiltrate and start seeking their opportunities.

We've also seen our seasoned survivors find themselves in deep shit before, so it's entirely believable - even at this point (if not more so as six years of relative peace will have likely softened some folks alertness) - that some folks could be unlucky. Alpha & Co aren't idiots either, they're a very crafty lot who already think about what their enemy are going to do (e.g. Beta figuring out Daryl's strategy in the tower block).

[Moon Knight]

Not to mention all the abducted were women and teenagers. The only men who were piked were killed during the rescue attempt.

[JDP]

Not to mention all the abducted were women and teenagers. The only men who were piked were killed during the rescue attempt.

I don't see the likes of Tara, Enid and Siddiq being easily taken down. Plus we also see that the captured group put up a fight before being killed. These were people used to surviving under harsh conditions and had made it through a whole bunch of very bad stuff. In any event, there is no way that one person alone could have pulled this off. So it would be simply a matter of showing that Alpha did not infiltrate the fair alone but with several other members of her group. At least we would know for sure that the show is not proposing that Alpha pulled all this off on her own, which would be silly.

[Moon Knight]

I don't see the likes of Tara, Enid and Siddiq being easily taken down. Plus we also see that the captured group put up a fight before being killed. These were people used to surviving under harsh conditions and had made it through a whole bunch of very bad stuff. In any event, there is no way that one person alone could have pulled this off. So it would be simply a matter of showing that Alpha did not infiltrate the fair alone but with several other members of her group. At least we would know for sure that the show is not proposing that Alpha pulled all this off on her own, which would be silly.

I could understand that. I can see Alpha, in disguise mind you, knock out Tara and Enid. Remember, they were taken during a fair in one of their sanctuary's. I can say the same for Siddiq. I also don’t think she worked alone. I guess I personally don’t need to see it.

[Neil]

The "how" is important. Without any explanation whatsoever regarding this detail, it certainly makes you wonder how could they pull this off. Kidnapping a bunch of people in broad daylight in such a crowded place is not something that is bound to easily go unnoticed. On top of that, most of these people were seasoned survivors, not exactly the easiest kind to abduct. Katelyn Nacon herself is not satisfied with how this was handled:

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2468876/one-walking-dead-star-thinks-character-was-killed-off-because-writers-ran-out-of-story

Katelyn Nacon was also frustrated that The Walking Dead didn't show how Alpha managed to kidnap the people in her group, including Enid -- whose mantra was always JSS, Just Survive Somehow.

They could simply have shown that Alpha infiltrated the fair with a few also disguised confederates, for example, which would make the scenario a bit easier to swallow.

I was confused by that too.

[MinionZombie]

I could understand that. I can see Alpha, in disguise mind you, knock out Tara and Enid. Remember, they were taken during a fair in one of their sanctuary's. I can say the same for Siddiq. I also don’t think she worked alone. I guess I personally don’t need to see it.

Infiltration inside one of their santuaries wasn't high on their list of concerns. Indeed, they were more concerned about Hilltop being a target, so that's where their minds were at.

Also, it shows the difference between hardened survivors who have spent the last six years inside walls with nice warm beds to sleep in vs hardened survivors who roam the wilderness wearing the flesh of the dead. The sheer ruthless animality of The Whisperers was summed up with that awesome scene where Alpha kills one of her followers because he happened to see Alpha shed a single tear.

[facestabber]

Once we saw the pike victims it was clear to me that alpha did not infiltrate alone. Also clear that confronting Lydia wasn’t her only mission. Aside from intel gathering she was a distraction. As Minion alluded(and even Rick Grimes in season 5) the walls made people weak. Kingdom got caught with their pants down. They obviously didn’t understand the enemy even though Lydia told them her mother is ruthless and relentless. They won’t be infiltrated again.

[Moon Knight]

Not to mention we saw just how Alpha can hold up her own, even against males as she strangled that one dude with her bare hands, and that was pre Alpha! People seem to downplay just how ruthless and skilled Alpha is.

[Neil]

Once we saw the pike victims it was clear to me that alpha did not infiltrate alone.
Agreed, and a tight script would have been delivered that. ie: Her stopping to chat to another group at the fare, who quickly transpire to be whisperers.

[Moon Knight]

Agreed, and a tight script would have been delivered that. ie: Her stopping to chat to another group at the fare, who quickly transpire to be whisperers.

I believe they just wanted to emulate the comic as close as possible.

[shootemindehead]

Just catching up on this now. I see they didn't have the balls to whack Ezekiel.

Sorry to see Tara go. Always liked her. And poor Enid. The rest were a bunch of nobodies I can't even remember the names of. But, it was largely the same in the comic. I think that's where I stopped reading it.

Agree with everyone on Samantha Morton. She's a bit scary. :eek:

[MinionZombie]

Actually the comics and the show only shared one death with the pikes scene, but of course the comics and the show are in two different places and have different characters at that point as well. Frankly, they couldn't afford to kill off Ezekiel on the show as it'd leave a big hole when it comes to strong community leaders.

I think overall the show's kills had more impact than those in the comics, which was more skewed towards cannon fodder or people you barely remembered/knew. Even the small supporting roles in the show had a bit of business to do here and there, even if some of them did get a bit shoved aside due to the sheer size of the cast.

[Moon Knight]

Just catching up on this now. I see they didn't have the balls to whack Ezekiel.

Sorry to see Tara go. Always liked her. And poor Enid. The rest were a bunch of nobodies I can't even remember the names of. But, it was largely the same in the comic. I think that's where I stopped reading it.

Agree with everyone on Samantha Morton. She's a bit scary. :eek:

After losing Rick and Maggie, Michonne next season, I don’t mind them saving a bigger character. Show needs em.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually the comics and the show only shared one death with the pikes scene, but of course the comics and the show are in two different places and have different characters at that point as well. Frankly, they couldn't afford to kill off Ezekiel on the show as it'd leave a big hole when it comes to strong community leaders.

I think overall the show's kills had more impact than those in the comics, which was more skewed towards cannon fodder or people you barely remembered/knew. Even the small supporting roles in the show had a bit of business to do here and there, even if some of them did get a bit shoved aside due to the sheer size of the cast.

Yeah, the show killed more people of importance than the comic.

[shootemindehead]

After losing Rick and Maggie, Michonne next season, I don’t mind them saving a bigger character. Show needs em.

I don't disagree. The show is populated almost entirely by red shirts now. I honestly can't remember about 90% of their names.

[Moon Knight]

I don't disagree. The show is populated almost entirely by red shirts now. I honestly can't remember about 90% of their names.

The comic is worse. That’s why I really hoped they switched direction after the Whisperers.

[shootemindehead]

I haven't continued the comic, so I don't know what comes after The Whisperers storyline. TBH I found them stupid in the extreme, both in the comic and the TV show. When I see them in the show, I just think of Slipknot. :lol:

[Moon Knight]

I haven't continued the:elol: comic, so I don't know what comes after The Whisperers storyline. TBH I found them stupid in the extreme, both in the comic and the TV show. When I see them in the show, I just think of Slipknot. :lol:

Dude, I love Slipknot. :hyper:

[MinionZombie]

The TV show Whisperers work way better than their comic book counterparts. I was really worried it wasn't going to work, but Kang & Co have dispatched a lot of silliness and bullshit and inserted more dread and mystery and developed the good that was already there and pulled it off.

As for 'red shirts', every show has them, but I think TWD does a good job of giving minor characters a bit of something to chew on (most of the time). In this episode, for example, we get these two totally new characters who only survive as long as the cold open, but we get a nice bit of very efficient character stuff for them to do and, of course, their death has a very important payoff.

The comics do have a problem with the cast of characters, though. I get the trade paperbacks, so I'm only reading once every six months (which is partly the problem), but because it's just B&W drawings on a page and character names aren't used enough it's a real struggle to remember who's who unless they're a really long-standing character or they have a distinct visual look. There seems to be too many minor characters in the comics who all kinda look alike or don't have enough to do. The TV show benefits from it being live action and each actor looking distinct, although you can't remember everyone in such a huge cast. I had to get myself reminded about a couple of the pike victims (e.g. the one who used to be a Negan wife).

In the comics it was two big, recognisable characters (Ezekiel and Rosita) and a lot of "who's that again?" supporting players, but in the show we had a broader range. Sure, some of them might not have had loads to do lately (e.g. Enid) but the massive cast leads to this kind of issue, but the loss of characters like Tara come as a big whack in the gut while the fallout from Henry's death has major implications for both Carol and Ezekiel. I did rather enjoy how the show played with the expectations of comics readers and viewers alike.

We need Ezekiel around because, as has been said, we've lost Rick to the movies and will be losing Michonne (most probably to the movies, so the case seems to be), and the Maggie situation is in flux (it feels as if she'll appear in some of season 10 at least), plus Jesus has been snuffed out (but he's still there in the comics). So we need to retain some of these big leader figures (and build up a couple of new ones).

[shootemindehead]

You're waaaay too positive about this show Mini...

:lol:

[Moon Knight]

You're waaaay too positive about this show Mini...

:lol:

Not everyone jumps ship so easily. TWD is past its prime but I’ll still continue to support a prime time horror show. We ain’t talking Z Nation type of quality haha.

[MinionZombie]

You're waaaay too positive about this show Mini...

:lol:

Said the cup that's never more than 15% full. :D


Not everyone jumps ship so easily. TWD is past its prime but I’ll still continue to support a prime time horror show. We ain’t talking Z Nation type of quality haha.

Yeah, it's past it's prime, I'd agree with that, but the show has also bounced back with Angela Kang as the new showrunner and, incredibly, they've manage to not only weather Rick's departure but they've made The Whisperers work. The pacing has been miles better this season compared to seasons 7 & 8 with improved characterisation to boot, and they're utilising their cast much better than in the last couple of seasons.

I do love TWD, but I do point out flaws when it's fair to do so, but at the same time I'm not gonna get my knickers in a twist and blow things out of proportion. When the news hit that Rick was leaving the show I was gutted and was not looking forward to season 9 much at all - but then I watched it and was very pleasantly surprised throughout the season and now I'm really excited for season 10 ... but at the same time, especially with the movies in the pipeline, I absolutely do want a proper wrap-up plan as the show does need to conclude and then once it's concluded then I'd want another spin off (that provides something new in the TWD universe, not just the same old civvie stories).