Romero's Apocalyptic Prophecy

[deadhead412]

Hello HPoTD! I prepared for Living Dead Weekend '21 with a marathon re-watching of both of Romero's dead trilogies. But I felt they hit a bit different than normal. Specifically Romero's portrayal of the zombie apocalypse. Sure he was ahead of his time on this story idea but I always had to hand waive it. Romero's ghouls are slow, weak, mostly stupid, and arguably containable. Romero addressed this too with built in his themes throughout the series, lack of communication, lack of trust, fear, greed, politics, etc... all play into the societal collapse shown in the series.

But the past few years made the flicks hit different. Civil unrest, hyper-polarization of our politics, mass media, fake news, general distrust, not to mention the whole global health crisis all have pretty eerie parallels in the Dead Series. Now I'm pretty confident if a Romero style zombie phenomena hit us, it wouldn't be a cake walk. We'd probably mess it up on every level.

[Neil]

I've not watch the trilogy in a while. About time I did :)

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, we all dead.

[MinionZombie]

Aye, before this Covid bullshit I thought that if a Romero ZA ever happened we'd have it sorted. Now though? Looking at the beyond stupid crap going on, governments incapable of doing the necessary things early enough, people harping on about "muh freedums" because they have to wear a mask during a pandemic of a respiratory disease (who'da thunk it?!) ... yeah ... the zombies'll win.

[deadhead412]

Aye, before this Covid bullshit I thought that if a Romero ZA ever happened we'd have it sorted. Now though? Looking at the beyond stupid crap going on, governments incapable of doing the necessary things early enough, people harping on about "muh freedums" because they have to wear a mask during a pandemic of a respiratory disease (who'da thunk it?!) ... yeah ... the zombies'll win.


Right I think the months long collapse Romero portrays is pretty generous!

[EvilNed]

Geez, you guys sure had high hopes for humanity prior to 2020.

[MinionZombie]

Geez, you guys sure had high hopes for humanity prior to 2020.

High hopes? ... Basic competence more like.

[Neil]

A good point to bring up actually, this goes a few ways. We've got the political debate end through Dr. Foster and Berman later carried on by Rausch. Then there's option 3 which our "heroes" in Dawn take. But while we see Philly is in pretty bad shape, I do wonder if Roger and Stephen might have lived longer if they never deserted the city. Maybe Fran's Canada option was best.

I think "the islands" would have been the best bet surely?

[deadhead412]

I think "the islands" would have been the best bet surely?

Just as long as you have enough cigarettes. But I'm not sure those guys found many good island options on the Schuylkill River.

[MinionZombie]

But you've also got people who refuse to abide by sensible guidelines in Dawn, for example - like don't keep flesh eating disease spreading zombies in the basements of your buildings because it spreads the virus! But no - ignore that very sensible rule - even though the cleaning out of the tenement was heavy handed to say the least (but was it heavy handed because of the blind refusal of the residents to a degree? But why were they so against the authorities? Because they're poor and non-white and have likely had few good encounters with police or government authorities? You keep going down the rabbit hole of chicken/egg reasoning on things like that).

Our quartet of characters in Dawn also act very selfishly, essentially. They abandon their duties, they steal a helicopter - people in positions of communication or authority who just abandon those who need them (e.g. Fran was the one trying to take down the list of inoperative rescue stations, Peter and Roger being SWAT guys trying to mop up dangerous hotbeds of infection etc).

It wouldn't be wrong for anyone to go to those rescue stations. What's wrong is the people in charge not updating their lists - therefore sending innocent and unaware people to their dooms. People going to those rescue stations for help is quite a sensible thing to do, and there's nothing weak or "sheeple-like" about it. The let down is the government with piss poor communication and a complete disregard for the safety of their citizens, people who need their governments to actually do what they're elected to do.

[deadhead412]

[
But you've also got people who refuse to abide by sensible guidelines in Dawn, for example - like don't keep flesh eating disease spreading zombies in the basements of your buildings because it spreads the virus! But no - ignore that very sensible rule - even though the cleaning out of the tenement was heavy handed to say the least (but was it heavy handed because of the blind refusal of the residents to a degree? But why were they so against the authorities? Because they're poor and non-white and have likely had few good encounters with police or government authorities? You keep going down the rabbit hole of chicken/egg reasoning on things like that).

Our quartet of characters in Dawn also act very selfishly, essentially. They abandon their duties, they steal a helicopter - people in positions of communication or authority who just abandon those who need them (e.g. Fran was the one trying to take down the list of inoperative rescue stations, Peter and Roger being SWAT guys trying to mop up dangerous hotbeds of infection etc).

It wouldn't be wrong for anyone to go to those rescue stations. What's wrong is the people in charge not updating their lists - therefore sending innocent and unaware people to their dooms. People going to those rescue stations for help is quite a sensible thing to do, and there's nothing weak or "sheeple-like" about it. The let down is the government with piss poor communication and a complete disregard for the safety of their citizens, people who need their governments to actually do what they're elected to do.

Agreed. Don't keep zombies in your apartment complex and don't start helpless shootouts in a world where everyone who dies comes back as the enemy. I think you hit the keyword though, communication or at least its breakdown is a prominent theme in the original trilogy. Nobody is working together, everyone is pulling in different directions. Berman refuses to even accept the notion of the dead coming back and Foster's more moderate common sense line to deal with the crisis is later replaced by a more extreme Dr. Rausch who can't help but condescend and alienate everyone.

Also you're right our four leads in Dawn are thieves and bad guys. They're contributing to the increasingly rapid breakdown of civilization.

In terms of mistrust between the authorities and the public i.e. attitudes of distrust of the police by minority communities I think Romero made that intentionally clear. Which is realistic, people who distrust the police or the government would still distrust them after the dead rose. It would play into the world. Berman does make a valid albeit hard to hear point in Dawn's opening. People can't just be expected to drop every religious, cultural, moral belief they have had for centuries overnight. Some would have trouble seeing their family and friends as a bloodthirsty monster, they might even hold misguided out hope for a cure.

[EvilNed]

High hopes? ... Basic competence more like.

And what is basic competence in this case?
I'm sure there are at least two different sides to that story. And we have decades of research on how tribalistic we are.
We are not rational beings and never have been. I knew that before this pandemic and this has only strengthened my beliefs.

[deadhead412]

And then there's also the loads of conspiracy theory weirdoes, who would deny the very existence of the zombies -even while they are encroaching on them and their friends and relatives too-, and offering all sorts of ridiculous "explanations": "There is no zombie virus, it's just a different strain of the common flu!", "It's just a bunch of Democrats wearing make-up and stirring up trouble in the streets so they can continue to steal the 2020 election!", "It's just another devious plot by Bill Gates to inject us with microchips!", etc.

This would definitely happen and in Dawn it pretty much does happen only through the main form of media of its age. Givens' slimy attempt to cling to rating at the expensive of lives and for what? A few hours or days of soon to be meaningless money. Then broadcasting a belligerent show seemingly designed to conflict with Dr. Foster who TBH is one of the few sane characters in the movie. He's just plainly stating the implications of the threat and getting shouted down. It's the fake news of the 1970s.

[MinionZombie]

Lack of communication between two completely opposed sides, and of ineffective government in whatever form (e.g. military, political, or even the ragtag group of soldiers in Day), has been a long-running theme of Romero's work.

As searingly relevant today as it ever was, unfortunately.

[JDP]

Lack of communication between two completely opposed sides, and of ineffective government in whatever form (e.g. military, political, or even the ragtag group of soldiers in Day), has been a long-running theme of Romero's work.

As searingly relevant today as it ever was, unfortunately.

In Night and Dawn the main target of criticism is not in fact the government, but the average Joe and his reluctance to comply with sane, logical measures. The authorities in those two movies are in fact portrayed as the ones having the better grasp of the situation, who are trying their best to stop the zombies from further spreading. It's the citizens who don't comply that keep making matters worse.

[MinionZombie]

In Night and Dawn the main target of criticism is not in fact the government, but the average Joe and his reluctance to comply with sane, logical measures. The authorities in those two movies are in fact portrayed as the ones having the better grasp of the situation, who are trying their best to stop the zombies from further spreading. It's the citizens who don't comply that keep making matters worse.

I didn't say government was the main target.

Also "Lack of communication between two completely opposed sides" and "and of ineffective government in whatever form" are intended as two distinct parts of the same sentence. The former includes said civilians - or anyone really. The main thing is two completely opposed sides butting heads while the problem remains unfixed and getting worse.

I'm not sure if the authorities in Dawn really have a great grasp of what's going on. Certain basic things, sure (e.g. don't keep zombies in your basements, they need to be turned over to disposal to stop the spread of infection), but the whole thing is chaotic and coming apart fast. Even the scientists representing government policy are often shown to be putting out conflicting ideas or even downright idiotic ones for whatever purpose (e.g. feeding the "opposition"). Government grasp over their own people (e.g. police) has weakened considerably with folks in uniform splitting the scene to save their own skin (e.g. the ragtag group of cops in Dawn).

[JDP]

I didn't say government was the main target.

Also "Lack of communication between two completely opposed sides" and "and of ineffective government in whatever form" are intended as two distinct parts of the same sentence. The former includes said civilians - or anyone really. The main thing is two completely opposed sides butting heads while the problem remains unfixed and getting worse.

I'm not sure if the authorities in Dawn really have a great grasp of what's going on. Certain basic things, sure (e.g. don't keep zombies in your basements, they need to be turned over to disposal to stop the spread of infection), but the whole thing is chaotic and coming apart fast. Even the scientists representing government policy are often shown to be putting out conflicting ideas or even downright idiotic ones for whatever purpose (e.g. feeding the "opposition"). Government grasp over their own people (e.g. police) has weakened considerably with folks in uniform splitting the scene to save their own skin (e.g. the ragtag group of cops in Dawn).

We only start hearing of such strange proposed solutions later on in the movie, when the situation has gotten way worse, and what remains of the government is considering desperate measures to deal with the ever increasing masses of zombies. At the start of the movie, though, the voice of reason is the government. Had the majority of the citizenry complied with the government's mandates instead of giving them more trouble to carry out those plans, the spread of the zombies would have either been stopped or slowed down.

[Neil]

I think for the sake of this thread... I'll remove all the covid and political stuff :)

Apologies if anything was caught in the cleanup that didn't deserve to be.

ps: There is the covid thread to discuss it in there - https://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=24281&page=99

[katholiday]

It reminds me of Stephen King's "The Stand" :shifty: