TWD 10x09 "Squeeze" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 10x09 "Squeeze" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Michael Satrazemis
Written by: David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick


The group must figure out how to get out of a precarious situation.

https://undeadwalking.com/2020/02/10/walking-dead-1009-1010-preview-classic-horror-surprises-galore/

The first two episodes of The Walking Dead season 10B are particularly striking because they embrace terror in ways fans haven’t seen in a long time. The suspense is top notch, reminiscent of the season 1 creepiness that made us fall in love with the show.

Both episodes clock in at just about 45 minutes without commercials, which means much tighter storytelling. 1009 moves incredibly fast while 1010 slows the action down somewhat, but don’t let that fool you – “Stalker” is every bit as pulse-pounding as “Squeeze”, just in its own very distinctive way. If 1009 is an outright horror movie, 1010 is a spine-tingling slow burn through your worst nightmare.

[Moon Knight]

For the first time ever I avoided all interviews, promos, reviews, ect, for this back half.

I’m ready.

[MinionZombie]

For the first time ever I avoided all interviews, promos, reviews, ect, for this back half.

I’m ready.

Funnily enough, so have I. I think I saw one tiny teaser (like literally 10 seconds and it didn't show any footage) and that's been it. I have seen that there's been plenty of promotion, but I didn't watch any trailers this time around - it's kinda nice going into it like this.

[Moon Knight]

Funnily enough, so have I. I think I saw one tiny teaser (like literally 10 seconds and it didn't show any footage) and that's been it. I have seen that there's been plenty of promotion, but I didn't watch any trailers this time around - it's kinda nice going into it like this.

Yeah not sure if it’s cause I’m avoiding but there seems to be so much promotion out there. I mean, there is just too much released. I don’t mind the new artwork; which is badass btw, but the amount of trailers and clips is kinda outlandish.

[MinionZombie]

Solid episode generally.

Good to see Carol's reckless actions have been confronted and rejected by the group - the scene where she begged Daryl to condemn her, but he refused to say even a single word to her, was very powerful (hopefully Connie survives!! ... I don't really care about Magna to be honest).

And ... so ... Negan and Alpha, eh? Creepy. :lol::lol::lol:

[Moon Knight]

As someone who is claustrophobic, this episode gave me anxiety haha.

I too am glad the group rejected Carol. She’s a bit much now. I really liked the cave stuff. Felt fresh.

Negan and Alpha, man, pulled right from the King and Queen cover. Hilarious.

[MinionZombie]

I mean, obviously with Carol, she's dealing with so much trauma over Henry - trauma that she's not dealing with at all (she'd gone off on a boat between 9 and 10) - that she has been making rash and emotionally driven decisions, spurred on by a desperate thirst for revenge. I think this should now be a big wake up call to Carol, the cost of her actions has finally been writ large in no uncertain terms.

There's still some tactical thought going on, but that too has been totally tarnished and muddied by abject grief and clouded thinking - the dynamite did provide an opportunity to kill good chunks of Alpha's herd (which would be quite useful), but enacting that idea in such an impulsive and ill-considered manner has had drastic consequences. Hopefully Connie (and, okay, Magna) can find a way out as it seems there is another way out (that the Whisperers used).

I'm not claustrophobic, but I can see how this episode would set those who do on edge - similar to movies like "The Descent".

[JDP]

Some of the cave scenes were a bit too dark to be able to readily see what was going on. Had to rewind and watch some of the sequences several times.

Also, using the unstable dynamite on the zombies shouldn't have been this difficult that it ended up causing the accident. For security's sake, just wait for everyone but one person to be out of the caves, then this person hangs (using either a rope or twisted clothes to improvise one) the dynamite crate over the ledge of that tall precipice where part of the herd is at the bottom, puts a flame to the rope holding the crate and then moves out of the caves. Once the rope burns through, gravity will take care of the rest. When the crate of unstable dynamite falls, those zombies down there are blown to smithereens. Plus then there will also be rock collapses in those caves from the shock wave of all that dynamite going off at the same time, which will smash more zombies in other places not directly in contact with the blast. On top of that, some of the zombies that are not destroyed by either the blast or the cave ins might become trapped in those caves, blocked by the falling rocks. A big chunk of the herd is thus put out of commission.

[Moon Knight]

Magna is kind of a bitch but that’s what I like about her. Really no other character like that. She has flaws and isn’t the most noble but usually has good intentions; especially when it comes to those close to her.

[MinionZombie]

Burning a rope made of clothes? It'd break far too quickly (even if it could hold the weight of a crate of dynamite), not to mention there'd inevitably be flaming scraps of clothing falling down on the highly unstable dynamite itself - which would then detonate high above the walkers. And how on earth would you hang it above the walkers without a whole host of climbing gear and expertise anyway (none of which they possess)?

The only thing you'd really be able to do would be to light 'em and fling 'em into the crowd down below, and even then it's just as likely you'd blow yourself up before any walkers.

[JDP]

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

Twist the clothes together to make a thicker and stronger improvised rope. The fire won't go through it as fast either.

The dynamite crate is hung CLOSED, not open, so no danger of any sparks/cinders setting it off prematurely.

You hang it over the ledge looking straight down into the pack of zombies below, like this:

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/businessman-hanging-from-rope-off-of-a-cliff-picture-id182061533

Only instead of a guy it's the crate of dynamite.

[MinionZombie]

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

Twist the clothes together to make a thicker and stronger improvised rope. The fire won't go through it as fast either.

The dynamite crate is hung CLOSED, not open, so no danger of any sparks/cinders setting it off prematurely.

You hang it over the ledge looking straight down into the pack of zombies below.

You can't really figure on any kind of accurate time for the clothes burning, or indeed if they'll continue to burn and not just smoulder or even for the fire to go out (they'd be drenched in sweat and/or moisture from the cave system).

The crate of dynamite didn't appear to have its top, though - it was only covered with a tarp, not the top of the actual box.

What's to say that the dynamite would even explode? You couldn't be sure. You could end up just wasting a caste of dynamite by dropping it onto the squishy undulated mass of zombies. If you light the dynamite and fling it you're gonna know it'll explode for sure - but, as said before, you could blow yourself up in the process or (as we saw) cause a cave-in.

Dangling it over the edge - Carol had to climb out onto a perilous little rock face with room barely big enough for her feet to cling to, in order to attempt her dynamite plan, so there's no option to really dangle a whole box of dynamite from there. Indeed, you might not be able to take out many walkers from another nearby position. You'd certainly drastically cut down the number you could take out as a large degree of your explosion circumference would be impacting rock face rather than walker face.

[JDP]

You can't really figure on any kind of accurate time for the clothes burning, or indeed if they'll continue to burn and not just smoulder or even for the fire to go out (they'd be drenched in sweat and/or moisture from the cave system).

You can just leave a torch on top or below the rope. It will burn through, eventually.


The crate of dynamite didn't appear to have its top, though - it was only covered with a tarp, not the top of the actual box.

If the cover is not found, you can easily put wooden planks on it and improvise a cover. Plenty of loose wood in the mine shaft.


What's to say that the dynamite would even explode? You couldn't be sure. You could end up just wasting a caste of dynamite by dropping it onto the squishy undulated mass of zombies.

Unstable "sweaty" dynamite will go off from a strong impact. Going down in free-fall that tall cliff will most likely set it off. In fact, what caused the cave ins was Carol accidentally dropping one stick down the cliff. Notice the dynamite stick was not lit when she dropped it. It was the strong impact that made it go off. You can even put some rocks over the crate, to make even more sure that the unstable dynamite is going to get a huge blow once it lands.


If you light the dynamite and fling it you're gonna know it'll explode for sure - but, as said before, you could blow yourself up in the process or (as we saw) cause a cave-in.

The fuses on the dynamite sticks looked too short to venture to do that. That's one of the reasons why Carol's plan did not make sense, unless she was going suicidal. There's no way that she could have gotten away fast enough before the fuse set off the dynamite. If she did not get killed by the blast, the cave ins would have gotten her.


Dangling it over the edge - Carol had to climb out onto a perilous little rock face with room barely big enough for her feet to cling to, in order to attempt her dynamite plan, so there's no option to really dangle a whole box of dynamite from there. Indeed, you might not be able to take out many walkers from another nearby position. You'd certainly drastically cut down the number you could take out as a large degree of your explosion circumference would be impacting rock face rather than walker face.

Carol had a different plan: she wanted to set off a cave in by placing a stick of dynamite near the cave roof. That's why she was doing all those dangerous stunts. My plan is way safer than hers. It doesn't require climbing anything. You go to an appropriate edge of the cliff overlooking the bottom, like the place where Daryl dropped the improvised torch, which is looking straight down into the cave system where the herd is, hang the entire crate of unstable dynamite there, set fire to the rope, and then head to the mine shaft and from there to the surface. When that bunch of unstable dynamite goes off from the strong impact, not only will the blast kill a bunch of the zombies, but the shock wave will certainly cause cave ins, crushing and trapping more zombies.

[Neil]

...Also, using the unstable dynamite on the zombies shouldn't have been this difficult that it ended up causing the accident. For security's sake, just wait for everyone but one person to be out of the caves...
We're back to these supposed uber survivors just acting like no one seemingly gives a damn again. eg: All of them playing frogger across the rocks, in the hope it just works out OK and leads someone to escape, opposed to a couple of the them trying/looking first?

And Carol yet again, risking the entire group, not learning from the end of the last season?

ps: I still don't understand why Negan hasn't killed Alpha in the times he's been alone with her? Thoughts?

[JDP]

We're back to these supposed uber survivors just acting like no one seemingly gives a damn again. eg: All of them playing frogger across the rocks, in the hope it just works out OK and leads someone to escape, opposed to a couple of the them trying/looking first?

And Carol yet again, risking the entire group, not learning from the end of the last season?

Carol's "transmutation" is a strange one. This was one of the most seasoned, cool-headed, calculating survivors in the show, who has saved many, and who has endured hell & back again, but now look at her... a totally unreliable, unstable mess who endangers everyone around her with her carelessly thought actions.


ps: I still don't understand why Negan hasn't killed Alpha in the times he's been alone with her? Thoughts?

Maybe he is considering a "coup d'etat", but it's still not the right moment for him to take over. It's just not Alpha, he also has to deal with "Frankenstein's Hemorrhoid", who most likely would not take Alpha's demise sitting down quietly.

[MinionZombie]

ps: I still don't understand why Negan hasn't killed Alpha in the times he's been alone with her? Thoughts?

He'll be formulating some kind of plan - no doubt. He's a calculating kind of a guy.

Now, that scene with Alpha giving him a "reward" ... I just couldn't stop thinking about how grim that'd be. Both will have rank breath, for one, but Negan's been sweatin' it up in the woods in the summer in a leather jacket for a while now, and he'd just been thrown into the Whisperer's latrine earlier in the episode ... ... Alpha, meanwhile, I can't imagine she's had a bath in quite some time (and notice how there's no toilet paper in the Whisperer world). :barf:

...

Now, in terms of Carol - yes, she's making bad decisions, but she's also making them out of pure emotion, and very wounded emotions at that. Her recklessness was recognised in this episode in no uncertain terms, but I do hope the writers don't fall back into the problems of seasons 7 and 8 where you'd find smart survivors doing dumb things almost as a matter of routine (e.g. the garbage truck smashing into Sanctuary and bolloxing up the siege plan they'd all previously agreed upon).

However, Carol has been through the wringer. She lost her actual daughter early on, she lost her adoptive children (in season 4) - one of whom she herself had to execute (!!!) - then a few seasons worth of various complications, then she finally finds some peace and gains a new adoptive son with Henry - and she gets to live a decent life for a good few years, before all of it is torn away from her in the most violent and grotesque manner. Seeing your child's head on a pike (and reanimated, to boot) would be the most harrowing thing she's ever seen and endured. It broke her. Between seasons 9 and 10 she has basically exiled herself to run away from the awful memories of what had gone down there, having also ditched Ezekiel in the process. Now she comes back and with the killer of her child still out there in the world somewhere, returning to the scene of the terrible crime inevitably brings it all back and she spirals out of control.

Driven by searing white hot revenge and unresolved grief she's unsurprisingly not making the best decisions. Her need to kill Alpha is so absolute and so desperate there is no rationality at work - but the climax of this episode will perhaps knock some sense back into her.

[Moon Knight]

The Daryl/Carol dynamic is reminiscent to Rick/Carol from season 4. I loved how Daryl couldn’t say a word to her at the end. I believe this will end Carol’s obsession with Alpha; leaving the room all for Negan.

[MinionZombie]

The Daryl/Carol dynamic is reminiscent to Rick/Carol from season 4. I loved how Daryl couldn’t say a word to her at the end. I believe this will end Carol’s obsession with Alpha; leaving the room all for Negan.

Yeah, on Talking Dead they mentioned the link to Rick exiling Carol in season 4, all the stronger now that Daryl has had to step up and fill Rick's boots - and it's been really good to see Daryl develop as a character so much since Kang took over. We're a long way from the grunting lone wolf of season 7, and so much farther away than the redneck little brother of season 1.

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, on Talking Dead they mentioned the link to Rick exiling Carol in season 4, all the stronger now that Daryl has had to step up and fill Rick's boots - and it's been really good to see Daryl develop as a character so much since Kang took over. We're a long way from the grunting lone wolf of season 7, and so much farther away than the redneck little brother of season 1.

Freaking AMC airing TD an hour past the actual show is stupid. Don’t even watch it anymore.

[MinionZombie]

Freaking AMC airing TD an hour past the actual show is stupid. Don’t even watch it anymore.

Well they did that on this occasion because they premiered season 5 of Better call Saul (they did two episodes this week, one on Sunday and one on its usual Monday slot) - but TD will be back to it's normal time for 10x10.

[Neil]

I just couldn't stop thinking about how grim that'd be. Both will have rank breath, for one, but Negan's been sweatin' it up in the woods in the summer in a leather jacket for a while now, and he'd just been thrown into the Whisperer's latrine earlier in the episode ... ... Alpha, meanwhile, I can't imagine she's had a bath in quite some time (and notice how there's no toilet paper in the Whisperer world). :barf:

The same sort of question comes up with people from hundreds of years ago, where hygiene was far poorer. So I suspect the answer is the same. You simply get used to the smell...? :)

[Moon Knight]

The same sort of question comes up with people from hundreds of years ago, where hygiene was far poorer. So I suspect the answer is the same. You simply get used to the smell...? :)

I couldn't handle it, man. Nope.

[MinionZombie]

The same sort of question comes up with people from hundreds of years ago, where hygiene was far poorer. So I suspect the answer is the same. You simply get used to the smell...? :)

*shudders*

A 'ghost poo' is such a rarity in normal life, so you just know the Whisperers are walking around with very rusty sheriff's badges. Even with a few leaves ... it's just not happening.


I couldn't handle it, man. Nope.

Negan really is taking one for the team. :lol:

[JDP]

The Whisperers might be a bit cleaner than one would at first think. These guys do not live under a roof but in the open air. Every time it rains, they take a shower, whether they want to or not.

Also, we do not know what their purposeful hygienic habits might be. They live in the forests and therefore have access to cascades, springs, rivers, streams, brooks, lakes, ponds, etc. Access to water is definitely not an issue. They have as much of it as they could possibly want.

[MinionZombie]

A rinse off is better than nothing, sure, but it's not exactly a decent wash by any means.

No doubt they'll still reek way more than the other survivors, who have: toiletries, changes of clothes, clean beds, a roof over their heads, actual showers with soap, flushing toilets, bog roll etc.

[Moon Knight]

Alpha dropped a deuce and didn’t even wipe.

[MinionZombie]

Alpha dropped a deuce and didn’t even wipe.

Exactly. Grotty Whisperers are grotty.

Also :lol::lol::lol: at your editing reason. :D

No wonder all their clothes are so dreary ... fifty shades of gastric brown.

[Moon Knight]

Exactly. Grotty Whisperers are grotty.

Also :lol::lol::lol: at your editing reason. :D

No wonder all their clothes are so dreary ... fifty shades of gastric brown.

It’s safe to assume The Whisperers don’t believe in good hygiene anymore haha.